Morrowind...and ESO+

ryh

ESO Plus is not free... To get ESO Plus you must pay...
ESO Plus DLCs access is not free... To get DLCs access by ESO Plus you must pay...

So... As an ESO Plus member i don't want free access to Morrowind. I want access to Morrowind because i paid for that buying ESO+ sub.

Elsonso

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

Now they added a Chapters/ Expansions beside DLCs that everyone has to pay. But you will still get 3 DLC (instead of 4) a year - that's the one point that changed to the worse from the "old" ESO+ promises, but that promise also changed for the better when they added costume dyeing, nobody raged about that.

However, if you feel like the expansion isn't worth the money, you don't have to get it. If you feel that the subscription became essential worthless because 1500 crowns (that alone is worth 13€, with the 1 month sub costs 13€ as well...), all previous DLC etc ain't gonna cut it for you, you are free to cancel. They gave you the "warning" five months ahead.

Personally, I think that Morrowind will be worth the money. As a matter of fact, it may be the ONLY content coming out before 2Q 2018 that I care about.

I certainly have no use for Hist (3Q16) or Nord (3Q17). Whatever they roll out in 4Q will probably be 2000-3000 crowns, and if it is another Thieves Guild or Dark Brotherhood, then one month of ESO Plus will be all it takes, then no looking back.

The way I figure it, if I cancel my ESO Plus, I can can just go from Chapter to Chapter and pick up ESO Plus for a month, every so often, if I need to do any DLC content. Seems to me that they have changed the focus of the game to be Chapters, and that looks like an excellent place to focus my attention.

smacx250

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

Chilly-McFreeze wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

Tandor wrote: »

So people are complaining that all additional downloadable content is supposed to be free to subscribers and paid for by non-subscribers, while Morrowind is going to be paid for by everyone including subscribers. So where were all the complainers when the One Tamriel/Dueling downloadable content was given free to everyone including non-subscribers, or when it was announced that the Homestead downloadable content would be given free to everyone including non-subscribers?

I guess people only complain when a change means they have to spend money, not when a change means they get something for free!

Well, my concern is that if they aren't going to be regularly dropping DLCs (and apparently there won't have been any for 3 consecutive quarters up through Morrowind) when they previously had said that they would have them quarterly, and then they will be charging cash and not crowns for expansions that seem to be about equal to 3 DLCs, the expectations regarding supporting their development through subbing vs buying stuff piecemeal is a very different picture now that it was 6 months ago. I do fully understand the benefits of subbing, and some make sense for me, and others don't. Given the new landscape, for the first time since early access I've got real food for thought regarding if subbing continues to make sense for me. I discuss that here not so much to "complain", but help with that decision process, and also to let ZOS know that what they are doing is causing some people to seriously question their choice to sub.

So to make this clear for me, you don't count 1T and Housing as quartlery DLC because everyone got/will get them for free?

I'm a consumer purchasing a service from a for-profit company, not a donor supporting a charitable organization. In such a scenario, why would I choose to pay "extra" for things that the company would provide to me as part of the original purchase price of the service? So no, from the perspective of subbing in order to use DLCs without needing to buy them, 1T and housing certainly don't "count", as my sub is "worthless" with respect to accessing them.

Did you get 1T and Homestead or not? Did ESO+ state that DLCs are always pay 2 play? Did you get access to all previous DLCs like IC, Wrothgar, TG, DB, SotH or not? Did you get all the other features of ESO+ like 1500 crowns, costume dye, XP bonus, crafting bag etc?
I guess you can answer with a "yes" to all that questions. I also understand you feel that the sub lost some worth because non-subscribers got 1T and Housing as well. But you still get all of the stuff I wrote above, including quarterly DLCs + subscribtion boni.

Now they added a Chapters/ Expansions beside DLCs that everyone has to pay. But you will still get 3 DLC (instead of 4) a year - that's the one point that changed to the worse from the "old" ESO+ promises, but that promise also changed for the better when they added costume dyeing, nobody raged about that.

However, if you feel like the expansion isn't worth the money, you don't have to get it. If you feel that the subscription became essential worthless because 1500 crowns (that alone is worth 13€, with the 1 month sub costs 13€ as well...), all previous DLC etc ain't gonna cut it for you, you are free to cancel. They gave you the "warning" five months ahead.

I totally think that the expansion is worth the money - that was never the question. Also, 1T and homestead are not "DLCs" - they are "base game patches". The question was if the events of the last two quarters and the next quarter would lead me to decide to drop my sub. The new information posted today (that you alluded to) does help make my decision (a plus towards staying subbed) - assuming "DLC" doesn't actually mean "base game patch". If so, each year ESO+ should cover two small/medium content DLCs, a dungeon DLC, the various "perks" (which are ok, but not worth it on their own), and crowns (which so far, I mostly don't use). The large content will be a chapter for $$$.

desciviib14_ESO

Been away for a few months but have always kept my sub for crowns at least. Just got an email for new content....looks cool....wait.....WTF?!? I stuck around through some BS on their part but they found a way to force me. Thank You and G'Night! Sub over and out!

bunnytrix

It is a blatant cash grab trading on people's love of Morrowind.

"We don't like to call it an expansion."
No sh** Sherlock, you don't like to call it an expansion because it's not an expansion. An expansion implies lots of new zones,dungeons, tons of new content. It's a DLC that your marketing department has decided to call a new "chapter" to be able to charge the price of a full game for it, and to avoid giving it for free to those who pay a subscription.

One zone roughly the size of Wrothgar, a new class and a couple of battlegrounds ? For 40 bucks? Haha no thanks. I'll pay for a real expansion for another game that will give me 100s of hours of play for less than the price of your new "chapter."

Stanelis

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Ok WOW's first Expansion included
11 new areas
10 dungeons
2 New Battlegrounds
various updates including Jewelry Crafting

Latest WOW expansion

6 new areas
10 Dungeons
4 Raids
New Class


So ESO first DLC contained
1 New Area
New raid and 2 dungeons

Morrowind contains
1 New Area
New Raid ?#Dungeons
New Class.
Battlegrounds

Tell me am I missing something, can we really call Morrowind an expansion?

I certainly hope more things will be included in morrowind but I m not holding my breath. If anything it ll come later as a "DLC".

Ashtaris

I was really disappointed they didn't include any new 4-man group dungeons with Morrowind. Sure, they have a new trial, but based on past experience, Vet mode will only be attainable by the elite .000001% of the ESO population.

cyclonus11

It's an expansion, not DLC.

nimander99

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

An ESO Plus membership will not grant you access to The Elder Scroll Online: Morrowind content. As this is an entirely new Chapter of ESO, you'll need to purchase one of the five editions. If you already own ESO, though, you can purchase the Morrowind Upgrade or the Morrowind Collector's Edition Upgrade directly from online stores (The Elder Scrolls Online Store, Steam Store, Xbox Store, or PlayStation Store).

Doesn't matter, Ill happily pay for content like this.

Are we there yet?

xeNNNNN

Ashtaris wrote: »

I was really disappointed they didn't include any new 4-man group dungeons with Morrowind. Sure, they have a new trial, but based on past experience, Vet mode will only be attainable by the elite .000001% of the ESO population.

one would hope that they at least learned from their past mistakes concerning vMoL.

Flynch

LiquidPony wrote: »

Flynch wrote: »

olivesforge wrote: »

The difference between DLC and Expansion

It's really incredibly simple. You can log into ESO or Morrowind and play the game, because a base game and expansion have the base game files, so they can run the whole shebang. DLCs, by their nature, you can't. There is no standalone Gold Coast or Orsinium. There is no Thievesguild.exe. There's your difference.

Sorry for truncating your post. See this is the thing that is genuinely confusing to me. I don't think i've ever come across an expansion for a game that hasn't required the base-game.

Think Tribunal, Bloodmoon, WotLK and countless others.

So either Morrowind (the new one) is a standalone (in which case it's a separate game entirely with no connection to the base-game of ESO) and runs entirely independently or it's classified as an expansion (which relies on having the base-game from the get-go)

As a standalone title with no connection to ESO then that's an entirely different subject. And it's also academic as we know it's not disconnected.

So we know it's not a standalone, so that puts it in the DLC/Expansion ballpark.

Which then brings us full circle.

Apologies for the tremendous amount of hyphens.

@Flynch I can solve this conundrum for you. This is an "expansion," and not a "DLC," because ZOS made a financial decision to call it an expansion.

Just my perspective. I work for a SaaS product company. All of our "subscribers" receive all of the updates to our product for free, and even get new features and integrations for free as well ... usually. But sometimes we spin up a new feature and the cost of development far exceeds that of our normal product updates. And the company makes a financial decision to treat those new features differently, and existing customers (under contract or not) must pay if they want access to said feature. And we can do that because our contracts specifically say we can do that (just like the ZOS TOS). And sure, sometimes we lose customers because they're butt-hurt that they don't get everything for free forever. But almost all of our customers are perfectly happy to pay more money for new features as long as th

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Thought this might help to give people a visual understanding.



The Green ESO+ is where everyone has been and what has been promised.
The Yellow ESO+ is the new, revised version which becomes active on June 6th.
The blues are the present DLC given and the likes of Housing.

The T&C's assure all of the green areas. There is no definition or clarification in the T&C's between different types of content released. It's purely states ALL FUTURE DLC.

MORROWIND IS NOT DLC! We know this. But anything that comes out afterwards IS DLC which by the present terms and conditions entitles all users to access any content added to the "expansion".

As you can see, Morrowind is effectively a paywall - as you can not access the future DLC without it. This IS NOT expressly stated in the T&C's about future expansions or future DLC.

And for those that genuinely think that Bethesda/ZoS will invest time and money to T1 DLC updates that are beyond cosmetic and pointless, is...well...naive.

It was stated yesterday that ESO+ subscribers will be able to access future DLC even if they don't own Morrowind. So, we'll see. Hopefully we'll find out today.

Aye thanks for taking the time to reply. Personally i've no real horse in this race, just intrigued by the level of ambiguity at the moment. In theory any DLC could be branded as an Expansion if it's entirely dependant on the company's financial wishes. I suppose that's sort of what made me raise my eyebrows.

Maikon

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Seems absurd to not give access to people with a sub. If they don't, that would mean 3 straight quarters where the people with subs did not get access to a new paid DLC. That would basically mean that people are just paying for a crafting bag. $15 * 9 months for a crafting bag. $135 in less than a year for a crafting bag.

What are you talking about? I'm subbed and I've gotten access to ALL DLC content thus far with my membership. Stop talking out of your ass.

Spidersick

Maikon wrote: »

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Seems absurd to not give access to people with a sub. If they don't, that would mean 3 straight quarters where the people with subs did not get access to a new paid DLC. That would basically mean that people are just paying for a crafting bag. $15 * 9 months for a crafting bag. $135 in less than a year for a crafting bag.

What are you talking about? I'm subbed and I've gotten access to ALL DLC content thus far with my membership. Stop talking out of your ass.

I understood he meant is that we will have 3 quarters without a new DLC, since the last one (Shadow of the Hist) was released last August.

FlaviusVoyage

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

Spidersick

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

I guess ESO+ is officially for crafting bags for now on.

Hiero_Glyph

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

So much wasted effort on calling an expansion something else.

Linaleah

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Myrrah wrote: »

I'll just repeat what i said in the other thread since i'm baffled by this attitude: no other high profile mmo releases expansions for free to subscribers. They release content patches for free but not expansions.

False, as has already been mentioned.

So am not sure why anyone here would expect it to be free for subscribers?

Because that's what they said the model would be when I decided to pay more money for what others chose to get for free.

Spidersick wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

I guess ESO+ is officially for crafting bags for now on.

so 3 new DLC's per year (2 story/1 dungeon based) as well as all the other perks that include, but are not limited to $15 worth of crowns a month.. do not count?

I do love how you conveniently excluded this part

Because we will be regularly introducing Chapters to ESO, we are going to make a small revision to our content delivery cadence, starting this year. We will continue to ship quarterly updates to the game – each with a base patch that has all the balance, quality of life, and bug fixes that you have come to expect. Additionally, we'll have a DLC in the first quarter of each year, a Chapter in the second quarter, a dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter, and a DLC in the 4th quarter

as well as this part

This year will feature four major events:

Homestead, our player housing DLC, in February
ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter

along with this part

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription

it was also confirmed that these DLC's are not dependent on ownership of the self contained chapters.

but sure.. lets ignore all that.

P.S. before "homestead is free!" gets brought up.. ESO plus members get double the decoration limit. it may not matter to you, but given that each little candle stick and a mug on a table counts as separate decoration? it matters to me

Spidersick

Linaleah wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Myrrah wrote: »

I'll just repeat what i said in the other thread since i'm baffled by this attitude: no other high profile mmo releases expansions for free to subscribers. They release content patches for free but not expansions.

False, as has already been mentioned.

So am not sure why anyone here would expect it to be free for subscribers?

Because that's what they said the model would be when I decided to pay more money for what others chose to get for free.

Spidersick wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

I guess ESO+ is officially for crafting bags for now on.

so 3 new DLC's per year (2 story/1 dungeon based) as well as all the other perks that include, but are not limited to $15 worth of crowns a month.. do not count?

I do love how you conveniently excluded this part

Because we will be regularly introducing Chapters to ESO, we are going to make a small revision to our content delivery cadence, starting this year. We will continue to ship quarterly updates to the game – each with a base patch that has all the balance, quality of life, and bug fixes that you have come to expect. Additionally, we'll have a DLC in the first quarter of each year, a Chapter in the second quarter, a dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter, and a DLC in the 4th quarter

as well as this part

This year will feature four major events:

Homestead, our player housing DLC, in February
ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter

along with this part

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription

it was also confirmed that these DLC's are not dependent on ownership of the self contained chapters.

but sure.. lets ignore all that.

P.S. before "homestead is free!" gets brought up.. ESO plus members get double the decoration limit. it may not matter to you, but given that each little candle stick and a mug on a table counts as separate decoration? it matters to me

Thank you for the "love" part. I merely quote another link and responded that ESO+ is merely for the crafting bags now. I did not conveniently excluded anything. I don't care about decoration or housing, so if you think it is worthy, good for you. For me it is worthless.

And before you can be sarcastic to the author of the quote, I want to say that I understood his/her point of view. The highlighted quote has to do with the explanation of "expansion", and the fact that every year we will have to pay for new content. I got that. The subscription will give you some crumbs per year. That is my opinion.

radioman0367b14_ESO

Malamar1229 wrote: »

Have any of you ever played MMOs before?
Do you not recall the days of EverQuest paying 14.99 a month and then paying for expacs as they were released?

Pfff....millenials

If you love the game much, then start supporting its costs.

Expacs should have a cost.

But with Everquest AND Everquest 2, when you purchased the newest expansion, it gave you access to all previous expansions at no additional cost.
Also, as time went on, the eq1 expansions got smaller and smaller and smaller, yet no change to the cost.

old_mufasa

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

An ESO Plus membership will not grant you access to The Elder Scroll Online: Morrowind content. As this is an entirely new Chapter of ESO, you'll need to purchase one of the five editions. If you already own ESO, though, you can purchase the Morrowind Upgrade or the Morrowind Collector's Edition Upgrade directly from online stores (The Elder Scrolls Online Store, Steam Store, Xbox Store, or PlayStation Store).

Okay... I've been expecting this
But... we were promised 4 DLC (or "major updates") / year ... are we still getting a DLC or a major update in Q2/2017, separate from "Morrowind" and included with ESO+ or purchasable in crowns - or even free, like Homestead ?

Good questions. We'll be getting into this more tomorrow - stay tuned for an article on our website that should give some insight.

So what insight did we get today?

That we are in fact not getting 4 dlc's as a ESO plus member this year? was that the insight?

Spidersick

old_mufasa wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

An ESO Plus membership will not grant you access to The Elder Scroll Online: Morrowind content. As this is an entirely new Chapter of ESO, you'll need to purchase one of the five editions. If you already own ESO, though, you can purchase the Morrowind Upgrade or the Morrowind Collector's Edition Upgrade directly from online stores (The Elder Scrolls Online Store, Steam Store, Xbox Store, or PlayStation Store).

Okay... I've been expecting this
But... we were promised 4 DLC (or "major updates") / year ... are we still getting a DLC or a major update in Q2/2017, separate from "Morrowind" and included with ESO+ or purchasable in crowns - or even free, like Homestead ?

Good questions. We'll be getting into this more tomorrow - stay tuned for an article on our website that should give some insight.

So what insight did we get today?

That we are in fact not getting 4 dlc's as a ESO plus member this year? was that the insight?

The link is below.

"This year will feature four major events:

Homestead, our player housing DLC, in February
ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter"


http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

radioman0367b14_ESO

The core issue that most subscribers have here is that when eso+ was first introduced, we were not told that "expansions" were not included.
We were told that all future dlc would be available, while you subscribed.
If I am wrong and it was mentioned, someone show proof, please.

If it was, we have no leg to stand on, but if it wasn't, it sounds like zenimax changed their business model mid stream and this is not a good way to handle things.

Spidersick

radioman0367b14_ESO wrote: »

The core issue that most subscribers have here is that when eso+ was first introduced, we were not told that "expansions" were not included.
We were told that all future dlc would be available, while you subscribed.
If I am wrong and it was mentioned, someone show proof, please.

If it was, we have no leg to stand on, but if it wasn't, it sounds like zenimax changed their business model mid stream and this is not a good way to handle things.

Completely agree.

Hiero_Glyph

radioman0367b14_ESO wrote: »

The core issue that most subscribers have here is that when eso+ was first introduced, we were not told that "expansions" were not included.
We were told that all future dlc would be available, while you subscribed.
If I am wrong and it was mentioned, someone show proof, please.

If it was, we have no leg to stand on, but if it wasn't, it sounds like zenimax changed their business model mid stream and this is not a good way to handle things.

Not my quote but here you go:

ESO Live Today Feb 13th 2015

00:16:30

ESO Plus members, while you are a member you have access to the regions, so different dungeons, additional content, you're going to have access to that.

Linaleah

Spidersick wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Myrrah wrote: »

I'll just repeat what i said in the other thread since i'm baffled by this attitude: no other high profile mmo releases expansions for free to subscribers. They release content patches for free but not expansions.

False, as has already been mentioned.

So am not sure why anyone here would expect it to be free for subscribers?

Because that's what they said the model would be when I decided to pay more money for what others chose to get for free.

Spidersick wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

I guess ESO+ is officially for crafting bags for now on.

so 3 new DLC's per year (2 story/1 dungeon based) as well as all the other perks that include, but are not limited to $15 worth of crowns a month.. do not count?

I do love how you conveniently excluded this part

Because we will be regularly introducing Chapters to ESO, we are going to make a small revision to our content delivery cadence, starting this year. We will continue to ship quarterly updates to the game – each with a base patch that has all the balance, quality of life, and bug fixes that you have come to expect. Additionally, we'll have a DLC in the first quarter of each year, a Chapter in the second quarter, a dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter, and a DLC in the 4th quarter

as well as this part

This year will feature four major events:

Homestead, our player housing DLC, in February
ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter

along with this part

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription

it was also confirmed that these DLC's are not dependent on ownership of the self contained chapters.

but sure.. lets ignore all that.

P.S. before "homestead is free!" gets brought up.. ESO plus members get double the decoration limit. it may not matter to you, but given that each little candle stick and a mug on a table counts as separate decoration? it matters to me

Thank you for the "love" part. I merely quote another link and responded that ESO+ is merely for the crafting bags now. I did not conveniently excluded anything. I don't care about decoration or housing, so if you think it is worthy, good for you. For me it is worthless.

And before you can be sarcastic to the author of the quote, I want to say that I understood his/her point of view. The highlighted quote has to do with the explanation of "expansion", and the fact that every year we will have to pay for new content. I got that. The subscription will give you some crumbs per year. That is my opinion.

by saying that ESO is only good for crafting bags, you DID in fact exclude all that other stuff it covers. you know... the yearly DLC's etc. and I have to admire how you stick with that line, by calling 3 DLC's plus all the usual perks - crumbs.

but hey.. you don't actualy have to subscribe! you can just buy those crumbs piecemeal if you wanted. the main thing that is different is that once a year we are going to get much larger content update than they originally planned for. larger content updates cost more money - hence separate charges. but.. and there's the best part. its optional! unlike expansion in games where level increases? you don't actualy have to buy it to stay on par! sigh. meh.

Spidersick

Linaleah wrote: »

Spidersick wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Myrrah wrote: »

I'll just repeat what i said in the other thread since i'm baffled by this attitude: no other high profile mmo releases expansions for free to subscribers. They release content patches for free but not expansions.

False, as has already been mentioned.

So am not sure why anyone here would expect it to be free for subscribers?

Because that's what they said the model would be when I decided to pay more money for what others chose to get for free.

Spidersick wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

I guess ESO+ is officially for crafting bags for now on.

so 3 new DLC's per year (2 story/1 dungeon based) as well as all the other perks that include, but are not limited to $15 worth of crowns a month.. do not count?

I do love how you conveniently excluded this part

Because we will be regularly introducing Chapters to ESO, we are going to make a small revision to our content delivery cadence, starting this year. We will continue to ship quarterly updates to the game – each with a base patch that has all the balance, quality of life, and bug fixes that you have come to expect. Additionally, we'll have a DLC in the first quarter of each year, a Chapter in the second quarter, a dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter, and a DLC in the 4th quarter

as well as this part

This year will feature four major events:

Homestead, our player housing DLC, in February
ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter

along with this part

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription

it was also confirmed that these DLC's are not dependent on ownership of the self contained chapters.

but sure.. lets ignore all that.

P.S. before "homestead is free!" gets brought up.. ESO plus members get double the decoration limit. it may not matter to you, but given that each little candle stick and a mug on a table counts as separate decoration? it matters to me

Thank you for the "love" part. I merely quote another link and responded that ESO+ is merely for the crafting bags now. I did not conveniently excluded anything. I don't care about decoration or housing, so if you think it is worthy, good for you. For me it is worthless.

And before you can be sarcastic to the author of the quote, I want to say that I understood his/her point of view. The highlighted quote has to do with the explanation of "expansion", and the fact that every year we will have to pay for new content. I got that. The subscription will give you some crumbs per year. That is my opinion.

by saying that ESO is only good for crafting bags, you DID in fact exclude all that other stuff it covers. you know... the yearly DLC's etc. and I have to admire how you stick with that line, by calling 3 DLC's plus all the usual perks - crumbs.

but hey.. you don't actualy have to subscribe! you can just buy those crumbs piecemeal if you wanted. the main thing that is different is that once a year we are going to get much larger content update than they originally planned for. larger content updates cost more money - hence separate charges. but.. and there's the best part. its optional! unlike expansion in games where level increases? you don't actualy have to buy it to stay on par! sigh. meh.

Oh, don't worry about giving advice. I know exactly what to do.

When a dungeon or a tiny story line comes (CRUMBS) I will decide if it is worthy of my money or not. I am perfectly happy with my plan. Thank you very much.


EDIT:

And by the way Homestead (one of the 3 DLCs) will be available to everyone, not just ESO+ members.

Maikon

The difference between DLC and Expansion

DLC = Places the emphasis on smaller, individual extra pieces of content. IE: new gear or quests.

Expansion = Uses framework of the base game to pursue new gameplay or narrative ideas. IE: NEW CLASS.

Expansions have always been a separate purchase, and always will be.

Linaleah

Spidersick wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

Spidersick wrote: »

Linaleah wrote: »

MasterSpatula wrote: »

Myrrah wrote: »

I'll just repeat what i said in the other thread since i'm baffled by this attitude: no other high profile mmo releases expansions for free to subscribers. They release content patches for free but not expansions.

False, as has already been mentioned.

So am not sure why anyone here would expect it to be free for subscribers?

Because that's what they said the model would be when I decided to pay more money for what others chose to get for free.

Spidersick wrote: »

FlaviusVoyage wrote: »

Check out the "Welcome to 2017" Announcement:

"In the past, we've released four major updates per year, most with an associated DLC. This has produced great DLC like Orsinium, Thieves Guild, and Dark Brotherhood for players in a regular cadence, and has been the perfect way to update the game with larger changes like One Tamriel. This cadence is perfect for smaller additions, but we've found that this approach is so aggressive that it hamstrings us a bit when it comes to introducing updates larger than DLC – that is, updates that include new content as well as features like system changes, new abilities, and new classes. This is why we are evolving to deliver some updates as “Chapters," with the target of having one Chapter per year.

In any other game of this type, these would be called “expansions" – but ESO is a game unlike any other. Because ESO is not level-based, Chapters don't fit the general definition of an “expansion," which typically, in MMO-speak, means it is aimed only at existing (and usually high level) players. Chapters in ESO are different. Each ESO Chapter will feature a self-contained story and zone that can be experienced by itself without needing to travel out to the main game. Our content is never level-gated, which means you can play Chapters with an existing character, or a completely new one."

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2017/02/01/welcome-to-2017

I guess ESO+ is officially for crafting bags for now on.

so 3 new DLC's per year (2 story/1 dungeon based) as well as all the other perks that include, but are not limited to $15 worth of crowns a month.. do not count?

I do love how you conveniently excluded this part

Because we will be regularly introducing Chapters to ESO, we are going to make a small revision to our content delivery cadence, starting this year. We will continue to ship quarterly updates to the game – each with a base patch that has all the balance, quality of life, and bug fixes that you have come to expect. Additionally, we'll have a DLC in the first quarter of each year, a Chapter in the second quarter, a dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter, and a DLC in the 4th quarter

as well as this part

This year will feature four major events:

Homestead, our player housing DLC, in February
ESO: Morrowind, our first Chapter release, in June
A dungeon-based DLC in the third quarter
A content-based DLC in the fourth quarter

along with this part

All standard DLC will still be purchased from the Crown Store or be available to ESO Plus members as part of the subscription

it was also confirmed that these DLC's are not dependent on ownership of the self contained chapters.

but sure.. lets ignore all that.

P.S. before "homestead is free!" gets brought up.. ESO plus members get double the decoration limit. it may not matter to you, but given that each little candle stick and a mug on a table counts as separate decoration? it matters to me

Thank you for the "love" part. I merely quote another link and responded that ESO+ is merely for the crafting bags now. I did not conveniently excluded anything. I don't care about decoration or housing, so if you think it is worthy, good for you. For me it is worthless.

And before you can be sarcastic to the author of the quote, I want to say that I understood his/her point of view. The highlighted quote has to do with the explanation of "expansion", and the fact that every year we will have to pay for new content. I got that. The subscription will give you some crumbs per year. That is my opinion.

by saying that ESO is only good for crafting bags, you DID in fact exclude all that other stuff it covers. you know... the yearly DLC's etc. and I have to admire how you stick with that line, by calling 3 DLC's plus all the usual perks - crumbs.

but hey.. you don't actualy have to subscribe! you can just buy those crumbs piecemeal if you wanted. the main thing that is different is that once a year we are going to get much larger content update than they originally planned for. larger content updates cost more money - hence separate charges. but.. and there's the best part. its optional! unlike expansion in games where level increases? you don't actualy have to buy it to stay on par! sigh. meh.

Oh, don't worry about giving advice. I know exactly what to do.

When a dungeon or a tiny story line comes (CRUMBS) I will decide if it is worthy of my money or not. I am perfectly happy with my plan. Thank you very much.


EDIT:

And by the way Homestead (one of the 3 DLCs) will be available to everyone, not just ESO+ members.

here's another quote you seem to have missed

P.S. before "homestead is free!" gets brought up.. ESO plus members get double the decoration limit. it may not matter to you, but given that each little candle stick and a mug on a table counts as separate decoration? it matters to me

and deciding whether each individual piece of content is worth the money is exactly the point. all I'm pointing out that your assertion that ESO plus is only good for crafting bag now? is flat out wrong and disingenuous.

NewBlacksmurf

P3ZZL3 wrote: »

Thought this might help to give people a visual understanding.



The Green ESO+ is where everyone has been and what has been promised.
The Yellow ESO+ is the new, revised version which becomes active on June 6th.
The blues are the present DLC given and the likes of Housing.

The T&C's assure all of the green areas. There is no definition or clarification in the T&C's between different types of content released. It's purely states ALL FUTURE DLC.

MORROWIND IS NOT DLC! We know this. But anything that comes out afterwards IS DLC which by the present terms and conditions entitles all users to access any content added to the "expansion".

As you can see, Morrowind is effectively a paywall - as you can not access the future DLC without it. This IS NOT expressly stated in the T&C's about future expansions or future DLC.

And for those that genuinely think that Bethesda/ZoS will invest time and money to T1 DLC updates that are beyond cosmetic and pointless, is...well...naive.

interesting graphic but this explains your comments very well.

Not sure I'd hang my hat on it all saying DLC wont come to ESO outside of Morrowind but this makes it very clear what some should expect going forward in some ways or parts.

kyle.wilson

Cherryblossom wrote: »

Ok WOW's first Expansion included
11 new areas
10 dungeons
2 New Battlegrounds
various updates including Jewelry Crafting

Latest WOW expansion

6 new areas
10 Dungeons
4 Raids
New Class


So ESO first DLC contained
1 New Area
New raid and 2 dungeons

Morrowind contains
1 New Area
New Raid ?#Dungeons
New Class.
Battlegrounds

Tell me am I missing something, can we really call Morrowind an expansion?

It's not an expansion, it's a "chapter"