Official Feedback Thread for Racial Passive Balance

ADarklore

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

ADarklore wrote: »

Toc de Malsvi wrote: »

Bosmer and Khajit have suffered from sharing the strongest ganking passive in the game, combined with stamina racial bonus'. This made them very comparable, Khajit Crit made it highest performing PVE stamina DPS, but in PVP that crit did not perform as well thus Bosmer had their role. Now with Max stamina on Khajit being 3% higher than Bosmer, there really isn't a good reason to play Bosmer over Khajit.

Yes, because everyone only picks a race because of the passives and doesn't care about running around with a flapping tail and looking like a cat. Not everyone is a min/maxer... and it makes me wonder what their own data-mining shows as the most popular race in ESO?!? Perhaps they've seen an imbalance and are adjusting some racials accordingly.

Yes not everyone does but it only makes you feel worse when you play a Bosmer and know that you could perform your roles better if you just race changed..

You're talking to someone who just created a Magicka Templar with a Bosmer... and I'm loving that just fine. People need to stop worrying so much about 'what I could have' and starting learning to play with 'what they have' and make the best of it. Well, now with race changes they won't have to... but fact remains, you CAN be successful with ANY race, just some may take a bit more effort. But if you are playing your CHARACTER and not considering it some paper doll whose only reason for existence is to make big numbers fly, then yeah, you're probably not going to see the effort as being worthwhile.

Xsorus

A nord is still just a slightly weaker imperial; why ever pick it?

Personofsecrets

Greetings @ZOS_JessicaFolsom and @Wrobel ,

First and foremost, thank you for taking a look at this feedback. I hope to have a short and simple discussion with you as to why Orcs should further change so that they don't end up as just a shadow of the other classes. The reason that you should take my suggestions into account is because I have played as an Orc, almost exclusively, since I started playing during early patch 1.3.

I do want to give some credit to the designer of the Orc passives because it is unique in a sense. I see many Orc players who want to feel like a rough and tumble individual who can take a beating and dish out a beating too. That being said I will be focusing on the drawbacks of the current Orc, the drawbacks of the future Orc, and how Orc can be improved to be more in line with the other strong races.

A. Current

The current issue with the Orc is that, though unique in it's abilities to run fast and deal extra damage with physical attacks, those passive effects are extremely limited.

That extra speed almost doesn't matter in PVE and even in PVP, trying to catch someone with that extra running speed can almost feel like a trap because running to catch someone can leave the Orc who is in pursuit with no resources left to deal damage.

The extra damage done with physical attacks is also SEVERELY limited. Because of the many criteria that the type of physical attack must fall under in order to get the passive Orc buff it becomes true that only a small minority of stamina cost abilities are buffed by the Orc: attacks must be 5 meters or less, single target, and those limitations are very restricting. Comparing this passive to the Khajiit passive of increased critical damage and we will see how Khajiit gets a great amount of extra damage via it's bow attacks, dots, AOE attacks, single target attacks that are more than 5 meters in rang, and even the so-called Orc specialty of single target attacks that are less than 5 meters in range,

If we add the health regen passive that Orcs have on top of this, then we still basically don't have very much. The health regen Orc passive has always been only a small step above swimming speed and that is especially so today when players are trying to enjoy being a vampire. That means that current and future metas directly contradict any beneficial aspect that Orcs may receive from having extra health regeneration.

B. Future Issue

In the future, the major change for Orcs will be to gain healing received. If we keep in mind how Orcs currently rank, then we will understand how Orcs will still not be that special, power level wise, in the future. Giving Orcs a passive effect of healing received, a passive that was bad enough to be taken away from the Argonian race this very same update, does not only make Orcs no more desirable, but no more powerful in the future.

I'd like to add to the above that this healing received, similar to the run speed dilemma and health regen issues, just isn't a useful stat. The game has evolved to the point where healing received is boring and not useful. During 1.3 or against 1.5 Mantikora, I would have been thrilled to have extra healing received on the burn phases that required big healing ticks, but because of changes to the Champion Point system with regards to damage mitigation, it is likely that anything which kills a PVE player was a one shot. Healing received just doesn't work in this and the future meta that we will have.

Additionally, but on a smaller note, the increased inspiration amount is not exciting. It makes sense as to why Orcs gain crafting inspiration, but compared to other races, extra inspiration gained is not inspiring at all. The reason for this notion is because some passives, such as increased gold gain or increased chance to pickpocket will always be useful, but increased inspiration gain is not useful for anyone that completes their crafting levels.

C. My Proposed Solution

I have thought hard and long about these solutions. I have played as an Orc tank who can PVP as a tanky DPS for years. I talk to the players who have rolled Orc just for fun and even tried to make an Orc only guild at one point. I really want this race to be better for, lack of better phrase, the long term health of the game.

I also look to other common themes in the Elder Scrolls to draw inspiration as to what an Orc is and what feels cool. It is safe to say that I have thought quite a bit about the Orc passives and how to make them better - I even tried to have this conversation with @ZOS_GinaBruno when Imperial City was due for release.

1. First Bad Issue

I understand why Orcs have extra damage done and running speed. Orcs are into athletics and, like I alluded to earlier, can hold their own in a bar fight. That being said, it isn't very fair for Orcs if their passives can't work most of the time just like how the Khajiit racial passive benefits Khajiits no matter what type of attack that they are trying to dish out damage with.

2. Second Bad Issue

I understand why Orcs have health recovery and healing received. Orcs can take a beating, get back up, take another beating, and get back up again. It just isn't very fair for Orcs that they get these passives when the Imperial race will be consistently better at not getting Knocked out cold for just having a bigger stat pool. The nature of this game just does not allow for racial passives that deal with health recover and healing received to be that useful.

I am not saying that the Orc has to be a Khajiit and Imperial to be good or even interesting, but there is something wrong and not fair to Orc players when the Orc race get's easily outclassed by other Races in terms of damage and survivability because of how game mechanics work. How I would re-imagine the Orc follows.

3. First Good Solution

What is a stat that deals with taking a beating which Orcs, traditionally in Elder Scrolls games, have? Well I imagine that this passive that I am thinking of involves the ultimate generating system. In Skyrim Orc's had the ability to berserk. Like ultimate abilities in ESO, Orcs had to bide their time before being able to berserk and also like using an ultimate orcs would deal more damage after berserking. Biding time is synonymous with gaining ultimate, taking a beating, berserking, dealing big berserk damage, and, lets just be honest, being an Orc.

Please give Orcs the ability to gain extra Ultimate when the are struck and take damage. This type of an effect will not only be in line with Orcs of passed Elder Scrolls games, but it will also be very flavorful, and put Orcs in a very unique spot as damage takers who you better not think about crossing.

4. Second Good Solution

What is a way to make Orcs damage dealing capabilities more consistent? Well, the short and simple way would be to give Orcs and percentage increase to their weapon damage. This would make sure that Orcs are good at stamina based battle, that is in line with their athleticism, and also in line with the other classes who benefit from their passives consistently
.

Overall, the Health Recovery/Healing gained and the Swift passive could be totally lost and very little of value would be lost. If these passives that I suggest where to be added to Orcs, dealing with Ultimate gained per hit and % increase of weapon damage, then I think Orcs would be in a great spot.

Again, I want to finally feel good as an orc and I never have. Please take it from me, an expert Orc, that I know what I want, am suggesting things that are fair which would make Orc players happy, and that I thinking of changes which are in line with the Elder Scrolls brand and, especially, the Elder Scrolls Online as a whole.

Thank you,

LT

NovaShadow

As my breton magblade is now gimped because of the effective 'buffs' to altmer/dunmer I'd be stupid not to change races which I DON'T want to do.

Get rid of the breton spell resist/1% ap *** and replace it with magic damage (spell dmg/crit/elemental dmg) just something that actually makes the race useful.

Right now it's like you WANT me to spend real money to change my main's race to be effective at end game/pvp.

tinythinker

I like the Argonian changes, and have had one for each class at max rank for a while now. I can still keep one of those characters as a stam build and benefit from the self-healing ability, but my healer will do more for others in particular, and benefit from the extra magicka as well. I do appreciate why stam tanks would be unhappy, but I am guess it was too powerful to have healing received for yourself and extra healing for others at the same time. In any case, Argonians are getting looked at more seriously now by many players reading these notes.

As for Bretons, I have one at level 50+CP cap. The extra AP is a nice concept, and I get why the bonus is so low, but it's going to become a running joke among many players. Not sure buffing the bonus would be considered fair, so I wouldn't mind seeing that changed, but whatever, it isn't a big deal. I mean, I realize how that 1% compounds over time, but some players might not take the long view.

When it comes to Bosmer, the changes seem to leave them lagging behind Khajiit. Something like a boost to weapon attack speed being added to one of their existing passives could help catch up them up in DPS in a lore friendly way. As for their fun perk, it is situational like Argonian swim speed. I can see boosting the fall damage reduction to 40-50%, which would have general use for taking shortcuts in PvE and some great uses in PvP when trying to escape enemy players.

OrphanHelgen

I dont see the reason why you buff khajiit, when they have been knowned as the best pve dps stam race of every class.

I main orc and wont change it for life, so I will ofcorse with this, defend him

I think there is too many races that out stats orcs.

nords have more hp and same stam.
Imperials
Even argonians.

The 4% melee dmg dont do much, specially not as a DK, where is only counts on the first hit of your dots, making even rapid strike useless for this passive.
I suggest something like armor penetration passive, or higher stamina pool maybe.

A khajiit now, can have almost same hp and stam stats as an orc, and get additional 8% crit chance, and stamina recovery.
How does that compare to first hit of venomous claw having a 4% dmg bonus?

OrphanHelgen

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

Khajiit racial buff was not necessary. Many threads and players agree that they are the TOP race for stamina PVE dps. Additional thoughts about Khajiit inside spoiler.

Here are a list of changes i would have liked to see that did not happen (all my opinion's fellow forum user's). Additional thought's inside.

Imperial
-Increased maximum stamina passive Conditioning to 15%, up from 10%. Renamed this passive to Imperial Discipline.

Red Guard
-Adrenaline Rush - Increased the cooldown of this passive to 5/(X) seconds, up from 3 seconds.

Nord
-Increased Rugged passive to 12%, up from 6%.

I personally believe Imperial's should have 15% maximum stamina for a couple of reason's. Imperial's are a good race but lack sustain. With this buff, i believe they would be a great competitor for PvE dps because you can relie on your group mates for sustained resource assistance. They are also too similar to Redguard, when i picture both race's fighting, i believe Imperial should do more damage but loose on the sustained battle. (Also note Zos this is your Imperial Edition Race)

The increased cooldown to the Red Guard Adrenaline Rush passive is a slight nerf because i believe it is still a little to powerful. Many build's can throw resource recovery out the window and only relie on this passive. This is a slight nerf and i think is justifiable. (This is not the end of the world Red Guard's, just a slight balance tweak).

The Nord Rugged passive need's a buff. With addition to the stamina buff it received in this update, i believe Nord would be a great choice for many play-style's. When compared to Imperials, you will deal less damage but you will have much more damage mitigation. This passive also should not be effected by battle spirit in cryodill.


The changes to Khajiit i think are a little overkill. This race was already the TOP race for stamina dps. With this recent change to Khajiits passives (increased maximum stamina to 6%), they now step into the Bosmer's territory as the "best GANK race" for pvp in cryodill. I do not think Khajiit should have this right and should perform second best in GANK scenario's. Revert the maximum stamina increased to health and i think this is a fine change. This would also retain Bosmer's former glory of "TOP GANK" race and give that race a specialty.



My comments on all the tweak's to Affinity passive's.

I personally think each race should have something specific that buff's what ever Affinity bonus they have.

Breton - Light Armour Affinity - Grants X% more spell penetration with Light Armour (5 pieces or more)
Orc - Heavy Armour Affinity - Grants X% stamina recovery with heavy Armour (5 pieces or more)
Redguard - Shield Affinity - Reduce cost of Bash (Shield equipped)
Imperial - Shield Affinity - Increase damage of Bash (Just something different then Redguard) / (Shield equipped)
Argonian - Restoration Affinity - Reduce time to heavy attack with a Restoration staff
Dunmer - Ambidexterity - Increase Max magicka and stamina by X% with duel wielding
Nord - Two-Handed Weapon Expertise - Increase damage with Two hand by X%
High Elf - Destruction Talent - Increase damage with a Destruction staff by X%
Bosmer - Archery Expertise - Increase damage with a bow by X%
Khajiit - Medium Armor Expertise - Reduce roll/sneak/sprint cost by X% while in 5 medium Armour

JUST EXAMPLES

I think what is currently implemented for the Affinity passive's is pretty lame. I'd much rather see Race's be more powerful with specific weapons/armors.

m8



you wanna buff imperial and nords?

And leave orcs with a heavy armor forceing passive?

Nerf weed pls

GreenSoup2HoT

@OrphanHelgen Orc's just got a healing buff. Also, your not forced to wear heavy, your race would just get a bonus perk for wearing it if you wanted to wear heavy (since Orc's Affinity bonus is heavy armour).

In my suggestion, just because Nord gets a bonus with 2 handed weapons, does not mean you need to use one.

Navitas

The 7% flame damage increase on Destructive Mastery for Dunmers isn't currently working on PTS.



As you can see my tooltip on frost damage for force shock is 2114, divide that by 1.02 to account for the new dunmer 2% increased frost damage you get my exact tooltip for the flame damage on it, 2073 (rounded up ofc). Needs to be fixed ASAP por favor because flame damage increase is a pretty central part of deciding on dunmer as a race for a character.

As an extra, I race changed my character from dunmer to high elf to test. Here is the Blockade of Fire tooltip before:


Note it's at 2055

Now here is after race changing to high elf (4% more flame damage, theoretically it should go down since dunmer should give 7% more flame damage)



Note that it has now gone up to 2146, coincidentally if you take 2055 and multiply it by 1.04 you get 2137! "But wait!," I hear you shout, "That's not the same tooltip." No need to fear little Johnny, high elf also has 1% more max magicka which would account for that missing 9 damage. @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_JessicaFolsom @Wrobel pls notice me senpais so that I know ZOS has seen this bug report and I can sleep tonight.

OrphanHelgen

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@OrphanHelgen Orc's just got a healing buff. Also, your not forced to wear heavy, your race would just get a bonus perk for wearing it if you wanted to wear heavy (since Orc's Affinity bonus is heavy armour).

In my suggestion, just because Nord gets a bonus with 2 handed weapons, does not mean you need to use one.

I ment your suggestions

Orc - Heavy Armour Affinity - Grants X% stamina recovery with heavy Armour (5 pieces or more)

GreenSoup2HoT

OrphanHelgen wrote: »

GreenSoup2HoT wrote: »

@OrphanHelgen Orc's just got a healing buff. Also, your not forced to wear heavy, your race would just get a bonus perk for wearing it if you wanted to wear heavy (since Orc's Affinity bonus is heavy armour).

In my suggestion, just because Nord gets a bonus with 2 handed weapons, does not mean you need to use one.

I ment your suggestions

Orc - Heavy Armour Affinity - Grants X% stamina recovery with heavy Armour (5 pieces or more)

All the Affinity bonuses are open. Nords could have faster heavy attacks for example.

Stamina recovery for wearing heavy armour as an Orc would be pretty nice. Since they have already sprint reduce cost and sprint speed bonuses

Ajaxduo

I think it would be fair to request magic damage % to be added to Breton's Spell Resistance passive.

Ghost-Shot

Navitas wrote: »

The 7% flame damage increase on Destructive Mastery for Dunmers isn't currently working on PTS.



As you can see my tooltip on frost damage for force shock is 2114, divide that by 1.02 to account for the new dunmer 2% increased frost damage you get my exact tooltip for the flame damage on it (rounded up ofc). Needs to be fixed ASAP por favor because flame damage increase is a pretty central part of deciding on dunmer as a race for a character.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom I'm seeing the same thing on my Dunmer DK and Sorc.

phaneub17_ESO

Maybe I'm being discriminatory, but I feel like the Khajiit should have the reduced fall damage for being feline oriented.

Instead of a Max Stamina increased on Khajiit, have it as Stamina Cost Reduction by 2/4/6% on spells and abilities.

Bosmer traditionally have the "Right of Theft" mantra should have the pick pocket bonus instead.

Can Argonian's quick to mend do both effects? 2/4/6% healing done and 2/4/6% healing received.

Destructive Ancestry and Elemental Talent maybe they should be identical opposites?

Destructive Ancestry: 2/4/6% Fire damage and 1/2/3% Frost and Shock damage.
Elemental Talent: 2/4/6% Shock damage and 1/2/3% Fire and Frost damage.

whiteshadow711jppreub18_ESO

I see the reason for the Khajiit buff where others do not, they are the only race on Live without a Attribute bonus, if the 6% Stamina Attribute bonus is too high, as many have said then they need a Health Attribute bonus of atleast 3% or more.

Something like 1/3/5% to health for a Attribute bonus I believe would be fair.

NBrookus

ADarklore wrote: »

NBrookus wrote: »

As a magicka race, Bretons are very weak now. Take back the 1% AP bonus and give us a small boost to spell damage or spell crit.

Well thankfully you'll now be able to change your race to Altmer. But I do think that many Breton players may argue with you about them being very weak... in fact, I've read many statements on how Bretons make the best Magicka Templars... and as we all know, everyone complains about them and their 'Jesus Beam'.

I meant they will be, if this foes through as-is. They will be, comparatively, a fairly weak choice compared to Argonian healers or Altmers/Dunmers for damaged focused magicka classes. Nor will they have passives strong enough to suggest they will be a good choice for tanks.

I like my Breton Templar and probably won't change him for the sake of min-maxxing... but +1% AP is a terrible passive.

Arato

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

This is the official feedback thread for the Racial Passive balance changes coming with Update 11. Specific feedback that the team is looking for includes the following:

• What do you think about the changes?
• Are there any that you feel are too strong compared to the others? Too weak?
• Did you encounter any issues with the new Racial Passive changes?
• Are the changes going to make you change your character's race? If so, why?
• Are the changes going to encourage you to adjust your current build? If so, how?

Well, I have an Argonian tank. Argonians used to be an alright tank race because they had a bonus to incoming healing, had an increase to healing from potions, and had a health bonus.

With the change to quick to mend it kind of takes away a good chunk of what made them decent as a tank race. I'm not a healer, it's a DK So now I have a heavy armor specialized tank DK, who is race argonian and has a name that would only suit an argonian. It feels like you are trying to rip me off by making me pay for a race change and name change simultaneously, after YOU did a sweeping change to how the race works making it not suitable for the role I had used it for before.

So I'm pretty mad about this. Consider giving out a limited time free race and name change with the patch. People shouldn't be paying through the nose based on changes you made.

Arato

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

and any Argonian tanks are quite furious with them.

PlagueMonk

First off I would say its a bit difficult to gauge exactly what the changes are since all you do is list the changes and not the overall adjusted package. I would highly recommend retooling the original post to show what each race should look like with the adjustments.

Khajiit - only comment here is, their fluff ability should be, "lands on feet"- takes less damage from a fall.

Argonians - I absolutely HATE the proposed changes. You are basically taking away a general "good" ability that benefits all lizards (healing received) and giving it to ONLY a specific build type, healer. You got some benefit regardless of weather you were a DK, Temp, Sorc or NB, now only healers get it which is complete crap and pigeonholes the race and gimps all NON-healer Argonians FURTHER (since this is considered our powerful ability)

I would also like to know why you insist that Argonians are a super healing race when from your own history they are not. Per lore they are more thieves, assassins, and the like.

"Enigmatic and intelligent, the Argonians are experts of guerrilla tactics, and their natural abilities suit their swampy homeland. They have developed immunities to diseases that have plagued many would-be explorers in the region, and they are capable of easily exploring underwater locations due to their ability to breathe water. Argonians also have some resistance to poison."

"The Argonians' stealth and lockpicking make them brilliant assassins, thieves, scouts, and ambushers. Their lack of combat bonuses in archery and one-handed weapons can be overcome by natural skill leveling and play. Argonians can be used fairly well as spellswords, but conjuration training may be necessary. They can also be useful mage-thieves due to their skills in both magic and stealth, though one may want some illusion training."

"They are known as the foremost experts in guerrilla warfare throughout the Starry Heart, a reputation brought upon them by defending their borders from enemies for countless centuries. Argonians have a lifespan similar to that of humans. According to the First Era Scholar Brendan the Persistent “the Argonian people have, throughout Tamrielic history, been perhaps the most misunderstood, vilified, and reviled of all the sentient races. Yet, those who have taken the time to experience Argonian culture have gained a greater appreciation for this noble and beautiful people". However, it should be noted that he himself went missing in his final expedition into the deeper swamps of their homeland."

"The Shadowscales are an order of Argonian assassins originating in Black Marsh. Argonians born under the sign of the Shadow are taken at birth and offered to the Dark Brotherhood where they are trained in the arts of stealth and assassination. Any Shadowscale who lives to come of age is accepted into the Dark Brotherhood as a full member of the family. They may also leave the Brotherhood and return to Black Marsh to serve the Argonian people. They act with impunity there, and some serve as personal assassins to the King of Black Marsh."

Over and over and OVER I read these things about Argonians but I have yet to see a SINGLE of these supposedly iconic traits become part of ESO Argonian racials. Where are our stealthy abilities?, Where is our scaly hide represented? Why are we not guerrilla experts?

Now I'm not saying that Argonians are devoid of magic ability because they do have historically get alchemical bonuses and illusion abilities but both play into the above abilities.

Not happy about the little I have gained in the recent patches being stripped from me because I don't play a healer.

Nifty2g

Ajaxduo wrote: »

I think it would be fair to request magic damage % to be added to Breton's Spell Resistance passive.

Breaks lore to do that

wayfarerx

Arato wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

and any Argonian tanks are quite furious with them.

Well, for self-healing magicka tanks these changes are a slight buff, but for any other kind of tank I can see how this would hurt. Just be sure you always run with an Argonian healer and you should not notice too much of a difference

CP5

Want to chime in about the khajiit racial change. I am not a fan of this, not only because khajiit are fine in the damage department, but that the health regen also gives AD a 'tank' race and adds to the race being one to engage, recover, and go back. I want my khajiit to keep the health regen/stam regen passive, it was a general buff that i felt fit them well, and I really don't want to see what the damage is in terms of lost health regen.

PlagueMonk

I have posted this multiple times over the last couple years but feel now more than ever with Zenimax trying to pigeonhole Argonians into healers this idea needs to be used in some way becasue this race balance will most likely be long term.

I was thinking about how the current racials in general pigeonhole races into certain classes/builds and think they should be re-tooled instead with options so one could tailor their race to have at least some sync with the class/build you would like to play.

To that end I would like to propose the following (using Argonians as an example):

- Ditch "Xxxxxx Expertise" - I put pts into this originally because I didn't know better but have long since specced out of it. This ability only helps very select builds and ONLY until you are lvl 50, then it's useless. These expertise racials I am pretty sure no one really uses.

- The first level in all options is FREE. It's what the race is. You don't have to spend points on them, you start with them.

- You are then allowed to spend 6 pts on upgrades across the 5 options (with possible lvl gating for the +2 options)

Amphibian Physiology:
(*) Increases swimming speed by 50%
(+1) Reduces potion cool-down by 5 seconds and returns 5% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina when a potion is consumed.
(+2) Reduces potion cool-down by 10 seconds and returns 10% of your Max Health, Magicka, and Stamina when a potion is consumed.

Argonian Fitness:
(*) Increases Max Health by 3%
(+1) Increases Max Health by 6%.
(+2) Increases Max Health by 9%.

Argonian Hardiness:
(*) Increases Poison /Disease Resistance by 375. Increase Physical Resistance by 1000
(+1) Increases Poison /Disease Resistance by 750. Increase Physical Resistance by 2000. (must be lvl 20 to invest)
(+2) Increases Poison /Disease Resistance by 1500. Increase Physical Resistance by 4000. (must be 40 to invest)

Gift of the Hist:
(*) Increases healing received by 5%.
(+1) Increases healing received by 10% and health regeneration by 10%.
(+2) Increases healing received by 15% and health regeneration by 20%

Guerrilla Warfare Expertise:
(*) Increases speed while stealthed by 10%
(+1) Increases speed while stealthed by 15% and stamina/magicka regeneration by 10% while in stealth.
(+2) Increases speed while stealthed by 20% and stamina/magicka regeneration by 20% while in stealth.

* = Free

THIS reflects Argonian lore. I would also not be opposed to re-etooling something to allow better healing. At least with this option idea I could focus on other racial skills.

Miszou

I'd just like to echo what others have said about the Argonian changes to healing,

I have 3 Argonians, none of them are healers and all of them will suffer to various degrees if the healing trait is changed.

Stop trying to pigeonhole Argonians into a healing role. This change only benefits healers and other players. It does absolutely nothing for non-healing builds and actually makes things harder.

Healing received is a very nice passive. It may not be as desired as some of the other passives, but it has purpose and is generally useful. Healing done is only useful for healers - no DPS wants a skill that only benefits healers. And no tank wants it either.

Solariken

I only have two qualms with the changes:

First, I really hope you reconsider/change the Breton AP bonus - this affects leaderboards and emperorship. No player should have an AP advantage.

Second, I am very surprised (and disappointed) that Red Diamond was not buffed for Imperials. Don't get me wrong, it isn't a terrible passive, but it is very situational and relatively weak compared to the Nord incoming damage reduction or the Orc bundle, for example. I hope you evaluate RD and perhaps add something to it - a 1/2/3% incoming damage reduction or a small damage proc or reduced break free cost, or anything really. Again, it's not terrible, just very lackluster.

Ajaxduo

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ajaxduo wrote: »

I think it would be fair to request magic damage % to be added to Breton's Spell Resistance passive.

Breaks lore to do that

Good point, maybe a passive that procs magicka restore upon taking spell damage or something similar? That would be nice, maybe add a small magicka regeneration buff to spell erosion. I see Altmers requesting for magic damage to be given to them, maybe they could integrate it into elemental expert?

Nifty2g

Ajaxduo wrote: »

Nifty2g wrote: »

Ajaxduo wrote: »

I think it would be fair to request magic damage % to be added to Breton's Spell Resistance passive.

Breaks lore to do that

Good point, maybe a passive that procs magicka restore upon taking spell damage or something similar? That would be nice, maybe add a small magicka regeneration buff to spell erosion. I see Altmers requesting for magic damage to be given to them, maybe they could integrate it into elemental expert?

Yeah, reduce Altmers to 3% and add magic damage into them.
Make Bretons the magicka equivalent to Redguard. But it's unlikely these will happen.

I think it is HIGHLY impractical to give a passive that is almost meaningless to a lot of people probably playing a Breton. A passive to increase AP gained?

We need a Magic Damage passive though

WreckfulAbandon

My Breton is gonna flood the market with AP thanks to these changes

Arato

wayfarerx wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

wayfarerx wrote: »

As you are probably well aware, the Argonian healer community is quite happy with you today ZOS. Thanks.

and any Argonian tanks are quite furious with them.

Well, for self-healing magicka tanks these changes are a slight buff, but for any other kind of tank I can see how this would hurt. Just be sure you always run with an Argonian healer and you should not notice too much of a difference

Except that it'd do me better to race change to orc and then have that argonian healer, bigger health bonus, and incoming healing bonus.

It's a change that breaks the character as it currently is and will cost me more crowns to fix because I have an Argonian name, which won't fit any other race.

I took a look the only healing skill I use as a DK tank regularly is dragon blood which is a % heal and doesn't benefit from incoming or outgoing healing increases. Sometimes I may use draw essence but that is healing based on damage you deal, so I don't think healing modifiers effect that either.

The skills it would benefit, flame lash and obsidian shard, I don't use in PVE tanking.

Mimeq

I would change Breton's passive "Magicka Mastery" to be 2/4/6% instead of 1/2/3% since High Elf's passive "Spellcharge" gives 9% regen, they clearly has an advantage since 1 piece of light armor gives 3% reduction cost (breton's passive) and 4% of regen (less than half of High elf's passive), 2 pieces of light armor gives 8% of regen, and this is even less than the 9% regen that high elves has.

It's not fair