Update 13 - Sneak peak notes

Syiccal

off subject...
I'd like to see some decent ww changes.
the sustain in ww is terrible in pvp with main heal using magika and skills being so expensive.
I think it be kl to increase dmg with multiple ww running together like pack bonus

Minalan

The proc set crit nerf isn't going to fix the viper, veli, SA, incap combo killing people instantly. Proc sets need a global cooldown as an incentive not to stack two or three of them.

I have absolutely no problem reducing proc set damage. A majority of your DPS should not be coming from your armor.

Toc de Malsvi

arun_rajputb16_ESO wrote: »

.... But but... Don't most PvP players wear impen gear, negating the crit hit. So this won't really effect PvP. It will heavily effect pve though.

I used to laugh at people when they said ZOS staff don't play this game... But I'm starting to come around...

You are operating under a rather important fallacy that Impen actually negates critical damage. It does not, it only reduces it, you cannot negate critical damage, it will still be more than a non critical attack.

Impen smooths damage by lowering spike damage from critical hits, thus giving the player a chance to survive spike damage and heal. Even in PVP critical hits are larger than non criticals and, even in PVP critical hits increase spike damage.

By removing critical hits from proc sets means proc sets will still be valuable but the top end spike damage will be lower as they cannot increase through critically hitting.

SodanTok

Koolio wrote: »

sodantokb16_ESO wrote: »

Koolio wrote: »

Waseem wrote: »

Everything there is welcome, now tanks wont do 12k dps on aoe for equipping grothdar for pledges... More sets will be viable too, a mix of kena/ilambris and such will be useful too
Proc sets were not OP just in pvp, they were in pve too.. Crying for 2k dps loss is pointless.. You are already wasting your time playing video games, extra 2 mins wont change that

2 mins per boss. 4 bosses per dungeon. Add extra 2 for hard mode. 10 min extra per dungeon. 3 dungeons per day. 12 characters slots. 6 extra hours of game time to just do pledges.
And other weaker sets that "procced" damage are even more useless. Overwhelming Surge. Useless. Ashen Grip. Useless.

10m more per dungeon is reasonable. What is not is playing 3 dungeons a day on 12 characters. In short, it will have impact only on special snowflakes.

So because I play a lot it justifies 6 more hours a day of playtime.

No, because you play a lot you will be affected more. That may give you reason to be angry, but that is really all that you are entitled to. 99.9% of players play much less than you. Only few months ago, there was only 1 veteran pledge and most of the proc sets that will get nerfed were not present.

Publius_Scipio

Trashyratchet wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

Trashyratchet wrote: »

Completely removing crit chance in PvE seems lazy and reckless. PvE pretty much revolves around crit modifiers. Probably going to find very little use for 2 piece monster sets for DD's in PvE.

The no crit chance is only for the monster set procs. Why is this a big issue? You can still crit melee and the rest of your skills as has always been the case.

Consider the time spent grinding those perfect trait monster sets. Then consider finding them all useless because it breaks PvP. Lets face it, when your DPS is built around crit chance and crit damage, you just aren't going to use a 2 piece monster set that stands zero chance to crit. You'll have better DPS just chucking one of the pieces. It's kind of a bummer because some of them are really cool.

If you mainly PvP, then you wouldn't care. I don't expect you to understand or care. I casually play PvP, so frankly, the proc sets in there annoy me from time to time, but I don't lose sleep over it. But I don't blame a hardcore PvP player for being right infuriated over broken aspects of it. So I feel you all for being pissed. But, failing to at least acknowledging the reasons why a PvE player would be miffed is just self centered and juvenile. If you are running things like vet MoL, which still doesn't have enough completions to fill a leader-board on PS4, it is a big deal. Losing all proc crit, considering crit modifiers and war horn, over a 9 - 10 minute boss encounter for 8 DD's, that is a big DPS loss for the group.

So look, PvP folks have been yelling about it since One Tamriel dropped, and ZoS made these changes. You didn't hear us trying to muzzle your outcry. Now, the changes will effectively render 2 piece monster sets useless in PvE, and it's our turn to complain. So show please show the same respect and allow us our outlet to complain.

I'm trying to be civil. A couple of those sets were way OP in PvP. I would just have hoped they would have found a better solution that just taking all crit chance from all 2 piece monster sets on both fronts.

You and everyone else is entitled to feel how they want. But from a tease of patch notes, something that hasn't gone to PTS, hasn't made it to live, hasn't been in the hands of the player base..... The amount and tone of the outrage that PvE is finished is crazy.

So I don't know if you all grinded proc sets just to be able to crit chance the proc or what. But proc base damage is pretty strong crit or no crit. Everyone will still be CRITTING all over the place with everything else. I don't see an asteroid rocketing towards PvE Land at mach speeds if I am to be truthful about my view on this.

And again, this is all with the caveat that nothing is finalized and ZOS never said that they won't continue to monitor the situation and make future changes accordingly.

the_man_of_steal

Does this mean healing procs and resource procs also wont crit ever?... Zos I see ur logic but why dont you just half the chance or critting for procs and call it a day. NEVER critting is a significant blunder IMHO.

EnemyOfDaState

Sigh PVP players crying for "balance" messing things up for PVE again. GG

Sugaroverdose

the_man_of_steal wrote: »

Does this mean healing procs and resource procs also wont crit ever?... Zos I see ur logic but why dont you just half the chance or critting for procs and call it a day. NEVER critting is a significant blunder IMHO.

Why they ever should crit? Proc sets don't even scale with your spell/wep dmg and resource pool, so it's actually logical that they should not scale with your critrate.

Dragonnord

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

@ZOS_RichLambert Don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's perfect how it is now. Don't punish PvE because of PvP.

Lot of players that play solo rely and depend on the proc set crits to kill packs of mobs and so survive, mostly in hard content (vMA for example), so you are punishing them!!!

Don't make SOLO play even harder than what it is now.

You want to punish solo play? Remove pet tanking from sorcerers. That's an issue, not proc sets crit.

Please don't BREAK something that is right!

Dev

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Oh know i'm going to lose rough;y 3% dps because my proc sets can't crit.

However will i handle such huge set back in pve now? What am i going to do when i'm busy ignoring boss mechanics in my 30s boss burst? The boss will live 2s longer, this could be wipe worthy.

Like come on people really?

why are you getting arrogant with this update, its not like they actually fixed what kept killing you in pvp. If anything, it will be worse because of all the aoe increased damage. Anyone who survived EoTS before will now die to it. The bridge that everyone loves to fight at will be complete chaos as people just drop from all the aoes. All in all, this could be one of the final nails for pvp, and that part i like.

To semi-paraphrase a line from Game of Thrones, character 'Ramsey Snow':

If you think that Update 13 will have a happy ending, clearly you haven't been paying attention.

The reason i am done, is not because of the 3% difference but the fact that they completely and totally missing the point. If PVE is so trivial to them, then i will take my money to their competition. I drop about 160$ per year for the sub, and another 100$ or so per crown sale, so figure somewhere in the $300-500 per year bracket. I know in the big picture it is not a lot, but still its less money for them.

At the end of it all, i have to ask myself 3 questions:

1. Am i having fun? No, the game is based on rng too much, and is lacking the content needed to keep it interesting.
2. WIll it get better? No, the company is out of touch and continues to prove it with updates like this.
3. is it worth the money? well if i am not having fun, and its not going to get better, and it is clear that the management of the game is unable to make good decisions: Then 'No' would be the correct answer.

I still have a few months left to my sub, however if i could get a refund for the remaining sub time and crowns, i would take it and leave. i know they wont, because as with many greedy companies they make sure they can keep your money when not providing any value.

I have lost any confidence in their management. I will read the patch notes and see what else they have broken, but for now i have lost any motivation to ever be bothered with another zos or bethesda product. I wont even buy es6 whenever they release it, and most certainly not on pre-order after the ESO launch disaster.

Godspeed

I always thought players who identified as being pvpers were the biggest whiners. After skimming this thread. I guess I was wrong.

Wollust

Dev wrote: »

leepalmer95 wrote: »

Oh know i'm going to lose rough;y 3% dps because my proc sets can't crit.

However will i handle such huge set back in pve now? What am i going to do when i'm busy ignoring boss mechanics in my 30s boss burst? The boss will live 2s longer, this could be wipe worthy.

Like come on people really?

why are you getting arrogant with this update, its not like they actually fixed what kept killing you in pvp. If anything, it will be worse because of all the aoe increased damage. Anyone who survived EoTS before will now die to it. The bridge that everyone loves to fight at will be complete chaos as people just drop from all the aoes. All in all, this could be one of the final nails for pvp, and that part i like.

To semi-paraphrase a line from Game of Thrones, character 'Ramsey Snow':

If you think that Update 13 will have a happy ending, clearly you haven't been paying attention.

The reason i am done, is not because of the 3% difference but the fact that they completely and totally missing the point. If PVE is so trivial to them, then i will take my money to their competition. I drop about 160$ per year for the sub, and another 100$ or so per crown sale, so figure somewhere in the $300-500 per year bracket. I know in the big picture it is not a lot, but still its less money for them.

At the end of it all, i have to ask myself 3 questions:

1. Am i having fun? No, the game is based on rng too much, and is lacking the content needed to keep it interesting.
2. WIll it get better? No, the company is out of touch and continues to prove it with updates like this.
3. is it worth the money? well if i am not having fun, and its not going to get better, and it is clear that the management of the game is unable to make good decisions: Then 'No' would be the correct answer.

I still have a few months left to my sub, however if i could get a refund for the remaining sub time and crowns, i would take it and leave. i know they wont, because as with many greedy companies they make sure they can keep your money when not providing any value.

I have lost any confidence in their management. I will read the patch notes and see what else they have broken, but for now i have lost any motivation to ever be bothered with another zos or bethesda product. I wont even buy es6 whenever they release it, and most certainly not on pre-order after the ESO launch disaster.

Does this mean you're not gonna make any more biased polls on the forums?

Hurray

ManwithBeard9

CarbonX wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

@ZOS_RichLambert Don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's perfect how it is now. Don't punish PvE because of PvP.

Lot of players that play solo rely and depend on the proc set crits to kill packs of mobs and so survive, mostly in hard content (vMA for example), so you are punishing them!!!

Don't make SOLO play even harder than what it is now.

You want to punish solo play? Remove pet tanking from sorcerers. That's an issue, not proc sets crit.

Please don't BREAK something that is right!

If people are soloing GROUP content thanks to proc sets, then yes, they are over performing and need to be nerfed.

Bisenberger96

While a lot of these changes are good, I think it is just pure laziness to not try and work out a way for proc sets to crit in pve and not pvp. There is no reason to not allow proc sets to crit in pve. This change will pretty much negate all your work to the undaunted monster sets in One Tamriel, as nobody will want to run them. As a solution to this, how about you don't allow proc sets to crit as a result of battle spirit, but allow them to crit when battle spirit isn't applied to one's character.

Waffennacht

CarbonX wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

@ZOS_RichLambert Don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's perfect how it is now. Don't punish PvE because of PvP.

Lot of players that play solo rely and depend on the proc set crits to kill packs of mobs and so survive, mostly in hard content (vMA for example), so you are punishing them!!!

Don't make SOLO play even harder than what it is now.

You want to punish solo play? Remove pet tanking from sorcerers. That's an issue, not proc sets crit.

Please don't BREAK something that is right!

Da heck does pets have ANYTHING to do with this?!

Edit: been soloing well before proc sets, can do it without any armor at all...

ku5h

When you think about it. Any 1 single proc set is not OP, but multiple proc sets are. They go and nerf all proc sets across the board making them less viable. Now running 1 proc set wont be viable any more, but stacking multiple procs will be only way to go about it. So in retrospect, what they wanted to prevent they just made only way to go, stack multiple proc sets or dont use them at all. Just give us GCD on procs................................................................pleeeeeeeease.

Sugaroverdose

ku5h wrote: »

When you think about it. Any 1 single proc set is not OP, but multiple proc sets are. They go and nerf all proc sets across the board making them less viable. Now running 1 proc set wont be viable any more, but stacking multiple procs will be only way to go about it. So in retrospect, what they wanted to prevent they just made only way to go, stack multiple proc sets or dont use them at all. Just give us GCD on procs................................................................pleeeeeeeease.

It won't be the only way cause stacking ability crits will outperform them.

Dragonnord

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

@ZOS_RichLambert Don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's perfect how it is now. Don't punish PvE because of PvP.

Lot of players that play solo rely and depend on the proc set crits to kill packs of mobs and so survive, mostly in hard content (vMA for example), so you are punishing them!!!

Don't make SOLO play even harder than what it is now.

You want to punish solo play? Remove pet tanking from sorcerers. That's an issue, not proc sets crit.

Please don't BREAK something that is right!

If people are soloing GROUP content thanks to proc sets, then yes, they are over performing and need to be nerfed.

@ManwithBeard9 If ZOS don't want players to solo-play why they are then allowed to enter a group zone or dungeon instead of getting a "Sorry, this is a group only area" message?

If you allow them to solo enter a group area and do the content, by the way, currently something very fun and enjoyable since running in groups it's so easy and boring nowadays, then don't punish the solo players and average players for your own mistake.

Toc de Malsvi

ku5h wrote: »

When you think about it. Any 1 single proc set is not OP, but multiple proc sets are. They go and nerf all proc sets across the board making them less viable. Now running 1 proc set wont be viable any more, but stacking multiple procs will be only way to go about it. So in retrospect, what they wanted to prevent they just made only way to go, stack multiple proc sets or dont use them at all. Just give us GCD on procs................................................................pleeeeeeeease.

Actually no.

The percentage nerf you receive is much larger the more proc sets you run.

Just looking at the stamina proc sets Lambert used in his parse it appears it would be a 2-3% loss per proc set used. Using 3 proc sets netted a 7.3% loss, using only Kraughs would have been a 2% loss.

It is worse stacking proc sets which is kind of exactly what they intended.

Orgub_gro_Yagash

timidobserver wrote: »

How this will play out.

PvPrs: Stacking proc sets for burst OP. Help.
ZOS: Okay we are nerfing proc set crit in PvE and PvP.
PvErs: Wait what. Why does have anything to do with me?
PvPrs: Trolololol PvE got nerfed!!!
PvPers: but wait. Nerfing proc set crit doesn't actually address my issue.
ZOS:

haha, made my day

Rohamad_Ali

How far away are we from update 13 on pts ?

ManwithBeard9

CarbonX wrote: »

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

CarbonX wrote: »

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

@ZOS_RichLambert Don't do it!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! It's perfect how it is now. Don't punish PvE because of PvP.

Lot of players that play solo rely and depend on the proc set crits to kill packs of mobs and so survive, mostly in hard content (vMA for example), so you are punishing them!!!

Don't make SOLO play even harder than what it is now.

You want to punish solo play? Remove pet tanking from sorcerers. That's an issue, not proc sets crit.

Please don't BREAK something that is right!

If people are soloing GROUP content thanks to proc sets, then yes, they are over performing and need to be nerfed.

@ManwithBeard9 If ZOS don't want players to solo-play why they are then allowed to enter a group zone or dungeon instead of getting a "Sorry, this is a group only area" message?

If you allow them to solo enter a group area and do the content, by the way, currently something very fun and enjoyable since running in groups it's so easy and boring nowadays, then don't punish the solo players and average players for your own mistake.

You know, its almost like they are making small steps to correct that mistake. Interesting.

svartorn

Nothing about the infinite loading screens in Cyrodiil.

Guess I'll keep boycotting it.

Toc de Malsvi

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

How far away are we from update 13 on pts ?

http://www.elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/12/06/introducing-homestead

Just says January for PTS.

stevepdodson_ESO888

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Once again a bad change on the proc sets to try and make PvP happy. The burst is fine when fightning mobs with millions of health or that one shot or nearly one shot players. This should had either been left alone or figured out a way to turn the crit off while in Cyrodiil only.

You will never be able to balance PvE items in PvP settings it's impossible stop trying to do so, and just make items and skills that can only be used in PvE or PvP content.

and yet they decide to let you now just buy Overland sets with AP without properly addressing the issue

as soon as everyone start buying the sets they can use for the next exploit then we will hear the "nerf it" cry go out

when will ZOS learn to make completely separate sets that only work in either PvE or PvP...my guess would be never

so instead lets all just go and hide in our new expensive houses and play SIMS until they can come out with some real new content

ManwithBeard9

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Once again a bad change on the proc sets to try and make PvP happy. The burst is fine when fightning mobs with millions of health or that one shot or nearly one shot players. This should had either been left alone or figured out a way to turn the crit off while in Cyrodiil only.

You will never be able to balance PvE items in PvP settings it's impossible stop trying to do so, and just make items and skills that can only be used in PvE or PvP content.

and yet they decide to let you now just buy Overland sets with AP without properly addressing the issue

as soon as everyone start buying the sets they can use for the next exploit then we will hear the "nerf it" cry go out

when will ZOS learn to make completely separate sets that only work in either PvE or PvP...my guess would be never

so instead lets all just go and hide in our new expensive houses and play SIMS until they can come out with some real new content

Except the sets are green or blue at the highest which means they arent worth it.

Kuramas9tails

I guess we will have to see how this pans out then. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Toc de Malsvi

ManwithBeard9 wrote: »

stevepdodson_ESO888 wrote: »

DMuehlhausen wrote: »

Once again a bad change on the proc sets to try and make PvP happy. The burst is fine when fightning mobs with millions of health or that one shot or nearly one shot players. This should had either been left alone or figured out a way to turn the crit off while in Cyrodiil only.

You will never be able to balance PvE items in PvP settings it's impossible stop trying to do so, and just make items and skills that can only be used in PvE or PvP content.

and yet they decide to let you now just buy Overland sets with AP without properly addressing the issue

as soon as everyone start buying the sets they can use for the next exploit then we will hear the "nerf it" cry go out

when will ZOS learn to make completely separate sets that only work in either PvE or PvP...my guess would be never

so instead lets all just go and hide in our new expensive houses and play SIMS until they can come out with some real new content

Except the sets are green or blue at the highest which means they arent worth it.

Maybe for Jewerly. Upgrading to purple or gold isn't hard.

MrBrandon

ZOS_RichLambert wrote: »

Hi All! As we near the end of 2016, I wanted to give a quick sneak peak into some of the more hotly debated topics recently and shed some light on how we plan on addressing them for Update 13. Keep in mind this isn't everything coming in the update... and definitely not any of the class balance changes - you will have to wait for the natch potes for the full list.

Proc sets
We are going to be making some changes to these sets to balance out their burst potential. When the update hits, any set that has a damage or heal proc component to it will no longer crit in PVE or PVP. We chose this direction as we like the concept of these sets and still want them to be interesting and viable, we just wanted to tone down their overall burst potential. (sustain is slightly reduced, while burst potential is significantly reduced)

AoE cap adjustments
First a bit of background - AoE caps are there to help keep single-target abilities effective in PvP. In addition, they allow players the chance to survive some of the larger-scale battles a bit longer. (especially newer players)
We are going to modify the damage caps so that players take more damage. This will have an adverse effect on the newer players in Cyrodiil - and will make AoE more effective, but will help combat the balled-up “stack on crown” groups and spread players out more. The changes will be:

• The first 6 players hit always take 100% damage
• The next 7 to 30 players take 75% damage (for reference on live this is currently 50%)
• The next 31 to 60 players take 50% damage (for reference on live this is currently 25%)
• Players past 60 take 0 damage (for reference on live this is also currently 0%)

We are starting fairly conservatively with this initial round of changes and once we have had a chance to see how they affect things in Cyrodiil on a large scale, we will evaluate further changes.

Poison fixes / adjustments
All poisons now share the same global cooldown and no longer have individual cooldowns. This means that when Update 13 goes live, it will no longer be possible to proc a poison more than once every 10 seconds.In addition, we’ve been able to track down and fix a separate issue where poisons could sometimes double proc.

Stuck in combat in Cyrodiil
This has been an ongoing issue in Cyrodiil for a long time now – due to the nature of combat in Cyrodiil there were cascading threat issues between players. (i.e. – You fight another player and all the threat they have on them is transferred to you) We’ve changed how threat is transferred between players and when Update 13 goes live, you should always drop combat properly after 6 seconds of ending a battle. Note: If you are grouped with other players and they are actively in combat, you will still be considered in combat as well.

Charging into loadscreens in Cyrodiil
We think we have a fix! It’s been really, really hard for us to repro this one internally, and therefore really difficult to fix. A huge thank you to everyone who has submitted locations and videos of how to repro the issue. If you get it again after Update 13, please let us know. (Provide the date/time & campaign - if you have a video of it, even better)

PvPers want more things to spend AP on
We've been working on ways to add more things that you can purchase with AP. With Update 13, we are updating the PVP vendors in your home keeps and adding a new item - Zone Bags. These Zone Bags contain a set item from an overland zone and will scale to your level. For example: the Auridon Zone Bag will only have Queen's Elegance, Twin Sisters and Veiled Heritance item sets in it. The bags will cost 5K AP and always contain one green or blue quality item in them.

Again, this is just a sneak peak... not an exhaustive list. There is a lot more coming in Update 13, including a whole bunch of balance fixes. (Patch Notes aren't quite done yet, so hang in there for awhile longer)

Enjoy your holidays and please be safe on New Years!

What about buff timers and dps trackers?

BlackEar

Rip grothdar... god damn it.