[DATA MINING] All New Sets!

Derra

Xsorus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Vanzen wrote: »

God luck killing a Imperial stam DK

5 black rose + 5 Knight Errants + Master 1H +Velidreth

Balanced ideed.

A Single Healing Debuff will gut the heals from that setup.

Sometimes i wonder if you even play this game or just theorycraft from spreadsheets because things don´t work out in practice as you think they are.

Really?

Lets see; Masters 1h is 2k Heal Last I checked; 1k in PvP, 500 with a Healing Debuff

Knights Errant is 1203, 600 pvp, 300 with healing debuff.

Imperial is even less... It's what? 6% of your max health and then is cut by half in pvp and healing debuffed is less.

So with healing debuff your looking at around 1k-1.2k healing done... Not terrible but not unkillable.

I can slap troll kings on and probably get the same amount of healing or more just by being a nord in heavy.

Or he'll look at robes of the hist; that's probably 2k heal as gold and it'll go off every second your snared.... I'd much rather use that over knights errants as jewelry as it's going to heal for a *** load more in the long run.

Add in heavy healing bonus, cp, major mending, major vitality all of which should be 100% up on the build focussing on these passive selfheals. You can stick me in a dress an call me sally if knights errand will only heal for 300 on such a build that is not affected by multiple (fasallas included) healing debuffs boosted by cp.

Xsorus

Vanzen wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

juhasman wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Derra wrote: »

Xsorus wrote: »

Vanzen wrote: »

God luck killing a Imperial stam DK

5 black rose + 5 Knight Errants + Master 1H +Velidreth

Balanced ideed.

A Single Healing Debuff will gut the heals from that setup.

Sometimes i wonder if you even play this game or just theorycraft from spreadsheets because things don´t work out in practice as you think they are.

Really?

Lets see; Masters 1h is 2k Heal Last I checked; 1k in PvP, 500 with a Healing Debuff

Knights Errant is 1203, 600 pvp, 300 with healing debuff.

Imperial is even less... It's what? 6% of your max health and then is cut by half in pvp and healing debuffed is less.

So with healing debuff your looking at around 1k-1.2k healing done... Not terrible but not unkillable.

I can slap troll kings on and probably get the same amount of healing or more just by being a nord in heavy.

Or he'll look at robes of the hist; that's probably 2k heal as gold and it'll go off every second your snared.... I'd much rather use that over knights errants as jewelry as it's going to heal for a *** load more in the long run.

Master sword can heal for over 2k in PvP. Major mending and vitality works on it same like minors and cp's

I'm sure it can heal for over 2k in PvP

But with a Healing Debuff on you its not going to Heal for that much.

At some point your reasoning is flawed ...

Cause all healing can be subject to healing debuf, so as far as surviving is concerned and all things beeing equal, 1H + Knight Errants on a stam DK that already has superior mitigation with battle roar is blatantly OP. And as everything helps ... Imperial.

Not even considering the nice +192 dam Knight Errant adds to 1H.

Throw Black Rose with its sustain and its damage and who is gonna complain ?

Or I can go nord; Run Blackrose + Hulking (or really anything) and Troll Kings helm and have around 3.5k Health Regen that's not going to take a hit from Healing Debuffs and get a *** ton of Stamina that Stam DK's love

And before you say "i'll run troll kings" you can't

Because Knights/blackrose is 10 pieces, Which means you gotta choose between Masters 1 hander or Troll Kings

Cinbri

I figure out that Meridia armor still have Blind effect. Would be nice if someone got full set and tested if it has gcd or tcd. With gcd even vr160 it is useless for rvrything except 1v1.

peniku8

gj zos on 'buffing' skoria without mentioning the cooldown in the patchnotes, I almost thought it might be good again

Ashamray

Can all sets be Impenetrable, yes?

runagate

peniku8 wrote: »

gj zos on 'buffing' skoria without mentioning the cooldown in the patchnotes, I almost thought it might be good again

FFS. I was wondering why the proc rate was increased, as it was fine the way it was.

tinythinker

I have mostly been playing lately with a magicka sorc and a magicka templar healer, some good options here. I also like the one that gives the bonus when you do fire damage. My old magicka DK will like that.

Not seeing anything serious for hybrids, though.

So, since the combat team (hey guys!) is trying to really build set diversity, try this:

2 pc: Adds 993 Magicka
3 pc: Adds 993 Stamina
4 pc: Adds 664 Weapon and Spell Critical
5 pc: When your Magicka goes below 10%, Weapon Damage increases by 500 for 10 seconds. When your Stamina goes below 10%, Spell Damage increases by 500 for 10 seconds. Only one damage bonus can be active at a time.

So if you run out of magicka, use your stamina-based abilities while your magicka builds back up. When you run out of stamina, use your magicka-based abilities while your magicka builds back up. If you run out of both at the same time, let's say you go under 10% magicka and then go under 10% stamina a half-second later, you would gain 500 spell damage for half a second then lose that and gain 500 weapon damage.

EDIT: You could also add 127 weapon and spell damage for the four piece bonus just so that there is something even when you aren't out of a resource, but this can also come from other sets.

(I got the idea playing a beginning character on the PTS earlier. It was so fun to use Mage's Fury/Critical Charge as a combo, followed by a Crystal Shard animation-canceled by a light or heavy attack with a maul.)

code65536

Uh, this set on a stamblade is going to cause so much PvP QQ...

runagate

I'm trying to test all these sets in Craglorn but everything is so damned easy to kill that it's not very fun.

On a dual wield stam sorc I made for the stam sets I literally don't even have to block. I can just buff and stand there and let the AoEs kill with no danger whatsoever, not even blocking.

The Undaunted bonus set is annoyingly hard to test and I'm at a loss of how one could even make a gimped quirky build based on its bonus.

Derra

I want a magica equivalent to draugr hulk, bone pirate and automaton (magic dmg) plz

It´s just hilarious how the strongest stamina sets don´t have and equivalent magica counterpart whereas the weaker ones come as both stam and magica version.

runagate

If you ever thought it'd be fun if you have the shield-morph of a skill (say, the s&b gap closer) and every time you use the skill you inadvertently agro every mob anywhere remotely in the vicinity, starting with the farthest away and then in an ever-tightening radius, the Infernal Guardian undaunted set is for you!

A nice set but something you're going to want to use carefully as it has unintended consequences.

juhasman

code65536 wrote: »

Uh, this set on a stamblade is going to cause so much PvP QQ...

I am also concerned about heavy armor dk's. They'll get like ~15k stamina when using danwbreaker , or that s&b ulti. More unkillable builds is coming.

SanTii.92

Dracane wrote: »

Amdar_Godkiller wrote: »

Bowser wrote: »

Paulington wrote: »

UNDAUNTED SETS

Infernal Guardian

This one seems really good for magicka sorcs.

And Dks

I tested infernal guardian.
The uptime and damage seems alright.

But the functionality is very bad. Any target that just moves a bit, will not get hit by it. The projectiles aims in the moment where it procs from your body and it has a very long traveling time. So it misses like 80% of the time. DEFINATELY useless in pvp, in pve maybe okay vs enemies that stand in 1 place.

I also find the way it works very bad. It should target the closest target, not the one that's far away.

You haven't tested enough, Infernal guardian was easily top 3 dps % on most of my duels. Each bolt can crit for 4.5k - 5k dmge and is quite hard to dodge it for melee attackrs.

Xsorus

Infernal Guardian is super good for Triminac Pet Sorcs

TheValkyn

Tremorscale Duneripper is pretty powerful for puncture spam builds. My stam sorc tank (41k stam) is wearing 5 Knight's Errant, 2 Tremorscale Duneripper, master sword and 4 hulking draugr.

Xsorus

TheValkyn wrote: »

Tremorscale Duneripper is pretty powerful for puncture spam builds. My stam sorc tank (41k stam) is wearing 5 Knight's Errant, 2 Tremorscale Duneripper, master sword and 4 hulking draugr.

Yea it seems like it would be; Don't know if I'd want to give up Heroic strike for it on DK.

TheValkyn

Xsorus wrote: »

TheValkyn wrote: »

Tremorscale Duneripper is pretty powerful for puncture spam builds. My stam sorc tank (41k stam) is wearing 5 Knight's Errant, 2 Tremorscale Duneripper, master sword and 4 hulking draugr.

Yea it seems like it would be; Don't know if I'd want to give up Heroic strike for it on DK.

It's a ton of healing from vigor, master sword, errant knight, momentum and/or crit surge which are all pretty strong due to the 41k stam. It's steamrolling overworld content but that's not surprising at all. When it procs it one shots enemies pretty much which at a 50% rate it procs pretty much every 4s.

Mojmir

I'm digging chokethorn, illambras too

Mojomonkeyman

Am I the only one that feels, those sets are rather one-dimensional (and therefore mostly too strong) and unimaginative?

The Vanilla Sets always had a weird kind of balance built in that me think the guy designing them and keeping an eye on the bigger picture was a very chaotic, but very good at his job & clever. I.e.: Most very powerful 5piece bonuses had some kind of offset due to armor type or not so desirable 2-4piece bonuses. It kinda worked and imo that philosophy started dieing slowly after the intro of craglorn. Did ZOS replace someone during that time?

I don`t get that "clever vibe" with those streamlined sets that are thrown at us nowadays. Quantity over quality is all I can see. Almost all are linear, all built for certain max min/max purpose, which will make the next patch so absurd balance wise, it will not be fun at all.

Dear ZOS, those sets are mostly bland and not well thought out from a balance point of view and will lead to huge amounts of afterpatch bandaids and issues. Who in your office is keeping those stats in check, while keeping the big picture in mind (the multitude of additive and multiplicative buffs, cp, battle spirit, etc.)? Is it the same person that has done it for the vanilla sets? I`m really interested to know.

Best regards

TheValkyn

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Am I the only one that feels, those sets are rather one-dimensional (and therefore mostly too strong) and unimaginative?

The Vanilla Sets always had a weird kind of balance built in that me think the guy designing them and keeping an eye on the bigger picture was a very chaotic, but very good at his job & clever. I.e.: Most very powerful 5piece bonuses had some kind of offset due to armor type or not so desirable 2-4piece bonuses. It kinda worked and imo that philosophy started dieing slowly after the intro of craglorn. Did ZOS replace someone during that time?

I don`t get that "clever vibe" with those streamlined sets that are thrown at us nowadays. Quantity over quality is all I can see. Almost all are linear, all built for certain max min/max purpose, which will make the next patch so absurd balance wise, it will not be fun at all.

Dear ZOS, those sets are mostly bland and not well thought out from a balance point of view and will lead to huge amounts of afterpatch bandaids and issues. Who in your office is keeping those stats in check, while keeping the big picture in mind (the multitude of additive and multiplicative buffs, cp, battle spirit, etc.)? Is it the same person that has done it for the vanilla sets? I`m really interested to know.

Best regards

There weren't any 5 piece vanilla sets were there? Most, if not all, were 3 piece if I remember correctly. Nick Konkle left the company and ever since the combat and itemization has suffered.

Mojomonkeyman

TheValkyn wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Am I the only one that feels, those sets are rather one-dimensional (and therefore mostly too strong) and unimaginative?

The Vanilla Sets always had a weird kind of balance built in that me think the guy designing them and keeping an eye on the bigger picture was a very chaotic, but very good at his job & clever. I.e.: Most very powerful 5piece bonuses had some kind of offset due to armor type or not so desirable 2-4piece bonuses. It kinda worked and imo that philosophy started dieing slowly after the intro of craglorn. Did ZOS replace someone during that time?

I don`t get that "clever vibe" with those streamlined sets that are thrown at us nowadays. Quantity over quality is all I can see. Almost all are linear, all built for certain max min/max purpose, which will make the next patch so absurd balance wise, it will not be fun at all.

Dear ZOS, those sets are mostly bland and not well thought out from a balance point of view and will lead to huge amounts of afterpatch bandaids and issues. Who in your office is keeping those stats in check, while keeping the big picture in mind (the multitude of additive and multiplicative buffs, cp, battle spirit, etc.)? Is it the same person that has done it for the vanilla sets? I`m really interested to know.

Best regards

There weren't any 5 piece vanilla sets were there? Most, if not all, were 3 piece if I remember correctly. Nick Konkle left the company and ever since the combat and itemization has suffered.

Maybe I`m confusing something, but I`m thinking & talking about the era of original spectres eye, arena, warlord, cyro light, the cyro sets (5% dmg reduc from players) and so on, should be roughly 1.1-1.5 as far as I remember, right?

Banana

Crikey. So many options

Hiero_Glyph

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Am I the only one that feels, those sets are rather one-dimensional (and therefore mostly too strong) and unimaginative?

The Vanilla Sets always had a weird kind of balance built in that me think the guy designing them and keeping an eye on the bigger picture was a very chaotic, but very good at his job & clever. I.e.: Most very powerful 5piece bonuses had some kind of offset due to armor type or not so desirable 2-4piece bonuses. It kinda worked and imo that philosophy started dieing slowly after the intro of craglorn. Did ZOS replace someone during that time?

I don`t get that "clever vibe" with those streamlined sets that are thrown at us nowadays. Quantity over quality is all I can see. Almost all are linear, all built for certain max min/max purpose, which will make the next patch so absurd balance wise, it will not be fun at all.

Dear ZOS, those sets are mostly bland and not well thought out from a balance point of view and will lead to huge amounts of afterpatch bandaids and issues. Who in your office is keeping those stats in check, while keeping the big picture in mind (the multitude of additive and multiplicative buffs, cp, battle spirit, etc.)? Is it the same person that has done it for the vanilla sets? I`m really interested to know.

Best regards

Let's be honest, most of the new sets are copy and pastes of one another. Count how many sets offer 386 weapon/spell damage with a condition (and they still messed it up for magicka). That's not variety, that's someone on a deadline who just stopped trying.

I agree that I liked some of the mixed sets but with soft caps gone that was from another time. Now the only thing ZOS cares about is power creep (new DLC has stronger items) and forcing grinds (BoP). I miss the days when variety actually meant diversity; now it just means quantity over quality.

Mojomonkeyman

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Ivan04 wrote: »

I gotta say, with all those sets we're gonna see a great lot more super-unkillable tanks everywhere.

Just add Templars and it will get a lot

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Am I the only one that feels, those sets are rather one-dimensional (and therefore mostly too strong) and unimaginative?

The Vanilla Sets always had a weird kind of balance built in that me think the guy designing them and keeping an eye on the bigger picture was a very chaotic, but very good at his job & clever. I.e.: Most very powerful 5piece bonuses had some kind of offset due to armor type or not so desirable 2-4piece bonuses. It kinda worked and imo that philosophy started dieing slowly after the intro of craglorn. Did ZOS replace someone during that time?

I don`t get that "clever vibe" with those streamlined sets that are thrown at us nowadays. Quantity over quality is all I can see. Almost all are linear, all built for certain max min/max purpose, which will make the next patch so absurd balance wise, it will not be fun at all.

Dear ZOS, those sets are mostly bland and not well thought out from a balance point of view and will lead to huge amounts of afterpatch bandaids and issues. Who in your office is keeping those stats in check, while keeping the big picture in mind (the multitude of additive and multiplicative buffs, cp, battle spirit, etc.)? Is it the same person that has done it for the vanilla sets? I`m really interested to know.

Best regards

Let's be honest, most of the new sets are copy and pastes of one another. Count how many sets offer 386 weapon/spell damage with a condition (and they still messed it up for magicka). That's not variety, that's someone on a deadline who just stopped trying.

I agree that I liked some of the mixed sets but with soft caps gone that was from another time. Now the only thing ZOS cares about is power creep (new DLC has stronger items) and forcing grinds (BoP). I miss the days when variety actually meant diversity; now it just means quantity over quality.

Yeah, feels like really nasty fast food. They prolly know its unhealthy, but as long as simpler minds are pleased with lots of shiny new stuff, quick & cheap, this direction will sadly be continued nonetheless.

Derra

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Ivan04 wrote: »

I gotta say, with all those sets we're gonna see a great lot more super-unkillable tanks everywhere.

Just add Templars and it will get a lot

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Am I the only one that feels, those sets are rather one-dimensional (and therefore mostly too strong) and unimaginative?

The Vanilla Sets always had a weird kind of balance built in that me think the guy designing them and keeping an eye on the bigger picture was a very chaotic, but very good at his job & clever. I.e.: Most very powerful 5piece bonuses had some kind of offset due to armor type or not so desirable 2-4piece bonuses. It kinda worked and imo that philosophy started dieing slowly after the intro of craglorn. Did ZOS replace someone during that time?

I don`t get that "clever vibe" with those streamlined sets that are thrown at us nowadays. Quantity over quality is all I can see. Almost all are linear, all built for certain max min/max purpose, which will make the next patch so absurd balance wise, it will not be fun at all.

Dear ZOS, those sets are mostly bland and not well thought out from a balance point of view and will lead to huge amounts of afterpatch bandaids and issues. Who in your office is keeping those stats in check, while keeping the big picture in mind (the multitude of additive and multiplicative buffs, cp, battle spirit, etc.)? Is it the same person that has done it for the vanilla sets? I`m really interested to know.

Best regards

Let's be honest, most of the new sets are copy and pastes of one another. Count how many sets offer 386 weapon/spell damage with a condition (and they still messed it up for magicka). That's not variety, that's someone on a deadline who just stopped trying.

I agree that I liked some of the mixed sets but with soft caps gone that was from another time. Now the only thing ZOS cares about is power creep (new DLC has stronger items) and forcing grinds (BoP). I miss the days when variety actually meant diversity; now it just means quantity over quality.

Yeah, feels like really nasty fast food. They prolly know its unhealthy, but as long as simpler minds are pleased with lots of shiny new stuff, quick & cheap, this direction will sadly be continued nonetheless.

Well we have to admit though that even back in the day the laaaaarge majority of people used all the same sets. They use those that were straight forward in all of their bonuses.

In that regard i like what zos is doing. Yes they´re offering a lot of straight forward sets - but they´re offering them many "directions" for builds. Crit, maxresource, dmgstats.
Meanwhile they offer also some sets that let you build for special effects you can build around (Fiord, prisoner, knights errand)

The thing i don´t agree with is the strongest stamina sets: Automaton (386 weapondmg on physical), draugr hulk (all stam bonuses without requirement), and bone pirate (maxstam and stamreg with active drink) do not have a magica equivalent.
Literally the three best non special effect 5p setbonuses are stamina exclusive. That is bad design blantantly in favor of stamina @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

Hiero_Glyph

Derra wrote: »

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

Ivan04 wrote: »

I gotta say, with all those sets we're gonna see a great lot more super-unkillable tanks everywhere.

Just add Templars and it will get a lot

Mojomonkeyman wrote: »

Am I the only one that feels, those sets are rather one-dimensional (and therefore mostly too strong) and unimaginative?

The Vanilla Sets always had a weird kind of balance built in that me think the guy designing them and keeping an eye on the bigger picture was a very chaotic, but very good at his job & clever. I.e.: Most very powerful 5piece bonuses had some kind of offset due to armor type or not so desirable 2-4piece bonuses. It kinda worked and imo that philosophy started dieing slowly after the intro of craglorn. Did ZOS replace someone during that time?

I don`t get that "clever vibe" with those streamlined sets that are thrown at us nowadays. Quantity over quality is all I can see. Almost all are linear, all built for certain max min/max purpose, which will make the next patch so absurd balance wise, it will not be fun at all.

Dear ZOS, those sets are mostly bland and not well thought out from a balance point of view and will lead to huge amounts of afterpatch bandaids and issues. Who in your office is keeping those stats in check, while keeping the big picture in mind (the multitude of additive and multiplicative buffs, cp, battle spirit, etc.)? Is it the same person that has done it for the vanilla sets? I`m really interested to know.

Best regards

Let's be honest, most of the new sets are copy and pastes of one another. Count how many sets offer 386 weapon/spell damage with a condition (and they still messed it up for magicka). That's not variety, that's someone on a deadline who just stopped trying.

I agree that I liked some of the mixed sets but with soft caps gone that was from another time. Now the only thing ZOS cares about is power creep (new DLC has stronger items) and forcing grinds (BoP). I miss the days when variety actually meant diversity; now it just means quantity over quality.

Yeah, feels like really nasty fast food. They prolly know its unhealthy, but as long as simpler minds are pleased with lots of shiny new stuff, quick & cheap, this direction will sadly be continued nonetheless.

Well we have to admit though that even back in the day the laaaaarge majority of people used all the same sets. They use those that were straight forward in all of their bonuses.

In that regard i like what zos is doing. Yes they´re offering a lot of straight forward sets - but they´re offering them many "directions" for builds. Crit, maxresource, dmgstats.
Meanwhile they offer also some sets that let you build for special effects you can build around (Fiord, prisoner, knights errand)

The thing i don´t agree with is the strongest stamina sets: Automaton (386 weapondmg on physical), draugr hulk (all stam bonuses without requirement), and bone pirate (maxstam and stamreg with active drink) do not have a magica equivalent.
Literally the three best non special effect 5p setbonuses are stamina exclusive. That is bad design blantantly in favor of stamina @ZOS_GinaBruno @Wrobel

^This. Also don't forget that even when they do mirror magic and stamina like with the Spinner's and Spriggan's sets (3.9k mag/phys pen), they also give stamina something exclusive (Kra'gh w/ 1.9k physical penetration as a 1-pc).

While I personally don't want all sets to be copies of one another, at some point this blatant favoritism has to stop.

Blackfyre20

peniku8 wrote: »

gj zos on 'buffing' skoria without mentioning the cooldown in the patchnotes, I almost thought it might be good again

Did they increase the cooldown and not mention it in patch notes? I'm on PS4 so i can't see on PTS. I was excited for the skoria buff but this makes it sound like it was actually nerfed?

Shadesofkin

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

peniku8 wrote: »

gj zos on 'buffing' skoria without mentioning the cooldown in the patchnotes, I almost thought it might be good again

Did they increase the cooldown and not mention it in patch notes? I'm on PS4 so i can't see on PTS. I was excited for the skoria buff but this makes it sound like it was actually nerfed?

Last I checked the cooldown was 6s, if anything they shortened it.

susmitds

Shadesofkin wrote: »

Blackfyre20 wrote: »

peniku8 wrote: »

gj zos on 'buffing' skoria without mentioning the cooldown in the patchnotes, I almost thought it might be good again

Did they increase the cooldown and not mention it in patch notes? I'm on PS4 so i can't see on PTS. I was excited for the skoria buff but this makes it sound like it was actually nerfed?

Last I checked the cooldown was 6s, if anything they shortened it.

There was always a CD of 6 secs. They never mentioned it.

Pandorii

The only valid counterargument against the magicka people who were shocked at the initial lack of balance changes in the PTS patch notes was the possibility that sets might be a bandaid fix to the foundational problems. As it turns out, even in the design of the armor sets, they tend to be biased towards stamina.

Stamina types should be bothered by this too. If they are only thinking about their own independent strength, yes, they will be stronger next patch, but this is an MMORPG, and it means that even if you are stam, you're likely going to be fighting one of these unkillable builds yourself. Other than tanky heavy armored magplars jesus beaming you from a safe distance, all you stamina people are going to be running into is other OP stams. Consider that idea for a second...

In a PvE context, you'll be only as OP as the other stamina DPS that could compete for your space in the raid, dungeon, or trial.

Balance is important for diversity's sake. It doesn't matter who had supremacy before or in the past. I'm tired of seeing that argument. Balance needs to happen soon, if not now.