So there's an addon that allows you to see other player's loot upon drop now...

deathbyk1te

Yeah this addon been's around for awhile. Honestly I've never gotten hounded for items. If someone asks for something and I need it, I tell them so and they've been understanding so far. If I'm running with people I don't know and I happen to be looking for items in that dungeon I'll let them know. If they get an item I want but they don't offer it up I usually won't ask them since they clearly either need it for themselves or for whatever reason don't want to trade it. If they offer it great if not then its not that big of a deal.

As for why I run this addon, at first I had this on because I got LUI and I never turned it off (same when I ran FTC). It just became part of my chat after so long. I'll see my friends get something cool and comment to them about how awesome it was they got an item they really wanted. Or if they got something I really wanted (back before BOP items were tradeable) I'd lament at how RNG seemed to give the stuff I needed to them and vise versa. It just became convenient to be able to see all of it without having to link stuff in chat anymore. Nothing's changed since we began trading BOP. We still comment on the terrible trait items we sometimes get. If I see something I want I'll ask (with my friends anyway) if I can have it.

Jeremy

deathbyk1te wrote: »

Yeah this addon been's around for awhile. Honestly I've never gotten hounded for items. .

That's irrelevant because the feature that allows players to trade personal loot with other group members is new.

That's why you weren't hounded for items before.

Frawr

I really do find that this game contains a particularly large group of precious little princesses.

The worst part is that ZOS might actually waste resources changing this sort of feature.

jesus... anything to complain about.

Jeremy

Frawr wrote: »

I really do find that this game contains a rather large group of crybabies.

jesus... anything to complain about.

You mean like the people crying for other people's loot and then sending them nasty tells when they don't comply with their wishes?

I agree.

Frawr

Jeremy wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

I really do find that this game contains a rather large group of crybabies.

jesus... anything to complain about.

You mean like the people crying for other people's loot and then sending them nasty tells when they don't comply with their wishes?

I agree.

damn you must play with some really awful players. that has never happened to me. ever. in pug or guild. US or EU?

Other people may use this and other addons for purposes other than giving you grief. For example, congratulating their guildies.

Transairion

I really do find that this game contains a rather large group of crybabies.

jesus... anything to complain about.

Then I'm glad you at least have not been hounded by other players for loot you haven't even checked in your inventory yet (this has already happened multiple times to me, bafflingly. Sometimes I get really desirable loot or something).

It shouldn't he hard to understand why it's undesirable. Certain "pushy people" ruining it for the rest of you. To be honest I don't see any reason why anyone should know information about another player's stats, loot or otherwise especially if they're just going to be nasty about it.

iam117

Please ban everyone who does not want me to install a publicly available addon on my private pc for use in a game I purchased for my own private enjoymemt, as it's an invasion of my privacy.

/closethread

It's pointless

Jade1986

Averya_Teira wrote: »

Transairion wrote: »

It shouldn't be private information .... Logically as people have said above, you can see the other character picking up a freeking chestplate out of a corpse...

The game has functioned fine for 2+ years without this being needed in the base game, and I've yet to encounter a game with personal loot (like ESO) where you can actually see what others players get... the whole point of personal loot is so that (unlike other games) you're not sitting around rolling numbers to divide up the loot.

What's the difference between knowing what loot someone gets, and outright being able to pull up their character sheet? Look at where they've put all their CP, Attributes etc? The addon that let you see other player's DPS (main function was your personal DPS, IIRC) was disowned by ZOS and had to be modified by the creator to remain usable.

If the information isn't publically viewable in the base game, you shouldn't be able to slap on an addon to see that stuff and it's really creepy that this is even a thing to begin with. Worry about your own character stats, loot, DPS whatever... don't snoop on other players.

Uhm..... The most popular MMO has personal loot viewable by everyone..... Hell the loot pops In your screen when someone gets something.... So, you don't seem VERY informed on the subject lol.

Speaking of WoW obviously.

WoW also has the largest population of elite smurf heads on the planet.

Jeremy

Frawr wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

I really do find that this game contains a rather large group of crybabies.

jesus... anything to complain about.

You mean like the people crying for other people's loot and then sending them nasty tells when they don't comply with their wishes?

I agree.

damn you must play with some really awful players. that has never happened to me. ever. in pug or guild. US or EU?

This feature to trade personal loot with other group members is brand new. Give it time, as you will probably experience it yourself soon enough depending on how often you pug. Obviously if you only run with friends the chances of this happening to you will be much lower.

I've already seen many examples of this taking place. And it's just getting started too - especially if this addon starts to catch on (as it probably will considering all of the publicity it's getting).

deathbyk1te

Jeremy wrote: »

deathbyk1te wrote: »

Yeah this addon been's around for awhile. Honestly I've never gotten hounded for items. .

That's irrelevant because the feature that allows players to trade personal loot with other group members is new.

That's why you weren't hounded for items before.

I still don't get hounded for items regardless of it being a thing now. When I run things with people I don't know in Trials or just pledges I tell them up front if I'm looking for something and they do they same for me. I'll sometimes loot stuff without looking and forget to mention I got something so if there is something someone needs and they see, they know I offered at the beginning to give the item, they ask and I make good on my word and trade it. So far communicating this type of thing at the beginning of dungeons and just being courteous with the people I run has worked for me.

Frawr

Jeremy wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

I really do find that this game contains a rather large group of crybabies.

jesus... anything to complain about.

You mean like the people crying for other people's loot and then sending them nasty tells when they don't comply with their wishes?

I agree.

damn you must play with some really awful players. that has never happened to me. ever. in pug or guild. US or EU?

This feature to trade personal loot with other group members is brand new. Give it time, as you will probably experience it yourself soon enough depending on how often you pug. Obviously if you only run with friends the chances of this happening to you will be much lower.

I've already seen many examples of this taking place. And it's just getting started too - especially if this addon starts to catch on (as it probably will considering all of the publicity it's getting).

To be fair yeah, I am not considering the whole trading thing. Yes understandable that some pugs might whine for gear. I don't really think that this is a good reason to remove an addon though. Better to just block the individual.

I've had the ability to see loot for prob 2 years now. Kindve forget that it isn't part of the normal UI. Same with health numbers on mobs.

Divinius

Yes, the addons have been around forever.

The problems caused by players who have the addons are new, due to BoP loot being tradeable now.

Randactyl

This was funny at first, but now that we're into the second thread in a day (and after the first one was locked) this is getting ridiculous.

As others have said, there is no unintentional API loophole to close here like there was in GroupDamage. Since the game has been available, EVENT_LOOT_RECEIVED has returned for all members in your current group (among other info) the name of the character that looted the item, the item link, and whether or not it was you who looted the item.

There's nothing new here, but the situation is coming to a head because trials are now easily farmed by PUGs and BoP gear is tradable.

The question that should be asked is should a helpful or interesting part of the API and/or info made available to every client be neutered for everyone just because a few people cannot swing a social situation in an MMO to their advantage?

As others have said, you can easily rectify situations of harassment yourself.

1. Politely say "No" or "Make me a gold offer I cannot refuse"
2. Ignore and/or report for harassment if they do not stop after you've refused their offer.

You can even be proactive about it if it really bugs you. Join a PUG group and say "If you can see my loot drops and want one of them, you better be prepared to pay an obscene amount of gold!"

The point is, we should not be crying to mommy and daddy because another kid wants to play with our ball. Just tell the kid "no, this is my ball."

Vangy

Now that group trading is available, zos should allow everyone to see what all group members looted as a base game feature. Then we can put this lame thread to sleep. Seriously...

I welcome the whispers... Hey bro, mind if I buy that piece of you? Why sure thing, I don't need it, I'll sell it for X gold! Or no man, I need it on my other toons etc. No ones going to go, no way you HAVE to sell it. Or some might even offer more gold.

Had a guy pm me for vicious ophidian gold ring. He offered 250k and I said no cos I need it for my other toons. He upped his offer to 400k and I was like woah sure buddy u can has it.

It's just loot... And 99% of the time it's trashy training or preposterous trait anyway.

clayandaudrey_ESO

@ZOS_JohanaB @ZOS_DaryaK @ZOS_GaryA

Someone please close this thread.

Duplicate threads are against the rules you keep saying so enforce it.

Divinius

Randactyl wrote: »

This was funny at first, but now that we're into the second thread in a day (and after the first one was locked) this is getting ridiculous.

As others have said, there is no unintentional API loophole to close here like there was in GroupDamage. Since the game has been available, EVENT_LOOT_RECEIVED has returned for all members in your current group (among other info) the name of the character that looted the item, the item link, and whether or not it was you who looted the item.

There's nothing new here, but the situation is coming to a head because trials are now easily farmed by PUGs and BoP gear is tradable.

The question that should be asked is should a helpful or interesting part of the API and/or info made available to every client be neutered for everyone just because a few people cannot swing a social situation in an MMO to their advantage?

As others have said, you can easily rectify situations of harassment yourself.

1. Politely say "No" or "Make me a gold offer I cannot refuse"
2. Ignore and/or report for harassment if they do not stop after you've refused their offer.

You can even be proactive about it if it really bugs you. Join a PUG group and say "If you can see my loot drops and want one of them, you better be prepared to pay an obscene amount of gold!"

The point is, we should not be crying to mommy and daddy because another kid wants to play with our ball. Just tell the kid "no, this is my ball."

The problem is not that I don't want my feelings hurt, or that I don't want to have to say "No" to the person begging for my drop, or anything like that. I can handle dealing with idiots, I do it every day.

The problem is when my limited playtime gets wasted because of entitled brats that think the world owes them. There was a perfect example of this in the other (now locked) thread:

Synfaer wrote: »

The other night I had a pug run of Mazzatun normal as tank and after killing one of the bosses, the sorc in the grp immediately opens a trade widow and demands I give him the Amberplasm hat I just received because he needs it and I dont. I said no and cancelled the trade and he offers me some information about what he would do with my mother and then he quit the grp.
Unfortunately we had to then abandon the dungeon as we could not get a replacement due to the grouping bugs.

Now that sorc was admittedly a toolbag, but if he hadn't been able to see the drops in the first place, he wouldn't have known that the poster got the item, and wouldn't have rage-quit the group, causing them to have to abandon the quest.

Fact is, there's no real reason to NEED to see other people's drops. Is it maybe slightly more convenient in some circumstances? Sure, I suppose. But you can link items in chat with one click, and if you get something you would be willing to share, you can just do that. You should be doing that anyway, since not everyone is using an addon that shows it.

Allowing everyone to see everything all the time is only going to fuel (admittedly infrequent, hopefully) instances like the one above, while preventing it doesn't hurt anyone. It should be disallowed -- i.e. ZOS should remove the ability for addons to access the info. There's absolutely no need to have everyone's loot sent to everyone else in the group.

Transairion

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_JohanaB @ZOS_DaryaK @ZOS_GaryA

Someone please close this thread.

Duplicate threads are against the rules you keep saying so enforce it.

This thread was posted the 19th, the now-closed thread was also posted the 19th. As far as I saw, the closed thread hadn't even been posted yet when I made mine so can hardly call this a duplicate (it just got buried).

The closed thread also wasn't even addressed, just locked because of flaming and abuse while leaving the actual issue unresolved.

It's just loot... And 99% of the time it's trashy training or preposterous trait anyway.

How often has anyone got whispered for a non-ideal trait? The only loot you get harassed for is "good loot". If someone wants to sell it, usually they link it or otherwise say so... you shouldn't have to work around other people's addons giving out your information so they can pester you on a whim.

The question that should be asked is should a helpful or interesting part of the API and/or info made available to every client be neutered for everyone just because a few people cannot swing a social situation in an MMO to their advantage?

Er, care to explain how the former was a "loophole" and this is not? The only helpful part of seeing other players loot is that YOU, personally, can then try and trade for stuff you desire. While providing a means for harassment and annoyance for others.

Lucky you if someone whispered you to grossly overpay for an item though. I'm lucky if someone who pesters me actually offers to pay ANYTHING. I must be far too nice of a person since I'm broke.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Transairion wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

@ZOS_JohanaB @ZOS_DaryaK @ZOS_GaryA

Someone please close this thread.

Duplicate threads are against the rules you keep saying so enforce it.

This thread was posted the 19th, the now-closed thread was also posted the 19th. As far as I saw, the closed thread hadn't even been posted yet when I made mine so can hardly call this a duplicate (it just got buried).

The closed thread also wasn't even addressed, just locked because of flaming and abuse while leaving the actual issue unresolved.

It's just loot... And 99% of the time it's trashy training or preposterous trait anyway.

How often has anyone got whispered for a non-ideal trait? The only loot you get harassed for is "good loot". If someone wants to sell it, usually they link it or otherwise say so... you shouldn't have to work around other people's addons giving out your information so they can pester you on a whim.

The question that should be asked is should a helpful or interesting part of the API and/or info made available to every client be neutered for everyone just because a few people cannot swing a social situation in an MMO to their advantage?

Er, care to explain how the former was a "loophole" and this is not? The only helpful part of seeing other players loot is that YOU, personally, can then try and trade for stuff you desire. While providing a means for harassment and annoyance for others.

Lucky you if someone whispered you to grossly overpay for an item though. I'm lucky if someone who pesters me actually offers to pay ANYTHING. I must be far too nice of a person since I'm broke.

To be fair, you cant call the issue unresolved. You may not like it. But it is working as intended. Now your issue with those rude people may not be resolved but i dont know if you opened a ticket or not. And zos usually wont tell you what they did anyway, so who knows.

But right now, with the addon there is nothing to resolve. It is working as intended.

fastolfv_ESO

this part of an addon existed at launch so get used to it. There has been a new addon made to just do this where you dont need the entire other addon but its not new in any way shape or form

Divinius

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

To be fair, you cant call the issue unresolved. You may not like it. But it is working as intended. Now your issue with those rude people may not be resolved but i dont know if you opened a ticket or not. And zos usually wont tell you what they did anyway, so who knows.

But right now, with the addon there is nothing to resolve. It is working as intended.

Working as intended or not, the addition of the tradable BoP items is now allowing this addon to cause issues that weren't there previously.

ZOS removed the ability of addons to see other players damage output because it was causing caustic situations in-game.

This is (now) no different. A fully intended feature of the addon API is now causing caustic situations, and should be removed.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Maybe a lot of you people need to go back to playing single player games where you are not bothered.

Daveheart

First of all, you don't even need an add-on to access the information, it's just far more convenient.

Yes, the add-on has been around since either release or the stress test betas. Dragon loot was the first with this functionality. When warlock rings were so rare and still desirable, they were going for 500k to 1m gold, this functionality was there. When v14 footman body pieces in good traits rarely dropped, this same functionality was there. It even worked during the wild days of bind on equip original aether gear where people were farming that stuff non stop.

There have been numerous rare drop BoE gear sets that have been at the very least viable and some times best in slot throughout points in this game all the while this functionality has been there. Why on earth would a few extra sets being tradeable make any difference?

If someone harasses you over this, report them and/or ignore them. Hell, if someone harasses you for anything, you should report them. If the ability to see other group members' loot isn't intended, then I'm sure we'll see an official response at some point. For now, if someone is being an ass about it, the person is the problem, not the add-on. But bringing it to the forum to complain as if it was the norm for people to DEMAND that you give them that gear you just got makes you no better than those who are jerks in the game.

Divinius

Removing the feature would prevent problems.

I've yet to see any explanation or viable need to keep the feature.

Ergo, it should be removed. It's that simple.

AlnilamE

Jeremy wrote: »

deathbyk1te wrote: »

Yeah this addon been's around for awhile. Honestly I've never gotten hounded for items. .

That's irrelevant because the feature that allows players to trade personal loot with other group members is new.

That's why you weren't hounded for items before.

It's only new for BoP loot. You could always trade BoE items that other players picked up in dungeons. And while the sets in vWGT and vICP were all BoP, the ones in the vet dungeons before were split somewhat 50/50.

Transairion wrote: »

But i would disagree about it being different. Ive seen player health lead to harassment as well. People being yelled at to eat food. Or respec. Or kicked because they died to much with 10k health or kicked because people felt they shouldnt have to carry them. People opening up a trade window and trying to force them to take food without permission.

Doesnt really sound much different. Sounds like the same sort of treatment some people say they are getting about loot.

A fair point, but can't you see HP just by being grouped? It's within the base game and I'm (relatively) sure you can enable friendly player HP bars and is all freely available under options.

I can't see what another player has looted without downloading a 3rd party addon, and anyone who has said addon can see what I've looted with no input from me. Kind of the equivalent of giving people X-ray specs and putting them in a room with unaware people who's clothes suddenly no longer hide their... privacy, but only to X-ray spec holders.

You can't really spin it in a positive way, and the fact YOU can get pestered because of SOMEONE ELSE'S addon is just stupid. Again, that is the whole reason the Group DPS addon went bye bye. How is this any different to that?

I don't think so. You can see their health bar and *maybe* set percentages, but you can't see that they have 14k health as opposed to 18k, for example, like some addons allow you to. I've reminded more than one person to make sure their food buff hadn't run out because of it. But I've not used the Vanilla UI for grouping in a while, so I don't know if that's changed.

Reorx_Holybeard

Divinius wrote: »

vyndral13preub18_ESO wrote: »

To be fair, you cant call the issue unresolved. You may not like it. But it is working as intended. Now your issue with those rude people may not be resolved but i dont know if you opened a ticket or not. And zos usually wont tell you what they did anyway, so who knows.

But right now, with the addon there is nothing to resolve. It is working as intended.

Working as intended or not, the addition of the tradable BoP items is now allowing this addon to cause issues that weren't there previously.

ZOS removed the ability of addons to see other players damage output because it was causing caustic situations in-game.

This is (now) no different. A fully intended feature of the addon API is now causing caustic situations, and should be removed.

What "issues"? If you have a problem with people asking to purchase Monster helms/loot from you I'd like to introduce you to one word:

No

As in someone asks "How much you want for that [loot]?" and you'd say:

• No, I'm no selling,
• No, I need it for an alt
• No, I plan on using it
• No, sorry
• No
• etc...

I believe the issue with the group damage add-on wasn't necessarily the (small) public outcry so much as it violated exactly what information they want shared through the API. There's *alot* of information passed through the API, perhaps more than you're aware of. For example, I can still see the damage you do even though I can't exactly who did it if multiple people are attacking at once.

Daveheart

Divinius wrote: »

Removing the feature would prevent problems.

I've yet to see any explanation or viable need to keep the feature.

Ergo, it should be removed. It's that simple.

So basically "I don't like this, waaaa take it away, and screw you if it makes the game less convenient" - got it.

Randactyl

Divinius wrote: »

Randactyl wrote: »

This was funny at first, but now that we're into the second thread in a day (and after the first one was locked) this is getting ridiculous.

As others have said, there is no unintentional API loophole to close here like there was in GroupDamage. Since the game has been available, EVENT_LOOT_RECEIVED has returned for all members in your current group (among other info) the name of the character that looted the item, the item link, and whether or not it was you who looted the item.

There's nothing new here, but the situation is coming to a head because trials are now easily farmed by PUGs and BoP gear is tradable.

The question that should be asked is should a helpful or interesting part of the API and/or info made available to every client be neutered for everyone just because a few people cannot swing a social situation in an MMO to their advantage?

As others have said, you can easily rectify situations of harassment yourself.

1. Politely say "No" or "Make me a gold offer I cannot refuse"
2. Ignore and/or report for harassment if they do not stop after you've refused their offer.

You can even be proactive about it if it really bugs you. Join a PUG group and say "If you can see my loot drops and want one of them, you better be prepared to pay an obscene amount of gold!"

The point is, we should not be crying to mommy and daddy because another kid wants to play with our ball. Just tell the kid "no, this is my ball."

The problem is not that I don't want my feelings hurt, or that I don't want to have to say "No" to the person begging for my drop, or anything like that. I can handle dealing with idiots, I do it every day.

The problem is when my limited playtime gets wasted because of entitled brats that think the world owes them. There was a perfect example of this in the other (now locked) thread:

Synfaer wrote: »

The other night I had a pug run of Mazzatun normal as tank and after killing one of the bosses, the sorc in the grp immediately opens a trade widow and demands I give him the Amberplasm hat I just received because he needs it and I dont. I said no and cancelled the trade and he offers me some information about what he would do with my mother and then he quit the grp.
Unfortunately we had to then abandon the dungeon as we could not get a replacement due to the grouping bugs.

Now that sorc was admittedly a toolbag, but if he hadn't been able to see the drops in the first place, he wouldn't have known that the poster got the item, and wouldn't have rage-quit the group, causing them to have to abandon the quest.

Fact is, there's no real reason to NEED to see other people's drops. Is it maybe slightly more convenient in some circumstances? Sure, I suppose. But you can link items in chat with one click, and if you get something you would be willing to share, you can just do that. You should be doing that anyway, since not everyone is using an addon that shows it.

Allowing everyone to see everything all the time is only going to fuel (admittedly infrequent, hopefully) instances like the one above, while preventing it doesn't hurt anyone. It should be disallowed -- i.e. ZOS should remove the ability for addons to access the info. There's absolutely no need to have everyone's loot sent to everyone else in the group.

Going off of your own "few clicks" philosophy, it takes at most two seconds (three clicks) to right click their name in chat and add them to you ignore or mute list. If your valuable play time is measured in seconds, idk what to tell you other than invest some of those seconds in finding a group of people to play with who aren't ***.

IMO, there existed grounds to report that sorc for griefing. And if you subscribe to other accounts made in forum posts, griefing is one of the number one ways to get slapped with a suspension.

Sure there's no inherent need, but there is also no need to take it away from good players who find it to be useful information.

The situations will only continue if a passive people allow the loot bullies to continue it. Ignore them so they cant harass you. Report the bad apples. Clean up the community. Don't cry out for blanket "solutions" which end up hurting other good people.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Divinius wrote: »

Removing the feature would prevent problems.

I've yet to see any explanation or viable need to keep the feature.

Ergo, it should be removed. It's that simple.

It wont really prevent problems. The same *** that drop group when you wont give them what they want will drop group when you wont respond when they ask what you got. They know it is tradeable so you not responding doesnt stop the ***.

With12 people in a raid it is far easier to shuffle around equipment to your friends with the addon then asking everyone to link or tell you things they think you might want.

And before you say that reason isnt good enough, remember you could just ignore the people bothering you about your loot. So it isnt like your reason is some giant call to action to stop a massive injustice.

Averya_Teira

Jeremy wrote: »

Frawr wrote: »

I really do find that this game contains a rather large group of crybabies.

jesus... anything to complain about.

You mean like the people crying for other people's loot and then sending them nasty tells when they don't comply with their wishes?

I agree.

There's an ignore feature if your feeling get hurt.

newtinmpls

I did snip some of this, so if you would like to read the whole (well thought out) post, see the original.

Daveheart wrote: »

If someone harasses you over this, report them and/or ignore them. Hell, if someone harasses you for anything, you should report them. If the ability to see other group members' loot isn't intended, then I'm sure we'll see an official response at some point. For now, if someone is being an ass about it, the person is the problem, not the add-on.

I think that previous to the recent being able to temporarily trade BoP loot, it wasn't as stressful of an issue. Imagine the RNG rage of someone who has farmed a particular dungeon hundreds of times (or so I have been told that this not only "has happened" but is not uncommon) when so-and-so who is on their first attempt gets THE shining perfect piece that has been the object of desire for SOO long.

Yes in a perfect world, s/he would have started the run with "I'm looking for X, if you get it, I'd pay Y for it" and if someone got it there would be a trade and all would benefit.

Unfortunately it's not a perfect world.

I think this would be hardest on those of us who are also sensitive (and many would say "too sensitive") to the follow-you-around-keep-ganking and the teabaging and rage and insult whispering that ... sometimes happens in Cyrodiil. There is a certain level of ... I guess I would compare it to trash-talking. If you are familiar with it, used to it, comfortable with it it's no big deal.

If you aren't/don't understand it, don't have that adrenaline and battle fueled mindset it's miserable and feels like harassment and ends up keeping a lot of people (for whom it wrecks the fun) out of Cyrodiil.

So I think that there is a certain level of intrusive/hostile whispering that is considered okay and business as usual by many hardcore and PvP people.

But on a "what does it feel like to play the game" level, now the very atmosphere that keeps some out of Cyrodiil is being facilitated in what is "supposed to be" a PvE area. That feels... icky to some.

Even if that's not how you personally experience the game, can you take a moment to understand the subjective experience that I am trying to discuss?