Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

Pallio

Is pvp were the $$ comes from? Do they buy all the pretty horses and pets? I doubt it.

RavenSworn

Holy sheet people, calm yourselves.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

This doesn't mean that you can't crit in pve anymore. It just means these sets that either a) deals damage or b) heal will no longer crit. It doesn't say you don't have crit sets anymore like Leviathan or Toothrow. It's sets like selene or Velidreth that will be affected. It's the proc that won't crit, not your own crit chance or damage.

For God's sake read on. They even put a "they still like the concept of these sets". Why would a crit from a proc have much effect on your own overall dps? It's suppose to be bonus damage anyway, dungeons can be done without the sets in the first place. It helps but your build is the most important component. Holy hell read the notes properly before even making assumptions. And we haven't even seen the full notes yet.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

SanTii.92 wrote: »

Good Lord, forum warrior's reaction... Stop acting like the world is ending, can't you understand that IF monster set end up being underused it can SIMPLY be adressed by fixing the TOOLTIP VALUES ¡?

The sooner you understand that sometimes nerfs are needed the least it will bother you. Consider this, the reason why it upsets you so much is probably because you are abusing an overpowered machinc.

Stay classy forums.

Do you know how often ZOS adjusts under-performing sets??? Instead of just nerfing over-performing ones?

Ice Furnace says hi.

Baharaha's curse says hi. Ashen grip says hi. Way of fire says hi. Leeching plate says hi. There are SO MANY underperforming proc sets in the game that are just simply not used because they are so weak. They can be adjusted"? great? Will they be adjusted? don't hold your breath.

I'm glad you think ZOS is going to take a look at the myriad of broken or under-performing sets and buff them all giving us tons of options but there is no precedent for this. Weak sets stay weak, strong sets get nerfed. Everything becomes either average or mediocre.

Skcarkden

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

I like how ZOS specifically made it clear that the proc set nerfs are going to be for both PVE and PVP, as if PVE and PVP are ever treater separately to begin with when it's not.

Sounds more like they wanted to make sure PVE'rs know that something is nerfed because of PVP.

Would be too unproffesional of ZOS to outright say "We're punishing everyone because PVP won't shut up every time they die to a paper cut"

And yet any good high end pve'er knows that proc sets are over performing end game pve. Difference is the scripted mobs can't complain.

I'll be honest here, i really truly do not care about that line of argument.

It was never an issue untill PvP cried, then ZoS go "You know what, we don't care anymore, give them their bottle" and make changes across the board, but in their moment of giving in they also decide to be petty and spell it out that it's happening to all sides.

My comment was referring to the fact that ZOS in a game where PvE and PvP doesn't have any difference in combat function for some reason needed to specify that it's happening to each section of the game, it would be as absurd as saying "This change to features will occur to Ebonheart Pact, Aldmeri Dominion and the Daggerfall Covenant" When really what they mean is "the whole game" but maybe one faction complained more than the other and wanted to be spiteful and be subtle about saying who to blame.

Even if i were to care about your point -which i don't- there are plenty of exmaples of other games where devs do similar based on the complains on one side causing a nerf to all sides whether it was balanced already or not.

The point i was making was the bitter specificity that looks more like an attempt to antagonise others because they don't have separation between PvE and PvP in how combat works.

DisgracefulMind

I really don't see the need to place the proc set change in PvE. I would much rather the non-crits from proc sets be a battle spirit addition.

But honestly, I'd rather just not see proc sets being able to proc all at once. So I don't think the proposed change is a solution at all /:

rosendoichinoveb17_ESO

Welcome changes for PvP, but I feel like PvE end-game content will suffer a significant loss on DPS and will make trials once again pleasing only to those 1% of the players which is kind of sad.

It will be interesting to see how ZOS will compensate for the DPS loss for PvE.

I mean in vet dungeons playing with pugs can be sometimes somewhat frustrating (if you're a tank or healer), and with the changes to proc sets it will become worse.

Doctordarkspawn

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Holy sheet people, calm yourselves.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

This doesn't mean that you can't crit in pve anymore. It just means these sets that either a) deals damage or b) heal will no longer crit. It doesn't say you don't have crit sets anymore like Leviathan or Toothrow. It's sets like selene or Velidreth that will be affected. It's the proc that won't crit, not your own crit chance or damage.

For God's sake read on. They even put a "they still like the concept of these sets". Why would a crit from a proc have much effect on your own overall dps? It's suppose to be bonus damage anyway, dungeons can be done without the sets in the first place. It helps but your build is the most important component. Holy hell read the notes properly before even making assumptions. And we haven't even seen the full notes yet.

@uniq_faznrb18_ESO

Zenimax online has a tendancy to miss the mark entirely, outright ignore their players on issues, or just do wildly far-reaching things without understanding the consequences of them. They also have a tendancy to express one sentiment, then do another thing entirely.

Forgive those of us who've seen this pattern emerge before for being skeptical and enraged beforehand. When you need to fight these changes, not that it does much good, for a long time now, you tend to start working against this sort of thing immediately.

If you dont understand why the proc sets not critting is an issue, read through alot of the comments on this thread. We may not have the entire patch notes yet, but this, combined with other changes, could do serious damage to PVE. All for PVP's sake.

And it does not fix the problem as many PVPers say. The sheer volume of procs is still going to make this a change that does nothing.

The best case senario is we are pointlessly nerfed for PVP only for ZOS to scratch their head as to why PVPers continue whining. It wont matter they can no longer crit, a dude wearing viper, red mountain and Velindreth will still do upwards of 10 K burst.

The worst case senario is multiple facets of PVE are broken and PVP is not changed in the slightest.

Parafrost

a_Beautiful_Mind2 wrote: »

It would be nice if there were a way to separate PVE builds from pvp builds..certain loadouts only allowed in either and that way neither gets too out of balance like pvp has gotten to accommodate the increased levels of trials and will continue to grow as the future of the game continues. This unnecessary removal of crits from PVE (if it sticks according to these notes) is going to hinder trials groups from their current work they have put in to get their groups to where they are.

There is a way.

Rohamad_Ali

I just hope what ever the final decision is , it's enough to bring some PvP players back that already left because of the disgusting mess these suits made to run PvP into the ground the last year . A lot of people left the last year and big guilds can see it when 50 put of 500 are barely present .

Dev

Pallio wrote: »

Is pvp were the $$ comes from? Do they buy all the pretty horses and pets? I doubt it.

dunno, its called horse sim for a reason?

Bobby_V_Rockit

Hmmmm.... dont know what to think now... I guess build diversity is a good thing, but really only for people getting ready to make the last set they'll ever need... who knows! Could be fun in PVE again, was getting tiresome easy anyway (overworld stuff that is)

DisgracefulMind

Dev wrote: »

Pallio wrote: »

Is pvp were the $$ comes from? Do they buy all the pretty horses and pets? I doubt it.

dunno, its called horse sim for a reason?

Oh, please. PvPers LOVE buying new mounts. My PvP guild alone probably made ZoS a couple thousand just by buying crown crates for those dumb atro mounts lol.

Doctordarkspawn

At this point I'ma wait for the full patch notes. I'm desperately hoping this game gets it's act together, that this change will have minimal impact.

But I'm not confident. And if push comes to shove I'm just going to RP here.

Prove me wrong, ZOS. I invite you to make me eat crow.

Clarkieson

Zenimax really are missing point, just a little bit more than pearl harbour missed the point

Theres a song here somewhere.....

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Clarkieson wrote: »

Zenimax really are missing point, just a little bit more than pearl harbour missed the point

Theres a song here somewhere.....

It's like telling Michael Bay he can still have explosions every 4 seconds in his movies but they can't do any critical damage.

SublimeSparo

Clarkieson wrote: »

Zenimax really are missing point, just a little bit more than pearl harbour missed the point

Theres a song here somewhere.....

https://youtu.be/p9jS4gppIFs

Clarkieson

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Clarkieson wrote: »

Zenimax really are missing point, just a little bit more than pearl harbour missed the point

Theres a song here somewhere.....

It's like telling Michael Bay he can still have explosions every 4 seconds in his movies but they can't do any critical damage.

Eso is a hollywood explosion, lots of pyrotechnics and visuals and no damage, to anything anymore

In pvp you will get killed gtf over it people, what you tryhard pvpers think your god or something? You think your invincible? People are trying to kill you, kill them back, dont go crying to zos to get the game nerfed because your stream of 1vx ing now sucks coz you get wrecked

Look what you have achieved, you got the ENTIRE damage nerfee from all the stuff we famed this patch and its annoyed alot of people. Zos are the real idiots here pandering to the 0.001% of players who actually care about pvp

Look at the trophy numbers on ps4, no one does pvp trophies, no one cares. No one does imperial city coz its a dumb pvp concept

Congratulations

DrMorisson

From a new player's perspective (talking about myself duh) this makes me not want to play the game at all!
No I'm not talking about the upcoming changes or whatever good/bad status of the game it is at right now, it's you guys!!
I'm tired of this PVE/PVP/No I'm right you're wrong talks.
The lack of respect from some of you (way too many of you) it is what breaks the fun out of this game, really!
Yeah, one of the purposes of this community is to help ZOS, that's right, but as someone new who came over here I'm shocked & worried that instead of helping ZOS together as a whole community, you're arguing with each other (Whenever you can) and make it very difficult for the DEVS to comprehend what is really needed to be addressed.
There's no need for brothers war on the forums - if you really care about the game, if we really care about the game, we need to maintain a healthy relationsheep between us (Developers and Moderators you are included).

I have no opinion on the in-game performance cause I've never done dungeons, trials or whatever (level 23),
but I do know that this is just a game and we all here which makes us a community, so lets behave in a different approach for once - lets be a good community, lets respect each other and maybe then we'll start seeing the "goods" which are there by the way - you just concentrate on the bads.

Thank you!

Clarkieson

DrMorisson wrote: »

From a new player's perspective (talking about myself duh) this makes me not want to play the game at all!
No I'm not talking about the upcoming changes or whatever good/bad status of the game it is at right now, it's you guys!!
I'm tired of this PVE/PVP/No I'm right you're wrong talks.
The lack of respect from some of you (way too many of you) it is what breaks the fun out of this game, really!
Yeah, one of the purposes of this community is to help ZOS, that's right, but as someone new who came over here I'm shocked & worried that instead of helping ZOS together as a whole community, you're arguing with each other (Whenever you can) and make it very difficult for the DEVS to comprehend what is really needed to be addressed.
There's no need for brothers war on the forums - if you really care about the game, if we really care about the game, we need to maintain a healthy relationsheep between us (Developers and Moderators you are included).

I have no opinion on the in-game performance cause I've never done dungeons, trials or whatever (level 23),
but I do know that this is just a game and we all here which makes us a community, so lets behave in a different approach for once - lets be a good community, lets respect each other and maybe then we'll start seeing the "goods" which are there by the way - you just concentrate on the bads.

Thank you!

Zos only talk to streamers

Streamers cry and stuff happens

Bobby_V_Rockit

Wait, doesnt everyone run impenetrable in PvP anyway? So it wont make a difference to them, but PvE will just have lower DPS as a result. Hmm

NewBlacksmurf

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Once again a bad change on the proc sets to try and make PvP happy. The burst is fine when fightning mobs with millions of health or that one shot or nearly one shot players. This should had either been left alone or figured out a way to turn the crit off while in Cyrodiil only.

You will never be able to balance PvE items in PvP settings it's impossible stop trying to do so, and just make items and skills that can only be used in PvE or PvP content.

Completely agree in context to this change.

Foxic

DrMorisson wrote: »

From a new player's perspective (talking about myself duh) this makes me not want to play the game at all!
No I'm not talking about the upcoming changes or whatever good/bad status of the game it is at right now, it's you guys!!
I'm tired of this PVE/PVP/No I'm right you're wrong talks.
The lack of respect from some of you (way too many of you) it is what breaks the fun out of this game, really!
Yeah, one of the purposes of this community is to help ZOS, that's right, but as someone new who came over here I'm shocked & worried that instead of helping ZOS together as a whole community, you're arguing with each other (Whenever you can) and make it very difficult for the DEVS to comprehend what is really needed to be addressed.
There's no need for brothers war on the forums - if you really care about the game, if we really care about the game, we need to maintain a healthy relationsheep between us (Developers and Moderators you are included).

I have no opinion on the in-game performance cause I've never done dungeons, trials or whatever (level 23),
but I do know that this is just a game and we all here which makes us a community, so lets behave in a different approach for once - lets be a good community, lets respect each other and maybe then we'll start seeing the "goods" which are there by the way - you just concentrate on the bads.

Thank you!

Since you are new to the game, you have no idea how the trademark lack of communication from zenimax has turned these forums so hostile. It would never need to get to this point if the devs were more engaging and gave more solid reasons as to why they are making they changes they are and the data they used to get there.

This has been going on for years, and everyone is starting to reach their boiling point.

EldritchPenguin

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Wait, doesnt everyone run impenetrable in PvP anyway? So it wont make a difference to them, but PvE will just have lower DPS as a result. Hmm

Even with 7 Impenetrable items, critical hits still deal more damage than non-critical hits, especially if your opponent is running the Shadow Stone or a bunch of CP to boost their crit damage, which is not uncommon among Nightblades, for example, to help bypass the commonly high crit resistance.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Just so we are clear, the global cooldown on poisons is just on poisons procced from weapons, not poison procs from sets right?

Bobby_V_Rockit

EldritchPenguin wrote: »

Bobby_V_Rockit wrote: »

Wait, doesnt everyone run impenetrable in PvP anyway? So it wont make a difference to them, but PvE will just have lower DPS as a result. Hmm

Even with 7 Impenetrable items, critical hits still deal more damage than non-critical hits, especially if your opponent is running the Shadow Stone or a bunch of CP to boost their crit damage, which is not uncommon among Nightblades, for example, to help bypass the commonly high crit resistance.

Well there ya go. Will just take some readjusting then.

AzraelKrieg

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Just so we are clear, the global cooldown on poisons is just on poisons procced from weapons, not poison procs from sets right?

I believe so.

DrMorisson

TotallyNotVos wrote: »

DrMorisson wrote: »

From a new player's perspective (talking about myself duh) this makes me not want to play the game at all!
No I'm not talking about the upcoming changes or whatever good/bad status of the game it is at right now, it's you guys!!
I'm tired of this PVE/PVP/No I'm right you're wrong talks.
The lack of respect from some of you (way too many of you) it is what breaks the fun out of this game, really!
Yeah, one of the purposes of this community is to help ZOS, that's right, but as someone new who came over here I'm shocked & worried that instead of helping ZOS together as a whole community, you're arguing with each other (Whenever you can) and make it very difficult for the DEVS to comprehend what is really needed to be addressed.
There's no need for brothers war on the forums - if you really care about the game, if we really care about the game, we need to maintain a healthy relationsheep between us (Developers and Moderators you are included).

I have no opinion on the in-game performance cause I've never done dungeons, trials or whatever (level 23),
but I do know that this is just a game and we all here which makes us a community, so lets behave in a different approach for once - lets be a good community, lets respect each other and maybe then we'll start seeing the "goods" which are there by the way - you just concentrate on the bads.

Thank you!

But do you understand that this won't do anything, right?
If so many are suffering in the game because of XYZ, what point does it makes to "get to the boiling point" and still play the game while whining on every aspect of it?

Maybe a different approach should be considered? maybe If we have a SENIOR player whom they listen to more, who will play a role, as a connector between the community and the devs, that could provide them with a list of though trough points that neither go towards PVP or PVE solely but together! because this game is both PVP and PVE??

I just want to see you smiling guys! love ya all

RavenSworn

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Holy sheet people, calm yourselves.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

This doesn't mean that you can't crit in pve anymore. It just means these sets that either a) deals damage or b) heal will no longer crit. It doesn't say you don't have crit sets anymore like Leviathan or Toothrow. It's sets like selene or Velidreth that will be affected. It's the proc that won't crit, not your own crit chance or damage.

For God's sake read on. They even put a "they still like the concept of these sets". Why would a crit from a proc have much effect on your own overall dps? It's suppose to be bonus damage anyway, dungeons can be done without the sets in the first place. It helps but your build is the most important component. Holy hell read the notes properly before even making assumptions. And we haven't even seen the full notes yet.

@uniq_faznrb18_ESO

Zenimax online has a tendancy to miss the mark entirely, outright ignore their players on issues, or just do wildly far-reaching things without understanding the consequences of them. They also have a tendancy to express one sentiment, then do another thing entirely.

Forgive those of us who've seen this pattern emerge before for being skeptical and enraged beforehand. When you need to fight these changes, not that it does much good, for a long time now, you tend to start working against this sort of thing immediately.

If you dont understand why the proc sets not critting is an issue, read through alot of the comments on this thread. We may not have the entire patch notes yet, but this, combined with other changes, could do serious damage to PVE. All for PVP's sake.

And it does not fix the problem as many PVPers say. The sheer volume of procs is still going to make this a change that does nothing.

The best case senario is we are pointlessly nerfed for PVP only for ZOS to scratch their head as to why PVPers continue whining. It wont matter they can no longer crit, a dude wearing viper, red mountain and Velindreth will still do upwards of 10 K burst.

The worst case senario is multiple facets of PVE are broken and PVP is not changed in the slightest.

I understand where you stand on this but honestly, before we even judge on something, let's not make it so like as if it will end pve as we know it.

I have read through the comments but most, if not all, stated that crit is needed to finish bosses. Millions of health. Procs just assisted in the matter, not the crux of it. You don't need Procs to crit in the first place. Like I said, it helped but it's not a crux. It's your build and your rotation that matters. Gear matters too but you won't get high dps with only heavy attacks yeah?

However, what the change should have been was to remove monster sets from the PvP scene and / or to introduce new PvP sets only. Then under update 15, you introduce changing armor styles with master crafting.

The idea to implement no crit or no proc crit in battle spirit is not useful imo. Impen is useful now, why render it useless if a no crit blanket change be done in cyrodill?

Again, it's not that sets that has crit in them be changed to no crit. It's sets that has a damage or heal component to it that won't crit. As I said in my example, it's sets like selene, Velidreth, valkyn etc. The change to pve would just be your build. Many were basically build to the one facet of the proc set, which is a one trick pony in my mind.

Ah I don't know mate, forums are great for good info but when people go up in arms, raising pitchforks and just go berserk on false info, that's just wrong.

Lylith

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Clarkieson wrote: »

Hey guys you know that all this is set in stone already, even if that break the game on the PTS, all this is going live in the next patch

Mark

My

Words

Nothing will change between now and update 14

Lies there is always a little game breaking surprise thrown in between the last pts patch version and the live update.

First was the uncalled for gap closer snare that somehow just ended up in the game.

Then there was the doubling cost poisons to 60% despite everyone asking for the effectiveness of the 30% to be lowered.


This ones gonna be: 'In return for making proc sets uncritable we have balanced this by increasing all proc set dmg by 30%'

while blind procs through walls and floors and on stealthed enemies from 2pc monster sets will hit for 60 pct additional damage.

Parafrost

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

uniq_faznrb18_ESO wrote: »

Holy sheet people, calm yourselves.

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

This doesn't mean that you can't crit in pve anymore. It just means these sets that either a) deals damage or b) heal will no longer crit. It doesn't say you don't have crit sets anymore like Leviathan or Toothrow. It's sets like selene or Velidreth that will be affected. It's the proc that won't crit, not your own crit chance or damage.

For God's sake read on. They even put a "they still like the concept of these sets". Why would a crit from a proc have much effect on your own overall dps? It's suppose to be bonus damage anyway, dungeons can be done without the sets in the first place. It helps but your build is the most important component. Holy hell read the notes properly before even making assumptions. And we haven't even seen the full notes yet.

@uniq_faznrb18_ESO

Zenimax online has a tendancy to miss the mark entirely, outright ignore their players on issues, or just do wildly far-reaching things without understanding the consequences of them. They also have a tendancy to express one sentiment, then do another thing entirely.

Forgive those of us who've seen this pattern emerge before for being skeptical and enraged beforehand. When you need to fight these changes, not that it does much good, for a long time now, you tend to start working against this sort of thing immediately.

If you dont understand why the proc sets not critting is an issue, read through alot of the comments on this thread. We may not have the entire patch notes yet, but this, combined with other changes, could do serious damage to PVE. All for PVP's sake.

And it does not fix the problem as many PVPers say. The sheer volume of procs is still going to make this a change that does nothing.

The best case senario is we are pointlessly nerfed for PVP only for ZOS to scratch their head as to why PVPers continue whining. It wont matter they can no longer crit, a dude wearing viper, red mountain and Velindreth will still do upwards of 10 K burst.

The worst case senario is multiple facets of PVE are broken and PVP is not changed in the slightest.

I understand where you stand on this but honestly, before we even judge on something, let's not make it so like as if it will end pve as we know it.

I have read through the comments but most, if not all, stated that crit is needed to finish bosses. Millions of health. Procs just assisted in the matter, not the crux of it. You don't need Procs to crit in the first place. Like I said, it helped but it's not a crux. It's your build and your rotation that matters. Gear matters too but you won't get high dps with only heavy attacks yeah?

However, what the change should have been was to remove monster sets from the PvP scene and / or to introduce new PvP sets only. Then under update 15, you introduce changing armor styles with master crafting.

The idea to implement no crit or no proc crit in battle spirit is not useful imo. Impen is useful now, why render it useless if a no crit blanket change be done in cyrodill?

Again, it's not that sets that has crit in them be changed to no crit. It's sets that has a damage or heal component to it that won't crit. As I said in my example, it's sets like selene, Velidreth, valkyn etc. The change to pve would just be your build. Many were basically build to the one facet of the proc set, which is a one trick pony in my mind.

Ah I don't know mate, forums are great for good info but when people go up in arms, raising pitchforks and just go berserk on false info, that's just wrong.

Its much different in trials. The damage of those proc sets increase with warhorn up(major force). Proc sets do a ton of damage to add pulls and help considerably on boss fights. This is a tricky thing they are doing as well. Who knows what will be broken if they make this change(talkin about crit being messed up completely and none of our attacks crit). Just like how the gap closer change caused people to be able to gap close onto keeps.