Cheating and Exploits

Sophieous

DeadDealer wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Sophieous wrote: »

I'm never gonna report a single player for doing it, hope they bring it in the game permanently and if they don't, and carry on considering it as a bug, it should be fixed asap.

Not reporting exploiters is also a violation of the Terms of Service.

@Enodoc lol?
we are not in USSR, man

we will report or not report, its on our consideration

Exactly my point

Arthg

KingMagaw wrote: »

I also think its a disgrace they couldn't send an in game mail, or article in news section of launcher or log in screen to UPDATE people on there change of heart considering this could be done for months and months.

I wholeheartedly agree.

The gap-closing exploiters were a shame, but perma-banning them seems an overkill to me.
And doing that without forewarning, after condoning the exploit for months, if not years, doesn't sound fair at all.

Finally, I know the TOS force you to report an exploit if you witness one.
But I find it tough to report a gap-closing exploiter knowing they might be perma-banned for it (no problem for cheaters, that goes without saying). After all, the banking writs exploiters (a more serious offence in my view) got away scot-free.

Turelus

Sophieous wrote: »

DeadDealer wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Sophieous wrote: »

I'm never gonna report a single player for doing it, hope they bring it in the game permanently and if they don't, and carry on considering it as a bug, it should be fixed asap.

Not reporting exploiters is also a violation of the Terms of Service.

@Enodoc lol?
we are not in USSR, man

we will report or not report, its on our consideration

Exactly my point

But declaring openly on the forums you see exploitation and didn't report it did breaks ToS. If ZOS was fickle enough that alone could land you a ban.
Sure you're not forced to report it, but I wouldn't run around shouting "I saw people cheat and didn't say anything because it's not my job"

Either way this debate doesn't bring anything to the thread. Like it or not using gap closers has been deemed and exploit and players have been warned, from this point on anyone who suffers action against their account for using it doesn't have an excuse.

The community is going to be watching how ZOS handles this one though.

Mayorz

it's the duty of zenimax to fix thing's like this ASAP not *** 3 month wait periods, Dont blame the players for their *** outlook on how to run/update a game.

NobleNerd

I love how ZOS pinned this almost a week ago and yet has failed to post, comment or even just a quick update linking their ESO Live response or just plain anything in awhile!

This is the reason there is so much frustration over these topics of cheating and exploiting..... some interaction in the thread from ZOS would go a long way.

I would love to come back to this game for the PvP, but so far there has been nothing indicating an improvement with these issues or the performance of the servers/game with regards to PvP.

Sophieous

@Turelus

So you are saying to me that voicing my opinion about sth is going to give me a ban? What am I going to get banned for? Not finding the time to report the 500 ppl that are doing in on EU PC? Or are they gonna mass ban the people who have stated similar opinion to mine? Please

I am not demanding anything from them, I am not flaming them, I am simply voicing my opinion that unfortunately is not to their favour. Didn't know we went back to the middle ages.

PS
And stop being so obsessed with finding excuses to ban people, it's getting out of hand.

Turelus

@NobleNerd Jessica posted the night they made the announcement on ESO Live as well as seeing reports on here to the thread about gap closers and posting in their the confirmation it was an exploit. So there have been some updates.

@Sophieous I am not saying you will be banned for an opinion nor that not reporting 500 people will net you ban. I am saying that as Enodoc pointed out knowing about players abusing exploits and not reporting it is against ToS, so shouting about it on the forums saying you know people who have exploited but won't report them could in theory get you banned if ZOS was fickle enough. I don't believe ZOS are and I don't believe you'll be banned.

I am not looking for excuses to ban people, I am reinforcing Enodoc's point announcing you don't report exploiters with pride isn't a wise move when the ToS covers that.

As I said in my last post this debate adds nothing to the discussion though as it's arguing pointless things.

NobleNerd

Turelus wrote: »

@NobleNerd Jessica posted the night they made the announcement on ESO Live as well as seeing reports on here to the thread about gap closers and posting in their the confirmation it was an exploit. So there have been some updates.

@Sophieous I am not saying you will be banned for an opinion nor that not reporting 500 people will net you ban. I am saying that as Enodoc pointed out knowing about players abusing exploits and not reporting it is against ToS, so shouting about it on the forums saying you know people who have exploited but won't report them could in theory get you banned if ZOS was fickle enough. I don't believe ZOS are and I don't believe you'll be banned.

I am not looking for excuses to ban people, I am reinforcing Enodoc's point announcing you don't report exploiters with pride isn't a wise move when the ToS covers that.

As I said in my last post this debate adds nothing to the discussion though as it's arguing pointless things.

My point is there was a short blip after the ESO Live, but no detailed clarification and enforcement of what they supposedly are banning and suspending accounts. There needs to be more.... I feel like the old McDonalds commercial "Where's the beef!"

UltimaJoe777

Sophieous wrote: »

I'm not gonna sit there and observe for WHEN a person does that so I can report it to ZOS. It's not my job. Pretty much everyone on EU PC does it. Let's report the whole server and get them permabanned for a click that was caused by them and which they refuse to fix.

If you are so caught up in what you are doing that you cannot take a moment to report someone exploiting or cheating then I do not blame you for not doing so. However, PC players have a means they can use that console players do not (even if text chat changes that it may not be as convenient regardless) that Rich himself said is the best way to report them: /bug

UltimaJoe777

NobleNerd wrote: »

I love how ZOS pinned this almost a week ago and yet has failed to post, comment or even just a quick update linking their ESO Live response or just plain anything in awhile!

This is the reason there is so much frustration over these topics of cheating and exploiting..... some interaction in the thread from ZOS would go a long way.

I would love to come back to this game for the PvP, but so far there has been nothing indicating an improvement with these issues or the performance of the servers/game with regards to PvP.

They don't discuss action taken in combating cheating and exploiting because there is always the chance people will find workarounds if they know what to expect.

Stealth action is stealthy.

Pomaikai

Arthg wrote: »

KingMagaw wrote: »

I also think its a disgrace they couldn't send an in game mail, or article in news section of launcher or log in screen to UPDATE people on there change of heart considering this could be done for months and months.

I wholeheartedly agree.

The gap-closing exploiters were a shame, but perma-banning them seems an overkill to me.
And doing that without forewarning, after condoning the exploit for months, if not years, doesn't sound fair at all.

Finally, I know the TOS force you to report an exploit if you witness one.
But I find it tough to report a gap-closing exploiter knowing they might be perma-banned for it (no problem for cheaters, that goes without saying). After all, the banking writs exploiters (a more serious offence in my view) got away scot-free.

One month is forewarning enough. Tough luck.

KramUzibra

Pomaikai wrote: »

Arthg wrote: »

KingMagaw wrote: »

I also think its a disgrace they couldn't send an in game mail, or article in news section of launcher or log in screen to UPDATE people on there change of heart considering this could be done for months and months.

I wholeheartedly agree.

The gap-closing exploiters were a shame, but perma-banning them seems an overkill to me.
And doing that without forewarning, after condoning the exploit for months, if not years, doesn't sound fair at all.

Finally, I know the TOS force you to report an exploit if you witness one.
But I find it tough to report a gap-closing exploiter knowing they might be perma-banned for it (no problem for cheaters, that goes without saying). After all, the banking writs exploiters (a more serious offence in my view) got away scot-free.

One month is forewarning enough. Tough luck.

And what about those casual players that don't read the forums, don't watch eso live and are not on twitch? How will they know gab closing is not ok?

Also I watch players every single night on xb1 gab closing up walls. I will report a player if I feel like reportin them not because I have to.

NobleNerd

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

NobleNerd wrote: »

I love how ZOS pinned this almost a week ago and yet has failed to post, comment or even just a quick update linking their ESO Live response or just plain anything in awhile!

This is the reason there is so much frustration over these topics of cheating and exploiting..... some interaction in the thread from ZOS would go a long way.

I would love to come back to this game for the PvP, but so far there has been nothing indicating an improvement with these issues or the performance of the servers/game with regards to PvP.

They don't discuss action taken in combating cheating and exploiting because there is always the chance people will find workarounds if they know what to expect.

Stealth action is stealthy.

Crazy man with no clue says what?

I do not want to know their secrets. I want to know details on their stance to the exploits, cheating and a breakdown for all players to understand exactly what is allowed, working as intended and what is an exploit and cheating.... in writing on this forum or a separate post that breaks it into bullet points and is as simple as you can get it from a company.

Idinuse

KramUzibra wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Arthg wrote: »

KingMagaw wrote: »

I also think its a disgrace they couldn't send an in game mail, or article in news section of launcher or log in screen to UPDATE people on there change of heart considering this could be done for months and months.

I wholeheartedly agree.

The gap-closing exploiters were a shame, but perma-banning them seems an overkill to me.
And doing that without forewarning, after condoning the exploit for months, if not years, doesn't sound fair at all.

Finally, I know the TOS force you to report an exploit if you witness one.
But I find it tough to report a gap-closing exploiter knowing they might be perma-banned for it (no problem for cheaters, that goes without saying). After all, the banking writs exploiters (a more serious offence in my view) got away scot-free.

One month is forewarning enough. Tough luck.

And what about those casual players that don't read the forums, don't watch eso live and are not on twitch? How will they know gab closing is not ok?

Also I watch players every single night on xb1 gab closing up walls. I will report a player if I feel like reportin them not because I have to.

I did not see one single gap exploit this play session (6hrs), so my guess would be that the ones that figured out the gap exploit also figured out how to find the game Forums. But...that's just a guess.

UltimaJoe777

NobleNerd wrote: »

UltimaJoe777 wrote: »

NobleNerd wrote: »

I love how ZOS pinned this almost a week ago and yet has failed to post, comment or even just a quick update linking their ESO Live response or just plain anything in awhile!

This is the reason there is so much frustration over these topics of cheating and exploiting..... some interaction in the thread from ZOS would go a long way.

I would love to come back to this game for the PvP, but so far there has been nothing indicating an improvement with these issues or the performance of the servers/game with regards to PvP.

They don't discuss action taken in combating cheating and exploiting because there is always the chance people will find workarounds if they know what to expect.

Stealth action is stealthy.

Crazy man with no clue says what?

I do not want to know their secrets. I want to know details on their stance to the exploits, cheating and a breakdown for all players to understand exactly what is allowed, working as intended and what is an exploit and cheating.... in writing on this forum or a separate post that breaks it into bullet points and is as simple as you can get it from a company.

The details on their stance are as follows: They are constantly combating the cheats and exploits. They have people constantly checking player logs and if any third party program is used they will know it because it will appear in the log. What all is considered an exploit they cannot really say much about if it is not happening widespread like jumping keeps due to the fact people would then go exploit it if they knew about it.

Arthg

Pomaikai wrote: »

One month is forewarning enough. Tough luck.

What forewarning are you talking about?
The official message buried somewhere here?

How many people in the player base do you think read the forums?
How many know gap-closing into a keep is even an exploit?

My bet is, not many, especially in the EU.

I strongly support ZOS cracking down on cheats and exploits, but an ingame warning (against the gap-closing exploit) seems fair to me.

If you want to reestablish trust and respect within the community and between ZOS and players, going Judge Dredd all of a sudden isn't necessarily the way to go. After all, Judge Dredd would never have let an exploit go on for MONTHS. And once again, some honest people still probably don't even know it's an exploit (I used to dragon-leap into keeps, and learned about it being an exploit only when I joined here).

ishilb14_ESO

@ZOS_AlanG why are players, who have video proof of legitimately completing vMA with high scores, being banned, even though there are players, who are confirmed to have used 3rd party exploits, not banned?

Sharee

KramUzibra wrote: »

And what about those casual players that don't read the forums, don't watch eso live and are not on twitch? How will they know gab closing is not ok?

Common sense. If, for 2 years, you were required to perform a lengthy siege and bring down a wall before you could enter a keep, and suddenly you can bypass all that with a single button press, chances are it is not intended. If it sounds too good to be true, it probably is.

Daganerabus

Retroactive banning?? Noooo! Not cool! Yes, they SHOULD CLEAN UP the mess....
For those who used the Exploit ... wasting weeks doing them.... i am referencing SURVEY GLITCH and UNLIMITES PERFECT ROE EXPLOIT.. ZOS SHOULD HAVE, And now SHOULD REMOVE ALL the ITEMS or STACKS from the glitchers accounts, and RESET THEIR CURRENCY to reflect a MINIMUM BALANCE. A message to them stating the reasons behind it and that they are LUCKY that they are NOT PERMA BANNED.

In regards to OTHER EXPLOITS which may have ALLOWED CERTAIN TITLES to be OBTAINED... ZOS SHOULD Just REMOVE THEIR TITLES, Inform thise individuals that THEY NEED TO ***EARN** Those TITLES LEGITIMATELY. Etc.

But to UNBANN the ALREADY PERMANENTLY BANNED PPL.... AND THEN TO turn around and RETROACTIVELY BAN OTHER PLAYERS PERMANENTLY??! THAT IS CONTRADICTORY, And YES...!! SORRY to say... but I COULD SEE A MAJOR *CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT* AND LIABILITIES. All this things INCLUDING the Eula could be challenged..... seeing how we believe that Zos is already in default and we believe have breached their agreement(s) with us.

I COULD BE wrong And I CERTAINLY HOPE that things/issues CAN BE RESOLVED WITHOUT SUCH COURSE OR RECOURSE of ACTION(S).

I also HAVE SOLUTIONS on how to QUICKLY Rectify these issues more Passively without any further strenuous complications, which may bring forth a greater peace to ZOS and .. All of TAMRIEL!

Eclipse0990

@ZOS_GinaBruno , @ZOS_AlanG, @ZOS_JessicaFolsom
I invite gamemasters to play on EU PC ebony blade campaign on prime time and observe behaviour of EP players. From what i got to know(from their rage tells to a fellow guild mate), some of them have been warned. Yet they've been using this exploit heavily. Yesterday about 8 of them jumped in inner keep. Maybe they don't know. Or they just don't care? Many of us have no provision to capture videos of exploits or we aren't ready to capture videos at the right time. So its better ZOS uses the gamemasters and finds the exploiters themselves. As someone said above, it's not our job to keep reporting every single exploiter and then see nothing happen to them.
Also, FIX THE DAMN BUG!

DeadDealer

@Eclipse0990 there is no Gamemasters in ESO anymore
for along time now

Enodoc

Daganerabus wrote: »

SORRY to say... but I COULD SEE A MAJOR *CLASS ACTION LAWSUIT* AND LIABILITIES.

How so? They have the right to terminate Your access to any Service for any reason whatsoever, and with respect to TOS violation, ZeniMax is not required to provide You notice before taking action.

Armitas

Could you address some of the statements being made about that third party program still being used moderately while being undetected? People are saying that it is still being used undetected. Is there a hard detector for this program or not?

Altercator

Nobody should be banned for using gap closers.

Zenimax, fix your game and stop blaming players for your mistakes.

Ridiculous. FIX your code.

SteveCampsOut

Somebody wake me up when ZOS has some credible input to put in this thread.

Pomaikai

KramUzibra wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Arthg wrote: »

KingMagaw wrote: »

I also think its a disgrace they couldn't send an in game mail, or article in news section of launcher or log in screen to UPDATE people on there change of heart considering this could be done for months and months.

I wholeheartedly agree.

The gap-closing exploiters were a shame, but perma-banning them seems an overkill to me.
And doing that without forewarning, after condoning the exploit for months, if not years, doesn't sound fair at all.

Finally, I know the TOS force you to report an exploit if you witness one.
But I find it tough to report a gap-closing exploiter knowing they might be perma-banned for it (no problem for cheaters, that goes without saying). After all, the banking writs exploiters (a more serious offence in my view) got away scot-free.

One month is forewarning enough. Tough luck.

And what about those casual players that don't read the forums, don't watch eso live and are not on twitch? How will they know gab closing is not ok?

Also I watch players every single night on xb1 gab closing up walls. I will report a player if I feel like reportin them not because I have to.

Ignorance is no excuse. Educate yourself. People were talking about it in zone chats and guild chats, but they were just laughed at. Streamers, whom I can assure you most of these n00blers who never set foot on the official forums DO watch have been using them and demonstrating how to use them, DO come to these forums and KNEW that it was deemed an exploit. They just didn't like the idea that is was an exploit, and didn't think that they would ever be busted for using it. Not holding Streamers to a higher standard on this issue is a HUGE mistake on ZOS's end. But the players who refused to listen and refused to educate themselves, other than on how to use the exploit?

Tough luck.

Pomaikai

Armitas wrote: »

Could you address some of the statements being made about that third party program still being used moderately while being undetected? People are saying that it is still being used undetected. Is there a hard detector for this program or not?

Probably not. Since the root of the problem is that ZOS made the monumental blunder of making the ESO client be 100% trusted by their server, they opened themselves up to this type of cheating. Even if they are looking for a specific program, all it needs to do is update itself so it doesn't show the same system fingerprint. Then it's just a game of cat and mouse. And all of this doesn't address the custom cheating apps which are out there and aren't free to use. Those just aren't going to be detected.

ZOS has to remove 100% trust from the client to fix this. That, or put some sort of barrier program between the client and the server which checks values to make sure that what the client is sending matches the numbers that the server is expecting based upon stored values about that character. Out of range results trigger the anti-cheat detector. Someone linked to a new piece of game management software designed to do this very thing recently in this thread. Now, I'm not an expert and I may have not stated exactly how this software works perfectly, so don't slam me on that front, but you can dig up their website here on this thread and learn for yourself.

The most important and meaningful thing that ZOS could do to restore trust and faith, as well as catch a lot of these cheaters and exploiters is to reinstate the GM program and get boots back on the ground, so to speak.

Pomaikai

Altercator wrote: »

Nobody should be banned for using gap closers.

Zenimax, fix your game and stop blaming players for your mistakes.

Ridiculous. FIX your code.

Yeah sorry, but that dog don't hunt. Players used a known exploit. It's no ones fault but their own for violating the TOS.

A box of money falls off of a truck. Just because you can take the money doesn't make it either right, nor legal. An honest person turns the box of money in. In this case, players just cheated because they thought they could get away with it. Now they learn that they can't and are all butt hurt about it.

Tough luck.

FENGRUSH

Apparently my thread wasnt acceptable, and Im supposed to post this here???

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qQDm5rGhqaI

Gamerscape2007

Pomaikai wrote: »

Altercator wrote: »

Nobody should be banned for using gap closers.

Zenimax, fix your game and stop blaming players for your mistakes.

Ridiculous. FIX your code.

Yeah sorry, but that dog don't hunt. Players used a known exploit. It's no ones fault but their own for violating the TOS.

A box of money falls off of a truck. Just because you can take the money doesn't make it either right, nor legal. An honest person turns the box of money in. In this case, players just cheated because they thought they could get away with it. Now they learn that they can't and are all butt hurt about it.

Tough luck.

@Pomaikai All I'm hearing from you is "People should have known, Tough Luck, tough Luck. Durrrrrrr." Who cares if they exploited or not. If Zos fixed their gap closers, none of this crap would have happened. It's their fault they haven't fixed it. It's their fault players are exploiting it due to them staying silent about despite it being on the forums on pts. It's their fault that people was getting innocently banned for stupid crap like using speed buffs. Maybe players shouldn't have used it, but that what happens if you leave this crap in the game for a month. No one should get banned by their mistake.

Sick and tired of you people witch hunting. Yes, some players need to be banned, but at the same time, simple finding someone to report and ban is NOT the solution. This whole banning thing is tearing the community apart.

Simply saying The player are at fault is idiotic.

"Tough Luck."