Miat's PVP Alerts Addon

God_flakes

susmitds wrote: »

The irony is that Miat himself is a Stamina NB and probably NA/PC Dominion's best ganker.

LOL it's not ironic and not coincidental at all that he's using/creating stuff like this and is a "good" ganker.

ku5h

Just install CE and be done with it, atleast then you wont be able to lie to yourself your not using 3rd party software to get advatage over other players.

olivesforge

Maybe this is just Zeni's way of balancing animation canceling? They could claim it was intended behavior and move on! Brilliant!

Credit for Miat for making this public - it brings out that there are plenty of other private add-ons and 3rd party software which people are using to gain an unfair advantage.

Dyride

Armitas wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

Also it has probably been used for a long time privately by certain guilds. I have seen people posting absolutely accurate data of gankers in situations that would have been very difficult to detect.

No doubt. I bet there are other private addons as well. I suspect there is one that will dodge for you. I have seen some really janky stuff like when I cast a CC from stealth and the moment the button is depressed the person rolls. Or I'll cast it point blank and they dodge the moment the button goes down. All that is necessary to do it already exists as the game internally informs you when to dodge or block.

If you are paying attention and moving, you can notice your player "hitch" as skills target, similar to the gap closer snare but quicker. This is signal to block or dodge.

I've definitely found people that Cc-break immediately but if you animation cancelling with bash or hitting bash every few secs, it totally makes sense.

Knootewoot

In march 2015 someone mentioned he did a test where some enemy players who where blocking CC attacks only and auto dodge roll as soon as an attack button was fired.

Wouldn't be surprised there was a cheat-on for this also which allowed people to autoblock CC attacks and auto dodge roll attacks since the information is there already.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Knootewoot wrote: »

In march 2015 someone mentioned he did a test where some enemy players who where blocking CC attacks only and auto dodge roll as soon as an attack button was fired.

Wouldn't be surprised there was a cheat-on for this also which allowed people to autoblock CC attacks and auto dodge roll attacks since the information is there already.

I'm glad that some people are figuring out the biggest part of this story isn't what miat released, its what everyone else uses and doesn't release.

DisgracefulMind

So I played around with this addon for a few hours today, and the only real problem I have with it is the channeled alerts for skills being aimed at you. I feel that this part of the add-on is a pretty broken, and really shouldn't be a thing.

Everything else really isn't all that bad. I mean, the listing of stealthed enemy players around you is questionable, but at the same time, I'm not really sure how I feel about it.

One thing I really like about this add-on, though, is the battle log thing. It's pretty fun to see how many DC/AD we killed after a fight
I'll probably disable the other features of the add-on, and just keep the battle log. I don't really see a big use for the rest, personally.

rfennell_ESO

I'm amused at how cheaters cheating comes as a surprise to some.

There has been bs at work in this game for a long while, why people still react to bsers engaging in bs is some funny stuff.

This does explain a certain arrogant poster "faking" it on his stream about whether he knows someone is there or not. ie "Hey, let's see if anyone is around!!!!! *beelines for stealthed player* hey it's "stealthed player"!!!!!

Anyone that has done some stealthing and ganking knows there are "certain" players that will always know you are there. Probably the most amusing is their responses when you catch them knowing you are there. It's always "l2p" and/or "git gud".

I've explained in the past that "git gud" is moron code for "download some cheaty crap".

The sad reality is that ZOS has ignored the honest player's concerns for so long... Now it's all about the streaming scum and every little cheat they are using.

rfennell_ESO

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

In march 2015 someone mentioned he did a test where some enemy players who where blocking CC attacks only and auto dodge roll as soon as an attack button was fired.

Wouldn't be surprised there was a cheat-on for this also which allowed people to autoblock CC attacks and auto dodge roll attacks since the information is there already.

I'm glad that some people are figuring out the biggest part of this story isn't what miat released, its what everyone else uses and doesn't release.

Yep. People would be shocked at the scope of it.

I get insulted and ridiculed here for just insinuating a small portion of it. People wonder why I don't attach a name... but I ain't crazy and I'm also not full of crap... All it takes is understanding the game and then reacting to things you know ought not be possible to see the level of shady that ZOS has mostly ignored for years now.

Publius_Scipio

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

In march 2015 someone mentioned he did a test where some enemy players who where blocking CC attacks only and auto dodge roll as soon as an attack button was fired.

Wouldn't be surprised there was a cheat-on for this also which allowed people to autoblock CC attacks and auto dodge roll attacks since the information is there already.

I'm glad that some people are figuring out the biggest part of this story isn't what miat released, its what everyone else uses and doesn't release.

Yep. People would be shocked at the scope of it.

I get insulted and ridiculed here for just insinuating a small portion of it. People wonder why I don't attach a name... but I ain't crazy and I'm also not full of crap... All it takes is understanding the game and then reacting to things you know ought not be possible to see the level of shady that ZOS has mostly ignored for years now.

He's absolutely right. What have other people whipped up in their digital laboratories and used in ESO that no one even knows about? Either Miat is Stephen Hawking's illegitimate son or playing around with the ESO API's isn't that technical and that many gamers with a certain skill set can tinker around can come up with something rather nefarious.

There absolutely was a reason why PAUL SAGE was very wary about giving the players access to the ESO APIs. And I remember Mr. Atropos of Tamriel Foundry made a big public explanation about why ZOS should allow access to the APIs. Of course he was the guy behind the FTC addon so I guess that made sense.

Paul Sage's BICEPS are bigger than Atropos and the Nord's put together. I remember you Mr. Sage!

RadioheadSh0t

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Knootewoot wrote: »

In march 2015 someone mentioned he did a test where some enemy players who where blocking CC attacks only and auto dodge roll as soon as an attack button was fired.

Wouldn't be surprised there was a cheat-on for this also which allowed people to autoblock CC attacks and auto dodge roll attacks since the information is there already.

I'm glad that some people are figuring out the biggest part of this story isn't what miat released, its what everyone else uses and doesn't release.

Yep. People would be shocked at the scope of it.

I get insulted and ridiculed here for just insinuating a small portion of it. People wonder why I don't attach a name... but I ain't crazy and I'm also not full of crap... All it takes is understanding the game and then reacting to things you know ought not be possible to see the level of shady that ZOS has mostly ignored for years now.

He's absolutely right. What have other people whipped up in their digital laboratories and used in ESO that no one even knows about? Either Miat is Stephen Hawking's illegitimate son or playing around with the ESO API's isn't that technical and that many gamers with a certain skill set can tinker around can come up with something rather nefarious.

There absolutely was a reason why PAUL SAGE was very wary about giving the players access to the ESO APIs. And I remember Mr. Atropos of Tamriel Foundry made a big public explanation about why ZOS should allow access to the APIs. Of course he was the guy behind the FTC addon so I guess that made sense.

Paul Sage's BICEPS are bigger than Atropos and the Nord's put together. I remember you Mr. Sage!

I thought you were an expert on Biceps, Publius. Mr. Sage is obviously crossing his arms and putting his fists under his biceps to puff them out. For Shame!

Chuga_Rei

Tfw you felt like a moron because you found out hundreds of opponents and teammates used CE and all you thought was people occasional used it for nikes.

Now I am taking in the fact that it's likely people use 3rd party addons that make this look like child's play and my mind is blown.


Sigh.

Brynmere

If this allows you to know who is around close by, then I guess you could easily identify people and who they run with usually, and then make a supposition that certain guild groups are around too? Interesting.

Manoekin

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

Tfw you felt like a moron because you found out hundreds of opponents and teammates used CE and all you thought was people occasional used it for nikes.

Now I am taking in the fact that it's likely people use 3rd party addons that make this look like child's play and my mind is blown.


Sigh.

Is there something wrong with my Sub Radar?

Chuga_Rei

I have a specific mod that undresses you, and you only Mano, my sweet prince.

Ishammael

The addon

Derra wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

pjwb16_ESO wrote: »

Only pussys sneak anyways... yes i mean you, you filthy khajiit

Spoken like a true Zerging turtling the next keep with the faction behind them out in the open proudfully boasting they don't use stealth in the sea of Proctatoe soup .

You do realise most people who used to roam solo without stealth now zerg because of stealth ganking?

I freely admit i don´t want to and won´t utilize stealth.

If the first thing that happens when i go into pvp is i get proccshotted from an invisible enemy i just search my own faction zerg and have a go at it.

Stealthganking is what killed soloplay in this game and drives people like me (and i´ve been trying to play solo without not zergsurfing since release in 2014) to just stick to my factions zerg since one tamriel.
Sneak is the problem and i don´t blame anyone who does not want to sneak for zerging anymore. It´s the only thing that lets you find enjoyment if you´re not in a good grp.

100% agree here

Manoekin

Chuga_Rei wrote: »

I have a specific mod that undresses you, and you only Mano, my sweet prince.

Oooooo

KisoValley

All the zerglings are going hard on this thread lmao

Manoekin

KisoValley wrote: »

All the zerglings are going hard on this thread lmao

God_flakes

Stop the hate. Show some love.

KisoValley

God_flakes wrote: »

Stop the hate. Show some love.

Thanks for that amazing picture sir.

Etaniel

When you compare it to what the devs intended and the version of the game we have, yes it's completely over powered.

But then, like Derra said, stealth in itself is a completely overpowered mechanic that is a huge unfair advantage.

What's problematic here imo is that it's an addon, and therefore not readily available to everyone.
Other than that I'm fine with what it does. (maybe not the channel warning)

Rickter

i guess the question is whether this addon directly violates anything in the current ToS or not. I do like the idea. Seems like a really useful addon - but stealth plays a big role in ESO PVP and this addon, while not giving away exact positions, does kinda hurt that aspect of pvp.

I really like how the discussion almost immediately steered away from whether we should have this addon or not, but more of bringing to the attention of everyone on the amount of addons that are created and used by a select few that no one knows about.

Like M***** Raffle - which isnt made available to the public. i honestly never considered those kinds of addons. there's really no telling what people are using these days to enhance their play performance.

IxSTALKERxI

I mean... there is only so much you can do with the API available. This addon is very creative, deriving this kind of information based on player actions. Maybe the information of player actions needs to be a little bit more restricted in some instances.

But for those saying things along the lines of...
"Omg, just think what other addons are out there! all those times i died was because someone was cheating with some OP addon afterall coz like anyone who kills me is clearly exploiting." Are kidding themselves.

I can't really think of anything more OP than this that can be made from the information provided. I personally find too much information on screen overwhelming and I try to keep my UI as simplistic as possible so I can easily see the most important stuff.

Unless someone was to automate actions based on the information eg. CC breaking - but that is not addon related, that's more botting / macros, which could still be done even without information from addons.

Valencer

People are making a mountain out of a molehill again, tbh. This isnt close to cheating and it's nowhere near as bad as I remember some of the addons to be right before release, when the API allowed some crazy stuff like seeing your opponent's remaining magicka/stamina.

But Im sure this will fuel certain people's CE/macro/hacks QQ some more.

Kas

LeifErickson wrote: »

Miat's cc tracker add-on should be removed as well. A player should recognize when and what they are cced by from experience, not from an add-on.

very true. however, that could take the api rework as a trigger to improve some of their visual cues. banners are so much better now that they show their faction. lots of strength of both, negate and eye of the noob come from their rather bad visual indicators.

even worse is meteor that, when there enough people around, has a completely delayed visual which does more harm then good.
i even had this problem duelling in rawl'ka. If I don't relog every 10 minutes I'll see projectiles after I get CC'ed by that very projectile.

by all means, remove an add-on that gives such a large advantage, but also fix whatever makes it necessary.

@op: imho such things should just get removed from the api. same for cyrhud / kill counter flag messages etc. if it's absolutely not visible using the base game, it shouldn't be at all.

PS: same goes for raid notifier for pve. it's just wrong that several events are known by the api before they're show to a palyer without add-ons.

Manoekin

Kas wrote: »

LeifErickson wrote: »

Miat's cc tracker add-on should be removed as well. A player should recognize when and what they are cced by from experience, not from an add-on.

very true. however, that could take the api rework as a trigger to improve some of their visual cues. banners are so much better now that they show their faction. lots of strength of both, negate and eye of the noob come from their rather bad visual indicators.

even worse is meteor that, when there enough people around, has a completely delayed visual which does more harm then good.
i even had this problem duelling in rawl'ka. If I don't relog every 10 minutes I'll see projectiles after I get CC'ed by that very projectile.

by all means, remove an add-on that gives such a large advantage, but also fix whatever makes it necessary.

@op: imho such things should just get removed from the api. same for cyrhud / kill counter flag messages etc. if it's absolutely not visible using the base game, it shouldn't be at all.

PS: same goes for raid notifier for pve. it's just wrong that several events are known by the api before they're show to a palyer without add-ons.

Not even just projectiles. Yesterday I blocked an Invasion charge and dropped block like a second after it hit me and was instantly knocked down by the invasion.

I don't use CC tracker because I can always tell what is good/bad based on what is happening. I don't think most people use it to tell when they are CC'd either... everyone I know uses it to tell when they're in enemy ultimates, and I'm reminded how useful that would be when I blindly walk into invisible negates.

Joy_Division

It's not just the incoming attacks from stealth that are the problem with this add-on.

A big problem is the feature a lot of people like: the ability to instantly know how many enemy factions players (as compared to your own) are there. This is the military equivalent of playing poker with your cards face down on the table and renders the requirement for a commander to make calculated good strategic decisions moot.

Just last night I heard over TS: "there are 29 Reds in Bleakers, and we have over 40 here. Just storm the back flag." No thought and no scouting necessary.

I know many people really like the player counter feature so they can more easily engage in selective memory when they get zerged as opposed to zerging others down, but it's trash because you get instant information to what exactly military commanders have wanted to know ever since there has been war: how many bad guys the enemy has on "the other side of the hill."

arkansas_ESO

God_flakes wrote: »

susmitds wrote: »

The irony is that Miat himself is a Stamina NB and probably NA/PC Dominion's best ganker.

LOL it's not ironic and not coincidental at all that he's using/creating stuff like this and is a "good" ganker.

Can we not throw hate at the addon author? He didn't have to release this addon, he could have kept it private and given him and his friends a huge competitive advantage in PVP (and then he wouldn't run the risk of the addon getting nerfed.) At the very least this addon being public levels the playing field.

Kutsuu

Well I decided to try out the addon to see how I feel about it. While it has been a great help in successfully 1vXing with all the gankers out (stopping them from 1-shotting me while i'm already fighting multiple other people), I think it's a problem that an addon is allowing you to see stealth attacks incoming.

One thing I noticed through testing with a friend is that the counter WILL NOT count people in stealth unless they do something like sprint or unstealth/restealth. Even buffing in stealth does not notify the addon to their presence. Also, the stealthed player can wind up their heavy attack without targeting you, and only target you at the last moment to fire it, and you get almost no warning. I've been using these tidbits to gank people on my NB, and I haven't had anyone successfully stop me with a block or dodge roll yet.

Here's a video. I only used it on my stamsorc, but you can see where I block nightblade gank openers and eat them.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qdEbIsY3eYk