The Impenetrable Trait & Item Sets

AJTC5000

Have prosperous and training items drop only from zone quests and random world mobs/public dungeon mobs, meaning they should not be found in group dungeons, trials, undaunted chests, daily quest coffers or as mailed rewards of any kind.

Bowser

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

This.

dylanjaygrobbelaarb16_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here. We’d like to share with you what we’re currently considering.

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

Thoughts?

remove prosperous and training from ALL 160 cp gear, leave it as craftable for endgame gear.(honestly everything but divines/infused/impen should be removed from all gear except crafting- the loot tables are a nightmare)

remove ALL traits from the new pvp vendor bags(and all new pvp venders in the future) except impenetrable and infused, just like the weekend vendors are. traits that are not impen are just not viable in pvp for most builds. everyone has 40%+ crit without even trying and you melt with no crit resistance

or simply add trait changing to crafting and dont worry about it. one can wish

Ara_Valleria

Transairion wrote: »

Go read that thread in its entirety.

It's actually worse than that, if you actually bothered to read the rest of the post where I posted the 4-day total over all my characters. Have you ever done endgame PvE? Stuff like vMoL, vSO, vMA? Yea, the mobs in trials drop 1 gold. I get a couple thousand or more each from vendor goods from each vSO run, and if I'm lucky, maybe a couple hundred from actual kills.

How much gold you get depends on what you grind. Go grind senches for hide scraps, and you get zero gold--any gold you get is in the form of vendorables (and the fruits of scrap refinement). Grind humanoid enemies, and you get more gold. So in that sense, Prosperous is even worse than advertised, since not only is it only good for gold grinding, it's only good for a very specific type of gold grinding with specific types of enemies, whereas Impenetrable's benefit in grinding is much more even and non-specific.

More importantly, if you really did want to grind for direct gold drops (nevermind that even when killing humanoids, the majority of your gold comes from vendorables), why the hell are you not using crafted gear? We're talking about endgame gear like stuff from trials, ICP, etc. You want Prosperous? Craft it. Nobody's taking that from you. But nobody in their right mind is going to grind out a set of Scathing Mage or Spell Power Cure so that they can go use that for mob grinding. No, they're going to use sets like that for endgame PvE, and, again, if you've ever stepped into trials or other true endgame PvE content, you'd realize just how ridiculous your statement is.

I like how you decided to completely omit the clarification I made for ignorant people that Trials are the most endgame PvE possible, and that it's fine to remove them for that specifically. But why is "endgame PvE" apparently defined as group content only? Are we not allowed to play a primarily solo game solo now? Anything over level 50 is "endgame" now, I don't know if you noticed, gear cap isn't going past CP160 ever again (reportedly) and only CP cap will be raised for progression to continue.

But okay, yes Propserous IS bad... if the only PvE content you do in an MMO is group dungeons and Trials and literally nothing else. But in that case, any trait other than Divines (and a tank trait if you're a tank) is worthless anyway, so that's 7-8 terrible traits and 1 good trait for PvE then. You're not going to slap full Reinforced on your DPS or healer either, or most of the other traits. Same arguments against these two should apply to them, because they're just as useless depending on build if the only thing we'll consider in this huge game is group content and be totally ignorant to the rest.

But let's also ignore that, because being ignorant is convenient to our argument: what if I do want to use CP160 gear in Training? Is that a problem for you? Am I not allowed to have Training Molag Kena because you're the boss and you said so? As long as I don't whip it out for Veteran Maw of Lorkjaw, is that somehow hurting you?

No, and any argument made otherwise is a silly one. People are free to do what they want solo, but it's going to hard to do that if you remove it from the game entirely just because you don't like getting those drops. And again, the ONLY people who should be getting "perfect traits" are those doing Trials and (Vet) Arenas due to the teamwork, skill and huge time investment required to complete. Can't say the same for the bumpkins like myself doing Vet Dungeons, we don't deserve a handout for 100% Divines just because.


Don't take away people's freedom to build what they like using sets that they like just because you don't like getting certain drops. Trials are leagues above running something like a Vet Dungeon, so they should be rewarded with "top tier" gear.

Seriously, when I see people defending these training and prosperous drops on ENDGAME gear, it truly makes me believe they don't understand the mechanics of how the game work. Most likely the NB "tank" that has no taunt with a bow and resto staff you find in a group queue.
You want prosperous, CRAFT IT. In any style or set bonus you want!! You can not convince the people who actually run endgame content and understand the nuances of the game that a training Kena helm is "good" or "useful".
Don't pee on my leg and tell me it's raining.

And why aren't players allowed to have non-crafted item sets in Prosperous or Training? Just because you said so?

Because that's basically what you're huffing and puffing for, taking away other people's toys because you don't like them yourself.

me_ming

Transairion wrote: »

To DISPROVE that Prosperous is not better than PvE Impen, you have to actually test it... wear full propserous, go fight 1000 bandits in a delve somewhere. Count gold, leave, -repair bill to get result. Wear full Impen, go fight another 1000 bandits, count gold, leave, -repair bill to get result.

This isn't complicated, nobody can just be bothered to test it because it's easier to say "Propserous is terribu".

Prosperous IS terrible for a cp160 gear, I get more gold selling items with good traits (Impen being one of them) in guild stores than "farming gold" with a prosperous gear. lol. Heck, it'd probably be more efficient to wear an Impen in PvE than wearing a prosperous, at least, I won't have to repair gear as much.

And no one is taking away your toys by removing training and prosperous from end game loot. If you want them craft them or have someone craft them for you. Having divines (even infused) drop on endgame is better than either training/prosperous, killing more mobs in a lesser amount of time is way better than having to go through a vet dungeon/trial/any endgame content for hours because you have a training or prosperous trait on you.

Personally, I don't think this wouldn't have been an issue if the RNG wasn't too terrible. I wouldn't have mind getting training or prosperous if I also got divines/infused/impen as much (if not more) as I got the two other less desired traits. What right now, you are guaranteed to get these traits in every endgame run you do. As to why this was the case, I could not understand. I do hope ZoS change it though with this thread.

Hutch679

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here. We’d like to share with you what we’re currently considering.

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

Thoughts?

100% for it. If you are completing end game content then I highly doubt anyone would need prosperous or training trait gear making it less than an ideal drop. However, impenetrable is desirable in pvp even if they don't get a division of new or something it can still be either sold or worn for pve until something else drops. Training and prosperous are literally the last option for any content at max level

GoodFella146

Just add trait change. This resolves 100% of all issues here as well as others.

Sublime

Just a random idea for a possible change to prosperous (didn't read through the whole thread so I don't know if somebody posted it before, if so please ignore):

Replace the current bonus with one that increases the chance of dropped items having the trait X, where X could be somehow selected similar to a mundus stone.

Examples:

• Increases the chance of dropped items having the Divine trait by 5%
• Increases the chance of dropped items having the Impenetrable trait by 5%
• etc

With this there's also the possibility to retain the old prosperous trait, by putting the default drop rate at 0% and players who'd like to drop items with increased gold gained could just equip gear with a chance to drop gear that has +% gold gained trait. This would require an additional 10th trait though.

JodaGreyhame

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

Thoughts?

Yes, this! Remove prosperous and training from all end game gear. It is useful for low level CP / non-vet gear, but useless for end game. It would be good to add Impen to all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop.

On another note about traits, why not make all sets drop with NO traits, then people have to pay gold per item to an NPC to add a trait. The same NPC could then change a trait for double the cost next time.

This would be a good gold sink and allow people to choose prosperous/training if their heart desires

Xsorus

There really isn't a needed discussion on this; the community has constantly said Remove Prosperous and Training; Add Impen..

PvE's get rid of two *** traits no one needs; and basically end up with 1 better chance of getting what they want...while pvpers get an option to actually PvE in this game..something you bloody want.

There was a reason DAOC was successful as a PvP and PvE game....cause while you could craft gear to PvP in..you generally wanted to Mix and Match your gear between PvE drops and Crafted (and some PvP gear you could buy)

This led to all areas of the game being played....This is a GOOD thing.

milesrodneymcneely2_ESO

Oreyn_Bearclaw wrote: »

I think the much better option is to just introduce a trait change mechanic. Don't make it easy or trivial, but make it possible. You could either do it through crafting and a rare drop to unlock a trait or add it to a vendor with a decent sized gold sink attached to it.

Oreyn gets it.

ixie

Replace prosperous with a weapon speed trait

Derra

Trial sets are interesting for certain pvp setups while at the same time being useless for pve. At the same time it would create more trading opportunities.

Yay for impenetrable on everything in pve endgame and yay for removing prosperous and training.

Katinas

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

These two.
Let Impenetrable armor (and shields) drop everywhere - trials, DSA/MSA, weekly rewards, dungeons, gold/silver/bronze keys, the lot. There is no reason that if Impenetrable is to return to drop tables it should be limited to where it drops and where it simply does not no matter how much you want it.
Also, Prosperous and Training are of such limited practical use that it would be great that the above mentioned drops did not come with these two traits. Let them be crafted only.

code65536

There are a lot of "PvE" sets that are just as useful in PvP, if not more so. Spell Power Cure, Leeching Plate, Amberplasm (arguably better in PvP than in PvE), Skirmisher (again, better in PvP than in PvE, though for this set, Well-Fitted is generally preferred), Dreugh King Slayer (almost nobody in PvE uses it, but it's popular in PvP), etc. Even some trial sets--Vicious Ophidian and Eternal Yokeda in particular--can be really nice in PvP.

This artificial division of gear being PvE vs. PvP is nonsensical, and for some sets (e.g., Amberplasm), they're not even on the right side of that arbitrary line of division.

Docmandu

I don't get people that say, it's ok for prosperous / training to drop for everything except Trials because Trials are the "very endgame".

That might be true for some, but it's most definitely not true for everybody. For some people endgame is:

- running vMSA to get that #1 leaderboard run
- doing PvP
- running vDSA
- running Dungeons
- picking flowers
- trading
- ... insert whatever ...


So why make the distinction in what drops where for just Trials. What makes a group of 24 more endgame than the rest?! That damn WoW / raid mentality needs to be left out of this game!

code65536

Docmandu wrote: »

I don't get people that say, it's ok for prosperous / training to drop for everything except Trials because Trials are the "very endgame".

That might be true for some, but it's most definitely not true for everybody. For some people endgame is:

- running vMSA to get that #1 leaderboard run
- doing PvP
- running vDSA
- running Dungeons
- picking flowers
- trading
- ... insert whatever ...


So why make the distinction in what drops where for just Trials. What makes a group of 24 more endgame than the rest?! That damn WoW / raid mentality needs to be left out of this game!

The "endgame" designation isn't arbitrary: trials are considered "endgame" because they are difficult. They are the most difficult content in the game. Granted, some of the outdated trials are quite easy, but that's the result of them not keeping up with power creep and is not intended.

In any case, the "endgame" label isn't important. What is important is that the people who are capable of completing vMoL or vSO are also the kind of people who would consider Prosperous and Training to be an insult. We throw out the term "endgame" as a sort of imprecise shorthand, but the crux remains: For the kinds of people who run (and are capable of running) this kind of content, these traits are indeed considered useless. It's irrelevant what flower pickers or RPers think, since they aren't the ones encountering the loot tables in vSO or vMoL.

TL;DR: A loot table should suit the kinds of people who would encounter that particular loot table.

Coolio_Wolfus

Coolio_Wolfus wrote: »

No training trait on cp 160 gear, hmmm what happens when cp 160 is no longer end game gear tho?

And don't say that isn't a possibility as if you check the dark brotherhood removal of veteran ranks post:
elderscrollsonline.com/en-us/news/post/2016/05/10/dark-brotherhood-deep-dive-what-veteran-rank-removal-means-for-your-character

---

FREQUENTLY ASKED QUESTIONS

We also wanted to take this opportunity to answer a few of the more common questions we've seen on the official ESO forums from players who have gotten a chance to try these changes on the PTS:

Q: Can I get Champion Point 101 or Champion Point 400 gear?

A: The gear cap is currently CP 160, but it will be raised in the future. Gear will exist every 10 Champion Points so in the case of CP 101, the gear level will be rounded to the nearest ten; it will drop at either CP 100 or CP 110.

---

As said, a trade in token style system for the trait a player wants may also present a suitable alternative for those wanting specific gear drops, so yes set drops to the popular options but allow others to get the sets they want via trade in, even if the trade in is 2 of the same set items for a choice of trait on a replacement of 1 of the trade in items.

Just my PoV on this situation.

Thinking about this further, adding the prosperous gold trait to the training one 'more exp per kill & more gold collected' and then replacing the current prosperous drops with inpen would retain the existing loot drop % whilst giving the drops some players prefer in the said loot drops, add in a buyable/craftable trait change and even more players should be happy.

cpuScientist

I am all for the removal of training on any gear over level 49, and prosperous from the game period.

As for impen. YES ADD IT IN OFCOURSE.

HOWEVER if you took impen out of the game, and added it's bonus to battle spirit, I reckon that would a good too, and would really truly allow for builds. With people going all well fitted or divines or reinforced amd the such. It would not be bad at all, and would promote a touch of diversity.

But if you dint wanna do that then fine, it's a better system, but fine just please remove training and prosperous and ADD Impen.

MrTtheDK

Personofsecrets wrote: »

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , please be aware that many players would gladly pay $50 for a forge that has the capability of changing item traits and appearances.

This would be a terrible idea and fringe on pay to win.

Being an game PVEr and Pvper I would greatly enjoy have training and prosperous removed and replaced with impen on all sets. This would allow greater diversity in builds for PVP since its near suicide not having at least 5 impen for light and medium armor builds. Even end game trial gear should drop impen. I used to use infal aether back when medium weaving proced it and it was OP.

Reverb

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

Remove prosperous and training , replace both with impen on the RNGesus slot machines .


Edit to add
Make bind on equip and vICP and vWGT pieces available .

This. All of this.

ssewallb14_ESO

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here. We’d like to share with you what we’re currently considering.

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

Thoughts?

Impenetrable:

• A piece of impenetrable subtracts 3.5% from the enemy's crit multiplier. In terms of mitigation that is ~1300 physical and spell resist when crit.
• A piece of divines with the Atronach stone gives 17 magicka recovery for a Breton with 42 CP into Arcanist
• A piece of Infused on a large gold piece gives 237 max magicka, or 23 spell damage equivalent, for a CP capped Breton. It's less that half of that for small pieces.

It's pretty obvious that Impen is by far the most powerful trait in PvP, especially considering the meta now revolves around high burst damage. The meta now assumes anyone not stacking shields or completely avoiding any damage is running impen. Because of this, the trade-off of losing impen makes any potential gain from set bonuses impractical for most builds in PvP, needlessly removing many sets as options for PvP builds.

Training/Prosperous:

My issue with Training/Prosperous is there is no value in having specific dropped sets for the uses of these traits. Training is for leveling characters/skills/cp faster, prosperous will get you a bit more gold while leveling, or can be used as a rather inefficient way of making gold. Basic Crafted gear works fine in these situations. The value of specific gear sets is maximizing your character's potential at end-game, there is no point in doing this while leveling or killing mobs for gold. Currently they just dilute the loot tables and make RNG needlessly worse for players farming the sets, particularly the the low drop rate items or items behind multiple layers of RNG.

Solution

• Remove training and prosperous from all CP160 drops. This will ensure dropped traits have value, and prevent over dilution of the loot tables.
• Add impenetrable to the loot tables for all/most item sets, allowing more sets to be worth using in PvP

GreatWhite000

PLEASE remove prosperous and training!

Wouldn't mind having impenetrable drop in trials though.

Jaronking

I love how everyone coming together both PVE AND PvP players are all here to tell ZOS how much they hate getting Training and Prosperous drops on end game gear.Please listen ZOS.

neville_bart0s

I cant even sell training or prosperous gear, it is absolute rubbish at 160. get rid of it, add impen.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

Bowser wrote: »

This.

This. But remove Prosperous/Training from ALL ENDGAME CP160 Sets and undaunted helm/shoulders drops!


Please please, this would help Quality of Life so much and encourage PvP'ers to do more dungeons. I used to run dungeons occasionally for the random drop but I completely stopped because I HATE getting prosperous/training and I have no chance at impen.


Wrothgar sets like briarheart are fun but not effective in PvP because they don't come in Impen.

Cryptical

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here. We’d like to share with you what we’re currently considering.

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

Thoughts?

Looks like two issues, to me. First and second option address Impen being injected into the game, and the third option addresses the placement of early-game traits on late/end-game gear.

I would say, implement #1 and #3.

#1 because even people who complete a Trial still play in cyrodiil, and the sets that drop in Trials are useful in PvP.
#3 because by the time a character is seasoned enough to complete Trials and get those Trial sets, the player is also seasoned enough to have no use for end-game gear with early-game characteristics.

Vangy

OMG hallelujah! REMOVE THE PREPOSTEROUS AND TRASH TRAITS? Hell yeah!

Aeladiir

Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop = YES
Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets = YES

Also, remove prosperous and training from both trials and pledges/veteran dungeons.

ZoM_Head

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

There has been a longstanding request from some of our players to consider adding the Impenetrable Trait to item sets that drop from end-game PVE content. We’ve read arguments for and against making this change, and have discussed options among the team here. We’d like to share with you what we’re currently considering.

• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, regardless of where they drop
• Add Impenetrable as a valid Trait for all item sets in the game, except those that drop in Trials
• Remove Prosperous and Training as valid Traits from Trial item sets

Thoughts?

Actually, with the upcomming changes to Hel Ra, AA and vDSA i would like to see some impenetrable traits on armour.

Back in the days of VR12 i ran AvA with 5 piece Akaviri Dragongard set with my magicka DK with all impen traits.

I am sure some players will find CP160 impenetrable warlock armour pieces also very useful in AvA as well.

Maybe get rid of prosperous and training (seriously those two traits should not be in end game CP160 loot anyways) and add impen?