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https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/8235739/
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Ideas on Frost Staff to Test
J2JMC
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As I don't have access to the PTS, I wanted to express some initial opinions on the frost staff changes as well as ideas that hopefully could be tested by players who can access the PTS. These ideas of mine are simply drawing boards and I did my best to consider both pvp and pve when coming up with them. Feedback is welcome and encouraged in order to make the new frost staff changes ZOS intends to implement a viable part of the game and not just some niche.
Ideas for future Frost staff changes
Aoe Taunt, Increased Heavy Attack Speed, Resistance buff
I think allowing the frost staff access to an aoe taunt is a must if people are going to consider it in lieu of a reliable way to quickly apply a taunt and both major debuffs from one ability(pierce armor). Perhaps reduce elemental rings damage and allow it to taunt anywhere from 3-6 targets if the user has frost staff equipped. I also think keeping the current 10% reduced heavy attack speed for frost staves would convince people to give the staff a chance as well. Finally giving frost staff users a unique buff to resistances(1950?) while the staff is equipped might be good as well. These are changes that I think will allow the frost staff to compete without with 1h&s use without actually removing 1h&s use from the game. The only issue now would be a reliable way to apply both major fracture and major breach, something I believe only nightblades and dks can do without a sword and board.
New sets
The best thing I can think of currently is developing two sets that can apply one of the debuffs to enemies(there is a precedent for sets applying debuffs with fasalla's guise). Two sets is required as one set that can apply both debuffs would be disgustingly broken, or require garbage stats +a weird condition to proc the debuffs making the set worthless. I think the 5 piece for these sets if created could read something like: "Blocking an enemy attack with a frost staff applies major(either breach or fracture) to the enemy for 15 seconds.This effect can occur 3 times every 10 seconds." Since blocking an attack drains magicka and gives less control of the engagement than simply using a skill out of combat to deliver the debuff, I think a 5 piece like this is somewhat reasonable if not slightly overturned. Allowing it to occur 3 times just provides leeway for bosses with adds. It is important to note that I personally don't think it a good idea to allow heavy attacking to apply the major debuffs because that significantly reduces the agency of the 1h&s as well as significantly reduces the tradeoffs off frost staff tanking(weaknesses are important in game balance!). As for the four piece bonuses, if you were to implement sets like the aforementioned, the set which delivers major fracture MUST NOT have stamina, stamina recovery or weapon damage on it and must have at least 1 max magicka or magicka recovery bonus on it. The major fracture debuff is not easily accessible to stamina dps without sword and board or class skills and given the current pvp meta needs to remain that way. Therefore providing a disincentive for pure stamina dps players from using a set like this would be priority. I figure on the set that gives major fracture, having the 4 piece bonuses be max magicka, max health, plus block cost reduction/reduce damage taken while blocking would be nice way to deter pure stamina dps players from using the set while still giving builds that value multiple stat bonuses room to work with it. On the major breach set I would change the max magicka stat to simply magicka recovery. The reason for that is both of these sets would be heavy armor and we don't want a heavy armor set providing the concentration passive from light armor and giving any damage bonuses.
Ideas to test on current PTS with current changes 1.4.17 (4.1.17) (ALL PVP RELATED)
If possible, I would love to see medium to large groups getting into cyrodiil combat and testing heavy frost staff attacking in combination with following sets and see how it feels to use and play against. The ideas is to have a long range disruptor that is incredibly annoying. I think nightblades might be the best class for this but could be wrong. Also note that I'm under the assumption you have a chance to snare the enemy every time a heavy attack hits.
Tremorscale: Coupled with tremorscale this has to be the most unfun thing to play against. 50% chance on heavy attack to apply an 8 second 70% aoe snare that only has a 4 second cd. Needs to be tried out in group combat. (Side note I think this set is rather broken and makes suggestions for good aoe taunts impossible. Needs to be lowered to 50 percent snare that lasts for 4 seconds or has a 25 percent proc chance imo)
Destructive Mage: In group pvp, this combined with tremor scale has to be nasty. The spell critical slightly wasted imo but it has a max magicka plus spell damage bonus which isn't too bad. Two frost staff users using this with tremor scale would be rather canc-...annoying.(Could perhaps even combine vicious death with this and tremor scale for hard to escape super explosions)
Spawn of Mephala: Max health bonus .Procs off heavy attacks, 10 second snare. Can only be used once every 10 seconds so perhaps not as useful but still something to look at.
The following are sets that syngerize with heavy attacks. Honestly I don't think they help this long range disruptor build idea at all but figured I'd list them for those that are more creative than me.
Arch-mage: Decent 4 piece bonuses plus restores magicka. Figure it allows you to not have to heavy attack on your resto bar or forego a resto bar. Can't see doing much with this set for this particular idea but figured I'd mention it.
Queen's Elegance- Another set with decent 4 piece bonuses. Not much to do with this set but if you're going to heavy attack spam anyway, extra damage could be nice.
Light of cyrodiil- Decent 4 piece, apparently heavy attacks proc the damage reduction so once again could be nice.
Undaunted infiltrator-Ok 4 piece but it's medium armor. Pretty easy way to buff the damage of your heavy attacks.
Undaunted bastion-Relying on completing a heavy attack for survivability may not be the smartest thing to do but I figured I'd mention this set anyway considering the intended playstyle of heavy attack spamming.
Final thoughts(TL;DR)
If ZOS is committed to these frost staff changes they need to make sure that it is a viable competitor for pvp and pve tankiness without being too niche(thus removing current frost builds for no reason) or without being too dominant(thus making sword and board obsolete). Admittedly my above ideas could be ignoring important aspects of the current game design so I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on the frost staff. However, there is one thing that I would like others to keep in mind. I am a firm believer in the idea that a lot of the perceived balance problems this game experiences comes from people who want the classes to be equally viable in every situation and champion points. I'm only going to focus on the equally viable part of what I previously said. Defined strengths and weaknesses are what allow for a balanced game. With ESO's play as you want motto, perfect balance in this game is not possible as ZOS will cater to the larger populace(rightfully so imo). With that in mind, changes to the frost staff(plus changes to the game in general) need to not be based off "X class, weapon, ability can do this so my class,weapon,ability should be able to do this too". With that in mind, I think sword & board's strengths should be the ability to quickly apply major debuffs to a single target with one ability, be more resistant to damage, and ulti regen. On the other hand frost staffs should require an ability outside the destruction staff, or a set bonus, to apply both debuffs. In exchange, frost staff can provide more damage, more disruption through cc effects like snares and hopefully an aoe taunt.
Thank you for reading and have a swell day.
Ideas for future Frost staff changes
Aoe Taunt, Increased Heavy Attack Speed, Resistance buff
I think allowing the frost staff access to an aoe taunt is a must if people are going to consider it in lieu of a reliable way to quickly apply a taunt and both major debuffs from one ability(pierce armor). Perhaps reduce elemental rings damage and allow it to taunt anywhere from 3-6 targets if the user has frost staff equipped. I also think keeping the current 10% reduced heavy attack speed for frost staves would convince people to give the staff a chance as well. Finally giving frost staff users a unique buff to resistances(1950?) while the staff is equipped might be good as well. These are changes that I think will allow the frost staff to compete without with 1h&s use without actually removing 1h&s use from the game. The only issue now would be a reliable way to apply both major fracture and major breach, something I believe only nightblades and dks can do without a sword and board.
New sets
The best thing I can think of currently is developing two sets that can apply one of the debuffs to enemies(there is a precedent for sets applying debuffs with fasalla's guise). Two sets is required as one set that can apply both debuffs would be disgustingly broken, or require garbage stats +a weird condition to proc the debuffs making the set worthless. I think the 5 piece for these sets if created could read something like: "Blocking an enemy attack with a frost staff applies major(either breach or fracture) to the enemy for 15 seconds.This effect can occur 3 times every 10 seconds." Since blocking an attack drains magicka and gives less control of the engagement than simply using a skill out of combat to deliver the debuff, I think a 5 piece like this is somewhat reasonable if not slightly overturned. Allowing it to occur 3 times just provides leeway for bosses with adds. It is important to note that I personally don't think it a good idea to allow heavy attacking to apply the major debuffs because that significantly reduces the agency of the 1h&s as well as significantly reduces the tradeoffs off frost staff tanking(weaknesses are important in game balance!). As for the four piece bonuses, if you were to implement sets like the aforementioned, the set which delivers major fracture MUST NOT have stamina, stamina recovery or weapon damage on it and must have at least 1 max magicka or magicka recovery bonus on it. The major fracture debuff is not easily accessible to stamina dps without sword and board or class skills and given the current pvp meta needs to remain that way. Therefore providing a disincentive for pure stamina dps players from using a set like this would be priority. I figure on the set that gives major fracture, having the 4 piece bonuses be max magicka, max health, plus block cost reduction/reduce damage taken while blocking would be nice way to deter pure stamina dps players from using the set while still giving builds that value multiple stat bonuses room to work with it. On the major breach set I would change the max magicka stat to simply magicka recovery. The reason for that is both of these sets would be heavy armor and we don't want a heavy armor set providing the concentration passive from light armor and giving any damage bonuses.
Ideas to test on current PTS with current changes 1.4.17 (4.1.17) (ALL PVP RELATED)
If possible, I would love to see medium to large groups getting into cyrodiil combat and testing heavy frost staff attacking in combination with following sets and see how it feels to use and play against. The ideas is to have a long range disruptor that is incredibly annoying. I think nightblades might be the best class for this but could be wrong. Also note that I'm under the assumption you have a chance to snare the enemy every time a heavy attack hits.
Tremorscale: Coupled with tremorscale this has to be the most unfun thing to play against. 50% chance on heavy attack to apply an 8 second 70% aoe snare that only has a 4 second cd. Needs to be tried out in group combat. (Side note I think this set is rather broken and makes suggestions for good aoe taunts impossible. Needs to be lowered to 50 percent snare that lasts for 4 seconds or has a 25 percent proc chance imo)
Destructive Mage: In group pvp, this combined with tremor scale has to be nasty. The spell critical slightly wasted imo but it has a max magicka plus spell damage bonus which isn't too bad. Two frost staff users using this with tremor scale would be rather canc-...annoying.(Could perhaps even combine vicious death with this and tremor scale for hard to escape super explosions)
Spawn of Mephala: Max health bonus .Procs off heavy attacks, 10 second snare. Can only be used once every 10 seconds so perhaps not as useful but still something to look at.
The following are sets that syngerize with heavy attacks. Honestly I don't think they help this long range disruptor build idea at all but figured I'd list them for those that are more creative than me.
Arch-mage: Decent 4 piece bonuses plus restores magicka. Figure it allows you to not have to heavy attack on your resto bar or forego a resto bar. Can't see doing much with this set for this particular idea but figured I'd mention it.
Queen's Elegance- Another set with decent 4 piece bonuses. Not much to do with this set but if you're going to heavy attack spam anyway, extra damage could be nice.
Light of cyrodiil- Decent 4 piece, apparently heavy attacks proc the damage reduction so once again could be nice.
Undaunted infiltrator-Ok 4 piece but it's medium armor. Pretty easy way to buff the damage of your heavy attacks.
Undaunted bastion-Relying on completing a heavy attack for survivability may not be the smartest thing to do but I figured I'd mention this set anyway considering the intended playstyle of heavy attack spamming.
Final thoughts(TL;DR)
If ZOS is committed to these frost staff changes they need to make sure that it is a viable competitor for pvp and pve tankiness without being too niche(thus removing current frost builds for no reason) or without being too dominant(thus making sword and board obsolete). Admittedly my above ideas could be ignoring important aspects of the current game design so I'd love to hear other people's thoughts on the frost staff. However, there is one thing that I would like others to keep in mind. I am a firm believer in the idea that a lot of the perceived balance problems this game experiences comes from people who want the classes to be equally viable in every situation and champion points. I'm only going to focus on the equally viable part of what I previously said. Defined strengths and weaknesses are what allow for a balanced game. With ESO's play as you want motto, perfect balance in this game is not possible as ZOS will cater to the larger populace(rightfully so imo). With that in mind, changes to the frost staff(plus changes to the game in general) need to not be based off "X class, weapon, ability can do this so my class,weapon,ability should be able to do this too". With that in mind, I think sword & board's strengths should be the ability to quickly apply major debuffs to a single target with one ability, be more resistant to damage, and ulti regen. On the other hand frost staffs should require an ability outside the destruction staff, or a set bonus, to apply both debuffs. In exchange, frost staff can provide more damage, more disruption through cc effects like snares and hopefully an aoe taunt.
Thank you for reading and have a swell day.
Knee Jerk, L2P, Obtuse, Casual, Entitled, All The Best, unnecessary mention of CoD
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert
Battle leveling for pve content defeats the idea of progression. Remove CP
"Apparently the players are more informed than we are"-Richard Lambert
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