DPS Tests and Trials Breeding Elitism

xblackroxe

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

I'm normally a nice person but ...

I love the "I'm a nice person, believe me. If I'm ever not nice it's because someone else provoked it and deserved it. I'm just sooo nice".

This right here is cherry picking on a professional level. This part you qouted is so not the point of my post but whatever.

Kippesnikke

xblackroxe wrote: »

First of all anybody that considers Bloodspawn as an actual good dps/skill test has no place in an trialguild that wants to do HM trials anyway. It just shows you can go through your rotation 2-3 times on a completely immovable target. Thats NOT skill.
If you want to see if a player can play through tactics look at his Manti/Serpent/Rakkat dps. That shows if somebody can dps and still not die in ***.
A good group can run with "squishy" 16-17k health dps/healers through every content in the game (even vMOL HM can be done this way as shown by BI the only ones though for now). There is little to nothing that wouldn´t also 1shot you on 20k.
As I have learned trough the last half a year there is much more to being a good dps than just being capable of doing your rotation. Be aware of what happens around you, don´t stand in red, block/dodge when needed. Amazes me every time how many people can´t seem to get the concept of blocking in their head.

To your statement that the game is "controlled" by those "elitists" (god I hate when people use this word as an excuse for being bad) is simply not true. How do you guess those people got the stuff you think you need to complete the very content those items drop from? Right they started doing it with other stuff and still got it done. The best dps set (TBS) for almost every build is crafted, Willpower can be farmed/bought and if you can´t get Nerien´eth or Kena you don´t belong into vet trials anyway.

As for saying nobody gets into those "elite" circles is bs. Earn it, as simple as that. Show us that you are capable to do vet trials and you get a chance. There are enough guilds out there full of people that don´t know trials and are eager to learn them with same minded people. And don´t forget all those "elitists" guilds also started out with no knowledge (vMOL mostly as not much changed in revamped trials) and worked out tactics. I find it actually funny how people bash us while we provide everybody with videos of our clear explanation videos on how to do the whole trial but still get *** for not helping.

Also at least on EU PC we are mostly pretty friendly between the top guilds as you can see on @Woeler ´s report about gamescom. There is near to no hate/shittalk between those guilds. Though ofcourse there is still rivalry as only one can be the best :P

The next time you see someone's name on a leaderboard, or hear about how "good" so and so is...? Pause for a moment, and really think about it. Take a second and wonder how it is that so and so got there, and wonder how they treat others. And be sure to wonder those things, before you go praising them as many of the clueless do. Because I can tell for a fact, that a solid 50% of "top-tier" people on PS4 NA are not who you think they are. And are quite toxic and practice predatory behavior.

I don´t know how it is on ps4 but I have yet to meet a toxic player from a real top guild on EU. We get on the leaderboard because we are groups of 12 people that know how to play this game and trust in each other that we don´t f*ck up most of the time.

*** you.
toxic enough?

Ch4mpTW

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

I'm normally a nice person but ...

I love the "I'm a nice person, believe me. If I'm ever not nice it's because someone else provoked it and deserved it. I'm just sooo nice".

Supposedly both them and the other person are "very nice" individuals, but both have came at me incredibly aggressively and in a toxic behavior. Then claimed how they are "usually" nice, but were provoked by MY OPINION on things. A simple disagreement would've been just as fine, and in a civilized way. But did that occur? No. And ironically enough, they're both in guilds that supposedly are against behaving like how they behaved in this thread. But then again, I suppose if "certain criteria" are met — it's considered okay to treat other people like that. It's okay to be disrespectful and rude. Because you know. They have a reputation of being so kind and having this and that accolade. And being part of this super noble guild. And doing this and that for the community.

Honestly...? I just want an admin or moderator to close/lock this thread. I've already seen more than I'd like to regarding the behavior of a few people in certain guilds in this very thread, and am tired of the repeated disrespect and rudeness. All that will end-up happening is: Me losing my cool, me saying something that is considered "unacceptable", me getting banned, and those who brought me to that point getting maybe warned or told to be civilized and obey the terms and agreement of this site.

I made this thread as a means to share what I've experienced, and what I feel to be my opinion. People don't have to agree with me, and often times I like disagreements. As I could gain a bit of insight about what it is that I may have not considered, and looked at close enough. Therefore the disagreement becoming a means of growth of sorts. But, instead from a few people in this thread? I experienced the extreme opposite of this, and don't even want it to continue any further. I just want an admin or mod to lock it up, and it be done with. I don't care how long I spent typing it up, and sharing my: Feelings, observations, and opinions in this thread. I just want it over with.

anitajoneb17_ESO

xblackroxe wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

I'm normally a nice person but ...

I love the "I'm a nice person, believe me. If I'm ever not nice it's because someone else provoked it and deserved it. I'm just sooo nice".

This right here is cherry picking on a professional level. This part you qouted is so not the point of my post but whatever.

Want me to elaborate ? Okay let's go.
OP tells us of his experience with some "elite" or "elitist" or "wannabe elite" people - whatever. While, admittedly, grossly generalizing the issue, he didn't mean any of you personnally - especially since none of you (Woeler, Paulington, you, etc...) plays on PS4.
You all Hodor and BI people jump onto OP all jaws ahead for committing such a lese-majesty offence. You do it with totally uncalled for and unnecessary brutality and rudeness. This totally contradicts your self-evaluation of yourself as "nice".

The truth is, there are jerks among noobs just like there are jerks in top players ranks, and there are nice and helpful people among noobs just like there are nice and helpful people in your ranks. However, the way you answered to OP doesn't speak much in favour of considering you as "nice".

Woeler

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

I'm normally a nice person but ...

I love the "I'm a nice person, believe me. If I'm ever not nice it's because someone else provoked it and deserved it. I'm just sooo nice".

This right here is cherry picking on a professional level. This part you qouted is so not the point of my post but whatever.

Want me to elaborate ? Okay let's go.
OP tells us of his experience with some "elite" or "elitist" or "wannabe elite" people - whatever. While, admittedly, grossly generalizing the issue, he didn't mean any of you personnally - especially since none of you (Woeler, Paulington, you, etc...) plays on PS4.
You all Hodor and BI people jump onto OP all jaws ahead for committing such a lese-majesty offence. You do it with totally uncalled for and unnecessary brutality and rudeness. This totally contradicts your self-evaluation of yourself as "nice".

The truth is, there are jerks among noobs just like there are jerks in top players ranks, and there are nice and helpful people among noobs just like there are nice and helpful people in your ranks. However, the way you answered to OP doesn't speak much in favour of considering you as "nice".

Let me reconsidder my statement: I'm evil, Satan summoned me from the depths of hell with as sole task to point people to their own stupidity. Happy now? I answer cynical because this entire topic is a joke of preposterous dimensions.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Woeler wrote: »

Let me reconsidder my statement: I'm evil, Satan summoned me from the depths of hell with as sole task ti poibt people to their own stupidity. Happy now?

LoL, yes ! That's consistent :-)

Ch4mpTW

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

xblackroxe wrote: »

I'm normally a nice person but ...

I love the "I'm a nice person, believe me. If I'm ever not nice it's because someone else provoked it and deserved it. I'm just sooo nice".

This right here is cherry picking on a professional level. This part you qouted is so not the point of my post but whatever.

Want me to elaborate ? Okay let's go.
OP tells us of his experience with some "elite" or "elitist" or "wannabe elite" people - whatever. While, admittedly, grossly generalizing the issue, he didn't mean any of you personnally - especially since none of you (Woeler, Paulington, you, etc...) plays on PS4.
You all Hodor and BI people jump onto OP all jaws ahead for committing such a lese-majesty offence. You do it with totally uncalled for and unnecessary brutality and rudeness. This totally contradicts your self-evaluation of yourself as "nice".

The truth is, there are jerks among noobs just like there are jerks in top players ranks, and there are nice and helpful people among noobs just like there are nice and helpful people in your ranks. However, the way you answered to OP doesn't speak much in favour of considering you as "nice".

Not only that, but what they've failed to realize was — I wasn't even talking about people on PC. Not to cause a PC Vs. Console war, but I specifically mentioned in my very last 2 sentences that the thread was primarily directed at those who I encountered on PS4-NA. And these guildies still went at my throat like that, bruh. But, yet and still these are supposedly "nice people". Here is the proof. Word for word. I wasn't even talking about them, bruh... ._.

Quoted:

Because I can tell for a fact, that a solid 50% of "top-tier" people on PS4 NA are not who you think they are. And are quite toxic and practice predatory behavior.

Tan9oSuccka

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

I agree to many of those.

In some Trials, especially Sanctum Ophidia and Maw of Lorkhaj, there are constantly 531+ DD with insane DPS but sometimes only 17k life with buff food. Also they often don't even block a heavy charge attack or dodge out of a red zone.
And if they die (and they do alot) it is always the fault of the others.

That's clearly the Tank and Healers fault.

*end sarcasm*

I've had glass cannons yell at me before (While standing in red)...Where's my heals??!

Ep1kMalware

Q.Q

idk

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

I agree to many of those.

In some Trials, especially Sanctum Ophidia and Maw of Lorkhaj, there are constantly 531+ DD with insane DPS but sometimes only 17k life with buff food. Also they often don't even block a heavy charge attack or dodge out of a red zone.
And if they die (and they do alot) it is always the fault of the others.

I never see blame cast when a dps dies. I never see someone putting themselves over someone else. However, there are hard dps requirements in the dungeons by design. Whispmother in vAA has a very hard DPS requirement that is not a guild requirement but a requirement of the trial. Whispmother was always a dps check. It is just easy to forget this since we have been running the content that was 4 levels below our level.

Additional, the Mage puts significant pressure on the tank if the groups dps is low. I have heard of 6 axes spawning in the Mage fight. In other words, if the dps is good enough to get past Whispmother, but barely, the tank better be one of the best to handle 6 axes and I doubt they will be able to handle it for long.

There are other trials fights as well that put much more stress on the tank if DPS is on the lower side. I personally see groups as a team and expect everyone to do their best so the group succeeds. Not just the tank.

Oh, I am in a guild that does DPS checks. We do not record the tests and they have no bearing on who raids. It is merely for a player to get a guide on how much they have improved and no one has to do it for any reason other than personal. Sometimes we clear a trial and sometimes we lack the DPS to get the job done.

Ch4mpTW

Giles.floydub17_ESO wrote: »

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

I agree to many of those.

In some Trials, especially Sanctum Ophidia and Maw of Lorkhaj, there are constantly 531+ DD with insane DPS but sometimes only 17k life with buff food. Also they often don't even block a heavy charge attack or dodge out of a red zone.
And if they die (and they do alot) it is always the fault of the others.

I never see blame cast when a dps dies. I never see someone putting themselves over someone else. However, there are hard dps requirements in the dungeons by design. Whispmother in vAA has a very hard DPS requirement that is not a guild requirement but a requirement of the trial. Whispmother was always a dps check. It is just easy to forget this since we have been running the content that was 4 levels below our level.

Additional, the Mage puts significant pressure on the tank if the groups dps is low. I have heard of 6 axes spawning in the Mage fight. In other words, if the dps is good enough to get past Whispmother, but barely, the tank better be one of the best to handle 6 axes and I doubt they will be able to handle it for long.

There are other trials fights as well that put much more stress on the tank if DPS is on the lower side. I personally see groups as a team and expect everyone to do their best so the group succeeds. Not just the tank.

Oh, I am in a guild that does DPS checks. We do not record the tests and they have no bearing on who raids. It is merely for a player to get a guide on how much they have improved and no one has to do it for any reason other than personal. Sometimes we clear a trial and sometimes we lack the DPS to get the job done.

While I disagree with some of what you posted, I agree with the vast majority of it. Take this +1, comrade.

The Uninvited

Kippesnikke wrote: »

*** you.
toxic enough?

MikeTheeElder

Vitriol aside, I think the core issue here is a lack of features on console when it comes to evaluating player performance in end game PvE. It's really simple, and I apologize if anyone has mentioned this and I missed it:

THERE ARE NO PARSES AVAILABLE ON CONSOLE

All Trial leaders have to go on is the Bloodspawn test, theoretical group maximization based on gear/skill set-ups and synergies, and sometimes the "Stormproof" achievement as an indicator of both skill and dedication. Does this lend itself at times to elitism? Certainly, but in a competitive atmosphere it may be an inevitability and ultimately unavoidable. Hopefully we may see them in the future and maybe they will be a more reliable indicator of a player's ability to perform under the rigors of high-end content and players on the outside looking in will get more opportunities to run with focused groups. More than likely however the names that top leaderboards now will top leaderboards at that time as well.

lolo_01b16_ESO

From my point of view, there is a big difference between players that could be titled as "elitist" and those who are actually good. All those people who ask for linked achivements, cp or dps numbers are usually insecure about their own and think they only can complete some content if they take players with them that meet a certain requirement. Sometimes those "leaders" don't even fulfill their own recruting requirements.

If you meet some of the really good players and show them the same respect that you should show towards every stranger you will meet in your life, you'll see that most of them are nice people who just think that improving their character and competing with others is one possible way to have fun in this game. And I can assure you, just because someone is on top of a leaderboeard it doesn't mean he is completely focussed on dps and competition. I still have a great laugh when I discover some funny npcs, I enter dungeons with creative builds and group setups (e.g. tanking with 2h + tormentor gear), I try my best to help other people if they ask in a friendly way and I don't expect anyone to have a certain build, now special tactics or pull certain dps numbers as long as it's not a guild intern raid with the goal to get a top score or complete MoL HM.

Ch4mpTW

mfraher05 wrote: »

Vitriol aside, I think the core issue here is a lack of features on console when it comes to evaluating player performance in end game PvE. It's really simple, and I apologize if anyone has mentioned this and I missed it:

THERE ARE NO PARSES AVAILABLE ON CONSOLE

All Trial leaders have to go on is the Bloodspawn test, theoretical group maximization based on gear/skill set-ups and synergies, and sometimes the "Stormproof" achievement as an indicator of both skill and dedication. Does this lend itself at times to elitism? Certainly, but in a competitive atmosphere it may be an inevitability and ultimately unavoidable. Hopefully we may see them in the future and maybe they will be a more reliable indicator of a player's ability to perform under the rigors of high-end content and players on the outside looking in will get more opportunities to run with focused groups. More than likely however the names that top leaderboards now will top leaderboards at that time as well.

I can agree with this too. Here, you get a +1 to start the week off too.

And to add onto that, I really would love for consoles to have some of the amazing add-one that are available on PC/Mac. Honest to goodness. When going from PC/Mac to PS4, it sometimes takes me a day or so to get fully comfortable again on PS4. Because on PC/Mac, it's like "Easy Mode". Add-ons tell me: When to cleanse, when to execute, when to dodge or block, etc. I can even log data, and thus making things like pin-pointing certain aspects of my play-style much more easier to adjust and tweak. But in the end, all one can do is stay positive and hope for the best I suppose.

ZOS_AlanG

It looks like this discussion has run its course, so we are locking it.

It's fine to disagree with someone, but please remember to keep your posts civil and constructive. There's a lot of mud-slinging in this thread, which isn't acceptable on the forums.