Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

Mojmir

Lmao another pvp fix that affects pve. You guys are ***.

Ch4mpTW

Mojmir wrote: »

Lmao another pvp fix that affects pve. You guys are ***.

@Mojmir For once, I COMPLETELY agree with you. I have agreed with you in the past on things, but not completely. I mean it's nice that PvP'ers are getting something, but I just thought about things more in-depth. And honestly, this is going to hurt the community overall than help.

GreenSoup2HoT

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.
Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

I think this change is nice but this is a big blow for my crit based pvp nightblade. I understand why crit damage was taken out but this just enforces the same old "weapon damage > crit damage" theory again. Crit based characters are already pretty niche. I guess i wont be using proc sets. I guess that means ill farm Archers Mind.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:

• The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage
• The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)
• The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)
• Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

This change is nice but i believe it doesn't really solve any issues. Now you will see ball groups jumping into huge zergs wiping them with coordinated ultimates. Does this also mean Barrier has no AoE cap and just decreases in power after 6/31 players?

In my opinion its good this is happening but i need to wait for changes to certain abilities (such as Eye of the Storm) to fully grasp this change.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Poison fixes / adjustments
All poisons now share the same global cooldown and no longer have individual cooldowns. This means that when Update 13 goes live, it will no longer be possible to proc a poison more than once every 10 seconds.In addition, we’ve been able to track down and fix a separate issue where poisons could sometimes double proc.

Good change. Hopefully this addresses the Shrouded Dagger issue where it ignores the cool-down.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Stuck in combat in Cyrodiil
This has been an ongoing issue in Cyrodiil for a long time now – due to the nature of combat in Cyrodiil there were cascading threat issues between players. (i.e. – You fight another player and all the threat they have on them is transferred to you) We’ve changed how threat is transferred between players and when Update 13 goes live, you should always drop combat properly after 6 seconds of ending a battle. Note: If you are grouped with other players and they are actively in combat, you will still be considered in combat as well.

Little confused about how this works. You say combat will end at the end of a battle. Does this mean if im a solo player and i engage a target then run away, as long as my enemy is in combat, i will still be in combat because the battle has not ended? Is there a radius where group mates will keep me in combat? Is it possible to run up to someone, light attack them, run away and after 6 seconds return to stealth?

I'm interested to see a more in-depth explanation on how this works.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them.

Please tell me that Town vendor bags are now 5k also.... please rich please!

acw37162

Better idea;

Add crit chance, crit damage modifier, crit damage, crit heal chance, crit heal magnifier, and crit heals to the battle spirit debuff at whatever percentages your internal testing shows a good value.

Apply battle spirit debuff to tooltip for proc and monster sets.

If you have a problem with certain gear sets or monster sets over preforming individually tune them.

Crit is such an important factor in he game to suddenly say it does not to apply to 3 - 11 % of your damage or healing output is a rather significant and impactful change that has the very real "possibility" of rendering a majority of monster sets not as useful as other alternatives. If this ends up being the case you have elminated any reason to run dungeon content for quite a few players. I would think this is/should be a concern.

Foxic

DrMorisson wrote: »

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

DrMorisson wrote: »

From a new player's perspective (talking about myself duh) this makes me not want to play the game at all!
No I'm not talking about the upcoming changes or whatever good/bad status of the game it is at right now, it's you guys!!
I'm tired of this PVE/PVP/No I'm right you're wrong talks.
The lack of respect from some of you (way too many of you) it is what breaks the fun out of this game, really!
Yeah, one of the purposes of this community is to help ZOS, that's right, but as someone new who came over here I'm shocked & worried that instead of helping ZOS together as a whole community, you're arguing with each other (Whenever you can) and make it very difficult for the DEVS to comprehend what is really needed to be addressed.
There's no need for brothers war on the forums - if you really care about the game, if we really care about the game, we need to maintain a healthy relationsheep between us (Developers and Moderators you are included).

I have no opinion on the in-game performance cause I've never done dungeons, trials or whatever (level 23),
but I do know that this is just a game and we all here which makes us a community, so lets behave in a different approach for once - lets be a good community, lets respect each other and maybe then we'll start seeing the "goods" which are there by the way - you just concentrate on the bads.

Thank you!

But do you understand that this won't do anything, right?
If so many are suffering in the game because of XYZ, what point does it makes to "get to the boiling point" and still play the game while whining on every aspect of it?

Maybe a different approach should be considered? maybe If we have a SENIOR player whom they listen to more, who will play a role, as a connector between the community and the devs, that could provide them with a list of though trough points that neither go towards PVP or PVE solely but together! because this game is both PVP and PVE??

I just want to see you smiling guys! love ya all

The core combat system in eso is extremely good and it is why I and a large amount of players stick around. And I am not saying that every decision zenimax makes is bad, they have alot of good ideas too. The problem is they never explain their reasoning or show their data when there is something that a vast majority of the players are against. Like maelstrom rng for example.

Also we have at least one community ambassador that I know of, and no offense to them but I don't feel like they do anything and I have no idea why their opinion is relevant. They are not a top theory crafter, raider, or pvper.

Zenimax attends various meetings with top pvpers and top raiders but the "meetings" are extremely one sided and nothing ever changes.

Knootewoot

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Mojmir wrote: »

Lmao another pvp fix that affects pve. You guys are ***.

@Mojmir For once, I COMPLETELY agree with you. I have agreed with you in the past on things, but not completely. I mean it's nice that PvP'ers are getting something, but I just thought about things more in-depth. And honestly, this is going to hurt the community overall than help.

PvP does not get anything from this. I know many people who have almost no crit,, run 3 proc sets and can one-shot people. So even without the crit the proc sets will dominate PvP.

And yeas, they should have left PvE alone.

I know it's just a sneakpeak. But I rather hear something about magicka DPS upgrade and light armor being usefull for surviving.

Mojmir

So basically what's written here and put on pts is set and stone from here on out. F2P by summer 2017.

Clarkieson

Mojmir wrote: »

So basically what's written here and put on pts is set and stone from here on out. F2P by summer 2017.

This game will be dead way before update 13 breaks pve. Ps4 eu is already dead and many are either changing to NA server or just giving up on eso.

I cant say i blame these people, things seem better on the na server, more people, more pvp servers i bet the eu server was just a last minute fix to the rest of the world outside merrka problem.

Typical zos

Clarkieson

And you kmow what zenimax doesnt even give a *** about our views in the community so there is another nail in the eso coffin right there

The_Protagonist

Guess I'll have another learning curve in the game.

Donnasnowheart_ESO

Poeple are confusing If I recall lots of ppl were pretty annoyed with the overall powercreep and proc sets playing a big part in that. Said proc sets takes a nerf to its burst portion by removing its ability to crit and ppl are upset. Is Pve really in such a state that proc sets not being able to crit make or break the ability to kill stuff in a timely manner, because honestly damage in pve with ppl that know what rotations and buttons are seems even more overtunned then pvp. People read nerf and freak out this will hardly affect pve things will die just as crazy fast, game has an overflow of damage in healing in both game modes the proc set changes are a good start to helping ease back on that.

Clarkieson

Donnasnowheart_ESO wrote: »

Poeple are confusing If I recall lots of ppl were pretty annoyed with the overall powercreep and proc sets playing a big part in that. Said proc sets takes a nerf to its burst portion by removing its ability to crit and ppl are upset. Is Pve really in such a state that proc sets not being able to crit make or break the ability to kill stuff in a timely manner, because honestly damage in pve with ppl that know what rotations and buttons are seems even more overtunned then pvp. People read nerf and freak out this will hardly affect pve things will die just as crazy fast, game has an overflow of damage in healing in both game modes the proc set changes are a good start to helping ease back on that.

No its the fact that all anyone has done since ome tamriel is fatm sets for 100's of hours. We liked the sets we gor and killed stuff with it.

Some pvp streamers started getting killed by the new sets and tears flowed. Pvp cry babies always win, which is baffling as they make up less than 10% of the player base. Baby throws teddy out of pram and everyone has to suffer

So zenimax *** its pants and nerfed eveything, its embarrassing for zos as it makes the last two patches look like a joke and infuriates playes who ground the dungeons and dolems to get the sets

Its been a whole series of nerfs since imperial ciry and its getting beyond anything that some people can take, farm this oh its nerfed, farm new thing oh thats now nerfed, nerf dk, nerf sorc.

Its getting *** boring having to farm sets every *** patch just because some *** streamer thinks he can 1vx in a zerg war. Aliance versuse alliance, not some prima donna who thinks he can kill zergs.and thats why people are fed up, coz they aint getting listened to. Zos only care about streamers

GoodOrc

I actualy think that this gange would'n help. I hawe proc sork and prok NB and on both I kill players not with krit dmg(cos ewery one use inpenetrable) i kill players just when my 3 procs do dmg in 1-2 sek (welidreth -6k Viper -4k Red mountein or widowmaker -4k) more then half HP of most players without crit!!!! +1-2 skill and RIP dude!
Would your change help? - Hell NO!
Do 1 cooldown on all proc chanse that dont hawe % base proc reiting!
Nerfing crit you cutting down half of game mechaniks! This is stupid!

Domander

All the complaining about removing crits from proc sets.... let me ask, would another set/setup be as or more effective for damage? Especially free damage that just "happens".

I'd prefer a change that lowers the damage but increases the frequency and proc chance, (though more people would complain probably) but it is what it is..

Bobby_V_Rockit

Guess we all did just fine before proc sets became the meta a few months back, and we'll do just fine again. The question now though, do we pump all our cp in penetration rather than critical?

nml

Global proc cooldown please

Gilvoth

Mojmir wrote: »

Lmao another pvp fix that affects pve. You guys are ***.

its not a fix.
it fixes nothing in pvp. its only real effect will be in pve.
impen stops all crit allready, so to remove crit from pvp is not doing anything at all.

GoodOrc

Forgot obout PvE - so you going to do crap from monster sets that you worked so hard to make. Cos nobody use sets thats dont hawe half of game mechaniks! This way I prosiing that more than half players would ask "Why do we need to do Undaunted daily?" Sets is usseless crap(will be for pve) and in 3 month you will be loking for a way to return interest to undaunted deily, its just LOL. Think better twise before nerf crit on those undauted sets!

Donnasnowheart_ESO

Clarkieson wrote: »

Donnasnowheart_ESO wrote: »

Poeple are confusing If I recall lots of ppl were pretty annoyed with the overall powercreep and proc sets playing a big part in that. Said proc sets takes a nerf to its burst portion by removing its ability to crit and ppl are upset. Is Pve really in such a state that proc sets not being able to crit make or break the ability to kill stuff in a timely manner, because honestly damage in pve with ppl that know what rotations and buttons are seems even more overtunned then pvp. People read nerf and freak out this will hardly affect pve things will die just as crazy fast, game has an overflow of damage in healing in both game modes the proc set changes are a good start to helping ease back on that.

No its the fact that all anyone has done since ome tamriel is fatm sets for 100's of hours. We liked the sets we gor and killed stuff with it.

Some pvp streamers started getting killed by the new sets and tears flowed. Pvp cry babies always win, which is baffling as they make up less than 10% of the player base. Baby throws teddy out of pram and everyone has to suffer

So zenimax *** its pants and nerfed eveything, its embarrassing for zos as it makes the last two patches look like a joke and infuriates playes who ground the dungeons and dolems to get the sets

Its been a whole series of nerfs since imperial ciry and its getting beyond anything that some people can take, farm this oh its nerfed, farm new thing oh thats now nerfed, nerf dk, nerf sorc.

Its getting *** boring having to farm sets every *** patch just because some *** streamer thinks he can 1vx in a zerg war. Aliance versuse alliance, not some prima donna who thinks he can kill zergs.and thats why people are fed up, coz they aint getting listened to. Zos only care about streamers

I really don't think anyone is going to be farming for new sets and monster sets will suddenly drop off and be useless, the sets will still be very strong just less potent in the burst department which should help the games general powercreep.

nordsavage

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Guess we all did just fine before proc sets became the meta a few months back, and we'll do just fine again. The question now though, do we pump all our cp in penetration rather than critical?

You can still put it in crit you just will have to take off direct damage proc sets in favor of stat stacking that can still be effected by crit factors such as major/minor force and class passives.

Peekachu99

@ZOS_RichLambert The problem is the proc rate and damage is simply too high and cooldowns too low for certain sets. The end. Nothing should have a 50% or 20% activation rate. I don't know who thought this was a good idea. This doesn't exist in ANY game.

Nerfing PVE into the ground is a pointless and brute-force solution that won't fix anything. Each set needs to be adjusted based on output, and you know by now, from your internal data what those sets are. Also, what sets are affected? Every set? Some sets (the most egregious)? You really need to clarify.

Faulgor

I think what troubles me the most is the approach of a blanket nerf to all proc sets when the concern is only a handful of sets, mainly Viper and Widowmaker. These sets proc too easily because they have a 100% chance, and result in ridiculously high and predictable burst damage when used with each other or more proc sets.

Why is this nerf warranted to sets like Trinimac's Valor? Or Oblivion's Edge? Bahraha's Curse?
Or even crafted sets which are already nearly equivalent to nonexistent, like Ashen Grip, Vampire's Kiss, Song of Lamae, Noble's Conquest, Redistributor, Shalidor's Curse.

I am concerned this change will only make undesireable sets more useless, while not tackling the actual issue of the mentioned overpowered sets. And if sets are also rebalanced individually, a blanket nerf would be unnecessary to begin with.

A blanket nerf suggests a lack of interest in the actual applications of these sets, which I find troubling.

Toast_STS

Thanks ZOS! I am looking forward to the PTS and will wait for the rest of the patch notes before I pass judgement.

Where's the dragon blood fix at though?

Pops_ND_Irish

Dev wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Oh know i'm going to lose rough;y 3% dps because my proc sets can't crit.

However will i handle such huge set back in pve now? What am i going to do when i'm busy ignoring boss mechanics in my 30s boss burst? The boss will live 2s longer, this could be wipe worthy.

Like come on people really?

why are you getting arrogant with this update, its not like they actually fixed what kept killing you in pvp. If anything, it will be worse because of all the aoe increased damage. Anyone who survived EoTS before will now die to it. The bridge that everyone loves to fight at will be complete chaos as people just drop from all the aoes. All in all, this could be one of the final nails for pvp, and that part i like.

To semi-paraphrase a line from Game of Thrones, character 'Ramsey Snow':

If you think that Update 13 will have a happy ending, clearly you haven't been paying attention.

The reason i am done, is not because of the 3% difference but the fact that they completely and totally missing the point. If PVE is so trivial to them, then i will take my money to their competition. I drop about 160$ per year for the sub, and another 100$ or so per crown sale, so figure somewhere in the $300-500 per year bracket. I know in the big picture it is not a lot, but still its less money for them.

At the end of it all, i have to ask myself 3 questions:

1. Am i having fun? No, the game is based on rng too much, and is lacking the content needed to keep it interesting.
2. WIll it get better? No, the company is out of touch and continues to prove it with updates like this.
3. is it worth the money? well if i am not having fun, and its not going to get better, and it is clear that the management of the game is unable to make good decisions: Then 'No' would be the correct answer.

I still have a few months left to my sub, however if i could get a refund for the remaining sub time and crowns, i would take it and leave. i know they wont, because as with many greedy companies they make sure they can keep your money when not providing any value.

I have lost any confidence in their management. I will read the patch notes and see what else they have broken, but for now i have lost any motivation to ever be bothered with another zos or bethesda product. I wont even buy es6 whenever they release it, and most certainly not on pre-order after the ESO launch disaster.

Wait, please dont go ! Send me your gold and mats !
Isnt that funny. People threatening to leave and quit game, but not received one mail from anyone.
If you are quitting what good does that stuff do you !

Or you could relax and wait for the update and see exactly what is coming out.

SublimeSparo

Faulgor wrote: »

I think what troubles me the most is the approach of a blanket nerf to all proc sets when the concern is only a handful of sets, mainly Viper and Widowmaker. These sets proc too easily because they have a 100% chance, and result in ridiculously high and predictable burst damage when used with each other or more proc sets.

Why is this nerf warranted to sets like Trinimac's Valor? Or Oblivion's Edge? Bahraha's Curse?
Or even crafted sets which are already nearly equivalent to nonexistent, like Ashen Grip, Vampire's Kiss, Song of Lamae, Noble's Conquest, Redistributor, Shalidor's Curse.

I am concerned this change will only make undesireable sets more useless, while not tackling the actual issue of the mentioned overpowered sets. And if sets are also rebalanced individually, a blanket nerf would be unnecessary to begin with.

A blanket nerf suggests a lack of interest in the actual applications of these sets, which I find troubling.

Obviously ashen grip is over performing. I mean come on, that 10% chance to proc 1k flame damage with melee attacks with a 4s cooldown is OP as ***, think of the crits man, that could reach the dizzying heights of 2- 2.25k with some serious investment in chd. And if you get extremely lucky with procs and have a good warhorn rotation could equate to a dps increase of nearly 400.

Lord_Etrigan

ZOS, while you in the nerfing mood. Why don't you just remove PVE completely and just make this a PVP game. Hell, you're already halfway there!

AzraelKrieg

Toast_STS wrote: »

Thanks ZOS! I am looking forward to the PTS and will wait for the rest of the patch notes before I pass judgement.

Where's the dragon blood fix at though?

This is only a sneak peak at the patch and covers a very specific section of the game. We'll need to wait for the patch to hit the PTS before we can see what else is coming.

FuriousMonk313

Koolio wrote: »

No pve crit. Wow thanks for Fixing burst in PVP. But still all my farming for a set that can't crit now. Waste of my Christmas weekend. All of it. Goodbye llambris.

That was the first thing I said to myself when I first heard of this post early today. I spent so much time farming undaunted keys for divine Llambris shoulders, only for it to get nerfed in PvE... kinda sucks. I spent over two months building up my mag sorc in anticipation for a Llambris PvE build. And now the only thing that made this class relevant is getting put on the chopping block -_-

Flameheart

CyrusArya wrote: »

Great changes and great way of handling the proc issue. Without crit procs in PvP, the sets are not useless but definitely not nearly as powerful as they are now. This preserves the effort people put into farming the gear but makes them much less cheesy then they currently are. Stacking procs may still indeed be powerful but I don't like the idea of restricting a player from gearing the way they want and I think this crit change will do more than enough to dampen stacking procs. Remember, when you stack procs you sacrifice raw stats buffs which are also powerful. Thats the most important aspect of this change in my view. It makes stacking pen or raw stats equally viable options to stacking proc sets (which i honestly believe is already the case in many instances). In other words, there will be good balance in what builds are viable and how people want to play their characters.

As far as PvE whiners go, I honestly dont care to hear it. Gonna tell you the same thing I tell people who rely on proc sets in PvP: stop crutching on procs. Proc sets on live are op and carry players both in PvP and PvE...unless you wanna sit here and argue that monster sets hitting as hard as ultimates and grothdar ticking for 4-6k is balanced and reasonable. Before you jump the gun and assume this was done simply to appease PvP players, realize that ZOS probably sees the same logic as I do that proc sets were too powerful in both aspects of the game. Proc sets should supplement, not define builds. And this changes accomplishes exactly that.

Lastly, to the people who want separate profiles for PvP and PvE: hell no. Consistency between the two aspects of the game is very important to me and making the two realms operate differently would be something I'm strongly opposed to.

So utter wrong and contradictory to my opinion. Can we have an "awful" or at least a "disagree" button ?

Vaoh

FuriousMonk313 wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

No pve crit. Wow thanks for Fixing burst in PVP. But still all my farming for a set that can't crit now. Waste of my Christmas weekend. All of it. Goodbye llambris.

That was the first thing I said to myself when I first heard of this post early today. I spent so much time farming undaunted keys for divine Llambris shoulders, only for it to get nerfed in PvE... kinda sucks. I spent over two months building up my mag sorc in anticipation for a Llambris PvE build. And now the only thing that made this class relevant is getting put on the chopping block -_-

I'll wait before I say Magicka Sorcerer is ruined for high end PvE DPS. We might become the class no one wants around again though for sure if it is a large enough nerf.

Anyway, I've been working on different Mag Sorc PvE DPS rotations from the meta (lay down Liquid Lightning+WoE, Curse+Force Pulse w/ Frag procs, repeat).

I tested the meta Mag Sorc rotation vs a new one I've developed and put out roughly the same damage, despite having seriously messed up my new rotation everytime. Turns out it is possible to put out higher DPS but it's much tougher to efficiently use.

Same goes for the typical 2x Ilambris, 5x BSW/TBS, 4x Aether/Moondancer meta. There is a (slightly) better build but it is again much tougher to make use of and requires hardcore RNG to acquire what you need.

If this Ilambris nerf is as big as it sounds and cripples Magicka Sorc DPS, you'll still be able to put out on par DPS to other class specs if you've mained Mag Sorc since launch, play it everyday, farmed like a madman for gear before U13, and perform your rotation flawlessly otherwise you'll miss out on the leaderboard trial runs you used to get called for.

Let's hope ZOS is smart enough not to make Mag Sorcs irrelevant for endgame Vet trial DPS.