Cheating and Exploits

clayandaudrey_ESO

neville_bart0s wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Yes, our favorite "pocket healer" is taking a well deserved dirt nap. No one knows for how long, but hopefully it's permanent.

Another very active user of that exploit who kept daring ZOS to do something about it in this thread, has been mysteriously missing and quiet as well. I'm certain there were others too. Hopefully they included at least one well known streamer who was bragging about using it, and doing it in his streams as well.

I could pull up ten youtube videos right now that show people using that exploit. I know a lot of my mates have done it just to try it out, who wouldnt want to shield charge onto a keep?? ive got videos of myself doing it. if they are going to ban people they need to ban at least a quarter of the PVP population because everyone tried it out at least once, and if you didnt than I commend you for staying on your high horse the whole time.

anyone that got banned for gap closing onto keeps will get unbanned, all you need to do is make enough noise and ZOS will back down because they dont have a leg to stand on.

Yeah the ToS means nothing.

Turelus

neville_bart0s wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Yes, our favorite "pocket healer" is taking a well deserved dirt nap. No one knows for how long, but hopefully it's permanent.

Another very active user of that exploit who kept daring ZOS to do something about it in this thread, has been mysteriously missing and quiet as well. I'm certain there were others too. Hopefully they included at least one well known streamer who was bragging about using it, and doing it in his streams as well.

I could pull up ten youtube videos right now that show people using that exploit. I know a lot of my mates have done it just to try it out, who wouldnt want to shield charge onto a keep?? ive got videos of myself doing it. if they are going to ban people they need to ban at least a quarter of the PVP population because everyone tried it out at least once, and if you didnt than I commend you for staying on your high horse the whole time.

anyone that got banned for gap closing onto keeps will get unbanned, all you need to do is make enough noise and ZOS will back down because they dont have a leg to stand on.

Firstly I doubt they're going to go back through videos and ban people who did it once to try it or those who didn't make rampant use of it.

Second they have a very good leg to stand on, it's called the Terms of Service which was breeched and as Jessica has stated this is an exploit two days ago as well as apparently earlier in threads then they're pretty covered.

neville_bart0s

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

neville_bart0s wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Yes, our favorite "pocket healer" is taking a well deserved dirt nap. No one knows for how long, but hopefully it's permanent.

Another very active user of that exploit who kept daring ZOS to do something about it in this thread, has been mysteriously missing and quiet as well. I'm certain there were others too. Hopefully they included at least one well known streamer who was bragging about using it, and doing it in his streams as well.

I could pull up ten youtube videos right now that show people using that exploit. I know a lot of my mates have done it just to try it out, who wouldnt want to shield charge onto a keep?? ive got videos of myself doing it. if they are going to ban people they need to ban at least a quarter of the PVP population because everyone tried it out at least once, and if you didnt than I commend you for staying on your high horse the whole time.

anyone that got banned for gap closing onto keeps will get unbanned, all you need to do is make enough noise and ZOS will back down because they dont have a leg to stand on.

Yeah the ToS means nothing.

this is a video game, not a home loan.

they will be unbanned.

neville_bart0s

Turelus wrote: »

neville_bart0s wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Yes, our favorite "pocket healer" is taking a well deserved dirt nap. No one knows for how long, but hopefully it's permanent.

Another very active user of that exploit who kept daring ZOS to do something about it in this thread, has been mysteriously missing and quiet as well. I'm certain there were others too. Hopefully they included at least one well known streamer who was bragging about using it, and doing it in his streams as well.

I could pull up ten youtube videos right now that show people using that exploit. I know a lot of my mates have done it just to try it out, who wouldnt want to shield charge onto a keep?? ive got videos of myself doing it. if they are going to ban people they need to ban at least a quarter of the PVP population because everyone tried it out at least once, and if you didnt than I commend you for staying on your high horse the whole time.

anyone that got banned for gap closing onto keeps will get unbanned, all you need to do is make enough noise and ZOS will back down because they dont have a leg to stand on.

Firstly I doubt they're going to go back through videos and ban people who did it once to try it or those who didn't make rampant use of it.

Second they have a very good leg to stand on, it's called the Terms of Service which was breeched and as Jessica has stated this is an exploit two days ago as well as apparently earlier in threads then they're pretty covered.

do you want to bet??

ill take whatever bet you want. they will be unbanned.

clayandaudrey_ESO

I am sure they will. That is why I will not spend another cent on this game.

And of course it is a video game not a home loan. But it still had a ToS which should he enforced.

Eclipse0990

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom. FYI EP at EU pc are still using this exploit openly. We reported them but let's see if ZOS takes any action. Just Goes to show how much leeway ZOS has given these exploiters.

Pomaikai

neville_bart0s wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Yes, our favorite "pocket healer" is taking a well deserved dirt nap. No one knows for how long, but hopefully it's permanent.

Another very active user of that exploit who kept daring ZOS to do something about it in this thread, has been mysteriously missing and quiet as well. I'm certain there were others too. Hopefully they included at least one well known streamer who was bragging about using it, and doing it in his streams as well.

I could pull up ten youtube videos right now that show people using that exploit. I know a lot of my mates have done it just to try it out, who wouldnt want to shield charge onto a keep?? ive got videos of myself doing it. if they are going to ban people they need to ban at least a quarter of the PVP population because everyone tried it out at least once, and if you didnt than I commend you for staying on your high horse the whole time.

anyone that got banned for gap closing onto keeps will get unbanned, all you need to do is make enough noise and ZOS will back down because they dont have a leg to stand on.

I'm quite happy with them banning half of the PVP population. Really, I am. Trying it out once, and never doing it again? A stern warning is good. However, for repeat offenders, temp to permanent bans are in order. In all cases of temp bans on up, ALL points and AP awarded for the current campaign(s) they are in should be stripped from all of their toons, and they should be removed from the Leaderboards entirely until they return. Any repeat violations following a temp ban should be a permanent ban without recourse of an appeal.

Elsonso

neville_bart0s wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

neville_bart0s wrote: »

Pomaikai wrote: »

Yes, our favorite "pocket healer" is taking a well deserved dirt nap. No one knows for how long, but hopefully it's permanent.

Another very active user of that exploit who kept daring ZOS to do something about it in this thread, has been mysteriously missing and quiet as well. I'm certain there were others too. Hopefully they included at least one well known streamer who was bragging about using it, and doing it in his streams as well.

I could pull up ten youtube videos right now that show people using that exploit. I know a lot of my mates have done it just to try it out, who wouldnt want to shield charge onto a keep?? ive got videos of myself doing it. if they are going to ban people they need to ban at least a quarter of the PVP population because everyone tried it out at least once, and if you didnt than I commend you for staying on your high horse the whole time.

anyone that got banned for gap closing onto keeps will get unbanned, all you need to do is make enough noise and ZOS will back down because they dont have a leg to stand on.

Firstly I doubt they're going to go back through videos and ban people who did it once to try it or those who didn't make rampant use of it.

Second they have a very good leg to stand on, it's called the Terms of Service which was breeched and as Jessica has stated this is an exploit two days ago as well as apparently earlier in threads then they're pretty covered.

do you want to bet??

ill take whatever bet you want. they will be unbanned.

ZOS only permanently bans on third strike anyway. I am sure some people got a 72 hour suspension.

nine9six

Cheat is bad.

#OneThousandthReply

Junipus

Turelus wrote: »

Junipus wrote: »

Turelus wrote: »

A previous game I played did the following when something like this would arise.

• Make a news statement on their website saying a exploit had been identified and warning players not to use it.
• Update the launcher to say a new declared exploit was in the game and linking back to the news article.
• Have the log-in/character selection screen show additional warnings about a new exploit and not to use it.

Not sure how much work is involved in the above but it would go a long way towards improving communication and showing the community at large ZOS is taking a hard stance on cheating/exploiting as well as giving everyone within the game a fair warning as to stop this without having to dig up the above quote and share it every time someone says it's not an exploit.

A noble endeavor and request, however each of the three above would likely be longer than the TOS and require ZOS to:

- Catalogue the number of exploits in their game
- Admit that there were/are a large number of exploits
- Police those exploits, reporting and enforcement actions
- Admit to the scale of previous/ongoing exploiting and cheating
- Prioritise bug fixing and other maintenance issues over pumping out DLC, something which i sincerely doubt ZOS has the financial capacity to do at this stage.

I'd love them to do it just as much as the next delusionally optimistic fan, but reality is shoving itself pretty unceremoniously in my face quite hard.

@Junipus I don't mean this for every past exploit I mean it when something comes up so everyone in the community knows that something is happening. There are people who are still using gap closers because as far as they know it's fair game, as every other exploit like it has been.

It's not going to take days of work for ZOS to write something like this: https://community.eveonline.com/news/news-channels/eve-online-news/drone-damage-exploit-notification/ as a news link or even a forums post (which is pinned) then have an update on the launcher/log-in screen to link back to it.

If it would take ZOS days of work then maybe this is part of the internal changes they need to address to fight cheating/exploiting.

If they're able to update the launcher to tell us about new 5,000 Crown Mounts I am sure they're able to update it to warn people about cheating/exploiting

I understand where you're coming from, but from a practical standpoint they would need to find and list every existing exploit in the game. This would include ones that are very well known and ones that no-one would even be aware of and catalogue them internally before sharing their existence with the playerbase. Again, I'm all for it, but I doubt ZOS would have the resources or the inclination from middle management to pull that off.

moiraleafcull

My initial hope that ZOS was truly serious about enforcing the TOS was completely shattered upon logging in and seeing that someone who had been reported multiple times by multiple people and banned was not only back in game but wearing the title of Emperor. This is complete and total ***.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_anyone care to comment.

Elsonso

moiraleafcull wrote: »

My initial hope that ZOS was truly serious about enforcing the TOS was completely shattered upon logging in and seeing that someone who had been reported multiple times by multiple people and banned was not only back in game but wearing the title of Emperor. This is complete and total ***.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_anyone care to comment.

The important thing is whether they stop cheating after their suspension.

Rohamad_Ali

It's a simple policy .

Turelus

lordrichter wrote: »

moiraleafcull wrote: »

My initial hope that ZOS was truly serious about enforcing the TOS was completely shattered upon logging in and seeing that someone who had been reported multiple times by multiple people and banned was not only back in game but wearing the title of Emperor. This is complete and total ***.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_GaryA @ZOS_anyone care to comment.

The important thing is whether they stop cheating after their suspension.

Pretty much this. There is nothing wrong with only suspending accounts on the first offence if people are learning from it.

Although as I have said over and over, we also need to make sure they didn't benefit from it with assets.

Sophieous

Are you people serious? You want people who gap close to get in a keep (which btw requires someone naive enough to stand on a grate or the edge of a wall to do so), permabanned, instead of telling off ZOS, who have kept such a bug in the game for so long? Permabanned though, is more or less ridiculous.

You blame the players for ZOS' mistakes? It's not like they were using CE to fly on the keep, or to gain lots of expensive mats and gold and be in advantage of others?

How can this be in advantage of others? Genuinely everyone can do it? How can people be so malicious?

I'd rather they implemented in the game, as a mechanic, rather than ban players for using the BUG THEY CREATED.

I'm never gonna report a single player for doing it, hope they bring it in the game permanently and if they don't, and carry on considering it as a bug, it should be fixed asap.

Enodoc

Sophieous wrote: »

I'm never gonna report a single player for doing it, hope they bring it in the game permanently and if they don't, and carry on considering it as a bug, it should be fixed asap.

Not reporting exploiters is also a violation of the Terms of Service.

Turelus

@Sophieous because this has been going on for two years now. Where every single bug in the game is abused and ruins the competitive aspects of the game as well as many players enjoyment.

Ask yourself honestly, if someone found a bug that would let them be permanently invisible in PvP and they used that to kill you or capture keeps over and over. Would you enjoy that and say "ZOS made the bug and everyone can do it, so it's fine".

We don't get to pick and choose exploits because of is everyone can do it and how much it effects our gameplay. Also end of the day you can't be angry at players for now wanting to enforce this, as ZOS have openly stated it's an exploit, that means no debates, doing it is illegal now and you may be banned.

Sophieous

Enodoc wrote: »

Not reporting exploiters is also a violation of the Terms of Service.

I don't see them as exploiters nor cheaters. It's a bug(not a big one either) in the game that the company should fix.

@Turelus I agree to some extent, but being invisible to using an ability that everyone's got differs in my eyes.

I see it the same as in gap closing FROM a keep to a player below. I honestly don't mind it being in the game.

I don't agree with the company banning people cus they f****d up and I also don't agree with the players defending the bans so passionately, without saying a word for the company itself.

But that's just my opinion.

Turelus

It doesn't matter if you see them as cheaters/exploiters. ZOS does and have now very clearly said so and even banned people for it.

Accidental using it then sure the person can hop off the wall and play fair. Using it to get inside keeps and cause chaos like the now banned player/s have done is very much a big impact and exploit. The later are the ones to be reported, the others should just be notified.

The entire point of a ToS and banning people who abuse bugs is because companies will and do mess up all the time.

Also ZOS has a strike system for their bans (or so it seems) meaning if this is a first time offence and you didn't outright smack players and ZOS both in game and on the forums you will probably only get a slap on the wrist 72 hour ban.

However whether people like this being in the game or not this has been deemed an exploit and the first one in a very long time ZOS has shown some enforcement of. If this continues then we may finally see Cyrodiil return to the enjoyable days of old rather than the cheat/exploit until it's fixed meta it's been for the last year.

Enodoc

Sophieous wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Not reporting exploiters is also a violation of the Terms of Service.

I don't see them as exploiters nor cheaters. It's a bug(not a big one either) in the game that the company should fix.

As Turelus said, what you see them as is irrelevant. ZOS have stated that it's an exploit, and you are required to report exploits as part of the Terms of Service.

DeadDealer

hey guys! i want to tel lyou smthin interesting about bans
maybe

my guildmate was a cheater/exploiter and he got a permaban

his email was like this:

Greetings,

This account has violated the Code of Conduct and Terms of Service by Exploiting. As stated in Section 8 of our Terms of Service:

Except as prohibited by applicable law and subject to the Statutory Obligations (as defined in Section 1), ZeniMax has the right, in its sole discretion, to modify, restrict, suspend, or terminate Your access to the Services. As noted above, this could result because (i) Your information is untrue, inaccurate, not complete or incomplete; (ii) Your activities infringe on or are suspected to infringe on another's rights or any intellectual property; (iii) ZeniMax in its sole discretion determined that You or Your Account reflects inappropriate Content; or (iv) You or activities taken under or with Your Account violate these Terms of Service. Other Supplemental Terms pertaining to Your Service and/or Game, such as a Code of Conduct, provide guidance on behavior that ZeniMax deems to be inappropriate and specify restrictions on Your Account, Your use of the Game, or Your participation in the Services.

You agree not to use any Service to:

· Promote, upload, transmit, encourage or take part in any activity involving hacking, cracking, phishing, taking advantage of exploits or cheats and/or distribution of counterfeit software and/or Virtual Currency or virtual items. In an effort to continuously improve the Services, You and other players discovering exploits, cheats, cracks or other inconsistencies are required to report them to ZeniMax;

As a result, we regret to inform you that this account has been permanently disabled and will no longer be eligible to participate in any Zenimax Online services.

Warm Regards,
The Elder Scrolls Online Team

after this he asked can he start a new account, or ZOZ marked his pc and ip as fraudulent and he will not able to play even with new acc?

the answer was positive:

Greetings,

You are welcome to start a new account. As long as there are no violations of our Terms of Service, you will have no problems.

Thanks,
****

Turelus

Generally I have not known a company to out right block someone coming back on a new account.

It's very rare that someone is removed from the games community for good. The penalty they face is they lost everything they worked for previously, and you hope that's a lesson learned for them to not do it again.

DeadDealer

Turelus wrote: »

Generally I have not known a company to out right block someone coming back on a new account.

It's very rare that someone is removed from the games community for good. The penalty they face is they lost everything they worked for previously, and you hope that's a lesson learned for them to not do it again.

blizzard and overwatch for example

Sharee

Turelus wrote: »

Generally I have not known a company to out right block someone coming back on a new account

Blizzard, Overwatch: https://www.vg247.com/2016/06/03/overwatch-perma-bans-really-are-permanent/

Sophieous

I'm not gonna sit there and observe for WHEN a person does that so I can report it to ZOS. It's not my job. Pretty much everyone on EU PC does it. Let's report the whole server and get them permabanned for a click that was caused by them and which they refuse to fix.

Elsonso

Sophieous wrote: »

Are you people serious? You want people who gap close to get in a keep (which btw requires someone naive enough to stand on a grate or the edge of a wall to do so), permabanned, instead of telling off ZOS, who have kept such a bug in the game for so long? Permabanned though, is more or less ridiculous.

You blame the players for ZOS' mistakes? It's not like they were using CE to fly on the keep, or to gain lots of expensive mats and gold and be in advantage of others?

How can this be in advantage of others? Genuinely everyone can do it? How can people be so malicious?

I'd rather they implemented in the game, as a mechanic, rather than ban players for using the BUG THEY CREATED.

I'm never gonna report a single player for doing it, hope they bring it in the game permanently and if they don't, and carry on considering it as a bug, it should be fixed asap.

First, just to be clear, I am not in favor of permanent bans for this type of exploit, unless they take an attitude of "if the game allows it, I will do it, no matter what" and they just keep doing it.

The thing about bugs that turn into exploits is that the blame cannot be placed on one party. It goes to both ZOS and the players. Both are doing something they should not be doing, and both need to correct it.

ZOS should be giving priority to fixing bugs that turn into exploits. I don't know how things work behind the curtain, but it always appears like bugs get a low priority until they turn into something big. After that, they scramble to fix them, but it could take weeks for the fix to get out. They can't reliably predict every bug that will turn into an exploit, so this is never perfect, but it always seems like they wait until the bug is A Thing before they jump on it.

Meanwhile, players that are using exploits because the game allows it are a problem. The problem is not the players who do not know it is an exploit, but the players who do know, or at least suspect, that it is an exploit and keep using it. Anyone with the attitude that they can use a known exploit because the game allows it does deserve to be suspended or banned. The people who are unaware that they are using an exploit need to be told so that they can stop using it.

To that end, ZOS needs to be clear about exploits and whether people should be using them while they are being fixed. Instead of sitting there being silent, they need to take action and communicate the situation, and they need to do it in a timely manner and where it is not buried 70 comments into some thread. They need a stickied discussion posted as soon as they decide that something being discussed in the forum is an exploit that needs to be fixed telling people not to use it. They need to issue warnings when it is used in the game to make sure that the people who are using it who may not have gotten the message know that it is not to be done. These warnings are just informal warnings, not strikes. They need to suspend, or ban, those people who continue to use it while it is being fixed.

The other side of this is when they have a bug that can exploit something andnthey are ok with people doing it while it is being fixed, or have no plans to fix it. They still need to stop treating it silently, especially if there is a raging debate about whether it is an exploit or not. Just like with exploits they don't want people using, they need to let people know in a timely fashion that it is OK.

KingMagaw

Enodoc wrote: »

Sophieous wrote: »

I'm never gonna report a single player for doing it, hope they bring it in the game permanently and if they don't, and carry on considering it as a bug, it should be fixed asap.

Not reporting exploiters is also a violation of the Terms of Service.

To be honest mate - No one is going to FORCE me to squander more time in continually reporting people. People have been using gap closers for the longest time and now Zo$ want us to pay for the game and police it and test it?, bad joke there mate.

I also think its a disgrace they couldn't send an in game mail, or article in news section of launcher or log in screen to UPDATE people on there change of heart considering this could be done for months and months.

Even i am wondering what i can and cant do in the game, when what you 'cant' do you shouldn't be able to do.

My last 2 support tickets were sorry we cant help you. First one was for a bug in IC where you can fall through the scenery, i can replicate the issue and lost a lot of tel var getting home. What a waste of my time, wont happen again.

Rohamad_Ali

Enodoc wrote: »

Sophieous wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

Not reporting exploiters is also a violation of the Terms of Service.

I don't see them as exploiters nor cheaters. It's a bug(not a big one either) in the game that the company should fix.

As Turelus said, what you see them as is irrelevant. ZOS have stated that it's an exploit, and you are required to report exploits as part of the Terms of Service.

Sounds like a bad season finale of Sienfeld ...

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=zPnK0NCn_MQ

DeadDealer

Enodoc wrote: »

Sophieous wrote: »

I'm never gonna report a single player for doing it, hope they bring it in the game permanently and if they don't, and carry on considering it as a bug, it should be fixed asap.

Not reporting exploiters is also a violation of the Terms of Service.

@Enodoc lol?
we are not in USSR, man

we will report or not report, its on our consideration

Elsonso

Enodoc wrote: »

you are required to report exploits as part of the Terms of Service.

I will do this once, if I see it and have the information available. After that, they own the problem and I get on with my life. I pay to play their game, not chase down bugs and players that exploit the game. If it is "on my way" and I am able to provide more detailed information, I am happy to contribute, but it is not my purpose in the game.