Keep the current auction house or make a new one?

xaan

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

xaan wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Gold is too easy to come by though, and also items sold are too cheap for the effort you'd normally have to put in by grinding it out yourself, so it doesn't really equal out to being an appropriate amount of effort, not even close.

Aren't the prices made by players? Supply and demand? I would argue that if the prices are too low then supply is too high ... but if supply is very high that would mean the item in question isn't so hard to come by after all. So perhaps the invested effort does equal out after all?

First of all I added a bit to that post you quoted, and secondly RNG and just doing daily dungeons means that people are constantly getting drops they don't care about, and with the most common drops the result is that they get sold for almost nothing because the market is flooded with them. Even the most common drops can be hard to get entirely by yourself though, because RNG will give you mostly things you don't care about, and you'll have to grind like crazy to compensate.

That's why trading greater than zero is essential, it mitigates RNG being a *** and helps you get a full set of things without grinding a ridiculous amount. But having it be too easy to find exactly what you want at a consistent price trivializes loot acquisition too much, and at that point there's no reason getting anything yourself because you can just grind easy things that give gold, sell it, and then buy anything you want. Obviously some things can't be traded, but most things can, enough that it would be disastrous for the game if everything were too easy.

That's usually where bind on pickup rules come in. It's not like the current system doesn't have the exact same problem. It just mitigates it a bit by making things a bit harder to find. But by no means resolves the issue. At least not enough for ZOS to completely forgo BOP rules on certain items.

And if we already have BOP rules, this problem is no longer a valid argument for keeping things hard to find.

Edit: oh, and lore/realism is imo not an in argument by itself as long as we still have crafting bags or food that never rots andsoonandsoforth... There has to be something more. There has to be a reason for why lore can be broken in THIS instance but not in THAT instance.

Lucius_Aelius

Keep the current system.

swirve wrote: »

How many members do the trade alliances have as potentially they will all vote to keep the cartel system going...

Lmfao, paranoid much? Some people, the world is not out to get you and this is not a conspiracy, it just so happens that the majority of people here don't agree with, grow up and deal with it instead of inventing *** excuses.

grom1024

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Complaining about the traders not having it for sale is like complaining about a grocery store not having some bizarre foreign fruit that most people have never heard of, it's just not something you can reasonably expect to find because no one besides you wants it. It sucks sure, but it's not the store's fault for not selling something pretty much no one would ever buy.

IRL I could go to Wall-mart and buy rare things. In this game, there is too much grocery stores, so nothing interesting is sold and could be bought. Only mats, mats, and set jewellery. Everything else has a little chance for successful transaction. Current grocery stores system is boring and time wasting.

Lucius_Aelius

Keep the current system.

xaan wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

xaan wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Gold is too easy to come by though, and also items sold are too cheap for the effort you'd normally have to put in by grinding it out yourself, so it doesn't really equal out to being an appropriate amount of effort, not even close.

Aren't the prices made by players? Supply and demand? I would argue that if the prices are too low then supply is too high ... but if supply is very high that would mean the item in question isn't so hard to come by after all. So perhaps the invested effort does equal out after all?

First of all I added a bit to that post you quoted, and secondly RNG and just doing daily dungeons means that people are constantly getting drops they don't care about, and with the most common drops the result is that they get sold for almost nothing because the market is flooded with them. Even the most common drops can be hard to get entirely by yourself though, because RNG will give you mostly things you don't care about, and you'll have to grind like crazy to compensate.

That's why trading greater than zero is essential, it mitigates RNG being a *** and helps you get a full set of things without grinding a ridiculous amount. But having it be too easy to find exactly what you want at a consistent price trivializes loot acquisition too much, and at that point there's no reason getting anything yourself because you can just grind easy things that give gold, sell it, and then buy anything you want. Obviously some things can't be traded, but most things can, enough that it would be disastrous for the game if everything were too easy.

That's usually where bind on pickup rules come in. It's not like the current system doesn't have the exact same problem. It just mitigates it a bit by making things a bit harder to find. But by no means resolves the issue. At least not enough for ZOS to completely forgo BOP rules on certain items.

And if we already have BOP rules, this problem is no longer a valid argument for keeping things hard to find.

Edit: oh, and lore/realism is imo not a valid argument as long as we still have crafting bags or food that never rots or never having to use the toilet....

That's a logical fallacy, having some things that violate lore and therefore immersion in no way excuses the addition of more such things, that is literally nonsense, absolutely and unequivocally.

And BoP being extended to more things is a horrible idea that invalidates having a trading system at all, so that's not a solution to anything. Having to solely rely on RNG to drop you things would make this game unplayable.

xaan

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

That's a local fallacy, having some things that violate lore and therefore immersion in no way excuses the additional of more such things, that is literally nonsense.

It justifies demanding a good reason for why lore shouldn't be broken in THIS instance when it can clearly be broken in OTHER instances.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

And BoP being extended to more things is a horrible idea that invalidates having a trading system at all, so that's not a solution to anything. Having to solely rely on RNG to drop you things would make this game unplayable.

As long as there is ANY kind of trading system, the devs will always be faced with the possibility that items that are supposed to be difficult to get might be aquired far too easily. So either they have to limit the availability of the items in question or they have to prevent players from trading at all.

Even Eve Online - completely centered around player crafting and trading as it is - can't do without limiting the availability of certain items. In this case in the form of blueprints of which only a very small amount is available.

tryia3b14a_ESO

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

Milvan wrote: »

tryia3b14a_ESO wrote: »

I spent two hours looking for a recipe for Gods-Blind-Me for my provisioning writ. (...) The feeling I had when I logged off was of disappointment and unfulfillment. I did not log on the next day.

Really dude? REALLY?

You are telling us that you log out disappointed and unfulfilled because you couln'd find one recipe? And didn't log in the next day because of this very same reason?

Are we even playing the same game? This is Elder Scrolls online forum right? Or I perharps I joined Hello Kitty Online by accident?

I think you might be misinterpreting. I want to spend my free time having fun. Pointless, frustrating, and cumbersome systems keep me from having fun. After logging off for the day, I realized I had 0 amount of fun that day, so I spent the next day's two hours of free time doing something that I could guarantee would be fun.

Perhaps I mentioned it that way because I also work in the industry and I understand that player retention is huge. You want players to leave with a feeling of satisfaction or wanting more so that they'll log in next time and not search for a different game to play. Leaving players with a feeling a disappointment or unfulfillment is pretty much what you want to try to avoid.

Edit: Eek! I have some serious double posting issues when I post from my phone sometimes.

Lucius_Aelius

Keep the current system.

grom1024 wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Complaining about the traders not having it for sale is like complaining about a grocery store not having some bizarre foreign fruit that most people have never heard of, it's just not something you can reasonably expect to find because no one besides you wants it. It sucks sure, but it's not the store's fault for not selling something pretty much no one would ever buy.

IRL I could go to Wall-mart and buy rare things. In this game, there is too much grocery stores, so nothing interesting is sold and could be bought. Only mats, mats, and set jewellery. Everything else has a little chance for successful transaction. Current grocery stores system is boring and time wasting.

Nothing you just said makes any sense. Walmart can sell countless items all under one roof, and anything that only sells rarely they keep fewer of so they can have more space for things that sell more. Ultimately though, Walmart and every other store in existence will ALWAYS only sell things that they think people will buy and provide them with a decent profit, that's Economics 101, look it up.

Players can only sell 30 items total in any one store, and considering all the things that can be sold for a good profit, that's really not much space at all. As such people only sell the things they think will sell for the most, and anything they don't think will sell for a lot is something most people don't bother trying to sell, not if they have anything else to list that can reap a higher profit.

Anything that is mostly worthless to most players is something that you shouldn't have to depend on Guild Traders to acquire, and all ZOS needs to do is add such things as to the inventory of an NPC, problem solved.

HatTrick39

Keep the current system.

tryia3b14a_ESO wrote: »

No, it would be like me complaining that a resturant doesn't sell flour because they only sell fancy pre-made meals and flour is cheap, common, and worthless. Only in this world there is no grocery store for me to buy cheap, common stuff. That's a problem.

I used the recipe as an example because I assumed it would be a sought after item since the provisioning writ required it, but there are tons of other things I've searched for and been unable to find. Especially non level 50 equipment.

Newsflash. Only masochists do provisioning writs and nobody actually uses the food and drink that come from green recipes because they only buff one stat. Given those 2 facts, why are you surprised you can't find a green recipe that nobody gives a damn about? Do you really think if there was an auction house you would be able to find that junk on it? (hint: You wouldn't)

Regarding sub-level 50 equipment not being sold, again, same thing. It's not sold because there is no demand for it. Nobody cares about their gear below level 50 because you can do almost all of the pre-level 50 content in the game in your damn soul shriven rags you start with just about.

Lucius_Aelius

Keep the current system.

xaan wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

That's a local fallacy, having some things that violate lore and therefore immersion in no way excuses the additional of more such things, that is literally nonsense.

It justifies demanding a good reason for why lore shouldn't be broken in THIS instance when it can clearly be broken in OTHER instances.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

And BoP being extended to more things is a horrible idea that invalidates having a trading system at all, so that's not a solution to anything. Having to solely rely on RNG to drop you things would make this game unplayable.

As long as there is ANY kind of trading system, the devs will always be faced with the possibility that items that are supposed to be difficult to get might be aquired far too easily. So either they have to limit the availability of the items in question or they have to prevent players from trading at all.

Even Eve Online - completely centered around player crafting and trading as it is - can't do without limiting the availability of certain items. In this case in the form of blueprints of which only a very small amount is available.

Because established lore should never be broken (expanded upon yes, but not rewritten) and immersion should be maintained wherever possible as a rule, if you can't understand that then I'm done trying to explain because it couldn't be more clear or simple.

As interesting as it is to hear a game have centralized selling that doesn't suck, this system is almost perfect for this game, and with a few minor tweaks it could be even better. You have made your arguments for why you think an AH could work and I'd be lying if I said I knew for certain that it couldn't, but it would absolutely violate Lore and destroy immersion just like so many other features in this game that were poorly designed, and pointing out other mistakes in no way excuses committing more, that's just common sense.

There are just too many reasons why this system is awesome and an AH would be horrible, I just don't see any good arguments against the system we have. Arguments for some minor improvements sure but that's it.

tryia3b14a_ESO

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

Bryanonymous wrote: »

tryia3b14a_ESO wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

no. the casuals hav the same ressources as all others, join a trading guild and be done

if you feel like you are too good to join a guild. dont play a MMO

Due to my current real life situation, I literally cannot meet the requirements that large trading guilds have. Like trading a certain amount of items per week or not being logged out for 7 consecutive days.

I sometimes go months without playing when things get really crazy, so I often come back to find that I've been removed from whatever guild I happened to join this time. That's life as a casual player.

Why are you doin writs then? Doesn't seem like an essential activity, especially if you're strapped for time. The entire economy shouldn't change just to cater to one individual who is strapped for time but obsessed with doing everything.

I don't know. It seemed like fun. Are writs bad? Crafting is my favorite and I'll be honest, I have a major soft spot for cooking in pretty much every game. But I think writs might be pointless, need to do a little more research to be sure.

Also, no individual's experience is unique.

zergbase_ESO

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

So when do we get auction houses?

Lucius_Aelius

Keep the current system.

tryia3b14a_ESO wrote: »

Bryanonymous wrote: »

tryia3b14a_ESO wrote: »

laksikus wrote: »

no. the casuals hav the same ressources as all others, join a trading guild and be done

if you feel like you are too good to join a guild. dont play a MMO

Due to my current real life situation, I literally cannot meet the requirements that large trading guilds have. Like trading a certain amount of items per week or not being logged out for 7 consecutive days.

I sometimes go months without playing when things get really crazy, so I often come back to find that I've been removed from whatever guild I happened to join this time. That's life as a casual player.

Why are you doin writs then? Doesn't seem like an essential activity, especially if you're strapped for time. The entire economy shouldn't change just to cater to one individual who is strapped for time but obsessed with doing everything.

I don't know. It seemed like fun. Are writs bad? Crafting is my favorite and I'll be honest, I have a major soft spot for cooking in pretty much every game. But I think writs might be pointless, need to do a little more research to be sure.

Also, no individual's experience is unique.

I do all the writs I can on a daily basis (on days I play, I don't always), and I'd definitely say they're worth it personally. Though the new change to max-level writs only requiring max-level materials is a horrible change because the game still drops way too much lower level gear even from max level content, and writs themselves also award lower level materials, instead of only giving max level gear and materials like it should. I'm on Xbox so I don't have that update yet, but until they fix it the equipment writs are going to be much less worthwhile than they are currently on Consoles.

ShadowNekrosys

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

Taxes in a game are lame. And we could also save lot of time with an AH.

xaan

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Because established lore should never be broken (expanded upon yes, but not rewritten) and immersion should be maintained wherever possible as a rule, if you can't understand that then I'm done trying to explain because it couldn't be more clear or simple.

As interesting as it is to hear a game have centralized selling that doesn't suck, this system is almost perfect for this game, and with a few minor tweaks it could be even better. You have made your arguments for why you think an AH could work and I'd be lying if I said I knew for certain that it couldn't, but it would absolutely violate Lore and destroy immersion just like so many other features in this game that were poorly designed, and pointing out other mistakes in no way excuses committing more, that's just common sense.

There are just too many reasons why this system is awesome and an AH would be horrible, I just don't see any good arguments against the system we have. Arguments for some minor improvements sure but that's it.

And yet the lore clearly has already been broken whenever the dev's felt doing so would improve the game. So "never" does not apply any more. You may see good reasons to keep the current system - but i can't agree with them. So in the end we can only agree to disagree.

Lucius_Aelius

Keep the current system.

xaan wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Because established lore should never be broken (expanded upon yes, but not rewritten) and immersion should be maintained wherever possible as a rule, if you can't understand that then I'm done trying to explain because it couldn't be more clear or simple.

As interesting as it is to hear a game have centralized selling that doesn't suck, this system is almost perfect for this game, and with a few minor tweaks it could be even better. You have made your arguments for why you think an AH could work and I'd be lying if I said I knew for certain that it couldn't, but it would absolutely violate Lore and destroy immersion just like so many other features in this game that were poorly designed, and pointing out other mistakes in no way excuses committing more, that's just common sense.

There are just too many reasons why this system is awesome and an AH would be horrible, I just don't see any good arguments against the system we have. Arguments for some minor improvements sure but that's it.

And yet the lore clearly has already been broken whenever the dev's felt doing so would improve the game. So "never" does not apply any more. You may see good reasons to keep the current system - but i can't agree with them. So in the end we can only agree to disagree.

Exactly, it has been broken before, and each and every time has been a mistake, no exceptions. You suggesting that somehow means we should just throw lore out the window is downright idiotic, it doesn't even remotely make the slightest bit of sense to anyone with half a brain. I don't intend to be mean but facts are facts and you're refusing to accept some that are blatantly obvious, all I'm doing is being honest.

idk

Keep the current system.

I expect OP understands the poll does not provide meaningful data. It's not a real survey. Just a measure of those who happen to see the poll and choose to reply. Meaningless is almost every measure.

xaan

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Exactly, it has been broken before, and each and every time has been a mistake, no exceptions. You suggesting that somehow means we should just throw lore out the window is downright idiotic, it doesn't even remotely make the slightest bit of sense to anyone with half a brain. I don't intend to be mean but facts are facts and you're refusing to accept some that are blatantly obvious, all I'm doing is being honest.

It's my firm opinion that gameplay comes first. Especially if there is magic in the game that can always serve as an easy explanation for everything.

tryia3b14a_ESO

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

tryia3b14a_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

tryia3b14a_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

xaan wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

That's not an excuse to give anyone anything they want without working for it, if that's how games worked no one would play them. There needs to be a balance where you have to work an appropriate amount for the appropriate reward, and asking for too much without wanting to work for it is lazy and childish. Ideally any work we do in a game should be fun yes, doesn't mean it's not still work, a distinction you and many others fail to recognize.

I fully agree, there needs to be a balance between invested effort and reward.

However, simply declaring a standard auction house to have too little effort for too much reward doesn't make it so. Underlining this non argument with an ad hominem attack by insinuating everyone who supports it just "wants everything on a silver platter" is really just bad style. It doesn't make your non argument better. It just reveals your lack of actual argument.

Except that's exactly what has happened in other games, Auction Houses do trivialize the acquisition of loot and make it easier to find anything you want there then getting it to drop yourself, that is simply a fact. In order for ZOS to stop that from happening they'd basically have to interfere with the system somehow to stop it, and I can't imagine any better way for them to do that than by implementing the system they have now.

The current system is specifically designed to make it more difficult to find what you want at a consistent price. It's frankly brilliant, you decentralize everything so you aren't guaranteed to find what you want in any one place, and the price variations mean that even if prices are expensive in some places they're cheaper somewhere else, leading to great deals being found if you're patient enough.

When the complaint that people make is that it's too hard to find what they want, they're complaining about the exact thing this system was designed to do, it's like complaining that a car drives fast or that airplanes fly. And yes, when someone complains to me that they want to get everything they desire without putting in any effort, which is exactly what pretty much everyone opposed to this system is saying in almost those exact words, that's laziness pure and simple.

You don't have to like it, doesn't mean it's not true. I get that most people don't like searching all the traders, but I for one find it to be something of an adventure, seeing all the different things for different prices being sold at various places, and when I finally find that great deal it's an enormous sense of victory.

Anyone saying that they can't be bothered with such an easy (albeit somewhat time-consuming and not the most fun) task is saying that they're lazy, that's what lazy means, being unwilling to put in the appropriate effort, and if anything it's still too easy to find too many great things for sale with this system, and the acquisition of loot is therefore trivialized compared to no trading at all.

The easier it becomes to trade with more people, the worse the trivializing gets, and as such an AH is guaranteed to make it worse, it's common sense and if you can't see that then I can't help you.

I spent two hours looking for a recipe for Gods-Blind-Me for my provisioning writ. This is a recipe that sells for 20 gold sometimes. Other times, people throw it away, because it is common. That was all the play time I had that day. I fruitlessly searched for a recipe. The feeling I had when I logged off was of disappointment and unfulfillment. I did not log on the next day.

It is not acceptable, not fun, and not realistic that something that common and unvaluable be that difficult to find just because the system we have is so cumbersome and difficult to use.

You're also fooling yourself if you think that this system in any way keeps items rare. People can literally make some of the best items in the game through crafting. People who are in a large trading guild will have no problems finding items and resources.

This system only hinders the casual player.

That's an exception though, you're looking for something pretty much no one cares about, that's not the trading system's fault. The game needs to be designed such that those relatively worthless things can be obtained from places besides a trader.

Complaining about the traders not having it for sale is like complaining about a grocery store not having some bizarre foreign fruit that most people have never heard of, it's just not something you can reasonably expect to find because no one besides you wants it. It sucks sure, but it's not the store's fault for not selling something pretty much no one would ever buy.

No, it would be like me complaining that a resturant doesn't sell flour because they only sell fancy pre-made meals and flour is cheap, common, and worthless. Only in this world there is no grocery store for me to buy cheap, common stuff. That's a problem.

I used the recipe as an example because I assumed it would be a sought after item since the provisioning writ required it, but there are tons of other things I've searched for and been unable to find. Especially non level 50 equipment.

Wrong, that's just so completely wrong. Players only bother selling to other players things that they think will sell, just like stores in real life, and anything they don't think will sell is something they don't bother listing at all (unless they literally have nothing else to sell).

If everyone could sell an unlimited amount of items that would be different, but if you've got a choice to sell something worthless or something worth a lot you'd be a fool not to sell the latter, which is why most people just get rid of them.

I probably ran across around 50 copies of a similar recipe, "Muthsera's Remorse" for 20 to 100 gold during my search. I wouldn't say this recipe is more or less sought after. They are both used in provisioning writs. And I know that somewhere out there is a copy of Gods-Blind-Me that someone wants to sell, and I want to buy. I just can't find it because of the clunky guild trader system. I don't even know where all the guild traders are.

All I'm saying is that there are a lot of items for sale. Some are similar to what you want, but the chance of finding the EXACT item you want is almost impossible.

I feel like our current trader system is just about settling for what you can find instead of what you want.

smacx250

Keep the current system.

@tryia3b14a_ESO - sorry if I missed someone else already letting you know, but you can buy recipies for writs from the vendors:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245044/good-news-for-provisioners-can-get-the-recipe-for-your-writ

BenevolentBowd

Keep the current system.

1. Trading Guilds spend a lot of effort and planning to secure their chosen spot each week
2. Better immersion
3. Bargain hunters and "pickers" can shop around for deals and resale opportunities
4. Awesome gold sink that drains millions of gold out of economy

tryia3b14a_ESO

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

smacx250 wrote: »

@tryia3b14a_ESO - sorry if I missed someone else already letting you know, but you can buy recipies for writs from the vendors:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245044/good-news-for-provisioners-can-get-the-recipe-for-your-writ

Omg that's so awesome. I really didn't want to give up on provisioning writs to be honest. Thank you for sharing this information.

Lucius_Aelius

Keep the current system.

tryia3b14a_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

tryia3b14a_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

tryia3b14a_ESO wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

xaan wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

That's not an excuse to give anyone anything they want without working for it, if that's how games worked no one would play them. There needs to be a balance where you have to work an appropriate amount for the appropriate reward, and asking for too much without wanting to work for it is lazy and childish. Ideally any work we do in a game should be fun yes, doesn't mean it's not still work, a distinction you and many others fail to recognize.

I fully agree, there needs to be a balance between invested effort and reward.

However, simply declaring a standard auction house to have too little effort for too much reward doesn't make it so. Underlining this non argument with an ad hominem attack by insinuating everyone who supports it just "wants everything on a silver platter" is really just bad style. It doesn't make your non argument better. It just reveals your lack of actual argument.

Except that's exactly what has happened in other games, Auction Houses do trivialize the acquisition of loot and make it easier to find anything you want there then getting it to drop yourself, that is simply a fact. In order for ZOS to stop that from happening they'd basically have to interfere with the system somehow to stop it, and I can't imagine any better way for them to do that than by implementing the system they have now.

The current system is specifically designed to make it more difficult to find what you want at a consistent price. It's frankly brilliant, you decentralize everything so you aren't guaranteed to find what you want in any one place, and the price variations mean that even if prices are expensive in some places they're cheaper somewhere else, leading to great deals being found if you're patient enough.

When the complaint that people make is that it's too hard to find what they want, they're complaining about the exact thing this system was designed to do, it's like complaining that a car drives fast or that airplanes fly. And yes, when someone complains to me that they want to get everything they desire without putting in any effort, which is exactly what pretty much everyone opposed to this system is saying in almost those exact words, that's laziness pure and simple.

You don't have to like it, doesn't mean it's not true. I get that most people don't like searching all the traders, but I for one find it to be something of an adventure, seeing all the different things for different prices being sold at various places, and when I finally find that great deal it's an enormous sense of victory.

Anyone saying that they can't be bothered with such an easy (albeit somewhat time-consuming and not the most fun) task is saying that they're lazy, that's what lazy means, being unwilling to put in the appropriate effort, and if anything it's still too easy to find too many great things for sale with this system, and the acquisition of loot is therefore trivialized compared to no trading at all.

The easier it becomes to trade with more people, the worse the trivializing gets, and as such an AH is guaranteed to make it worse, it's common sense and if you can't see that then I can't help you.

I spent two hours looking for a recipe for Gods-Blind-Me for my provisioning writ. This is a recipe that sells for 20 gold sometimes. Other times, people throw it away, because it is common. That was all the play time I had that day. I fruitlessly searched for a recipe. The feeling I had when I logged off was of disappointment and unfulfillment. I did not log on the next day.

It is not acceptable, not fun, and not realistic that something that common and unvaluable be that difficult to find just because the system we have is so cumbersome and difficult to use.

You're also fooling yourself if you think that this system in any way keeps items rare. People can literally make some of the best items in the game through crafting. People who are in a large trading guild will have no problems finding items and resources.

This system only hinders the casual player.

That's an exception though, you're looking for something pretty much no one cares about, that's not the trading system's fault. The game needs to be designed such that those relatively worthless things can be obtained from places besides a trader.

Complaining about the traders not having it for sale is like complaining about a grocery store not having some bizarre foreign fruit that most people have never heard of, it's just not something you can reasonably expect to find because no one besides you wants it. It sucks sure, but it's not the store's fault for not selling something pretty much no one would ever buy.

No, it would be like me complaining that a resturant doesn't sell flour because they only sell fancy pre-made meals and flour is cheap, common, and worthless. Only in this world there is no grocery store for me to buy cheap, common stuff. That's a problem.

I used the recipe as an example because I assumed it would be a sought after item since the provisioning writ required it, but there are tons of other things I've searched for and been unable to find. Especially non level 50 equipment.

Wrong, that's just so completely wrong. Players only bother selling to other players things that they think will sell, just like stores in real life, and anything they don't think will sell is something they don't bother listing at all (unless they literally have nothing else to sell).

If everyone could sell an unlimited amount of items that would be different, but if you've got a choice to sell something worthless or something worth a lot you'd be a fool not to sell the latter, which is why most people just get rid of them.

I probably ran across around 50 copies of a similar recipe, "Muthsera's Remorse" for 20 to 100 gold during my search. I wouldn't say this recipe is more or less sought after. They are both used in provisioning writs. And I know that somewhere out there is a copy of Gods-Blind-Me that someone wants to sell, and I want to buy. I just can't find it because of the clunky guild trader system. I don't even know where all the guild traders are.

All I'm saying is that there are a lot of items for sale. Some are similar to what you want, but the chance of finding the EXACT item you want is almost impossible.

I feel like our current trader system is just about settling for what you can find instead of what you want.

Muthsera's Remorse is given as a reward for Provisioning Writs, anyone who regularly does them (like me) has those recipes coming out of our ears, hence why there are so many more of those than other recipes.

And everyone agrees that the UI needs a major upgrade, for one thing being able to search for things by name, anything less is utterly ridiculous and unacceptable, and it's a travesty that the UI has gone this long without being completely overhauled.

That's a completely separate issue though from this discussion, since this is about scrapping the system entirely and not about implementing common sense fixes. The system is fine, the UI just need to be improved so that when you're standing next to a Trader you can properly search his/her inventory.

Lucius_Aelius

Keep the current system.

tryia3b14a_ESO wrote: »

smacx250 wrote: »

@tryia3b14a_ESO - sorry if I missed someone else already letting you know, but you can buy recipies for writs from the vendors:

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/245044/good-news-for-provisioners-can-get-the-recipe-for-your-writ

Omg that's so awesome. I really didn't want to give up on provisioning writs to be honest. Thank you for sharing this information.

I'm sorry I'd have told you myself but I thought everyone knew this, it was listed in the patch notes a while back, I don't understand how anyone can play a game without reading through all the patch notes from every patch but lots of people don't and it just didn't occur to me that you might not have, yes all writ recipes can be purchased from brewers now.

Kalifas

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

ADarklore wrote: »

I still prefer the idea against a AH is that it is completely lore-breaking and immersion-breaking. Sorry, but Tamriel doesn't have 'internet' service so there is no logical way a global AH would make sense.

It's amazing to me, perhaps it's the 'Gen-Instant Gratification' generation... but people seem to forget what shopping was like in the real world before internet. I remember having to drive from store to store, sometimes different towns/cities looking for what I wanted... which is exactly what you have to do in ESO... it adds realism. Oh, but 'Gen-Instant Gratification' doesn't want to take that time to actually 'shop', they want, and they want NOW. Sorry, but this is an MMO, where time-sinks are common- some times sinks you will enjoy, some you won't... but if you want, then you put the time into achieving- including shopping for items.

When has immersion meant anything in the last 6-9 months? We get account wide champion points, enlightenment, nameplates and UI features, an infinite craft bag, no in game barber system, etc, etc. For every immersion breaking convenience ZoS doesn't offer PC players get it in addons.

I think the Guild Stores are going bye bye eventually. It's only a matter of time since most players from the mmo worlds are used to centralized stores and ZoS bends over backwards to make that money. Sorry, but I see it happening if the complaints and cries for AH keep coming.

BenevolentBowd

Keep the current system.

Annalyse wrote: »

I think the current system is fine, but I wouldn't mind seeing some changes like:

1. Add more guild traders, especially to the larger cities. But also to some places like Davon's Watch that only has one despite having a decent amount of traffic.
2. Revamp the search so that people don't have to use Awesome Guild Store just to not go insane
3. Make sure the traders are easy to get to from the wayshrine. Bring the ones in the Outlaw's Refuges out so they are not so useless, even if they just stand at the Refuge entrance (so people will at least notice them)

I used to want more traders but come to realize that better option, in my opinion, reduce the number of traders over all but increase guild membership limits to 1000 and increase the limit of items that can be listed at a time. Eliminate the wilderness and refuge sites (except for Theives Den). Standardize numbers: 10 in capitals / large cities / settlements with player housing (up from 8), 4 in areas with their own minimap (up from 2).

1. more listings, more items sold, more revenue for the guild to fund trader
2. few traders to check
3. keeps the competition for good spots and gold sink alive

:

Stoutartifact47

Keep the current system.

I think the current system works providing you are in a good guild, I don't know where my guilds traders are if I wish to sell/buy I go to the bank as an endless trek around the world checking each guild trader is too long. I would like some sort of market trade where in popular city's you could "speak" I'm speech bubble what item you are selling and people could "speak" bids in thier speech bubbles. Not a perfect idea but something along those lines with a little adaptation could work.

smacx250

Keep the current system.

Stoutartifact47 wrote: »

I think the current system works providing you are in a good guild, I don't know where my guilds traders are if I wish to sell/buy I go to the bank as an endless trek around the world checking each guild trader is too long. I would like some sort of market trade where in popular city's you could "speak" I'm speech bubble what item you are selling and people could "speak" bids in thier speech bubbles. Not a perfect idea but something along those lines with a little adaptation could work.

You can with text chat, but it can only be seen as a "bubble" if they have the text bubble option turned on (I do). Otherwise it still shows in the chat log. I don't know if that feature is going to console along with text chat or not. I wonder if the informal trade will be easier on when text chat comes to console - I see quite a few people using it on PC, especially near the guild traders. Just undercut what you find in the traders for sought after items and they seem to go pretty quick.

Cheveyo

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

xaan wrote: »

Lucius_Aelius wrote: »

Because established lore should never be broken (expanded upon yes, but not rewritten) and immersion should be maintained wherever possible as a rule, if you can't understand that then I'm done trying to explain because it couldn't be more clear or simple.

As interesting as it is to hear a game have centralized selling that doesn't suck, this system is almost perfect for this game, and with a few minor tweaks it could be even better. You have made your arguments for why you think an AH could work and I'd be lying if I said I knew for certain that it couldn't, but it would absolutely violate Lore and destroy immersion just like so many other features in this game that were poorly designed, and pointing out other mistakes in no way excuses committing more, that's just common sense.

There are just too many reasons why this system is awesome and an AH would be horrible, I just don't see any good arguments against the system we have. Arguments for some minor improvements sure but that's it.

And yet the lore clearly has already been broken whenever the dev's felt doing so would improve the game. So "never" does not apply any more. You may see good reasons to keep the current system - but i can't agree with them. So in the end we can only agree to disagree.

Exactly, it has been broken before, and each and every time has been a mistake, no exceptions. You suggesting that somehow means we should just throw lore out the window is downright idiotic, it doesn't even remotely make the slightest bit of sense to anyone with half a brain. I don't intend to be mean but facts are facts and you're refusing to accept some that are blatantly obvious, all I'm doing is being honest.

People keep bring up lore, but there is no lore for guild traders, either.
The only kind of trader that exists in the lore has been NPC merchants, which is not what the guild traders are.

Belethor doesn't give you any gold for the stuff he sells to you.

So don't try and claim the system you benefit from is lore friendly.

Uriel_Nocturne

Keep the current system.

1) The OP started out this thread with highly misleading information. There is no Auction House in ESO. Just Guild Traders. An Auction House implies "bidding" on items.

2) Anyone who thinks that an Auction house will "save" ESO is wildly mistaken. If an actual AH were ever put in this game, does anyone actually think that any player with under $1mil gold in the bank would ever be able to buy anything? Becasue you wouldn't. Not if there were an actual Auction House.

3) "But Uriel, how bad could an Auction House be for ESO!?" I would like to invite all the champions of introducing an Auction House to research the monopolies created utilizing the in-game auction houses in WoW, Star Wars Galaxies, Neverwinter, etc. You "Soldiers for the Auction House" think the current system is a monopoly? then you apparently have never played any MMO with an ACTUAL Auction House.

4) Still don't believe me that an Auction House is a bad idea? I formally abdicate the remainder of my time to allow you to research the Auction House introduced in Diablo 3. Go ahead, look that one up. I'll wait.

...

Finished?

If you're still deluded into thinking that an Auction House (and I mean an ACTUAL Auction House with proper bidding on items for sale) is good for any MMO, then you should probably go an play an MMO that actually has one. Try forcing your way into those markets to "make your millions". I guarantee that you won't be able to, and once you start to become a credible threat to the Merchant Guilds (official and unofficial in those games) who already have strangle-holds on those AH's, they'll simply band together and out-bid you into poverty.

Because all of these calls I see for "Auction Houses" are based on highly idealized, Bohemian themes of how one individual thinks a market should run. Nowhere in any of these ideas/threads do I see anyone in favor of adding an AH who might actually know what an Auction house is, or how they operate.

You think you're poor now? Think it's hard to find an item and also be able to afford it now? You have no idea the level of poverty and item scarcity that would enter this game should a real Auction House be implemented.

Trust me, you guys are much better off with the player-policed system that we have with the Guild Traders.

Cheveyo

Scrap the original guild auction houses and make one simple central auction house everyone can use.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

If you're still deluded into thinking that an Auction House (and I mean an ACTUAL Auction House with proper bidding on items for sale) is good for any MMO, then you should probably go an play an MMO that actually has one. Try forcing your way into those markets to "make your millions". I guarantee that you won't be able to, and once you start to become a credible threat to the Merchant Guilds (official and unofficial in those games) who already have strangle-holds on those AH's, they'll simply band together and out-bid you into poverty.

Because all of these calls I see for "Auction Houses" are based on highly idealized, Bohemian themes of how one individual thinks a market should run. Nowhere in any of these ideas/threads do I see anyone in favor of adding an AH who might actually know what an Auction house is, or how they operate.

You think you're poor now? Think it's hard to find an item and also be able to afford it now? You have no idea the level of poverty and item scarcity that would enter this game should a real Auction House be implemented.

Trust me, you guys are much better off with the player-policed system that we have with the Guild Traders.

1. The only reason you want to keep the current system is because it allows you to create a monopoly and make millions of gold.

2. People asking for an auction house system are not asking for it as a method of making the same amount of money as you, but as a way of facilitating easier trade.

3. I play games with actual auction houses. WoW, FFXIV, Guild Wars 2, etc. Don't try to play it like nobody has every played those games but you.

4. An auction house system will make it far easier to get items, as everyone on the server will be listing them. Not JUST members of a specific guild. Everyone's items > A single guild's items.


Going back to my first point: Just admit the only reason you're against the auction house is because you know you will no longer be able to control the market.