Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

leepalmer95

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

But dont expect pvpers to not respond to being called whiners in this thread numerous times. This is not what one pvper asked for

Considering that the pvp players have been crying for the proc sets to get nerfed since 1t, yes, this is what you asked for.
No, you didnt get to choose how the gear was nerfed, but this update is the effect of the constant whining from pvp.

The simple reality is that pvp ruins mmorpgs far more then they ever contribute. PVP has done absolutely nothing to help eso. all the money spent in these craptastic balance updates, the time wasted in design/redesign and constant testing means that there is less net new content which leads to every mmorpg's death...

For 14 years, the name Elder Scrolls meant a good rpg with tons of content and rich storylines...
For the last 3 years, the name Elder Scrolls Online means broken content, buggy quests & abilities, rollbacks, and stupid nerfs because of pvp...

HEADLINE!

Entitled PvEOnly player doesn't realize that the nerf wasn't just directed at PvP. Also doesn't realize that he's losing, at max, about 2.5-3k dps with all BIS gear!

Grothdarr's is Overperforming. It's going to be adjusted. Adapt, just like everyone else.

@Jamini

I'm curious. In what way is it overperforming? And why does the nerf it gets hit with need to make Bogdan crapper than it allready is?

Grothdar adds like 8% of your dps on it's own and thats on a high 45k+ dps build, thats not taking into account the aoe potential is provides, most pve builds only have few aoe skills apart from mag dk, wall of elements + another (usually class skill). The grothdarr proc alone add 20-30% more aoe damage than a build would normally have.

The nerf will make you lose 1-2k dps or roughly around 2.5-3.5% so your build won't even feel the single target dps loss.

Also with regards to sets like bogdan, the info available is a sneak peak for all every knows they could of buffed the under performingproc sets like bogdan.

I sevearly doubt, they'll be buffing Bogdan. That set has been invalidated by Chokethorn and just left to die.

My question is, is the 1-2 K nerf that does not solve the problem in the first place need to happen to sate the PVPer outrage that PVE has nice things? And I dont think it does. It's stupid. It's not overperforming, it's performing just fine with content that has been increasingly made to suit higher DPS setups.

You don't seem to think it's overperforming , zos thinks otherwise.

Doctordarkspawn

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

Jamini wrote: »

Dev wrote: »

Darnathian wrote: »

But dont expect pvpers to not respond to being called whiners in this thread numerous times. This is not what one pvper asked for

Considering that the pvp players have been crying for the proc sets to get nerfed since 1t, yes, this is what you asked for.
No, you didnt get to choose how the gear was nerfed, but this update is the effect of the constant whining from pvp.

The simple reality is that pvp ruins mmorpgs far more then they ever contribute. PVP has done absolutely nothing to help eso. all the money spent in these craptastic balance updates, the time wasted in design/redesign and constant testing means that there is less net new content which leads to every mmorpg's death...

For 14 years, the name Elder Scrolls meant a good rpg with tons of content and rich storylines...
For the last 3 years, the name Elder Scrolls Online means broken content, buggy quests & abilities, rollbacks, and stupid nerfs because of pvp...

HEADLINE!

Entitled PvEOnly player doesn't realize that the nerf wasn't just directed at PvP. Also doesn't realize that he's losing, at max, about 2.5-3k dps with all BIS gear!

Grothdarr's is Overperforming. It's going to be adjusted. Adapt, just like everyone else.

@Jamini

I'm curious. In what way is it overperforming? And why does the nerf it gets hit with need to make Bogdan crapper than it allready is?

Grothdar adds like 8% of your dps on it's own and thats on a high 45k+ dps build, thats not taking into account the aoe potential is provides, most pve builds only have few aoe skills apart from mag dk, wall of elements + another (usually class skill). The grothdarr proc alone add 20-30% more aoe damage than a build would normally have.

The nerf will make you lose 1-2k dps or roughly around 2.5-3.5% so your build won't even feel the single target dps loss.

Also with regards to sets like bogdan, the info available is a sneak peak for all every knows they could of buffed the under performingproc sets like bogdan.

I sevearly doubt, they'll be buffing Bogdan. That set has been invalidated by Chokethorn and just left to die.

My question is, is the 1-2 K nerf that does not solve the problem in the first place need to happen to sate the PVPer outrage that PVE has nice things? And I dont think it does. It's stupid. It's not overperforming, it's performing just fine with content that has been increasingly made to suit higher DPS setups.

You don't seem to think it's overperforming , zos thinks otherwise.

And I think their wrong. Wrong for nerfing something nobody was complaining about until it was going to screw over people they wanted to screw over, and wrong for doing it in the first place when it wont fix anything.

And I'm not going to stop saying that.

Yuke

The real drama is that those changes wont help to improve oneshot meta in pvp at all.

A tripple proc without crit still gonna hit you for 12-14k damage in addition. IF you wear heavy armor.

This is probably the laziest change ive ever read regarding balancing. Greedymax should be ashamed. First no more Gametime cards, next the 40 euro mount and then this ridiculous sneak peak. Seems they are even proud of their mental abilities displayed there.

But i dont want to be a ***. Here is the solution:

Just make a new set category called "procerinos" or whatever. Put all proc sets into that category and allow players to just use ONE set out of that category. No more stacking them, problem solved. You are ***_ing welcome.

HairyFairy

Question, and I'm sure this has been asked, but can you code proc sets so that they still crit in PVE settings, and just no crits in Cyrodiil? that would make the PVE players happy and the PVP players happy. two birds, one big ass stone likely @ZOS_RichLambert

Also,

concerning the bags.

It is too easy to farm the armor set pieces, i can get a full impen set in just hours of play, especially w/ other friends.

So, I think that these bags will be pretty much useless, and won't be much sought after.
Unless, YOU give us a chance at the weapons and purple/gold jewelery as well. in bags that cost a lot more AP perhaps to balance it out.

Those are the bags that i would farm AP for.

PVE'ers have their farming and we have to farm those bosses, give us a good farm for gear again for the love of god.

Thanks homies,
The Hairiest of all possible Fairies

HairyFairy

All that I want, is to get the gear that I need, w/o leaving Cyrodiil! lol I just want to kill people, not robots. @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_MattFiror

SpAEkus

I've lost track in here, is this actually for next week of Jan 2 2017 or some other date that I missed. Live banners are already up but nothing for PTS yet.

EldritchPenguin

mr_runaway_666b16_ESO wrote: »

why not just make a set that reduces proc damage by 40% on the 5th piece to counter proc sets in pvp

That has got to be the cheapest band-aid solution I've ever heard.

Not to mention that it would kill a whole lot of build diversity, since it would likely become about as mandatory as Impenetrable if you want to have any chance of surviving a gank.

BuddyAces

Can someone just give me an unbiased honest answer to my following question? How much longer is it going to take even a semi competent group to kill vet dungeon bosses? Are we talking like an extra minute or two here or...? Btw, I don't care if this change goes forward. I'm indifferent to it but I just wanted to know.

Y'all think the crying is bad now, wait till they release info that they're also adding a c/d to proc sets

Arthg

PvPers ain't never asked for a PvE nerf.
Yet PvEers blame them for ZOS's decision - the content of which NOBODY knows.

PvEers come a-QQing in throngs - in the exact same way they reproach PvPers for doing (quite legitimately imho).

How about: 1) we wait and see; 2) we blame ZOS when the time comes IF NEED BE; 3) we celebrate the New Year!

THEDKEXPERIENCE

HairyFairy wrote: »

Question, and I'm sure this has been asked, but can you code proc sets so that they still crit in PVE settings, and just no crits in Cyrodiil? that would make the PVE players happy and the PVP players happy. two birds, one big ass stone likely

But there is a logical fallacy in your stance as well as many much more harsh posts on this very thread. ZOS's actions have indicated that they believe PVE is also unbalanced.

It's possible that they think being able to solo group content is a bad thing and this is their response to it.

I've said it before, but PVPers can argue all day amongst themselves about PVP balance. Those that do both can argue the merits between globally balancing the game. PVE only players, however, seem to universally agree that the game is balanced because THEY HAVE NO ONE TO ARGUE WITH! There is no way that Deadra can make forum posts about getting face rolled.

PVE is insanely out of balance. When was the last time you were worried about entering a group delve by yourself? What about the world bosses that are way more than 50% soloable for average 561s?

I know you made a very polite question, but your entire premise assumes something (that PVE doesn't need adjustments) that is simply incorrect.

nordsavage

Arthg wrote: »

PvPers ain't never asked for a PvE nerf.
Yet PvEers blame them for ZOS's decision - the content of which NOBODY knows.

PvEers come a-QQing in throngs - in the exact same way they reproach PvPers for doing (quite legitimately imho).

How about: 1) we wait and see; 2) we blame ZOS when the time comes IF NEED BE; 3) we celebrate the New Year!

We are complaining because PvE is getting a nerf that was aimed at PvP which won't even solve the proc issue. If we wait and see then it will not have any chance of being changed because once it makes it to PTS it is already too late.

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

HairyFairy wrote: »

Question, and I'm sure this has been asked, but can you code proc sets so that they still crit in PVE settings, and just no crits in Cyrodiil? that would make the PVE players happy and the PVP players happy. two birds, one big ass stone likely

But there is a logical fallacy in your stance as well as many much more harsh posts on this very thread. ZOS's actions have indicated that they believe PVE is also unbalanced.

It's possible that they think being able to solo group content is a bad thing and this is their response to it.

I can solo PvE with or without Undaunted Helms. Removing crit is just not the way to go.

MalakithAlamahdi

No crit for proc sets will barely make a difference for PvE, I don't know why people complain about it. If you had to rely on procs to get a decent DPS then your an awfull player to begin with imo. Besides that, you won't even notice the difference in time on bosses with a couple million HP. It's a matter of mere seconds or minutes if most.

xXSilverDragonXx

@WeerW3ir When you start pveing with 400-500 ping during prime time on a daily basis, then you will change your mind about how 'pvp just gain'.

I was just in the most laggy mess I have seen in a game ever in trueflame last night and yeah, ZOS really needs to fix that stat. If I were a PVPer as a norm I would have left this game behind about a week into that nonsense. Why you all stick around and play a broken PVP game is beyond me. Seriously, the only way they will fix it is when people stop playing and they see they get no cash from it.

EldritchPenguin

xXSilverDragonXx wrote: »

@WeerW3ir When you start pveing with 400-500 ping during prime time on a daily basis, then you will change your mind about how 'pvp just gain'.

I was just in the most laggy mess I have seen in a game ever in trueflame last night and yeah, ZOS really needs to fix that stat. If I were a PVPer as a norm I would have left this game behind about a week into that nonsense. Why you all stick around and play a broken PVP game is beyond me. Seriously, the only way they will fix it is when people stop playing and they see they get no cash from it.

Probably because it is the one and only three team, large scale fantasy PvP experience available. I don't think there would be a PvP crowd around if this game's PvP wasn't extremely unique.

EldritchPenguin

Here's my two cents on the crit nerf: I think it's a step in the right direction, if not for the sake of balance, but for the sake of consistency and diversity.

Right now, proc sets use your critical hit chance, the corresponding multiplier, your Champion Points, and some racial passives such as the Dark Elf's Destructive Ancestry. Nothing else. As a result, in their current iteration, proc sets widen the gap between crit builds and non-crit builds, low CP and high CP, and optimal race and unoptimal race. So long as proc sets scale only with these stats (or scale off of them at all), then the game will continue to pigeonhole us into crit builds while also reinforcing the already huge power gap between new and experienced players.

That's just my thoughts on it.

DreadKnight

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

Personally speaking I'd prefer (XBox1) that some of the broken programming is worked on before any of the issues you've mentioned are looked at. What's the point of making changes to sets when players can't even play the game (PVP) on Xbox1? PVE is more reliable, so you're going to Nerf any proc sets I have in PVE, to balance PVP, which I can hardly play because of all the disconnecting/crashing? - that's great guys.

ThoraxtheDark

Valve wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

Does this include the 2-piece monster sets? It's going to affect PvE quite a bit. :L

Critical damage is important in PvE trials for DPS, removing the critical component from these sets (at least the 2-piece monster sets) will prevent them benefiting from the major and minor force buffs and the other critical modifiers (shadow mundus and class passives).

I think this should at least be reconsidered/clarified.

Wouldn't a better change be to add a one second global cooldown for all procs -- this way procs could only happen one second after another proc, which would prevent the ridiculous one shot from one attack followed by multiple simultaneous procs.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Stuck in combat in Cyrodiil
This has been an ongoing issue in Cyrodiil for a long time now – due to the nature of combat in Cyrodiil there were cascading threat issues between players. (i.e. – You fight another player and all the threat they have on them is transferred to you) We’ve changed how threat is transferred between players and when Update 13 goes live, you should always drop combat properly after 6 seconds of ending a battle. Note: If you are grouped with other players and they are actively in combat, you will still be considered in combat as well.

Hopefully this means I can actually mount when I'm in a small group on my healer after fighting! Was always annoying watching everyone else ride away.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Again, this is just a sneak peak... not an exhaustive list. There is a lot more coming in Update 13, including a whole bunch of balance fixes

Hopefully some changes that improve magicka NBs for PvE DPS!

jesus christmas , someone doesn't pvp much

montiferus

DreadKnight wrote: »

@ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_KaiSchober

Personally speaking I'd prefer (XBox1) that some of the broken programming is worked on before any of the issues you've mentioned are looked at. What's the point of making changes to sets when players can't even play the game (PVP) on Xbox1? PVE is more reliable, so you're going to Nerf any proc sets I have in PVE, to balance PVP, which I can hardly play because of all the disconnecting/crashing? - that's great guys.

Well said. Haderus is almost unplayable. I get 1 crash every 45 minutes. And when I log back in I get kicked out of Cyrodil and have to wait in a queue (which usually take 15 minutes) only to get kicked 45 minutes later once I am in. How this hasn't been addressed after all this time is beyond me. It seems every update they bring does NOTHING to improve the stability and performance of the actual game.

WarLord2905

Garbage changes for PVE, almost makes a bunch of monsters sets useless for PVE because others were over performing in PVP...... the new proc sets were the best thing introduced in a while for PVE and now it looks like they will be messed up because of PVP complaining on certain sets. Why not just nerf or change those specific sets? Or like a lot of people have suggested the crit chance is zero in PVP only, why touch PVE when there are no issues. Very annoying.

montiferus

The main issue lies in the fact that in essence there are 2 games within one with ESO. PVP and PVE are sufficiently different enough that they should be separated as I do not think it is possible to properly balance one without having a significant negative impact on the other. I think they should either have entirely different sets that only work in one and not the other or have sets behave differently depending on whether you are in PVE or PVP.

This change to the proc sets will only serve to adversely affect PVE play while having a minimal impact on PVP. It doesn't seem like they thought this through. As others have said it feels like a band aid solution while the inner core is rotted. PVP in its current state is incredibly unstable and imbalanced.

I also think ZOS should spend more time speaking to their customers prior to making significant game changes. Would it really hurt to get the opinions of the top PVP and PVE guilds prior to implementing changes? I am sure they would get differing opinions to an extent but I think overall it would inform them and enable them to make smarter changes to the game. The reality is the top players on both sides know infinitely more about the game than the developers do. Why not lean on their experience?

THEDKEXPERIENCE

montiferus wrote: »

The main issue lies in the fact that in essence there are 2 games within one with ESO. PVP and PVE are sufficiently different enough that they should be separated as I do not think it is possible to properly balance one without having a significant negative impact on the other. I think they should either have entirely different sets that only work in one and not the other or have sets behave differently depending on whether you are in PVE or PVP.

This change to the proc sets will only serve to adversely affect PVE play while having a minimal impact on PVP. It doesn't seem like they thought this through. As others have said it feels like a band aid solution while the inner core is rotted. PVP in its current state is incredibly unstable and imbalanced.

I also think ZOS should spend more time speaking to their customers prior to making significant game changes. Would it really hurt to get the opinions of the top PVP and PVE guilds prior to implementing changes? I am sure they would get differing opinions to an extent but I think overall it would inform them and enable them to make smarter changes to the game. The reality is the top players on both sides know infinitely more about the game than the developers do. Why not lean on their experience?

"Adversely affect PVE": Maybe that's what the Devs want? The only "evidence" of this change being a PVP nerf is from PVE only players on this forum calling it one.

Maybe ZOS thinks soloing 4 man dungeons isn't balanced, and removing proc crits is their way to stop some (but clearly not all) people from doing things like this.

Destruent

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

The main issue lies in the fact that in essence there are 2 games within one with ESO. PVP and PVE are sufficiently different enough that they should be separated as I do not think it is possible to properly balance one without having a significant negative impact on the other. I think they should either have entirely different sets that only work in one and not the other or have sets behave differently depending on whether you are in PVE or PVP.

This change to the proc sets will only serve to adversely affect PVE play while having a minimal impact on PVP. It doesn't seem like they thought this through. As others have said it feels like a band aid solution while the inner core is rotted. PVP in its current state is incredibly unstable and imbalanced.

I also think ZOS should spend more time speaking to their customers prior to making significant game changes. Would it really hurt to get the opinions of the top PVP and PVE guilds prior to implementing changes? I am sure they would get differing opinions to an extent but I think overall it would inform them and enable them to make smarter changes to the game. The reality is the top players on both sides know infinitely more about the game than the developers do. Why not lean on their experience?

"Adversely affect PVE": Maybe that's what the Devs want? The only "evidence" of this change being a PVP nerf is from PVE only players on this forum calling it one.

Maybe ZOS thinks soloing 4 man dungeons isn't balanced, and removing proc crits is their way to stop some (but clearly not all) people from doing things like this.

If they intend to nerf PvE, the wouldn't need to nerf all proccsets bc 2 of them (grothdar + ilambris) are pretty strong atm. You can also solo dungeons without proccsets...

johu31

I've went back to farming malstrom arena. I had a hard time with it before lambris and the destro ult. It still takes 1.5 hours and 10 deaths, but the so called proc sets have made it to where a lot of people can do harder pve content.

It just seems like ZOS is taking a lazy approach and doing a very broad nerf. When it should've been more pvp focused.

montiferus

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

"Adversely affect PVE": Maybe that's what the Devs want? The only "evidence" of this change being a PVP nerf is from PVE only players on this forum calling it one.

Maybe ZOS thinks soloing 4 man dungeons isn't balanced, and removing proc crits is their way to stop some (but clearly not all) people from doing things like this.

From what I can tell the proc set changes are solely being implemented in attempt to scale back PVP not PVE. Could be wrong but I doubt it.

For the record I am about an even split of PVP and PVE so I have no skin in the game. All I want to see is a better balanced game that runs lag free. What we currently have isn't the case for either PVP or PVE. In the last month I have had ridiculous lag in Haddy and lag in VMA (which is a joke since it is a singular instance) and for a game to be out this long and still suffer these issues is inexcusable.

As for soloing 4 man dungeons who is able to currently solo a vet 4 man dungeon? I would say the number is pretty small especially if done on hard mode. If you are saying non-vet than yes it is quite easy. I had to solo COA I to get spellweave as I didn't wan to burden my friends with having to grind with me for the gear but I would be hard to pressed to find anyone who can solo vet COAII. And furthermore the only people "soloing" that non vet content are high level players. Whenever I pug a dungeon and get mixed with low CP people they struggle big time. I couldn't imagine how they would feel if everything got harder for them. I think it would discourage quite a few players.

PS - Even with the removal of crits on proc sets I am still going to be able to solo all non-vet content so if that is their true goal (which again I doubt) it will not be successful. If you go from 30k DPS to 27k DPS that isn't affecting things much.

Again ZOS needs to a complete overhaul of everything if they want to institute a real change. This isn't it.

Dev

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

"Adversely affect PVE": Maybe that's what the Devs want? The only "evidence" of this change being a PVP nerf is from PVE only players on this forum calling it one.

Maybe ZOS thinks soloing 4 man dungeons isn't balanced, and removing proc crits is their way to stop some (but clearly not all) people from doing things like this.

Sorry, but the entire sneak peek was for pvp. The entire list is to help pvp players...I know that pvp players might want to distract everyone else and shift the blame, but seriously, you cant disavow this proc set nerf. Every single item in the OP's list, is a pvp change.

Considering the amount of pvp tears about proc sets since 1tam, all the complaints and ect, and then when they make a change: you want to play it off as if it wasnt pvp players crying... no, it doesnt work that way.

So far the only thing that this sneak peek really shows is that zos will crap on the pve players in order to give the false impression that the will do something for pvp. You see, they are nerfing it because of pvp, it is just that they are doing it wrong, i know, its a big surprise...

We already know it is a pvp inspired nerf, and trying to say that it is not because it proves the negative impact that pvp has on PVE is just absurd.

The bottom line is pvp screwed it up for everyone and now wants to blame it on PVE to TRY and cover up their shame...
No, this IS your fault.

TheBonesXXX

Remove the caps.. gone. There is no good reason to have them.

There are high damage skills at long range for a reason..

If PvP and PvE is separate, keep them completely separate. Remove Battle Spirit and put in gear that has Player Reduction and Player Damage..

For the love of god.. come out with sets that increase the base mechanics of the game. Not silly sets meant for bosses, RNG has no place in PvP.

Add a FFA faction, one that has no loyalty to any side and can kill everyone.

That's how you do not have to worry about nerfing PvE sets, because they would become completely trivialized in PvP, that's completely fine.

Sets should be powerful in the setting you created them for, PvP and PvE is separate, the sets are NOT universal.

cpuScientist

OK so these sets don't get benefits from spell damage or max stats. So they are finishing the job. Then if this is the case. Fine, it's a good change. In the current system then sorcerer spell damage benefits don't apply but the Nightblades do. I was unaware of this. It should only take from champ points then... That way they are still stam and magicka based.

@ZOS_RichLambert I will allow this change.

Doctordarkspawn

THEDKEXPERIENCE wrote: »

montiferus wrote: »

The main issue lies in the fact that in essence there are 2 games within one with ESO. PVP and PVE are sufficiently different enough that they should be separated as I do not think it is possible to properly balance one without having a significant negative impact on the other. I think they should either have entirely different sets that only work in one and not the other or have sets behave differently depending on whether you are in PVE or PVP.

This change to the proc sets will only serve to adversely affect PVE play while having a minimal impact on PVP. It doesn't seem like they thought this through. As others have said it feels like a band aid solution while the inner core is rotted. PVP in its current state is incredibly unstable and imbalanced.

I also think ZOS should spend more time speaking to their customers prior to making significant game changes. Would it really hurt to get the opinions of the top PVP and PVE guilds prior to implementing changes? I am sure they would get differing opinions to an extent but I think overall it would inform them and enable them to make smarter changes to the game. The reality is the top players on both sides know infinitely more about the game than the developers do. Why not lean on their experience?

"Adversely affect PVE": Maybe that's what the Devs want? The only "evidence" of this change being a PVP nerf is from PVE only players on this forum calling it one.

Maybe ZOS thinks soloing 4 man dungeons isn't balanced, and removing proc crits is their way to stop some (but clearly not all) people from doing things like this.

IF ZOS wants to stop people from soloing four man dungeons, they need to make rigid classes or archetypes with the holy trinity and balance around that.

Anything else reduces the game without solving the problem.

THEDKEXPERIENCE

So rather than quoting every reply I'll just list a few responses.

- I know that there are very few people who can solo 4 man veteran dungeons. Chances are they are very good players and probably 90% of them will still be able to do it without crit procs. That small percentage that no longer can ... good. The nerf worked.
- Meanwhile there are a lot of players who can solo normal 4 man dungeons but it's still a much smaller percentage of the overall game than this forum would indicate. Let's be fair and say half the 561s can do this. I have to imagine that number will significantly decrease after this nerf. That is also good, and the nerf works.

So yeah, it's not perfect, and some people are so talented where it won't matter. I agree on these. But there is a very good chance that you will see the population that can solo normal dungeons and world bosses decrease by a significant percentage.

If that's the case they will be forcing people to group more which is also good.

Lastly, I think most of this anger is really just rooted in having to find different gear. And to that I say, it's a MMO. That's how they work. If it's OP it'll get nerfed.

nordsavage

MalakithAlamahdi wrote: »

No crit for proc sets will barely make a difference for PvE, I don't know why people complain about it. If you had to rely on procs to get a decent DPS then your an awfull player to begin with imo. Besides that, you won't even notice the difference in time on bosses with a couple million HP. It's a matter of mere seconds or minutes if most.

No crit is a huge loss in content where damage and crit really matter. Take vet and HM trials where every horn, passive and cp matter. so when 8 dps lose thousands of dps its pretty signifigant. Regular content will be easy no matter what they try to change. Removing crit is not the way to deal with these sets. It hurts group dynamic.

Also people are always complaining that crafted sets are underwhelming but do you think less crit factors on a set like TBS is going to help that?

#ThiefandShadow