Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

Universe

Great news!
No crit for proc sets, awesome
This is a step in the right direction.

Agobi

As usual Zo$ takes the heavyhanded approach,at the expense of PvE........big surprise there

Paneross

YESH YESH YESH! The only thing I disagree is the Poison nerf. Other than that YES YES YES YES

SJD_Phoenix

Now I'm second guessing farming Vipers for my Stam sorc vMA build.......

Sake.

Liofa

Worst patch for PvE . Best patch for PvP . I don't like it .

bottleofsyrup

Isellskooma wrote: »

WTF Zenimax! What kind of *** balance to proc sets is that! You *** pieces of ***, fix this stupid *** before you loose more and more players.

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souravami

Everybody was complaining about proc sets in pvp, nobody said anything about the use of them in pve. Why not change them only in Cyrodil through battlespirit? More over crit is much more important in pve than pvp as everyone wears impen gear there.

Woeler

When is this game going to learn that you can split pvp and pve? Grothdar, Ilambris, Kragh, all going to be utterly useless in pve now.

Break pvp for the sake of pve, break pve for the sake of pvp. So, I guess update 14 we are going to break pvp again for the sake of pve.

But even after this patch, if you get a heavy attack viper-widowmaker-velidreth proc, you'll be dead. Crit or not.

FloppyTouch

I like what I'm seeing thanks

Schore159

and what about all the "bugs/exploits" about proc sets?
like doube selene proc or infernal guardian hit through walls or hit stealthed players or all the others im not going to post here?

Panth141

@ZOS_RichLambert

There are some really nice changes in here, so thanks for the sneak peak!

I must say, though, that removing proc set crits in PvE is - in my mind - a significant and unnecessary nerf, if this applies to monster sets, that is. Some monster sets (Grothdarr, Ilambris come to mind) may be over performing, but nerfing all of them across the board may be a bit much.

If you have, say, 60% crit and a 1.65x crit modifier, then this equates to a (I have had a bit of a drink, so forgive any errors!) 28% decrease in damage for any proc-based set, when averaged across a suitable number of procs.

I haven't done the additional maths to offer comparisons, but I fear that many monster sets may now be superseded by use of a second 5-piece set, which offer reliable and non-nerfed damage. I particularly expect this to be the case for builds that run higher crit and multipliers, for whom the nerf is more significant.

Monster sets are such a unique and fantastic feature of the game, so I'd hate to see them fall out of favour because of this.

GawdSB

How about make the crit change in PVP zones only? Why do PVE players need to suffer because of this?

texassob

@Jaronking @Ron_Burgundy_79 here we go lol

Beware13

RIP PVE 2016 - Gone but not forgotten.

Proc sets not being able to crit in PVP? Awesome. But please make it not the same outside of PVP. Don't do this to us PVErs!!!!!!

Chres

thanks so much for giving us a sneek peak.

good changes. looking forward for the whole patch notes.

Sargentwilko51

Let us all hope beyond hope that monster sets are not included in this 'proc set' statement. If monster sets cannot crit, and since they already have a fixed damage output, the damage sets (ilambris, groth, skoria) will all be replaced by a 2nd 5 pc set.. or dare I say Kena will make its dreadful comeback...

Please just let this be 5 pc proc sets and not monster sets...

(Honestly, I would be grateful for the removal to ever run pledges again...)

Dagoth_Rac

Yikes. That is a huge nerf to PvE. And with most players in PvP running critical damage reduction traits and CP, this probably will not make a big difference in PvP. And it was really chaining together proc sets in PvP that was the problem. Any chance of limiting this to burst damage proc sets? That is the real issue in PvP. I don't think anyone is scared of ground-based DoTs in PvP. But ground-based DoTs are a big part of generating sustained DPS in PvE fights against bosses with tens of millions of health.

Praeficere

If I understand correctly, Viper/Red Mountain etc. are unchanged in PvP as they scale on spell crit which was irrelevant on those builds anyway

Pops_ND_Irish

hehe figures, trying help, never satisfied !

Derra

Woeler wrote: »

When is this game going to learn that you can split pvp and pve? Grothdar, Ilambris, Kragh, all going to be utterly useless in pve now.

Break pvp for the sake of pve, break pve for the sake of pvp. So, I guess update 14 we are going to break pvp again for the sake of pve.

But even after this patch, if you get a heavy attack viper-widowmaker-velidreth proc, you'll be dead. Crit or not.

Guess it´s back to kena for any build that can sustain it.

Praeficere

Woeler wrote: »

When is this game going to learn that you can split pvp and pve? Grothdar, Ilambris, Kragh, all going to be utterly useless in pve now.

Break pvp for the sake of pve, break pve for the sake of pvp. So, I guess update 14 we are going to break pvp again for the sake of pve.

But even after this patch, if you get a heavy attack viper-widowmaker-velidreth proc, you'll be dead. Crit or not.

Potential DPS in PvE is OTT, acceptable change

DoccEff

RIP all monster sets for PvE Dps...

pieratsos

Maybe the nerf to proc sets in PVE was intended and not just another nerf cause of PVP? Just maybe. I mean considering that most of those sets are OP af and there is no reason to run anything else then a nerf should be expected right?

OrphanHelgen

How is proc sets affecting pve?
I personally use poisoned serpent 5 piece on my stam dk. That set is single target only, no burst potential and only works with specific builds, which btw are none meta builds. That means im using this set for single target long fight only, which has nothing to do with the proc set rage in the first place or pvp, so why am I getting this nerf on me again?

ginoboehm

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober
Hello Mr Lambert,
I think you understood our requests wrongly. Proc sets are a major problem in PVP not PVE you nerf them major for PVE and only marginally for PVP.
THIS IS NOT WHAT ANYBODY WANTS.
Look in pvp we wear a lot of impen to reduce crit damage. In pve we use thief or shadow to push the two crit stats(not even talking about the sets and traits who focus on crit). Now if you let those proc sets not crit you hugely nerf pve and leave pvp at it is (more or less)
Ofc it will help somehow and it better than nothing because especially gankblades stack sooo much crit that you cannot mitigate it all with impen . nonetheless it is a silly change.The goal cannot be to make a pve huge nerf to help pvp a bit(if at all)
My opinion:
"Damage in my opionion should be reliable and skill should determin the outcome not silly procs that proc from simple light attacks and from 3 different sets"

Please don't waste another patch with bad thought out changes and on mechanics you do not completly have thought through.
Talk to knowledgable people like @sypherpk @FENGRUSH @Etaniel @Blobsky @Derra and leaders of big and good pvp guilds like smooky and @Hexys
Thank you for your time.

pattyLtd

Wait, this wont ruin all builds based on high crit chance will it?
If it does its way overkill but love the loading screen nerf thoguh.

Why not look at the biggest problem sets first and isnt the stacking what makes it OP not that it crits?
Anyway glad you havent given up yet haha

Paneross

I am very excited if this is just a taste! Keep up the good work!

Derra

pieratsos wrote: »

Maybe the nerf to proc sets in PVE was intended and not just another nerf cause of PVP? Just maybe. I mean considering that most of those sets are OP af and there is no reason to run anything else then a nerf should be expected right?

Arguable they were overperforming in both scenarios. So you could be right.

Sigtric

pieratsos wrote: »

Maybe the nerf to proc sets in PVE was intended and not just another nerf cause of PVP? Just maybe. I mean considering that most of those sets are OP af and there is no reason to run anything else then a nerf should be expected right?

This could be it. As is, vipers/etc is really shoehorning the majority of the playerbase into specific builds. If ZOS decides they want more diversity in equipped gear, they need to make it all somewhat comparable. Bringing proc sets down a notch or two helps this.

Additionally, proc is just cheese. It's not skill, and if they want PVE DPS to return to skillful play, bringing procs down a bit will help edge towards that goal as well.

As someone who PVE and PVP, I am totally fine with this. I'd be happy with no overland proc at all and leave that as a monster set job.

Ankael07

A lot of good changes. But why nerf every proc set while you can only nerf the ones that have overpowered burst? Are you telling me that players were dying to sets like Illambris,Bahraha's Curse or Nerieneth?