Cheating and Exploits

Pomaikai

This is what responsible gaming companies do. What kind of gaming company are you, ZOS?

phermitgb

I'm sure someone has already mentioned it as well, but one of the chief reasons I hear to *not* reveal game exploits publicly to the entire community, is to minimize/mitigate the number of people actually exploiting it while they work on a fix

Pomaikai

phermitgb wrote: »

I'm sure someone has already mentioned it as well, but one of the chief reasons I hear to *not* reveal game exploits publicly to the entire community, is to minimize/mitigate the number of people actually exploiting it while they work on a fix

This is only because they don't have the intestinal fortitude to police their own damned game!

Orchish

Quite pathetic to see so many people trying so hard to ban people that have been here since day one. This is nothing like cheat engine, it's a grey area. I came back from a 3 month break and had no idea about this until i started seeing almost EVERYONE doing it in cyrodiil. Not to take keeps or to ruin peoples fun, people were just charging onto walls and having a fight and 9 times out of 10 they died. It was fun. I could post so many videos/screens of enemy players i've had gap close up onto a wall and fight me. I never reported one because as a melee character it gave me something to do during the siege. I got to fight people and have a little pvp fun, you know the main reason we play games?

I get it, this is not intended so instead of banning players how about actually fixing the ability? It's disgusting that people can get banned for this yet players who used cheat engine were unbanned. The fact ZoS have only commnicated that this is an exploit recently on these forums is also another reason why this is rediculous. What about all the players who don't read forums? how are they to know this broken ability that you never bothered to fix is now suddenly classed as an exploit and is bannable offence?

Pomaikai

It's not suddenly. Bye.

fred.thomsonb16_ESO

So, don't group up in Cyrodil, don't use gap closers, don't use Malubeth? Don't animation cancel? What else can we add to this list of what appears to be THE PRODUCT YOU ARE SELLING! "Sorry against TOS to play our game, unless you stand still and use the cash shop during the time you occupy our servers."

All of you capturing footage of people gap-closer 'exploiting' need to pull your heads out your ignorant salty arseholes.

Pomaikai

I use animation cancelling because that is 100% allowed by ZOS. The rest? Nope.

Bye.

fred.thomsonb16_ESO

Pomaikai wrote: »

I use animation cancelling because that is 100% allowed by ZOS. The rest? Nope.

Bye.

Where is the line drawn?

Pomaikai

Have you read the TOS? Give me a bloody break. Y'all knew that every gap closer suddenly being able to bypass walls and doors wasn't intended. Plenty of y'all come onto the forums and watch ESO Live.

If something looks too good to be true, then it almost certainly is.

fred.thomsonb16_ESO

The most used skills in the game send you flying through walls and up keeps. Punish the players, not the inept company.

fred.thomsonb16_ESO

Pomaikai wrote: »

It's not suddenly. Bye.

Turelus

Junipus wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

A previous game I played did the following when something like this would arise.

• Make a news statement on their website saying a exploit had been identified and warning players not to use it.
• Update the launcher to say a new declared exploit was in the game and linking back to the news article.
• Have the log-in/character selection screen show additional warnings about a new exploit and not to use it.

Not sure how much work is involved in the above but it would go a long way towards improving communication and showing the community at large ZOS is taking a hard stance on cheating/exploiting as well as giving everyone within the game a fair warning as to stop this without having to dig up the above quote and share it every time someone says it's not an exploit.

A noble endeavor and request, however each of the three above would likely be longer than the TOS and require ZOS to:

- Catalogue the number of exploits in their game
- Admit that there were/are a large number of exploits
- Police those exploits, reporting and enforcement actions
- Admit to the scale of previous/ongoing exploiting and cheating
- Prioritise bug fixing and other maintenance issues over pumping out DLC, something which i sincerely doubt ZOS has the financial capacity to do at this stage.

I'd love them to do it just as much as the next delusionally optimistic fan, but reality is shoving itself pretty unceremoniously in my face quite hard.

@Junipus I don't mean this for every past exploit I mean it when something comes up so everyone in the community knows that something is happening. There are people who are still using gap closers because as far as they know it's fair game, as every other exploit like it has been.

It's not going to take days of work for ZOS to write something like this: https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/drone-damage-exploit-notification/ as a news link or even a forums post (which is pinned) then have an update on the launcher/log-in screen to link back to it.

If it would take ZOS days of work then maybe this is part of the internal changes they need to address to fight cheating/exploiting.

If they're able to update the launcher to tell us about new 5,000 Crown Mounts I am sure they're able to update it to warn people about cheating/exploiting

phermitgb wrote: »

I'm sure someone has already mentioned it as well, but one of the chief reasons I hear to *not* reveal game exploits publicly to the entire community, is to minimize/mitigate the number of people actually exploiting it while they work on a fix

As others said this is only because they're unable to back up their threats. Most other companies actually announce there is an exploit and even partially what it's regarding to warm people off it. They can do this because they have firm action and people know if they abuse it they will be caught.
ZOS has failed over the last two years to develop that fear and set a precedent that cheating is beneficial to do and there is no hard penalties for doing so.

Pomaikai wrote: »

Have you read the TOS? Give me a bloody break. Y'all knew that every gap closer suddenly being able to bypass walls and doors wasn't intended. Plenty of y'all come onto the forums and watch ESO Live.

If something looks too good to be true, then it almost certainly is.

But every other time it's been too good to be true, like Caltrops making you 100% immune to siege, stacking mundas stones, jumping off world objects to get inside keeps (Aleswell), using propelling shield to get onto keeps, etc. ZOS has never taken action, so how are players meant to know that suddenly it's bad to abuse these skills when ZOS set the precedent it's okay to do so for two years.

I am not saying we should, but I am saying now ZOS has stepped up and said so they need to damn well communicate that better. I am all for people who cheat/abuse finally getting bans but they need to do this all in and not half-arsed.

Pomaikai

Preach it!

Turelus

On a more positive note I do want to say a big thank you to ZOS.

This week you have communicated a bit better about issues as well as taking a stand against an exploit which was harming PvP in the game. This is good steps forward and even restored a little of my faith in you to look after the game.

Please understand that even with the critic myself and others are still throwing your way, you've done something great this week and hopefully we see a continuation in this regard going forwards.

XDragonDoomX

fred.thomsonb16_ESO wrote: »

The most used skills in the game send you flying through walls and up keeps. Punish the players, not the inept company.

Accidents occur.
Repeatedly and deliberately using it is not an accident, it is then an exploit and cheat.
Those who are guilty of this should be punished.
Whether or not there is an unintended mechanic that has yet to be fixed, there is still personal integrity.

AnviOfVai

Its not great when you are the only player in a keep and 4 other opposite players have scaled into your castle and have taken it because they used the cheat system. It is Wrong and it should be fixed fast. If you ended up punishing people who do it, you would take out half of ESO. I don't like it but I don't think players should be kicked. But something should happen to that player. like wearing a dunce hat. hahahha or certain privileges are taken from them? I don't know, but its a bit harsh. A warning sent to them saying they have been caught, if there name is reported again then something happens to their character? perhaps lock it for so many days? so at least they can still play but they have to use another character. It could work.

Turelus

katiesmith12341 wrote: »

Its not great when you are the only player in a keep and 4 other opposite players have scaled into your castle and have taken it because they used the cheat system. It is Wrong and it should be fixed fast. If you ended up punishing people who do it, you would take out half of ESO. I don't like it but I don't think players should be kicked. But something should happen to that player. like wearing a dunce hat. hahahha or certain privileges are taken from them? I don't know, but its a bit harsh. A warning sent to them saying they have been caught, if there name is reported again then something happens to their character? perhaps lock it for so many days? so at least they can still play but they have to use another character. It could work.

From our understanding ZOS has a strike system, so if the people caught are fist time offenders it's not likely they will be permabanned for something like this.

End of the day however if someone has abused the game in a blatant way then ZOS finally showing some guts and banning or suspending people is one of the best things we can see from them. It's going to start driving home the message that this isn't cool and accounts/characters are being lost for partaking in exploits.

If they keep this up, keep up the communication and efforts to close down exploits faster then we may finally see competitive players returning to the game and gaining trust in ZOS.

Pomaikai

Streamers who have been using and showing their subscribers how to use the gap closer exploit need to be dealt with, and dealt with harshly. Especially when they come to these forums and brag about using them.

Grappling hooks?

Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;

Absolutely violations of the TOS, and done not only for personal gain within Cyrodiil, but for personal gain in the real world via increased stream subscriptions which results in increased ad revenue and freebies for the streamer from software and hardware companies.

I truly hope that ZOS understands that ignoring the "professional" violators of the TOS is MUCH more damaging to the game than normal players, because it is these self same "professionals" who advertise and promote the usage of exploits and bugged items in the game by a MUCH wider group of players than would have normally abused them.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom can you please address ZOS's official stance towards promoting the use of exploits and bugged items by "professionals", i.e. Streamers? I'm not speaking of any specific streamer or incident here. Just an official position that ALL streamers should be aware of and held accountable for.

Thank you for your time and assistance in this very important matter.

Turelus

I would say they should only be punished if they're continuing these actions since Jessica's post stating it's an exploit.

Once again many people were/are using this because of a precedent set by ZOS that using these kinds of things until fixed is okay. Now that ZOS has taken a stance if the streamers come out and start telling people to not do so, and they were wrong then it's for the better.

I don't think ZOS should start going back and retroactively banning people for offences before they made a statement because that's a big rabbit hole to go down. Better to make the stand from this point on and continue to enforce it as of now.

Those in the spot light such as streamers can use this to turn around and start promoting fair play rather than exploit use or fans bans in future.

Pomaikai

Statements have been made over a month ago by ZOS stating that gap closing into keeps was a bug, and that knowingly using them that way was an exploit. The streamers all use these forums, so ignorance is not an excuse, period.

Examples need to be made showing that there is no favoritism at play here, and that NO ONE is exempt from the TOS in this game.

Turelus

Pomaikai wrote: »

Statements have been made over a month ago by ZOS stating that gap closing into keeps was a bug, and that knowingly using them that way was an exploit. The streamers all use these forums, so ignorance is not an excuse, period.

Examples need to be made showing that there is no favoritism at play here, and that NO ONE is exempt from the TOS in this game.

Can you link me the statements? As from what I have seen Jessica's post was the first official statement from them regarding this and outright declaring it's an exploit to use it. If there were others previous and I missed them then I'll agree with you fully.

However this goes back to what I keep poking ZOS about the last couple of days, they have really bad communication in this regard, they don't make it clear to everyone playing the game when something is an exploit and they're going to take action against it.

It's really good they're taking a stand, and I am over the moon about it because I've wanted to see this kind of thing from them for the last two years. However they need to make sure they're doing it in a clear way that everyone can see.

Daganerabus

I am learning how to use this forum.

I AGREE in regards to causing financial ruin. It is NOT NECESSARY. We the gamers; had accepted the pros and cons. However, when the parties involved STOP LISTENING to, and seemingly seem to ignore, the GOOD PPL whom have been, and currently are financially sustaining/supporting ESO and the parties involved, ... IT DOES MATTER significantly.
Especially, for those whom have invested countless hours legitimately in a game; in a product and services they believe in; Only to have it ruined by some individuals. Then to have Eso, Zenimax etc. Sit idly by and do absolutely nothing, ...ACCEPT SCOLD the ones ABIDING by the Rules and trying to keep the community positive, balanced, and legitimate.

The previous ban on a few members appears as if it were a smoke screen, an illusion to make it appear as if they were taking these issues seriously.

A ban pertaining to the BANKER/SURVEY GLITCH. UNLIMITED Nirnhone, both potent and fortified, kutas, rekutas, ores, and sooo much more, including unlimited PERFECT ROE with ALMOST EVERY FISH scaled. Yet, these Known individuals recieved a 1-2 day suspension... and GOT TO KEEP the ENTIRE HARVESTS without it being removed from their respected inventories.

On that note: admittedly, and interestingly, one INDIVIDUAL Did The Glitch under SEVERAL ACCTS, funded his/her main acct. - turned around and then shared the exploit deliberately, then had EVERYONE HE/SHE Knew... from his/her multiple guilds go and COMPLAIN to the FORUMS HERE to deliberately ANGER ESO/ZENIMAX .. to TAKE URGENT ACTION(S) in resolving a serious exploit. Sure enough, and ironically without warning to the MASSES, ALL THE SERVERS were shut down unscheduled for emergency patch. Interestingly enough, even I was tipped 30minutes in advance.

This deliberately well planned scheme by this particular individual, FORCED a COURSE OF ACTION, Thus giving HIM/HER an Edge by temporarily illiminatingl TRADER Competition. THIS INDIVIDUAL ... OPENLY AND PUBLICLY ACKNOWLEDGED THE plannned Scheme and HIS/HER CHEATING repeatedly in OPEN AREA CHAT. And was NEVER BANNED!! Boasts on HOW HE/SHE Won't Get Banned, and is now worth HUNDREDS OF MILLIONS of GOLD... And now considers THEMSELF A GOD in ESO, UNTOUCHABLE.

Furthermore: guess what? They are now so WEALTHY, THAT the INDIVIDUAL is CAPABLE of SHIFTING TENS OF MILLIONS OF GOLD to the APPROPRIATE individuals to ..... oh!... GET THIS!!
**** SELL THE GOLD *** For REAL MONEY!! ahh... but how? Not paypal! But CERTAIN CARDS AND PIN CODES!

I AM SPEAKING FROM PERSONAL FACTS! Personal Knowledge firsthand. sigh.

COMPLETE MANIPULATION! and successful.

These things SHOULD NOT BE ALLOWED to Continue! Oh... but guess what else???
ESO/ZENIMAX Tells THE LEGIT INDIVIDUALS Whom take the time to REPORT the ISSUES... They TELL those whom are "REPORTING" on "HOW TO IGNORE AN INDIVIDUAL" !!

??! Ignoring is NOT going to BALANCE out the GAME FAIRLY for legitimate PLAYERS who CAN NO LONGER... GET or even EVER HAVE an OPPORTUNITY to OBTAIN a TRADER in-game, or to FULLY ENJOY all which this beautiful game has to offer.

However,
There IS A FEW AWESOME SOLUTIONS to QUICKLY RESOLVING the ISSUES... Even "WITHOUT BANNING" The so-called major exploiters.... because MANY of us FEEL that ESO/ZENIMAX ... Does NOT WANT to BAN the Cheaters/exploiters ... and that appears to be made clear. That is the impression many, including myself apparently/currently have.

I PERSONALLY,
Took the time to WRITE ESO/ZENIMAX in regards to the highly potential solutions, and one in PARTICULAR which WOULD SIGNIFICANTLY BENEFIT ZENIMAX both in POPULARITY, And some OTHER IDEAS which ATE LUCRATIVE, Would LITERALLY MAKE MANY FANs HAPPY!

And would LITERALLY INCREASE ZENIMAX'S FINANCIAL QUARTERLIES by at least an APPROXIMATE 30%-45% ... so i estimate.

I had previously, a couple months back submitted this info. Although I was INFORMED that they WOUD NOT ACCEPT unsolicited suggestions... ??? .. but I was ASSURED that the Information was EXCELLENT and therefore would be FORWARDED/SUBMITTED to the APPROPRIATE Person(s) whom would be Very interested in the info/ideas/solutions I offered etc.

Lastly, I even Provided Additional stuff.... which a part is only beinning to surface now.

I apologize for Rambling. Its JUST that, ... I WOULD STRONGLY HATE to SEE A GREAT GAME which has AWESOME FUTURE POTENTIAL..... to .. FALL TO RUINS.

With that said, I BELIEVE that MANY GREAT and LOYAL FANS WOULD AGREE!

pls forgive any typos. and the capalizations is merely my way of expressing emphasis in what i am saying/typing and is by no means meant as *yelling* . That is just the way I Write.

Thank you for reading this, and for your time.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Turelus wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Statements have been made over a month ago by ZOS stating that gap closing into keeps was a bug, and that knowingly using them that way was an exploit. The streamers all use these forums, so ignorance is not an excuse, period.

Examples need to be made showing that there is no favoritism at play here, and that NO ONE is exempt from the TOS in this game.

Can you link me the statements? As from what I have seen Jessica's post was the first official statement from them regarding this and outright declaring it's an exploit to use it. If there were others previous and I missed them then I'll agree with you fully.

However this goes back to what I keep poking ZOS about the last couple of days, they have really bad communication in this regard, they don't make it clear to everyone playing the game when something is an exploit and they're going to take action against it.

It's really good they're taking a stand, and I am over the moon about it because I've wanted to see this kind of thing from them for the last two years. However they need to make sure they're doing it in a clear way that everyone can see.

It was a response to the patch notes for DB. Go back a couple pages I have it quoted here already.

Pomaikai

Turelus wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Statements have been made over a month ago by ZOS stating that gap closing into keeps was a bug, and that knowingly using them that way was an exploit. The streamers all use these forums, so ignorance is not an excuse, period.

Examples need to be made showing that there is no favoritism at play here, and that NO ONE is exempt from the TOS in this game.

Can you link me the statements? As from what I have seen Jessica's post was the first official statement from them regarding this and outright declaring it's an exploit to use it. If there were others previous and I missed them then I'll agree with you fully.

However this goes back to what I keep poking ZOS about the last couple of days, they have really bad communication in this regard, they don't make it clear to everyone playing the game when something is an exploit and they're going to take action against it.

It's really good they're taking a stand, and I am over the moon about it because I've wanted to see this kind of thing from them for the last two years. However they need to make sure they're doing it in a clear way that everyone can see.

It was from May 28th when they first acknowledged gap closing onto keeps and through doors as a method of bypassing normal keep sieging as a bug, and warned people not to do it, and that by doing so they were subject to bans and suspension for violating the TOS. Everyone on that thread just laughed at ZOS, and so the debacle began that FINALLY led up to yesterday's bannings.

I copied the quote in the thread about reinstating the people who were banned for using this exploit.

Turelus

Pomaikai wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Statements have been made over a month ago by ZOS stating that gap closing into keeps was a bug, and that knowingly using them that way was an exploit. The streamers all use these forums, so ignorance is not an excuse, period.

Examples need to be made showing that there is no favoritism at play here, and that NO ONE is exempt from the TOS in this game.

Can you link me the statements? As from what I have seen Jessica's post was the first official statement from them regarding this and outright declaring it's an exploit to use it. If there were others previous and I missed them then I'll agree with you fully.

However this goes back to what I keep poking ZOS about the last couple of days, they have really bad communication in this regard, they don't make it clear to everyone playing the game when something is an exploit and they're going to take action against it.

It's really good they're taking a stand, and I am over the moon about it because I've wanted to see this kind of thing from them for the last two years. However they need to make sure they're doing it in a clear way that everyone can see.

It was from May 28th when they first acknowledged gap closing onto keeps and through doors as a method of bypassing normal keep sieging as a bug, and warned people not to do it, and that by doing so they were subject to bans and suspension for violating the TOS. Everyone on that thread just laughed at ZOS, and so the debacle began that FINALLY led up to yesterday's bannings.

I copied the quote in the thread about reinstating the people who were banned for using this exploit.

Then my apologies and I am with you that those using or who have used it deserve their bans.

I do wish ZOS were clearer on this stuff though and we had pinned threads/warnings or new articles.

Pomaikai

I totally agree. We've been begging ZOS to be transparent about the exploits and start enforcing them for a long time now. They shoulder a lot of the blame here, but by all means not all, because the players involved all made the conscious decision to exploit and cheat.

Elsonso

Pomaikai wrote: »

It was from May 28th when they first acknowledged gap closing onto keeps and through doors as a method of bypassing normal keep sieging as a bug, and warned people not to do it, and that by doing so they were subject to bans and suspension for violating the TOS. Everyone on that thread just laughed at ZOS, and so the debacle began that FINALLY led up to yesterday's bannings.

I copied the quote in the thread about reinstating the people who were banned for using this exploit.

People were banned yesterday? Why was I not informed!

Pomaikai

Yes, our favorite "pocket healer" is taking a well deserved dirt nap. No one knows for how long, but hopefully it's permanent.

Another very active user of that exploit who kept daring ZOS to do something about it in this thread, has been mysteriously missing and quiet as well. I'm certain there were others too. Hopefully they included at least one well known streamer who was bragging about using it, and doing it in his streams as well.

neville_bart0s

Pomaikai wrote: »

Yes, our favorite "pocket healer" is taking a well deserved dirt nap. No one knows for how long, but hopefully it's permanent.

Another very active user of that exploit who kept daring ZOS to do something about it in this thread, has been mysteriously missing and quiet as well. I'm certain there were others too. Hopefully they included at least one well known streamer who was bragging about using it, and doing it in his streams as well.

I could pull up ten youtube videos right now that show people using that exploit. I know a lot of my mates have done it just to try it out, who wouldnt want to shield charge onto a keep?? ive got videos of myself doing it. if they are going to ban people they need to ban at least a quarter of the PVP population because everyone tried it out at least once, and if you didnt than I commend you for staying on your high horse the whole time.

anyone that got banned for gap closing onto keeps will get unbanned, all you need to do is make enough noise and ZOS will back down because they dont have a leg to stand on.

Loralai_907

I am 100% against the whole cheating bit. Anyone using a 3rd party program to better their gaming ability should 100% be permanently banned for all of time. That is actively abusing the system, and has nothing to do with anyone but the players that do it.

However, I look at exploiting slightly differently. Yes, it is against the rules. But, it is a broken in game mechanic. I understood not banning the writ exploiters for all of time, because it was something you pushed out that was broken. I did not at all agree with them keeping their mats, that was totally absurd. You rewarded them for their bad behavior. And the forums were on fire about it. It was said then, that ZOS handled it poorly, and gave many many people the idea that exploiting would result in a minor slap on the wrist and nothing more. It indicated that exploiting would be just fine to do. So in a way, you created this environment. You created the people who think they can exploit and be FINE.

Someone has provided numbers. Someone has also provided how some of the CE banned people were able to have those bans reversed. Rule #1 should without a doubt be if a player uses something like CE, they are gone, no discussion about it, just goodbye. Allowing most of them to come back is insulting to everyone who was a decent enough human being to not use it.

The biggest issue is your lack of consistency and inability to communicate with the public in a proper fashion. You can have the rules that you do in regards to not talking about specifics. But the honest people playing your game, and paying for the game and whatever additional stuff they buy, deserve better. I have said it before. I don't know who is making the calls, but they need help. It shouldn't be this hard for things to happen the right way.