Morrowind...and ESO+

Cherryblossom

Ok WOW's first Expansion included
11 new areas
10 dungeons
2 New Battlegrounds
various updates including Jewelry Crafting

Latest WOW expansion

6 new areas
10 Dungeons
4 Raids
New Class


So ESO first DLC contained
1 New Area
New raid and 2 dungeons

Morrowind contains
1 New Area
New Raid ?#Dungeons
New Class.
Battlegrounds

Tell me am I missing something, can we really call Morrowind an expansion?

Ojustaboo

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

No, people are complaining that they were told that by taking out ESO+, they would never have to pay for additional content, and for many if this wasn't the case, for them the sub isn't worth it. Sure they get crowns etc, but for many, they don't want or need them.

Then there's also loads that don't sub but took advantage of the cheap crown sales to save their crowns to buy the future downloads.

As I've said elsewhere, Zenimax did say things like the following.

---

ESO Live Today Feb 13th 2015

00:16:30

ESO Plus members, while you are a member you have access to the regions, so different dungeons, additional content, you're going to have access to that.

---

It's as simple as that, people are mad because they were told if they subbed they would get one thing, but now it turns out that isn't the case.

While I agree that to me, expansions have always been treated differently (having played mmos for years), I cannot argue with their logic and can fully understand why they are complaining.

And of course, until we know more details, people are also wondering why this classes as an expansion, is it just because it has the word Morrowind in it and Zenimax know the fans will jump at buying it (worked for me), or is it indeed worthy of being called an expansion.

Sanct16

Wish you could get access to Arenas + the new class via ESO+. Don't care much about the quests etc you get with Morrowind as I will never play them anyway.

Fallen_Ray

rollover wrote: »

Since ZOS has taken this new content outside ESO plus I will use my subscription money to instead purchase this "expansion" when available. I have no problem paying for new content and want to support the development of the game.

I do not appreciate the trend ZOS is showing lately of price gouging for new content, the overpriced elk, now bundling together things I don't want with things I do and calling it an "expansion" instead of releasing them as DLCs. If I want a new class, charge me for that. The "new" class and PvP options have nothing to do with Morrowind except that they are finally delivering them concurrently with the new zone(s).

I think it is shady that they want to double-dip on subscribers and expect us to continue our on-going financial support of game development. Pick one model and stick to it, if it is expansions--so be it. But don't offer future content as part of an optional subscription then put content behind a paywall because you bundle it and call it an 'expansion'.

@rollover Blame the marketing department. They are the real devils behind ZOS 's horrible sale's model. And also get ready for a updated EULA, stating differances between DLC (crown store content) and EXPANSIONS (the word explains itself). Because it's coming if it hasn't already, mark my words on this day and time, because it is.

Sanct16

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

Who would have thought...

P3ZZL3

Thought this might help to give people a visual understanding.



The Green ESO+ is where everyone has been and what has been promised.
The Yellow ESO+ is the new, revised version which becomes active on June 6th.
The blues are the present DLC given and the likes of Housing.

The T&C's assure all of the green areas. There is no definition or clarification in the T&C's between different types of content released. It's purely states ALL FUTURE DLC.

MORROWIND IS NOT DLC! We know this. But anything that comes out afterwards IS DLC which by the present terms and conditions entitles all users to access any content added to the "expansion".

As you can see, Morrowind is effectively a paywall - as you can not access the future DLC without it. This IS NOT expressly stated in the T&C's about future expansions or future DLC.

And for those that genuinely think that Bethesda/ZoS will invest time and money to T1 DLC updates that are beyond cosmetic and pointless, is...well...naive.

smacx250

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

Well, my concern is that if they aren't going to be regularly dropping DLCs (and apparently there won't have been any for 3 consecutive quarters up through Morrowind) when they previously had said that they would have them quarterly, and then they will be charging cash and not crowns for expansions that seem to be about equal to 3 DLCs, the expectations regarding supporting their development through subbing vs buying stuff piecemeal is a very different picture now that it was 6 months ago. I do fully understand the benefits of subbing, and some make sense for me, and others don't. Given the new landscape, for the first time since early access I've got real food for thought regarding if subbing continues to make sense for me. I discuss that here not so much to "complain", but help with that decision process, and also to let ZOS know that what they are doing is causing some people to seriously question their choice to sub.

LiquidPony

Flynch wrote: »

olivesforge wrote: »

The difference between DLC and Expansion

It's really incredibly simple. You can log into ESO or Morrowind and play the game, because a base game and expansion have the base game files, so they can run the whole shebang. DLCs, by their nature, you can't. There is no standalone Gold Coast or Orsinium. There is no Thievesguild.exe. There's your difference.

Sorry for truncating your post. See this is the thing that is genuinely confusing to me. I don't think i've ever come across an expansion for a game that hasn't required the base-game.

Think Tribunal, Bloodmoon, WotLK and countless others.

So either Morrowind (the new one) is a standalone (in which case it's a separate game entirely with no connection to the base-game of ESO) and runs entirely independently or it's classified as an expansion (which relies on having the base-game from the get-go)

As a standalone title with no connection to ESO then that's an entirely different subject. And it's also academic as we know it's not disconnected.

So we know it's not a standalone, so that puts it in the DLC/Expansion ballpark.

Which then brings us full circle.

Apologies for the tremendous amount of hyphens.

@Flynch I can solve this conundrum for you. This is an "expansion," and not a "DLC," because ZOS made a financial decision to call it an expansion.

Just my perspective. I work for a SaaS product company. All of our "subscribers" receive all of the updates to our product for free, and even get new features and integrations for free as well ... usually. But sometimes we spin up a new feature and the cost of development far exceeds that of our normal product updates. And the company makes a financial decision to treat those new features differently, and existing customers (under contract or not) must pay if they want access to said feature. And we can do that because our contracts specifically say we can do that (just like the ZOS TOS). And sure, sometimes we lose customers because they're butt-hurt that they don't get everything for free forever. But almost all of our customers are perfectly happy to pay more money for new features as long as th

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Thought this might help to give people a visual understanding.



The Green ESO+ is where everyone has been and what has been promised.
The Yellow ESO+ is the new, revised version which becomes active on June 6th.
The blues are the present DLC given and the likes of Housing.

The T&C's assure all of the green areas. There is no definition or clarification in the T&C's between different types of content released. It's purely states ALL FUTURE DLC.

MORROWIND IS NOT DLC! We know this. But anything that comes out afterwards IS DLC which by the present terms and conditions entitles all users to access any content added to the "expansion".

As you can see, Morrowind is effectively a paywall - as you can not access the future DLC without it. This IS NOT expressly stated in the T&C's about future expansions or future DLC.

And for those that genuinely think that Bethesda/ZoS will invest time and money to T1 DLC updates that are beyond cosmetic and pointless, is...well...naive.

It was stated yesterday that ESO+ subscribers will be able to access future DLC even if they don't own Morrowind. So, we'll see. Hopefully we'll find out today.

rollover

Well, my concern is that if they aren't going to be regularly dropping DLCs (and apparently there won't have been any for 3 consecutive quarters up through Morrowind) when they previously had said that they would have them quarterly, and then they will be charging cash and not crowns for expansions that seem to be about equal to 3 DLCs, the expectations regarding supporting their development through subbing vs buying stuff piecemeal is a very different picture now that it was 6 months ago. I do fully understand the benefits of subbing, and some make sense for me, and others don't. Given the new landscape, for the first time since early access I've got real food for thought regarding if subbing continues to make sense for me. I discuss that here not so much to "complain", but help with that decision process, and also to let ZOS know that what they are doing is causing some people to seriously question their choice to sub.

Indeed, well said--I am not complaining in the least, just want to be sure ZOS understands exactly why I just cancelled my subscription and will instead use those funds to purchase the new content I want to play.

Chilly-McFreeze

smacx250 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

Well, my concern is that if they aren't going to be regularly dropping DLCs (and apparently there won't have been any for 3 consecutive quarters up through Morrowind) when they previously had said that they would have them quarterly, and then they will be charging cash and not crowns for expansions that seem to be about equal to 3 DLCs, the expectations regarding supporting their development through subbing vs buying stuff piecemeal is a very different picture now that it was 6 months ago. I do fully understand the benefits of subbing, and some make sense for me, and others don't. Given the new landscape, for the first time since early access I've got real food for thought regarding if subbing continues to make sense for me. I discuss that here not so much to "complain", but help with that decision process, and also to let ZOS know that what they are doing is causing some people to seriously question their choice to sub.

So to make this clear for me, you don't count 1T and Housing as quartlery DLC because everyone got/will get them for free?

AzuraKin

this is an expansion, not a dlc. you will have to purchase this seperately. just like you had to purchase the original base game.

Elsonso

probablyafk wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I could be wrong. It could all be Marketing Smoke and Mirrors. Bethesda gives what they feel is a fair deal, but as I learned with the Fallout Season Pass, this does not exactly translate into a deal for everyone. Not all of the information is in, and we may not get a clear picture until release (PTS or Live).

I can respect your well thought out reply here and, honestly, I hope you're right because I do like the game and when I go look at some of the screenshots and think about heading back to Morrowind I do get excited.

And I agree, I think this will be significantly bigger than your average DLC. But I find it really hard to imagine ZOS were just were not organised enough in time to announce all the cool things they have planned which provide the amount of content one would expect for a $40+ expansion pack in an AAA MMO.

Your note about chapters is something I find interesting and really it goes to the heart of why there's such backlash on the forums about this today: Having F2P + Subscription models implies a certain type of promise you're making to your players based on their support. The language used in the advertising even encourages that impresion.

But if you want subscribers, who are already giving you money for content, to shell out even more cash then you are going to have to provide very competitive incentives compared to the rest of the market. What we know so far, even with your positive take on things, doesn't come even close to a WoW expac - as a single example.

I've mentioned this elsewhere but the gamble ZOS is making here is probably bigger than it seems to most people now, even with all this turmoil. There is a precedent being set. ESO is now a game with f2p, subscription and an expansion cycle. After this expansion there will, by necessity, be another.

If the expansion isn't amazing then the only think keeping people subscribing is crafting bag because they know you'll just make them pay for the good stuff anyway. I think the outcome of that will be strongly felt in server populations.

So, back to your comment, something like chapter based payment is interesting. It could combine subscription and expansion. But first we have to survive this upcoming potential debacle.

I think that a lot of the concern with Morrowind is that everything will be Chapters, from now on. They did say they did not like the Expansion Model, and I choose to take the view that they still do not like expansions. While there will be more Chapters, several quarterly updates will fill the gap. Those quarterly updates, where they are DLC in the Crown Store, and not 'base game' upgrades, will still be free to ESO Plus members.

In other words, I feel Morrowind is a blip, necessary to the sustenance of the F2P implementation they have chosen, and not a new policy rule.

I am fine with this, so long as there is enough space between Chapters, filled with a high content-to-base-game ratio. On this matter, time will tell, and the results will be subjective. This is not much different than the value proposition of ESO Plus, in the past.

Sandman929

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Ok WOW's first Expansion included
11 new areas
10 dungeons
2 New Battlegrounds
various updates including Jewelry Crafting

Latest WOW expansion

6 new areas
10 Dungeons
4 Raids
New Class


So ESO first DLC contained
1 New Area
New raid and 2 dungeons

Morrowind contains
1 New Area
New Raid ?#Dungeons
New Class.
Battlegrounds

Tell me am I missing something, can we really call Morrowind an expansion?

Sure they can. They just keeping saying things like "expansion" and "new chapter" and a bunch of loyal apologist gamers will follow suit and call it "expansion" and "new chapter", and there you go! It's not a DLC of the exact same scope as previous DLC's, it magically becomes a new and exciting Chapter that can be sold separately as an Expansion.

SGT_Wolfe101st

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

Well, my concern is that if they aren't going to be regularly dropping DLCs (and apparently there won't have been any for 3 consecutive quarters up through Morrowind) when they previously had said that they would have them quarterly, and then they will be charging cash and not crowns for expansions that seem to be about equal to 3 DLCs, the expectations regarding supporting their development through subbing vs buying stuff piecemeal is a very different picture now that it was 6 months ago. I do fully understand the benefits of subbing, and some make sense for me, and others don't. Given the new landscape, for the first time since early access I've got real food for thought regarding if subbing continues to make sense for me. I discuss that here not so much to "complain", but help with that decision process, and also to let ZOS know that what they are doing is causing some people to seriously question their choice to sub.

So to make this clear for me, you don't count 1T and Housing as quartlery DLC because everyone got/will get them for free?

If you pay for a sub that offers X reward or perk and then all people, irrespective of their subscription, get the same perk or reward would you consider that worth the subscription? You subscribe to SI, I get to read all of the same articles, are you getting something for that subscription?

gard

tspecherb14_ESO wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

tspecherb14_ESO wrote: »

Meh. I paid for Wow for a good number of years and still had to pay for expansions, so there is precedent. I personally have no issue with this. There is a distinct marker here as far as DLC versus expansion and ESO: Morrowind meets that threshold.

But we dont want to be like WoW! We are a different kind of MMO!!

Turns out not so much it seems.

The games are very different, but it is still an MMO. What other modes of are there to pay for content? I do think a crown payment method for the xpac should have been added.

As far as markers, there amount/volume/quantity/whatever you want to call it of content is worthy of being called an expansion. ZOS can call it what they want, but it's still an expansion of content significantly more than any previous DLC.

People keep saying there is more content.
Not really. By ZOS own estimate, 30 hours of content. Orsinium was 25 I believe.

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

it would be so much more simple if ZOS would simply charge for housing. Access included to ESO+ subscribers. Purchasable in crown store by subscribers and non-subscribers alike. Same for Morrowind. This would be consistent with what they've promised. And bring more money to the company.

Cancelling my subs now doesn't bother me much, except for losing the craft bag. I've always used my crowns to purchase the DLCs, in case something like this happened and I decided to unsub. As I think I've pointed out before, even though I'll still be playing and buying the expansion, it's going to result in a net loss for ZOS.

Funny thing is if ZOS had just been straight with us as opposed to being tricksy, I'd have probably kept the subs.

Calling Morrowind an expansion as opposed to a DLC would be like me telling the users of my software "That's not a bug. It's an undocumented feature."

Elsonso

Sandman929 wrote: »

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Tell me am I missing something, can we really call Morrowind an expansion?

Sure they can. They just keeping saying things like "expansion" and "new chapter" and a bunch of loyal apologist gamers will follow suit and call it "expansion" and "new chapter", and there you go! It's not a DLC of the exact same scope as previous DLC's, it magically becomes a new and exciting Chapter that can be sold separately as an Expansion.

Pretty much. There are expectations, though, and all we know right now is the hype and the price.

Vvardenfell cannot be some marginal yawn, which worries me due to the fact that this does not hold with how ZOS usually works. They live for the marginal yawn. Expectations were high when it was just a DLC, and calling it a Chapter and charging for it escalates that expectation.

Now it is up to them to deliver. I will give them the benefit of the doubt, although many won't, because I think they get the importance of what they are doing. The question is more whether they follow through with delivery.

SGT_Wolfe101st

lordrichter wrote: »

probablyafk wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

I could be wrong. It could all be Marketing Smoke and Mirrors. Bethesda gives what they feel is a fair deal, but as I learned with the Fallout Season Pass, this does not exactly translate into a deal for everyone. Not all of the information is in, and we may not get a clear picture until release (PTS or Live).

I can respect your well thought out reply here and, honestly, I hope you're right because I do like the game and when I go look at some of the screenshots and think about heading back to Morrowind I do get excited.

And I agree, I think this will be significantly bigger than your average DLC. But I find it really hard to imagine ZOS were just were not organised enough in time to announce all the cool things they have planned which provide the amount of content one would expect for a $40+ expansion pack in an AAA MMO.

Your note about chapters is something I find interesting and really it goes to the heart of why there's such backlash on the forums about this today: Having F2P + Subscription models implies a certain type of promise you're making to your players based on their support. The language used in the advertising even encourages that impresion.

But if you want subscribers, who are already giving you money for content, to shell out even more cash then you are going to have to provide very competitive incentives compared to the rest of the market. What we know so far, even with your positive take on things, doesn't come even close to a WoW expac - as a single example.

I've mentioned this elsewhere but the gamble ZOS is making here is probably bigger than it seems to most people now, even with all this turmoil. There is a precedent being set. ESO is now a game with f2p, subscription and an expansion cycle. After this expansion there will, by necessity, be another.

If the expansion isn't amazing then the only think keeping people subscribing is crafting bag because they know you'll just make them pay for the good stuff anyway. I think the outcome of that will be strongly felt in server populations.

So, back to your comment, something like chapter based payment is interesting. It could combine subscription and expansion. But first we have to survive this upcoming potential debacle.

I think that a lot of the concern with Morrowind is that everything will be Chapters, from now on. They did say they did not like the Expansion Model, and I choose to take the view that they still do not like expansions. While there will be more Chapters, several quarterly updates will fill the gap. Those quarterly updates, where they are DLC in the Crown Store, and not 'base game' upgrades, will still be free to ESO Plus members.

In other words, I feel Morrowind is a blip, necessary to the sustenance of the F2P implementation they have chosen, and not a new policy rule.

I am fine with this, so long as there is enough space between Chapters, filled with a high content-to-base-game ratio. On this matter, time will tell, and the results will be subjective. This is not much different than the value proposition of ESO Plus, in the past.

You may be right, but we don't know and the current path is enough for a lot of people to question the continued support of the game via a subscription. Let's say 10% of players sub, call it $10,000,000 a year from subs, let's say 10% of those are upset enough to stop their subscription, does a net loss of $1,000,000 not have an impact?

SunfireKnight86

I found this which perfectly describes the attitude going on in here.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cQuW3vybBYE

Tandor

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

No, people are complaining that they were told that by taking out ESO+, they would never have to pay for additional content, and for many if this wasn't the case, for them the sub isn't worth it. Sure they get crowns etc, but for many, they don't want or need them.

Then there's also loads that don't sub but took advantage of the cheap crown sales to save their crowns to buy the future downloads.

As I've said elsewhere, Zenimax did say things like the following.

---

ESO Live Today Feb 13th 2015

00:16:30

ESO Plus members, while you are a member you have access to the regions, so different dungeons, additional content, you're going to have access to that.

---

It's as simple as that, people are mad because they were told if they subbed they would get one thing, but now it turns out that isn't the case.

While I agree that to me, expansions have always been treated differently (having played mmos for years), I cannot argue with their logic and can fully understand why they are complaining.

And of course, until we know more details, people are also wondering why this classes as an expansion, is it just because it has the word Morrowind in it and Zenimax know the fans will jump at buying it (worked for me), or is it indeed worthy of being called an expansion.

But my point was that they've also been given free content when they were told that they'd have to pay for all content - they weren't complaining then, were they?

Ojustaboo wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

No, people are complaining that they were told that by taking out ESO+, they would never have to pay for additional content, and for many if this wasn't the case, for them the sub isn't worth it. Sure they get crowns etc, but for many, they don't want or need them.

Then there's also loads that don't sub but took advantage of the cheap crown sales to save their crowns to buy the future downloads.

As I've said elsewhere, Zenimax did say things like the following.

---

ESO Live Today Feb 13th 2015

00:16:30

ESO Plus members, while you are a member you have access to the regions, so different dungeons, additional content, you're going to have access to that.

---

It's as simple as that, people are mad because they were told if they subbed they would get one thing, but now it turns out that isn't the case.

While I agree that to me, expansions have always been treated differently (having played mmos for years), I cannot argue with their logic and can fully understand why they are complaining.

And of course, until we know more details, people are also wondering why this classes as an expansion, is it just because it has the word Morrowind in it and Zenimax know the fans will jump at buying it (worked for me), or is it indeed worthy of being called an expansion.

Oh I understand the point they're making (although I do think on present information that this qualifies as an expansion). My point is that non-subscribers were told they'd have to pay for all content but have actually been getting a lot of it for free - nobody complained then, did they?

smacx250

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

Well, my concern is that if they aren't going to be regularly dropping DLCs (and apparently there won't have been any for 3 consecutive quarters up through Morrowind) when they previously had said that they would have them quarterly, and then they will be charging cash and not crowns for expansions that seem to be about equal to 3 DLCs, the expectations regarding supporting their development through subbing vs buying stuff piecemeal is a very different picture now that it was 6 months ago. I do fully understand the benefits of subbing, and some make sense for me, and others don't. Given the new landscape, for the first time since early access I've got real food for thought regarding if subbing continues to make sense for me. I discuss that here not so much to "complain", but help with that decision process, and also to let ZOS know that what they are doing is causing some people to seriously question their choice to sub.

So to make this clear for me, you don't count 1T and Housing as quartlery DLC because everyone got/will get them for free?

I'm a consumer purchasing a service from a for-profit company, not a donor supporting a charitable organization. In such a scenario, why would I choose to pay "extra" for things that the company would provide to me as part of the original purchase price of the service? So no, from the perspective of subbing in order to use DLCs without needing to buy them, 1T and housing certainly don't "count", as my sub is "worthless" with respect to accessing them.

AzuraKin

you sub for the benefits, these benefits are currently and liable for change as zos sees fits consist of 10% faster research speed, craft bag, access to downloadable content. this does not constitute that any and all new content added must be made available to those who sub. just like if you sub for the game but do not actually pay for the base game, you would not be able to play the base game.

Spidersick

negbert wrote: »

If Morrowind was a dlc then I would get locked out from my Warden characters if my sub lapsed. That just wouldn't work.

No you wouldn't. You just couldn't create a new one.

corrosivechains

a lot of this would be alleviated if they just made it available for crowns, even if it were a couple of months after release. That alone would do much to restore customer faith. It'd still be available to ESO+ members with their monthly crowns(start saving now if you are a sub and haven't been sitting on them), and those of us who prepurchased crowns for such releases.

Crowns cost money, whether you buy them directly or with a sub. You can't earn them in-game like other MMO's do, so it's not an issue of not paying.

Spidersick

Kneighbors wrote: »

How can you unsub when your crafting bag is stuffed with hundred thousands of items? Do you realise you will have to sell or delete everything you collected?

Cool it, as already been said 40$ is nothing for having fun today, and ZOS company is not the worst investment.

Just relax and enjoy, get used to paying fanboys

Yes you can unsub and keep your stuff. Your materials will remain in the craft bag, but you cannot add new materials there.

Serjustin19

mb10 wrote: »

lmao why do ESO+ members who pay a few bucks a month think they're entitled to the world?

Get in line and pay the $40 for the expansion

I paid $64.73 For the Upgrade Collector expansion already.

sadownik

MoTeets wrote: »

They should go back to WoW if its that good !

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

Well, my concern is that if they aren't going to be regularly dropping DLCs (and apparently there won't have been any for 3 consecutive quarters up through Morrowind) when they previously had said that they would have them quarterly, and then they will be charging cash and not crowns for expansions that seem to be about equal to 3 DLCs, the expectations regarding supporting their development through subbing vs buying stuff piecemeal is a very different picture now that it was 6 months ago. I do fully understand the benefits of subbing, and some make sense for me, and others don't. Given the new landscape, for the first time since early access I've got real food for thought regarding if subbing continues to make sense for me. I discuss that here not so much to "complain", but help with that decision process, and also to let ZOS know that what they are doing is causing some people to seriously question their choice to sub.

So to make this clear for me, you don't count 1T and Housing as quartlery DLC because everyone got/will get them for free?

In my opinion you cant count them in due to ZOS changed definition of DLC that is included in sub - crown store only content. Since neither 1t nor Diorama are content bought in crown store - according to ZOS the are not dlcs that benefit sub players.

Chilly-McFreeze

smacx250 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

Well, my concern is that if they aren't going to be regularly dropping DLCs (and apparently there won't have been any for 3 consecutive quarters up through Morrowind) when they previously had said that they would have them quarterly, and then they will be charging cash and not crowns for expansions that seem to be about equal to 3 DLCs, the expectations regarding supporting their development through subbing vs buying stuff piecemeal is a very different picture now that it was 6 months ago. I do fully understand the benefits of subbing, and some make sense for me, and others don't. Given the new landscape, for the first time since early access I've got real food for thought regarding if subbing continues to make sense for me. I discuss that here not so much to "complain", but help with that decision process, and also to let ZOS know that what they are doing is causing some people to seriously question their choice to sub.

So to make this clear for me, you don't count 1T and Housing as quartlery DLC because everyone got/will get them for free?

I'm a consumer purchasing a service from a for-profit company, not a donor supporting a charitable organization. In such a scenario, why would I choose to pay "extra" for things that the company would provide to me as part of the original purchase price of the service? So no, from the perspective of subbing in order to use DLCs without needing to buy them, 1T and housing certainly don't "count", as my sub is "worthless" with respect to accessing them.

Did you get 1T and Homestead or not? Did ESO+ state that DLCs are always pay 2 play? Did you get access to all previous DLCs like IC, Wrothgar, TG, DB, SotH or not? Did you get all the other features of ESO+ like 1500 crowns, costume dye, XP bonus, crafting bag etc?
I guess you can answer with a "yes" to all that questions. I also understand you feel that the sub lost some worth because non-subscribers got 1T and Housing as well. But you still get all of the stuff I wrote above, including quarterly DLCs + subscribtion boni.

Now they added a Chapters/ Expansions beside DLCs that everyone has to pay. But you will still get 3 DLC (instead of 4) a year - that's the one point that changed to the worse from the "old" ESO+ promises, but that promise also changed for the better when they added costume dyeing, nobody raged about that.

However, if you feel like the expansion isn't worth the money, you don't have to get it. If you feel that the subscription became essential worthless because 1500 crowns (that alone is worth 13€, with the 1 month sub costs 13€ as well...), all previous DLC etc ain't gonna cut it for you, you are free to cancel. They gave you the "warning" five months ahead.

Khaos_Bane

So to remain subscribed and to buy chapters I will be paying 200+ a year to play a game? You have to be kidding me.

PsychoROFLit

I know best DLC for Vvardenfell, its called TES III: Morrowind, haha

ZOS screw up all subs, never believe greedy devs, they'll find a way to screw up subs again (next DLC will be available for another sub or something like that, i know)

PsychoROFLit

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

So to remain subscribed and to buy chapters I will be paying 200+ a year to play a game? You have to be kidding me.

You must pay, if you want to play in little location with new class (pay2win) and soon we will pay for lvlups, haha