DPS Tests and Trials Breeding Elitism

MrAppleman

These sound like crap players.
I wear the same gear on my dps in trials as testing or dungeons and vMA.

It is perfectly viable to pull great dps and not die in your dps gear.
How do you think people beat hard mode content, complete flawless and conquer speed runs?

Great bloodspawn time is awesome to have in group but those players also need raid awareness and maybe these guys don't have it yet since it does come with experience or they are just idiots.

However to think that you are better off using a setup that results in less dps because you want to be able to stand in red or do dumb stuff is only hurting the group.

Again there are teams that beat hard content with no or minimal deaths while also doing it very quickly. You want DD doing all the dps possible not pussyfooting around.

Joy_Division

For someone complaining how "elitist" DPS players are ruining the ESO community, you level an awful lot of blanket accusations toward people who regularly DPS in trial raids.

I have run trial raids in all three factions on PC - without being a member of any of their guilds - and I will adamantly refute your baseless pigeonholing. The mere fact that I am not a part of their "elitist" clique and that they invited me into their raids without asking my for my Bloodspawn DPS contradicts your accusations. This is all three factions on NA since the Winter of 2014. And wouldn't you know, some of them actually wore their DPS gear, stayed out of red circles, and offered me friendly advice

Doctordarkspawn

Joy_Division wrote: »

For someone complaining how "elitist" DPS players are ruining the ESO community, you level an awful lot of blanket accusations toward people who regularly DPS in trial raids.

I have run trial raids in all three factions on PC - without being a member of any of their guilds - and I will adamantly refute your baseless pigeonholing. The mere fact that I am not a part of their "elitist" clique and that they invited me into their raids without asking my for my Bloodspawn DPS contradicts your accusations. This is all three factions on NA since the Winter of 2014. And wouldn't you know, some of them actually wore their DPS gear, stayed out of red circles, and offered me friendly advice

And much like he cant speak for everyone, neither can yoooou.

zerosingularity

Bloodspawn dps tests are alright only when used for what they represent, theoretical max DPS output. Whenever performing this test, it is assumed that the gears and setup is identical to what would be in a 5 min trial boss fight with enough sustain to run it.

Again, BS tests are for pure THEORETICAL max dps. A certain amount of possible dps is needed, but situational awareness and knowledge of mechanics are more important.

A better test doesn't really exist. A battery of tests is better, testing the key factors: max sustained dps output, situational awareness, survivability, team coordination, and armor dye colors. Mechanics can always be learned and are not something to be tested in most cases.

All in all, sounds like OP had an experience with bad leadership, where they accepted faulty tests as gold standard.

WuffyCerulei

IMO, people's deeps will vary on mobs, crits, lag, and whatnot. Sure, you'll get get high DPS when mowing down 20 mobs, but maybe 5k for a big boss. If you're landing 30k dps on a boss with a magicka DK, it's probs cause you're doing a lot of damage over time, and I mean A LOT. That boss is probs weak against fire, while a boss that isn't will probably get less deeps. My stamina sorc does either instant or DOT deeps depending on mobs, and her deeps varies anywhere from 5k-30k. She also has decent survivability.
It's all fine and dandy if people like to land high deeps on stuff, but being a royal pain about it isn't going to make you a likeable person. Also getting costantly killed cuz you're too worried about your deeps rather than getting out of the red circle makes you unlikeable.

Asmael

So basically, you met mediocre players calling themselves good and made a thread about it.

But don't worry, players who are actually good don't need to buy gear for 750k+ and don't need to post bloodspawn parses.

I'd be curious to see you record some of those trials runs.

xblackroxe

DRXHarbinger wrote: »

All these dps *** are deluded anyway dude. They only have that for 40s and they are out of resources so doing nothing. That's why esp on console the super hard content is hard as all they want is stam DKs that can't pull 10k dps after 45s...but still bruh. ..did bloodspawn in 30s..means I r entitled.

Nice, somebody clearly has 0 knowledge about this thing called ressource management. Bc everybody runs out of ressources after 40 sec I guess all those dps Screenshots of 45-50k+ over 3+ min are clearly faked.

MotokoKusanagi34

Asmael wrote: »

So basically, you met mediocre players calling themselves good and made a thread about it.

But don't worry, players who are actually good don't need to buy gear for 750k+ and don't need to post bloodspawn parses.

I'd be curious to see you record some of those trials runs.

This.

These people exist and I've had such a guy in my trial team, earlier today. I do regularly SO runs with random folks (Hey PS4 EU AD, you know me) and one of them whined through the whole dungeon:

He "almost quit" during the first boss because our DPS "sucked", invited his friend and both of them regularly died. He'd complain about our tank when he ran in front of the attack of a boss, complain about our healer when he died - even though I have 200 CP less and died only once. I'm just as squishy as any other DPS NB out there but everyone can avoid the most basic deaths by actually playing good. He eventually called everyone a scrub and left after beating the final boss.
This isn't elitism but awful behavior.
Getting amazing numbers at the BS test doesn't mean anything if you're a bad player. You can wear the best set in the game but as long as you don't know how to utilize it, it's worthless. Team play is also an important and invisible skill. If someone thinks he's Akatosh then he's probably not suited for ESO multiplayer content.

Trials are a team effort. Whenever I pushed my team with simple sentences like "c'mon guys we'll make it now" we managed to play twice as good.

Ch4mpTW

Rohamad_Ali wrote: »

If PvE l33ts would spend more time clearing trash mobs and bosses then arguing in open mic dungeon theory night , people would get twice the runs in every day No one cares about your ultra deeps theories if you can't stay out of the red an faceroll in Blood spawn .

Save the conversation for after the run . After the loot is picked up feel free to say gg but next time blank would be better .

BRUH .... maek em stahp plz .

@Rohamad_Ali
Bruh, I don't know what's going on. But, I want them to stop too. I'll try, bruh.

MotokoKusanagi34 wrote: »

Asmael wrote: »

So basically, you met mediocre players calling themselves good and made a thread about it.

But don't worry, players who are actually good don't need to buy gear for 750k+ and don't need to post bloodspawn parses.

I'd be curious to see you record some of those trials runs.

This.

These people exist and I've had such a guy in my trial team, earlier today. I do regularly SO runs with random folks (Hey PS4 EU AD, you know me) and one of them whined through the whole dungeon:

He "almost quit" during the first boss because our DPS "sucked", invited his friend and both of them regularly died. He'd complain about our tank when he ran in front of the attack of a boss, complain about our healer when he died - even though I have 200 CP less and died only once. I'm just as squishy as any other DPS NB out there but everyone can avoid the most basic deaths by actually playing good. He eventually called everyone a scrub and left after beating the final boss.
This isn't elitism but awful behavior.
Getting amazing numbers at the BS test doesn't mean anything if you're a bad player. You can wear the best set in the game but as long as you don't know how to utilize it, it's worthless. Team play is also an important and invisible skill. If someone thinks he's Akatosh then he's probably not suited for ESO multiplayer content.

Trials are a team effort. Whenever I pushed my team with simple sentences like "c'mon guys we'll make it now" we managed to play twice as good.

Lmao. See. You know what I'm talking about. You've experienced it yourself, and know how common it is. People with supposedly high DPS, but are dead all the time. Thus meaning a DPS loss, because they're dead. And another DD has to spend time resurrecting, that could be spent applying DPS.

Wifeaggro13

Asmael wrote: »

So basically, you met mediocre players calling themselves good and made a thread about it.

But don't worry, players who are actually good don't need to buy gear for 750k+ and don't need to post bloodspawn parses.

I'd be curious to see you record some of those trials runs.

Well i dont think the whole thread boiled down to that , Admittedly i am not very good at DPS i primarily tank but the underlying issue with the content is its lacking some mechanics and on the whole requires far to many players to play DPS and not fullfill any utility CC , very little need for more then one tank and 1 maybe healer and a half for most trials.

For sure Dps is hard to do consistently and requires tons of mobility and situational awareness. The elitism comes from their nnot being many options. In most MMO's the Trash was the indicator of the group or raids skill to CC, Debuff heal and tank correctly. DPS was needed but they had to be aware when to burn , joust, Stop or slow. Utility needed to know the timing of when to buff and synergize. The issue is the mechanics here only leave room for limited playstyles.

phaseadept

I'm a patient healer, I keep people alive and add DOTS when available but focus on buffs, debuff, and healing. I'm not sure how killing blood spawn quickly helps keep people alive. . .

Avenias

Elitism is fine in a competitive game.

MotokoKusanagi34

Avenias wrote: »

Elitism is fine in a competitive game.

Have you seen the ESO MLG tourney last night?! It was crazy!

Avenias

MotokoKusanagi34 wrote: »

Avenias wrote: »

Elitism is fine in a competitive game.

Have you seen the ESO MLG tourney last night?! It was crazy!

No but we wiped the floor with Dead DCs and EPs yesterday in BWB. It was a teabag fest, and my balls are sore.

NoRagret

Elitism in PvE? LOL bring them to PvP and we'll send them back crying.

Kammakazi

Just get good.

SublimeSparo

Toast_STS wrote: »

What about a solo blood spawn test? Took me a couple tries and it took me about 2 minutes by myself. Can't really imagine doing that on anything but a stam sorc though.

http://xboxdvr.com/gamer/Toast STS/video/20960244

Done it on magblade, cant remember if i did it on magplar as well.
L2B/R learn to block/ roll

SienneYviete

WTF even is this thread, stop making excuses.

Saturn

For most content you can get by with a build that isn't min/max and capable of pulling super high dps, but most PvE guilds prepare their members for Maw of Lorkhaj on veteran, which has extremely high requirements for beating it. I have yet to see it being possible to beat this trial with a halfbaked team. So while you may beat vSO, vAA and vHRC without having the best group possible there is still a reason to strive for perfection with your build because you might need it if you ever enter the Maw for a serious attempt at beating it.

Often for people that pull super high dps they don't always think about survivability, or they expect a boss to never move and never think to have to move themselves either, or they believe that their tank and healer will make them invincible. Obviously there's a difference between getting high dps on a dps test which is clearly rigged in the dps' favour and getting high dps in a serious trial setting where you are constantly at risk of being killed. DPS is consider the most important part and then everything else like survivability and attention to mechanics is something you learn after.

High DPS isn't super important most places, but in a serious PvE setting it matters, and a lot of PvE'ers strive to become part of that crowd that does World Firsts and World #1, etc. It's all part of every MMO, and yes ESO is an MMO.

Exclusivity creates elitism. It's an unfortunate side-effect of having competitive content, but then again, without competitive content a lot of people wouldn't play the game.

Ch4mpTW

SienneYviete wrote: »

WTF even is this thread, stop making excuses.

...? Who is making excuses? I ended up getting my Shehai Shatterer after 1 wipe. Which was my third Shehai Shatterer character, as I had it previously for 2 others. Not to mention, I have cleared all content but vet Maw. And by all content, I mean it. With Vet Maw's completion only inches away from me. So... Who is making excuses, and what would they be making excuses about? I highly advise you read closer, because your post isn't making any sense.

Edit - I forgot to include this below:

Humatiel

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

SienneYviete wrote: »

WTF even is this thread, stop making excuses.

...? Who is making excuses? I ended up getting my Shehai Shatterer after 1 wipe. Which was my third Shehai Shatterer character, as I had it previously for 2 others. Not to mention, I have cleared all content but vet Maw. And by all content, I mean it. With Vet Maw's completion only inches away from me. So... Who is making excuses, and what would they be making excuses about? I highly advise you read closer, because your post isn't making any sense.

Edit - I forgot to include this below:

If your inches from a vmol completion then you should understand that dps tests (at some point in that players pve career) are what made that possible. You can bring a player to content but past a level of content he needs to decide he wants to tailor his build to it.

SienneYviete

Humatiel wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

SienneYviete wrote: »

WTF even is this thread, stop making excuses.

...? Who is making excuses? I ended up getting my Shehai Shatterer after 1 wipe. Which was my third Shehai Shatterer character, as I had it previously for 2 others. Not to mention, I have cleared all content but vet Maw. And by all content, I mean it. With Vet Maw's completion only inches away from me. So... Who is making excuses, and what would they be making excuses about? I highly advise you read closer, because your post isn't making any sense.

Edit - I forgot to include this below:

If your inches from a vmol completion then you should understand that dps tests (at some point in that players pve career) are what made that possible. You can bring a player to content but past a level of content he needs to decide he wants to tailor his build to it.

QFT

Ch4mpTW

Humatiel wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

SienneYviete wrote: »

WTF even is this thread, stop making excuses.

...? Who is making excuses? I ended up getting my Shehai Shatterer after 1 wipe. Which was my third Shehai Shatterer character, as I had it previously for 2 others. Not to mention, I have cleared all content but vet Maw. And by all content, I mean it. With Vet Maw's completion only inches away from me. So... Who is making excuses, and what would they be making excuses about? I highly advise you read closer, because your post isn't making any sense.

Edit - I forgot to include this below:

If your inches from a vmol completion then you should understand that dps tests (at some point in that players pve career) are what made that possible. You can bring a player to content but past a level of content he needs to decide he wants to tailor his build to it.

Even though I have been DPS tested, I hate it. And I hated it then. And honestly, I do not believe it was being tested that brought me to being only hairs away from VMOL completion. But rather: Understanding of game mechanics, understanding of my build and class, having strong situational awareness, putting trust in the group's tanks and healers, and last but certainly not least — being pushed hard by those around me to succeed. And those people not giving up on neither themselves or me. I think it was that which got me to that point. Not being able to kill a mini-boss quicker than most people, while someone healed me and tanked the boss for me. However, I understand your point nonetheless.

Avenias

NoRagret wrote: »

Elitism in PvE? LOL bring them to PvP and we'll send them back crying.

Tell them to roll an EP toon and send them to BWB na pc

KingYogi415

The bloodspawn test just weeds out people who who don't even stand a chance in vet trails.

Something to mention is the cost of weapon/spellpower pots. These can cost 100-200k per person for a new group learning the mechanics.

No one wants to waist their time or money with a player who has not put in the work to do vet. This is coming from a guild leader building a vet trails group from the ground up.

Cheers!

Bobby_V_Rockit

I only quit from groups if the healer is consistently the one to keep dying first... I think "how are we going to beat end boss if healer cant even keep itself alive during mini boss?"

Mojmir

Never did a test,don't really care either. Don't really care how high someone else's dps is either. Half the time the guy posting it constantly in chat dies a lot or gets the worst drops. That's karma.

Avenias

Mojmir wrote: »

Never did a test,don't really care either. Don't really care how high someone else's dps is either. Half the time the guy posting it constantly in chat dies a lot or gets the worst drops. That's karma.

U can just block them lol

Humatiel

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

Humatiel wrote: »

Ch4mpTW wrote: »

SienneYviete wrote: »

WTF even is this thread, stop making excuses.

...? Who is making excuses? I ended up getting my Shehai Shatterer after 1 wipe. Which was my third Shehai Shatterer character, as I had it previously for 2 others. Not to mention, I have cleared all content but vet Maw. And by all content, I mean it. With Vet Maw's completion only inches away from me. So... Who is making excuses, and what would they be making excuses about? I highly advise you read closer, because your post isn't making any sense.

Edit - I forgot to include this below:

If your inches from a vmol completion then you should understand that dps tests (at some point in that players pve career) are what made that possible. You can bring a player to content but past a level of content he needs to decide he wants to tailor his build to it.

Even though I have been DPS tested, I hate it. And I hated it then. And honestly, I do not believe it was being tested that brought me to being only hairs away from VMOL completion. But rather: Understanding of game mechanics, understanding of my build and class, having strong situational awareness, putting trust in the group's tanks and healers, and last but certainly not least — being pushed hard by those around me to succeed. And those people not giving up on neither themselves or me. I think it was that which got me to that point. Not being able to kill a mini-boss quicker than most people, while someone healed me and tanked the boss for me. However, I understand your point nonetheless.

• Understanding of game mechanics - can be seen immediately inside vet content
• understanding of my build and class - A dps test displays this.
• having strong situational awareness - can be seen immediately inside vet content
• putting trust in the group's tanks and healers - can be seen immediately inside vet content

so by your own words the first step should be a dps test then move into vet trials to get a good read of the player? Guilds just dont have the time (nor the inclination) to get a new player and say "in the next 120 days you should be at a point to run vet content but until then lets support you". A dps test will show player strength and your first couple trials will show player awareness/teamwork. There are a million numbers pve guilds that a player that isn't ready for vet content can join and grind away at while being half dead until he reaches a point he wants to be better.

edit: to be clear I am not attempting to start an argument, but the general ESO population is so far behind the necessary requirements to complete vet trials your looking at an almost insurmountable level of work to bring them to a minimum standard. That is the general point I am attempting to make by saying a DPS test will make or break a guilds choice of "training" that player.

Qbiken

TheDarkRuler wrote: »

I agree to many of those.

In some Trials, especially Sanctum Ophidia and Maw of Lorkhaj, there are constantly 531+ DD with insane DPS but sometimes only 17k life with buff food. Also they often don't even block a heavy charge attack or dodge out of a red zone.
And if they die (and they do alot) it is always the fault of the others.

17k health for a dd is actually decent, as long as you´re aware of your surroundings. 16k on the other hand starts to get a bit low.