DPS Tests and Trials Breeding Elitism

Gashgul99

what are you guys talking about ?

code65536

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

All these dps *** are deluded anyway dude. They only have that for 40s and they are out of resources so doing nothing. That's why esp on console the super hard content is hard as all they want is stam DKs that can't pull 10k dps after 45s...but still bruh. ..did bloodspawn in 30s..means I r entitled.

Nice, somebody clearly has 0 knowledge about this thing called ressource management. Bc everybody runs out of ressources after 40 sec I guess all those dps Screenshots of 45-50k+ over 3+ min are clearly faked.

Try pulling that against the mantikora. You can't with the blocking, the chasing it around floor with tank moving it away from poison aoe, dodging popcorn. Try pulling those numbers in a fight where you aren't planted spamming rapid strikes, rending slashes, rapids, claw and so on and so forth. To pull those kinds of numbers you're exhausting something like....what....2k stam per skill, so in 3s you've laid down...hail, lethal injection, rapids, rending..tell me how much stam that is and how much regen you need to keep that up for 10 mins...
Get anyone to do this BS test and make a video of it and see thier stam levels and tell me they have enough stam to last a fight against a boss with 62m health. Another boss example is that whispmother thing in AA. With 62m health. You cannot park up and pull those figures for the whole fight. In fact stam *** are generally the last to get a hit on the clone spawns that appear.

This guy apparently can...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9sau6ZaoeLQ

Gashgul99

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

All these dps *** are deluded anyway dude. They only have that for 40s and they are out of resources so doing nothing. That's why esp on console the super hard content is hard as all they want is stam DKs that can't pull 10k dps after 45s...but still bruh. ..did bloodspawn in 30s..means I r entitled.

Nice, somebody clearly has 0 knowledge about this thing called ressource management. Bc everybody runs out of ressources after 40 sec I guess all those dps Screenshots of 45-50k+ over 3+ min are clearly faked.

Try pulling that against the mantikora. You can't with the blocking, the chasing it around floor with tank moving it away from poison aoe, dodging popcorn. Try pulling those numbers in a fight where you aren't planted spamming rapid strikes, rending slashes, rapids, claw and so on and so forth. To pull those kinds of numbers you're exhausting something like....what....2k stam per skill, so in 3s you've laid down...hail, lethal injection, rapids, rending..tell me how much stam that is and how much regen you need to keep that up for 10 mins...
Get anyone to do this BS test and make a video of it and see thier stam levels and tell me they have enough stam to last a fight against a boss with 62m health. Another boss example is that whispmother thing in AA. With 62m health. You cannot park up and pull those figures for the whole fight. In fact stam *** are generally the last to get a hit on the clone spawns that appear.

10 min fight AA last Boss . Almost no stam problems. What are you talking about ^^

zerosingularity

Lol people complaining about CE, getting High DPS on a stam user without running out of stam isn't actually that hard. Potions+VO and good positioning takes care of most of it.

And remember, raid DPS =/= solo DPS, all them debuffs add huuuuuge amounts of DPS to a good rotation.

Arnorien16

Well I think most non idiotic people actually judges by action not words. All these problem would disappear if people assumed a default stance of not believing people.

hedna123b14_ESO

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Woeler wrote: »

If you can't handle the heat, get out of the kitchen. When will people understand there is a part of our community that enjoy pushing the limits? Veteran trials are OUR content. If you don't like the community for those things DONT DO THEM. You are not entitled to completing all content in this game with low effort.

Like pvp is not for me, vet trials are not for you. Deal. With. It.

Then again most trial guilds are always willing to help you improve. The problem with you people is, you don't want to improve, you just want to complete the content. Don't make it look like it's someone else's fault, because it's not. This content has minimum requirements, and if you are not willing to (yes this is simply an "I want to factor") go for that level, simply stop bothering. But don't come here to the forums complaining how elitist everyone is for not carrying lazy people through vet maw.

Also how many deaths did we have on vmol hard mode? 4, 5? All 17k life DD's. Did you hear anyone blame the healer? Nope. The tank? Nope. We just played on. Stop talking nonsense to prove your own biased points about a community you apparently know nothing about.

I am constantly busy helping new tanks go to trials. I even watched some streams, helped an xbox guild complete vet maw. Posts like yours are exactly what creates the toxicity, because you are talking about people you KNOW NOTHING about.

...? Are you serious? Is dude serious? Certainly you had a bad day, or woke-up on the wrong side of the bed — yes? You didn't mean all that. You didn't mean those highly-venomous and toxic words you just directed at me. I know for a fact you didn't mean that. And I forgive you in advance.

I tip my hat to you sir, alienating Woeler is without doubt one of the fastest ways to alienate the PvE community. Not even I as a fairly consistent troll can accomplish this as quickly as you are about to.

N'ah bro. Not alienation. It's called having basic respect for people. Both offline and online. And even then, I don't care WHO you are. You do not disrespect people offline, or online. And if you do, don't do it to me. I don't tolerate it offline, and best believe ya boy isn't going to tolerate it online. At the end of the day, this is ESO. A GAME that was created to provide entertainment and a means to be social with others who are fans of the Elder Scrolls franchise. I'm not about to sit here and tolerate myself getting chumped by this individual. No. Not happening. I beta tested this game, and have been playing it on 2 platforms for a VERY long time. So please, don't even try it. Also, I believe I was very polite and respectful when addressing dude. But, if you think I'm going to be submissive??? You're wilding, and tweaking heavy.

two points right off, one Woeler doesn't have the slightest idea who I am and I know him only by reputation. Two he has said nothing about the person only about there intent with a character. Woeler also has eight kinds of guides and a guild that helps new players along with being nice enough to help the general community with complicated questions such as specific if/then statements inside vMOL. That doesn't sound like a player that would ever insult another person over a game.

Read what they just directed at me, and tell me that's not insulting. Regardless, I said what I meant. And best believe I meant what I said. And I'll say it once more. I don't care who anyone is. Nor what their reputation is, or accolades. It's called being respectful to others, and being respectful of the fact that EVERYONE is entitled to an opinion. Whether or not we have to agree with it, is a whole other story in itself. Because in the end, we don't have to agree on things. And that is perfectly fine in of itself. However, there is a way of getting your point across without being direspectful and insulting. And then you tell me of how I'm supposed to just bow out, and deal with what they just said to me? Lol. For real, bruh-bruh? Just because of their reputation and cyber accolades, I'm supposed to just let it slide? Word?

Fair, lets review his post.

-Players enjoying hard content, and being the best at it.
-Content being hard takes time and effort to complete
-Trials have minimum requirements, because of that players need to as well.
-Guilds arent the issue, most players wont put time in to improve.
-17k health isnt a fault, evidence is his raiding team (arguably the best in the game) runs it
as a standard.

Exactly what part of that has offended you as a person?

The part where I do not agree with his biased views.

Do you have a problem, bro...? Because honestly, you're coming off super aggressive and venomous. And you're REALLY making me both angry and uncomfortable. If you have a personal issue with me, PM me about it. And we can handle it low-key and or in PVP, if things progress like that. But, you're really coming off disrespectful. And you don't know me like that. I've been trying to be really polite and respectful, but you're stepping on my toes G. And I really don't like it. So I'd appreciate it if you stop, or just put me on ignore, or just message me. Because I'm REALLY not feeling you right now, bruh.

Love the attention seeking QQ posts, keep em coming I got popcorn.

PurifedBladez

KramUzibra wrote: »

PurifedBladez wrote: »

I didn't read your whole post because I just had to respond. I hate these type of players so much lol. I rarely play pve content and this is one of the reasons. That environment can get so toxic.

Not to say it doesnt happen in pvp either. I remember saying something in zone chat the other day in Cyrodill only to have some smartass ask who I was.. he then went on to tell me that I'm mister nobody like people actually knew who he was lol. Are you *** kidding me dude? How cocky can one kid be?

On the xbox if you're not talking about how big your epeen is throughout the various chats you'll never get in with the "cool kids." Lol. And I'm okay with that.

Whats wrong with being extremely good at a game and proudly announcing it to the world? How is it toxic to want to team up with the best of the best? I don't think other players should degrade or belittle you but I'll be the first to tell you if you're doing something wrong or if there's a particular area that you should improve on especially if we're running a dungeon on trial.

Maybe you haven't seen this community on xbox.

LadyNalcarya

PurifedBladez wrote: »

KramUzibra wrote: »

PurifedBladez wrote: »

I didn't read your whole post because I just had to respond. I hate these type of players so much lol. I rarely play pve content and this is one of the reasons. That environment can get so toxic.

Not to say it doesnt happen in pvp either. I remember saying something in zone chat the other day in Cyrodill only to have some smartass ask who I was.. he then went on to tell me that I'm mister nobody like people actually knew who he was lol. Are you *** kidding me dude? How cocky can one kid be?

On the xbox if you're not talking about how big your epeen is throughout the various chats you'll never get in with the "cool kids." Lol. And I'm okay with that.

Whats wrong with being extremely good at a game and proudly announcing it to the world? How is it toxic to want to team up with the best of the best? I don't think other players should degrade or belittle you but I'll be the first to tell you if you're doing something wrong or if there's a particular area that you should improve on especially if we're running a dungeon on trial.

Maybe you haven't seen this community on xbox.

Well it looks like its not the dps meters that cause "elitism" then. Its other way around - there's no dps meters on consoles so people worship that bloodspawn test religiously.
Ofc if OP isnt trolling.

Wifeaggro13

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Read what they just directed at me, and tell me that's not insulting. Regardless, I said what I meant.

What you mean is insulting.
Many people from top guilds are actually helping people and there's little to none toxic players (because those arent team players, you know). Also no one really brags with their bloodspawn parses.
And for you, those people and angry scrubs that cant survive in hel ra are the same. When they actually arent, people who can only pull decent nrs on a gargoyle and die right and left all the time clearly arent that "elite".

I do agree with this, I have met some top end players that are helpful. It's usually the older gamer though. The early 20's gamer is still very friggin elite and obnoxious though. Some of the top end guilds have opened shop on starter guilds giving player the chance to farm a few of the v trials. Then they fill vacancy from performers and dedicated players from there. But the game design still just pigeon holes the majority to dps. By design there are less spots for people who build main heals or tanks. And at the upper echelon Specific CP builds are required. At the very least Zos could introduce a dual load out on the CP system.personaly I hate the dps role I've never played it in any Mmo I usually play tank or high end utility, like bard or enchanter. Sadly utility roles do not exist in eso

Well it doesnt really pigeonhole anyone. If a person is capable of tanking/healing vet trials, then theyre usually given a chance.
And theres only 2 role for tanks and 2 for healers in any group, so dds just have more opportunities to join a group. There's just less slots for those by design. But on the other hand, competition amongst high-end dds is insane, as almost everyone prefers to play as a dd anyway.
For new players, there's one more thing - its easier to learn trial mechanics as a dd, so some groups would offer a dd spot for a first-timer, to give them an opportunity to see how the trial works. I dont think thats offensive, it just makes things easier for everyone.

Yeah but how you go about achieveing these rolls is usually extremely limited.

Vet Trials design is designed with the assumption the tank will allways be blocking. And the creatures hit like it. And while I'm not a healer main, I'd bet there's a way to achieve the maximum ammount of healing per second and that somebody has found it.

Hell, it's incredibly easy to *** up a DPS build nowadays, I know alot of people who came -back- to the game and got totally screwed over because the setup that was slightly hybridized, but worked when the softcaps were in place was destroyed by their removal, and how much of a impact total magicka and stamina have on DPS now.

I would strongly disagree. I did vMoL and other vet trials on all 3 roles and would say that tank was the most challenging (I like this kind of challenge tho, so I might be a bit biased :P ).
And for example as a tank, its not all about "just blocking". It used to be like this when we had outdated vr12 raids and everyones strategy was just "stack and burn", but now its in the past. For example, positioning is really important now (and affects group dps greatly), now there are buffs/debuffs, sometimes cc, interrupts and other things...

I agree tanking is in better shape sure. Mechanics are moving in a good direction. I enjoy tanking in the new hist dungeons more then any dungeon previously. and did VSO for first time and yes it requires the tank to posistion and hold aggro move boss and so forth. But there is really no pulling teqniques, no true aggro table and very little reason for off tanks. they need to evolve their end game more Reguardless DPS and situational wareness is high lvl at this part of end game. but some of the mechanics are still missing quite a bit. Hit boxes on these large mobs are very buggy . sometime ranged taunts wont land and Cleave posistioning is wonky. Yes tanking is moving in a better direction but there is no utility , CC or any other dynamic in this content other then Burn , slow burn kill adds

LadyNalcarya

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Read what they just directed at me, and tell me that's not insulting. Regardless, I said what I meant.

What you mean is insulting.
Many people from top guilds are actually helping people and there's little to none toxic players (because those arent team players, you know). Also no one really brags with their bloodspawn parses.
And for you, those people and angry scrubs that cant survive in hel ra are the same. When they actually arent, people who can only pull decent nrs on a gargoyle and die right and left all the time clearly arent that "elite".

I do agree with this, I have met some top end players that are helpful. It's usually the older gamer though. The early 20's gamer is still very friggin elite and obnoxious though. Some of the top end guilds have opened shop on starter guilds giving player the chance to farm a few of the v trials. Then they fill vacancy from performers and dedicated players from there. But the game design still just pigeon holes the majority to dps. By design there are less spots for people who build main heals or tanks. And at the upper echelon Specific CP builds are required. At the very least Zos could introduce a dual load out on the CP system.personaly I hate the dps role I've never played it in any Mmo I usually play tank or high end utility, like bard or enchanter. Sadly utility roles do not exist in eso

Well it doesnt really pigeonhole anyone. If a person is capable of tanking/healing vet trials, then theyre usually given a chance.
And theres only 2 role for tanks and 2 for healers in any group, so dds just have more opportunities to join a group. There's just less slots for those by design. But on the other hand, competition amongst high-end dds is insane, as almost everyone prefers to play as a dd anyway.
For new players, there's one more thing - its easier to learn trial mechanics as a dd, so some groups would offer a dd spot for a first-timer, to give them an opportunity to see how the trial works. I dont think thats offensive, it just makes things easier for everyone.

Yeah but how you go about achieveing these rolls is usually extremely limited.

Vet Trials design is designed with the assumption the tank will allways be blocking. And the creatures hit like it. And while I'm not a healer main, I'd bet there's a way to achieve the maximum ammount of healing per second and that somebody has found it.

Hell, it's incredibly easy to *** up a DPS build nowadays, I know alot of people who came -back- to the game and got totally screwed over because the setup that was slightly hybridized, but worked when the softcaps were in place was destroyed by their removal, and how much of a impact total magicka and stamina have on DPS now.

I would strongly disagree. I did vMoL and other vet trials on all 3 roles and would say that tank was the most challenging (I like this kind of challenge tho, so I might be a bit biased :P ).
And for example as a tank, its not all about "just blocking". It used to be like this when we had outdated vr12 raids and everyones strategy was just "stack and burn", but now its in the past. For example, positioning is really important now (and affects group dps greatly), now there are buffs/debuffs, sometimes cc, interrupts and other things...

I agree tanking is in better shape sure. Mechanics are moving in a good direction. I enjoy tanking in the new hist dungeons more then any dungeon previously. and did VSO for first time and yes it requires the tank to posistion and hold aggro move boss and so forth. But there is really no pulling teqniques, no true aggro table and very little reason for off tanks. they need to evolve their end game more Reguardless DPS and situational wareness is high lvl at this part of end game. but some of the mechanics are still missing quite a bit. Hit boxes on these large mobs are very buggy . sometime ranged taunts wont land and Cleave posistioning is wonky. Yes tanking is moving in a better direction but there is no utility , CC or any other dynamic in this content other then Burn , slow burn kill adds

There is utility in a form of chaining/ccing senche adds in vMoL, spamming ignious shield/vigor during heavy damage phases, warhorn rotation, interrupting certain attacks, etc... For the taunts, tab targeting helps a lot, especially when theres many adds around you.
And yeah, the developers are moving away from "stack and burn" meta which is really good.
I just dont really think tanking is somehow pigeonholed. Imo, it provides as much, if not more, freedom as any other role.
Also, I think that the most pigeonholed role is healing. Simply because theres no better set than spell power cure.

potirondb16_ESO

Sometimes I get toxic

There's actually two part to that kind of issue, the player side and the group side.

IMO, trial is an individual effort for a collective succes. Which mean everyone has to do their job in order to achieve the maximum for the group. Rezzing, bashing and knowing the mecannics all being part of it.

But you also need to know where you stand.

Yesterday, I was running nMoL and ended up in two of the succeded boss fight pulling 25% of the raid DPS on a characther I don't consider to be at my best with. In that group we have a bunch of really high CP, and still it looked as a really poor individual job. On the last boss, we had all the issue of the world getting people to run while it was 100% sure that some player who had a lower dps should have jumped on the opportunity in order to help everyone achieve their goal which was beating the actual trial.

That's when I became toxic ! because overall if you are not a good dps (sometimes we meet people Under 10k dps in trial) and group leader ask who's not having good dps cause we could really use your help on the runner job and you stand there as if you had Something good going... there's an issue as far as you and being a team player. On the other hand, I haven't been either cause I knew I was a good runner, but my job wasn't to be running since I tough I had a better chance at helping people succeding by staying on the boss but still I was toxic.

Rule number one, consider toxicity as a well-shared job

Also Yesterday, I went into my first vSO with a group who had seem to beat it consistently but even if the dps was good there was so many people dieing from PoP corn that I ended up with a 30kdps to be at 25% of the group total dps which was not likely to happend since I went down to help as soon as there was a need for DPS. So overall even if the group had a great dps, movement and awarness was leading the trial, in term of who does the best jobs.

Rule number two, don't consider yourself out-of-the game if you know what you're doing

However ! I've been running some trial with my own guild, and we recently made it pass second boss of vHR but on the last boss we saw we had DPS issue, our DPS team consistently being beaten by the warrior Enrage mode even if we really notice that everyone had great awarness and was really mastering the mecannics.

Rule number three, seek for constant improvement

Those are the rule by which you should judge people

ArchMikem

xblackroxe wrote: »

To your statement that the game is "controlled" by those "elitists" (god I hate when people use this word as an excuse for being bad) is simply not true.

You're in some major denial if you think Elitism doesn't exist.

How do you guess those people got the stuff you think you need to complete the very content those items drop from?

They bought it.

Right they started doing it with other stuff and still got it done. The best dps set (TBS) for almost every build is crafted, Willpower can be farmed/bought and if you can´t get Nerien´eth or Kena you don´t belong into vet trials anyway.

Don't belong? Don't belong? Hey, buddy, pal, amigo, friend, chum. This is a GAME. Everyone here belongs, regardless. Your statement by the way was just filed as another example under "Elitism".

As for saying nobody gets into those "elite" circles is bs. Earn it, as simple as that.

Game. How many times does it need to be clarified. This is a video game. No one needs to "Earn" anything here.

LadyNalcarya

ArchMikem wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

To your statement that the game is "controlled" by those "elitists" (god I hate when people use this word as an excuse for being bad) is simply not true.

You're in some major denial if you think Elitism doesn't exist.

How do you guess those people got the stuff you think you need to complete the very content those items drop from?

They bought it.

Right they started doing it with other stuff and still got it done. The best dps set (TBS) for almost every build is crafted, Willpower can be farmed/bought and if you can´t get Nerien´eth or Kena you don´t belong into vet trials anyway.

Don't belong? Don't belong? Hey, buddy, pal, amigo, friend, chum. This is a GAME. Everyone here belongs, regardless. Your statement by the way was just filed as another example under "Elitism".

As for saying nobody gets into those "elite" circles is bs. Earn it, as simple as that.

Game. How many times does it need to be clarified. This is a video game. No one needs to "Earn" anything here.

Yes its a game.
But some people like to play this game competitively. It doesnt affect casual players, but those casual players have to respect competitive player's rights to play the game their way (and vice versa of course, but in this particular game competitive players are much more often bashed, attacked, called names etc). And attacking them is like attacking people who participate chess tournament because they take a game too seriously and casual chess players cant get any prizes on said competition... Sounds absurd, right?
Vet trials and raiding guilds are pretty much the same as that chess tournament. They are for people who play competitively, and for the rest of players there's 99% of the game.

potirondb16_ESO

ArchMikem wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

To your statement that the game is "controlled" by those "elitists" (god I hate when people use this word as an excuse for being bad) is simply not true.

You're in some major denial if you think Elitism doesn't exist.

How do you guess those people got the stuff you think you need to complete the very content those items drop from?

They bought it.

Right they started doing it with other stuff and still got it done. The best dps set (TBS) for almost every build is crafted, Willpower can be farmed/bought and if you can´t get Nerien´eth or Kena you don´t belong into vet trials anyway.

Don't belong? Don't belong? Hey, buddy, pal, amigo, friend, chum. This is a GAME. Everyone here belongs, regardless. Your statement by the way was just filed as another example under "Elitism".

As for saying nobody gets into those "elite" circles is bs. Earn it, as simple as that.

Game. How many times does it need to be clarified. This is a video game. No one needs to "Earn" anything here.

Your statement is actually quite wrong and would only apply to a solo game. I won't go over statement which are against any type of logic (such as number two) and I will mostly focus on number 3 since it is basicly the same as number 4.

No. 1: TESO is an online game, which mean the difficulty level can't be adjust the same way people will Inside a regular solo game. Which mean that in order to be able to achieve specific content you need to reach the level already decided by the developping teams and so you cannot simply turn down the difficulty level in order to achieve content as you would Inside a solo game.

No. 2: As TESO is an online, it also mean that you are playing with other player who are also looking for the same objective as you. If you are unable to gather item such as the Nerien'eth or Molag Kena which are dropping from relativly easy content. It does mean that the skills needed in order to achieve the next level of difficulty inside the game (normal trial, and then veteran trial) might not be reach yet.

No. 3: As you said TESO is a game, such as football or baseball. In those game as in TESO, player ultimatly reach specifc playtime and responsability as they have gotten better and earn coach respect. As far as a game goes, when it implies playing with other a social respect is always requiered.
----
I don't mean that their ain't any kind of elitism in this game, people who have completed vMA are usually consider better player then those who haven't (especially if they are regular dps for whom this kind of instance are usually easier).

And I don't mean that elitism isn't a good thing either, because overall it ask you to improve and also improve overall group chance of succeeding for everyone so recognizing that is good.

Overall what I think, is that people who complain about elitism are the same who can respect a dude doing 10 home-run in a game but can't respect the dude clearing vMA and being Inside the top 10 leading player. If you have respect for what those player can achieve then it's good, if you don't and only have respect for what you can... well... hope to see you later...

hedna123b14_ESO

ArchMikem wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

To your statement that the game is "controlled" by those "elitists" (god I hate when people use this word as an excuse for being bad) is simply not true.

You're in some major denial if you think Elitism doesn't exist.

How do you guess those people got the stuff you think you need to complete the very content those items drop from?

They bought it.

Right they started doing it with other stuff and still got it done. The best dps set (TBS) for almost every build is crafted, Willpower can be farmed/bought and if you can´t get Nerien´eth or Kena you don´t belong into vet trials anyway.

Don't belong? Don't belong? Hey, buddy, pal, amigo, friend, chum. This is a GAME. Everyone here belongs, regardless. Your statement by the way was just filed as another example under "Elitism".

As for saying nobody gets into those "elite" circles is bs. Earn it, as simple as that.

Game. How many times does it need to be clarified. This is a video game. No one needs to "Earn" anything here.

Actually all the statements he made are accurate, if you don't see it his way you don't have what it takes to be a great player.
1. Elitism occurs when players fail to work hard/smart to improve themselves. I run a guild that trains people how to be amazing players, but we do have a minimum requirement for entry and to reach that requirement is up to the player. If they fail to get there but get mad when we don't accept them and call us elitist that's their provlem.
2. Saying that good players bought the gear that allows them to optimize their damage just makes you look bad...no one I know who runs in top guilds buys their gear. This is the excuse bad players use to cover up their Bad...
3. If you don't have kena or Nerieneth then you don't belong. This statement implies that if you aren't willing to grind out the sets that optimize your damage (like all of us did) then you don't get to say it's unfair when we don't take you. You are NOT ENTITLED to clearing vMoL...it is something that must be earned with hard work/grind/experience/etc. Those who choose not to do this don't deserve the clear.
4. No one needs to earn anything? Do I need to post a link to the dictionary definition of the word earned for you? It means to meet requirements necessary to obtain. Like when you kill a certain amount of mobs and earn an achievement. You HAVE TO kill x mobs to get an achievement. Earning is an INHERENT part of games. If you haven't completed the requirements then you don't get said achievement. With trial groups said requirements vary by group. And it is not up to you to tell another which rules they should have for admission. The leader of the group runs which ever composition they want. If you don't like their requirements you find another group. The issue is that most groups at the high end have the same requirements because they know what works best. If you aren't willing to (and keep in mind this is ALWAYS a choice, because everything in this game can be achieved with effort), that's a problem with YOU, not the rules.
5. All of us had to learn the game from ground up, perfect our playstyle, learn, research and we take great pride in this and want to associate with like minded people OR people willing to work hard to get there. What we despise is people who want handouts...

iam117

I think you have a misconception of what elitism is, I think you believe that all of us bad people that expect things of people are that they do it our way or no way, when in reality most of us just want the people we play with to constantly challenge and better their skill, and when they screw up, just own up, and work on doing it better. There are no massive consequences or /gkick involved, or hate tells or anything else, if you don't want to play for improvement, with people who are trying for the same thing, then don't play with us. I have never had over 500k on my account, that's between 6 maxed toons, I have end game gear on 4 toons, I earned it by grinding for it. With the massive help of my guild. Most people that run in end game guilds farm for their stuff. Every person in my guild earned their spot through hard work, not gold, not cheat engine, and not through putting others down. They did it by pushing themselves and eachother. We dont tell people what armor or skills to run to get there. There is nothing wrong with personal and group improvement and expecation in games or in life. If you have problems with completion, earning things, and other people's goals that's your problem.

xblackroxe

ArchMikem wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

To your statement that the game is "controlled" by those "elitists" (god I hate when people use this word as an excuse for being bad) is simply not true.

You're in some major denial if you think Elitism doesn't exist.

How do you guess those people got the stuff you think you need to complete the very content those items drop from?

They bought it.

Right they started doing it with other stuff and still got it done. The best dps set (TBS) for almost every build is crafted, Willpower can be farmed/bought and if you can´t get Nerien´eth or Kena you don´t belong into vet trials anyway.

Don't belong? Don't belong? Hey, buddy, pal, amigo, friend, chum. This is a GAME. Everyone here belongs, regardless. Your statement by the way was just filed as another example under "Elitism".

As for saying nobody gets into those "elite" circles is bs. Earn it, as simple as that.

Game. How many times does it need to be clarified. This is a video game. No one needs to "Earn" anything here.

1.: I never said elitism doesn´t exists. I said I hate it when its use as an excuse for being bad. There sure are "elitists" but those people aren´t actually good they just think they are and then go into actual hard content like vMOL and start f*cking up EVERY - SINGLE - TIME.

2.: You mean those people that get first clears and farm the [snip] out of trials for Bound on Pickup gear because its BiS? Remember till SotH there was no group trade so most good people had to drop all Vicious Serpent/Infallible Aether on their own.

3.: Yes exactly what I said. If you either can´t or don´t bother to do vWGT or vCOH to drop those set, yes you simply don´t belong into a vet trial. Thinking any remotely good guild that is into progression raiding will take you is an illusion. If you don´t even bother with this content why would anybody want to play with you on a progressive level?

4.: What does that even mean? There are different people that want to play on a different level. If you want to play in top trials guilds then you should be someone those people already in there can trust. That means being on their level, means earning your place there.

Woeler

Lel I missed so much while I was gone from home

Shazgob

Humatiel wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

SienneYviete wrote: »

WTF even is this thread, stop making excuses.

...? Who is making excuses? I ended up getting my Shehai Shatterer after 1 wipe. Which was my third Shehai Shatterer character, as I had it previously for 2 others. Not to mention, I have cleared all content but vet Maw. And by all content, I mean it. With Vet Maw's completion only inches away from me. So... Who is making excuses, and what would they be making excuses about? I highly advise you read closer, because your post isn't making any sense.

Edit - I forgot to include this below:

If your inches from a vmol completion then you should understand that dps tests (at some point in that players pve career) are what made that possible. You can bring a player to content but past a level of content he needs to decide he wants to tailor his build to it.

Even though I have been DPS tested, I hate it. And I hated it then. And honestly, I do not believe it was being tested that brought me to being only hairs away from VMOL completion. But rather: Understanding of game mechanics, understanding of my build and class, having strong situational awareness, putting trust in the group's tanks and healers, and last but certainly not least — being pushed hard by those around me to succeed. And those people not giving up on neither themselves or me. I think it was that which got me to that point. Not being able to kill a mini-boss quicker than most people, while someone healed me and tanked the boss for me. However, I understand your point nonetheless.

• Understanding of game mechanics - can be seen immediately inside vet content
• understanding of my build and class - A dps test displays this.
• having strong situational awareness - can be seen immediately inside vet content
• putting trust in the group's tanks and healers - can be seen immediately inside vet content

so by your own words the first step should be a dps test then move into vet trials to get a good read of the player? Guilds just dont have the time (nor the inclination) to get a new player and say "in the next 120 days you should be at a point to run vet content but until then lets support you". A dps test will show player strength and your first couple trials will show player awareness/teamwork. There are a million numbers pve guilds that a player that isn't ready for vet content can join and grind away at while being half dead until he reaches a point he wants to be better.

edit: to be clear I am not attempting to start an argument, but the general ESO population is so far behind the necessary requirements to complete vet trials your looking at an almost insurmountable level of work to bring them to a minimum standard. That is the general point I am attempting to make by saying a DPS test will make or break a guilds choice of "training" that player.

I feel like you nailed it. Time is precious, especially at this point in the game, a lot of end game guilds have spent their 8-12 months training and working with a team of 8 or so that they run regularly, the other 4 coming and going as is the nature of things. You can't simply stop progression for the majority to train someone who just truly isn't prepared. You can only carry so hard, at some point you have to have guidelines to keep things going.

Always forward, never backwards.

Therwind

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

In MMO's all over, DPS rotations that are preferred over another and following a meta has been a thing. Always. But, on a game like ESO is it really needed?

Time and time again when I'm running trials with people, I'm hearing about this and that person scored such and such Bloodspawn time. And how serious "deeps" they have. But, when we're actually in the middle of the trial? Those same people pulling the supposed "high DPS" are dying all over the place, and then blaming healers and tanks for their mistakes. When in fact, it was their faul for standing in the red or thinking they're Superman. Not cool. And all this then leads to someone trying to tell someone else their role, and you have drama erupt. When in fact, if a person who was taken along who knew the mechanics has had consistent and solid DPS should've been brought along. Not just a person who knows a rotation or 2, and cheesed the supposed test with gear and items they'd never use in an actual trial.

Which leads right into that. People in DPS tests using gear that they'd never use in an actual trial, just to appear good. Supposedly it is to simulate the buffs you get in a trial, but 9x out of 10 that isn't the case. Yesterday in getting my Shehai Shatterer for my Sorcerer, there was a gentleman who supposedly had all this damage this and that. And 1 player even called a king or God. Something along those lines. And upon running VHRC with them, their DPS was below subpar. When asked why his damage was lacking so much, his response was how if he used his DPS testing gear — he'd die all the time. And be too squishy. Eh? So he was considered, because of something he can't even reproduce in an environment where it truly matters? Really though? But, someone who was solid and could maintain solid health and high damage was cast aside due to them missing the "magic time" by 2-3 seconds for a guy who can't even come close...?

And that ties into giving people a chance to shine. Too many times I'm seeing people who are more than capable of doing content that's high-end get forgone, all due to go instead with people who have constant completions. While I understand the appeal of going with experienced players to get content done, as bosses have enrage timers and things of that sort — these trial guilds are forgetting that people have to learn eventually. And with the so-called "elite" and "hardcore" constantly quitting, or getting banned for actually exploiting some how (this is a huge problem on PS4 NA) — the people who aren't "elite" have to start from somewhere. But, it's like no one wants to help these buds grow as players. Sure you have some players who are bad at the game, and refuse to acknowledge what you say when attempting to help them get better. But, what about those who do acknowledge what is said to them? And what about those who do in fact take the words of advice to heart? I'm tired of seeing people not given a chance, that really deserve it. While the so called "elite" aren't so elite, and are basically mediocre players with reputations built on rumors and he-say-she-say.

And lastly, that ties into the "elite" controlling the game as a whole. That may sound ridiculous, but look. Peep game. You have currently hard content, or relatively hard content that is supposedly there to drop gold jewelry and things that make strong layers stronger. Right? So to say a mediocre or medium-tier player, it's out of reach. They can't get better, because they have no one who's willing to take them through the content and really work with them; to help them get this amazing gear. So what you then have there is in guild traders pieces going for ridiculous amounts of gold. And let's be honest, your average player doesn't have 750k-1M gold to bust down on some of these pieces. They don't. Unless they're buying gold off people, and spending their time farming and refining. And even then, that's time that could be spent bettering their skills and honing their knowledge of mechanics to get better.

And lastly, that ties into people basically buying their way into things. A few times now I've been confronted by people, and asked if they could pay me a few hundred thousand to carry them through a trial or dungeon. Absolutely not. That is the most disturbing thing I have come across to date while being heavy in the trial scene. But apparently, this is a very popular thing with those I've spoken with. People who supposedly aren't talented enough, or having connections tight enough to be brought along in a trial having to essentially buy their way into the scene. And that's not right. That's not right at all. That's horrible. Because first of all, it's basically running someone through something they have no clue about it. Preventing them from learning things systematically, and just speeding them through content that should be learned. Not sped through. And also, it is basically taking gold away from someone that they could be spending on some gear or items to help them improve as a player. But instead is being shelled out for the wrong reasons.

So as you can see, there's a lot of issues with things currently at the end-game PVE scene socially speaking. But, they could be fixed if enough light is shed on these things and ZOS addresses them swiftly. I'm tired of seeing and hearing horror stories of people getting mistreated by the "elite", and seeing and hearing the same people doing the mistreatment. Also, I hope this post will provide some insight on somethings for those interested in getting into serious PVE. The next time you see someone's name on a leaderboard, or hear about how "good" so and so is...? Pause for a moment, and really think about it. Take a second and wonder how it is that so and so got there, and wonder how they treat others. And be sure to wonder those things, before you go praising them as many of the clueless do. Because I can tell for a fact, that a solid 50% of "top-tier" people on PS4 NA are not who you think they are. And are quite toxic and practice predatory behavior.

Where on earth are you meeting these people?? Please point me in the right direction. No one wants to even do trials. I've tried for over a year to get a trial group for every week and finally gave up.

Wifeaggro13

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Doctordarkspawn wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Wifeaggro13 wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Read what they just directed at me, and tell me that's not insulting. Regardless, I said what I meant.

What you mean is insulting.
Many people from top guilds are actually helping people and there's little to none toxic players (because those arent team players, you know). Also no one really brags with their bloodspawn parses.
And for you, those people and angry scrubs that cant survive in hel ra are the same. When they actually arent, people who can only pull decent nrs on a gargoyle and die right and left all the time clearly arent that "elite".

I do agree with this, I have met some top end players that are helpful. It's usually the older gamer though. The early 20's gamer is still very friggin elite and obnoxious though. Some of the top end guilds have opened shop on starter guilds giving player the chance to farm a few of the v trials. Then they fill vacancy from performers and dedicated players from there. But the game design still just pigeon holes the majority to dps. By design there are less spots for people who build main heals or tanks. And at the upper echelon Specific CP builds are required. At the very least Zos could introduce a dual load out on the CP system.personaly I hate the dps role I've never played it in any Mmo I usually play tank or high end utility, like bard or enchanter. Sadly utility roles do not exist in eso

Well it doesnt really pigeonhole anyone. If a person is capable of tanking/healing vet trials, then theyre usually given a chance.
And theres only 2 role for tanks and 2 for healers in any group, so dds just have more opportunities to join a group. There's just less slots for those by design. But on the other hand, competition amongst high-end dds is insane, as almost everyone prefers to play as a dd anyway.
For new players, there's one more thing - its easier to learn trial mechanics as a dd, so some groups would offer a dd spot for a first-timer, to give them an opportunity to see how the trial works. I dont think thats offensive, it just makes things easier for everyone.

Yeah but how you go about achieveing these rolls is usually extremely limited.

Vet Trials design is designed with the assumption the tank will allways be blocking. And the creatures hit like it. And while I'm not a healer main, I'd bet there's a way to achieve the maximum ammount of healing per second and that somebody has found it.

Hell, it's incredibly easy to *** up a DPS build nowadays, I know alot of people who came -back- to the game and got totally screwed over because the setup that was slightly hybridized, but worked when the softcaps were in place was destroyed by their removal, and how much of a impact total magicka and stamina have on DPS now.

I would strongly disagree. I did vMoL and other vet trials on all 3 roles and would say that tank was the most challenging (I like this kind of challenge tho, so I might be a bit biased :P ).
And for example as a tank, its not all about "just blocking". It used to be like this when we had outdated vr12 raids and everyones strategy was just "stack and burn", but now its in the past. For example, positioning is really important now (and affects group dps greatly), now there are buffs/debuffs, sometimes cc, interrupts and other things...

I agree tanking is in better shape sure. Mechanics are moving in a good direction. I enjoy tanking in the new hist dungeons more then any dungeon previously. and did VSO for first time and yes it requires the tank to posistion and hold aggro move boss and so forth. But there is really no pulling teqniques, no true aggro table and very little reason for off tanks. they need to evolve their end game more Reguardless DPS and situational wareness is high lvl at this part of end game. but some of the mechanics are still missing quite a bit. Hit boxes on these large mobs are very buggy . sometime ranged taunts wont land and Cleave posistioning is wonky. Yes tanking is moving in a better direction but there is no utility , CC or any other dynamic in this content other then Burn , slow burn kill adds

There is utility in a form of chaining/ccing senche adds in vMoL, spamming ignious shield/vigor during heavy damage phases, warhorn rotation, interrupting certain attacks, etc... For the taunts, tab targeting helps a lot, especially when theres many adds around you.
And yeah, the developers are moving away from "stack and burn" meta which is really good.
I just dont really think tanking is somehow pigeonholed. Imo, it provides as much, if not more, freedom as any other role.
Also, I think that the most pigeonholed role is healing. Simply because theres no better set than spell power cure.

I was not refering to tanking being pigeonholed i was refering to the community at large being pidgeonholed to an end game metric of DPS . it means 90 percent of the population needs to play DPS in endgame .

Mettaricana

Funniest part about trials and leader board crap is I've never once read the leader board I have no idea who the leaders are or why.

Its like

"Do you know who I am!!? I'm the champ!!"

Me: of what?

Kinda wish they'd make better vet dungeon sets so I don't have to put up with trial bs anymore

Kilnerdyne

One does not simply lose sight of their original point and instead embark on an endless vendetta to satisfy some inner urge for victory at all costs, this kind of thing comes with practice. You have practiced being this way and I feel sarcastically apathetic about that.

clv

Champ, in the words of one of the greatest men alive:

"IT'S TIME TO STOP"

- joji

Ch4mpTW

clv wrote: »

Champ, in the words of one of the greatest men alive:

"IT'S TIME TO STOP"

- joji

I stopped a loooong time ago. And honestly, I don't even want to make anymore threads, unless they're question oriented. And that's a damn shame. ._.

Avenias

Kilnerdyne wrote: »

One does not simply lose sight of their original point and instead embark on an endless vendetta to satisfy some inner urge for victory at all costs, this kind of thing comes with practice. You have practiced being this way and I feel sarcastically apathetic about that.

Cos winning is fun.

xblackroxe

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

clv wrote: »

Champ, in the words of one of the greatest men alive:

"IT'S TIME TO STOP"

- joji

I stopped a loooong time ago. And honestly, I don't even want to make anymore threads, unless they're question oriented. And that's a damn shame. ._.

Sooo happy atm. Thats the best thing ive heard in a long time and that says something as i cleared vmol hardmode yesterday.

Ch4mpTW

xblackroxe wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

clv wrote: »

Champ, in the words of one of the greatest men alive:

"IT'S TIME TO STOP"

- joji

I stopped a loooong time ago. And honestly, I don't even want to make anymore threads, unless they're question oriented. And that's a damn shame. ._.

Sooo happy atm. Thats the best thing ive heard in a long time and that says something as i cleared vmol hardmode yesterday.

That's really, really, really, mean and rude. And you're supposed to be kind and not an elitist jerk...? As supposedly those of these high and mighty and supreme guilds are kind and respectful people? Really...? Wow. Just wow.

xblackroxe

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

clv wrote: »

Champ, in the words of one of the greatest men alive:

"IT'S TIME TO STOP"

- joji

I stopped a loooong time ago. And honestly, I don't even want to make anymore threads, unless they're question oriented. And that's a damn shame. ._.

Sooo happy atm. Thats the best thing ive heard in a long time and that says something as i cleared vmol hardmode yesterday.

That's really, really, really, mean and rude. And you're supposed to be kind and not an elitist jerk...? As supposedly those of these high and mighty and supreme guilds are kind and respectful people? Really...? Wow. Just wow.

Don't expect respect from someone you generalized as a jerk together with all my friends. I'm normally a nice person but definitely not to somebody that [snip] talks a whole group of people who you clearly have no idea about.
But sure use it as an example for all those elitists you described in yoir post. Its easy just ignore everything you said before and take this one post completely out of context.

anitajoneb17_ESO

xblackroxe wrote: »

I'm normally a nice person but ...

I love the "I'm a nice person, believe me. If I'm ever not nice it's because someone else provoked it and deserved it. I'm just sooo nice".