Miat's PVP alerts.

Grabmoore

Skcarkden wrote: »

No backseat moderation?

No Ad Hominem! I respect others opinions, so I expect them to do the same. I am not a mod, so he may go on with his unconstructive hate, but that doesn't mean I won't voice my opinion.

Crown

Runs wrote: »

We will never know how many private addons have been doing the same, for how long they have, or how long they would have continued doing so.

That is a very interesting statement for everyone to consider.

I've worked with software development teams for any years. As far as most coders are concerned, if the API allows them to do something, then the company providing the API has authorised it. Unless there's a clear and concise statement "don't do this" in the TOS or EULA, nothing prevents them from doing with that information what they will.

There is a LOT of information available from the API, and if a coder writes an addon to present that information in such a way as to benefit himself (and his friends), then there is nothing wrong with doing so. If said coder chooses not to share his addon, then there is nothing wrong with not doing so. The onus is on the developer of the API to limit what information is available.

Think about mini map icons for a moment, or the Provision's Team Formation addon. They show the locations of your group members. What if the information and coordinates of the rest of your faction were available? How would you feel if someone running an addon could see where every player was on the map? What if the information and coordinates of the opposing factions were available? How would you feel if your opponents could see where you were at all times on the map? Is it the coder's fault for taking readily available information and using it? Or is it the developer of the API's fault for making that information available?

Berenhir

Thank you for going public with your work. Keep it up!

DocFrost72

Honestly, I've nothing against the author. With any luck, there comes some middle ground; the stealth segments of the addon are block (API no longer feeds info for stealth) and proc sets have a shared GCD.

Win win.

Grabmoore

Crown wrote: »

Is it the coder's fault for taking readily available information and using it? Or is it the developer of the API's fault for making that information available?

In order to answer the question about responsibility, I suggest you read Friedrich Dürrenmatts "The Physicists". It talks about scientists and their responsibilty regarding their inventions. It is indeed the case, that the spoken word cannot be unheard. Knowledge is power, but only you can decide how to use it. Just because you've access to the new techology of atomic bombs, this doesn't mean you are free to use and share it

Aztlan

You make a fair point, @Crown. However, regardless of whether players who are using add-ons to gain an advantage are not to blame, or less to blame, this add-on is patently unfair and will significantly diminish the effectiveness of stealth. It really is cheating, and so it is on ZOS to put a stop to it.

DHale

Just play the game... such woooses. most people who complain are not good players. He could have used this add on forever and kept it a secret. Not that it does anything that good anyway... oh well you are just easy ap.

Crown

Valwe wrote: »

You make a fair point, @Crown. However, regardless of whether players who are using add-ons to gain an advantage are not to blame, or less to blame, this add-on is patently unfair and will significantly diminish the effectiveness of stealth. It really is cheating, and so it is on ZOS to put a stop to it.

@Valwe I believe that it's important to distinguish "cheating" from "feels like cheating". In this case, taking available information and displaying it in a way that it's easier to understand and react to is NOT cheating. I agree that it feels wrong in principle, though I also understand and agree with Miat's reasoning as to why he made it available.

For the record I was also vehemently against considering using a gap close to leap across a gap as "cheating". If I can point my mouse somewhere, hit the number 1, and the skill assigned to the number 1 takes me somewhere that the developed doesn't want it to take me then the onus is on THEM to change that. Not consider my using a skill the way it is available to use as cheating.

Here's another analogy (I like analogies): You need to sort jellybeans such that there are 200 in each bag. Everyone around you is counting them 1 by 1, and it takes them 2 minutes to fill a bag. Everyone needs to complete 100 bags, thus a shift is 200 minutes (3 hours and 20 minutes). You figure out that all jellybeans are each 2 grams in weight, so use a scale to measure out 400 grams and bag them all at once. You complete your 200 bags in about 20 minutes, and have 3 hours free. If you choose not to share the scale method with the other jellybean baggers, and use those 3 hours to relax, play video games, or chat with friends then are you doing anything wrong? If you share the method of using a scale with the rest of the jellybean baggers, and everyone finishes early, are you doing anything wrong?

jircris11

proof that people rely to heavily on handy-caps.

Arthg

DHale wrote: »

Just play the game... such woooses. most people who complain are not good players. He could have used this add on forever and kept it a secret. Not that it does anything that good anyway... oh well you are just easy ap.

People disagreeing with you doesn't make them "wooses".
Some of us just want to play fair and square and aren't ready to use game-breaking devices to satisfy some egocentric desire to win all the time.

Anyway, it seems that a "good" player would not need such crutches to "git gud", but funnily enough, it's only those who claim to be "good" that advocate the use of the addon...

Go figure.

Sneaky-Snurr

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom
This addon is extremely & definitely advantageous to gank builds. It only empowers those kind of players.

Imagine that there is said "hidden" ganker within an area and there is also another "hidden" player. The ganker, which is fully equipped and armed with gank sets pops a DETECT POT, reveals the non-ganker and then proceed to one-shot/kill said player. I say ban this addon on every PvP campaign. I'm surprised that you and the Devs aren't finding this to be intrusive to the true essence of PvP in this game.

Crown

Grabmoore wrote: »

Crown wrote: »

Is it the coder's fault for taking readily available information and using it? Or is it the developer of the API's fault for making that information available?

In order to answer the question about responsibility, I suggest you read Friedrich Dürrenmatts "The Physicists". It talks about scientists and their responsibility regarding their inventions. It is indeed the case, that the spoken word cannot be unheard. Knowledge is power, but only you can decide how to use it. Just because you've access to the new technology of atomic bombs, this doesn't mean you are free to use and share it

@Grabmoore I've read a few similar documents and had to write up an ethics paper on something related when finishing my doctorate about 15 years ago. I find atomic bomb theory a bit too far out as an analogy. Where human life is concerned, the morals and ethics are too different from those of video games. I understand your argument, though we do have to consider the impact of information use. In this case we also need to consider that the information is there, and has been used for a long time by a small subset of the player base. Translating that information so that the rest of the player base can understand it is a different scenario.

ku5h

Moral of the story! If you wanna get good stop playing and start learning coding, it will give you more advantage then L2P ever will.

mtwiggz

Recremen wrote: »

I heard this addon makes PvP unplayable for the user in anything close to a big fight, and that it allows super-cheaty info to come through like when an enemy player is stealthed near you. Confirm/Deny?

It only tells you if a player that isn't already in stealth went in stealth while he is on your screen.

As for unplayable? I used it last night for the first time. Didn't notice any lag out of the ordinary Prime Time lag.

Realistically the only feature that I even found useful was the players-per-faction count. It's nice to know a "close estimation" of how many of the enemy faction are there instead of randoms just calling zerg.

Thorvarg

1. Attacks notification. Each channeled attack in the game has a start time(when the button is pressed) and an end time (when the attack actually fires). The addon provides an on-screen notification when a channelled attack against the player starts. This notification has the icon of the attack's ability and the name of the player initiating the attack.

Attacks being tracked are : all heavy attacks (besides lightning staff and restoration staff), Snipe (Focused Aim, Lethal Arrow), Uppercut (Dizzying Swing, Wrecking Blow), Dark Flare/Solar Flare, hard-casted Crystal Fragments, Assassin's Will/Scourge, Ambush and Lotus Fan.

Ambush, Lotus Fan, Fire/Frost destruction staves and Bow heavy attacks are shown from stealth only.

As a bonus feature the addon shows Piercing Mark application along with the name of the player who applied it.

Attacks from a stealthed player are registered separately and have a special animation along with a sound.

That's it what kills PvP, at least the Stealth-Aspect, one important part of PvP !

Mountain33r

So I checked it out, played with this addon last night. Everyone spewing doom and gloom is just ignorant. Test if for yourself, there is nothing game breaking here. Actually @mtwiggz is right the only thing really helpful is the player counts.

Showing names of stealth players on your screen; it does show if someone has stealth near you recently in which you may not have seen because you were focused on something else?. Not the location of them. Also if your volume is up, you can actually hear people cast abilities while stealth unless I am getting some kind of magic, which was before using this addon. There were times last night, that no names were the list and I got ganked by a player in stealth near me, happen a lot actually. No indication or any sort of heads up.

It's just good information, but nothing game breaking, least from what I tested. Unless there is something I am missing (MAGIC).

Aiphaton

That's it what kills PvP, at least the Stealth-Aspect, one important part of PvP !

Im portant you mean for NoSkiller ?
People which cant face the opponent in a 1 vs 1 and need to relay on proc sets and no sustain.
Man you made my Day

Thorvarg

Aiphaton wrote: »

That's it what kills PvP, at least the Stealth-Aspect, one important part of PvP !

Im portant you mean for NoSkiller ?
People which cant face the opponent in a 1 vs 1 and need to relay on proc sets and no sustain.
Man you made my Day

To be honest, i am 59 years old and i prefer to be skillfull at my Job. Playing this game, i would prefer to play it as intended, without any Addon and using stealth !

Duukar

I had a thread where I was complaining that someone on AD was auto cloaking all my attacks on him from stealth.

I was told to L2P

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/285010/nb-insta-stealth-macro#latest

It was one of the players listed in the shout outs at the bottom of the addon.

This is an INCREDIBLE advantage in PvP and completely game breaking. If anyone in PvP doesnt have this they are severely gimping themselves..

Wow... Just wow!!

Duukar

As a NB this is an incredibly powerful tool. You will never be ganked again.

A sound playes whenever someone initiates an attack on you from stealth.. Hit Cloak.. Profit.

Also if they are a regular player you will have already received an alert they are nearby..

This is so dumb.

XDragonDoomX

Yet another good reason not to return to Cyrodiil / Imperial City / Sewers

idk

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

an add-on that is approved and allowed

How many times must you spread this nonsense in this thread despite having been corrected? All addons are independent third-party creations, and there is no such thing as vetting or approval of addons.

The extent of the control that ZOS has is what functionality and data they make available via their framework and APIs. The game's API and data promiscuity is such that an addon like this is made possible. This doesn't necessarily mean that ZOS "approves" or "disapproves" of such addons. It may be their intent that such an addon exists, or it might not be, and it simply was not a scenario that they had imagined and thus accounted for when designing their systems.

if it is in elderscrolls online then it was approved by them and allowed to be in thier game.
that is not "non-sence" that is a fact.
they have approved of this and are allowing it.
this is not new information, this thread is not new as well, this has been discussed on reddit as well for quite some time.
this is proof as well that zenimax is aware of it and is allowing it to exist in thier game.

Your are incorrect in every aspect. Code explained the reality perfectly, which you quoted.

God_flakes

Sypher wrote: »

God_flakes wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Wow pc players really do need training wheels huh

I called Sypher out on his excessive add on use and got ridiculed for it. Understand it's JMO and I am somewhat of a game purist but I can't stand add ons. I run one and only one and have it set to tell me my critical damage. It doesn't scream "cleanse now!" and "potion now!" And "dodge roll now!" and "bio break now!" at me incessantly. That garbage would make me insane. Just let me PLAY. Why've can't people just PLAY? Why do ya'll need so many prompts when some of you are clearly very talented gamers?

Can you please stop mentioning me in your comments. I cringe every time I see Sypher next to "God Flakes"

For the record only add on I use and have ever used are simple UI add ons like FTC and LUI. Please Stop..

Such melodrama/much bitterness. I didn't even tag you. If you don't like the commentary I suggest you use the block function.

TheDarkRuler

ZoS, must have a look onto this and ban it from ingame.
Its a disgusting way of cheating by using certain addons!
Any info not available to non-addon users should not be made available at all by an addon!

EnviousStruggle

me and my pvp-squad already installing and configuring such wonderfull addon!
thanks ZOS for allowing it!

[Edit to remove bait]

alexkdd99

rteezy wrote: »

LOL at people complaining about addons in pvp...



HERE is the thing, good players will always be ebtter then you all WITH or WITHOUT addons.


THERE IS A REASON why on ACTUAL competitive pvp mmos top players ALLL USE addons, yet they arew forced to play without them on tournaments.IN THE END theya re STILL the top players.

ADDONS only make sub par players average....they dont turn a bad player into decent..never did..never will...


AND ONLY someone with a VERY reduced experience in ANY foRM of high rated competitive pvp in mmos would say otherwise.

So you think this addon should be allowed? This addon most definitely helps players in pvp.

Anyone not using this addon is at a fairly large disadvantage compared to someone who is using it.

And yes an addon could definitely take a bad player and make them decent depending on all the features of the addon.

rteezy wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

rteezy wrote: »

dwemer_paleologist wrote: »

rteezy wrote: »

LOL at people complaining about addons in pvp...



HERE is the thing, good players will always be ebtter then you all WITH or WITHOUT addons.


THERE IS A REASON why on ACTUAL competitive pvp mmos top players ALLL USE addons, yet they arew forced to play without them on tournaments.IN THE END theya re STILL the top players.

ADDONS only make sub par players average....they dont turn a bad player into decent..never did..never will...


AND ONLY someone with a VERY reduced experience in ANY foRM of high rated competitive pvp in mmos would say otherwise.

are you trying to say that people whom use add-ons are not gaining an advantage or that they ARE gaining an advantage ?
sounds like double speak.
the fact remains that this add-on is cheating. no matter how you try to slice and dice it, it is cheating to know that there are stealthed players near you.
it is also cheating to pull those stealthed players out of stealth.

correct, the advantage is VERY minimal, and for a semi decent player barelly noticeble. Only bellow average players will gain anythign from it, and only equally as below average players will complain about it.Addosn in mmos have been debated for over a decade..the veredict is ALWAYS the same..IT ONLY matters for the bellow average population AND it wont turn them "decent" either.

False.

Yes it will help below average players more. Until the good ones get annoyed at how it helped close the power gap. Then the good ones will use it and start completely destroying people worse than ever before. This is how the cycle of cheating in sports has always worked and this is no different.

See Lance Armstrong, Barry Bonds, Roger Clemens

again, wrong

it is NOT cheating..it triggers ONLY WHEN a player starts an event WHICH can always be heard if ur good enough...

liek i said, it ONLY helps the below average players and STILL wont help them enough to become any decent..it has ALWAYS been like that.

Guess I was wrong about people not trying to defend this addon. There is no way this should be legitimate and honestly not sure how someone could see a way to defend it.

You keep saying it has always been like that but that is not true. Where does it stop? An addon can most definitely turn a below average player decent depending on all the features of the addon.

The whole purpose of addon is to enhance your gaming experience and to make you better or have an edge in game. The problem with this is it goes to far.

EnviousStruggle

alexkdd99 wrote: »

Anyone not using this addon is at a fairly large disadvantage compared to someone who is using it.

same thing can be told about any addon!

ie Master Merchant+Awesome Guild store
and many more

Enodoc

Annra wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Thank you for the detailed reply. Have there been any internal discussions, or any upcoming plans, to institute a no add-ons or no UI PVP campaign?

There are quite a few people who truly enjoy the barebones original UI but are forced into using both add ons and "floaty number" ZOS made UI upgrades in order to maintain competitive balance.

You're welcome! Unfortunately, it isn't currently possible to disable addons for just one campaign and not the others.

Then disable addons on all campaigns immediately please!
This addon, like many similar addons too, is unacceptable.
And please ban the author of this addon for lifetime!

They can't ban the author for using a function that the API allows. The best they can do, if they decide that this functionality is not something they approve of, is change the API so that it no longer works. And I certainly can't agree with disabling all add-ons in PvP, because then CA wouldn't work, and all that does is notify you of when a keep is under attack (and other AvA notifications), which uses API events specifically designed for showing that info.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Annra wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Thank you for the detailed reply. Have there been any internal discussions, or any upcoming plans, to institute a no add-ons or no UI PVP campaign?

There are quite a few people who truly enjoy the barebones original UI but are forced into using both add ons and "floaty number" ZOS made UI upgrades in order to maintain competitive balance.

You're welcome! Unfortunately, it isn't currently possible to disable addons for just one campaign and not the others.

Then disable addons on all campaigns immediately please!
This addon, like many similar addons too, is unacceptable.
And please ban the author of this addon for lifetime!

1 insightful 5 agree 1 awesome

For all the criticism I give ZOS about not listening to the forums hive mind, this comment is a strong argument for the contrary. Ban someone for using the API as intended? Wow. If we stopped being so knee jerk for a second, perhaps we could have a greater discussion about what is wrong with cyrodiil instead of just having ZOS break this addon and go back to business as usual.

Ankael07

Man.. what has eso pvp become? Exploits, ridiculously imbalanced items and cheating with addons. You cant turn a corner without facing one of them nowadays.