Miat's PVP alerts.

AuldWolf

mb10 wrote: »

Lmao remove add ons from most PC players and you'll see their lack of genuine skill

First of all? Platform tribalism makes you look like a caveman, screeching and waving a banner improvised from your own underwear. It's really not intelligent. It just shows that you can't actually think for yourself, because if you could, you'd realise that branding is thinking for you. You know, funny thing, a recent study showed that brand slaves responded to imagery of their branding in the same way that religious zealots respond to cultist imagery? This is a thing, feel free to research it. All tribalism of this sort demonstrates is a lack of the critical capacities required for free will.

And next up? What, exactly, do you think addons can do, exactly? They provide UI-focused quality of life improvements. Everything related to actually playing the game is a locked function. You're just showing your ignorance here, and you're enjoying your ignorance because it fuels your tribalism. It's the equivalent of wives tales. You have so much mythology surrounding mods it's ridiculous. Mods do things like allowing you to keep around lore books, or sorting your inventory easier. Want to know what actually does play the game for you? Having the best armour (that you've wasted your life to grind) and a cookie-cutter build.

Others have pointed out that the only reason this addon can do what it does is through hackish means. And some coders here, including myself, are dubious that it's able to do all it thinks it can. Either there's a lot of inaccurate assumption/guesswork being done by the mod, or there are simply more functions that ZOS needs to lock away. They've done this before to stop what you're talking about from happening.

Be learned. Be informed. Don't be a uncivilised tribal, waving your underpants in the air with a hearty 'unga bunga.' No one wants to see/hear that.

Rohamad_Ali

Unga Bunga ! Lolololololol

leepalmer95

List of stealthed players...

Isn't this just cheating?

NBrookus

thedude33 wrote: »

To be clear so I can understand how the game works. This new add-on was allowed to go public. Anyone can use it now, and everyone knows about it.

What happened before it went public? Is the general population allowed to create anything they want and use it themselves ...and others don't even know it exists?

If true, it appears my lack of programming skills instantly puts me behind the 8 ball. Never mind the fact that I am new and not very good anyways.

Troubling.

People can't just create "anything" using an addon. They have to use functions -- and therefore data -- that are made available through the official API. If the data can be called using the API, you can use it. Developers cannot (legitimately) access or modify raw server side or client side data. It's kinda like going to a salad bar: you can make a your salad out of anything they put out there, but you can't go in the back and dig around in the kitchen or separate the honey and mustard out of the premade dressing.

In this case, ZOS has to decide if they are making too much data available and if so, how they want to change the functions that are called by addons to limit what is available to add-on developers.

Within those boundaries, yes, you can create any private or public addon you want. No permissions are required to do so, because you are using an interface (API) developed specifically for that purpose.

NoFlash

This add on is super cheesy

Even if the add on tells you there are people in stealth near you, what about lag?
There are other obvious things ZOS needs to fix for a better cyrodiil. I'd rather have people knowing im in stealth but can easily run 60+fps in the middle of a 50v50 fight during prime time. I'd rather them add Low pop vs high pop buffs or other features which require other keeps besides the doughnut which is cyrodiil to become emp. The list goes on and on

KhemSihr

I can see this Addon starting the Nerf of all Nightblade's.. (While at it the Addon will be deleted or no longer able to use.)

By adding a little script to Nightblade : Shadow Skills: "Shadow Cloak" < "Shadowy Disguise" or "Dark Cloak"..

They can put the same feature that is on Sorcerer :Storm Calling: "Bolt Escape" < "Streak" or "Ball of Lightning".


( Casting again within 4 seconds cost 50% more Magicka.)

Night_Wolf2112

Edziu wrote: »

Waffennacht wrote: »

Where it still busts the game, for a lot of players would be an example of:

Im roaming Cropsford (alone as usual) unknown to me (cause im turning in a quest etc) a player spots me as they come to cropsford.

They enter stealth - normally I'm still unaware, opponent sneaks up and attacks

Now with this addon I'm alerted the moment that player enters stealth, as I'm all alone I know it's after me.

I hit surge, ward etc.

More than likely the poor fool that's stealthed is now the one at a disadvantage! Because he doesn't know I know he's there, when he attacks it's gonna be bad for him! He doesn't get an add on saying "They know you're there!"

It doesn't need to tell me like a radar where he is, all I need to know that he is there.

Or to be a jerk I could just pop a detect pot and get on horseback and ride in widdening circles till the player is found.

Not to mention if it gets a player's name, if I killed that player and I'm alerted the player went stealth Im pretty sure he is after me.

The opposing player is then very confused as to why his stealth is broken, makes a forum account and makes a thread, where we all tell him it's working as intended just like the 3 months we knew about it.

Here is my concern... I am not that good of a player, but I like the ganky play style. Now, after I have tried and either succeeded or failed... the next time I get close to a certain player, he will know it's me and just be like, "Here comes the easy AP!"

This add-on not only let's you know to be ready for a gank... it lets you know if it has a better chance of success too just by putting you name up there when you take an action. It is an unfair advantage... and should not be allowed!

Volrion

This is worse than viper/tremor and destro ult combined.

Riejael

Cazic wrote: »

This addon crosses the line, in my opinion. There's a difference between convenience addons and the ones that give a clear advantage in PvP. This is the latter. I would never use something like this, and knowing that many people in PvP will be is pretty discouraging.

I'm sure there are other "things" players are doing in PvP which are probably worse. But as far as supported addons go, I do hope ZOS adjusts the API to make things like this impossible.

I'm curious to know whj you think this addon crosses the line.

As I said earlier in the thread, many of the features of this addon are apart of the base functionality of the UI in Planetside 2. They even take it a bit further and output alot of information to a web-based API so their site can track events and even allow you to relay such info in realtime to an overlay that can act as an additional hud.

The only feature that isn't present is one that alerts to a 'channeled attack' from steath as there are no channeled attacks in PS2. And the reason I bring up PS2 is its gameplay style (other than being different for being a FPS) has a VERY similar structure to Cyrodil in ESO.

I do believe personally that any change ZOS decides to make should be the squelching of information in the API when someone is stealthed. At least for unfriendly players. Everything else about the addon doesn't give 'unfair' information.

Now I understand that some people will find that statement unpopular due to the balance issues that the addon author brought up. But lets say stealth was balanced so it made the addon not needed... well the presence of the addon in that case makes it unfair now.

This is an interesting spot the devs are finding themselves in. They'll have to balance both in the same patch. If they decide to take any action on the subject at all.

Drummerx04

I'm guessing one of the few builds that generally kill @Dorrino are gank builds.

Sometimes I /sitchair and watch as he kites 20 potatoes through a resource tower just casually killing all of them, been on the receiving end of his group deciding they want me dead NOW, and having had a 16+ minute 1v1 with my magsorc before I finally ran out of resources (which in my defense only really had negate as an offensive ult against a stamNB, lol)... I can pretty confidently say that he pretty much won't die unless you zerg him or he messes up and you deal 25k damage to him within 1 CC.

Having said that, I find it sort of amusing that you wrote an addon to help counter one of the only playstyles that can reliably kill you

Just remember that not everyone is a confident infinite dodgerolling demi god...

Sypher

God_flakes wrote: »

DannyLV702 wrote: »

Wow pc players really do need training wheels huh

I called Sypher out on his excessive add on use and got ridiculed for it. Understand it's JMO and I am somewhat of a game purist but I can't stand add ons. I run one and only one and have it set to tell me my critical damage. It doesn't scream "cleanse now!" and "potion now!" And "dodge roll now!" and "bio break now!" at me incessantly. That garbage would make me insane. Just let me PLAY. Why've can't people just PLAY? Why do ya'll need so many prompts when some of you are clearly very talented gamers?

Can you please stop mentioning me in your comments. I cringe every time I see Sypher next to "God Flakes"

For the record only add on I use and have ever used are simple UI add ons like FTC and LUI. Please Stop..

Knootewoot

leepalmer95 wrote: »

List of stealthed players...

Isn't this just cheating?

To me it is. The same goes for addons which tell you when to dodge roll/evade or when a projectile is incoming.

"People who use this are good anyway so even without it they would kill you" some say. Right, so they are good players so let's give 'm tools to make them even have more advantage.

I understand some people are upset my being ganked over and over again by stamina procblades. But this will also hurt the weaker magblades. Although i rarely attack from stealth, but from cloak since I am on the move constantly, i do find addons like this cheating.

I find it weak from @zos they just allow this currently and don't shut down addons completely now. I use FTC myself, but only because everytime i want to do pledges people keep asking about my dps. I would gadly give it up.

This cheat-on is another nail in the coffin for PvP for me. Guess i just go, although boring as hell, PvE and wait for a good RvR game (currently have my eyes set on Bannerlord) which is not an mmo.

Sheezabeast

Am I the only one who see's the use of this addon like playing with a handicap? For people not familiar with that term I do not mean literal handicap, in gaming a handicap is an advantage over others because you either lack skill or experience or you just want an easy win in a game. In a single player game where you are the only one effected by it it's one thing but when you have something literally pointing out the names of people hiding near you...that's more than training wheels....that should be a bus ticket back to Blackwater Blade....

EnviousStruggle

im glad this addon is created

and im laught alot on noobs who told its cheating
poor noobs

AzraelKrieg

Sheezabeast wrote: »

Am I the only one who see's the use of this addon like playing with a handicap? For people not familiar with that term I do not mean literal handicap, in gaming a handicap is an advantage over others because you either lack skill or experience or you just want an easy win in a game. In a single player game where you are the only one effected by it it's one thing but when you have something literally pointing out the names of people hiding near you...that's more than training wheels....that should be a bus ticket back to Blackwater Blade....

Most of the people that a voicing their opposition to the addon think that but towards the higher extreme.

Arthg

Dorrino wrote: »

(...)
Q: How this addon came to be?

A: In the current state of stealth ganks in PVP right now, unfortunately we're facing the situation when no amount of crit resistance will save you from a guy one-shotting you from stealth if you're running medium or light armor. At some point i had a thought that i would be awesome if ZOS changed the stealth mechanics to make channeled abilities to get you out of stealth at the beginning of their cast instead of when they hit something.
(...)

A: Yes i did. I wasn't an easy decision to make this addon public. Not because i wanted to keep the addon for myself. I didn't and i don't. I released it as soon as it was ready and thoroughly tested.

The only real reason for my hesitation was that i was afraid of knee-jerk reaction from developers. If i were them i'd disable the addon on the spot and only THEN started the internal discussion on what parts of it can be allowed:)

(...)

Miat

So a talented player with programming skills makes an addon with a political agenda: to change a certain aspect of the game mechanics, namely stealth, because he thinks that squishy builds should not be one-shotted, and that people should be informed when someone enters stealth in their vicinity.
He wrote this addon in the explicit hope that it would trigger a response, at least a discussion, from the devs.

His opinion, his work - the game in the current state allows it - fair enough.

ZOS's reaction so far: no big deal, let's sweep it all under the carpet.
Seriously?

IMHO, this *is* a big deal.
On account of what exactly should a player be informed that someone not in his group has just been killed and that x enemies have just entered stealth in his area?
This addon breaks a key element of the gameplay, it makes tactical ambushes impossible, it nullifies stealth.

Say a squad lies in stealth somewhere and an enemy player rides past.
It used to make sense to let that enemy ride away - it created the illusion in the enemy that the road was clear, and the squad could decide to keep waiting for a greater number of targets without revealing its position.
This is now impossible: the enemy player riding past knows that 24 suckers are "hiding", and can therefore call for reinforcements.

Also, think of the enthousiastic new NB player.
Getting rekt, and rekt, and rekt repeatedly, in spite of her best efforts to play the way she likes - lying in the shadow, striking by surprise etc.
After days of frustrated PVP, someone on the off-chance tells her that people knew in advance she was hiding somewhere, and that they had been ready to strike back, because of that unofficial addon...
How on earth does this not RUIN the ESO experience?

Let me finish by saying that I strongly disliked using stealth in my playstyle. I built tankie, and had got a "come and get me" attitude that more often than not got me killed.
So I'm not in any kind of way selfishly defending a class, or a playstyle.

But seeing ZOS endorsing the position of self-appointed l33t players who dismiss that addon as insignificant -
how much more cr*p can legit players take out of love for this game???

Xexpo

This is like a 'game feature' level addon.
already 800 downloads, that's most of the regular NA PvPers right there

Even if the info given itself isn't gamebreaking on it's own,
wouldn't every person that doesn't install it be at a measurable disadvantage in pvp?

I don't think the advantage of being able to "just know" there are hidden enemies around because I installed an addon should exist.

I also don't think the instagib gank meta should exist either fwiw

Didaco

It's in times like this that I'm proud to be a console paesant.

Grabmoore

Dorrino wrote: »

Edziu wrote: »

yea, they will know you are in stealth around and will be ready for any attack so assaasin class is just garbage with this addon, so now stealth is only to move unnoticed but no more to assasinate anyone

I my opinion the said 'assassin's' playstyle is quite unfair towards the targets. But it should definitely be fun for the 'assassin'.

I have a question. Do you really think ganking is the imminent issue of todays Cyrodiils experience?

As far as I see it, proc set users are to blame. Those are the reason one shots exist. I wear 5 light 2 heavy, but noone will oneshot me except those cheese users.

Ganking is a playstyle, but you force people to stop it and go with the destro zergs.

olsborg

Stamina nightblade isnt automaticly also a ganker, I main a stamina nightblade, and while I can gank pretty well with my build, im built to be openly fighting with good sustain and damage. @susmitds

SodanTok

Complains that oneshot gank builds are OP, creates addon that allows only the highest oneshot builds to gank (builds that oneshot people even if they have their defenses on).

Says it his vision and others may disagree, forces it on others.

silky_soft

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Are we allowed to use this addon until you decide upon a judgement?

At this time, we will not be taking action on accounts using this addon.

I've used it on both sides. Being a DK looking for NB and a NB looking for ganks.
It's a major flaw on your behalf and outright cheating for everyone else.

Dread_Viking

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Are we allowed to use this addon until you decide upon a judgement?

At this time, we will not be taking action on accounts using this addon.

so do you consider this addon a cheat that you have no way of blocking atm or what

AzraelKrieg

Dread_Viking wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Are we allowed to use this addon until you decide upon a judgement?

At this time, we will not be taking action on accounts using this addon.

so do you consider this addon a cheat that you have no way of blocking atm or what

They are still evaluating it internally as said in Jess's first post. Until they have come to a decision about what needs to be done, they can't penalise people for using it.

Edziu

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Dread_Viking wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Armitas wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

Are we allowed to use this addon until you decide upon a judgement?

At this time, we will not be taking action on accounts using this addon.

so do you consider this addon a cheat that you have no way of blocking atm or what

They are still evaluating it internally as said in Jess's first post. Until they have come to a decision about what needs to be done, they can't penalise people for using it.

so dont enter into cyrodil as nb until they "finish it" and after finished will be sure if still dont entering into pvp or will be finally able to enter as squishy build, understood

Skcarkden

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

• If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
• If someone is already stealthed and you’re traveling near then, or enter the area they were initially already stealthed in, you will not be notified of that player.
• If someone uses a Nightblade ability that results in them vanishing, they will not trigger the addon’s alert unless they enter the real “hidden” state (i.e. the eye on the HUD is closed).

We want to thank everyone for sharing your concerns with us about this addon.

Wait.... are you saying this sort of thing is allowed then?

Surely it mustn't be.

Say 3 people are in pvp, 2 on EP and 1 on AD, the 2 are running from the third guy into a narrow area and the entire time the dude from AD somehow only physically saw 1 person, but this add-on detects the other guy, when they kill their first victim they'll know for certain there is still another person there.

There's a difference between keeping your guard up because 'you never know who could be there' and keeping your guard up because 'you do know who's there' because of a addon that tells them everything because they can't pay attention themself.

Annra

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

danielpatrickkeaneub17_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom

Thank you for the detailed reply. Have there been any internal discussions, or any upcoming plans, to institute a no add-ons or no UI PVP campaign?

There are quite a few people who truly enjoy the barebones original UI but are forced into using both add ons and "floaty number" ZOS made UI upgrades in order to maintain competitive balance.

You're welcome! Unfortunately, it isn't currently possible to disable addons for just one campaign and not the others.

Then disable addons on all campaigns immediately please!
This addon, like many similar addons too, is unacceptable.
And please ban the author of this addon for lifetime!

AzraelKrieg

Skcarkden wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

• If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
• If someone is already stealthed and you’re traveling near then, or enter the area they were initially already stealthed in, you will not be notified of that player.
• If someone uses a Nightblade ability that results in them vanishing, they will not trigger the addon’s alert unless they enter the real “hidden” state (i.e. the eye on the HUD is closed).

We want to thank everyone for sharing your concerns with us about this addon.

Wait.... are you saying this sort of thing is allowed then?

Surely it mustn't be.

Say 3 people are in pvp, 2 on EP and 1 on AD, the 2 are running from the third guy into a narrow area and the entire time the dude from AD somehow only physically saw 1 person, but this add-on detects the other guy, when they kill their first victim they'll know for certain there is still another person there.

There's a difference between keeping your guard up because 'you never know who could be there' and keeping your guard up because 'you do know who's there' because of a addon that tells them everything because they can't pay attention themself.

They are still trying to figure out if it should be allowed or not. Good chance it won't be and the API code will need to be adjusted to prevent addons like this from being made in future.

Skcarkden

AzraelKrieg wrote: »

Skcarkden wrote: »

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Hi everyone,

• If someone is in your existing area of detection and they fully enter stealth, the addon will notify you of the name of the player character that successfully went fully “hidden.”
• If someone is already stealthed and you’re traveling near then, or enter the area they were initially already stealthed in, you will not be notified of that player.
• If someone uses a Nightblade ability that results in them vanishing, they will not trigger the addon’s alert unless they enter the real “hidden” state (i.e. the eye on the HUD is closed).

We want to thank everyone for sharing your concerns with us about this addon.

Wait.... are you saying this sort of thing is allowed then?

Surely it mustn't be.

Say 3 people are in pvp, 2 on EP and 1 on AD, the 2 are running from the third guy into a narrow area and the entire time the dude from AD somehow only physically saw 1 person, but this add-on detects the other guy, when they kill their first victim they'll know for certain there is still another person there.

There's a difference between keeping your guard up because 'you never know who could be there' and keeping your guard up because 'you do know who's there' because of a addon that tells them everything because they can't pay attention themself.

They are still trying to figure out if it should be allowed or not. Good chance it won't be and the API code will need to be adjusted to prevent addons like this from being made in future.

Man, i hope so. I mean, i play on PS4 so fortunately if i go into pvp i won't have to put up with any lame brained fools who use this sort of thing. How ZOS are struggling to see how clearly an unfair advantage it is, is a mystery. If you can't see them via line-of-sight on screen, you shouldn't be allowed to know they are there unless another player on your side sees them by line of sight and tells you.

Sigma957

There are still plenty of NB's in cyro even with this addon out for public use, people are still getting instagibbed in under a sec so it hasn't made that much of a difference. The bugged proc sets are the real problem not this addon which everyone can use (on pc).