Miat's PVP Alerts Addon

Kutsuu

Another fun fact is you can troll people who have this addon. Here's what you do: Stand about 25-30m away from them. Get on your melee bar (2h, DW, 1h/shield whatever), target them (keep cursor pointed at them so they are highlighted/focused), and just spam heavy attacks. They will be spammed with notifications that you're stealth attacking them. Last night every time I found someone using the addon, I would follow them around for a while just spamming heavy attacks. It's hilarious to watch them dodge around, spam buffs, try to find me, hold block, and generally spaz out while I'm just sitting on a rock swinging at air.

Minno

Kutsuu wrote: »

Another fun fact is you can troll people who have this addon. Here's what you do: Stand about 25-30m away from them. Get on your melee bar (2h, DW, 1h/shield whatever), target them (keep cursor pointed at them so they are highlighted/focused), and just spam heavy attacks. They will be spammed with notifications that you're stealth attacking them. Last night every time I found someone using the addon, I would follow them around for a while just spamming heavy attacks. It's hilarious to watch them dodge around, spam buffs, try to find me, hold block, and generally spaz out while I'm just sitting on a rock swinging at air.

Ok I'm fine with the add-on now. I get to break their stam pool without using any resources.

Kutsuu

Minno wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Another fun fact is you can troll people who have this addon. Here's what you do: Stand about 25-30m away from them. Get on your melee bar (2h, DW, 1h/shield whatever), target them (keep cursor pointed at them so they are highlighted/focused), and just spam heavy attacks. They will be spammed with notifications that you're stealth attacking them. Last night every time I found someone using the addon, I would follow them around for a while just spamming heavy attacks. It's hilarious to watch them dodge around, spam buffs, try to find me, hold block, and generally spaz out while I'm just sitting on a rock swinging at air.

Ok I'm fine with the add-on now. I get to break their stam pool without using any resources.

The best part is if they eventually think you're never going to attack them and stop trying to block/avoid you, you actually attack them and they die. Lol.

NedicWildling

Joy_Division wrote: »

It's not just the incoming attacks from stealth that are the problem with this add-on.

A big problem is the feature a lot of people like: the ability to instantly know how many enemy factions players (as compared to your own) are there. This is the military equivalent of playing poker with your cards face down on the table and renders the requirement for a commander to make calculated good strategic decisions moot.

Just last night I heard over TS: "there are 29 Reds in Bleakers, and we have over 40 here. Just storm the back flag." No thought and no scouting necessary.

I know many people really like the player counter feature so they can more easily engage in selective memory when they get zerged as opposed to zerging others down, but it's trash because you get instant information to what exactly military commanders have wanted to know ever since there has been war: how many bad guys the enemy has on "the other side of the hill."

Completely agree with this, I think most people are looking at it from a 1vX perspective, and it certainly does it's job in that sense, and removes a lot of the heartache of getting ganked when there is already a substantial number of people on you, looking at it from that side the addon is golden and does it's job, but then it also empowers and gives awareness to people that don't have the ability to look at a situation and make a decision based on what they see themselves, rather this addon gives them all the info they would need without having to look at something and make an informed decision.

Minno

Kutsuu wrote: »

Minno wrote: »

Kutsuu wrote: »

Another fun fact is you can troll people who have this addon. Here's what you do: Stand about 25-30m away from them. Get on your melee bar (2h, DW, 1h/shield whatever), target them (keep cursor pointed at them so they are highlighted/focused), and just spam heavy attacks. They will be spammed with notifications that you're stealth attacking them. Last night every time I found someone using the addon, I would follow them around for a while just spamming heavy attacks. It's hilarious to watch them dodge around, spam buffs, try to find me, hold block, and generally spaz out while I'm just sitting on a rock swinging at air.

Ok I'm fine with the add-on now. I get to break their stam pool without using any resources.

The best part is if they eventually think you're never going to attack them and stop trying to block/avoid you, you actually attack them and they die. Lol.

Lol yea. it's a terrible add-on that automates information that still requires you to interpret as a player. I hope the heavy attack strategy wrecks those copy-cat players more than it allows them advantage "creep".

It does however still open the flood gates to what can be accepted by ZoS. Despite the limitations by the API, it's scary what information can already be available for use to gain an advantage.

Just lock the API. It gives zos the benefit to control what gets used in their game which will give them a better foundation for future changes/balance issues because everyone will be using the same UI and features. Don't even port over a dmg counter, guild store add-on, or gear swapper at first.

Just lock it and let us play the game you intend so we can at least suggest changes based on what PC and consules can see/use.

Darnathian

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The irony is that Miat himself is a Stamina NB and probably NA/PC Dominion's best ganker.

LOL it's not ironic and not coincidental at all that he's using/creating stuff like this and is a "good" ganker.

Can we not throw hate at the addon author? He didn't have to release this addon, he could have kept it private and given him and his friends a huge competitive advantage in PVP (and then he wouldn't run the risk of the addon getting nerfed) At the very least this addon being public levels the playing field.

If you don't think that this is happening with the same group of players that keep coming up then you are crazy not this op tho. Same circle of friends gets called out for shady stuff

Publius_Scipio

I don't think Miat should be banned or punished. He's a khajiit irl and used what was available through ZOS itself to cook this up. What this means is ZOS must immediately revisit API access and make any necessary changes. Who knows what people could have created and used that no one here even knows about.

If anything give Miat coummunity service. Not maximum security incarceration where the likes of german and dubzug ended up.

Derra

LeifErickson wrote: »

Miat's cc tracker add-on should be removed as well. A player should recognize when and what they are cced by from experience, not from an add-on.

I´d agree with that statement - if the game was actually working properly even in lag.

Right now i can make crystal fragments animation vanish into thin air and there is no way of telling what cced you. Same thing can happen with any CC.
No fear animation - no problem.
Stunned by snipe/sneakattack without the enemy character even appearing on your screen. Happens every day.

Until all these issues are fixed i respectfully disagree because there is no way of telling what cced you from experience if you simply see nothing.

Rickter

ZOS is already aware of this addon. Check out this thread:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/308947/miats-pvp-alerts#latest

Jessica Folsom edited the OP so devs def got a look at it.

God_flakes

Valencer wrote: »

People are making a mountain out of a molehill again, tbh. This isnt close to cheating and it's nowhere near as bad as I remember some of the addons to be right before release, when the API allowed some crazy stuff like seeing your opponent's remaining magicka/stamina.

But Im sure this will fuel certain people's CE/macro/hacks QQ some more.

Yes because CE and macros have *never* been used before....

God_flakes

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The irony is that Miat himself is a Stamina NB and probably NA/PC Dominion's best ganker.

LOL it's not ironic and not coincidental at all that he's using/creating stuff like this and is a "good" ganker.

Can we not throw hate at the addon author? He didn't have to release this addon, he could have kept it private and given him and his friends a huge competitive advantage in PVP (and then he wouldn't run the risk of the addon getting nerfed.) At the very least this addon being public levels the playing field.

I may be going out on a limb here but...maybe? the author has used it a long time and had a massive advantage all to himself (and his "inner circle" a long time. ) and decided out of boredom/curiosity to just now release it and is enjoying the reaction immensely.

Slow clap. :clap:

GreenSoup2HoT

Glad i play console. Good luck pc users.

pcar944

surprised , I don't think I commented on this yet

if you honestly need anything like this to play a game - especially PVP - please retire to PVE zone ... or uninstall the game

God_flakes

pcar944 wrote: »

surprised , I don't think I commented on this yet

if you honestly need anything like this to play a game - especially PVP - please retire to PVE zone ... or uninstall the game

Xsorus

Posted in other thread, basically this addon is such a huge advantage they either need to change the API or provide it into the base UI itself.

rfennell_ESO

God_flakes wrote: »

arkansas_ESO wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The irony is that Miat himself is a Stamina NB and probably NA/PC Dominion's best ganker.

LOL it's not ironic and not coincidental at all that he's using/creating stuff like this and is a "good" ganker.

Can we not throw hate at the addon author? He didn't have to release this addon, he could have kept it private and given him and his friends a huge competitive advantage in PVP (and then he wouldn't run the risk of the addon getting nerfed.) At the very least this addon being public levels the playing field.

I may be going out on a limb here but...maybe? the author has used it a long time and had a massive advantage all to himself (and his "inner circle" a long time. ) and decided out of boredom/curiosity to just now release it and is enjoying the reaction immensely.

Slow clap. :clap:

I'd have to concur with the concept of not throwing hate at the addon author.

Normally I'm against all the bs-play that occurs, but if ZOS has that information available in the API... it's a clever addon that takes advantage of what they put out there. Actually it's an event that was always being broadcast, all this addon does is apply those known events to a function.

There is obviously more being used out there than this... CE being just the tip of the proverbial iceberg. I've heard the names of the other programs that are being used from time to time, and this addon is quite benign comparatively.

In games that have allowed addons, there have been many that ended up gutted due to them being a bit too clever for their own good. I just don't see a point in going after clever...

Satiar

It's a pretty stupid addon, and it's only useful if you're more interested in winning than you are playing the system. I won't use it as a raid lead. Like, getting stealth bombed sucks in this meta cuz it means death, but I'd rather be surprised by an ambush then know it was coming all along because of a freaking addon. It's just.... Deliciously useful, but I think long term that will lead to problems. I hope it goes away before it simply becomes mandatory.

Rickter

i asked this before and i dont think anyone commented, but does this actually break anything in the TOS?

also, what if the biggest offending features were removed? i like the idea of a "radar" and KOS list, but i dont like the idea of being alerted that im being targeted.

i think we can find a compromise.

vamp_emily

I think the greatest addon of all timez award goes to "Awesome Guild Store"

altemriel

this addon is *** ******* ********** *****, this one does not like to be detected while stealthed, good that stealth is bugged by itself, now also a nerf addon, wth???


@ZOS_RichLambert

Kutsuu

Guys the author of this addon did the community a service by releasing it publicly. Now that I've seen what it can do, the mystery for me is solved - there were other players using something similar (probably a private version of this addon) long before this went public. I've been so confused in the few cases I ran into it. I'd wind up a bow heavy and they would instantly dismount and block/buff. It would have stayed that way forever without a public eye on it. Now ZOS has to face it.

RinaldoGandolphi

Rickter wrote: »

i asked this before and i dont think anyone commented, but does this actually break anything in the TOS?
.

Yes it most certainly does

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/eula

4. Limitations and Restrictions

C. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game or adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or his/her experience of playing the Game;

The TOS says what this guy created is in violation of the TOS and he probably should be banned for it. It doesn't matter if its in the API or not the TOS says its not allowed period!.

Of course ZOS seems to "selectively enforce" their TOS and often does not punish, nullify, or thus enforce breech on contract on those who clearly break the terms of the agreement.

The TOS says this type of Addon is not allowed, its crystal clear...doesn't matter if its in the API or not, any addon that modifies the game or "Adversely impacts any other person playing the game" is not allowed....an Addon that wanrs people ahead of time of stealth attacks, tells you how many people are around, tells you when someone stealth most definitely "Adversely impacts people playing the game, especially those not using it"

Minno

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

i asked this before and i dont think anyone commented, but does this actually break anything in the TOS?
.

Yes it most certainly does

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/eula

4. Limitations and Restrictions

C. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game or adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or his/her experience of playing the Game;

The TOS says what this guy created is in violation of the TOS and he probably should be banned for it. It doesn't matter if its in the API or not the TOS says its not allowed period!.

Of course ZOS seems to "selectively enforce" their TOS and often does not punish, nullify, or thus enforce breech on contract on those who clearly break the terms of the agreement.

The TOS says this type of Addon is not allowed, its crystal clear...doesn't matter if its in the API or not, any addon that modifies the game or "Adversely impacts any other person playing the game" is not allowed....an Addon that wanrs people ahead of time of stealth attacks, tells you how many people are around, tells you when someone stealth most definitely "Adversely impacts people playing the game, especially those not using it"

Sadly, most of their Tos is also vague generalizations too. So it's kind of a crap shoot expecting them to enforce anything.

While I do agree the ban would be correct, zos will find a way to nullify it.

Manoekin

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

i asked this before and i dont think anyone commented, but does this actually break anything in the TOS?
.

Yes it most certainly does

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/eula

4. Limitations and Restrictions

C. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game or adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or his/her experience of playing the Game;

The TOS says what this guy created is in violation of the TOS and he probably should be banned for it. It doesn't matter if its in the API or not the TOS says its not allowed period!.

Of course ZOS seems to "selectively enforce" their TOS and often does not punish, nullify, or thus enforce breech on contract on those who clearly break the terms of the agreement.

The TOS says this type of Addon is not allowed, its crystal clear...doesn't matter if its in the API or not, any addon that modifies the game or "Adversely impacts any other person playing the game" is not allowed....an Addon that wanrs people ahead of time of stealth attacks, tells you how many people are around, tells you when someone stealth most definitely "Adversely impacts people playing the game, especially those not using it"

ROFL.

That line specifically mentions only things that are unauthorized. This is authorized as you said.

Minno

Manoekin wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

i asked this before and i dont think anyone commented, but does this actually break anything in the TOS?
.

Yes it most certainly does

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/eula

4. Limitations and Restrictions

C. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game or adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or his/her experience of playing the Game;

The TOS says what this guy created is in violation of the TOS and he probably should be banned for it. It doesn't matter if its in the API or not the TOS says its not allowed period!.

Of course ZOS seems to "selectively enforce" their TOS and often does not punish, nullify, or thus enforce breech on contract on those who clearly break the terms of the agreement.

The TOS says this type of Addon is not allowed, its crystal clear...doesn't matter if its in the API or not, any addon that modifies the game or "Adversely impacts any other person playing the game" is not allowed....an Addon that wanrs people ahead of time of stealth attacks, tells you how many people are around, tells you when someone stealth most definitely "Adversely impacts people playing the game, especially those not using it"

ROFL.

That line specifically mentions only things that are unauthorized. This is authorized as you said.

It says mods first. So based on the language, most mods can be bankable offenses if zos deems it.

Sallington

The big problem with this mod, IMO, is that it gives you information that can't be gathered by any other means. Other addons might do this as well, but this is the only one that give you a combat advantage.

I mean, being able to tell how many enemy forces are in the area, without even being able to see them (inside a keep, stealthed, whatever)? That's ridiculous.

Minno

Manoekin wrote: »

RinaldoGandolphi wrote: »

Rickter wrote: »

i asked this before and i dont think anyone commented, but does this actually break anything in the TOS?
.

Yes it most certainly does

https://account.elderscrollsonline.com/eula

4. Limitations and Restrictions

C. use cheats, automation software (bots), hacks, mods or any other unauthorized third-party software designed to modify the Game or adversely impact any other persons playing of the Game or his/her experience of playing the Game;

The TOS says what this guy created is in violation of the TOS and he probably should be banned for it. It doesn't matter if its in the API or not the TOS says its not allowed period!.

Of course ZOS seems to "selectively enforce" their TOS and often does not punish, nullify, or thus enforce breech on contract on those who clearly break the terms of the agreement.

The TOS says this type of Addon is not allowed, its crystal clear...doesn't matter if its in the API or not, any addon that modifies the game or "Adversely impacts any other person playing the game" is not allowed....an Addon that wanrs people ahead of time of stealth attacks, tells you how many people are around, tells you when someone stealth most definitely "Adversely impacts people playing the game, especially those not using it"

ROFL.

That line specifically mentions only things that are unauthorized. This is authorized as you said.

There is also this gem:

You will not use or permit third parties to use the Software Utilities or the Customized Game Materials created by you for any commercial purposes, including but not limited to distributing, leasing, licensing, renting, selling, or otherwise exploiting, transferring or assigning the ownership of such Customized Game Materials;

Edit: and this one

use any unauthorized third-party software that intercepts, "mines", or otherwise collects information from or through the Game or the Service, including without limitation any software that reads areas of RAM used by the Game to store information about a character or the game environment; provided, however, that ZeniMax may, at its sole and absolute discretion, allow the use of certain third party user interfaces and other third party software;

Minno

Sallington wrote: »

The big problem with this mod, IMO, is that it gives you information that can't be gathered by any other means. Other addons might do this as well, but this is the only one that give you a combat advantage.

I mean, being able to tell how many enemy forces are in the area, without even being able to see them (inside a keep, stealthed, whatever)? That's ridiculous.

It's really up to zos to determine which mod is appropriate. Sadly there isn't a white list que that would have stopped this mod or others we can't see.

Valencer

God_flakes wrote: »

Valencer wrote: »

People are making a mountain out of a molehill again, tbh. This isnt close to cheating and it's nowhere near as bad as I remember some of the addons to be right before release, when the API allowed some crazy stuff like seeing your opponent's remaining magicka/stamina.

But Im sure this will fuel certain people's CE/macro/hacks QQ some more.

Yes because CE and macros have *never* been used before....

On PC EU there's people who (Im pretty sure) spend more time whispering people about how theyll mass-report them for "cheating" than they do actually playing the game and maybe getting better at it. Absolutely sick of this mentality.

arkansas_ESO

Rickter wrote: »

i asked this before and i dont think anyone commented, but does this actually break anything in the TOS?

also, what if the biggest offending features were removed? i like the idea of a "radar" and KOS list, but i dont like the idea of being alerted that im being targeted.

i think we can find a compromise.

ZOS has already come out and said they're not taking action against people who use this addon, so if you want to run it you're in the clear