Cheating and Exploits
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KramUzibra✭✭✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »A lot of players from console have come accustomed to utilizing exploits until the game's manufacturer prevents them from doing so. once zos makes it undeniably clear to all I'll agree with some sort of disciplinary actions until then I'm going to continue arguing my point
Not saying it's ok just providing perspective as to why so many console players continuously utilize these abilities in the way they do.0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »A lot of players from console have come accustomed to utilizing exploits until the game's manufacturer prevents them from doing so. once zos makes it undeniably clear to all I'll agree with some sort of disciplinary actions until then I'm going to continue arguing my point
Not saying it's ok just providing perspective as to why so many console players continuously utilize these abilities in the way they do.
No matter how much you try arguing with them, it will be pointless. They will not concede to any reasonable argument as their mind is made up on the subject and they completely lack the ability to put them selves in another player's position.
Zenimax is not properly communicating with their community and utilizing only the Forums and the ESO Live because they want any players that get reported for this particular infraction to have an excuse not to be banned. It is that simple, but instead of pressuring the company into acting as they should, nope, better rage at players that can reason out what ZOS is doing and that proposing alternatives.2 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »I have ZERO sympathy for people who can't be bothered to learn the rules of the game they play. Laziness isn't an excuse for cheating. I'm so sick of this tired scenario being drug out over and over by people who have almost certainly been using gap closers as an exploit to somehow lessen the impact on themselves in case ZOS is starting to really crack down.
Done.With.It.
I agree however after reading the rules myself i have discovered that the rules say nothing in specific to gap closing or when and where it is acceptable to use them. Sure you can use the argument that the rules say utilizing exploits is against teso and zos has stated on the forums that gap closing to scale keep walls is an exploit thus gap closing is against teso. However it must be made clear to all including those who do not participate on the forums so they know better. Also dks dragon leap is also in violation of teso since it can be used to bypass siege mechanics to gain entry into a keep. I guess every dk that uses this ability in such away also deserves to be banned?
Of course they don't specifically say that gap closing is illegal in the rules. They don't have to. They SPECIFICALLY state that using a BUG or some sort of glitch for personal gain is categorically against the rules. It's an all encompassing rule. Yes, it requires that you can think and process information and have some rudimentary system of personal right and wrong, but cover it it does.
Just like speeding. They don't have to state what type of vehicle that you're using while speeding. You can speed in a car, truck, bike, motorcycle, moped, or whatever you happen to be behind the wheel or handlebars of.
Haha proved my point just like it's the cities responsibility to clearly display the speed limit multiple times on every street. it is also zos responsibility to make it clear that gap closing is against teso to the entire player base. Again not all players are on the forum accounts, not all players know this is against the rules most players I play with treat this similarly to the dks dragonleap. Alot of players from console have come accustomed to utilizing exploits until the game's manufacturer prevents them from doing so. once zos makes it undeniably clear to all I'll agree with some sort of disciplinary actions until then I'm going to continue arguing my point. Maybe if they put a notice in the start up screen where everyone can see it prior to logging in.
You are trying way to hard to justify cheating. It is exploiting to enter an enemy keep without knocking down a wall or a door. Make all the excuses you want, no one will believe you.
Not justification. I realise it's wrong and against the rules I know this because Im on the forums. Iv asked multiple players on console if they know this is against the rules all but maybe two or three know this and they only know this through word of the mouth. It's simple logic, how do u expect people to not break the rules when you don't tell them. Referring to the rules is not enough since they do not specify gap closing as an exploit. When I dragon leap from the outer keep wall to the inner keep building am I violating teso since this ability bypasses certain game mechanics. Is animation cancelling an exploit since it bypasses the animation of the ability to register damage allowing the player to perform multiple moves at an excessive rate to gain an advantage in combat? All I'm saying is these things need to be made clear. Since I'm aware this is an exploit I don't do it. Some players don't read the forums. They do not have to read the forumsforums because they are not obligated to do so. If they don't read the forums how do you expect them to know what actions are considered exploits?
Once again, you are trying real hard to explain away an exploit. Not buying it.
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Whatzituyah✭✭✭✭@KramUzibra I kinda understand where your coming from but this is the part where a player asks himself "Whats the point of seige engines if we can just jump the wall?" then it comes to mind its an exploit and realize that you wouldn't want armys of DKs, Nightblades, or even both leaping over your alliance's walls.Edited by Whatzituyah on July 14, 2016 10:38PMhttps://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
PSN: Whatzituyah3 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »I have ZERO sympathy for people who can't be bothered to learn the rules of the game they play. Laziness isn't an excuse for cheating. I'm so sick of this tired scenario being drug out over and over by people who have almost certainly been using gap closers as an exploit to somehow lessen the impact on themselves in case ZOS is starting to really crack down.
Done.With.It.
I agree however after reading the rules myself i have discovered that the rules say nothing in specific to gap closing or when and where it is acceptable to use them. Sure you can use the argument that the rules say utilizing exploits is against teso and zos has stated on the forums that gap closing to scale keep walls is an exploit thus gap closing is against teso. However it must be made clear to all including those who do not participate on the forums so they know better. Also dks dragon leap is also in violation of teso since it can be used to bypass siege mechanics to gain entry into a keep. I guess every dk that uses this ability in such away also deserves to be banned?
Of course they don't specifically say that gap closing is illegal in the rules. They don't have to. They SPECIFICALLY state that using a BUG or some sort of glitch for personal gain is categorically against the rules. It's an all encompassing rule. Yes, it requires that you can think and process information and have some rudimentary system of personal right and wrong, but cover it it does.
Just like speeding. They don't have to state what type of vehicle that you're using while speeding. You can speed in a car, truck, bike, motorcycle, moped, or whatever you happen to be behind the wheel or handlebars of.
Haha proved my point just like it's the cities responsibility to clearly display the speed limit multiple times on every street. it is also zos responsibility to make it clear that gap closing is against teso to the entire player base. Again not all players are on the forum accounts, not all players know this is against the rules most players I play with treat this similarly to the dks dragonleap. Alot of players from console have come accustomed to utilizing exploits until the game's manufacturer prevents them from doing so. once zos makes it undeniably clear to all I'll agree with some sort of disciplinary actions until then I'm going to continue arguing my point. Maybe if they put a notice in the start up screen where everyone can see it prior to logging in.
You are trying way to hard to justify cheating. It is exploiting to enter an enemy keep without knocking down a wall or a door. Make all the excuses you want, no one will believe you.
Not justification. I realise it's wrong and against the rules I know this because Im on the forums. Iv asked multiple players on console if they know this is against the rules all but maybe two or three know this and they only know this through word of the mouth. It's simple logic, how do u expect people to not break the rules when you don't tell them. Referring to the rules is not enough since they do not specify gap closing as an exploit. When I dragon leap from the outer keep wall to the inner keep building am I violating teso since this ability bypasses certain game mechanics. Is animation cancelling an exploit since it bypasses the animation of the ability to register damage allowing the player to perform multiple moves at an excessive rate to gain an advantage in combat? All I'm saying is these things need to be made clear. Since I'm aware this is an exploit I don't do it. Some players don't read the forums. They do not have to read the forumsforums because they are not obligated to do so. If they don't read the forums how do you expect them to know what actions are considered exploits?
Once again, you are trying real hard to explain away an exploit. Not buying it.
Just my perspective on the matter. Agree to disagree0 -
Ackwalan✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »I have ZERO sympathy for people who can't be bothered to learn the rules of the game they play. Laziness isn't an excuse for cheating. I'm so sick of this tired scenario being drug out over and over by people who have almost certainly been using gap closers as an exploit to somehow lessen the impact on themselves in case ZOS is starting to really crack down.
Done.With.It.
I agree however after reading the rules myself i have discovered that the rules say nothing in specific to gap closing or when and where it is acceptable to use them. Sure you can use the argument that the rules say utilizing exploits is against teso and zos has stated on the forums that gap closing to scale keep walls is an exploit thus gap closing is against teso. However it must be made clear to all including those who do not participate on the forums so they know better. Also dks dragon leap is also in violation of teso since it can be used to bypass siege mechanics to gain entry into a keep. I guess every dk that uses this ability in such away also deserves to be banned?
Of course they don't specifically say that gap closing is illegal in the rules. They don't have to. They SPECIFICALLY state that using a BUG or some sort of glitch for personal gain is categorically against the rules. It's an all encompassing rule. Yes, it requires that you can think and process information and have some rudimentary system of personal right and wrong, but cover it it does.
Just like speeding. They don't have to state what type of vehicle that you're using while speeding. You can speed in a car, truck, bike, motorcycle, moped, or whatever you happen to be behind the wheel or handlebars of.
Haha proved my point just like it's the cities responsibility to clearly display the speed limit multiple times on every street. it is also zos responsibility to make it clear that gap closing is against teso to the entire player base. Again not all players are on the forum accounts, not all players know this is against the rules most players I play with treat this similarly to the dks dragonleap. Alot of players from console have come accustomed to utilizing exploits until the game's manufacturer prevents them from doing so. once zos makes it undeniably clear to all I'll agree with some sort of disciplinary actions until then I'm going to continue arguing my point. Maybe if they put a notice in the start up screen where everyone can see it prior to logging in.
You are trying way to hard to justify cheating. It is exploiting to enter an enemy keep without knocking down a wall or a door. Make all the excuses you want, no one will believe you.
Not justification. I realise it's wrong and against the rules I know this because Im on the forums. Iv asked multiple players on console if they know this is against the rules all but maybe two or three know this and they only know this through word of the mouth. It's simple logic, how do u expect people to not break the rules when you don't tell them. Referring to the rules is not enough since they do not specify gap closing as an exploit. When I dragon leap from the outer keep wall to the inner keep building am I violating teso since this ability bypasses certain game mechanics. Is animation cancelling an exploit since it bypasses the animation of the ability to register damage allowing the player to perform multiple moves at an excessive rate to gain an advantage in combat? All I'm saying is these things need to be made clear. Since I'm aware this is an exploit I don't do it. Some players don't read the forums. They do not have to read the forumsforums because they are not obligated to do so. If they don't read the forums how do you expect them to know what actions are considered exploits?
Once again, you are trying real hard to explain away an exploit. Not buying it.
Just my perspective on the matter. Agree to disagree
Keep looking for those excuses.
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Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Whatzituyah wrote: »@KramUzibra I kinda understand where your coming from but this is the part where a player asks himself "Whats the point of seige engines if we can just jump the wall?" then it comes to mind its an exploit and realize that you wouldn't want armys of DKs, Nightblades, or even both leaping over the gate.
Grappling hooks and ladders existed in the medieval times and still siege engines were used, so your argument makes no sense. Gap closers like Silver Leash, Teleport Strike and Dragon Leap are perfect examples of abilities that from their looks and described effect, should be able to gap close players on to the top of a wall.1 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »A lot of players from console have come accustomed to utilizing exploits until the game's manufacturer prevents them from doing so. once zos makes it undeniably clear to all I'll agree with some sort of disciplinary actions until then I'm going to continue arguing my point
Not saying it's ok just providing perspective as to why so many console players continuously utilize these abilities in the way they do.
No matter how much you try arguing with them, it will be pointless. They will not concede to any reasonable argument as their mind is made up on the subject and they completely lack the ability to put them selves in another player's position.
Zenimax is not properly communicating with their community and utilizing only the Forums and the ESO Live because they want any players that get reported for this particular infraction to have an excuse not to be banned. It is that simple, but instead of pressuring the company into acting as they should, nope, better rage at players that can reason out what ZOS is doing and that proposing alternatives.
You may be right grao however i feel the need to express my opinion on the public forums so that Zenimax will see others perspectives and not just those whom seek to unjustly ban players. My hopes is that though I'm not speaking directly to Zenimax they may over see these messages and perhaps consider my stance on this subject, potentially provide enlightenment. Haha as unlikely as that may seem.0 -
Whatzituyah✭✭✭✭Whatzituyah wrote: »@KramUzibra I kinda understand where your coming from but this is the part where a player asks himself "Whats the point of seige engines if we can just jump the wall?" then it comes to mind its an exploit and realize that you wouldn't want armys of DKs, Nightblades, or even both leaping over the gate.
Grappling hooks and ladders existed in the medieval times and still siege engines were used, so your argument makes no sense. Gap closers like Silver Leash, Teleport Strike and Dragon Leap are perfect examples of abilities that from their looks and described effect, should be able to gap close players on to the top of a wall.
@Grao But would you want DKs and Nightblades leaping over the gate? Also silver leash does it to? Welp not going to Cyrodiil anytime soon.
Lol typo
To add there were defenses for ladders and grappling hooks they were also not instantaneous. Here not really a defense from dragon leaps, teleporting strikes, or silver leash is there?Edited by Whatzituyah on July 14, 2016 10:50PMhttps://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
PSN: Whatzituyah0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭Whatzituyah wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@KramUzibra I kinda understand where your coming from but this is the part where a player asks himself "Whats the point of seige engines if we can just jump the wall?" then it comes to mind its an exploit and realize that you wouldn't want armys of DKs, Nightblades, or even both leaping over the gate.
Grappling hooks and ladders existed in the medieval times and still siege engines were used, so your argument makes no sense. Gap closers like Silver Leash, Teleport Strike and Dragon Leap are perfect examples of abilities that from their looks and described effect, should be able to gap close players on to the top of a wall.
@Grao But would you want DKs and Nightblades leaping over the gate? Also silver leash does it to? Welp not going to Cyrodiil anytime soon.
Lol typo
On the PTS it was doing, but I am not sure if the bug translated to the Live servers. It was funny though.
And would I want DKs and Nightblades jumping over the gate? Probably not if there were no skill other classes could pick up for similar effect. Right now I am against the use of gap closers on to walls because Zenimax has declared it an exploit, but honestly, I'd have preferred if they had allowed everyone to fairly take advantage of this bug until they came up with measures to counter the problem. Right now you have those that know of this matter and choose not to violate the TOS in serious disadvantage against those that don't care about the TOS or don't know or pretend they don't know this is a bug.0 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Whatzituyah wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@KramUzibra I kinda understand where your coming from but this is the part where a player asks himself "Whats the point of seige engines if we can just jump the wall?" then it comes to mind its an exploit and realize that you wouldn't want armys of DKs, Nightblades, or even both leaping over the gate.
Grappling hooks and ladders existed in the medieval times and still siege engines were used, so your argument makes no sense. Gap closers like Silver Leash, Teleport Strike and Dragon Leap are perfect examples of abilities that from their looks and described effect, should be able to gap close players on to the top of a wall.
@Grao But would you want DKs and Nightblades leaping over the gate? Also silver leash does it to? Welp not going to Cyrodiil anytime soon.
Lol typo
Grappling hooks and siege ladders sounds awesome!!1 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Allowing all players an opportunity to perform this action with the addition of siege ladders and grappling hooks would have been pretty cool.0
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Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Good to see they at least implemented the forum PvP justice system. A lot of players wearing guard tabards in here.1 -
Pomaikai✭✭✭✭✭
✭KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »I have ZERO sympathy for people who can't be bothered to learn the rules of the game they play. Laziness isn't an excuse for cheating. I'm so sick of this tired scenario being drug out over and over by people who have almost certainly been using gap closers as an exploit to somehow lessen the impact on themselves in case ZOS is starting to really crack down.
Done.With.It.
I agree however after reading the rules myself i have discovered that the rules say nothing in specific to gap closing or when and where it is acceptable to use them. Sure you can use the argument that the rules say utilizing exploits is against teso and zos has stated on the forums that gap closing to scale keep walls is an exploit thus gap closing is against teso. However it must be made clear to all including those who do not participate on the forums so they know better. Also dks dragon leap is also in violation of teso since it can be used to bypass siege mechanics to gain entry into a keep. I guess every dk that uses this ability in such away also deserves to be banned?
Of course they don't specifically say that gap closing is illegal in the rules. They don't have to. They SPECIFICALLY state that using a BUG or some sort of glitch for personal gain is categorically against the rules. It's an all encompassing rule. Yes, it requires that you can think and process information and have some rudimentary system of personal right and wrong, but cover it it does.
Just like speeding. They don't have to state what type of vehicle that you're using while speeding. You can speed in a car, truck, bike, motorcycle, moped, or whatever you happen to be behind the wheel or handlebars of.
Haha proved my point just like it's the cities responsibility to clearly display the speed limit multiple times on every street. it is also zos responsibility to make it clear that gap closing is against teso to the entire player base. Again not all players are on the forum accounts, not all players know this is against the rules most players I play with treat this similarly to the dks dragonleap. Alot of players from console have come accustomed to utilizing exploits until the game's manufacturer prevents them from doing so. once zos makes it undeniably clear to all I'll agree with some sort of disciplinary actions until then I'm going to continue arguing my point. Maybe if they put a notice in the start up screen where everyone can see it prior to logging in.
You are trying way to hard to justify cheating. It is exploiting to enter an enemy keep without knocking down a wall or a door. Make all the excuses you want, no one will believe you.
Not justification. I realise it's wrong and against the rules I know this because Im on the forums. Iv asked multiple players on console if they know this is against the rules all but maybe two or three know this and they only know this through word of the mouth. It's simple logic, how do u expect people to not break the rules when you don't tell them. Referring to the rules is not enough since they do not specify gap closing as an exploit. When I dragon leap from the outer keep wall to the inner keep building am I violating teso since this ability bypasses certain game mechanics. Is animation cancelling an exploit since it bypasses the animation of the ability to register damage allowing the player to perform multiple moves at an excessive rate to gain an advantage in combat? All I'm saying is these things need to be made clear. Since I'm aware this is an exploit I don't do it. Some players don't read the forums. They do not have to read the forumsforums because they are not obligated to do so. If they don't read the forums how do you expect them to know what actions are considered exploits?
Once again, you are trying real hard to explain away an exploit. Not buying it.
Just my perspective on the matter. Agree to disagree
I find your lack of logic, disturbing...1 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »KramUzibra wrote: »I have ZERO sympathy for people who can't be bothered to learn the rules of the game they play. Laziness isn't an excuse for cheating. I'm so sick of this tired scenario being drug out over and over by people who have almost certainly been using gap closers as an exploit to somehow lessen the impact on themselves in case ZOS is starting to really crack down.
Done.With.It.
I agree however after reading the rules myself i have discovered that the rules say nothing in specific to gap closing or when and where it is acceptable to use them. Sure you can use the argument that the rules say utilizing exploits is against teso and zos has stated on the forums that gap closing to scale keep walls is an exploit thus gap closing is against teso. However it must be made clear to all including those who do not participate on the forums so they know better. Also dks dragon leap is also in violation of teso since it can be used to bypass siege mechanics to gain entry into a keep. I guess every dk that uses this ability in such away also deserves to be banned?
Of course they don't specifically say that gap closing is illegal in the rules. They don't have to. They SPECIFICALLY state that using a BUG or some sort of glitch for personal gain is categorically against the rules. It's an all encompassing rule. Yes, it requires that you can think and process information and have some rudimentary system of personal right and wrong, but cover it it does.
Just like speeding. They don't have to state what type of vehicle that you're using while speeding. You can speed in a car, truck, bike, motorcycle, moped, or whatever you happen to be behind the wheel or handlebars of.
Haha proved my point just like it's the cities responsibility to clearly display the speed limit multiple times on every street. it is also zos responsibility to make it clear that gap closing is against teso to the entire player base. Again not all players are on the forum accounts, not all players know this is against the rules most players I play with treat this similarly to the dks dragonleap. Alot of players from console have come accustomed to utilizing exploits until the game's manufacturer prevents them from doing so. once zos makes it undeniably clear to all I'll agree with some sort of disciplinary actions until then I'm going to continue arguing my point. Maybe if they put a notice in the start up screen where everyone can see it prior to logging in.
You are trying way to hard to justify cheating. It is exploiting to enter an enemy keep without knocking down a wall or a door. Make all the excuses you want, no one will believe you.
Not justification. I realise it's wrong and against the rules I know this because Im on the forums. Iv asked multiple players on console if they know this is against the rules all but maybe two or three know this and they only know this through word of the mouth. It's simple logic, how do u expect people to not break the rules when you don't tell them. Referring to the rules is not enough since they do not specify gap closing as an exploit. When I dragon leap from the outer keep wall to the inner keep building am I violating teso since this ability bypasses certain game mechanics. Is animation cancelling an exploit since it bypasses the animation of the ability to register damage allowing the player to perform multiple moves at an excessive rate to gain an advantage in combat? All I'm saying is these things need to be made clear. Since I'm aware this is an exploit I don't do it. Some players don't read the forums. They do not have to read the forumsforums because they are not obligated to do so. If they don't read the forums how do you expect them to know what actions are considered exploits?
Once again, you are trying real hard to explain away an exploit. Not buying it.
Just my perspective on the matter. Agree to disagree
I find your lack of logic, disturbing...
I find your persistence in disregarding logic and well presented arguments, disturbing.Edited by Grao on July 14, 2016 11:21PM2 -
Idinuse✭✭✭✭✭
✭KramUzibra wrote: »A lot of players from console have come accustomed to utilizing exploits until the game's manufacturer prevents them from doing so. once zos makes it undeniably clear to all I'll agree with some sort of disciplinary actions until then I'm going to continue arguing my point
Lol!
Edit* Had a great vid, but since it's a commercial (albeit 10 years old), something felt off
. Edited by Idinuse on July 15, 2016 2:20AMSed ut perspiciatis unde omnis iste natus error sit voluptatem accusantium dolorem que laudantium, totam rem aperiam, eaque ipsa quae ab illo inventore veritatis et quasi architecto beatae vitae dicta sunt explicabo. Nemo enim ipsam voluptatem quia voluptas sit aspernatur aut odit aut fugit, sed quia consequuntur magni dolores eos qui ratione voluptatem sequi nesciunt. Neque porro quisquam est, qui dolorem ipsum quia dolor sit amet, consectetur, adipisci velit, sed quia non numquam eius modi tempora incidunt ut labore et dolore magnam aliquam quaerat voluptatem. Ut enim ad minima veniam, quis nostrum exercitationem ullam corporis suscipit laboriosam, nisi ut aliquid ex ea commodi consequatur? Quis autem vel eum iure reprehenderit qui in ea voluptate velit esse quam nihil molestiae consequatur, vel illum qui dolorem eum fugiat quo voluptas nulla pariatur?0 -
Sophieous✭✭✭✭Except you're arguing from a failed and already logically bankrupt position.
According to who? You? What makes you have the upper hand? Please, keep it constructive.EU | PC
Sophious - AD Templar (The one and only true Queen)
Not Sophious - AD Warden
Mayorz DK Slave - DC Templar
May is my bae - DC Magblade
Galabriem - DC Sorc
Queen Sophie - DC Stamblade"I'm still pretty self-centered, greedy and angry" D.L.0 -
Mordron✭Whatzituyah wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@KramUzibra I kinda understand where your coming from but this is the part where a player asks himself "Whats the point of seige engines if we can just jump the wall?" then it comes to mind its an exploit and realize that you wouldn't want armys of DKs, Nightblades, or even both leaping over the gate.
Grappling hooks and ladders existed in the medieval times and still siege engines were used, so your argument makes no sense. Gap closers like Silver Leash, Teleport Strike and Dragon Leap are perfect examples of abilities that from their looks and described effect, should be able to gap close players on to the top of a wall.
@Grao But would you want DKs and Nightblades leaping over the gate? Also silver leash does it to? Welp not going to Cyrodiil anytime soon.
Lol typo
On the PTS it was doing, but I am not sure if the bug translated to the Live servers. It was funny though.
And would I want DKs and Nightblades jumping over the gate? Probably not if there were no skill other classes could pick up for similar effect. Right now I am against the use of gap closers on to walls because Zenimax has declared it an exploit, but honestly, I'd have preferred if they had allowed everyone to fairly take advantage of this bug until they came up with measures to counter the problem. Right now you have those that know of this matter and choose not to violate the TOS in serious disadvantage against those that don't care about the TOS or don't know or pretend they don't know this is a bug.
I think they should allow it
Because you cant ignore feedbacks from the players during the pts(gapcloser),going live and blame the players for using it xD
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Beef_SupremeSoul ShrivenYolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Chiming in here since @Fengrush thread was closed.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDm5rGhqaI
I agree with most of what Fengrush says here. He takes way too long to get to the point but he nails most of the points.- ZOS's stance on cheating is confusing, poorly defined and inconsistently enforced.
- ZOS has failed to define and explain the difference between cheating, cheat engines, exploits, unintended effects of skills, bugs, etc.
- ZOS has failed to explain the differences in penalties, ban length, appeals process, unbans, etc.
- ZOS has been DISGUSTINGLY inconsistent in their enforcement of the types of behavior listed above.
- ZOS has allowed KNOWN CHEATERS (that have used cheat engine) back into the game after a "permanent" ban.
- ZOS has allowed this game to be so buggy and exploit ridden that its almost ridiculous to ban players for (ingame) exploits because historically there has been at least one each patch release.
ZOS at this point, I don't consider you a serious and professional gaming studio and I don't see how anyone else can see you as such.
Use of a 3rd party cheat program should have a zero tolerance permaban, anything less than this is frankly pathetic. Knowingly installing software for the express purpose of cheating shouldn't be tolerated in any way and allowing people back into the game who were caught red handed using cheat engine is insulting to the vast majority of the player base who play fairly.
The whole gap closer debacle is more of a grey area as it's Zos's fault that it's even exploitable in the first place. Reports and videos of the issues were up within a week of the PTS going live. Shame!
Banning people for gap closers is pretty harsh, they should probably start out with a warning, if the warning goes ignored then a 1 hour ban from PvP zones (with clear explanation why they were banned). If the same person continues to exploit then hit them a 1 day ban from the game (not just PvP), and if they persist after that then a 1 week ban from the game etc.
I honestly think a permaban for exploiting a game mechanic that Zos put into the game, despite clear warnings about it from the PTS, is rough and unjust (imho) but should only be used in an escalation of punitive measures as described above.
Come on Zos, do the right thing!4 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭Beef_Supreme wrote: »Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »Chiming in here since @Fengrush thread was closed.https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDm5rGhqaI
I agree with most of what Fengrush says here. He takes way too long to get to the point but he nails most of the points.- ZOS's stance on cheating is confusing, poorly defined and inconsistently enforced.
- ZOS has failed to define and explain the difference between cheating, cheat engines, exploits, unintended effects of skills, bugs, etc.
- ZOS has failed to explain the differences in penalties, ban length, appeals process, unbans, etc.
- ZOS has been DISGUSTINGLY inconsistent in their enforcement of the types of behavior listed above.
- ZOS has allowed KNOWN CHEATERS (that have used cheat engine) back into the game after a "permanent" ban.
- ZOS has allowed this game to be so buggy and exploit ridden that its almost ridiculous to ban players for (ingame) exploits because historically there has been at least one each patch release.
ZOS at this point, I don't consider you a serious and professional gaming studio and I don't see how anyone else can see you as such.
Use of a 3rd party cheat program should have a zero tolerance permaban, anything less than this is frankly pathetic. Knowingly installing software for the express purpose of cheating shouldn't be tolerated in any way and allowing people back into the game who were caught red handed using cheat engine is insulting to the vast majority of the player base who play fairly.
The whole gap closer debacle is more of a grey area as it's Zos's fault that it's even exploitable in the first place. Reports and videos of the issues were up within a week of the PTS going live. Shame!
Banning people for gap closers is pretty harsh, they should probably start out with a warning, if the warning goes ignored then a 1 hour ban from PvP zones (with clear explanation why they were banned). If the same person continues to exploit then hit them a 1 day ban from the game (not just PvP), and if they persist after that then a 1 week ban from the game etc.
I honestly think a permaban for exploiting a game mechanic that Zos put into the game, despite clear warnings about it from the PTS, is rough and unjust (imho) but should only be used in an escalation of punitive measures as described above.
Come on Zos, do the right thing!
Very well said! 100%agree1 -
Roechacca✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭Zennimax rarely changes its mind on policy unless it effects their bottom line.1 -
rfennell_ESO✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭Whatzituyah wrote: »@KramUzibra I kinda understand where your coming from but this is the part where a player asks himself "Whats the point of seige engines if we can just jump the wall?" then it comes to mind its an exploit and realize that you wouldn't want armys of DKs, Nightblades, or even both leaping over the gate.
Grappling hooks and ladders existed in the medieval times and still siege engines were used, so your argument makes no sense. Gap closers like Silver Leash, Teleport Strike and Dragon Leap are perfect examples of abilities that from their looks and described effect, should be able to gap close players on to the top of a wall.
Sure, grappling hooks and ladders existed in medieval times.
One little point of note is that they didn't allow you to enter a castle in .1 seconds.4 -
So after roughly 3 weeks of absence i noticed zero has changed. The same cheaters are blocking the ladders.
That means i stop playing this game now.
i have 3 "theories now to offer:
1. the video posting cheaters are friends with some Zenimaxx employer and convince them that they are playing fair
2. Zenimax does not care at all if people like me stop playing their game (very likely since they give zero information and dont perma ban anyone)
3. Zenimax is completely helpless and the cheaters are just smarter than their best software "experts"1 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭So after roughly 3 weeks of absence i noticed zero has changed. The same cheaters are blocking the ladders.
That means i stop playing this game now.
i have 3 "theories now to offer:
1. the video posting cheaters are friends with some Zenimaxx employer and convince them that they are playing fair
2. Zenimax does not care at all if people like me stop playing their game (very likely since they give zero information and dont perma ban anyone)
3. Zenimax is completely helpless and the cheaters are just smarter than their best software "experts"
I'll go with Theory number 4.
4. @Bucket666 perspective may differ from Zenimax and they may not view certain actions as cheating. Zenimax cares so much about there players that they keep all disciplinary actions confidential to respect individuals privacy. They treat each situation on a case-by-case basis and in regards to certain circumstances they may show leniency.2 -
Whatzituyah✭✭✭✭ZOS using a B2P system on the game they may not have the resources to be profitable and investigating cheating fast at the same time. What I mean is they could dump all there resources into banning the cheaters but what else would get done?https://twitch.tv/whatzituyah2
PSN: Whatzituyah0 -
Grao✭✭✭✭✭
✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@KramUzibra I kinda understand where your coming from but this is the part where a player asks himself "Whats the point of seige engines if we can just jump the wall?" then it comes to mind its an exploit and realize that you wouldn't want armys of DKs, Nightblades, or even both leaping over the gate.
Grappling hooks and ladders existed in the medieval times and still siege engines were used, so your argument makes no sense. Gap closers like Silver Leash, Teleport Strike and Dragon Leap are perfect examples of abilities that from their looks and described effect, should be able to gap close players on to the top of a wall.
Sure, grappling hooks and ladders existed in medieval times.
One little point of note is that they didn't allow you to enter a castle in .1 seconds.
Hey, I don't disagree, they have to fix gap closers. What I am saying is that while ZOS is not able to fix the problem and since they are not willing to both advertise this problem with Gap Closers to every player and punish players violating their TOS, they should simply allow the use of this particular exploit.KramUzibra wrote: »So after roughly 3 weeks of absence i noticed zero has changed. The same cheaters are blocking the ladders.
That means i stop playing this game now.
i have 3 "theories now to offer:
1. the video posting cheaters are friends with some Zenimaxx employer and convince them that they are playing fair
2. Zenimax does not care at all if people like me stop playing their game (very likely since they give zero information and dont perma ban anyone)
3. Zenimax is completely helpless and the cheaters are just smarter than their best software "experts"
I'll go with Theory number 4.
4. @Bucket666 perspective may differ from Zenimax and they may not view certain actions as cheating. Zenimax cares so much about there players that they keep all disciplinary actions confidential to respect individuals privacy. They treat each situation on a case-by-case basis and in regards to certain circumstances they may show leniency.
I don't quite agree with you. I think Zenimax does see using gap closers to get into keeps as cheating, but they are not willing to punish players doing it because of the back lash, both monetary and to their image. Banning players loses them money, banning a lot of players will lose them a lot of money and banning a player for taking advantage of a bug they knowingly inserted into the game over a month ago? It doesn't look good.0 -
KramUzibra✭✭✭✭rfennell_ESO wrote: »Whatzituyah wrote: »@KramUzibra I kinda understand where your coming from but this is the part where a player asks himself "Whats the point of seige engines if we can just jump the wall?" then it comes to mind its an exploit and realize that you wouldn't want armys of DKs, Nightblades, or even both leaping over the gate.
Grappling hooks and ladders existed in the medieval times and still siege engines were used, so your argument makes no sense. Gap closers like Silver Leash, Teleport Strike and Dragon Leap are perfect examples of abilities that from their looks and described effect, should be able to gap close players on to the top of a wall.
Sure, grappling hooks and ladders existed in medieval times.
One little point of note is that they didn't allow you to enter a castle in .1 seconds.
Hey, I don't disagree, they have to fix gap closers. What I am saying is that while ZOS is not able to fix the problem and since they are not willing to both advertise this problem with Gap Closers to every player and punish players violating their TOS, they should simply allow the use of this particular exploit.KramUzibra wrote: »So after roughly 3 weeks of absence i noticed zero has changed. The same cheaters are blocking the ladders.
That means i stop playing this game now.
i have 3 "theories now to offer:
1. the video posting cheaters are friends with some Zenimaxx employer and convince them that they are playing fair
2. Zenimax does not care at all if people like me stop playing their game (very likely since they give zero information and dont perma ban anyone)
3. Zenimax is completely helpless and the cheaters are just smarter than their best software "experts"
I'll go with Theory number 4.
4. @Bucket666 perspective may differ from Zenimax and they may not view certain actions as cheating. Zenimax cares so much about there players that they keep all disciplinary actions confidential to respect individuals privacy. They treat each situation on a case-by-case basis and in regards to certain circumstances they may show leniency.
I don't quite agree with you. I think Zenimax does see using gap closers to get into keeps as cheating, but they are not willing to punish players doing it because of the back lash, both monetary and to their image. Banning players loses them money, banning a lot of players will lose them a lot of money and banning a player for taking advantage of a bug they knowingly inserted into the game over a month ago? It doesn't look good.
Not speaking about Gap closing in particular. some players still view animation cancelling as cheating and Zenimax has accepted and support AC as a part of the game. Just because certain people view something as cheating doesn't make it so.0 -
To add something i am not talking about gap closers, animation cancelling or whatever silly in game mechanic you guys are complaining about. I am talking about external software that manipulates the game. Look in the videos. See when they forget to refresh abilties and still keep the magicka and health regen up. See them not blocking and getting like half the damage they should get. Some of these guys are good players no doubt. But whats happens when a good players cheats ? right a ridiculous high score and an odd video that does not add up.1
This discussion has been closed.