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Update 13 - Sneak peak notes
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nordsavage✭✭✭✭✭THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »
Lastly, I think most of this anger is really just rooted in having to find different gear. And to that I say, it's a MMO. That's how they work. If it's OP it'll get nerfed.
Maybe if it didn't take WEEKS and MONTHS to get just a few items this would not be an issue. There are people who have been running WGT for over year and do have BiS Spell Power Cure sets for example. Think about that with trials and vMA.Edited by nordsavage on January 1, 2017 9:51PMI didn't choose tank life, tank life chose me.2 -
Dev✭✭✭✭Doctordarkspawn wrote: »IF ZOS wants to stop people from soloing four man dungeons, they need to make rigid classes or archetypes with the holy trinity and balance around that.
Anything else reduces the game without solving the problem.
Does anyone really think that the amount people soloing group content is so bad, that zos would rewrite the entire game to stop it?
Would you have gear be class specific as well?
Have the 'non-role' abilities removed from the current classes?
Have each class forced into their 'appropriate' role of stam/mag only?
If they made the classes rigid, it would have the impact:- DKs would lose all damage capability and become pure tank only.
- NB would lose all ranged damage, as they are melee based
- Sorc would lose all melee dmg and could only ranged magicka dps.
- Temp would lose all dps and would be forced into heal only.
- Pretty much all the self heals and mods that way would have to go. No point in having dps with self-heals in a trinity focused game and when the healer is only there to heal.
- every single piece of solo content would have to be evaluated to see if a tank/healer could still be able to clear it.
Basically you would have everyone who plays a: MagDK, MagNB, StamSorc, & StamTemp forced to change into the 'correct' role.. in a game that does not allow class changes and if they added the option would be a crown store ripoff.
Do you have any idea on how this would completely destroy pvp? Dont get me wrong, i am for anything that destroys or causes the removal of pvp from the game, but even i wouldn't advise for tighter class structure. Classes are the very thing that prevents a balanced pvp.
And of course, the one fundamental flaw with this type of change: The current 'sneaky, one shot glass cannon build that everyone hates, is the exact type of build a NB is supposed to be using. So instead of say 1/3 of the nb population running gank builds, you would want to force them all into it?
It would do absolutely nothing but continue to ruin the game for every non-pvp player while at the same time promote the very same behavior that pvp players hate. It would be the same exact thing as this update: Nerf everything so we can tell the pvpers 'we did something' regardless of how fundamentally broken that something would be.
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Dev✭✭✭✭nordsavage wrote: »THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »
Lastly, I think most of this anger is really just rooted in having to find different gear. And to that I say, it's a MMO. That's how they work. If it's OP it'll get nerfed.
Maybe if it didn't take WEEKS and MONTHS to get just a few items this would not be an issue. There are people who have been running WGT for over year and do have BiS Spell Power Cure sets for example. Think about that with trials and vMA.
MMOs tend to force a need to get new gear, but that is net NEW gear, normally from expansions and new content. Even then very few have loot tables polluted this bad. Add the costs of upgrade mats, and these changes become tedious.
Why would we want to play the same content for the same gear every day just to have them change the tool tips.1 -
Sinthrax✭✭✭✭ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »psychotic13 wrote: »You mentioned poisons double proc'ing, but you haven't mentioned viper or selene and there multiple procs? I hope they're getting fixed.
The sneak peak isn't a list of all the patch notes. There's lots more fixes coming.
Soon as everyone drops monster sets cause of this patch..guess what? You going to have to patch again to fix them if you want people to actually use them. You took time to develop them and now making them useless. So, my question is where is the patch to fix this patch since this patch is the patch to fix the last patch? See where I am going???8 -
Sinthrax✭✭✭✭One thing I've learned in this thread is that a lot can't seem to comprehend what they are reading.
Most specifically that this is just a small list of things going into the update. It's not all.
What you don't comprehend from this thread is we do comprehend it. Just because we don't agree with parts of it dont mean we not understanding it. And thanks for letting us know this isn't the full patch notes since that was said days ago.
You basically told us nothing.2 -
Duragon_Darko✭✭✭Like a lot of people on here are already crying about... why must you mess with PvE to balance a PvP problem. Another game comes to mind that did this, and most of our league members left that game. PvE is fine, leave it alone..... I have to admit, the devs do listen to reason, if not to the forums. Thank you for "nameplates", a welcome addition to immersion, as well as the text chat box for PS4, which only comes on the screen when I need it too, and helps this gameplay SO MUCH MORE then without it. THANK YOU for the additions. Very much appreciated.2 -
SnubbS✭✭✭✭✭Dont get me wrong, i am for anything that destroys or causes the removal of pvp from the game, but even i wouldn't advise for tighter class structure. Classes are the very thing that prevents a balanced pvp.
I honestly want to know what you even do in ESO if you aren't PVPing. Unless you're a part of a raid group that's competing for top 5 scores -- I honestly don't get it. Even though the PvP in this game is a laggy, terrible broken mess -- I can't even think of something else to do when I play it.1 -
Mojmir✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭SunfireKnight86 wrote: »Lmao another pvp fix that affects pve. You guys are ***.
@Mojmir For once, I COMPLETELY agree with you. I have agreed with you in the past on things, but not completely. I mean it's nice that PvP'ers are getting something, but I just thought about things more in-depth. And honestly, this is going to hurt the community overall than help.
Lord, you people will say the sky is falling if it rains. You might lose 5% DPS, maybe from where we are now. A place where you can faceroll the hardest PvE content in the game within a month of starting. Jesus. If it's so odious to you people, leave. You don't actually have to play the game if you think it's so horrible and the team is such ***.
Annnnnd you missed the point. If your gonna defend zos, don't do it half-assed, they can do that on their own.2 -
aetherial_heavenn✭✭✭✭✭How does a removal of multiple crit procs of these sets 'ruin PVE'?
They are NOT REMOVING THE PROCS OR THE SETS, just the crits and the stacked procs that were clearly unintentional.
In my experience, when a game becomes skewed towards being gear dependent rather than skill based (ie the content in PvE starts to be balanced around eltist /grind to get OP gear sets...like stacking veludreth/viper) it gets even more grindy as time goes on, and the divide between relaxed playstyles enjoying the game and mini-maxers enjoying the challenge gets worse and worse.
The only people who are adversely affected by these changes, in my opinion are those who built their entire PvP around their armour killing other players who had no ability to respond/react/defend against multiple poison procs plus the damage ones all critting.....Hope this change fixes vipers and selene too... Now, they'll just have to learn to play using their skills, rather than their gear, to do damage. And to avoid the destro ultimate by moving and blocking.
1. People completed all the content, including 4 person content, solo without these multi crit proc sets. Even vet WGT!
2. This PvE content hasn't changed in difficulty. So there is no need to complain. You can still do it all (except possibly vet trials) in crafted gear. So don't grind if you don't want to.
3. The sets still do massive damage to monsters: players just won't be able to rely on insane burst multiple crits to solo stuff intended for groups. It just puts PvEers on more equal terms with the mobs and rebalances it...bosses can't crit, let alone multi crit? Why should you?
4. PvP is part of the game. All PvPers I know do the PvE content for the sets. This whining about 'them versus us' is an artificial construct perpetrated by a handful of forum warriors who blame any fix of imbalance on PvPers whining. PvPers notice the broken things first because generally they are pushing the game options to the edge. They discover combinations and create the 'metas' and they also notice the failures/unintended consequences and provide feedback because they care. (See the streamers, for example.)
5. Not all PvEers want to be so OP they can faceroll hard content because they got lucky with the RNG and got geared. Most PvEers want to play the game, get challenged, and 'get good' by using skills. Or they want to just play the story...and this change certainly won't affect the latter.
Edited by aetherial_heavenn on January 2, 2017 2:58AMQuoted for truth
"In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos3 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭aetherial_heavenn wrote: »How does a removal of multiple crit procs of these sets 'ruin PVE'?
They are NOT REMOVING THE PROCS OR THE SETS, just the crits and the stacked procs that were clearly unintentional.
In my experience, when a game becomes skewed towards being gear dependent rather than skill based (ie the content in PvE starts to be balanced around eltist /grind to get OP gear sets...like stacking veludreth/viper) it gets even more grindy as time goes on, and the divide between relaxed playstyles enjoying the game and mini-maxers enjoying the challenge gets worse and worse.
The only people who are adversely affected by these changes, in my opinion are those who built their entire PvP around their armour killing other players who had no ability to respond/react/defend against multiple poison procs plus the damage ones all critting.....Hope this change fixes vipers and selene too... Now, they'll just have to learn to play using their skills, rather than their gear, to do damage. And to avoid the destro ultimate by moving and blocking.
1. People completed all the content, including 4 person content, solo without these multi crit proc sets. Even vet WGT!
2. This PvE content hasn't changed in difficulty. So there is no need to complain. You can still do it all (except possibly vet trials) in crafted gear. So don't grind if you don't want to.
3. The sets still do massive damage to monsters: players just won't be able to rely on insane burst multiple crits to solo stuff intended for groups. It just puts PvEers on more equal terms with the mobs and rebalances it...bosses can't crit, let alone multi crit? Why should you?
4. PvP is part of the game. All PvPers I know do the PvE content for the sets. This whining about 'them versus us' is an artificial construct perpetrated by a handful of forum warriors who blame any fix of imbalance on PvPers whining. PvPers notice the broken things first because generally they are pushing the game options to the edge. They discover combinations and create the 'metas' and they also notice the failures/unintended consequences and provide feedback because they care. (See the streamers, for example.)
5. Not all PvEers want to be so OP they can faceroll hard content because they got lucky with the RNG and got geared. Most PvEers want to play the game, get challenged, and 'get good' by using skills. Or they want to just play the story...and this change certainly won't affect the latter.
1.Irrelevent. Nerf is still for the sake of PVP, and it dont even fix what it sets out to.
2. Also irrelevent, see point one.
3. Partially irrelevent, but the fact we're losing 2-4 DPS because a bunch of malicious PVPers will take knocking down PVE down a peg or two instead of geting a fix is bull.
4. You kiddin' me? People have been howling for PVE skills to be nerfed for years, howling for PVE to get the shaft for one game mode emcompassing maybe 20-40% of the game. They'll fight tooth and nail for things like undaunted mettle to get a PVP equivilent, then tear others appart for wanting the same done to vigor and caltrops. To pretend the steriotype does not have a basis in fact is foolish and ignores at least a year of forum history.
4A: A PVPers perspective is not all encompasing. Things work or dont in a PVP context mostly because their gamemode is almost entirely different. Ever seen someone bring a PVE build into Cyro, or a PVP build into a Dungeon? They get laughed at because their build sucks, for the content they have chosen to do.
4B: A streamer's ability to make wide sweeping judgements is also limited. Perspective, man.
5.So we should all suffer because of the hardcore crowd or whoever else things we should? LOL. Dont buy it jack.
@aetherial_heavenn The issue people have with this change is geting nerfed for a PVP balance that does not fix the PVPers issue and pointlessly nerfs us. That's coming from both sides of the isle. Neither side who is informed wants this change.
Edited by Doctordarkspawn on January 2, 2017 4:14AM5 -
BohnT✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭I'd sell my soul if every third enemy in PvE had Viper and Velidreth with ressource drain poisons attached to their weapon.
After 1 minute the whole PvE-Community would flood the forum with their rage and QQ7 -
aetherial_heavenn✭✭✭✭✭
1. So the fact you don't and didn't need these sets to do content in PvE is irrelevant but whining they are nerfed is OK? seems a bit weird, logic wise to meDoctordarkspawn wrote: »1.Irrelevent. Nerf is still for the sake of PVP, and it dont even fix what it sets out to.
2. Also irrelevent, see point one.
3. Partially irrelevent, but the fact we're losing 2-4 DPS because a bunch of malicious PVPers will take knocking down PVE down a peg or two instead of geting a fix is bull.
4. You kiddin' me? People have been howling for PVE skills to be nerfed for years, howling for PVE to get the shaft for one game mode emcompassing maybe 20-40% of the game. They'll fight tooth and nail for things like undaunted mettle to get a PVP equivilent, then tear others appart for wanting the same done to vigor and caltrops. To pretend the steriotype does not have a basis in fact is foolish and ignores at least a year of forum history.
4A: A PVPers perspective is not all encompasing. Things work or dont in a PVP context mostly because their gamemode is almost entirely different. Ever seen someone bring a PVE build into Cyro, or a PVP build into a Dungeon? They get laughed at because their build sucks, for the content they have chosen to do.
4B: A streamer's ability to make wide sweeping judgements is also limited. Perspective, man.
5.So we should all suffer because of the hardcore crowd or whoever else things we should? LOL. Dont buy it jack.
@aetherial_heavenn The issue people have with this change is geting nerfed for a PVP balance that does not fix the PVPers issue and pointlessly nerfs us. That's coming from both sides of the isle. Neither side who is informed wants this change.
2. Ditto.
3. 2-4 DPS breaks PvE ?
4. Both sides whine.
4a The issue here is PvE sets brought to PvP break it. Blame zos for making the sets. Don't blame zos for trying to fix a broken mechanic. This fix isn't great but it's better than none and it acknowledges the issue.
4b I am not a man. Please avoid male gender specific language when talking to the women who play this game. It is exclusionary and insulting.
5 i think you missed my point...which was this move towards gear dependancy makes the hardcore crowd even more divided from the normal game. But whatever.
I play both sides. As it stands all the players on both sides I know want this change. Except proc set gankers. It doesn't affect my PvE guild (it's the crit stacking that is being removed... not the sets)<edited for sense>
and as it stands it makes PvP impossible for new players. (28k hits from multple procs and crits in one shot..they don't know what hit them)
Please inform me: You still haven't explained how 2-3 dps reduction (your words) or removing multiple crits stacking is a game breaking nerf to PvE. I'm going to leave it there. Clearly we will not agree.
Edited by aetherial_heavenn on January 2, 2017 4:53AMQuoted for truth
"In my experience, the elite ones have not been very toxic, and the toxic ones not very elite." WrathOfInnos6 -
Acrolas✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭39 pages later and I'm still more concerned that the title and OP both misspell peek.
http://theoatmeal.com/comics/sneak_peekEdited by Acrolas on January 2, 2017 5:10AMsigning off2 -
Sigma957✭✭✭✭✭We will find out all tuesday (wednesday my time lol )to see if the whiners/ doomsayers have any relevance and what's been buffed/ whats been nerfed beside what we already know.0 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭aetherial_heavenn wrote: »
1. So the fact you don't and didn't need these sets to do content in PvE is irrelevant but whining they are nerfed is OK? seems a bit weird, logic wise to meDoctordarkspawn wrote: »1.Irrelevent. Nerf is still for the sake of PVP, and it dont even fix what it sets out to.
2. Also irrelevent, see point one.
3. Partially irrelevent, but the fact we're losing 2-4 DPS because a bunch of malicious PVPers will take knocking down PVE down a peg or two instead of geting a fix is bull.
4. You kiddin' me? People have been howling for PVE skills to be nerfed for years, howling for PVE to get the shaft for one game mode emcompassing maybe 20-40% of the game. They'll fight tooth and nail for things like undaunted mettle to get a PVP equivilent, then tear others appart for wanting the same done to vigor and caltrops. To pretend the steriotype does not have a basis in fact is foolish and ignores at least a year of forum history.
4A: A PVPers perspective is not all encompasing. Things work or dont in a PVP context mostly because their gamemode is almost entirely different. Ever seen someone bring a PVE build into Cyro, or a PVP build into a Dungeon? They get laughed at because their build sucks, for the content they have chosen to do.
4B: A streamer's ability to make wide sweeping judgements is also limited. Perspective, man.
5.So we should all suffer because of the hardcore crowd or whoever else things we should? LOL. Dont buy it jack.
@aetherial_heavenn The issue people have with this change is geting nerfed for a PVP balance that does not fix the PVPers issue and pointlessly nerfs us. That's coming from both sides of the isle. Neither side who is informed wants this change.
2. Ditto.
3. 2-4 DPS breaks PvE ?
4. Both sides whine.
4a The issue here is PvE sets brought to PvP break it. Blame zos for making the sets. Don't blame zos for trying to fix a broken mechanic. This fix isn't great but it's better than none and it acknowledges the issue.
4b I am not a man. Please avoid male gender specific language when talking to the women who play this game. It is exclusionary and insulting.
5 i think you missed my point...which was this move towards gear dependancy makes the hardcore crowd even more divided from the normal game. But whatever.
I play both sides. As it stands all the players on both sides I know want this change. Except proc set gankers. It doesn't affect my PvE guild (it's the crit stacking that is being removed... not the sets)<edited for sense>
and as it stands it makes PvP impossible for new players. (28k hits from multple procs and crits in one shot..they don't know what hit them)
Please inform me: You still haven't explained how 2-3 dps reduction (your words) or removing multiple crits stacking is a game breaking nerf to PvE. I'm going to leave it there. Clearly we will not agree.
I didn't explain how it's going to break PVE, because It's not going to. And I'm not conforming to your strawman and I didn't sign on to hold the position you appear to think I hold. A few more points.
Edit: No it's not gonna break PVE anymore than the fear-hype train will. But it -is- a pointless nerf much like the changes to heavy armor and just because it's not hurting anyone greatly does not mean we need to shut up. It's a bad change, to me and many others. Is it gonna break PVE? No. But that dont mean we gotta lay down the pitchforks.
4. Yes, both sides disagree with you. Certain people do anyway.
4A. And I'm in favor of fixing that issue and I never said I wasn't. A simple timer when one set procs that stops any others from procing in set timeframe, maybe a few seconds, would solve the issue and largely leave PVE untouched. Both sides of the isle have suggested this.
4B. Inset laughing gif here. I'm too lazy. I'll continue to use the male honorifics and if you choose to take that as exclusionary, please do. I dont cave for bullies, whether their asking for my lunch money or my speech in a yell or a whisper. Extortion is still extortion, even if you've persuaded the victim their paying for a service, or respecting others.
5. If that was your point, state it clearly. We can actually agree on that much.
You seem to have come here spoiling for a fight. Not to discuss the issue. So please, leave it there, and dont come in here to bash the people trying to discuss the issue, discuss the issue.Edited by Doctordarkspawn on January 2, 2017 5:20AM0 -
Dev✭✭✭✭Dont get me wrong, i am for anything that destroys or causes the removal of pvp from the game, but even i wouldn't advise for tighter class structure. Classes are the very thing that prevents a balanced pvp.
I honestly want to know what you even do in ESO if you aren't PVPing. Unless you're a part of a raid group that's competing for top 5 scores -- I honestly don't get it. Even though the PvP in this game is a laggy, terrible broken mess -- I can't even think of something else to do when I play it.
The other 95% of the game content, and i am being generous giving pvp 5%.Edited by Dev on January 2, 2017 6:06AM8 -
MasterBiffpudwellSoul ShrivenSo, in not so many words, the cry babies that live in Cyrodiil get to screw up the rest of the game because they are tired of getting killed by proc sets? Sounds typical. Bottom line is the proc sets were doing exactly what they were suppose to do. Kill the enemy. Is that not the very essence of "combat", to kill the enemy by whatever means at your disposal? Take away the critical damage from a proc set and why bother working your ass off to get a good set of gear put together. Just one more blunder in a string of blunders that I suspect will be never-ending. Granted there is no way to keep everyone happy but don't burn the cart because it has a squeaky wheel.4
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Shinkhan✭✭ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?
Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.
The key word here is "StamSorc" !! Krag were never used for the damage is does only but for the combo damage+penetration so what will happen to magika proc sets ???? that IS a nerf to the ground !0 -
Torbschka✭✭✭✭Proc sets cant crit wouldnt mean anything for me as a sorc main, shields cant be critted anyway and proc sets will destroy them in a second still.
Hope for something else, light armor buffs etc0 -
cpuScientist✭✭✭✭✭
✭It's a 28% give or take on the sets. Which equates to about a 3% nerf in single target damage. It will still be bis in truth, especially if the fights contain slot of adds. Or for say the gauntlet or twins in VMoL. The sets are not getting ruined. They already are not affected by max stats or spell/weapon damage, so they removed CRIT. This nerfs light and medium users with this set more than heavy users in PvP as their crits were already lower. However this was not a nerf to PvP it was for PvE. ZOS feels they are overperforming, and they kind of are tbh, grothdar accounted for about 10% DPS bump, thats as much as some 5 piece sets add to your DPS. However I would've rathered they do this a different way. But we will just wait and see.2 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭Dont get me wrong, i am for anything that destroys or causes the removal of pvp from the game, but even i wouldn't advise for tighter class structure. Classes are the very thing that prevents a balanced pvp.
I honestly want to know what you even do in ESO if you aren't PVPing. Unless you're a part of a raid group that's competing for top 5 scores -- I honestly don't get it. Even though the PvP in this game is a laggy, terrible broken mess -- I can't even think of something else to do when I play it.
The other 95% of the game content, and i am being generous giving pvp 5%.
As always you give no data to back up your numbers claim and obviously since you don't PvP you have never seen how many actually do play.
The lead developers do PvP so I am glad you will be disappointed as there will be no PvP removal.
What's with the Dev handle anyway? Hope it is short for Devon as not impressed you try to act like a developer.
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Dev✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »I honestly want to know what you even do in ESO if you aren't PVPing. Unless you're a part of a raid group that's competing for top 5 scores -- I honestly don't get it. Even though the PvP in this game is a laggy, terrible broken mess -- I can't even think of something else to do when I play it.
The other 95% of the game content, and i am being generous giving pvp 5%.
As always you give no data to back up your numbers claim and obviously since you don't PvP you have never seen how many actually do play.
The lead developers do PvP so I am glad you will be disappointed as there will be no PvP removal.
What's with the Dev handle anyway? Hope it is short for Devon as not impressed you try to act like a developer.
An ignorant response at best.... considering i was specifically asked what I did in the game and not about the populations.
Fact is there are what 5 zones per alliance, so 15 zones there, plus coldharbor and the 3 expansion zones, for a total of 19 zones and that is assuming i didnt forget any, versus two zones... factor in all the quests in cyrodil as that is PVE content in a pvp zone, the reality is maybe 2% of the content in the entire game if even that is pvp.
I love how the pvp players want to try and act like i never entered the zone... did it ever occur to you that most of my animosity towards pvp is because how bad it was implemented? My chars are in AD, and every time i entered cyrodil, it is always a mess. Red and blue own 80% of the map, AD is barely holding onto any of the map, and there is some type of moronic obsession with sej bridge... FFS the entire AD could be on the bridge and they would still lose it... complete and utter garbage. I loved the AD story line, but seriously they cant get it together for more then 2 minutes in cyrodil... Now i am sure there are some organized people who run something, but the 20 or so times i was there, i didnt see it.
The fact i love is how most of the pvp players want to say that they wanted to pvp the 'Elder Scrolls' way, but have completely overlooked that Elder Scrolls meant play as you want, aka no classes to balance. The entire game would have been much better without classes... The point is that it is not 'PVPing in an elder scrolls game' as much as it is 'pvping in a typical & broken rpg format with an elder scrolls theme'. Any and all games that try to mix the PVE trinity and pvp are doomed to suck.
This is made very apparent in ESO since there is such a divide in builds for pvp vs PVE. A LA Mag sorc doesnt work very well in pvp does it, nor would a HA Mag sorc work at all in PVE, especially with all the meta FoTM crap. They have forced the decision to either be a pvp or PVE build with the restrictions to change attributes, CP, and skills. You cant just swap to whatever content you want when it costs over 25k per swap to do it right... its not worth it nor is it fun.
The point you brought up about the developers playing pvp: The biggest reason eso is failing is that those developers are too worried about buffing and protecting their enjoyment to maintain this as a good game. A lot of PVE players are sick and tired of the lazy development practices and are not going to tolerate the 'more of the same' forever. So if they want to focus on what they enjoy in a game as opposed to producing a product that entices customers to stay, based on demographics and 'where the money comes from', then they deserve to be replaced.
Bottom line is that we shouldn't be paying so that the developers can have fun after work. Their job is to keep us, the customers happy after the customers have finished their day job. The sooner ZOS realizes this, the less they will have a need for crown store/cash grabbing crates and could actually provide some decent end game content.
As for my name, seriously is the best you can do is make fun of my name.... what is this, grade school?2 -
If you are worried about the hours and hours you spent playing the same rote dungeon boss mechanics to get some specific piece of gear that would magically make you a great player, next time try spending those hours and hours actually learning how to play with your class and weapon abilities in a useful, interesting and skillful way.Hana Fireflower cp561 Dunmer Magblade (EP)
Sap-Drinker cp561 Argonian Nightblade Magtank (EP)
Dus cp561 Orc Stam Sorc (DC)
The Third Shadow level 40 Khajit Nightblade (AD)0 -
leepalmer95✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »@ZOS_RichLambert do you use impen in pvp? why did you nerf proc sets in pve to the ground and only marginally made them weaker on pvp?
Yep I use impen - even with 7 impen, crits still hurt. On the PVE side, It's about a 7-8% nerf to sustain from my internal testing. (using Viper, Red Mountain and Kra on my stam sorc) I wouldn't call that nerfed into the ground.
The key word here is "StamSorc" !! Krag were never used for the damage is does only but for the combo damage+penetration so what will happen to magika proc sets ???? that IS a nerf to the ground !
Erm what?PS4 EU DC
Current CP : 756+
I have every character level 50, both a magicka and stamina version.
RIP my effort to get 5x v16 characters...0 -
TequilaFire✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »I honestly want to know what you even do in ESO if you aren't PVPing. Unless you're a part of a raid group that's competing for top 5 scores -- I honestly don't get it. Even though the PvP in this game is a laggy, terrible broken mess -- I can't even think of something else to do when I play it.
The other 95% of the game content, and i am being generous giving pvp 5%.
As always you give no data to back up your numbers claim and obviously since you don't PvP you have never seen how many actually do play.
The lead developers do PvP so I am glad you will be disappointed as there will be no PvP removal.
What's with the Dev handle anyway? Hope it is short for Devon as not impressed you try to act like a developer.
An ignorant response at best.... considering i was specifically asked what I did in the game and not about the populations.
Fact is there are what 5 zones per alliance, so 15 zones there, plus coldharbor and the 3 expansion zones, for a total of 19 zones and that is assuming i didnt forget any, versus two zones... factor in all the quests in cyrodil as that is PVE content in a pvp zone, the reality is maybe 2% of the content in the entire game if even that is pvp.
I love how the pvp players want to try and act like i never entered the zone... did it ever occur to you that most of my animosity towards pvp is because how bad it was implemented? My chars are in AD, and every time i entered cyrodil, it is always a mess. Red and blue own 80% of the map, AD is barely holding onto any of the map, and there is some type of moronic obsession with sej bridge... FFS the entire AD could be on the bridge and they would still lose it... complete and utter garbage. I loved the AD story line, but seriously they cant get it together for more then 2 minutes in cyrodil... Now i am sure there are some organized people who run something, but the 20 or so times i was there, i didnt see it.
The fact i love is how most of the pvp players want to say that they wanted to pvp the 'Elder Scrolls' way, but have completely overlooked that Elder Scrolls meant play as you want, aka no classes to balance. The entire game would have been much better without classes... The point is that it is not 'PVPing in an elder scrolls game' as much as it is 'pvping in a typical & broken rpg format with an elder scrolls theme'. Any and all games that try to mix the PVE trinity and pvp are doomed to suck.
This is made very apparent in ESO since there is such a divide in builds for pvp vs PVE. A LA Mag sorc doesnt work very well in pvp does it, nor would a HA Mag sorc work at all in PVE, especially with all the meta FoTM crap. They have forced the decision to either be a pvp or PVE build with the restrictions to change attributes, CP, and skills. You cant just swap to whatever content you want when it costs over 25k per swap to do it right... its not worth it nor is it fun.
The point you brought up about the developers playing pvp: The biggest reason eso is failing is that those developers are too worried about buffing and protecting their enjoyment to maintain this as a good game. A lot of PVE players are sick and tired of the lazy development practices and are not going to tolerate the 'more of the same' forever. So if they want to focus on what they enjoy in a game as opposed to producing a product that entices customers to stay, based on demographics and 'where the money comes from', then they deserve to be replaced.
Bottom line is that we shouldn't be paying so that the developers can have fun after work. Their job is to keep us, the customers happy after the customers have finished their day job. The sooner ZOS realizes this, the less they will have a need for crown store/cash grabbing crates and could actually provide some decent end game content.
As for my name, seriously is the best you can do is make fun of my name.... what is this, grade school?
Wall of text, got under your skin huh?
Sorry bud a lot of us paid for a game with both PvE and PvP in it and our money is just as good as yours, in other words
PvP players are customers just the same as you. (If you even play this game at all.)
You have a hate and fixation on getting rid of PvP a mode lot of us enjoy that seems to border on sickness.
Don't like it don't play it if you are so afraid of interacting with real players.
One more thing, developers are human beings and passionate gamers as well otherwise they would not be game developers in the first place. Who are you to tell them what to do after work.
Bottom line is PvP is in the game whether you like it or not.
Edited by TequilaFire on January 3, 2017 12:16AM3 -
S1ipperyJim✭✭✭✭✭People already wear full impen armor in PVP, which means your crit nerf is going to adversely effect PVE far worse and do next to nothing for PVP - the area it is meant to fix. Another face palm ZOS.3 -
Doctordarkspawn✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭TequilaFire wrote: »TequilaFire wrote: »I honestly want to know what you even do in ESO if you aren't PVPing. Unless you're a part of a raid group that's competing for top 5 scores -- I honestly don't get it. Even though the PvP in this game is a laggy, terrible broken mess -- I can't even think of something else to do when I play it.
The other 95% of the game content, and i am being generous giving pvp 5%.
As always you give no data to back up your numbers claim and obviously since you don't PvP you have never seen how many actually do play.
The lead developers do PvP so I am glad you will be disappointed as there will be no PvP removal.
What's with the Dev handle anyway? Hope it is short for Devon as not impressed you try to act like a developer.
An ignorant response at best.... considering i was specifically asked what I did in the game and not about the populations.
Fact is there are what 5 zones per alliance, so 15 zones there, plus coldharbor and the 3 expansion zones, for a total of 19 zones and that is assuming i didnt forget any, versus two zones... factor in all the quests in cyrodil as that is PVE content in a pvp zone, the reality is maybe 2% of the content in the entire game if even that is pvp.
I love how the pvp players want to try and act like i never entered the zone... did it ever occur to you that most of my animosity towards pvp is because how bad it was implemented? My chars are in AD, and every time i entered cyrodil, it is always a mess. Red and blue own 80% of the map, AD is barely holding onto any of the map, and there is some type of moronic obsession with sej bridge... FFS the entire AD could be on the bridge and they would still lose it... complete and utter garbage. I loved the AD story line, but seriously they cant get it together for more then 2 minutes in cyrodil... Now i am sure there are some organized people who run something, but the 20 or so times i was there, i didnt see it.
The fact i love is how most of the pvp players want to say that they wanted to pvp the 'Elder Scrolls' way, but have completely overlooked that Elder Scrolls meant play as you want, aka no classes to balance. The entire game would have been much better without classes... The point is that it is not 'PVPing in an elder scrolls game' as much as it is 'pvping in a typical & broken rpg format with an elder scrolls theme'. Any and all games that try to mix the PVE trinity and pvp are doomed to suck.
This is made very apparent in ESO since there is such a divide in builds for pvp vs PVE. A LA Mag sorc doesnt work very well in pvp does it, nor would a HA Mag sorc work at all in PVE, especially with all the meta FoTM crap. They have forced the decision to either be a pvp or PVE build with the restrictions to change attributes, CP, and skills. You cant just swap to whatever content you want when it costs over 25k per swap to do it right... its not worth it nor is it fun.
The point you brought up about the developers playing pvp: The biggest reason eso is failing is that those developers are too worried about buffing and protecting their enjoyment to maintain this as a good game. A lot of PVE players are sick and tired of the lazy development practices and are not going to tolerate the 'more of the same' forever. So if they want to focus on what they enjoy in a game as opposed to producing a product that entices customers to stay, based on demographics and 'where the money comes from', then they deserve to be replaced.
Bottom line is that we shouldn't be paying so that the developers can have fun after work. Their job is to keep us, the customers happy after the customers have finished their day job. The sooner ZOS realizes this, the less they will have a need for crown store/cash grabbing crates and could actually provide some decent end game content.
As for my name, seriously is the best you can do is make fun of my name.... what is this, grade school?
Wall of text, got under your skin huh?
Sorry bud a lot of us paid for a game with both PvE and PvP in it and our money is just as good as yours, in other words
PvP players are customers just the same as you. (If you even play this game at all.)
You have a hate and fixation on getting rid of PvP a mode lot of us enjoy that seems to border on sickness.
Don't like it don't play it if you are so afraid of interacting with real players.
One more thing, developers are human beings and passionate gamers as well otherwise they would not be game developers in the first place. Who are you to tell them what to do after work.
Bottom line is PvP is in the game whether you like it or not.
@TequilaFire
That does not mean it needs to monopolize balance, dev time, and everything else. Taking a hatchet to everything to appease one audience that only 20% of the game is built for, is madness.
And sorry to say, if you wanted a PVP experience, far better games than this one would suit.1 -
Actually_Goku✭✭✭✭Great changes and great way of handling the proc issue. Without crit procs in PvP, the sets are not useless but definitely not nearly as powerful as they are now. This preserves the effort people put into farming the gear but makes them much less cheesy then they currently are. Stacking procs may still indeed be powerful but I don't like the idea of restricting a player from gearing the way they want and I think this crit change will do more than enough to dampen stacking procs. Remember, when you stack procs you sacrifice raw stats buffs which are also powerful. Thats the most important aspect of this change in my view. It makes stacking pen or raw stats equally viable options to stacking proc sets (which i honestly believe is already the case in many instances). In other words, there will be good balance in what builds are viable and how people want to play their characters.
As far as PvE whiners go, I honestly dont care to hear it. Gonna tell you the same thing I tell people who rely on proc sets in PvP: stop crutching on procs. Proc sets on live are op and carry players both in PvP and PvE...unless you wanna sit here and argue that monster sets hitting as hard as ultimates and grothdar ticking for 4-6k is balanced and reasonable. Before you jump the gun and assume this was done simply to appease PvP players, realize that ZOS probably sees the same logic as I do that proc sets were too powerful in both aspects of the game. Proc sets should supplement, not define builds. And this changes accomplishes exactly that.
Lastly, to the people who want separate profiles for PvP and PvE: hell no. Consistency between the two aspects of the game is very important to me and making the two realms operate differently would be something I'm strongly opposed to.
This
Great post.1