Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

Dev · December 2016

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Through 36 pages the fact that only a small handful of replies, like this one, seem to point out that PVE is more imbalanced than PVP, is quite ridiculous..

You mean from the pvp players trying to act like pve players to make this seem more acceptable for the pve players to suffer?
Seriously, look at the profile > comments and scroll through them. The only people who like this are pvpers.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If taking crits away from PVE makes more people have to group up for content that's a good thing. If it makes Maelstrom harder, that's a good thing. If some dungeons become more about the boss mechanics and not just READY-AIM-MELT, that's a good thing. If overland content now requires some attention by the player, that's a good thing.

Yet another fine example of the arrogance among pvp players. Amazing how many pvp players tell pve players that this is good, and then cry how proc sets need to be nerfed.

If pvp players cannot run around in glass cannon builds, its a good thing. If they need to spec for surviving more then damage, its a good thing. If they need to get some self heals and better sustain, its a good thing. If they have to take their head out of their butts and realize they are not the only player of the game, its a good thing. And if they all quit the game, its a omg great thing.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Please stop blaming PVP. This nerf was not all about them. PVPers are just taking the brunt of the backlash because Deadra can't defend themselves on this forum.

No, pvpers are getting the backlash because they have been responsible for most of the nerfs to date, AND specifically this list of pvp changes.

The entire sneak peek is pvp based updates, so yes it is their fault. This is happening because of pvp, yet again....

The trick is that after so long and so many nerfs, the rest of the game is seeing what has been happening and isnt happy.

Keep this one fact in mind:

If every single pvp player quit right now, there would be a notable impact (at best) and the game could continue.
if every single pve player quit today, the game would close down.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If you're a good player you'll adjust.

same could be said for all the pvp players who failed to see a way to beat proc sets or any of the hundreds of other nerfs pve had to deal with.

How many times do we 'need to adjust' because of pvp? the game is three years old, and it still is not balanced. Would really help if someone in zos management could understand the fact they there is no way to balance classes and pvp. no game has ever done it right, and none will ever be able to.

Sigtric · December 2016

Dreyloch wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Dreyloch wrote: »

"PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them."

Yes Mr Dev. this is true. We do want things to spend AP on. However, if I'm reading this correctly. This has got to be the most horrible RNG based way to get any item in the entire game. Please at least consider doing individual bags for each set type. To lump them all into one "zone bag" like that will make it so:

1) No one could ever complete a set of any kind. 1 set of any sort is hard enough with RNG to get the pieces and traits you want. Now times that by 3? I pray it's suddenly April fool's day. I seriously do. Unless weapons only come in sharpened/defensive/powered from these bags...unless the armor only comes in Impen or infused (for those that like more stat pools). Then these bags are a total waste of anyone's time and AP.
2) Green or blue only? This matters when it comes to jewelry. Armor, not so much. I'd rather wait till the end of time for Gold bling and have enough AP to buy a couple sets of it off the weekly vendor, then to use AP on this stupidity.

So, please. Don't even bother putting things into the game for us PvP'ers if this is what your brain trust is coming up with. FYI, no one is buying the 50k AP bags as it is. They are garbage sets for the most part. If I would suggest anything, it'd be to make those bags cost 5k AP.

On the other hand

I have a bit of AP that is just sitting there with nothing to spend it on and several set items that I need, that after countless hours of farming I've still not obtained, so I'll be throwing some AP at the zone bags to add to my chances of getting what I want.

On the other, other hand lol...
You can spend your AP any way you want. I think your PvE grinding would bring what you want faster than this disgusting use of RNG with the bags. 1 set has how many pieces? Every type of weapon, most types of jewelry, and 7 armor pieces(including all the traits). Now times that by 3 different sets possible coming out of one bag and try figuring out your chances of getting anything remotely close to what you want. Then, if it's jewelry your after? It comes in blue at best. Tell me you don't see the stupidity in this? Personally, I like mindlessly grinding once in awhile on super easy PvE mobs. Plus I make some decent coin selling off all the junk. I think the proposal here is just way out of whack.

@Dreyloch if my understanding of the bags is correct, the RNG in any given bag will match that of any given possible loot event in the overland zone.

For instance if I am after Silks of the Sun, that is in Stonefalls, where Shalk(I think) and Red Mountain drop. If I kill a boss he could drop any item from any of those 3 sets. If I buy an AP Stonefalls bag, it would be the same loot table.

So come this update, if I am still farming stonefalls for this one piece of Sun set I need, and these bags go live. Yeah, I'm spending some of that AP on them for more rolls against that loot table.

I am guessing my chances might actually be better in the bags than in the zone, as sometimes those bosses and treasure chests I've been farming don't drop a set item at all.

Clarkieson · December 2016

All anyone need to really know about this

Our views and opinions are irrelevant, the changes are coming and the new farm fest will either commence or the game will die

Either way, trials are about to get alot harder and pvp tryhrards are still going to find ways to break the game

Happy new year

Sigtric · December 2016

Clarkieson wrote: »

All anyone need to really know about this

Our views and opinions are irrelevant, the changes are coming and the new farm fest will either commence or the game will die

Either way, trials are about to get alot harder and pvp tryhrards are still going to find ways to break the game

Happy new year

Speaking of try hards for as much hyperbole as you type, one would think you'd be better at it.

Clarkieson · December 2016

Sigtric wrote: »

Clarkieson wrote: »

All anyone need to really know about this

Our views and opinions are irrelevant, the changes are coming and the new farm fest will either commence or the game will die

Either way, trials are about to get alot harder and pvp tryhrards are still going to find ways to break the game

Happy new year

Speaking of try hards for as much hyperbole as you type, one would think you'd be better at it.

Touche my dear friend, i fail to see any enlightenment that you could ever shed on any subject with a charm and arrogance such as you possess

Bobby_V_Rockit · December 2016

All I want is some viability with being a stamina based vampire. But a boy can dream, yes a boy can dream...

kyle.wilson · December 2016

cpuScientist wrote: »

kyle.wilson wrote: »

The proc sets have been massively overpowered since inception. When a set item can be as much as 20-30% of you damage in pve. Or 75% on an encounter in pvp. It needs changing.
But, the current state of pvp will need a lot more than just removing crit from proc sets to rebalance it. I've been running a viper, selene proctard in trueflame while running solo. It is the only thing that will let me in and out before their 10 friends roll me. I have many other chars I would rather play, but get frustrated by the massive zerg. But, by playing a proctard I can easily drop zerg leaders and bail.

But, I'm more looking to the changes in AOE caps. Maybe we can break up some of the notorious zergling groups in trueflame.

No offense but if they are doing that much of your damage, then you need to change your build...

Wearing Viper, selene, and embrace. When I open from stealth Viper procs, most times selene procs, and the wep enchants. That can be as much as 16k. When most players only have 22-25k health. its substantial. Ive had players drops so fast I didn't have a chance to incap strike. All I do is a heavy from stealth into incap. Because I use a channeled heavy to open, viper seems to be the first hit in most cases.

DPShiro · December 2016

Dev wrote: »

Mako1132 wrote: »

You have to be kidding me. Every update in this game's history has catered to PvE (even the imperial city).

Your going to try and tell us that IC was a PVE update? In the middle of pvp land, and has pvp there? Get real
It is pvp content with pve elements, just the same as cyrodil. Any zone where there is pvp is a pvp zone. You can choose not to go after other people, but you cannot prevent them from attacking you means it is pvp. If a player cannot go through the content without some idiot ganking them, then it is pvp.

Mako1132 wrote: »

The game was billed as a PvP game, and the continued neglect ZOS showed to that side is what has run the population down. PvP population is abysmal as is trial/dungeon population compared to where we were before it became obvious ZOS wanted nothing to do with PvP.

This game was not a primary pvp game and anyone who thought that this would prioritize pvp clearly has no idea what elder scrolls has been about. Stop spreading lies, it was not a pvp game.

PVP population has consistently dropped since day 1 because pvp sucks. The reason that it has had continued decline in population is just because once the pve player gets what they need, or decides that dealing with pvp players is not worth their time, they wont go back.

PVP by nature is predatory, and a lot of people lose perspective. Look over this thread and see how many pvp players just dismiss the impact they have on other people. Guess what, pvp isnt as important as you think, and zos knows it.

Zos should continue to downsize pvp. As long as it is joined to pve, this game will continue to suffer.

Mako1132 wrote: »

They show one tiny preview of some PvP changes and PvE players go apeshit because one of them is an overall balance change that requires them to probably use a different gear setup.

That is correct, we do not want our gear made useless to appease the pvp players nor do we want our abilities altered for them.

Why do you feel that you as a pvp player have the right to dismiss the effort and time spent by others?

Why should any of the gear in a MMORPG be based on the smallest subset of players?

Do you see the same thousand names in cyrodil and think that because one instance got pop locked that means it is actually popular? No, they reduce the amount that people can enter to mask the declining numbers. There used to be 20 instances for pvp, and now it is what 4 instance total, lol lol lol. time to cut the last 4 and move on.

Dev wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Through 36 pages the fact that only a small handful of replies, like this one, seem to point out that PVE is more imbalanced than PVP, is quite ridiculous..

You mean from the pvp players trying to act like pve players to make this seem more acceptable for the pve players to suffer?
Seriously, look at the profile > comments and scroll through them. The only people who like this are pvpers.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If taking crits away from PVE makes more people have to group up for content that's a good thing. If it makes Maelstrom harder, that's a good thing. If some dungeons become more about the boss mechanics and not just READY-AIM-MELT, that's a good thing. If overland content now requires some attention by the player, that's a good thing.

Yet another fine example of the arrogance among pvp players. Amazing how many pvp players tell pve players that this is good, and then cry how proc sets need to be nerfed.

If pvp players cannot run around in glass cannon builds, its a good thing. If they need to spec for surviving more then damage, its a good thing. If they need to get some self heals and better sustain, its a good thing. If they have to take their head out of their butts and realize they are not the only player of the game, its a good thing. And if they all quit the game, its a omg great thing.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Please stop blaming PVP. This nerf was not all about them. PVPers are just taking the brunt of the backlash because Deadra can't defend themselves on this forum.

No, pvpers are getting the backlash because they have been responsible for most of the nerfs to date, AND specifically this list of pvp changes.

The entire sneak peek is pvp based updates, so yes it is their fault. This is happening because of pvp, yet again....

The trick is that after so long and so many nerfs, the rest of the game is seeing what has been happening and isnt happy.

Keep this one fact in mind:
If every single pvp player quit right now, there would be a notable impact (at best) and the game could continue.

if every single pve player quit today, the game would close down.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If you're a good player you'll adjust.

same could be said for all the pvp players who failed to see a way to beat proc sets or any of the hundreds of other nerfs pve had to deal with.

How many times do we 'need to adjust' because of pvp? the game is three years old, and it still is not balanced. Would really help if someone in zos management could understand the fact they there is no way to balance classes and pvp. no game has ever done it right, and none will ever be able to.

Very well said, agree with everything.

Arthg · December 2016

Dev wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Through 36 pages the fact that only a small handful of replies, like this one, seem to point out that PVE is more imbalanced than PVP, is quite ridiculous..

You mean from the pvp players trying to act like pve players to make this seem more acceptable for the pve players to suffer?
Seriously, look at the profile > comments and scroll through them. The only people who like this are pvpers.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If taking crits away from PVE makes more people have to group up for content that's a good thing. If it makes Maelstrom harder, that's a good thing. If some dungeons become more about the boss mechanics and not just READY-AIM-MELT, that's a good thing. If overland content now requires some attention by the player, that's a good thing.

Yet another fine example of the arrogance among pvp players. Amazing how many pvp players tell pve players that this is good, and then cry how proc sets need to be nerfed.

If pvp players cannot run around in glass cannon builds, its a good thing. If they need to spec for surviving more then damage, its a good thing. If they need to get some self heals and better sustain, its a good thing. If they have to take their head out of their butts and realize they are not the only player of the game, its a good thing. And if they all quit the game, its a omg great thing.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Please stop blaming PVP. This nerf was not all about them. PVPers are just taking the brunt of the backlash because Deadra can't defend themselves on this forum.

No, pvpers are getting the backlash because they have been responsible for most of the nerfs to date, AND specifically this list of pvp changes.

The entire sneak peek is pvp based updates, so yes it is their fault. This is happening because of pvp, yet again....

The trick is that after so long and so many nerfs, the rest of the game is seeing what has been happening and isnt happy.

Keep this one fact in mind:
If every single pvp player quit right now, there would be a notable impact (at best) and the game could continue.

if every single pve player quit today, the game would close down.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If you're a good player you'll adjust.

same could be said for all the pvp players who failed to see a way to beat proc sets or any of the hundreds of other nerfs pve had to deal with.

How many times do we 'need to adjust' because of pvp? the game is three years old, and it still is not balanced. Would really help if someone in zos management could understand the fact they there is no way to balance classes and pvp. no game has ever done it right, and none will ever be able to.

So basically you want to get rid of PvP so you can go on soloing 4-man content.

That's brutal, mate.

Destruent · December 2016

Arthg wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Through 36 pages the fact that only a small handful of replies, like this one, seem to point out that PVE is more imbalanced than PVP, is quite ridiculous..

You mean from the pvp players trying to act like pve players to make this seem more acceptable for the pve players to suffer?
Seriously, look at the profile > comments and scroll through them. The only people who like this are pvpers.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If taking crits away from PVE makes more people have to group up for content that's a good thing. If it makes Maelstrom harder, that's a good thing. If some dungeons become more about the boss mechanics and not just READY-AIM-MELT, that's a good thing. If overland content now requires some attention by the player, that's a good thing.

Yet another fine example of the arrogance among pvp players. Amazing how many pvp players tell pve players that this is good, and then cry how proc sets need to be nerfed.

If pvp players cannot run around in glass cannon builds, its a good thing. If they need to spec for surviving more then damage, its a good thing. If they need to get some self heals and better sustain, its a good thing. If they have to take their head out of their butts and realize they are not the only player of the game, its a good thing. And if they all quit the game, its a omg great thing.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Please stop blaming PVP. This nerf was not all about them. PVPers are just taking the brunt of the backlash because Deadra can't defend themselves on this forum.

No, pvpers are getting the backlash because they have been responsible for most of the nerfs to date, AND specifically this list of pvp changes.

The entire sneak peek is pvp based updates, so yes it is their fault. This is happening because of pvp, yet again....

The trick is that after so long and so many nerfs, the rest of the game is seeing what has been happening and isnt happy.

Keep this one fact in mind:
If every single pvp player quit right now, there would be a notable impact (at best) and the game could continue.

if every single pve player quit today, the game would close down.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If you're a good player you'll adjust.

same could be said for all the pvp players who failed to see a way to beat proc sets or any of the hundreds of other nerfs pve had to deal with.

How many times do we 'need to adjust' because of pvp? the game is three years old, and it still is not balanced. Would really help if someone in zos management could understand the fact they there is no way to balance classes and pvp. no game has ever done it right, and none will ever be able to.

So basically you want to get rid of PvP so you can go on soloing 4-man content.

That's brutal, mate.

Critting Monstersets don't allow you to solo 4-man-dungeons.
Problem with this overall nerf is, that it hits sets which are only slightly worth using. I think most people would be ok with nerfing Grothdar, Ilambris and Velidreth for PvE-reasons to balance them. But there is no reason to nerf skoria, nerieneth, ashen grip, poisonous serpent or whatever for pve-reasons.
This change will just make more and more sets worthless and their corresponding dungeons aswell.

Malmai · December 2016

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:
The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage

The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)

The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)

Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

Poison fixes / adjustments
All poisons now share the same global cooldown and no longer have individual cooldowns. This means that when Update 13 goes live, it will no longer be possible to proc a poison more than once every 10 seconds.In addition, we’ve been able to track down and fix a separate issue where poisons could sometimes double proc.

Stuck in combat in Cyrodiil
This has been an ongoing issue in Cyrodiil for a long time now – due to the nature of combat in Cyrodiil there were cascading threat issues between players. (i.e. – You fight another player and all the threat they have on them is transferred to you) We’ve changed how threat is transferred between players and when Update 13 goes live, you should always drop combat properly after 6 seconds of ending a battle. Note: If you are grouped with other players and they are actively in combat, you will still be considered in combat as well.

Charging into loadscreens in Cyrodiil
We think we have a fix! It’s been really, really hard for us to repro this one internally, and therefore really difficult to fix. A huge thank you to everyone who has submitted locations and videos of how to repro the issue. If you get it again after Update 13, please let us know. (Provide the date/time & campaign - if you have a video of it, even better)

PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them.

Again, this is just a sneak peak... not an exhaustive list. There is a lot more coming in Update 13, including a whole bunch of balance fixes. (Patch Notes aren't quite done yet, so hang in there for awhile longer)

Enjoy your holidays and please be safe on New Years!

Make proc sets dont crit only in PvP wtf... what kinda decision is this. PvE has to suffer everytime...

Koensol · December 2016

Clarkieson wrote: »

Sigtric wrote: »

Clarkieson wrote: »

All anyone need to really know about this

Our views and opinions are irrelevant, the changes are coming and the new farm fest will either commence or the game will die

Either way, trials are about to get alot harder and pvp tryhrards are still going to find ways to break the game

Happy new year

Speaking of try hards for as much hyperbole as you type, one would think you'd be better at it.

Touche my dear friend, i fail to see any enlightenment that you could ever shed on any subject with a charm and arrogance such as you possess

Oh the irony... Please, give me your crystal ball Clarkieson. Shed us some light on the full contents of the patch notes. Enlighten us!

Bobby_V_Rockit · December 2016

Perhaps precise will become a more desirable trait. Because the hard hitting procs no longer fire, critical damage from actual weapons and spells will be more important...

Maybe...

Destruent · December 2016

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Perhaps precise will become a more desirable trait. Because the hard hitting procs no longer fire, critical damage from actual weapons and spells will be more important...

Maybe...

wtf? This change will make crit even less important in pve...how could make this precise more viable?

Dev · December 2016

Arthg wrote: »

So basically you want to get rid of PvP so you can go on soloing 4-man content.

That's brutal, mate.

I would prefer that the two were separated so that each could be balanced to their specific content type instead of this constant 'its bad in pvp' and i have to change whatever. it gets old, and its been going on too long.

After seeing first hand how people act in cyrodil and reading these forums, why would i want these one sided nerfs to continue to work against me?

So if they cant separate, then eliminate. Sorry but i have no intentions on choosing the 'continue to adjust for them' crap.

Bobby_V_Rockit · December 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Perhaps precise will become a more desirable trait. Because the hard hitting procs no longer fire, critical damage from actual weapons and spells will be more important...

Maybe...

wtf? This change will make crit even less important in pve...how could make this precise more viable?

Because maths. If your crit is 50% then every second hit does more damage, so you dont really need more than 60% to make sure the majority of your heavy hits are critical. However, that only works if your relying on large damage outputs. If you need to rely on lower damage output, 75-80% crit would be needed to raise your hits to 3 out of 4 or higher.

Wait for one of the math wiz folks to explain it better. Its just a balance between odds and payout, lower the payout so increase the chance

Destruent · December 2016

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Perhaps precise will become a more desirable trait. Because the hard hitting procs no longer fire, critical damage from actual weapons and spells will be more important...

Maybe...

wtf? This change will make crit even less important in pve...how could make this precise more viable?

Because maths. If your crit is 50% then every second hit does more damage, so you dont really need more than 60% to make sure the majority of your heavy hits are critical. However, that only works if your relying on large damage outputs. If you need to rely on lower damage output, 75-80% crit would be needed to raise your hits to 3 out of 4 or higher.

Wait for one of the math wiz folks to explain it better. Its just a balance between odds and payout, lower the payout so increase the chance

You are so wrong. It's not about 2 or 3 hits. it's about 10000 hits per fights, then we can talk about things like this.
or short: if i increase my critchance by 0.1% to 60.1 % (from 60% obv) i will most likely get ~6010 crits instead of ~6000 out of 10000 hits.

atm: 7% crit *100% of the damage = 7% effective Crit

with this change: 7% crit *95% of the damage = 6.65% Crit

i guess it's easy to see, the first one is stronger.

Bobby_V_Rockit · December 2016

Destruent wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Destruent wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Perhaps precise will become a more desirable trait. Because the hard hitting procs no longer fire, critical damage from actual weapons and spells will be more important...

Maybe...

wtf? This change will make crit even less important in pve...how could make this precise more viable?

Because maths. If your crit is 50% then every second hit does more damage, so you dont really need more than 60% to make sure the majority of your heavy hits are critical. However, that only works if your relying on large damage outputs. If you need to rely on lower damage output, 75-80% crit would be needed to raise your hits to 3 out of 4 or higher.

Wait for one of the math wiz folks to explain it better. Its just a balance between odds and payout, lower the payout so increase the chance

You are so wrong. It's not about 2 or 3 hits. it's about 10000 hits per fights, then we can talk about things like this.
or short: if i increase my critchance by 0.1% to 60.1 % (from 60% obv) i will most likely get ~6010 crits instead of ~6000 out of 10000 hits.

atm: 7% crit *100% of the damage = 7% effective Crit

with this change: 7% crit *95% of the damage = 6.65% Crit

i guess it's easy to see, the first one is stronger.

Raising the crit from 7% to 8% crit*95% of the the damage... this is why precise may be useful... if crit stays the same then no *** its weaker, increase the crit and it will bring it up

mr_runaway_666b16_ESO · December 2016

If proc sets are such a big problem in pvp, why not make a set that you can wear that reflects proc damage back to the attacker, it would discourage the use of them greatly.

SirCritical · December 2016

IxSTALKERxI wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert

Thank you very much for this post. The more you communicate with us and are open about the ideas you have in mind, the more we can provide feedback and give suggestions that will help improve the game.

And we'll have more chance to refine those planned modifications.

cpuScientist · December 2016

Hey ZOS don't you know, come in here and moderate this thread or anything. You know to bring the toxicity down or anything.

Sometimes it feels like ZOS just likes to troll you know. Just bam drop some crap and watch people go mad haha.

K4RMA · December 2016

Dev wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Through 36 pages the fact that only a small handful of replies, like this one, seem to point out that PVE is more imbalanced than PVP, is quite ridiculous..

You mean from the pvp players trying to act like pve players to make this seem more acceptable for the pve players to suffer?
Seriously, look at the profile > comments and scroll through them. The only people who like this are pvpers.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If taking crits away from PVE makes more people have to group up for content that's a good thing. If it makes Maelstrom harder, that's a good thing. If some dungeons become more about the boss mechanics and not just READY-AIM-MELT, that's a good thing. If overland content now requires some attention by the player, that's a good thing.

Yet another fine example of the arrogance among pvp players. Amazing how many pvp players tell pve players that this is good, and then cry how proc sets need to be nerfed.

If pvp players cannot run around in glass cannon builds, its a good thing. If they need to spec for surviving more then damage, its a good thing. If they need to get some self heals and better sustain, its a good thing. If they have to take their head out of their butts and realize they are not the only player of the game, its a good thing. And if they all quit the game, its a omg great thing.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Please stop blaming PVP. This nerf was not all about them. PVPers are just taking the brunt of the backlash because Deadra can't defend themselves on this forum.

No, pvpers are getting the backlash because they have been responsible for most of the nerfs to date, AND specifically this list of pvp changes.

The entire sneak peek is pvp based updates, so yes it is their fault. This is happening because of pvp, yet again....

The trick is that after so long and so many nerfs, the rest of the game is seeing what has been happening and isnt happy.

Keep this one fact in mind:
If every single pvp player quit right now, there would be a notable impact (at best) and the game could continue.

if every single pve player quit today, the game would close down.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If you're a good player you'll adjust.

same could be said for all the pvp players who failed to see a way to beat proc sets or any of the hundreds of other nerfs pve had to deal with.

How many times do we 'need to adjust' because of pvp? the game is three years old, and it still is not balanced. Would really help if someone in zos management could understand the fact they there is no way to balance classes and pvp. no game has ever done it right, and none will ever be able to.

PVE nerd alert

TequilaFire · December 2016

And the usual anti PvP suspects come in and deliver.
36 pages yeah, with most posts by the same people with an agenda.
My solace is the real developers come from games with a PvP back ground and play PvP, although sometimes it doesn't seem like it.

User_Name · December 2016

K4RMA wrote: »

PVE nerd alert

Please stop quoting his drivel, it renders the ignore function useless!

Wifeaggro13 · December 2016

reiverx wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

reiverx wrote: »

Lord_Etrigan wrote: »

I have been reading alot of post in trying to get both sides of the proc set nerfing. On the one side you have PVP jumping for joy as they will still be able to use the proc sets with little to no difference in performance whilst stakking sets that are capable of one-shoting players with 20k health.

On the other side you have PVE players having to go up against one-shotting bosses with over 2 mil health.

Yes, I have heard the arguments about PVE players were able to do Dungeons and trails before the monster and proc sets came along. What most people seem to forget is that the game has evolved and so so has to content. Some will argue this so ask around a chat who wants to run vet Gold Towers or Imperial Prison and listen to the excuses of its their turn to do the dishes.
It's not that its so hard (OK, it is as I have seen many a rage quit.LOL),but makes you feel like you have just worked your butt of to get a monster piece that has a training trait ( yeah it sucks, I know). Even with monster sets there is still a lot of mecanics you need to know before you can bring that boss down and by nerfing PVE you are making it even harder to the point were no one is going to be interested in doing vet or even trail except for the elite among us.

Now lets put the shoe on the other foot. PVP: lets take of impen trait and for good cause nerf those poison, vipers, Jesus beams, two handed abilities....(you get my drift) and lets see if PVP players can still perform the way that they do.

Now you tell me who is getting the short end of the straw?

PVP did when they introduced all of those new sets. If PVE suffered the same way that PVP has, there would be a mass exodus from the game.

It really is that bad.

And it's not the PVP crowd who are making the decisions. I'm all for separating abilities and gear depending on which environment you're in. No PVPer with half a brain wants to see PVE wrecked the way that PVP has been for pretty much every update since IC.

Lemme put this in simple terms you'll understand @reiverx

This wont solve your problem. A dude wearing viper, red mountain and Veli will still do upwards of 10 K through the sheer volume of procs. Multiply it by five and that's still bad. This solves nothing.

And PVE isn't yours to *** with. We dont want this change. Your not helping us, stop pretending your the lightbringer trying to spread enlightenment to a disraught people.

Your a Conqueror, tramping the native people for your own greed. Stop acting like a savior on our behalf. The people yelling about how proc sets suck in PVE, usually dont PVE. So little about a build revolves around these proc sets that anyone who does think they do is provibly stupid.

So stop. Stop trying to 'save us from ourselves' or some such nonsense. We see right through it.

Jesus Christ dude. I'm on your side. I PVE half the time. I do the undaunted pledges every day. Did you just pick out random phrases from a lucky bag because they look cool?

he is always angry and passively abussive. when you confront him with facts he berates you. he just wants to argue ignore him and dont respoind back he will find another to argue with

mr_runaway_666b16_ESO · December 2016

why not just make a set that reduces proc damage by 40% on the 5th piece to counter proc sets in pvp

MyNameIsElias · December 2016

On reddit someone claims that pts is on the 5th next week

https://www.reddit.com/r/elderscrollsonline/comments/5lax95/pts_update_with_housing_on_5th_january/

I believe this is the post he's talking about on ESO UI http://www.esoui.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6711

lucky_Sage · December 2016

DPShiro wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

Mako1132 wrote: »

You have to be kidding me. Every update in this game's history has catered to PvE (even the imperial city).

Your going to try and tell us that IC was a PVE update? In the middle of pvp land, and has pvp there? Get real
It is pvp content with pve elements, just the same as cyrodil. Any zone where there is pvp is a pvp zone. You can choose not to go after other people, but you cannot prevent them from attacking you means it is pvp. If a player cannot go through the content without some idiot ganking them, then it is pvp.

Mako1132 wrote: »

The game was billed as a PvP game, and the continued neglect ZOS showed to that side is what has run the population down. PvP population is abysmal as is trial/dungeon population compared to where we were before it became obvious ZOS wanted nothing to do with PvP.

This game was not a primary pvp game and anyone who thought that this would prioritize pvp clearly has no idea what elder scrolls has been about. Stop spreading lies, it was not a pvp game.

PVP population has consistently dropped since day 1 because pvp sucks. The reason that it has had continued decline in population is just because once the pve player gets what they need, or decides that dealing with pvp players is not worth their time, they wont go back.

PVP by nature is predatory, and a lot of people lose perspective. Look over this thread and see how many pvp players just dismiss the impact they have on other people. Guess what, pvp isnt as important as you think, and zos knows it.

Zos should continue to downsize pvp. As long as it is joined to pve, this game will continue to suffer.

Mako1132 wrote: »

They show one tiny preview of some PvP changes and PvE players go apeshit because one of them is an overall balance change that requires them to probably use a different gear setup.

That is correct, we do not want our gear made useless to appease the pvp players nor do we want our abilities altered for them.

Why do you feel that you as a pvp player have the right to dismiss the effort and time spent by others?

Why should any of the gear in a MMORPG be based on the smallest subset of players?

Do you see the same thousand names in cyrodil and think that because one instance got pop locked that means it is actually popular? No, they reduce the amount that people can enter to mask the declining numbers. There used to be 20 instances for pvp, and now it is what 4 instance total, lol lol lol. time to cut the last 4 and move on.

Dev wrote: »

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Through 36 pages the fact that only a small handful of replies, like this one, seem to point out that PVE is more imbalanced than PVP, is quite ridiculous..

You mean from the pvp players trying to act like pve players to make this seem more acceptable for the pve players to suffer?
Seriously, look at the profile > comments and scroll through them. The only people who like this are pvpers.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If taking crits away from PVE makes more people have to group up for content that's a good thing. If it makes Maelstrom harder, that's a good thing. If some dungeons become more about the boss mechanics and not just READY-AIM-MELT, that's a good thing. If overland content now requires some attention by the player, that's a good thing.

Yet another fine example of the arrogance among pvp players. Amazing how many pvp players tell pve players that this is good, and then cry how proc sets need to be nerfed.

If pvp players cannot run around in glass cannon builds, its a good thing. If they need to spec for surviving more then damage, its a good thing. If they need to get some self heals and better sustain, its a good thing. If they have to take their head out of their butts and realize they are not the only player of the game, its a good thing. And if they all quit the game, its a omg great thing.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

Please stop blaming PVP. This nerf was not all about them. PVPers are just taking the brunt of the backlash because Deadra can't defend themselves on this forum.

No, pvpers are getting the backlash because they have been responsible for most of the nerfs to date, AND specifically this list of pvp changes.

The entire sneak peek is pvp based updates, so yes it is their fault. This is happening because of pvp, yet again....

The trick is that after so long and so many nerfs, the rest of the game is seeing what has been happening and isnt happy.

Keep this one fact in mind:
If every single pvp player quit right now, there would be a notable impact (at best) and the game could continue.

if every single pve player quit today, the game would close down.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

If you're a good player you'll adjust.

same could be said for all the pvp players who failed to see a way to beat proc sets or any of the hundreds of other nerfs pve had to deal with.

How many times do we 'need to adjust' because of pvp? the game is three years old, and it still is not balanced. Would really help if someone in zos management could understand the fact they there is no way to balance classes and pvp. no game has ever done it right, and none will ever be able to.

Very well said, agree with everything.

go look at all the early trailer is we can support 300 players on screen killing each other when pre launch pvp was my aspect
and if pve was balanced a player couldn't solo no 4 man content

lucky_Sage · December 2016

Clarkieson wrote: »

User_Name wrote: »

Clarkieson wrote: »

Paneross wrote: »

People be acting like their gear has 100% crit chance on it.

Most pvp players run impenetrable and have low crit chance anyway

It adversely effects pve builds who run high crit builds

The nerf in pvp means almost nothing, tooltip values of procs will not change they will still do decent damage for a player in all impenetrable gear since they hardly crit at all anyway

I think that's why people should stop bringing PVP into this.

This is a PVE-fix.

Far more drastic measures are required to fix some sets/combos in PVP, and I wager we will see those fairly soon, thankfully.

Pve is broken?

Why? How?

Some pve is difficult enough already for some players and its broken?

Wow, im truly baffled now

wouldn't be like that if people didn't hold hands of players pve is easy only hard one is vtmol and all vet dungeons are facerolled cause player deal way to much dmg when a boss has 4 stages and you only see stage one there is a problem

Doctordarkspawn · December 2016

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

But dont expect pvpers to not respond to being called whiners in this thread numerous times. This is not what one pvper asked for

Considering that the pvp players have been crying for the proc sets to get nerfed since 1t, yes, this is what you asked for.
No, you didnt get to choose how the gear was nerfed, but this update is the effect of the constant whining from pvp.

The simple reality is that pvp ruins mmorpgs far more then they ever contribute. PVP has done absolutely nothing to help eso. all the money spent in these craptastic balance updates, the time wasted in design/redesign and constant testing means that there is less net new content which leads to every mmorpg's death...

For 14 years, the name Elder Scrolls meant a good rpg with tons of content and rich storylines...
For the last 3 years, the name Elder Scrolls Online means broken content, buggy quests & abilities, rollbacks, and stupid nerfs because of pvp...

HEADLINE!

Entitled PvEOnly player doesn't realize that the nerf wasn't just directed at PvP. Also doesn't realize that he's losing, at max, about 2.5-3k dps with all BIS gear!

Grothdarr's is Overperforming. It's going to be adjusted. Adapt, just like everyone else.

@Jamini

I'm curious. In what way is it overperforming? And why does the nerf it gets hit with need to make Bogdan crapper than it allready is?

Grothdar adds like 8% of your dps on it's own and thats on a high 45k+ dps build, thats not taking into account the aoe potential is provides, most pve builds only have few aoe skills apart from mag dk, wall of elements + another (usually class skill). The grothdarr proc alone add 20-30% more aoe damage than a build would normally have.

The nerf will make you lose 1-2k dps or roughly around 2.5-3.5% so your build won't even feel the single target dps loss.

Also with regards to sets like bogdan, the info available is a sneak peak for all every knows they could of buffed the under performingproc sets like bogdan.

I sevearly doubt, they'll be buffing Bogdan. That set has been invalidated by Chokethorn and just left to die.

My question is, is the 1-2 K nerf that does not solve the problem in the first place need to happen to sate the PVPer outrage that PVE has nice things? And I dont think it does. It's stupid. It's not overperforming, it's performing just fine with content that has been increasingly made to suit higher DPS setups.