PTS Feedback Thread for Frost Staff Tanking

Mojmir

Sandman929 wrote: »

I think the majority of the feedback so far on frost staff tanking can be summed up in one word, and maybe we could all get on board if we got a clear, detailed description to answer the following feedback:

Why?

Wrobel being wrobel

lucky_Sage

it is why would you do this. their are a lot of people who want to be a frost mage dps and when spellcrafting or a new skill is added to make possible now its not even with frost abilities added cause some how a destruction staff is a defensive weapon frost staff is a more utility than others likle roots and snares not aoe like lighting or raw single target dmg like fire

Stalwart385

I'm sure this was mentioned, but just in case. Blocking with the Frost Staff is stopping my stam regen not mana regen on PTS. Is this a bug or did I miss a change?

dsalter

still no changes... we seriously need to tweak it ZoS otherwise it'll be a full nerf to anyone who wants to use frost staff as an actual build rather than a back bar "free blocking" for stamina users.

heavy attack taunt is terrible and contradicts the idea of tanking as well as overall utlity and defences are seriously crippled compaired to an actual tank set.

add the shield on heavy attack and a weaker snare on chilled back in, give armor = to 1/3 of a full 7 heavy armor+shield as a passive and put the taunt on a frostshock.

Personofsecrets

@ZOS_RichLambert

Thank you for fixing the swapping bar issue that caused resource pools to drop.

It was a really confusing mechanic for many players and just didn't offer much.

I'm crossing my fingers for the next changes to be removing the inability to block frames from bar swapping and, especially, roll dodge.

CubanRay

No love for stamina and tanks
Let me hit the agree button so I can agree to myself.

Dark_Aether

Brace yourserlves...

Baconlad

@lucky_Sage that is a great point...the NAME OF THE SKILLINE says all that you need to know...DESTRUCTION...implying pain and DESTRUCTION dealt to ur enemies. They are turning the frost staff into a tanking weapon, and while I understand that the devs played WoW and like the idea of bringing arthas to tamriel...but this is not the way. The way to do frost tanking would be to finally add the missing skill lines to a fifth class, with cold tanking line, necro/ cold conjuration summoning line, and some other random line they think of.

There's only one defensive staff...the resto staff, and one stamina defensive weapon, sword and shield. They could give the resto staff all these passives to semi tank. Magic tanking is absolutely fun and possible, I do it alll the time on my templar, using a sword and shield. I know mag DK do it as well, and I know mag NB do it also. Sorcs used to do it, and I'm sure they still could. But we all use sword and shield, heavy armor isn't even a neccessity. Now trials are a different story, but this frost staff change I don't think was supposed to be a trials tanking thing anyway. They could add extra passive to unlock in sword and shield line to encourage magic tanking if that's the goal...leave frosty alone

SanTii.92

Ajaxduo wrote: »

Although you have a conflicted community atm, you have those who enjoy the utility and ice dps variants for both PvE and PvP who are against these changes and those who are wanting to embrace a new tanking method. It needs...more though, it is basically a weaker sword and board currently.

@Ajaxduo Perhaps I'm missing something, what utility is being taken away? And dps wise only thing would be the 8% single target / aoe from ancient knowledge

Ajaxduo

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Ajaxduo wrote: »

Although you have a conflicted community atm, you have those who enjoy the utility and ice dps variants for both PvE and PvP who are against these changes and those who are wanting to embrace a new tanking method. It needs...more though, it is basically a weaker sword and board currently.

@Ajaxduo Perhaps I'm missing something, what utility is being taken away? And dps wise only thing would be the 8% single target / aoe from ancient knowledge

What I was saying is that a lot of people are not in favor of the change. Just takes reading a few pages of this thread to see that. Personally I'm for the change, ice builds were a niche thing but I get that people still want to have that option. Now it will be complicated as they will taunt with heavy attacks. Hence why they should move the taunt to a morph of destructive touch and implement more effects and debuffs to bring it up to par with sword and board.

Tyrobag

Baconlad wrote: »

The way to do frost tanking would be to finally add the missing skill lines to a fifth class, with cold tanking line, necro/ cold conjuration summoning line, and some other random line they think of.

I agree, frost was the only base element not represented in a class, and I know that we were all disappointed by the complete lack of necromancy. A new Necromancer class with frost magic, necromancy, and maybe Illusion magic would be awesome. Obviously the frost line wouldn't be pure tank, but a frost armor ability and a good stun (Permafrost?) would fit nicely and be in line with the other classes.

Personally, I think that magic tanking should be handled by adding new items. Warding stone and a new 1h Alteration staff. They could even work it into the original Sword and Shield line. Abilities in the line that use your weapon (Low Slash, Puncture) the attribute used would change with 1h Weap/ Staff and the ones that use the shield (Power Bash, Shield Charge, Defensive Stance) as well as blocking itself would change with the Shield/Warding Stone. This would allow for maximum versatility with tank builds.

Chadak

This seems like a hairbrained idea someone thought of at the pub 7.5 hours before needing to present something, had nothing else coming to mind and just ran with it.

It's a terrible idea. So many have pointed out why that I feel no need to repeat them.

I will add this though - I will never use an ice staff on my sorcerer again if this goes live.

What the heck would I do on a dps/crowd control guy with a freaking taunt built into the weapon?

No. Never ever ever.

Ever.

Lord_Eomer

Junipus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for Frost Staff tanking. Please let us know what you think of this new playstyle, if you ran into any bugs, and any other feedback you'd like to give.

[SNIp] this tanking is - stupid, annoying and no-one wanted it but you're determined to make it happen regardless.

Just do us a favour and revert it with the next update and chalk it up to "experience" [SNIp]

[Edited for Political convo]

Have u ever used ice staff? Stop lying.. it's something best happen for ice staff!

Akimbro

I'm actually surprised ice staff tanking hasn't been reverted yet. I think it's great that ZOS is trying to add more versatility to tanking specs, but converting ice staves is not the way to go. It's a dps weapon for crying out loud. Makes no sense to make a dps weapon utter useless for dps, instead of providing it something like armor/spell penetration to be more competitive with flame and lightning staves...

Woeler

Akimbro wrote: »

I'm actually surprised ice staff tanking hasn't been reverted yet. I think it's great that ZOS is trying to add more versatility to tanking specs, but converting ice staves is not the way to go. It's a dps weapon for crying out loud. Makes no sense to make a dps weapon utter useless for dps, instead of providing it something like armor/spell penetration to be more competitive with flame and lightning staves...

It was added. It became clear in 2 days that it was terrible. Now everyone has just abandoned ship. If they don't change anymore this will be garbage and nobody will use it apart from a few snowflake (ha, see what I did there?) builds.

It's sad.

Starless06

A defensive destruction staff is a horrible idea. It shows the developers lack of respect for the TES series. There has been a parity in damage between the 3 destructive elements in all the modern TES games. Frost or ice being the best damage at certain tiers.

There is already a school of magic devoted to defense, Alteration. Why not buff the ice staff to be an attractive alternative to fire and lightning. Instead of sweeping it's problems under the rug.
Give players a well thought out new staff instead of this mess.

TLDR: Buff ice staff and create a new staff for tanking.

Akimbro

Woeler wrote: »

Akimbro wrote: »

I'm actually surprised ice staff tanking hasn't been reverted yet. I think it's great that ZOS is trying to add more versatility to tanking specs, but converting ice staves is not the way to go. It's a dps weapon for crying out loud. Makes no sense to make a dps weapon utter useless for dps, instead of providing it something like armor/spell penetration to be more competitive with flame and lightning staves...

It was added. It became clear in 2 days that it was terrible. Now everyone has just abandoned ship. If they don't change anymore this will be garbage and nobody will use it apart from a few snowflake (ha, see what I did there?) builds.

It's sad.

If anything, they should make the option of staff tanking under resto staves instead. Maybe that just makes too much sense though.

Drishtan

THIS IS *** STUPID PLZ CHANGE IT ALL BACK!!!

Liofa

Wrobel said Frost Staff tanking is not something we will have to use . It is just for exploration and trying out new stuff , making different builds . That means it is not going to change , probably . You didn't listen to any feedback we gave and just wasted a huge opportunity of creating a build diversity for tanks ZOS . Now we are stuck with Ebon/Alkosh with double 1h/s for another year . Hope you prove me wrong and make it a little bit useful for tanks at least before release of Update 13 .

CubanRay

Liofa wrote: »

Wrobel said Frost Staff tanking is not something we will have to use . It is just for exploration and trying out new stuff , making different builds . That means it is not going to change , probably . You didn't listen to any feedback we gave and just wasted a huge opportunity of creating a build diversity for tanks ZOS . Now we are stuck with Ebon/Alkosh with double 1h/s for another year . Hope you prove me wrong and make it a little bit useful for tanks at least before release of Update 13 .

No,if you want to be a tank then grab a shield,this isn't Harry Potter.Staves are not for tanking!!!

Liofa

CubanRay wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Wrobel said Frost Staff tanking is not something we will have to use . It is just for exploration and trying out new stuff , making different builds . That means it is not going to change , probably . You didn't listen to any feedback we gave and just wasted a huge opportunity of creating a build diversity for tanks ZOS . Now we are stuck with Ebon/Alkosh with double 1h/s for another year . Hope you prove me wrong and make it a little bit useful for tanks at least before release of Update 13 .

No,if you want to be a tank then grab a shield,this isn't Harry Potter.Staves are not for tanking!!!

What if I told you Frost Staff is completely useless in anywhere else ? If you are doing PvE as a DD , you shouldn't be using Frost Staff anyways . In PvP , you can get snare from almost every skill and still can perma-root other players . Whatever you say , it still got buffed when you compare to previous Frost Staff passives . What is the problem ?

CubanRay

Liofa wrote: »

CubanRay wrote: »

Liofa wrote: »

Wrobel said Frost Staff tanking is not something we will have to use . It is just for exploration and trying out new stuff , making different builds . That means it is not going to change , probably . You didn't listen to any feedback we gave and just wasted a huge opportunity of creating a build diversity for tanks ZOS . Now we are stuck with Ebon/Alkosh with double 1h/s for another year . Hope you prove me wrong and make it a little bit useful for tanks at least before release of Update 13 .

No,if you want to be a tank then grab a shield,this isn't Harry Potter.Staves are not for tanking!!!

What if I told you Frost Staff is completely useless in anywhere else ? If you are doing PvE as a DD , you shouldn't be using Frost Staff anyways . In PvP , you can get snare from almost every skill and still can perma-root other players . Whatever you say , it still got buffed when you compare to previous Frost Staff passives . What is the problem ?

Yes the frost staff is under performance but is not they way to fix it,it will only make it worst.
How about fully charge heavy attack make an aoe on impact (release ice spikes for 5 meters around the enemy? ) sometimes more destructive rather than the taunt.

Toast_STS

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Ajaxduo wrote: »

Although you have a conflicted community atm, you have those who enjoy the utility and ice dps variants for both PvE and PvP who are against these changes and those who are wanting to embrace a new tanking method. It needs...more though, it is basically a weaker sword and board currently.

@Ajaxduo Perhaps I'm missing something, what utility is being taken away? And dps wise only thing would be the 8% single target / aoe from ancient knowledge

10% longer to charge a full heavy attack.

DeadlyRecluse

Eh, I'm excited to see how it plays out on live.

Withholding judgement on "it's terrible" or not until it gets more actual play.

CombatPrayer

I've said in the general section and I will say again here:

This would have been really useful to magic tanks had it been done right. You would have seen some interesting and possibly fantastic builds. But there is way to do it right and there is a way to do it wrong. This is the wrong way. A better way would be:

Add a passive to resto and desto skill tress that is specifically for tanking. The passive? Taunt/defensive.

When the update goes live, anyone who wants it can put a point or a few into it. Anyone who doesn't is free of this nonsense.

I don't really see how this kind of change is not doable. Why not give all staves the ability to taunt and make back bar desto/resto tank builds far more viable? Right now, people use them but they aren't always viable. I've seen some people play with them for hybrids and some templar tanks try to make them work, a few pulling it off well enough but I don't think really ever experimented with them too much because really magic tanks aren't that viable, at least in my experience. The need for stam to block sort of max stam tank the winner.

Kas

Sandman929 wrote: »

I think the majority of the feedback so far on frost staff tanking can be summed up in one word, and maybe we could all get on board if we got a clear, detailed description to answer the following feedback:

Why?

"people only want fire staves, how can we get them to use all staves?"
"have one for single target and one for aoe... and the third one... uhm"
"for tanking!"
"great work, balance team! 'nough work for 2016. let's go oneshot people in cyro with our ganker builds"

Drishtan

Y ZOS Y??? GET RID OF FROST TANKING NOW!!!! U STUPID STUPID DEVS!!!!!

Jennifur_Vultee

My friend Larz plays a mage and was intrigued by the idea of frost staff tanking but I have no clue how to even advise him on gear or skills other than frost staff. Is there any frost staff tank builds I could point him to to get him started? To me the idea just sound crazy but he's already leveling a sorcerer in mixed heavy/light with a frost staff.

TheBonesXXX

@ZOS

The next time I *** on the forums and you want more clarity about my ideas on changing up the staffs send me an email.

Frost staff tanking needs to be anti-damage.

meaning, the walls that absorb incoming missile damage.

Lord_Eomer

Bunch of noobs just crying about frost tanking, just ask yourself if you have ever used frost staff?

ZOS introduces frost tanking based on facts they have and i can see now lot of mage tanks will be using frost tanking!