Morrowind...and ESO+

BadArgonian

Tandor wrote: »

Spidersick wrote: »

Obviously everyone that post comments over here are expressing their own opinion.

Indeed, although some present those comments as if they were indisputable fact.

Not sure if you were following the beginning of this discussion, but all @Spidersick said is "I guess ESO+ is officially for crafting bags for now on." That looked more like an opinion than indisputable fact to me, but again this is just my point of view.

Juhasow

Downloadable content (DLC) is additional content created for a released video game. It is distributed through the Internet by the game's official publisher. Downloadable content can be of several types, ranging from aesthetic outfit changes to a new, extensive storyline, similar to an expansion pack. As such, DLC may add new game modes, objects, levels, challenges or other features to a complete, already released game.

Source : Wikipedia

sevomd69

To all those people feeling slighted by ZOS... I would suggest reading the ToS... don't want to read that wall of text well I'll TL;DR it for you... ZOS can change anything anytime they want and they don't have to tell you why or even when they are making aforementioned changes... also YOU the consumer can choose not to play THEIR game whenever you want without telling them why or when you will stop playing...

I see all these QQing people jobbing the system by subbing then unsubbing just to get maximum bang for their buck, why should a company that has to make money to pay their employees and keep a viable product be held to a different standard?

maxjapank

sevomd69 wrote: »

To all those people feeling slighted by ZOS... I would suggest reading the ToS... don't want to read that wall of text well I'll TL;DR it for you... ZOS can change anything anytime they want and they don't have to tell you why or even when they are making aforementioned changes... also YOU the consumer can choose not to play THEIR game whenever you want without telling them why or when you will stop playing...

I see all these QQing people jobbing the system by subbing then unsubbing just to get maximum bang for their buck, why should a company that has to make money to pay their employees and keep a viable product be held to a different standard?

We have every right to say we will quit subbing and to say why we will quit subbing. We are not quitting the game. And now ZoS has a decision to make, too. Accept that they will lose some money. Or make it more appealing for people to subscribe. I'm fine either way. But I will quit subbing for now. And choose to buy or not buy content as it comes out.

kewl

Been subbed since the beginning. Just purchased all dlc and dropped my sub. Will go back to mules. Maybe I'll resub once or twice a year to craft bag dump. Thanks for saving me some money ZO$.

Xsorus

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I have ESO plus

This is an expansion..not the same as a DLC

What exactly is the difference between an expansion and a DLC other than semantics and ZOS's chronic need to break promises to extract more money from the playerbase?

A Dlc would be something like an extra dungeon for example or a small quest chain.

An expansion would be like a whole damn island with a new class/new pvp area etc ect

To compare... look at DAOC when they added the dragon zones in that game... that would of been a dlc...

Shrouded isles was an expansion pack

Hiero_Glyph

sevomd69 wrote: »

To all those people feeling slighted by ZOS... I would suggest reading the ToS... don't want to read that wall of text well I'll TL;DR it for you... ZOS can change anything anytime they want and they don't have to tell you why or even when they are making aforementioned changes... also YOU the consumer can choose not to play THEIR game whenever you want without telling them why or when you will stop playing...

I see all these QQing people jobbing the system by subbing then unsubbing just to get maximum bang for their buck, why should a company that has to make money to pay their employees and keep a viable product be held to a different standard?

As has been noted, most players spent far more on the game with ESO+ than they will with the upcoming expansion model. ZOS has every right to change the sales model for their game, but the players have every right to stop buying ESO+. In the end, ESO+ was a top seller on most platforms every single month so we'll see how ZOS feels when some of that consistent revenue is decreased. It's their game, but it's our money (and some of us will now have extra to spend elsewhere).

probablyafk

Summary of everything:

1. For Current Subscribers: we now know that your subscription fee pays for a bag and a few time saving benefits. Previously we believed it also covered all content as well but this is now not true - it covers some content and it is, so far, difficult to determine the extent of that. Thus, if you subscribed for the content more than the benefits, you may wish to unsub and just buy what you want to play. Subscription is still attractive but certainly it loses some of it's shine given the Morrowind development.
2. For People Buying the Expac: The expac/chapter/bigDLC costs $40 and many people will be willing to play this. However it seems observably true that this is a high price for, what appears to be, a relatively small amount of new content. This statement is justifiable because a) other DLCs in game were much cheaper (free for subscribers) for what seems to be a not incomparable amount of content and b) other games such as WoW offer massive amounts more content and features when releasing expacs for similar cost. So while some may still wish to purchase it is fair for people to openly question the price.

Answers to whether it's worth subscribing in the future and/or worth paying a high price for what appears to be a small amount of content will be answered over the next five months as more detail becomes available.

All that aside it seems safe to say that this could have an impact on ESO far deeper than just adding some new zones. It fundamentally may change how many subscribers view their relationship with content, and how ESO generates it's income.

Caligamy_ESO

Can't access it, can't use stored crowns that have been paid for...?
Cancelled my ESO+

Thanks for making this decision easier ZOS. This game does not even run well enough to justify this kind of gouging.

BalticBlues

Mic1007 wrote: »

To be fairly honest, I was expecting this.
Their previous model wasn't exactly profitable for ZOS
(which is clearly shown by the fact that they added those cursed Clown Crates)

Where did you hear that ESO is not profitable? I heard they have millions of players and make millions of it. Therefore, I cannot understand why they devaluate ESO+ now and with it the most loyal players.

Vizier

At least with Star Citizen I know what I'm going to get and what the model is. They've been upfront with everything. I know I'll spend more there in the end but that's what happens when dealing with a more honest business. (can't come soon enough.)

ZoS feels too much like a beautiful GF that lies and plays games. Days with her are numbered.

Pops_ND_Irish

They should just make EVERYTHING free, put out gigantic expansions oh sorry DLCs, etc!

Then I will guarantee you the flamers would complain about something because they have to.

xSkullfox

This should explain all:

strebor2095

I think there are multiple groups of confused and angry people over this update

1) People who are new to MMOs and are unused to the whole "I've bought the game, now I need to buy this new expansion" - they are unused to extra content being sold as basically a separate game. (a la Age of Empires, WoW, etc)

2) People who have ESO+ and feel that ZOS are trying to wriggle their way out of ALL DLC will be paid for in a sub, but oh! This is an expac so it's totally not DLC! - Rules lawyering won't make them change their minds, and this is fairly standard for the industry. The Elder Scrolls Online: Morrowind is basically saying "this is the end of ESO+ for Tamriel Unlimited", but you can use your new ESO+ to get all the upcoming stuff - for a year.

3) People who understand that an expac is different to a DLC, but like the people in #2 are confused as to why an ESO+ doesn't guarantee them future content that ISN'T an expac. After all, if somebody got say, a year of ESO+ in January, expecting to get all 4 DLC this year, would feel especially gypped that not only is Q1 DLC free, but after June, ESO+ is only a crafting bag and does not guarantee future DLC because it is not ESO:TU, it is now ESO:Morrowind!

Perhaps ZOS should look at communicating any refund policies, or ability to buy Morrowind with crowns after the initial release date - most people just save crowns for expansions in case they don't want to sub anymore, and since your old sub will be useless without ESO:Morrowind, that is a lot of crowns left lying around.

TL;DR: ESO:Morrowind is basically a new game and expecting ESO+ to work for a year at a time anymore without paying extra is just asking to be upset later on.

silvereyes

strebor2095 wrote: »

your old sub will be useless without ESO:Morrowind

Just to clarify unless anyone is confused...

Matt Firor said:
"All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription"
...
"we'll have a DLC in the first quarter of each year, a Chapter in the second quarter, a dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter, and a DLC in the 4th quarter."

And lest anyone parse too much into that "standard DLC" wording, here's a more direct answer from Gina:

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

MissBizz wrote: »

If someone choose not to buy the expansion... but they do subscribe....

will they still get access to future DLC's?

Yes.

That being said, ESO+ was only really a good deal for DLC for people that didn't own any DLC yet before the gold edition was released, and even then, the value proposition decreased with each month you subbed.

The only players that ESO+ has ever made sense to sub consistently are: a) those who want to support the game; b) those who think the non-DLC perks are worth a sub by themselves; and c) those that use all their crowns in the store and consider the additional $7-9/mo difference in price for the sub worth it for the non-DLC perks.

OGLezard

I have been subbed since early access never dropped it. Do I hate how slow exploit fixes are, bug squashes are and how unwilling they are to ban people for serious issues? Yes! I still enjoy this game immensely.

40 dollars for a digital collectors edition upgrade is worth it to me. That's 3 dollars and some change saved every month for 12 months before the next chapter comes out. Maybe don't buy that bag of doritos or that 12 pack of mountain dew for twelve months and there's your chapter money saved if money is tight.

I also pre ordered the physical collectors edition and will give the game code (base game and expansion) to a buddy who wants to play eso. I will keep the book and statue.

Just my two cents though.

Kronuxx

maxjapank wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

To all those people feeling slighted by ZOS... I would suggest reading the ToS... don't want to read that wall of text well I'll TL;DR it for you... ZOS can change anything anytime they want and they don't have to tell you why or even when they are making aforementioned changes... also YOU the consumer can choose not to play THEIR game whenever you want without telling them why or when you will stop playing...

I see all these QQing people jobbing the system by subbing then unsubbing just to get maximum bang for their buck, why should a company that has to make money to pay their employees and keep a viable product be held to a different standard?

We have every right to say we will quit subbing and to say why we will quit subbing. We are not quitting the game. And now ZoS has a decision to make, too. Accept that they will lose some money. Or make it more appealing for people to subscribe. I'm fine either way. But I will quit subbing for now. And choose to buy or not buy content as it comes out.

How do you know they will lose money? You have charted and documented statistics, perhaps based on a large player base survey to provide enough power to support your claim?

Watch this: Accept that they will make money!

Cherryblossom

I've unsubed as I don't see any value in it anymore, as I don't expect Morrowind to be any different than say Orsinium.

If I'm proved wrong and Morrowind is in fact huge with lots of new game play, truly deserving the name expansion then I may reconsider renewing my sub.

But for now I don't see that ZOS value it, so why should I.

AnviOfVai

I just as excited for this "expansion" as everyone else is, however I stopped subbing along time ago, by choice of my own. I did think at the time Subbing was a great way to get access to the other DLC available in the game and I did think it was worth it for the extra buffs too...however as time went by I had no need for DLC except for imperial city which I paid for separately.

So the price for Morrowind.....Seriously? that amount of money for an expansion? Your just as well better off getting the collectors edition compared to what the standard is up on the store. Your paying at a full game price already. Granted Amazon and other stores have not released their prices yet, and you can't pre-order from them in the UK but I'm still shocked at the price tag of the expansion. (the psn store always seems to up the price tag on everything)

The fact that I play PVP most of the time and I find PVE rather boring it will be an interesting way to get me back into PVE with morrowind as I would like to level a warden, due to my love of using summons in all types of games.

notimetocare

NovaShadow wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

NovaShadow wrote: »

I was hyped, never played Morrowind so I was excited to see what it was about. I liked the trailer and everything they mentioned in the stream, especially the Warden class.

They didn't mention ESO+ in the live stream so I came here to see if there was an FAQ anywhere only to find out I've been supporting the game via a sub for the past 3 ish years on the promise I'd have access to ALL (yes all, that was the ORIGINAL - I see they've since changed the wording to crown store only - promise) new content and yet, this time they're calling Morrowind an 'expansion' not a 'dlc' (yet in my opinion it's practically the same size as Wrothgar and that was FREE with a sub).

This is what is called BAIT AND SWITCH. You promise one thing yet deliver another.

My sub is cancelled, I have no interest in housing anymore. What interest I had in Morrowind is now gone.

All I view it as now is a cash grab from Morrowind fanboys. Release it on the anniversary for extra nostalgia and you can guarantee those fanboys will look past the utter shadiness this 'expansion' is and throw their cash at ZOS.

I feel sorry for every one of you.

Bye, nobody will miss you.

Really, if you unsub and ignore an expansion because the company needs to FUND your game then you will not be missed.

NovaShadow wrote: »

I was hyped, never played Morrowind so I was excited to see what it was about. I liked the trailer and everything they mentioned in the stream, especially the Warden class.

They didn't mention ESO+ in the live stream so I came here to see if there was an FAQ anywhere only to find out I've been supporting the game via a sub for the past 3 ish years on the promise I'd have access to ALL (yes all, that was the ORIGINAL - I see they've since changed the wording to crown store only - promise) new content and yet, this time they're calling Morrowind an 'expansion' not a 'dlc' (yet in my opinion it's practically the same size as Wrothgar and that was FREE with a sub).

This is what is called BAIT AND SWITCH. You promise one thing yet deliver another.

My sub is cancelled, I have no interest in housing anymore. What interest I had in Morrowind is now gone.

All I view it as now is a cash grab from Morrowind fanboys. Release it on the anniversary for extra nostalgia and you can guarantee those fanboys will look past the utter shadiness this 'expansion' is and throw their cash at ZOS.

I feel sorry for every one of you.

Really, the people that call this shady must have never played an MMO. Intelligent people should have little issue with this. This isnt small content, it is massive.

I didn't realise we knew each other personally and you were aware of every single person I know in game, who I talk to, the guilds I'm involved in and who would miss me if I were to leave for good.

My sub has actually lapsed due to work if you really really must know and given the announcement today I don't see the point in renewing it any time soon as ZOS has now changed their position on what content I can and cannot access via subscribing.

I'm sorry, I must've missed the part where ZOS earns money from Subs, Crowns, Base Game purchases & Gold Edition purchases. No, they cannot possibly have any other source of income.

Grow up. You say an intelligent person should have little issue with it. Clearly you haven't read a single thing anyone with a legitimate complaint has said.

Its NOT about the money, its about the deception/lies/promises clearly displayed/advertised/repeated that have been blatantly forgotten about/rewritten/ignored all for more money.

An intelligent person not blinded by shiny collectables that bring back nostalgia can see this for what it is. It is shady. It is deceptive. It feels like a betrayal for those that paid their subscription under the belief that it'd grant them access to ALL future content as was SPECIFIED. Being lied to sucks, even more so when it's done in such a sneaky/underhanded manor.

Wrothgar: 20 hours
Morrowind: 30 hours

I wouldn't call that massive. Large, sure, but not massive. Seems to be a popular word with fanboys to justify their blind hype.

Sneaky and underhanded? It was announced with 5 months until release.

It is all about money, almost ever complaint. All talking about the money and that they "paid" for it.

Not blinded by nostalgia, I understand business enough to see this as perfectly fine. Most games give patches of free content and have expansions every few uears. This is the norm even in f2p. If you didn't expect this you are a total fool.

I stated nobody will miss you because eventually all your ingame friends will move on and forget you ever existed. Because gods forbid a business put out higher quality content with more features and expect people to buy it.

esotoon

katiesmith12341 wrote: »

So the price for Morrowind.....Seriously? that amount of money for an expansion? Your just as well better off getting the collectors edition compared to what the standard is up on the store. Your paying at a full game price already. Granted Amazon and other stores have not released their prices yet, and you can't pre-order from them in the UK but I'm still shocked at the price tag of the expansion. (the psn store always seems to up the price tag on everything)

The price you have posted is for the base game + the Morrowind 'Expansion pack'. There should be a digital version available to buy if you already own the game, that is just the 'Expansion Pack'. I don't have a PS4, but perhaps check PSN to see if it is listed? The PC version is £29.99.

Audigy

maxjapank wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

To all those people feeling slighted by ZOS... I would suggest reading the ToS... don't want to read that wall of text well I'll TL;DR it for you... ZOS can change anything anytime they want and they don't have to tell you why or even when they are making aforementioned changes... also YOU the consumer can choose not to play THEIR game whenever you want without telling them why or when you will stop playing...

I see all these QQing people jobbing the system by subbing then unsubbing just to get maximum bang for their buck, why should a company that has to make money to pay their employees and keep a viable product be held to a different standard?

We have every right to say we will quit subbing and to say why we will quit subbing. We are not quitting the game. And now ZoS has a decision to make, too. Accept that they will lose some money. Or make it more appealing for people to subscribe. I'm fine either way. But I will quit subbing for now. And choose to buy or not buy content as it comes out.

I don´t know any MMO, where Expansion packs are free. OK, Blizzard makes them free, after a year, but on release?

DLC´s should be given for free though and not only be borrowed, but it seems like this is ok for you?

In the end, ESO will sooner or later make DLC´s and expansions free as well, else they will miss out on lots of potential players, as nobody likes to pay 100 bucks, to be where others are now. I expect a Blizzard system in 2018, so if you don´t want to sub or buy it, just wait a year.

Zypheran

It baffles me when so many people get angry and snide at those who voice their complaint about the service they perceive to get for the money they pay. A year's subscription costs (for me anyway) €156. For that money, I was given a fairly clear commitment from ZOS that future additional content would be included. I will save everyone time and say from the outset, yes, I accept this wasn't a contract, yes there are good benefits to ESO+, yes other MMO developers offer poorer value.
But bottom line.... if you pay the money for a subscription and feel you have been cheated somewhat by ZOS, of course you should complain. I really am baffled why so many people feel the need to tell people they shouldn't complain! Don't people realise that threat of backlash from the customer is about the only that keeps the service supplier reasonably straight.
For the record, I personally don't have a maojor issue paying extra ( That's right, EXTRA... I already paid €156 for additional content) money for the Morrowind expansion/DLC.... as long as it has enough content to justify the price! If it is 3 to 4 times the size of Orsinium then yes, I appreciate why it needs to be an additional cost but I would not for a second think I have the right to try shout others down and tell them they should accept what they get and shouldn't complain to ZOS about feeling they aren't getting value for the money have paid

AnviOfVai

esotoon wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

So the price for Morrowind.....Seriously? that amount of money for an expansion? Your just as well better off getting the collectors edition compared to what the standard is up on the store. Your paying at a full game price already. Granted Amazon and other stores have not released their prices yet, and you can't pre-order from them in the UK but I'm still shocked at the price tag of the expansion. (the psn store always seems to up the price tag on everything)

The price you have posted is for the base game + the Morrowind 'Expansion pack'. There should be a digital version available to buy if you already own the game, that is just the 'Expansion Pack'. I don't have a PS4, but perhaps check PSN to see if it is listed? The PC version is £29.99.

this is all that is listed at the moment on the psn store UK wise for me anyway?!

heck if its 29.99 I don't have a problem, Sims 4's expansions and stuff packs are worse.

esotoon

katiesmith12341 wrote: »

this is all that is listed at the moment on the psn store UK wise for me anyway?!

heck if its 29.99 I don't have a problem, Sims 4's expansions and stuff packs are worse.

Looks like it hasn't been put up yet. It seems to be up on the US PSN store though, so hopefully it will be listed on the UK one soon.

maxjapank

Kronuxx wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

sevomd69 wrote: »

To all those people feeling slighted by ZOS... I would suggest reading the ToS... don't want to read that wall of text well I'll TL;DR it for you... ZOS can change anything anytime they want and they don't have to tell you why or even when they are making aforementioned changes... also YOU the consumer can choose not to play THEIR game whenever you want without telling them why or when you will stop playing...

I see all these QQing people jobbing the system by subbing then unsubbing just to get maximum bang for their buck, why should a company that has to make money to pay their employees and keep a viable product be held to a different standard?

We have every right to say we will quit subbing and to say why we will quit subbing. We are not quitting the game. And now ZoS has a decision to make, too. Accept that they will lose some money. Or make it more appealing for people to subscribe. I'm fine either way. But I will quit subbing for now. And choose to buy or not buy content as it comes out.

How do you know they will lose money? You have charted and documented statistics, perhaps based on a large player base survey to provide enough power to support your claim?

Watch this: Accept that they will make money!

Lol, dude. Don't know what point your trying to make. But they will lose my money. So I know that for a fact. And they will lose money from the others in here who are planning to not subscribe anymore.

Whether they make more money in the end or not, I don't really care. Point is they are losing mine. If they don't care about that, then that's fine. I'm not really complaining. Just stating that if they want me to continue subscribing on top of playing for a new "expansion" which in my opinion, should be purchasable from the extra crowns I have spent real money for, then they need to offer something more to me. That's it. It's their choice. I'm not bothered either way.

Cyrediath

I remember devs saying "we want players to go anywhere anytime and we dont want them to see barrier between them and content like oyu have ot pay fee to enter this content" they said eso plus will unlock everything and there will be no payment walls between content and us. Ideas changes. shame.

Cherryblossom

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

You seem to be forgetting it's not Free to those paying monthly for a game and have been promised continual updates to the game.
Whilst I was paying my Sub I had no issue with QoL being free to everyone, I was paying for the convenience of not needing to think about buying the new Zones and Dungeons.

This is no longer the case as I will need to buy a New Zone and may be a dungeon once a year as well as a Sub for something!

For me it simpler to stop the Sub and just use the money I save to buy the additions I want.

Cherryblossom

Xsorus wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

I have ESO plus

This is an expansion..not the same as a DLC

What exactly is the difference between an expansion and a DLC other than semantics and ZOS's chronic need to break promises to extract more money from the playerbase?

A Dlc would be something like an extra dungeon for example or a small quest chain.

An expansion would be like a whole damn island with a new class/new pvp area etc ect

To compare... look at DAOC when they added the dragon zones in that game... that would of been a dlc...

Shrouded isles was an expansion pack

Well done with the exception of a new class you described Orsinium or Imperial city, which I remind you are DLC.

So from this you think an expansion is a new class!

Cously

I'm ok with one Chapter every year, frankly I'd be happy to pay for two Chapters every year. 3 would be pushing my nerves. ESO+ members should get a discount or an exclusive pre-order / purchase bonus item/pet/mount. And loyalty program should make a comeback.