Templars are not scaling correctly on console

ManDraKE

Someone forgot to merge the commit with the jabs fix on the XBOX and PS4 branches

Sargentwilko51

Has this been tested on Biting Jabs as well?

Uriel_Nocturne

I would love an update on ZOS's investigation into this. My MagTemplar just isn't doing the damage that he should be since this isn't giving the needed bonuses from Thaumaturge.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert any news from your end, guys?

In my experience, Thaumaturge isn't helping with any of the Morphs for jabs. No matter the Morph, having the points in Thaumaturge or Mighty isn't changing the damage one bit. Still recording the same damage numbers regardless of where the champion points are allocated.

Edit = until Thaumaturge gets fixed, those points are simply going to have to go into the Apprentice constellation. It's the only way I can get my damage to respectable numbers.

Also; could you guys reverse whatever you did to Explosive Charge? It looks wonky now, and doesn't seem like it's hitting right...

Averya_Teira

Peekachu99 wrote: »

Seems fine. Damage went up and base damage looks okay. The animations and stuff are slower though. I kinda like it, tbh.

People posted actual proof it's not fine above you.... you're not helping lol...

Trenia

- When allocating 100 points in thaum only my sweeps hit for X Crit and X non Crit.

- when allocating 100 points into Mighty (should have no effect on sweep damage which is Magicka based) my damage is X Crit and X non-Crit.

- from this simple test above we can see that putting points into thaumaturge DOES NOT increase the damage of puncturing sweeps. ZOS has stated many times before that channels and abilties such as sweeps, twisting path, wall of elements, meteor ground burn, arrow barrage, and other abilties that have LARGE numbers still count as a DoT. Orange DoT numbers only appear on single target dots that "glue" to the enemy such as burning embers, rending slashes, dawnbreaker, etc.

- conclusion: puncturing strikes and its morphs do not have their damage increased by thaumaturge. This is likely a mistake introduced when trying to stop abilties like proximity detonation or curse. From being buffed by thaum, please fix this ASAP as it invalidates Magicka Templars and stamina Templars as competitive DPS compared to other classes. It also creates a large disadvantage in PvP for those using these abilities due to improper scaling.
-Driveby40


@ZOS_JessicaFolsom @ZOS_RichLambert @ZOS_GinaBruno
Can you tell us if you are looking into doing anything about this?

NewBlacksmurf

If u want damage on this use magic.
Don't use Stam.

Not sure that's it's broken it just seems the change is best for magic

Panth141

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If u want damage on this use magic.
Don't use Stam.

Not sure that's it's broken it just seems the change is best for magic

@NewBlacksmurf

What?

The magicka morph - puncturing sweeps - isn't scaling with thaum. as it should be, meaning reduced damage. From the reports of others is seems that biting jabs is in the same situation - both the magicka and stamina morph appear to be bugged.

kalishnikov89

@Panth141 Yeah I can definitely confirm that jabs/sweep is not working as intended. My 73 into thaumaturge isn't adding nothing. So for now I just went 73 elfborn and 73 elem expt. Not hitting as hard as I should. With 4100 spll dmg all buffed it took a while before I crit a 6.9k with a puncturing sweep. Guess I should stop respeccing cp and just wait for a fix.

NewBlacksmurf

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If u want damage on this use magic.
Don't use Stam.

Not sure that's it's broken it just seems the change is best for magic

@NewBlacksmurf

What?

The magicka morph - puncturing sweeps - isn't scaling with thaum. as it should be, meaning reduced damage. From the reports of others is seems that biting jabs is in the same situation - both the magicka and stamina morph appear to be bugged.

The damage is "X" per strike 4 times as magic damage even tho it says channeled it can be interrupted or stopped so because of this, my understanding is that in the new changes to combat, it's not a DOT.

On the reset I'm now using elemental expert for the magic damage.


A DOT per the update that would use Thaum would be Reflective Light, Dark Flare, Purifying Light, Radiant Oppresion as those talk about damage of a certain type of X amount of seconds.

The only DOT for Punchuring Sweep is movement speed reduction so No you're not going to get extra damage from that.


Make sense?
I think it's working in the way the tool tips are written

Trenia

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If u want damage on this use magic.
Don't use Stam.

Not sure that's it's broken it just seems the change is best for magic

@NewBlacksmurf

What?

The magicka morph - puncturing sweeps - isn't scaling with thaum. as it should be, meaning reduced damage. From the reports of others is seems that biting jabs is in the same situation - both the magicka and stamina morph appear to be bugged.

The damage is "X" per strike 4 times as magic damage even tho it says channeled it can be interrupted or stopped so because of this, my understanding is that in the new changes to combat, it's not a DOT.

On the reset I'm now using elemental expert for the magic damage.


A DOT per the update that would use Thaum would be Reflective Light, Dark Flare, Purifying Light, Radiant Oppresion as those talk about damage of a certain type of X amount of seconds.

The only DOT for Punchuring Sweep is movement speed reduction so No you're not going to get extra damage from that.


Make sense?
I think it's working in the way the tool tips are written

Zenimax came out and said they intend sweeps to be buffed by thaum. It currently is being buffed on PC, but not console. It is a bug.

kalishnikov89

Yeah pretty sure it's a bug or else there would be an explanation in the patch notes stating the changes so that we could properly allocate our cp to get back to our familiar dps numbers. @NewBlacksmurf

Averya_Teira

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If u want damage on this use magic.
Don't use Stam.

Not sure that's it's broken it just seems the change is best for magic

@NewBlacksmurf

What?

The magicka morph - puncturing sweeps - isn't scaling with thaum. as it should be, meaning reduced damage. From the reports of others is seems that biting jabs is in the same situation - both the magicka and stamina morph appear to be bugged.

The damage is "X" per strike 4 times as magic damage even tho it says channeled it can be interrupted or stopped so because of this, my understanding is that in the new changes to combat, it's not a DOT.

On the reset I'm now using elemental expert for the magic damage.


A DOT per the update that would use Thaum would be Reflective Light, Dark Flare, Purifying Light, Radiant Oppresion as those talk about damage of a certain type of X amount of seconds.

The only DOT for Punchuring Sweep is movement speed reduction so No you're not going to get extra damage from that.


Make sense?
I think it's working in the way the tool tips are written

Thaum increases dmg on PC and not on console.... THAT'S the bug...

Some people just don't want to understand... you are part of the bigger problem lol... "hey this isn't broken, it's how it's intended" *ZoS never fixes stuff* the end.

americansteel

i lost 400 tool tip damage on both morphs. i used to see 1500 now i see 1100

kalishnikov89

@americansteel literally the exact same for me. Now at 1100 on the tool tip

NewBlacksmurf

Averya_Teira wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If u want damage on this use magic.
Don't use Stam.

Not sure that's it's broken it just seems the change is best for magic

@NewBlacksmurf

What?

The magicka morph - puncturing sweeps - isn't scaling with thaum. as it should be, meaning reduced damage. From the reports of others is seems that biting jabs is in the same situation - both the magicka and stamina morph appear to be bugged.

The damage is "X" per strike 4 times as magic damage even tho it says channeled it can be interrupted or stopped so because of this, my understanding is that in the new changes to combat, it's not a DOT.

On the reset I'm now using elemental expert for the magic damage.


A DOT per the update that would use Thaum would be Reflective Light, Dark Flare, Purifying Light, Radiant Oppresion as those talk about damage of a certain type of X amount of seconds.

The only DOT for Punchuring Sweep is movement speed reduction so No you're not going to get extra damage from that.


Make sense?
I think it's working in the way the tool tips are written

Thaum increases dmg on PC and not on console.... THAT'S the bug...

Some people just don't want to understand... you are part of the bigger problem lol... "hey this isn't broken, it's how it's intended" *ZoS never fixes stuff* the end.

kalishnikov89 wrote: »

Yeah pretty sure it's a bug or else there would be an explanation in the patch notes stating the changes so that we could properly allocate our cp to get back to our familiar dps numbers. @NewBlacksmurf

FYI I play on PC too specifically on PTS and very rarely on PC live and I'm aware of the info provided however there was talk in PTS but there are no notes about what you all are expecting in live.

The skills per the way it's written is not a DOT anymore so it shouldn't benefit from that Champion passive.
Please link the dev or patch note cause from now back to May there is no reference on live to the expected change you all are discussing.

americansteel

kalishnikov89 wrote: »

@americansteel literally the exact same for me. Now at 1100 on the tool tip

seeing your reply assures my self i didnt mess something up. thanks! yea that 400dps lost on my stamplar hurts in pvp. i used to have 2550 stam recov now i see 1818.

Justice31st

disappointing.

Averya_Teira

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Averya_Teira wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Panth141 wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

If u want damage on this use magic.
Don't use Stam.

Not sure that's it's broken it just seems the change is best for magic

@NewBlacksmurf

What?

The magicka morph - puncturing sweeps - isn't scaling with thaum. as it should be, meaning reduced damage. From the reports of others is seems that biting jabs is in the same situation - both the magicka and stamina morph appear to be bugged.

The damage is "X" per strike 4 times as magic damage even tho it says channeled it can be interrupted or stopped so because of this, my understanding is that in the new changes to combat, it's not a DOT.

On the reset I'm now using elemental expert for the magic damage.


A DOT per the update that would use Thaum would be Reflective Light, Dark Flare, Purifying Light, Radiant Oppresion as those talk about damage of a certain type of X amount of seconds.

The only DOT for Punchuring Sweep is movement speed reduction so No you're not going to get extra damage from that.


Make sense?
I think it's working in the way the tool tips are written

Thaum increases dmg on PC and not on console.... THAT'S the bug...

Some people just don't want to understand... you are part of the bigger problem lol... "hey this isn't broken, it's how it's intended" *ZoS never fixes stuff* the end.

kalishnikov89 wrote: »

Yeah pretty sure it's a bug or else there would be an explanation in the patch notes stating the changes so that we could properly allocate our cp to get back to our familiar dps numbers. @NewBlacksmurf

FYI I play on PC too specifically on PTS and very rarely on PC live and I'm aware of the info provided however there was talk in PTS but there are no notes about what you all are expecting in live.

The skills per the way it's written is not a DOT anymore so it shouldn't benefit from that Champion passive.
Please link the dev or patch note cause from now back to May there is no reference on live to the expected change you all are discussing.

That is not the point..... thaumaturge affects sweeps on PC, but doesn't on consoles. You don't see the bug there ? You're being dense on purpose lol ?

TequilaFire

Smurf here is a reference.
Make sure to expand the quote.

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Any news on a fix to the thaumaturge bug?

Yeah this is starting to worry me now. ZoS has no issues pushing bugged code out into their live production environments.

What bug?

Sweeps on current PTS build isn't scales from thaumaturge CP passive, which is confirmed bug and fix confirmed to be released before DB hits live.

Is this fixed yet?

The bug with Thaumaturge is being fixed in the PTS incremental patch on Monday.

Eshelmen

My dark flare is hitting about 2k less now with all cp allocated... wtf

NewBlacksmurf

@TequilaFire and @Averya_Teira

I found this which is what I was talking about... But it was a PTS thing - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2917176/#Comment_2917176

....still reading to see if it was only a comment cause the discussion even to me at first was that these were DOTs but as we discussed it, the way the skill is written, there is no damage over time so maybe the skill needs to be changed for it to work...

Still reading to see when this comment hit PTS patch notes
***edit below***

So notice here it's not working on PTS later in May - https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/comment/2963523/#Comment_2963523

I'll keep checking but I really never saw notes on this. Just that discussion

Last comment as of May 18 (quote)

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

AOECAPS wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As a quick update, this is still being worked on and we haven't forgotten about it! It likely won't be fixed in next week's PTS incremental patch, but we do want to address it before Dark Brotherhood goes live.

Wanting to and doing so are entirely different things please fix this. Templars finally feel competitive across pvp pve etc

The fix is currently being tested, so we can't say with 100% certainty it will most definitely without a doubt be fixed. We want it fixed as much as you do, though, and are working on it.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

kungmoo wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

AOECAPS wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

As a quick update, this is still being worked on and we haven't forgotten about it! It likely won't be fixed in next week's PTS incremental patch, but we do want to address it before Dark Brotherhood goes live.

Wanting to and doing so are entirely different things please fix this. Templars finally feel competitive across pvp pve etc

The fix is currently being tested, so we can't say with 100% certainty it will most definitely without a doubt be fixed. We want it fixed as much as you do, though, and are working on it.

any update on if this is going to get fixed?

In terms of functionality, it will be fixed by time this update goes live. We're still working on a few outstanding issues surrounding the tooltip, but the ability itself will be good to go.

So in the PTS patch notes and live PC there is absolutely no mention of what @Wrobel and what Gina Bruno comment regarding this. Then there is this in the PC and Console patch notes which suggest you may have been getting more dmg than intended all along

"Abilities that heal based on their damage done (Strife, Puncturing Sweeps, etc.) will no longer “double dip” in the Critical Strike modifier.
The damage from these abilities can still Critically Strike, but the healing will no longer be able to roll for an additional Critical Strike chance."

The other change that matters and has an impact is this which is what my earlier comments were based on.

"Templar
Aedric Spear
Burning Light: This passive ability now deals Physical Damage or Magic Damage, based on whether your Weapon Damage or Spell Damage is higher respectively."


I'm not trying to be weird or anything, it's just that the changes to that Champion Skill seem to be intended cause the tooltip doesn't do dmg over X seconds. The other piece is weapon dmg or spell on which is higher as on PTS my issue was one was higher as I use dual wield.

Lastly there are other champion skills that do a better dmg increase so I was suggesting that due to what discussions occurred on PTS but where there are literally no changes about that topic.


***finished editing***

NewBlacksmurf

..

Eshelmen wrote: »

My dark flare is hitting about 2k less now with all cp allocated... wtf

There is no dmg in the tool tip for any duration. The duration impact is "major defile, reducing the effectiveness of healing them by 30% for 6 secs"

No dot

itzeffect

any news on if this is being fixed soon? my mains are suffering!!

danno8

elium85 wrote: »

@danno8 I think that's ZOS's latest gold sink: respec's to test what's broken in game.

You're not kidding.

Upon second thought, 3000 gold to test and then another 3000 gold to switch it to another area if it is not working correctly, since I usually have to throw the cp's in a completely unrelated star like Mighty or Precise Strikes to test properly.

If they would just patch the PTS along with current builds I wouldn't have to spend 6000 gold to test a CP star.

Eshelmen

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

..

Eshelmen wrote: »

My dark flare is hitting about 2k less now with all cp allocated... wtf

There is no dmg in the tool tip for any duration. The duration impact is "major defile, reducing the effectiveness of healing them by 30% for 6 secs"

No dot

Yes I know that. I'm adding to the thread about templars in general with this DLC.

With all CP (Plus the free 40CP given) allocated(442 total), the damage on my Dark Flare is hitting about 2k short of pre DB.

My spell damage is virtually unchanged(2966 flat), my max magicka is lower by about 500(39650 down to about 39150) and my recovery dropped a tad(1134 down to 1078).

Something doesn't seem right.

I used all original CP tabs from pre db except Thurm because of this thread. My total damage output seems to have dropped between 15-20%(give or take) through out all of my abilities.

Jabs did hit for around 1,500 for me.
Now they're at about 1,260.

There is no way that Dark Flare wasn't affected by this. They've just bumped Dark Flares damage last DLC by 12%. If this is the intended damage output, then I'm going to seriously consider to stop using my main then. My dark flare is underpowered now.
Jabs and Dark Flare being nerfed makes being a magplar dps practically not an option. And I can't even use my Dawnbreaker now too. haha

SublimeSparo

I have video proof:-
http://youtu.be/hyZoAF7RRR0

Justice31st

WTF @Zos

Panth141

@NewBlacksmurf

It's far too early to reply to all of that, so here it is in short:

- strikes and morphs should be buffed by thaum, ZoS have said this. They consider it a DoT. There is absolutely no debate on this - it has been explicitly stated.
- It wasn't working on PTS, ZoS said it was a bug
- ZoS fixed bug (see Jessica's reply at the start of this thread)
- Bug fixed on PC. Not on console. Bad.
- The 'double dip' quote you pulled out is absolutely nothing to do with damage. What it's saying is that the healing component of sweeps can no longer crit, only the damage component.

I.e. Previously you could crit your damage, then the healing it would give you could also crit - hence the 'double dip'. Now only the damage can crit.

Seriously, it's bugged. Zenimax says so. Zenimax need to fix it.

NewBlacksmurf

Panth141 wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf

It's far too early to reply to all of that, so here it is in short:

- strikes and morphs should be buffed by thaum, ZoS have said this. They consider it a DoT. There is absolutely no debate on this - it has been explicitly stated.
- It wasn't working on PTS, ZoS said it was a bug
- ZoS fixed bug (see Jessica's reply at the start of this thread)
- Bug fixed on PC. Not on console. Bad.
- The 'double dip' quote you pulled out is absolutely nothing to do with damage. What it's saying is that the healing component of sweeps can no longer crit, only the damage component.

I.e. Previously you could crit your damage, then the healing it would give you could also crit - hence the 'double dip'. Now only the damage can crit.

Seriously, it's bugged. Zenimax says so. Zenimax need to fix it.

@Panth141

Not sure how long you've been around but Wrobel's comment on things is ....

Literally those skills do not do damage over time. It's channeled cast which results in four individual strikes where each strike does dmg. Keep in mind you can be interrupted so the four strikes are not guaranteed so it's not a DOT

Wrobel works for the company and should know what he's talking about, however the game suggests otherwise. Seems fitting for him and others to comment on the matter but as is, the way things read, it's working correctly and also was this way when I was on PTS which is why I put points in other champ Passives.

sluice

My "new" fully geared Level 50, CP: 444 Magplar feels just as strong (or weak...) as my pre-patch VR6 templar with VR1 gear.

Even though my spell damage and my max magicka went up 400 and magicka 4k respectively.

I was really hopping to finally "melt" people with my Puncturing sweep. Honestly it hits like a wet noodle.

I really hope ZOS are looking into this.