Cheating and Exploits

Tavore1138

lordrichter wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

So just for those of us who are behind - they banned a few people for running too fast but are still allowing people to jump into inner keeps and take them from the inside?

We know that people were recently suspended for speed hacking. We do not know what it was that caused the suspension, whether it was "running too fast" or something else. Everything in this thread, and similar threads, speculating about these suspensions is anecdotal, at best. Reliability of the testimonials will be suspect as it is possible the there are both liars and truth tellers in the mix.

The exploit for the keep walls is related to a game function that is separate from this most recent event.

I pass no judgement on whether those accused of speed hacking were justly suspended - I have certainly seen a few people moving at improbably speeds. More commenting that this is possibly not as urgent a case as the cheats that are impacting on actual competitive play.

There are both exploits and cheats for keep walls actually - we are seeing both. i.e. DKs have been getting onto outer walls forever and we learn to live with it... other classes doing it and anyone at all getting into the inner keeps is not simply exploiting afaik.

Mureel

Animal_Mother wrote: »

Part of anti-cheating enforcement should include education as to what is considered cheating in the game. I feel sorry for those improperly suspended by ZOS on Friday; some may not have known what was bad or not.

For example, one item that's been buried by two years of forum posts, is that keyboard and mouse macro software have been considered third-party software and have been flagged as cheats by ZOS' anti-cheat package in the past. If you are using them - turn them off. If you need them on for a good reason (such as a disability), contact customer support.

Oh my God. Like everyone on that thread EXCEPT ONE literally said they used no hack software and were playing as normal.

As normal means using only stuff in the game as normal.

These were ALL FOR SPEEDHACKING when EVERYONE but One who admitted using CE in the past, is saying um no, Of Course I didn't use that.

In my case, what macro would I even need for Blade of Woe? It's ONE KEY.

Removed quoted content that was removed

dennissomb16_ESO

If players keep fighting /accusing in this thread ZOS will use it as an excuse to close up the thread. There are always going to be people who don't believe others when it comes to forums. What we need to do is keep posting around ZOS's response to the cheating and not fighting with each other so we can keep this alive until real and ACCURATE actions are taken by ZOS to combat the cheating in game

ZOS_DaryaK

We've removed some posts that were not constructive to this discussion or baiting. Please keep your posts civil and avoid accusing other members of the community of malfeasance.

clayandaudrey_ESO

Mureel wrote: »

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

Don't blame Roechacca for his frustration. Many of us are upset at the cheating. And people get snappy when they are frustrated. They also make bad decisions when they are frustrated. Decisions like getting bad tattoos. But Roechaca you do need to ease up on the tone and try to be a little nicer.
I think in R/L you might be cool to hang with and share a pint o stout. To some your posts are abrasive. Probably not your intent.
I am in game right now you bearded DC Mutt I will find you and heal you to death. Currently looking at the map DC is ready to lose Aleswell to us the Mighty Dominion!!!! Get ready !!!

P.S. I am going to troll Siege Glade...

Fair enough but all the PVP cheating is not the same at all as people literally playing alone, doing solo stuff, nowhere near Cyro, and being accused of BS by a machine for walking around, stealthing and pressing X.

It is just bogus to be treated like dirt by a complete stranger when I am a person who has supported this from the start and would never do this sort of thing.

It is latency spikes in my case. I posted the email from zos in the other thread.

Are you aware that cheat engine was originally created for single player games? Please don't be naive enough to think this is limited to the PVP community and Cyrodiil.

Mureel

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

Don't blame Roechacca for his frustration. Many of us are upset at the cheating. And people get snappy when they are frustrated. They also make bad decisions when they are frustrated. Decisions like getting bad tattoos. But Roechaca you do need to ease up on the tone and try to be a little nicer.
I think in R/L you might be cool to hang with and share a pint o stout. To some your posts are abrasive. Probably not your intent.
I am in game right now you bearded DC Mutt I will find you and heal you to death. Currently looking at the map DC is ready to lose Aleswell to us the Mighty Dominion!!!! Get ready !!!

P.S. I am going to troll Siege Glade...

Fair enough but all the PVP cheating is not the same at all as people literally playing alone, doing solo stuff, nowhere near Cyro, and being accused of BS by a machine for walking around, stealthing and pressing X.

It is just bogus to be treated like dirt by a complete stranger when I am a person who has supported this from the start and would never do this sort of thing.

It is latency spikes in my case. I posted the email from zos in the other thread.

Are you aware that cheat engine was originally created for single player games? Please don't be naive enough to think this is limited to the PVP community and Cyrodiil.

No I wasn't I never heard of the name of it until AFTER Friday because I don't really follow PVP issues much.

Also, I only played like Skyrim, Oblivion, Morrowind in that order, Witchers, and DA:I and that's about it other than skylanders with my sons xD

Egonieser

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

Don't blame Roechacca for his frustration. Many of us are upset at the cheating. And people get snappy when they are frustrated. They also make bad decisions when they are frustrated. Decisions like getting bad tattoos. But Roechaca you do need to ease up on the tone and try to be a little nicer.
I think in R/L you might be cool to hang with and share a pint o stout. To some your posts are abrasive. Probably not your intent.
I am in game right now you bearded DC Mutt I will find you and heal you to death. Currently looking at the map DC is ready to lose Aleswell to us the Mighty Dominion!!!! Get ready !!!

P.S. I am going to troll Siege Glade...

Fair enough but all the PVP cheating is not the same at all as people literally playing alone, doing solo stuff, nowhere near Cyro, and being accused of BS by a machine for walking around, stealthing and pressing X.

It is just bogus to be treated like dirt by a complete stranger when I am a person who has supported this from the start and would never do this sort of thing.

It is latency spikes in my case. I posted the email from zos in the other thread.

Are you aware that cheat engine was originally created for single player games? Please don't be naive enough to think this is limited to the PVP community and Cyrodiil.

No, but is most beneficial in PvP and other competitive areas like trials etc where score is involved, and that is where it's most damaging and obvious.

SirAndy

I'm just gonna leave another one of these here:

Mureel

SirAndy wrote: »

I'm just gonna leave another one of these here:

Why?

clayandaudrey_ESO

Egonieser wrote: »

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Thalmor-Nordmaster wrote: »

Don't blame Roechacca for his frustration. Many of us are upset at the cheating. And people get snappy when they are frustrated. They also make bad decisions when they are frustrated. Decisions like getting bad tattoos. But Roechaca you do need to ease up on the tone and try to be a little nicer.
I think in R/L you might be cool to hang with and share a pint o stout. To some your posts are abrasive. Probably not your intent.
I am in game right now you bearded DC Mutt I will find you and heal you to death. Currently looking at the map DC is ready to lose Aleswell to us the Mighty Dominion!!!! Get ready !!!

P.S. I am going to troll Siege Glade...

Fair enough but all the PVP cheating is not the same at all as people literally playing alone, doing solo stuff, nowhere near Cyro, and being accused of BS by a machine for walking around, stealthing and pressing X.

It is just bogus to be treated like dirt by a complete stranger when I am a person who has supported this from the start and would never do this sort of thing.

It is latency spikes in my case. I posted the email from zos in the other thread.

Are you aware that cheat engine was originally created for single player games? Please don't be naive enough to think this is limited to the PVP community and Cyrodiil.

No, but is most beneficial in PvP and other competitive areas like trials etc where score is involved, and that is where it's most damaging and obvious.

And other areas like farming mats.

SirAndy

Mureel wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I'm just gonna leave another one of these here:

Why?

Because people getting banned for speed hacking when in fact they didn't cheat at all but rather used simple in-game mechanics to speed up their movement.

This is the exact reason why we need server side validation instead of this trusted client mess.
If the server keeps track of all your stats and gear, it's trivial for the server to know what your possible max. speed can be and there would be no "false positives" for speed hacking.

It's really not rocket surgery people ...

Sharee

SirAndy wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I'm just gonna leave another one of these here:

Why?

Because people getting banned for speed hacking when in fact they didn't cheat at all but rather used simple in-game mechanics to speed up their movement.

How do you know? Because they told you?

What is stopping a real speedhacker from claiming he was just an innocent victim?

Mureel

Sharee wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I'm just gonna leave another one of these here:

Why?

Because people getting banned for speed hacking when in fact they didn't cheat at all but rather used simple in-game mechanics to speed up their movement.

How do you know? Because they told you?

What is stopping a real speedhacker from claiming he was just an innocent victim?

lol because everyone speedhacks when you need the exact opposite like if you're stealthing around killing people in RawlKha for 1 example.
Please.

Also, look how MANY people who thought it was the login server down at first - too many for it to be coincidence.

Sharee

Mureel wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I'm just gonna leave another one of these here:

Why?

Because people getting banned for speed hacking when in fact they didn't cheat at all but rather used simple in-game mechanics to speed up their movement.

How do you know? Because they told you?

What is stopping a real speedhacker from claiming he was just an innocent victim?

lol because everyone speedhacks when you need the exact opposite like if you're stealthing around killing people in RawlKha for 1 example.
Please.

I didn't say everyone speedhacks. Because i have no way to check whether that is true or not.

But, that blade cuts both ways. You have no way to know whether someone claiming to be unjustly banned is speaking the truth or not. Only ZOS knows for sure, and they ain't telling.

And thus, things like "in fact they did not cheat at all" should not be thrown around like it was a fact, because it isn't.

Mureel

Sharee wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I'm just gonna leave another one of these here:

Why?

Because people getting banned for speed hacking when in fact they didn't cheat at all but rather used simple in-game mechanics to speed up their movement.

How do you know? Because they told you?

What is stopping a real speedhacker from claiming he was just an innocent victim?

lol because everyone speedhacks when you need the exact opposite like if you're stealthing around killing people in RawlKha for 1 example.
Please.

I didn't say everyone speedhacks. Because i have no way to check whether that is true or not.

But, that blade cuts both ways. You have no way to know whether someone claiming to be unjustly banned is speaking the truth or not. Only ZOS knows for sure, and they ain't telling.

And thus, things like "in fact they did not cheat at all" should not be thrown around like it was a fact, because it isn't.

They don't know for SURE that's the problem. :-)

Sharee

Mureel wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Sharee wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I'm just gonna leave another one of these here:

Why?

Because people getting banned for speed hacking when in fact they didn't cheat at all but rather used simple in-game mechanics to speed up their movement.

How do you know? Because they told you?

What is stopping a real speedhacker from claiming he was just an innocent victim?

lol because everyone speedhacks when you need the exact opposite like if you're stealthing around killing people in RawlKha for 1 example.
Please.

I didn't say everyone speedhacks. Because i have no way to check whether that is true or not.

But, that blade cuts both ways. You have no way to know whether someone claiming to be unjustly banned is speaking the truth or not. Only ZOS knows for sure, and they ain't telling.

And thus, things like "in fact they did not cheat at all" should not be thrown around like it was a fact, because it isn't.

They don't know for SURE that's the problem. :-)

They are hell of a lot more sure than any of us ever will be. Access to server logs, and all that.

Rohamad_Ali

Hopefully Monday we will here from @ZOS_JessicaFolsom about these latest bans since we can discuss them openly now on the forums .

Animal_Mother

Mureel wrote: »

Animal_Mother wrote: »

Part of anti-cheating enforcement should include education as to what is considered cheating in the game. I feel sorry for those improperly suspended by ZOS on Friday; some may not have known what was bad or not.

For example, one item that's been buried by two years of forum posts, is that keyboard and mouse macro software have been considered third-party software and have been flagged as cheats by ZOS' anti-cheat package in the past. If you are using them - turn them off. If you need them on for a good reason (such as a disability), contact customer support.

Oh my God. Like everyone on that thread EXCEPT ONE literally said they used no hack software and were playing as normal.

As normal means using only stuff in the game as normal.

These were ALL FOR SPEEDHACKING when EVERYONE but One who admitted using CE in the past, is saying um no, Of Course I didn't use that.

In my case, what macro would I even need for Blade of Woe? It's ONE KEY.

Removed quoted content that was removed

This thread is far more encompassing than the current speedhack suspensions.

All I wanted to say, was that unless players have been following the forums everyday for the past 2 years, they may have know idea what ZOS considers cheating or exploiting. As an example, if I go out and buy that nice MMO mouse with 120 buttons that has 12 separate LEDs that can be programmed to glow when I'm being attacked when AFK - I might be considered by ZOS to using 3rd party software the moment I program a macro to wave at my friends using button 47.

There really needs to be a consolidation of information as to what is considered a hack or exploits.

If one reads the forums, using a gap closer to scale walls may be considered an exploit; in game (if you haven't read the forums) it's just a broken mechanic that hasn't been fixed, yet.

Mureel

Animal_Mother wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

Animal_Mother wrote: »

Part of anti-cheating enforcement should include education as to what is considered cheating in the game. I feel sorry for those improperly suspended by ZOS on Friday; some may not have known what was bad or not.

For example, one item that's been buried by two years of forum posts, is that keyboard and mouse macro software have been considered third-party software and have been flagged as cheats by ZOS' anti-cheat package in the past. If you are using them - turn them off. If you need them on for a good reason (such as a disability), contact customer support.

Oh my God. Like everyone on that thread EXCEPT ONE literally said they used no hack software and were playing as normal.

As normal means using only stuff in the game as normal.

These were ALL FOR SPEEDHACKING when EVERYONE but One who admitted using CE in the past, is saying um no, Of Course I didn't use that.

In my case, what macro would I even need for Blade of Woe? It's ONE KEY.

Removed quoted content that was removed

This thread is far more encompassing than the current speedhack suspensions.

All I wanted to say, was that unless players have been following the forums everyday for the past 2 years, they may have know idea what ZOS considers cheating or exploiting. As an example, if I go out and buy that nice MMO mouse with 120 buttons that has 12 separate LEDs that can be programmed to glow when I'm being attacked when AFK - I might be considered by ZOS to using 3rd party software the moment I program a macro to wave at my friends using button 47.

There really needs to be a consolidation of information as to what is considered a hack or exploits.

If one reads the forums, using a gap closer to scale walls may be considered an exploit; in game (if you haven't read the forums) it's just a broken mechanic that hasn't been fixed, yet.

Oh I see what you mean - yeah. Fair enough.

Mureel

SirAndy wrote: »

Mureel wrote: »

SirAndy wrote: »

I'm just gonna leave another one of these here:

Why?

Because people getting banned for speed hacking when in fact they didn't cheat at all but rather used simple in-game mechanics to speed up their movement.

This is the exact reason why we need server side validation instead of this trusted client mess.
If the server keeps track of all your stats and gear, it's trivial for the server to know what your possible max. speed can be and there would be no "false positives" for speed hacking.

It's really not rocket surgery people ...

Oh ok yes totally agree.

altemriel

Tekyn wrote: »

Mostly people just want to know what possible justification there is for second chances when someone is hacking the game client. It's not like you do that on accident. "My bad, didn't know I wasn't supposed to do that." Or the classic "My little brother/friend was on my account!". That one comes out a lot when the ban hammer hits. Defending a ToS violation with another ToS violation.

Personally I'd rather just have a ban-list for perma-banned players, with a section for appeals. I'm not sure why that level of transparency is bad.

yes, i`d like to see the reasons why xxxx (anonymized) people got unbanned, seriously.

HoloYoitsu

Has there been any substantive ZOS response yet?

Rohamad_Ali

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Has there been any substantive ZOS response yet?

Nothing more then cryptic messages about third party programs are grounds for permanent bans on ESO Live .

LastAmbushOnEarth

i googled and i found one answer like a year ago someone posted his email from ZOS:

. When we receive a botting report, we typically send a Gamemaster in game to witness the behavior and run a few standard tests. These tests confirm whether a specific behavior is automated. If an account is witnessed for botting in game by a Gamemaster, then the account is subject to a 72 hour suspension. If the account continues to violate our Terms of Service by engaging in the botting behavior, the account is suspended again. The third violation results in an account ban.

Bromburak

HoloYoitsu wrote: »

Has there been any substantive ZOS response yet?

Yes, all customers are guilty until proven innocence, confirmed by silence.

DHale

Yeah seriously ppl got banned this weekend for using overload as their magic was coming back too fast you need to open investigation not auto ban ppl. You are going from one extreme to the other.

Egonieser

LastAmbushOnEarth wrote: »

i googled and i found one answer like a year ago someone posted his email from ZOS:

. When we receive a botting report, we typically send a Gamemaster in game to witness the behavior and run a few standard tests. These tests confirm whether a specific behavior is automated. If an account is witnessed for botting in game by a Gamemaster, then the account is subject to a 72 hour suspension. If the account continues to violate our Terms of Service by engaging in the botting behavior, the account is suspended again. The third violation results in an account ban.

Yeah, botting is one of the lesser crimes in this game. Don't think the same applies for hacking - they said it clearly it's a permanent ban (never happened anyway). But this is about their automated system because people were suspended all at the same time and I hardly believe there was a GM there watching them all at the same time, besides if they did - these suspensions wouldn't have happened as nothing was violated in the first place.
However in regards to CE users - that is barely something you can hide so let the banhammer rain upon them.
This isn't a plea for ZoS to take mercy on hackers, but for them to sort out their detection system they put in place on Friday (or whenever they did it last week) so it does a much better job of identifying who IS cheating and who ISN'T.

NobleNerd

DHale wrote: »

Yeah seriously ppl got banned this weekend for using overload as their magic was coming back too fast you need to open investigation not auto ban ppl. You are going from one extreme to the other.

When you are running on limited number of developers/workers in house having things automated sounds good in the boardroom. When it hits the live servers on a Friday it becomes D-Day!

Come Monday I will be grabbing some popcorn and reading the ***-storm that will take place in the forums!

Right now I am glad I am just watching this from afar. Not looking like I will be coming back to the game anytime soon. That all depends on how ZOS handles things the next couple of weeks.

rfennell_ESO

Heh for every CE hacker like the guy who got caught tearing off into the sunset at ludicrous speed.

There were a whole bunch more that had cranked it up just a bit to fly under the radar.

People can sit there are their likely dirty keyboards complaining they did nothing wrong all they want... but, man... I've seen enough people moving at major expedition + sprint speed faster than me and for unlimited duration. Nearly every of the dodge roll or dodge 90% of attacks "head for the tree" gankers was faster than major expedition + sprint and never ran out of stamina doing it. I've seen it, we've all seen it, so many people have seen the bs that for people to really start denying it was and is still occurring is laughable.

Have you ever seen someone that was banned admit to fault? I've been playing mmo's for a long time and there has been episodes of cheating, exploiting and hacking in all of them, I have yet to see someone own up to it. It's always boo hoo hoo, whoa is me, I've been unfairly banned.

Trust the words of people you have little to no reason to believe or any way of really knowing what they are up to OR trust your eyes. Hey, if some "innocents" got a ban... I guess that sucks, good thing it's not permanent. But how many are really innocent when everyone caught is busy claiming they did nothing wrong?

Manpoints

My previous post telling hackers to get rekt got removed, guess it hurt feelings.

But yeah, bans went out mainly in certain circles (obvious why)
They are investigating those temp bans to extend manually (good, and you obviously did something)
Trying to post up 'false positive' on a game like this doesn't work as there's no anti cheat searching your 8TB computer for hacks that you've never used in this game (only things you did with eso)


I would like to see these bans increase, first round 3 days? Fine, investigate the abusers and make them perm, everyone from this point, perm imo.