So there's an addon that allows you to see other player's loot upon drop now...

AlnilamE

Jeremy wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Frankly, addons like this enhance the social interactions of group PvE. Stop imagining worst-case nightmare scenarios. I'm not saying that people won't run into jerks, but if you do, it's not something that will happen every single day, and it's utterly asinine to suggest throwing out 99% of the good to avoid the 1% chance of a potential bad.

Well said!

I can't believe that you and others would actually believe this is only going to happen 1% of the time....

I admire your faith in humanity. Though as someone who has dealt with this humanity on a consistent basis (especially in an anonymous online setting) I can confidently tell you that you are dreaming.

I can believe it. Why? Because addons like this have been around for years..

Yes, but that is irrelevant because the feature that allows you to trade personal loot at the end of a dungeon is new. It's the combination of the addon and this new feature that causes the issues.

No. You could always trade loot. Not all dungeon sets were bound before this update. There was plenty of BoE stuff found in dungeons, some of which was quite popular.

You can just trade more of it now.

I'm not sure how you got into a group were saying "Sorry, I need it for an alt" is not enough reason for them to stop bugging you.

AlnilamE

Jeremy wrote: »

code65536 wrote: »

Jeremy wrote: »

If this is so important to the game they should make it a basic feature as I said.

And I would welcome it. But ZOS has priorities.

Take buff tracking, for example. Right now, it's possible only with addons. The game broadcasts all the relevant information, but the game's UI doesn't do anything with it--it's up to the addons to actually present the information to the player. Much like how loot sharing works.

But just because the game's UI doesn't present this information doesn't mean ZOS doesn't want you to see it. They just don't have the time and resources to implement the UI for a buff tracking system and are content to let addon authors do the work for them.

And frankly, I'd rather that ZOS first prioritize built-in buff tracking, better combat text (the current SCT is too bare-bones--you don't even know what ability caused that particular tick of damage), etc., instead of dealing with lower-priority items like loot information.

Buff tracking would be a nice addition. But that addition doesn't contribute to strife in the same way this loot addon does.

Sparing their players annoyances should be a priority for them. The developers should simply do away with the trading of personal loot and allow relevant classes to roll on loot at the end of the dungeon. That would solve this.

And until they get around to doing that - disable this addon.

"allow relevant classes to roll on loot"?? So I can't take my NB healer into a dungeon and get gear for my DPS Stamblade? Do you not have alts???

Osteos

Based on some of the snide, condescending and just plain rude comments in this thread I think @Jeremy has a valid point about the behavior this add on elicits.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

paleobonesb14_ESO wrote: »

Based on some of the snide, condescending and just plain rude comments in this thread I think @Jeremy has a valid point about the behavior this add on elicits.

As many have pointed out, it isnt the addons that make people jerks. People are jerks all by themselves. I know im pretty much an *** all the time.

Tia413

I just got to ask this question since I haven't seen anyone ask it yet.

What are you gonna do if Zos actually adds a feature like "seeing group loot" to the game at some point?

What then? Are you gonna come to the forums demanding Zos remove it because people are whispering you for something you got as a drop?

The Best choices are:
1) If they ask you right away for what you just picked up just respond with "Sorry, can you give me a second to look at it, then I will respond?".

2) If they don't give you a second to even look at it and continue to pester you, politely say " Dude you just lost any chance you may have had at getting it now" and throw them on Ignore.

3) If they do give you a second to look , then your options are to either tell them "You know I need that drop for my own character or alt, sorry" or "I don't need it, how much will you offer for it?".

4) and if they won't take NO for an answer, and they continue to bother you, then you issue a warning to them by saying " Look if you don't stop whispering me about this I will report you for Harassment and then place you on my Ignore List".

It's that easy, even for a person with a Social Anxiety Disorder, like myself

Tia413

[Quoted content removed]

But I have to agree with what some others have already pointed out. And that is Game Forums are always full of Toxic people.

I don't see that ever changing (although it would be nice if it did).

I can't even count how many times I have been torn apart by Toxic people on Game Forums just because I am Disabled and have a Social Anxiety Disorder.

On WoWs' Game Forums I even had someone tell me to "Go Kill Yourself".
But a Thread was eventually made about that ( not by me, either) and it finally lead Blizzard to do something about people saying that any longer.

But I do agree, it's not any Addons fault for how people use it. Because not everyone uses it to be Toxic with.

[Deleted User]

Hello everyone,

We've gone ahead and removed a few comments for getting a bit off topic and nonconstructive. For further discussion please be sure to remain civil with one another regardless of what side they stand on the matter, and constructive to the topic. Keep in mind that flaming and baiting is against the Forum Rules, as it only leads to the derailment of the thread.

Thank you for understanding.

Tia413

If this does cause Zos to make the addons remove this "See Group Loot" feature (which is a part I dont even use of it) and in effect it causes the owners of said addons to completely remove them I will be protesting because this will be Impeading on my Rights as a Disabled Person to play this game in a manner I can play it in.

Elaboration: by Impeading I mean this... This is what the addon I use offers me to help make the game playable.

Wykkyd Enhanced Chat is an addon originally programmed as a piece of Wykkyd's Framework. It provides small features to clean up and slightly enhance the chat window.

Features
Hide default chat background
Prevent chat text from fading
Force the chat window not to fade (also available via in-game setting)
Insert a new, more configurable chat background (including custom colors)
Enhance the Edit Box
Label font type, size, style
Edit box font type, size, style
Insert a new, more configurable edit box background (including custom colors)
Add LOOT announcements
Your loot
Party loot (rare or better)
Your gold
Also makes the chat window able to be resized to the size of your entire screen

See those I have made Bold? Those are all parts of it that I use to help with my Gaming Experience on ESO. They are QoL benefits for me.

It's bad enough that Zenimax never even thought about people with Disabilities when they made this game. There's not even any thing in the game to help those who are Color Blind in the game.

This game already Discriminates against those of us with Disabilities.
Please Don't do the same.

LadyNalcarya

@Tia413 wrote: »

If this does cause Zos to make the addons remove this "See Group Loot" feature (which is a part I dont even use of it) and in effect it causes the owners of said addons to completely remove them I will be protesting because this will be Impeading on my Rights as a Disabled Person to play this game in a manner I can play it in.

Elaboration: by Impeading I mean this... This is what the addon I use offers me to help make the game playable.

Wykkyd Enhanced Chat is an addon originally programmed as a piece of Wykkyd's Framework. It provides small features to clean up and slightly enhance the chat window.

Features
Hide default chat background
Prevent chat text from fading
Force the chat window not to fade (also available via in-game setting)
Insert a new, more configurable chat background (including custom colors)
Enhance the Edit Box
Label font type, size, style
Edit box font type, size, style
Insert a new, more configurable edit box background (including custom colors)
Add LOOT announcements
Your loot
Party loot (rare or better)
Your gold
Also makes the chat window able to be resized to the size of your entire screen

See those I have made Bold? Those are all parts of it that I use to help with my Gaming Experience on ESO. They are QoL benefits for me.

It's bad enough that Zenimax never even thought about people with Disabilities when they made this game. There's not even any thing in the game to help those who are Color Blind in the game.

This game already Discriminates against those of us with Disabilities.
Please Don't do the same.

Those are very nice suggestions.
Umm, maybe you could make a thread about it? ^^ Its an important topic.
And its not only about UI, would be nice to have alternative "red circle" colors and some other quality of life stuff...

Divinius

Tia413 wrote: »

If this does cause Zos to make the addons remove this "See Group Loot" feature (which is a part I dont even use of it) and in effect it causes the owners of said addons to completely remove them I will be protesting because this will be Impeading on my Rights as a Disabled Person to play this game in a manner I can play it in.

Elaboration: by Impeading I mean this... This is what the addon I use offers me to help make the game playable.

Wykkyd Enhanced Chat is an addon originally programmed as a piece of Wykkyd's Framework. It provides small features to clean up and slightly enhance the chat window.

Features
Hide default chat background
Prevent chat text from fading
Force the chat window not to fade (also available via in-game setting)
Insert a new, more configurable chat background (including custom colors)
Enhance the Edit Box
Label font type, size, style
Edit box font type, size, style
Insert a new, more configurable edit box background (including custom colors)
Add LOOT announcements
Your loot
Party loot (rare or better)
Your gold
Also makes the chat window able to be resized to the size of your entire screen

See those I have made Bold? Those are all parts of it that I use to help with my Gaming Experience on ESO. They are QoL benefits for me.

It's bad enough that Zenimax never even thought about people with Disabilities when they made this game. There's not even any thing in the game to help those who are Color Blind in the game.

This game already Discriminates against those of us with Disabilities.
Please Don't do the same.

You seriously need to just stop. Your "Rights as a Disabled Person" are not being violated in the slightest, so you can stop playing that card right now. It's just making you look foolish.

No one is asking for the removal of the addon you use. I dont know about the exact version history of Wykkyd's addon, but another loot logging addon, called LootDrop, has been around forever, and only very recently added the feature to show other people's loot. If ZOS disabled that functionality, no addon creator in the world is going to go "well, this one tiny piece of my addon has been disabled, so I may as well just scrap the whole damn thing!" That's completely ludicrous.

You'll still be able to use your addon, you'll still be able to see all of your own loot the same way you do now, and you'll still have access to all the same info you have had all along. The only difference would be that you won't get to automatically see what other people are looting, unless they choose to tell you.

I've read every vehement, anger-filled, over-the-top post in this thread, and there's not been one single argument for keeping the ability to spy on other's people loot without their permission that hasn't been completely ridiculous.

If people want you to know what they got, they'll offer it. If not, I don't see why anyone feels the have the right to know it, and why the game should tell you without the looter's permission.

iRogue32

Divinius wrote: »

Tia413 wrote: »

If this does cause Zos to make the addons remove this "See Group Loot" feature (which is a part I dont even use of it) and in effect it causes the owners of said addons to completely remove them I will be protesting because this will be Impeading on my Rights as a Disabled Person to play this game in a manner I can play it in.

Elaboration: by Impeading I mean this... This is what the addon I use offers me to help make the game playable.

Wykkyd Enhanced Chat is an addon originally programmed as a piece of Wykkyd's Framework. It provides small features to clean up and slightly enhance the chat window.

Features
Hide default chat background
Prevent chat text from fading
Force the chat window not to fade (also available via in-game setting)
Insert a new, more configurable chat background (including custom colors)
Enhance the Edit Box
Label font type, size, style
Edit box font type, size, style
Insert a new, more configurable edit box background (including custom colors)
Add LOOT announcements
Your loot
Party loot (rare or better)
Your gold
Also makes the chat window able to be resized to the size of your entire screen

See those I have made Bold? Those are all parts of it that I use to help with my Gaming Experience on ESO. They are QoL benefits for me.

It's bad enough that Zenimax never even thought about people with Disabilities when they made this game. There's not even any thing in the game to help those who are Color Blind in the game.

This game already Discriminates against those of us with Disabilities.
Please Don't do the same.

You seriously need to just stop. Your "Rights as a Disabled Person" are not being violated in the slightest, so you can stop playing that card right now. It's just making you look foolish.

No one is asking for the removal of the addon you use. I dont know about the exact version history of Wykkyd's addon, but another loot logging addon, called LootDrop, has been around forever, and only very recently added the feature to show other people's loot. If ZOS disabled that functionality, no addon creator in the world is going to go "well, this one tiny piece of my addon has been disabled, so I may as well just scrap the whole damn thing!" That's completely ludicrous.

You'll still be able to use your addon, you'll still be able to see all of your own loot the same way you do now, and you'll still have access to all the same info you have had all along. The only difference would be that you won't get to automatically see what other people are looting, unless they choose to tell you.

I've read every vehement, anger-filled, over-the-top post in this thread, and there's not been one single argument for keeping the ability to spy on other's people loot without their permission that hasn't been completely ridiculous.

If people want you to know what they got, they'll offer it. If not, I don't see why anyone feels the have the right to know it, and why the game should tell you without the looter's permission.

It's not spying on people's loot. It is displaying data that the server sends the client. This is intended so can we stop acting like this is an invasion of privacy. You do not own any game data, it all belongs to ZOS.

LadyNalcarya

@Divinius wrote: »

and only very recently added the feature to show other people's loot.

Addons with this functionality have been around for a while.

Divinius wrote: »

I've read every vehement, anger-filled, over-the-top post in this thread, and there's not been one single argument for keeping the ability to spy on other's people loot without their permission that hasn't been completely ridiculous.

Stop being rude, pls.
As for arguments, Ive already posted mine 2 (?) times. This is not everything I can think of (simply too lazy to type ), its just my own reason.
I have full inventory of sets for different specs, and different support options, as well as some sets I want to test.
Since I need to keep an eye on many things, I dont always notice if I looted divine boots or something. I'm usually happy to share, but often I'm just missing items in a pile of other stuff. And several times Ive been asked for such items, that wouldve been deconstructed otherwise. Is that a bad thing in your opinion?

Divinius wrote: »

If people want you to know what they got, they'll offer it. If not, I don't see why anyone feels the have the right to know it, and why the game should tell you without the looter's permission.

See above.

Divinius

iRogue32 wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Tia413 wrote: »

If this does cause Zos to make the addons remove this "See Group Loot" feature (which is a part I dont even use of it) and in effect it causes the owners of said addons to completely remove them I will be protesting because this will be Impeading on my Rights as a Disabled Person to play this game in a manner I can play it in.

Elaboration: by Impeading I mean this... This is what the addon I use offers me to help make the game playable.

Wykkyd Enhanced Chat is an addon originally programmed as a piece of Wykkyd's Framework. It provides small features to clean up and slightly enhance the chat window.

Features
Hide default chat background
Prevent chat text from fading
Force the chat window not to fade (also available via in-game setting)
Insert a new, more configurable chat background (including custom colors)
Enhance the Edit Box
Label font type, size, style
Edit box font type, size, style
Insert a new, more configurable edit box background (including custom colors)
Add LOOT announcements
Your loot
Party loot (rare or better)
Your gold
Also makes the chat window able to be resized to the size of your entire screen

See those I have made Bold? Those are all parts of it that I use to help with my Gaming Experience on ESO. They are QoL benefits for me.

It's bad enough that Zenimax never even thought about people with Disabilities when they made this game. There's not even any thing in the game to help those who are Color Blind in the game.

This game already Discriminates against those of us with Disabilities.
Please Don't do the same.

You seriously need to just stop. Your "Rights as a Disabled Person" are not being violated in the slightest, so you can stop playing that card right now. It's just making you look foolish.

No one is asking for the removal of the addon you use. I dont know about the exact version history of Wykkyd's addon, but another loot logging addon, called LootDrop, has been around forever, and only very recently added the feature to show other people's loot. If ZOS disabled that functionality, no addon creator in the world is going to go "well, this one tiny piece of my addon has been disabled, so I may as well just scrap the whole damn thing!" That's completely ludicrous.

You'll still be able to use your addon, you'll still be able to see all of your own loot the same way you do now, and you'll still have access to all the same info you have had all along. The only difference would be that you won't get to automatically see what other people are looting, unless they choose to tell you.

I've read every vehement, anger-filled, over-the-top post in this thread, and there's not been one single argument for keeping the ability to spy on other's people loot without their permission that hasn't been completely ridiculous.

If people want you to know what they got, they'll offer it. If not, I don't see why anyone feels the have the right to know it, and why the game should tell you without the looter's permission.

It's not spying on people's loot. It is displaying data that the server sends the client. This is intended so can we stop acting like this is an invasion of privacy. You do not own any game data, it all belongs to ZOS.

It's spying whether it's intended or not. ZOS owns the data, ZOS sends the data, but ZOS doesn't display the data. Addons display the data. I'm not arguing that it isn't intended, or that it isn't ok for addons to use the data they are getting. I'm arguing that, ZOS should change the API so that data is no longer sent. I'm arguing that ZOS should change the intended behavior, because the info is not necessary to send, and shouldn't have ever been sent.

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Divinius wrote: »

iRogue32 wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Tia413 wrote: »

If this does cause Zos to make the addons remove this "See Group Loot" feature (which is a part I dont even use of it) and in effect it causes the owners of said addons to completely remove them I will be protesting because this will be Impeading on my Rights as a Disabled Person to play this game in a manner I can play it in.

Elaboration: by Impeading I mean this... This is what the addon I use offers me to help make the game playable.

Wykkyd Enhanced Chat is an addon originally programmed as a piece of Wykkyd's Framework. It provides small features to clean up and slightly enhance the chat window.

Features
Hide default chat background
Prevent chat text from fading
Force the chat window not to fade (also available via in-game setting)
Insert a new, more configurable chat background (including custom colors)
Enhance the Edit Box
Label font type, size, style
Edit box font type, size, style
Insert a new, more configurable edit box background (including custom colors)
Add LOOT announcements
Your loot
Party loot (rare or better)
Your gold
Also makes the chat window able to be resized to the size of your entire screen

See those I have made Bold? Those are all parts of it that I use to help with my Gaming Experience on ESO. They are QoL benefits for me.

It's bad enough that Zenimax never even thought about people with Disabilities when they made this game. There's not even any thing in the game to help those who are Color Blind in the game.

This game already Discriminates against those of us with Disabilities.
Please Don't do the same.

You seriously need to just stop. Your "Rights as a Disabled Person" are not being violated in the slightest, so you can stop playing that card right now. It's just making you look foolish.

No one is asking for the removal of the addon you use. I dont know about the exact version history of Wykkyd's addon, but another loot logging addon, called LootDrop, has been around forever, and only very recently added the feature to show other people's loot. If ZOS disabled that functionality, no addon creator in the world is going to go "well, this one tiny piece of my addon has been disabled, so I may as well just scrap the whole damn thing!" That's completely ludicrous.

You'll still be able to use your addon, you'll still be able to see all of your own loot the same way you do now, and you'll still have access to all the same info you have had all along. The only difference would be that you won't get to automatically see what other people are looting, unless they choose to tell you.

I've read every vehement, anger-filled, over-the-top post in this thread, and there's not been one single argument for keeping the ability to spy on other's people loot without their permission that hasn't been completely ridiculous.

If people want you to know what they got, they'll offer it. If not, I don't see why anyone feels the have the right to know it, and why the game should tell you without the looter's permission.

It's not spying on people's loot. It is displaying data that the server sends the client. This is intended so can we stop acting like this is an invasion of privacy. You do not own any game data, it all belongs to ZOS.

It's spying whether it's intended or not. ZOS owns the data, ZOS sends the data, but ZOS doesn't display the data. Addons display the data. I'm not arguing that it isn't intended, or that it isn't ok for addons to use the data they are getting. I'm arguing that, ZOS should change the API so that data is no longer sent. I'm arguing that ZOS should change the intended behavior, because the info is not necessary to send, and shouldn't have ever been sent.

Agreed addons should also stop showing peoples buffs and their hps. It is private and im a special snowflake.

iRogue32

Divinius wrote: »

iRogue32 wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Tia413 wrote: »

If this does cause Zos to make the addons remove this "See Group Loot" feature (which is a part I dont even use of it) and in effect it causes the owners of said addons to completely remove them I will be protesting because this will be Impeading on my Rights as a Disabled Person to play this game in a manner I can play it in.

Elaboration: by Impeading I mean this... This is what the addon I use offers me to help make the game playable.

Wykkyd Enhanced Chat is an addon originally programmed as a piece of Wykkyd's Framework. It provides small features to clean up and slightly enhance the chat window.

Features
Hide default chat background
Prevent chat text from fading
Force the chat window not to fade (also available via in-game setting)
Insert a new, more configurable chat background (including custom colors)
Enhance the Edit Box
Label font type, size, style
Edit box font type, size, style
Insert a new, more configurable edit box background (including custom colors)
Add LOOT announcements
Your loot
Party loot (rare or better)
Your gold
Also makes the chat window able to be resized to the size of your entire screen

See those I have made Bold? Those are all parts of it that I use to help with my Gaming Experience on ESO. They are QoL benefits for me.

It's bad enough that Zenimax never even thought about people with Disabilities when they made this game. There's not even any thing in the game to help those who are Color Blind in the game.

This game already Discriminates against those of us with Disabilities.
Please Don't do the same.

You seriously need to just stop. Your "Rights as a Disabled Person" are not being violated in the slightest, so you can stop playing that card right now. It's just making you look foolish.

No one is asking for the removal of the addon you use. I dont know about the exact version history of Wykkyd's addon, but another loot logging addon, called LootDrop, has been around forever, and only very recently added the feature to show other people's loot. If ZOS disabled that functionality, no addon creator in the world is going to go "well, this one tiny piece of my addon has been disabled, so I may as well just scrap the whole damn thing!" That's completely ludicrous.

You'll still be able to use your addon, you'll still be able to see all of your own loot the same way you do now, and you'll still have access to all the same info you have had all along. The only difference would be that you won't get to automatically see what other people are looting, unless they choose to tell you.

I've read every vehement, anger-filled, over-the-top post in this thread, and there's not been one single argument for keeping the ability to spy on other's people loot without their permission that hasn't been completely ridiculous.

If people want you to know what they got, they'll offer it. If not, I don't see why anyone feels the have the right to know it, and why the game should tell you without the looter's permission.

It's not spying on people's loot. It is displaying data that the server sends the client. This is intended so can we stop acting like this is an invasion of privacy. You do not own any game data, it all belongs to ZOS.

It's spying whether it's intended or not. ZOS owns the data, ZOS sends the data, but ZOS doesn't display the data. Addons display the data. I'm not arguing that it isn't intended, or that it isn't ok for addons to use the data they are getting. I'm arguing that, ZOS should change the API so that data is no longer sent. I'm arguing that ZOS should change the intended behavior, because the info is not necessary to send, and shouldn't have ever been sent.

Saying that they should get rid of it because you think it is spying (which it isn't). Is not an argument. Addons that use this API to display group loot do a lot more good than harm.

Divinius

iRogue32 wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

iRogue32 wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Tia413 wrote: »

If this does cause Zos to make the addons remove this "See Group Loot" feature (which is a part I dont even use of it) and in effect it causes the owners of said addons to completely remove them I will be protesting because this will be Impeading on my Rights as a Disabled Person to play this game in a manner I can play it in.

Elaboration: by Impeading I mean this... This is what the addon I use offers me to help make the game playable.

Wykkyd Enhanced Chat is an addon originally programmed as a piece of Wykkyd's Framework. It provides small features to clean up and slightly enhance the chat window.

Features
Hide default chat background
Prevent chat text from fading
Force the chat window not to fade (also available via in-game setting)
Insert a new, more configurable chat background (including custom colors)
Enhance the Edit Box
Label font type, size, style
Edit box font type, size, style
Insert a new, more configurable edit box background (including custom colors)
Add LOOT announcements
Your loot
Party loot (rare or better)
Your gold
Also makes the chat window able to be resized to the size of your entire screen

See those I have made Bold? Those are all parts of it that I use to help with my Gaming Experience on ESO. They are QoL benefits for me.

It's bad enough that Zenimax never even thought about people with Disabilities when they made this game. There's not even any thing in the game to help those who are Color Blind in the game.

This game already Discriminates against those of us with Disabilities.
Please Don't do the same.

You seriously need to just stop. Your "Rights as a Disabled Person" are not being violated in the slightest, so you can stop playing that card right now. It's just making you look foolish.

No one is asking for the removal of the addon you use. I dont know about the exact version history of Wykkyd's addon, but another loot logging addon, called LootDrop, has been around forever, and only very recently added the feature to show other people's loot. If ZOS disabled that functionality, no addon creator in the world is going to go "well, this one tiny piece of my addon has been disabled, so I may as well just scrap the whole damn thing!" That's completely ludicrous.

You'll still be able to use your addon, you'll still be able to see all of your own loot the same way you do now, and you'll still have access to all the same info you have had all along. The only difference would be that you won't get to automatically see what other people are looting, unless they choose to tell you.

I've read every vehement, anger-filled, over-the-top post in this thread, and there's not been one single argument for keeping the ability to spy on other's people loot without their permission that hasn't been completely ridiculous.

If people want you to know what they got, they'll offer it. If not, I don't see why anyone feels the have the right to know it, and why the game should tell you without the looter's permission.

It's not spying on people's loot. It is displaying data that the server sends the client. This is intended so can we stop acting like this is an invasion of privacy. You do not own any game data, it all belongs to ZOS.

It's spying whether it's intended or not. ZOS owns the data, ZOS sends the data, but ZOS doesn't display the data. Addons display the data. I'm not arguing that it isn't intended, or that it isn't ok for addons to use the data they are getting. I'm arguing that, ZOS should change the API so that data is no longer sent. I'm arguing that ZOS should change the intended behavior, because the info is not necessary to send, and shouldn't have ever been sent.

Saying that they should get rid of it because you think it is spying (which it isn't). Is not an argument. Addons that use this API to display group loot do a lot more good than harm.

Bolded part is your opinion. My opinion is that they do a lot more harm than good.

iRogue32

Divinius wrote: »

iRogue32 wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

iRogue32 wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Tia413 wrote: »

If this does cause Zos to make the addons remove this "See Group Loot" feature (which is a part I dont even use of it) and in effect it causes the owners of said addons to completely remove them I will be protesting because this will be Impeading on my Rights as a Disabled Person to play this game in a manner I can play it in.

Elaboration: by Impeading I mean this... This is what the addon I use offers me to help make the game playable.

Wykkyd Enhanced Chat is an addon originally programmed as a piece of Wykkyd's Framework. It provides small features to clean up and slightly enhance the chat window.

Features
Hide default chat background
Prevent chat text from fading
Force the chat window not to fade (also available via in-game setting)
Insert a new, more configurable chat background (including custom colors)
Enhance the Edit Box
Label font type, size, style
Edit box font type, size, style
Insert a new, more configurable edit box background (including custom colors)
Add LOOT announcements
Your loot
Party loot (rare or better)
Your gold
Also makes the chat window able to be resized to the size of your entire screen

See those I have made Bold? Those are all parts of it that I use to help with my Gaming Experience on ESO. They are QoL benefits for me.

It's bad enough that Zenimax never even thought about people with Disabilities when they made this game. There's not even any thing in the game to help those who are Color Blind in the game.

This game already Discriminates against those of us with Disabilities.
Please Don't do the same.

You seriously need to just stop. Your "Rights as a Disabled Person" are not being violated in the slightest, so you can stop playing that card right now. It's just making you look foolish.

No one is asking for the removal of the addon you use. I dont know about the exact version history of Wykkyd's addon, but another loot logging addon, called LootDrop, has been around forever, and only very recently added the feature to show other people's loot. If ZOS disabled that functionality, no addon creator in the world is going to go "well, this one tiny piece of my addon has been disabled, so I may as well just scrap the whole damn thing!" That's completely ludicrous.

You'll still be able to use your addon, you'll still be able to see all of your own loot the same way you do now, and you'll still have access to all the same info you have had all along. The only difference would be that you won't get to automatically see what other people are looting, unless they choose to tell you.

I've read every vehement, anger-filled, over-the-top post in this thread, and there's not been one single argument for keeping the ability to spy on other's people loot without their permission that hasn't been completely ridiculous.

If people want you to know what they got, they'll offer it. If not, I don't see why anyone feels the have the right to know it, and why the game should tell you without the looter's permission.

It's not spying on people's loot. It is displaying data that the server sends the client. This is intended so can we stop acting like this is an invasion of privacy. You do not own any game data, it all belongs to ZOS.

It's spying whether it's intended or not. ZOS owns the data, ZOS sends the data, but ZOS doesn't display the data. Addons display the data. I'm not arguing that it isn't intended, or that it isn't ok for addons to use the data they are getting. I'm arguing that, ZOS should change the API so that data is no longer sent. I'm arguing that ZOS should change the intended behavior, because the info is not necessary to send, and shouldn't have ever been sent.

Saying that they should get rid of it because you think it is spying (which it isn't). Is not an argument. Addons that use this API to display group loot do a lot more good than harm.

Bolded part is your opinion. My opinion is that they do a lot more harm than good.

Examples please? maybe some screenshots of whispers you have received because of this addon?

LadyNalcarya

Divinius wrote: »

iRogue32 wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

iRogue32 wrote: »

Divinius wrote: »

Tia413 wrote: »

If this does cause Zos to make the addons remove this "See Group Loot" feature (which is a part I dont even use of it) and in effect it causes the owners of said addons to completely remove them I will be protesting because this will be Impeading on my Rights as a Disabled Person to play this game in a manner I can play it in.

Elaboration: by Impeading I mean this... This is what the addon I use offers me to help make the game playable.

Wykkyd Enhanced Chat is an addon originally programmed as a piece of Wykkyd's Framework. It provides small features to clean up and slightly enhance the chat window.

Features
Hide default chat background
Prevent chat text from fading
Force the chat window not to fade (also available via in-game setting)
Insert a new, more configurable chat background (including custom colors)
Enhance the Edit Box
Label font type, size, style
Edit box font type, size, style
Insert a new, more configurable edit box background (including custom colors)
Add LOOT announcements
Your loot
Party loot (rare or better)
Your gold
Also makes the chat window able to be resized to the size of your entire screen

See those I have made Bold? Those are all parts of it that I use to help with my Gaming Experience on ESO. They are QoL benefits for me.

It's bad enough that Zenimax never even thought about people with Disabilities when they made this game. There's not even any thing in the game to help those who are Color Blind in the game.

This game already Discriminates against those of us with Disabilities.
Please Don't do the same.

You seriously need to just stop. Your "Rights as a Disabled Person" are not being violated in the slightest, so you can stop playing that card right now. It's just making you look foolish.

No one is asking for the removal of the addon you use. I dont know about the exact version history of Wykkyd's addon, but another loot logging addon, called LootDrop, has been around forever, and only very recently added the feature to show other people's loot. If ZOS disabled that functionality, no addon creator in the world is going to go "well, this one tiny piece of my addon has been disabled, so I may as well just scrap the whole damn thing!" That's completely ludicrous.

You'll still be able to use your addon, you'll still be able to see all of your own loot the same way you do now, and you'll still have access to all the same info you have had all along. The only difference would be that you won't get to automatically see what other people are looting, unless they choose to tell you.

I've read every vehement, anger-filled, over-the-top post in this thread, and there's not been one single argument for keeping the ability to spy on other's people loot without their permission that hasn't been completely ridiculous.

If people want you to know what they got, they'll offer it. If not, I don't see why anyone feels the have the right to know it, and why the game should tell you without the looter's permission.

It's not spying on people's loot. It is displaying data that the server sends the client. This is intended so can we stop acting like this is an invasion of privacy. You do not own any game data, it all belongs to ZOS.

It's spying whether it's intended or not. ZOS owns the data, ZOS sends the data, but ZOS doesn't display the data. Addons display the data. I'm not arguing that it isn't intended, or that it isn't ok for addons to use the data they are getting. I'm arguing that, ZOS should change the API so that data is no longer sent. I'm arguing that ZOS should change the intended behavior, because the info is not necessary to send, and shouldn't have ever been sent.

Saying that they should get rid of it because you think it is spying (which it isn't). Is not an argument. Addons that use this API to display group loot do a lot more good than harm.

Bolded part is your opinion. My opinion is that they do a lot more harm than good.

Examples of "harm", pls?
Actual examples, not "what if" and such.

Tia413

Divinius wrote: »

Tia413 wrote: »

Wykkyd Enhanced Chat is an addon originally programmed as a piece of Wykkyd's Framework. It provides small features to clean up and slightly enhance the chat window.

Features
Hide default chat background
Prevent chat text from fading
Force the chat window not to fade (also available via in-game setting)
Insert a new, more configurable chat background (including custom colors)
Enhance the Edit Box
Label font type, size, style
Edit box font type, size, style
Insert a new, more configurable edit box background (including custom colors)
Add LOOT announcements
Your loot
Party loot (rare or better)
Your gold
Also makes the chat window able to be resized to the size of your entire screen

No one is asking for the removal of the addon you use. I dont know about the exact version history of Wykkyd's addon, but another loot logging addon, called LootDrop, has been around forever, and only very recently added the feature to show other people's loot. If ZOS disabled that functionality, no addon creator in the world is going to go "well, this one tiny piece of my addon has been disabled, so I may as well just scrap the whole damn thing!" That's completely ludicrous.

You'll still be able to use your addon, you'll still be able to see all of your own loot the same way you do now, and you'll still have access to all the same info you have had all along. The only difference would be that you won't get to automatically see what other people are looting, unless they choose to tell you.

I've read every vehement, anger-filled, over-the-top post in this thread, and there's not been one single argument for keeping the ability to spy on other's people loot without their permission that hasn't been completely ridiculous.

If people want you to know what they got, they'll offer it. If not, I don't see why anyone feels the have the right to know it, and why the game should tell you without the looter's permission.

Obviously you overlooked what I have now made Bold that the addon I use has in it.

And Let me ask.. Are you the Creator or Maintainer of this addon? If not, then how can you sit there and put words in the mouth of the true Creator or Maintainer of this Addon?

If not then don't speak for them.

I however can speak for the Disabled because I am one and I have also read this thread https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/270312/does-this-game-not-have-a-colorblind-mode/p1.
Being Color Blind is considered a Disability also. And I am glad to see a member of the Zos Staff actually has posted in it ( In a good way I may add). That makes me smile

No reason to rip on me just because I have found ways to make this game easier for me to play Dude, chill out.

I am just getting tired of the Disabled being ripped at or made fun of or even excluded from being able to do what normal people can do.

I lost a son because of that same thing. He kept being shunned and at 18 never went to the Doctor anymore for the meds that would have kept him alive. He was Dead 11 months later.

This is how I keep his death from being in vain.
And how I keep living, I fight for what is right.

You nor anyone else will stop me , either.

Divinius

I said "more harm than good"...

There have been multiple examples of the harm posted already. I could go back and find them, but I don't feel like digging through an 11 page thread to pick them out. If you've read the thread, you've seen them. Countless more complaints about anecdotally bad experiences with it. That would be the harm. In my opinion, that level of harm is significant.

Opposing arguments are that the harm is "minimal" (accompanied by plenty of totally unnecessary and degrading comments about people's "sensitivity"). How minimal is obviously subjective, but let's compare that to the "good".

The "good" is that it automatically shows everyone's loot, which can be marginally useful in certain specific situations where people actually want to share their loot. But given that this same functionality can be very easily achieved by having people simply list the loot they are willing to trade in chat, the "good" of having it done automatically, in the few situations where it would be semi-useful, is very minimal. In my opinion.

Obvious, though arguably minimal, harm. Obvious, but arguably minimal, good. The balance is subjective.

My opinion is that the harm (or potential harm) outweighs the very minimal usefulness. Others opinions quite obviously differ, but I'm still surprised, and actually saddened, by the number of players that have no regard for the enjoyment of other players versus their apparent need for a very minor convenience in very limited circumstances.

{edited for typos}

vyndral13preub18_ESO

Divinius wrote: »

I said "more harm than good"...

There have been multiple examples of the harm posted already. I could go back and find them, but I don't feel like digging through an 11 page thread to pick them out. If you've read the thread, you've seen them. Countless more complaints about anecdotally bad experiences with it. That would be the harm. In my opinion, that level of harm is significant.

Opposing arguments are that the harm is "minimal" (accompanied by plenty of totally unnecessary and degrading comments about people's "sensitivity"). How minimal is obviously subjective, but let's compare that to the "good".

The "good" is that it automatically shows everyone's loot, which can be marginally useful in certain specific situations where people actually want to share their loot. But given that this same functionality can be very easily achieved by having people simply list the loot they are willing to trade in chat, the "good" of having it done automatically, in the few situations where it would be semi-useful, is very minimal. In my opinion.

Obvious, though arguably minimal, harm. Obvious, but arguably minimal, good. The balance is subjective.

My opinion is that the harm (or potential harm) outweighs the very minimal usefulness. Others opinions quite obviously differ, but I'm still surprised, and actually saddened, by the number of players that have no regard for the enjoyment of other players versus their apparent need for a very minor convenience in very limited circumstances.

{edited for typos}

Im actually surprised that anyone would be surprised by that. This is a game. People like different stuff. I might like open world pvp you might not. Obviously we would then disagree on any ideas about it. While you could paint this as oh you have no regard for my enjoyment, i would also paint it the same way.

It is not a black and white issue. Because everyone enjoys different things. And i think most people would agree they want things in the game they like. And they dont want them removed just because someone else doesnt like them.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Divinius wrote: »

I'm still surprised, and actually saddened, by the number of players that have no regard for the enjoyment of other players versus their apparent need for a very minor convenience in very limited circumstances.

I am surprised, and actually saddened, by the number of players who have no regard for the freedom of other players versus their apparent inability to deal with very minor inconveniences in very limited circumstances.

If there's one point I agree with you, it's that the good brought by group loot displaying addons is rather insignificant - so are their potential annoyances. All this is ridiculously much ado about nothing.

LadyNalcarya

Divinius wrote: »

I said "more harm than good"...

There have been multiple examples of the harm posted already. I could go back and find them, but I don't feel like digging through an 11 page thread to pick them out. If you've read the thread, you've seen them. Countless more complaints about anecdotally bad experiences with it. That would be the harm. In my opinion, that level of harm is significant.

Opposing arguments are that the harm is "minimal" (accompanied by plenty of totally unnecessary and degrading comments about people's "sensitivity"). How minimal is obviously subjective, but let's compare that to the "good".

The "good" is that it automatically shows everyone's loot, which can be marginally useful in certain specific situations where people actually want to share their loot. But given that this same functionality can be very easily achieved by having people simply list the loot they are willing to trade in chat, the "good" of having it done automatically, in the few situations where it would be semi-useful, is very minimal. In my opinion.

Obvious, though arguably minimal, harm. Obvious, but arguably minimal, good. The balance is subjective.

My opinion is that the harm (or potential harm) outweighs the very minimal usefulness. Others opinions quite obviously differ, but I'm still surprised, and actually saddened, by the number of players that have no regard for the enjoyment of other players versus their apparent need for a very minor convenience in very limited circumstances.

{edited for typos}

Since when whispers and questions are "harm"? You can be asked what loot youve got even on console,and theres nothing wrong with that, especially when this "harm" can be competely avoided by using offline mode: no whispers whatsoever. While lost opportunity to finish a set with perfect traits can take a while, knowing ZOS' rng system.
And rude people are not rude because of addons, its as silly as claming that people become serial killers because they played Doom.

iRogue32

Divinius wrote: »

I said "more harm than good"...

There have been multiple examples of the harm posted already. I could go back and find them, but I don't feel like digging through an 11 page thread to pick them out. If you've read the thread, you've seen them. Countless more complaints about anecdotally bad experiences with it. That would be the harm. In my opinion, that level of harm is significant.

Opposing arguments are that the harm is "minimal" (accompanied by plenty of totally unnecessary and degrading comments about people's "sensitivity"). How minimal is obviously subjective, but let's compare that to the "good".

The "good" is that it automatically shows everyone's loot, which can be marginally useful in certain specific situations where people actually want to share their loot. But given that this same functionality can be very easily achieved by having people simply list the loot they are willing to trade in chat, the "good" of having it done automatically, in the few situations where it would be semi-useful, is very minimal. In my opinion.

Obvious, though arguably minimal, harm. Obvious, but arguably minimal, good. The balance is subjective.

My opinion is that the harm (or potential harm) outweighs the very minimal usefulness. Others opinions quite obviously differ, but I'm still surprised, and actually saddened, by the number of players that have no regard for the enjoyment of other players versus their apparent need for a very minor convenience in very limited circumstances.

{edited for typos}

*sigh*

I'm done with this post. NO ONE has provided sufficient evidence that addons that allow players to see group loot have caused enough harm that they need to be removed from the game, and guess what? ZOS is not going to do anything about because they intentionally made it available through the API for the past 2 YEARS.

Tia413

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Those are very nice suggestions.
Umm, maybe you could make a thread about it? ^^ Its an important topic.
And its not only about UI, would be nice to have alternative "red circle" colors and some other quality of life stuff...

I would but it would probably get removed or locked.

dotlife

The loot is not yours it belongs to the party that you depend on. Stop this silly paranoia and grow half a spine.

Sophieous

I read the words, harassment, abuse and assault, all 'cause of a simple add on that has a feature which lets you see the nice loot you party gets. You should really try and seek attention somewhere else I think and you should be ashamed if such a nice add on gets broken 'cause of you.

I didn't know the average player of this game was 12.

Solinur

I want to comment a little on the Group Damage comparison. The API feature that allowed Group Damage was an unintended change that got introduced with a patch. It was noticed pretty soon and the Group Damage addon was made. A little while after that the discussion arose in the forums. ZOS discussed the pros and cons of this (unintended) change and decided that they would revert this change, effectively rendering that addon useless (They even gave a heads up to the developer, so he wouldn't waste his time polishing the addon).

Regarding the loot API: It has been there from the beginning. It is also important to understand that every information that is shared by the API had to be programmed by ZOS. The fact that loot information from other people reaches your client is a very strong indication that this is intended. All Information that is used by your client to process the game is not transported to the API but handled internally (in the actual game code which is a completely different thing than the API.) Also regarding the comparison to group damage: There is still combat information from your group that reaches your client, only some info has been stripped. This means it is intended to have some info, though not all.

I also believe that it is wrong to assume ZOS doesn't want you to have some info, just because it isn't present in the vanilla UI. New users would be overwhelmed by the large stream of information and options, so they try to keep it to a bare minimum while allowing and encouraging people to develop functionality they deem useful. I'm pretty sure this and the other thread got enough attention that ZOS will consider how to improve the situation for everyone.

In the meantime I want to state that I am very much in favor of keeping group loot visible. I have seen hundreds, if not more than a thousand of situations where it was helpful to speed up handling loot and sharing it and didn't experience a problem with it ever. Also reading trough the whole 12 pages I only saw 3, maybe 4 people referring to singular events which seems insignificant to the thousands of people who use one of the addons that displays the party loot. Also it shouldn't be underestimated how much convinience dictates what poeple bother to do or not. Without the addon loot sharing would be reduced quite a lot, since no one wants go trough the trouble of linking all items they got every couple of minutes (although an addon could reduce the neccessary effort to post all recent loot to two keystrokes).

code65536

One note here about intent...

The API used to look at loot information explicitly tells the addon two important things: the name of the character receiving the loot, and whether that character is you.

If ZOS didn't intend for addons to look at other people's loot, they wouldn't have to include any of that information and just have the addon assume that all drops belong to you. If the API was never intended to tell you about other people's loot, why on Earth would the API bother to tell you the name of the looter?

But as I mentioned, it goes further than telling you the name. There is a separate documented (well, all this is documented) piece of information that the API returns: whether the character in question is you. Why would someone have spent the time to add that explicit field to the API if the intent wasn't to support group loot?

This is what sets it far apart from Group Damage.

Group loot is a common feature that is found in many MMOs. It's a feature that makes sense: your group worked together to kill the boss, and even if the luck of the draw places a certain piece of loot in your hands, that loot is there because of the contributions of everyone else in the group. And, most importantly, this is a feature that is supported by ESO, even if it is not found in ESO's barren vanilla UI (the paucity of the vanilla UI is not a good indicator of intent--how many years did it take for the vanilla UI to finally gain the option to show much damage you did with a hit or to show the amount of health an enemy has?). This is a feature that has been supported since the launch of the game. And the very design of the API makes it clear that support for group loot was intended. There is no way the API was "accidentally" or "unintentionally" designed with two (not one, but two!) documented fields that return information that makes sense only in the context of group loot.

Now, if you want to argue that ZOS (and many other MMO makers) made a mistake with this intent, that's fine. But don't go arguing that this is an unintended feature, because that arguments float about as well as the Titanic.

Sinthrax

But yet people would be fine if it was all tradable so they could sit in town and spam chat with WTS messages. Its better to do small scale trading as a dungeon group. This addon serves a purpose that I dont have a problem with.