Cheating and Exploits

Grao

KramUzibra wrote: »

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Grao wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@KramUzibra I kinda understand where your coming from but this is the part where a player asks himself "Whats the point of seige engines if we can just jump the wall?" then it comes to mind its an exploit and realize that you wouldn't want armys of DKs, Nightblades, or even both leaping over the gate.

Grappling hooks and ladders existed in the medieval times and still siege engines were used, so your argument makes no sense. Gap closers like Silver Leash, Teleport Strike and Dragon Leap are perfect examples of abilities that from their looks and described effect, should be able to gap close players on to the top of a wall.

Sure, grappling hooks and ladders existed in medieval times.

One little point of note is that they didn't allow you to enter a castle in .1 seconds.

Hey, I don't disagree, they have to fix gap closers. What I am saying is that while ZOS is not able to fix the problem and since they are not willing to both advertise this problem with Gap Closers to every player and punish players violating their TOS, they should simply allow the use of this particular exploit.

KramUzibra wrote: »

Bucket666 wrote: »

So after roughly 3 weeks of absence i noticed zero has changed. The same cheaters are blocking the ladders.
That means i stop playing this game now.

i have 3 "theories now to offer:
1. the video posting cheaters are friends with some Zenimaxx employer and convince them that they are playing fair
2. Zenimax does not care at all if people like me stop playing their game (very likely since they give zero information and dont perma ban anyone)
3. Zenimax is completely helpless and the cheaters are just smarter than their best software "experts"

I'll go with Theory number 4.

4. @Bucket666 perspective may differ from Zenimax and they may not view certain actions as cheating. Zenimax cares so much about there players that they keep all disciplinary actions confidential to respect individuals privacy. They treat each situation on a case-by-case basis and in regards to certain circumstances they may show leniency.

I don't quite agree with you. I think Zenimax does see using gap closers to get into keeps as cheating, but they are not willing to punish players doing it because of the back lash, both monetary and to their image. Banning players loses them money, banning a lot of players will lose them a lot of money and banning a player for taking advantage of a bug they knowingly inserted into the game over a month ago? It doesn't look good.

Not speaking about Gap closing in particular. some players still view animation cancelling as cheating and Zenimax has accepted and support AC as a part of the game. Just because certain people view something as cheating doesn't make it so.

Ah, that... Just players being silly because they can't do animation canceling properly. It was already declared as an accepted mechanics.

KramUzibra

Bucket666 wrote: »

To add something i am not talking about gap closers, animation cancelling or whatever silly in game mechanic you guys are complaining about. I am talking about external software that manipulates the game. Look in the videos. See when they forget to refresh abilties and still keep the magicka and health regen up. See them not blocking and getting like half the damage they should get. Some of these guys are good players no doubt. But whats happens when a good players cheats ? right a ridiculous high score and an odd video that does not add up.

I'm sorry my mistake. Those types of players definitely need to be punished to the fullest!

Freymaker

Wow! Long thread, decided to check it out and only read a bit. I had no idea there was such an issue with cheating, and here I am on a PC where I could have used it too! Oh well, guess just doing it the right way and leveling over the long haul without cheats makes me naive. Would help in Cyrodiil where it seems to take forever to move up the ranks and now with this whole champion instead of Veteran ranking scheme I have no idea if the guy kicking my butt is lower or higher level but either way, my butt gets kicked. Fortunately I can respawn and get right back to it pretty quickly, and die again, but sometimes I win and my siege engines help. At least it's not as bad as dying in WOW. It's got that going for it. So, it would be kinda nice to have something that lets players know that people are being caught and sanctioned for this kind of activity but then again, since I've made no secret of the fact that I'll be moving on to No Man's Sky when it (finally) releases August 9th, I can only hope it all works out over here. Who knows, I might come back and visit the game in a year or so.

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO

Lava_Croft wrote: »

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kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

^^^^ Too long don't read?

You can't ban players for powers being buggy.

Using Teleport Strike to bypass doors has been a confirmed exploit by ZOS for quite a while already. The health of a game does not solely depend on the developers, but about just as much on the players. A lot of these horrible exploiting/cheating issues would not exist if players weren't such terrible characters. Instead, ESO has a culture of exploiting and cheating that has been nurtured since release, both by ZOS and the players.

Not saying it not an exploit when you do it on purpose. But it does on it's own a lot. You gap close a guy a hair too late and he gets in the door and so do you.

ZoS will ban anyone that bypasses a door and they will have no idea as to who is exploiting and when it just happens. With all gap closers teleporting bans will be handed out left and right.

KramUzibra

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

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Lava_Croft wrote: »

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

^^^^ Too long don't read?

You can't ban players for powers being buggy.

Using Teleport Strike to bypass doors has been a confirmed exploit by ZOS for quite a while already. The health of a game does not solely depend on the developers, but about just as much on the players. A lot of these horrible exploiting/cheating issues would not exist if players weren't such terrible characters. Instead, ESO has a culture of exploiting and cheating that has been nurtured since release, both by ZOS and the players.

Not saying it not an exploit when you do it on purpose. But it does on it's own a lot. You gap close a guy a hair too late and he gets in the door and so do you.

ZoS will ban anyone that bypasses a door and they will have no idea as to who is exploiting and when it just happens. With all gap closers teleporting bans will be handed out left and right.

I sure hope not.

Elsonso

kendellking_chaosb14_ESO wrote: »

ZoS will ban anyone that bypasses a door and they will have no idea as to who is exploiting and when it just happens. With all gap closers teleporting bans will be handed out left and right.

I don't think it will be even close to as widespread as you make it out to be.

DUTCH_REAPER

Was in Cyro today down by Roe. AD owned it and this DC guy was gap closing the guards by the FD. I killed the guard before he could complete his attempt and he started yelling at me to stop killing guards hahaha. He completed the bypass of the keep wall on the second guard.....I got him on Shadowplay. Waiting for it to load up to send it in to ZOS.
So tired of the trash in this game.
#score

ola.wilhelmssonb16_ESO

I really think ZOS needs to put a "reminder" in the launcher and in load screen texts, stating that using gap closers to by-pass keep walls and gates, in Cyrodiil, is a violation of the ToS. It would also be nice to get some kind of confirmation here, from ZOS, that "wall-jumping" is still considered an exploit. (Maybe there is just that somewhere above, but this thread is such a "mega-tome" by now, it's hard to find. Is there filter, or search function, that lets me see only official ZOS-replies?)

There are plenty of players that never visit these forums and may very well be oblivious to the fact that "wall-jumping" is an un-intended bug/exploit. Think about it: If you never read these forums, play the game, discover that you can use your gap-closers to get inside keeps and see a lot of other players do it, you would logically assume that it's allowed.

When I asked a couple of guild mates to report a gap-closer-exploiter, about a week ago, they were surprised to hear that it was still considered an exploit. They simply thought that since it was so prevalent and frequent, Zenimax had decided to allow jumping walls with gap closers. (One of these guild mates have, just like me, been playing since beta and early access, the other for well over a year.)

Animal_Mother

Grao wrote: »

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KramUzibra wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

rfennell_ESO wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

Whatzituyah wrote: »

@KramUzibra I kinda understand where your coming from but this is the part where a player asks himself "Whats the point of seige engines if we can just jump the wall?" then it comes to mind its an exploit and realize that you wouldn't want armys of DKs, Nightblades, or even both leaping over the gate.

Grappling hooks and ladders existed in the medieval times and still siege engines were used, so your argument makes no sense. Gap closers like Silver Leash, Teleport Strike and Dragon Leap are perfect examples of abilities that from their looks and described effect, should be able to gap close players on to the top of a wall.

Sure, grappling hooks and ladders existed in medieval times.

One little point of note is that they didn't allow you to enter a castle in .1 seconds.

Hey, I don't disagree, they have to fix gap closers. What I am saying is that while ZOS is not able to fix the problem and since they are not willing to both advertise this problem with Gap Closers to every player and punish players violating their TOS, they should simply allow the use of this particular exploit.

KramUzibra wrote: »

Bucket666 wrote: »

So after roughly 3 weeks of absence i noticed zero has changed. The same cheaters are blocking the ladders.
That means i stop playing this game now.

i have 3 "theories now to offer:
1. the video posting cheaters are friends with some Zenimaxx employer and convince them that they are playing fair
2. Zenimax does not care at all if people like me stop playing their game (very likely since they give zero information and dont perma ban anyone)
3. Zenimax is completely helpless and the cheaters are just smarter than their best software "experts"

I'll go with Theory number 4.

4. @Bucket666 perspective may differ from Zenimax and they may not view certain actions as cheating. Zenimax cares so much about there players that they keep all disciplinary actions confidential to respect individuals privacy. They treat each situation on a case-by-case basis and in regards to certain circumstances they may show leniency.

I don't quite agree with you. I think Zenimax does see using gap closers to get into keeps as cheating, but they are not willing to punish players doing it because of the back lash, both monetary and to their image. Banning players loses them money, banning a lot of players will lose them a lot of money and banning a player for taking advantage of a bug they knowingly inserted into the game over a month ago? It doesn't look good.

Not speaking about Gap closing in particular. some players still view animation cancelling as cheating and Zenimax has accepted and support AC as a part of the game. Just because certain people view something as cheating doesn't make it so.

Ah, that... Just players being silly because they can't do animation canceling properly. It was already declared as an accepted mechanics.

AC is an interesting subject. I use it all the time using bow, but it seems that eventhough ZOS has said it is part of the game, they are taking steps to eliminate it by redoing their animations. It's almost as if ZOS was painted into a corner with animation cancelling and didn't have the means to fix it at the time so they stated it was "working as intended" and now they are slowly making it harder to do.

---

What exactly is the function of the PTS, if the devs are going to ignore the bugs that we find on it? There's no way a bug like gap closing into a keep would have made it past any other devs in any other mmo. Yet ZOS still hasn't fixed it.

Elsonso

Animal_Mother wrote: »

AC is an interesting subject. I use it all the time using bow, but it seems that eventhough ZOS has said it is part of the game, they are taking steps to eliminate it by redoing their animations. It's almost as if ZOS was painted into a corner with animation cancelling and didn't have the means to fix it at the time so they stated it was "working as intended" and now they are slowly making it harder to do.

Well, I think that animation canceling was not intended but they decided to keep it, and call it weaving, because the alternative was worse.

As I understand it, they are not making it harder, but making it easier to see what actions are being taken by not canceling the animation before a certain point. They claim that the damage is still happening at the same time, but what is seen on the screen looks different.

One problem I have with animation canceling is that sometimes I can't tell whether an action fired, but the animation was not seen, or whether server lag has resulted in the action not happening (or happening much later than expected). With the new priority, I see actions happening later than I expect, again maybe because of lag and maybe because of the animation delay.

If they removed animation canceling then they would have to have a global cool down on all skills equal to the duration of the animation, and that would make combat feel like Skyrim. Sluggish. People would complain.

Zaldan

Eclipse0990 wrote: »

I also saw a few reds breaking down the corner of the keep(to find new exploit maybe?) on ebony blade PC EU. Duly reported for suspicious behaviour.

in the past I've seen the corner wall destroyed and no rubble to block the opening allowing players to walk in, no idea if thats happening again

Elsonso

Oops... I was going to answer this, too...

Animal_Mother wrote: »

What exactly is the function of the PTS, if the devs are going to ignore the bugs that we find on it? There's no way a bug like gap closing into a keep would have made it past any other devs in any other mmo. Yet ZOS still hasn't fixed it.

Even though "PTS" has the T for Test in it, it probably best to think of it, not as part of QA, but as part of Development.

The purpose is not to find bugs, errors, or exploits, but to help the Development team tune the game before release. They certainly accept bug reports from people during PTS, but the goal is not for players to identify and report bugs so that they can be fixed prior to release. The goal is to get game play feedback so that they can tweak designs before release.

Take a look at the questions they ask people to answer when a new update hits the PTS. That will tell you what the goal of PTS is.

Rohamad_Ali

I don't understand why ZOS doesn't have or has a better alpha testing team . Last phase alpha should be for finding game breaking bugs and making last minute repairs before sending anything to test server beta group . Every testing I've been apart of wants first round glitch tests in beta along with performance evaluations . This is the first game I've been apart of testing where the purpose eludes me .

ZOS tests seem more focused towards marketing then performance . Questions like "How do you like the new dye color Scheme?" are fine but never apart of any quality control purposes of testing servers I've been apart of ... It's completely used for something that could of been handled in a public opinion poll . Just really strange use of testing time .

Elsonso

Roehamad_Ali wrote: »

I don't understand why ZOS doesn't have or has a better alpha testing team . Last phase alpha should be for finding game breaking bugs and making last minute repairs before sending anything to test server beta group .

ZOS tests seem more focused towards marketing then performance . Questions like "How do you like the new dye color Scheme?" are fine but never apart of any quality control purposes of testing servers I've been apart of ... It's completely used for something that could of been handled in a public opinion poll . Just really strange use of testing time .

The ZOS QA team is probably run like any business. They have a budget and when they hit that budget they stop hiring. Everything they do is constrained by whatever they are willing to spend on the QA team. The QA team has a fixed bandwidth. If they are running a zero sum business, adding a QA tester means that somewhere else they have to cut someone.

PTS should not be for players to be finding game breaking bugs. That work should have been done by QA, and those things fixed, before even getting to PTS. The quests should work. The skills should do what they are supposed to do. The dungeons, trials, and dolmens should be working. All the new features of the game should be working. More importantly, all the existing things in the game should still work. Our job should be to provide feedback on these new things, and we should not be fighting our way through bugs to do it.

Players are the worst testers for finding bugs. There is little organization or coordination and have no idea how to properly report bugs. The players are stumbling across bugs more by accident than anything else. QA probably spends far too much time trying to figure out what the player is saying. That is a horrible way to test anything.

Hempyre

I watched an ep stam sorc silver leash himself into bleaks, and then several times into ales. He had a very high cp count, which tells me he's played for awhile. I didn't report him, but I think It's pretty *** to use an exploit like this.

When there were dupe bugs, and portable merchant bugs everyone using them new outright it wasnt supposed to work like that, this is no different.

There is no excuse for using this exploit. It doesn't matter if you read the forums or not, you know it's an unintended mechanic and an exploit. You dont exist in a vacuum, you have been informed in one fashion or another.

Games break, this one especially, with the constant new content and changes we get. Just because it went live doesn't make it ok to use. The devs have a long to do list, and clearly are having an issue with gap closers.

The excuse to use it because it's there does not alleviate your personal responsibility on this issue. You're cheating, and you know it. Like any cheats and exploits if you get caught, you pay the price.

Just for the record, I'm not against having a wall climb skill, I think it fits in the context of pvp. I just dont like cheaters.

drumbendrum_ESO

Does anyone feel right now when they PvP that they are fighting equal battles?

I hear a lot of guild mates talk about people and how the cheat, and even have open discussions with the cheaters about what they are doing. The consensus seems to be that they don't care cause bans were lifted and they can continue doing what they do.

This doesn't just effect PvP though. What about guild traders dealing with exploits and cheats allowing players to farm and flood the market with an immoral process of obtaining goods.

Cheaters need to be addressed and not just a slap on the semi ban, make it perma. I remember clearly the days of ffxi, my first mmo dealing with botters farming NM's. It was an argueous process to get anything good for yourself cause botters were involved in anything and everything that makes money.

Set the example and fix the game, it's clear to everyone how much potential this game has but it has yet to meet those expectations and the cheaters allowed to continue in Tamerial is another nail in the coffin.

Sincerely
-Fong

KramUzibra

Dred76 wrote: »

I watched an ep stam sorc silver leash himself into bleaks, and then several times into ales. He had a very high cp count, which tells me he's played for awhile. I didn't report him, but I think It's pretty *** to use an exploit like this.

When there were dupe bugs, and portable merchant bugs everyone using them new outright it wasnt supposed to work like that, this is no different.

There is no excuse for using this exploit. It doesn't matter if you read the forums or not, you know it's an unintended mechanic and an exploit. You dont exist in a vacuum, you have been informed in one fashion or another.

Games break, this one especially, with the constant new content and changes we get. Just because it went live doesn't make it ok to use. The devs have a long to do list, and clearly are having an issue with gap closers.

The excuse to use it because it's there does not alleviate your personal responsibility on this issue. You're cheating, and you know it. Like any cheats and exploits if you get caught, you pay the price.

Just for the record, I'm not against having a wall climb skill, I think it fits in the context of pvp. I just dont like cheaters.

Sure certain gap closers like critical rush or sheld charge looks silly and is obvious it shouldn't work like that. However dragon leap sounds and looks like you should be able to leap up a keep wall. Dks chain sure sound and looks like u should be able to pull your self up a wall. After all the description says "if the target cannot be moved the chain pulls you to the Target" Same goes for teleport strike, you are teleporting! How do you know these players have been informed that gap closing is an exploit? As far as i know zenimax has only made is official on the forums and eso live. Also Perception is subject to the individual u can't possibly know how everyone thinks.

qrichou

Hee , neighbour you always leave your door unlocked.

I know its broken .

Hee neighbour why is the police arresting that man who took your stuff from your house ?
I told you a month ago you door was open.

REALLY GUY 'S .
use your brains better

shadowwraith666

Using teleport strike/werewolf pounce or chains is not cheating, their mechanics are working as intended, if people have a problems with them in pvp then perhaps those skills should be disabled in pvp.

KramUzibra

drumbendrum_ESO wrote: »

Does anyone feel right now when they PvP that they are fighting equal battles?

I hear a lot of guild mates talk about people and how the cheat, and even have open discussions with the cheaters about what they are doing. The consensus seems to be that they don't care cause bans were lifted and they can continue doing what they do.

This doesn't just effect PvP though. What about guild traders dealing with exploits and cheats allowing players to farm and flood the market with an immoral process of obtaining goods.

Cheaters need to be addressed and not just a slap on the semi ban, make it perma. I remember clearly the days of ffxi, my first mmo dealing with botters farming NM's. It was an argueous process to get anything good for yourself cause botters were involved in anything and everything that

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qrichou wrote: »

Hee , neighbour you always leave your door unlocked.

I know its broken .

Hee neighbour why is the police arresting that man who took your stuff from your house ?
I told you a month ago you door was open.

REALLY GUY 'S .
use your brains better

Not comprable to gap closing exploit

Lord_Eomer

shadowwraith666 wrote: »

Using teleport strike/werewolf pounce or chains is not cheating, their mechanics are working as intended, if people have a problems with them in pvp then perhaps those skills should be disabled in pvp.

Disabling is not a solution, they should get damage if trying to enter unless keeps walls are not fell.

Barbet

People shouldn't exploit broken gear or skills. Punishing people using these things can be put on hold.

Until people using/used a third party cheat are actually permanently band from ever playing this game again, talking about punishing people for exploiting stuff that ZoS knows about and has not fixed doesn't mean a damn thing.

They can not permanently band people using a third party cheat what makes you think they will punish people for exploiting their game?

I do know being witness to someone using a speed hack and then t-bagging victims will get you a 3 day suspension. For not reporting the hacker and for sexual harassment. And that it can be retrospective.

I do know they say they are putting in anti cheat measures. They have also said that permanent bands will start happening at their discursion, but they also said they fixed the congratulations your champ 160 spam mails in their last patch...

I stand firm when I say permanently banded has to mean permanently band. Until it does, discussing exploits is just a waste of breath.

KingMagaw

Had 4 DC gap closed through the top of Bleakers yesterday. More were trying. Just shows no-one takes Zenimax seriously when they flap their gums about cheaters and there weak stance.

Should i squander more of my time to police there game for them in which i maintain a sub?, No thanks, i decline and cancel sub.

terrordactyl1971

I've seen a few players on PS4 turning in circles endlessly. They're obviously not there, as when I passed by an hour or two later their character is still turning on the spot in circles.

I assume they've done something with their controller sticks to stay online.

But, for what purpose?

Elsonso

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

I've seen a few players on PS4 turning in circles endlessly. They're obviously not there, as when I passed by an hour or two later their character is still turning on the spot in circles.

I assume they've done something with their controller sticks to stay online.

But, for what purpose?

AFK for more than the 15 minutes (or so) it takes before the game logs you our for inactivity?

BackFreckle

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

I've seen a few players on PS4 turning in circles endlessly. They're obviously not there, as when I passed by an hour or two later their character is still turning on the spot in circles.

I assume they've done something with their controller sticks to stay online.

But, for what purpose?

It's just what some people do, it's called rubber banding or rubber banding your controller. The purpose is what you stated, to stay online

Crom_CCCXVI

I always assumed Gap Closers were working as they were supposed too...?
Who cares if someone can get onto the wall of a keep? They are by themselves, they are going to end up dead anyway.
We allow nightblades to hide in keeps then pop out when people leave, that is more a problem than crying because a DK leaped onto a low wall because a defender was within range.

I personally am not set up to do any gap closers that get me in like that, but couldn't care less if my opponents do either. Way too much crying here.
I play 20+ hours of PvP per week and have yet to find that mystical unbeatable group that everyone thinks exist every time they lose a fight.

Way more concerned about the farming, and dungeon exploits than anything combat related.

shadowwraith666

terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

I've seen a few players on PS4 turning in circles endlessly. They're obviously not there, as when I passed by an hour or two later their character is still turning on the spot in circles.

I assume they've done something with their controller sticks to stay online.

But, for what purpose?

that's nothing new, i used to do similar things in Oblivion to get sneak and athletics up.

Ackwalan

shadowwraith666 wrote: »

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terrordactyl1971 wrote: »

I've seen a few players on PS4 turning in circles endlessly. They're obviously not there, as when I passed by an hour or two later their character is still turning on the spot in circles.

I assume they've done something with their controller sticks to stay online.

But, for what purpose?

that's nothing new, i used to do similar things in Oblivion to get sneak and athletics up.

It is regarded differently in a multi player game then a single player game. In a multi player game it is considered as AFK playing and is an exploit. Additionally, in PvP you are taking up limited space on a campaign.

Vangy

Got to hand it to ZOS. Take attention away from un-banning all those hackers by letting gap-close to keep walls exist. I find it highly unlikely that something so blatant is taking so long to fix. My conspiracy theory tin-foil hat QQ is that they want us to rage about this to make us forget all about those CE hackers who got unbanned. Discuss.