Miat's PVP alerts.

forzajuve212

Waffennacht wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Addon author chiming in:)

First let me thank @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and other members of ZOS team who reverse engineered my addon and laid out what exactly it does in a clear manner.

I also want to say i do appreciate ANY feedback regarding the addon and myself. Good or bad. Just please try to refrain from personal insults and keep the discussion in a civil manner. Thank you.

Now let me comment on the addon, my intentions and the result in a Q&A style:


Q: How this addon came to be?

A: In the current state of stealth ganks in PVP right now, unfortunately we're facing the situation when no amount of crit resistance will save you from a guy one-shotting you from stealth if you're running medium or light armor. At some point i had a thought that i would be awesome if ZOS changed the stealth mechanics to make channeled abilities to get you out of stealth at the beginning of their cast instead of when they hit something.

I made some tests and realized that the game already provides the event for when the attack starts. The event contains full information about the attack including source and target names.

Knowing that making an addon what pops a notification on this event was trivial. At this point i already realized this gonna be big, but i didn't know yet how big it would end up being.

But i still had to figure out how to know if he was in stealth, while charging this attack. I did more tests i found out a way to do that. That way though opened a 'Pandora Box'. I figured out that know i can get much more information than just whether the guy is in stealth or not. And so i did:)

After i did all that i realized that even though i know the name of the attacker and a bunch of other info about him i can't get any information out of the name itself. I don't know his faction, class - basically nothing besides his name. Thus, quite naturally i came up with the concept of database. The database was the link between 'somebody' doing actions in the world and a particular person having char name, account name etc etc.

Only the combination of all these discoveries allowed me to build the addon the way i wanted.

And here it is.


Q: Do you find any of the features of the addon unfair?

A: No i don't. I made them exactly to make the pvp environment both more clear and more fair. This is coming from a guy mainly playing stam nb.


Q: Did you know many people would be against this addon when you open it to public?

A: I definitely did. This addon changes the way people experience Cyrodiil quite drastically. What i see on the forums now was expected (besdies detailed post of @ZOS_JessicaFolsom ). In my mind the addon makes Cyrodiil a better pvp experience. Your definition of 'better' might be different. I accept that.


Q: Did you expect ZOS to make some actions to prevent some or all the features of the addon to work in the result of the complaints?

A: Yes i did. I wasn't an easy decision to make this addon public. Not because i wanted to keep the addon for myself. I didn't and i don't. I released it as soon as it was ready and thoroughly tested.

The only real reason for my hesitation was that i was afraid of knee-jerk reaction from developers. If i were them i'd disable the addon on the spot and only THEN started the internal discussion on what parts of it can be allowed:)


Q: Why did you released it then?

A: The addon is supposed to make the playfield between stealthers and non-stealthers more even. Not the playfield between me and everybody else:) I truly want everybody to use it and enjoy its perks.

Basically i'd be happy if ZOS added some (all) of its features to the base ui (or allowed it to be). Can we do it, dear ZOS?:)

I agree that stealth detection feature will be over the top IF and ONLY IF ZOS fixes stealth ganks and stealth in general. In my personal opinion attacking from stealth is huge advantage in itself. Now add oneshots to the picture and stealths becomes out of control. And this is what we have now in pvp. This is my opinion. I'm aware there can be other opinions. This is fine.

I implemented the features the addon has because i personally wanted them to be in the game. I find them fun and engaging. Other people might disagree. That's fine. This is my vision.


Q: What would you do if/when they ban it?

A: I will make some other addon if the game will still be engaging enough for me. I'd be happy if we can find a happy medium here though, where some features will be allowed to stay. But i'm prepared to 'accept my fate':)


In conclusion i want to say i you all:)

Dear ZOS, please continue to make this game the way you do, so people like me still manage to have fun in it after years of playing. You all rock (even Wrobel)!

Miat

Aka: I didn't like how the developers made their game, so I decided to change it.

Wow, what an ego

He didn't say that at all.

Rohamad_Ali

Edziu wrote: »

@Dorrino if now everyone will see when you charging your attack from stelth and then fast they comming intodefense and you have very small chance to kill someone froms tealth....new blazingplar comming into cyrodil! eventually heavy armored tankly dk as just on of the best chars to open fight, I see less population of easy ap from NB etc just because you have eyes in back your head and have you a magical eye which see when someone is going into hide behind rock or something and you see while invisible attack is charging into you, very damn logical.....

now waiting for addon which will automaticallly cast any hard cc after cc immune end on your target

This concern falls 100% on ZOS for allowing it if it's even possible to create . The morals of a addon writer or his beliefs of fair play are completely irrelevant . Code writers will code anything and everything they can by their own interpretation of the TOS . ZOS should be the one the concerns are directed too . This is a subject for @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and the Devs to decide with the addon creators .

Edziu

Waffennacht wrote: »

Where it still busts the game, for a lot of players would be an example of:

Im roaming Cropsford (alone as usual) unknown to me (cause im turning in a quest etc) a player spots me as they come to cropsford.

They enter stealth - normally I'm still unaware, opponent sneaks up and attacks

Now with this addon I'm alerted the moment that player enters stealth, as I'm all alone I know it's after me.

I hit surge, ward etc.

More than likely the poor fool that's stealthed is now the one at a disadvantage! Because he doesn't know I know he's there, when he attacks it's gonna be bad for him! He doesn't get an add on saying "They know you're there!"

It doesn't need to tell me like a radar where he is, all I need to know that he is there.

Or to be a jerk I could just pop a detect pot and get on horseback and ride in widdening circles till the player is found.

Not to mention if it gets a player's name, if I killed that player and I'm alerted the player went stealth Im pretty sure he is after me.

The opposing player is then very confused as to why his stealth is broken, makes a forum account and makes a thread, where we all tell him it's working as intended just like the 3 months we knew about it.

in cities where people are doing quest ok...I can get over it, but while on true cyro fight this addon will just destroying game because of you "magical eyes" behind your head and able to see thourg wall, trees etc to see when someone is going into hide and if he is charging an attack on someone...

make damage shields interruptable, high burst heals also, reflect same interruptable because why only stealth plays should be punished because they are glass cannon in stealth, if it will be to low lerfs into cloak and any other nb skill working with stealth

Edziu

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@Dorrino if now everyone will see when you charging your attack from stelth and then fast they comming intodefense and you have very small chance to kill someone froms tealth....new blazingplar comming into cyrodil! eventually heavy armored tankly dk as just on of the best chars to open fight, I see less population of easy ap from NB etc just because you have eyes in back your head and have you a magical eye which see when someone is going into hide behind rock or something and you see while invisible attack is charging into you, very damn logical.....

now waiting for addon which will automaticallly cast any hard cc after cc immune end on your target

This concern falls 100% on ZOS for allowing it if it's even possible to create . The morals of a addon writer or his beliefs of fair play are completely irrelevant . Code writers will code anything and everything they can by their own interpretation of the TOS . ZOS should be the one the concerns are directed too . This is a subject for @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and the Devs to decide with the addon creators .

yeah, end of era for NB by just addon, not patch when mag dk era was ended by patch long ago

now Im curious about addon which will work with this....for example when you have on addon someone is hidden then your second addon instantly stat spamming shields, radiant light or something other to defense just to prevent more gang on you

forzajuve212

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

If you guys decide to change parts of this addon, please do not ban in entirely. I personally love the kill feed, it really makes it feel like an online PVP game and i enjoy the sound it makes when you get a killing blow

Dorrino

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I have a question not in the pre written Q&A . What other addons have you written ? Can we get a full list ?

Sure:)

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/author-16863.html

Enjoy!

Rohamad_Ali

Edziu wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@Dorrino if now everyone will see when you charging your attack from stelth and then fast they comming intodefense and you have very small chance to kill someone froms tealth....new blazingplar comming into cyrodil! eventually heavy armored tankly dk as just on of the best chars to open fight, I see less population of easy ap from NB etc just because you have eyes in back your head and have you a magical eye which see when someone is going into hide behind rock or something and you see while invisible attack is charging into you, very damn logical.....

now waiting for addon which will automaticallly cast any hard cc after cc immune end on your target

This concern falls 100% on ZOS for allowing it if it's even possible to create . The morals of a addon writer or his beliefs of fair play are completely irrelevant . Code writers will code anything and everything they can by their own interpretation of the TOS . ZOS should be the one the concerns are directed too . This is a subject for @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and the Devs to decide with the addon creators .

yeah, end of era for NB by just addon, not patch when mag dk era was ended by patch long ago

now Im curious about addon which will work with this....for example when you have on addon someone is hidden then your second addon instantly stat spamming shields, radiant light or something other to defense just to prevent more gang on you

An this is why I don't PvP here often anymore . I have a choice . I don't have to be here . I don't have to be a victim . If ZOS doesn't want to remove these things from PvP , it's their game . We can play another .

Rohamad_Ali

Dorrino wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I have a question not in the pre written Q&A . What other addons have you written ? Can we get a full list ?

Sure:)

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/author-16863.html

Enjoy!

Thank you very much . I have nothing personal against you at all , I personally don't like the add on that lets everyone know I'm around or what attacks I'm preparing . I don't wear proc suits so I do understand the frustration of getting ganked by those that do . Maybe there are some other add ons here I may enjoy though .

Aztlan

I have a ganking character that I enjoy playing, though not exclusively. This add-on ruins an entire class and playstyle. To have high burst from stealth means sacrificing a lot of survivability and sustain, which is a fair choice. This addon must be banned.

abelsgmx

3. Names of stealthed players of enemy factions around you.

Bye bye stealth system

Dorrino

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Thank you very much . I have nothing personal against you at all , I personally don't like the add on that lets everyone know I'm around or what attacks I'm preparing . I don't wear proc suits so I do understand the frustration of getting ganked by those that do . Maybe there are some other add ons here I may enjoy though .

This is understandable. Though you can still use this addon on your ganker. Running the addon itself will not expose you to anybody:)

And the part about not liking that other people know that you are around - it works both ways. Nobody likes his playstyle to be messed up. And nobody likes being ganked (most of the time).

The addon's goal to make being ganked more fair while still allowing ganking playstyle to work. It will just become a bit more challenging.

Again this is my opinion. Sorry about any frustration i involuntary caused!

Grunim

This add-on looks interesting. Having some sort of "ene

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Dorrino wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

I have a question not in the pre written Q&A . What other addons have you written ? Can we get a full list ?

Sure:)

http://www.esoui.com/downloads/author-16863.html

Enjoy!

Thank you very much . I have nothing personal against you at all , I personally don't like the add on that lets everyone know I'm around or what attacks I'm preparing . I don't wear proc suits so I do understand the frustration of getting ganked by those that do . Maybe there are some other add ons here I may enjoy though .

I really enjoy Miat's CC Tracker add-on especially because it allows you to know when an ultimate is an unfriendly ultimate. Heck, so many times CCs don't even have an animation that is rendering and this ultimate allows you to be aware you are being CC'd when the game's UI is failing you.

Rohamad_Ali

Dorrino wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Thank you very much . I have nothing personal against you at all , I personally don't like the add on that lets everyone know I'm around or what attacks I'm preparing . I don't wear proc suits so I do understand the frustration of getting ganked by those that do . Maybe there are some other add ons here I may enjoy though .

This is understandable. Though you can still use this addon on your ganker. Running the addon itself will not expose you to anybody:)

And the part about not liking that other people knows that you are around - it works both ways. Nobody likes his playstyle to be messed up. And nobody likes being ganked (most of the time).

The addon's goal to make being ganked more fair while still allowing ganking playstyle to work. It will just become a bit more challenging.

Again this is my opinion. Sorry about any frustration i involuntary caused!

You just did what was in your nature . Einstein is either the hero or the villain depending on what side of the blast radius you were on . I never throw the blame game at creators . This is a ZOS issue for me .

I have these weird morals that keep me from wearing proc suits or using add ons I wouldn't want used against me . It's my quirkiness and I don't expect others to share them . You are very cool for sharing and being open with everyone . I wish you all the best my friend .

Cazic

This addon crosses the line, in my opinion. There's a difference between convenience addons and the ones that give a clear advantage in PvP. This is the latter. I would never use something like this, and knowing that many people in PvP will be is pretty discouraging.

I'm sure there are other "things" players are doing in PvP which are probably worse. But as far as supported addons go, I do hope ZOS adjusts the API to make things like this impossible.

Publius_Scipio

Paul Sage understood at the very beginning what opening the APIs meant. And for a split second right before launch ZOS had decided to close access to the APIs, but of course all the backlash led to them going back in and opening access. Mr. Sage understood that doing this could be an extremely slippery slope. Where do you draw the line between what is fair to the community (allowing for personal choice of whether or not to use addons) and what starts to bend the vision of what ZOS intends?

Sure there are plenty of addons out there that are "harmless" but what happens when a sneaky khajiit irl, like Mr. Miat, cooks something like this up? Even if this addon does not give an exact location of where the enemy is BUT ALERTS YOU TO THERE BEING AN ENEMY NEARBY..... I STILL SAY WTF IS THE PURPOSE OF STEALTH THEN?

That's where the lines start to blur. I personally feel that true fairness and equality can be achieved when players can't dip their hands into the product. If ZOS had ESO locked down, protected from things like CE, then any and all players that log into ESO would be guaranteed a level playing field. Or as level a playing field as ZOS itself could put out there for all of us.

And Miat himself explains it. He didn't like the situation so he saw an opportunity and took it. Do we the players or ZOS even know what someone can truly do with an addon given the time and thought?

GreenSoup2HoT

JD2013 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Thank god i play console. This is a terrible add-on to be used against nightblade's. Any nightblade who knows how to nightblade uses cloak and unstealths to regen stamina while invisible and then goes back into stealth so you dont have to spam cloak anymore.

Now players will know when you do this and be able to identify that you are around. This is a huge advantage because you can now pop a detection potion and bam you see them.

GG Zos. I feel bad for pc nb's.

ZOS didn't make the addon??

Im not making my point by saying they made it, the point is they allow it. Whats next? Some form of minimap to show enemy players around you? Surely somewhere your position in cryodill is tracked with code, i wouldn't be surprised if some sort of add-on would be cap-able of tracking your position in real time within your view radius.

This add-on and other add-ons such as being told when to dodge/break-free or gear spec/skill swap add-ons are on the edge of the fence as well (for me at least).

Dorrino

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

WTF IS THE PURPOSE OF STEALTH THEN?

I can explain this part:) The purpose of stealth is not to be attackable and not to be seen to be able to pick your fights instead of being forced to fight by other people.

In my opinion if people know you're in a quite large radius around them that will not make you visible. And in most circumstances it will not give them any new information about you. As soon as you kill somebody - others will know you're around. Without any names on the screen.

If you decide to afk the addon will stop sowing your name.

So i'm not sure what are the plans of yours that having your name on other people's screen disrupt that much:)

Edziu

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

@Dorrino if now everyone will see when you charging your attack from stelth and then fast they comming intodefense and you have very small chance to kill someone froms tealth....new blazingplar comming into cyrodil! eventually heavy armored tankly dk as just on of the best chars to open fight, I see less population of easy ap from NB etc just because you have eyes in back your head and have you a magical eye which see when someone is going into hide behind rock or something and you see while invisible attack is charging into you, very damn logical.....

now waiting for addon which will automaticallly cast any hard cc after cc immune end on your target

This concern falls 100% on ZOS for allowing it if it's even possible to create . The morals of a addon writer or his beliefs of fair play are completely irrelevant . Code writers will code anything and everything they can by their own interpretation of the TOS . ZOS should be the one the concerns are directed too . This is a subject for @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and the Devs to decide with the addon creators .

yeah, end of era for NB by just addon, not patch when mag dk era was ended by patch long ago

now Im curious about addon which will work with this....for example when you have on addon someone is hidden then your second addon instantly stat spamming shields, radiant light or something other to defense just to prevent more gang on you

An this is why I don't PvP here often anymore . I have a choice . I don't have to be here . I don't have to be a victim . If ZOS doesn't want to remove these things from PvP , it's their game . We can play another .

yep, at all I was less often on cyro since OT but still was going to some pvp...ofc on glass cannon nb, now it will be useless for me, this gameplay because with time more people will have this adodn and more people will know about my planned attack and then any attack from stealth with very good chance to succes will be down and down almost to 0 because someone will know Im near and will start buffing to prevent my attacks.

so now again I got lees willing to go on cyrodil, more chance is I will then go just on templar to radiant spam from zerg for easier ap, nb as true assain will be dead as character for pvp

Publius_Scipio

Dorrino wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

WTF IS THE PURPOSE OF STEALTH THEN?

I can explain this part:) The purpose of stealth is not to be attackable and not to be seen to be able to pick your fights instead of being forced to fight by other people.

In my opinion if people know you're in a quite large radius around them that will not make you visible. And in most circumstances it will not give them any new information about you. As soon as you kill somebody - others will know you're around. Without any names on the screen.

If you decide to afk the addon will stop sowing your name.

So i'm not sure what are the plans of yours that having your name on other people's screen disrupt that much:)

Yeah except one problem. I don't care about names. Stealth is stealth, you shouldn't know anyone is around unless you either find them or use the tools ZOS gave us to find them (i.e. detect pots). You with this addon wrote your own rules into ESO.

Edziu

Dorrino wrote: »

Publius_Scipio wrote: »

WTF IS THE PURPOSE OF STEALTH THEN?

I can explain this part:) The purpose of stealth is not to be attackable and not to be seen to be able to pick your fights instead of being forced to fight by other people.

In my opinion if people know you're in a quite large radius around them that will not make you visible. And in most circumstances it will not give them any new information about you. As soon as you kill somebody - others will know you're around. Without any names on the screen.

If you decide to afk the addon will stop sowing your name.

So i'm not sure what are the plans of yours that having your name on other people's screen disrupt that much:)

yea, they will know you are in stealth around and will be ready for any attack so assaasin class is just garbage with this addon, so now stealth is only to move unnoticed but no more to assasinate anyone

Decado

Well scouting keeps just got a whole lot easier, remember when you used to have a guy running around the outside of a valuable keep scouting it and you had to wait in stealth for him to ride past and then siege as fast as possible to give as little warning as possible? RIP that idea, scout watching TV gets a notification 20 AD just entered your RAdius, shouts in chat 20AD about to hit xx port now

JD2013

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

JD2013 wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Thank god i play console. This is a terrible add-on to be used against nightblade's. Any nightblade who knows how to nightblade uses cloak and unstealths to regen stamina while invisible and then goes back into stealth so you dont have to spam cloak anymore.

Now players will know when you do this and be able to identify that you are around. This is a huge advantage because you can now pop a detection potion and bam you see them.

GG Zos. I feel bad for pc nb's.

ZOS didn't make the addon??

Im not making my point by saying they made it, the point is they allow it. Whats next? Some form of minimap to show enemy players around you? Surely somewhere your position in cryodill is tracked with code, i wouldn't be surprised if some sort of add-on would be cap-able of tracking your position in real time within your view radius.

This add-on and other add-ons such as being told when to dodge/break-free or gear spec/skill swap add-ons are on the edge of the fence as well (for me at least).

I do have a response, however I'm going to articulate it properly tomorrow when I'm less sleepy.

However I disagree with blaming ZOS for the addon existing, but I blame them for the addon being allowed, because PVP is an absolutely atrocious mess and needs a massive sort out.

Allowing things like this is allowing it to go even further down the plug hole.

Dorrino

Edziu wrote: »

yea, they will know you are in stealth around and will be ready for any attack so assaasin class is just garbage with this addon, so now stealth is only to move unnoticed but no more to assasinate anyone

I my opinion the said 'assassin's' playstyle is quite unfair towards the targets. But it should definitely be fun for the 'assassin'.

Rohamad_Ali

Decado wrote: »

Well scouting keeps just got a whole lot easier, remember when you used to have a guy running around the outside of a valuable keep scouting it and you had to wait in stealth for him to ride past and then siege as fast as possible to give as little warning as possible? RIP that idea, scout watching TV gets a notification 20 AD just entered your RAdius, shouts in chat 20AD about to hit xx port now

Very good observation ! No pun intended . It's a game changer for sure .

Rohamad_Ali

I want to give props to @Dorrino for creating this master work of code . After reading the thought behind it , it's very clever and a brilliant accomplishment in espionage . It's a Ninpo Master plan worthy of a reward Katana and Black mask .

Does it go to far ? That's up to ZOS . I agree with friends here that say it does go to far .

Am I impressed ? Most certainly . Am I frustrated with proc suit gankers I win button armor ? Definetly . Does this level the playing field ? Absolutely .

But it goes too far . It removes the element of surprise from the base game . It takes away a strategy organized groups have deployed successfully since launch to help take keeps and push the map without turtling and zerging . If we don't have the good elements of stealth , we end up with more Zerg playstyle .

That's why I think it goes too far

kevlarto_ESO

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

There is a lot more addons then this that might raise an ear . This one seems tamer then some of the more intrusive ones out there . There was one that was radar awhile back tat used footstep sounds to track enemy stealthed players . You could tell when you were spotted without detection pots . Very nasty intrusive addon . There are more and like already stated mostly secret .

It's a shame some of these exist as in my opinion they can and very often do give an unfair advantage over other players . I'm aware when I walk into Cyrodiil cheating exists and con never be stopped completely . I go in telling myself it's going to happen and if I'm not in the mood to deal with , PvP in a monitored game , not here . Saves me a whole lot of upset . So no salt here at all . I have a choice .

I agree, there are helpful add-ons but there are some dark ones also, I think the API should be kept very tight, and I hope they do make changes to the API. I know entering pvp I will encounter cheaters on a daily basis, exploiters and now intrusive add-ons, it's no wonder I find myself doing less and less pvp, and playing the game over all, things just keep popping up that suck the fun right out of it, and I am such a fan of this game also /sigh

SkylarkX

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

• If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
• If someone is already stealthed and you’re traveling near then, or enter the area they were initially already stealthed in, you will not be notified of that player.
• If someone uses a Nightblade ability that results in them vanishing, they will not trigger the addon’s alert unless they enter the real “hidden” state (i.e. the eye on the HUD is closed).

What radius does the add-on use for detecting a player entering stealth?

thedude33

To be clear so I can understand how the game works. This new add-on was allowed to go public. Anyone can use it now, and everyone knows about it.

What happened before it went public? Is the general population allowed to create anything they want and use it themselves ...and others don't even know it exists?

If true, it appears my lack of programming skills instantly puts me behind the 8 ball. Never mind the fact that I am new and not very good anyways.

Troubling.

zuto40

help us console peasants, give me KoS

Idinuse

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Are we allowed to use this addon until you decide upon a judgement?

At this time, we will not be taking action on accounts using this addon.

ESO the cheesier MMO. Mhm!