Templars are not scaling correctly on console

llllADBllll

My Sweeps before patch crit for 6200 with a Tooltip of 1474 and basic damage was around 3,200 non crit.

Now my sweeps crit for 5,230 and base damage 2,800 tooltip 1239.

Exact same gear exact same CP

Burning Light also seems like it's been nerfed. Used to crit 8.5-9k now only 7.5-8k

Trenia

mb10 wrote: »

"consoles" lol there are 4 servers and two consoles. care to be more specific?

I was on ps4 EU yesterday and it was completely fine.


WHY do people continue to post bugs under the "general discussion" part of the forum?

All servers on console are confirmed not being buffed by thaum. This forum gets more traffic than the other.

NewBlacksmurf

CraftMaster wrote: »

My Sweeps before patch crit for 6200 with a Tooltip of 1474 and basic damage was around 3,200 non crit.

Now my sweeps crit for 5,230 and base damage 2,800 tooltip 1239.

Exact same gear exact same CP

Burning Light also seems like it's been nerfed. Used to crit 8.5-9k now only 7.5-8k

@CraftMaster
But that is correct. Crib changed from double dips (so this makes sense) and the weapon damage or spell damage is the basis of that passive "burning light" so even with the same gear the traits changed so it provides a different result.

I don't think that answers the topic tho

SublimeSparo

mb10 wrote: »

"consoles" lol there are 4 servers and two consoles. care to be more specific?

I was on ps4 EU yesterday and it was completely fine.


WHY do people continue to post bugs under the "general discussion" part of the forum?

Ps4 eu, and it's not fine, see my video on the previous page....

SwaminoNowlino

@NewBlacksmurf [snip] It clearly states the double dipping means that the heal can now also no longer crit. Meaning my jabs can't crit and the heal from them cannot also crit. That is clearly explained.

[edited for flaming]

llllADBllll

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

CraftMaster wrote: »

My Sweeps before patch crit for 6200 with a Tooltip of 1474 and basic damage was around 3,200 non crit.

Now my sweeps crit for 5,230 and base damage 2,800 tooltip 1239.

Exact same gear exact same CP

Burning Light also seems like it's been nerfed. Used to crit 8.5-9k now only 7.5-8k

@CraftMaster
But that is correct. Crib changed from double dips (so this makes sense) and the weapon damage or spell damage is the basis of that passive "burning light" so even with the same gear the traits changed so it provides a different result.

I don't think that answers the topic tho

When you say crit changed from double dips what do you mean by that I missed that in the patch notes.

I have more spell damage now still running Nirn Swords and understand I lost penetration but even switching my swords to sharpened hasn't allowed me to get anywhere close to 6k crits even on glass cannon vMSA build.

Maybe worth noting I run 2xSkoria Divines 5xTBS Maelstrom Resto 2xKags Nirn or Sharpened Swords.

I can't get my damage anywhere near what it was which has opened my eyes to now running Sharpened Maelstrom Fire Staff instead of DW so every cloud and all that since this is way more fun to play than sweep sweep sweep but still would be nice to know what changed to make such a difference having read it was broken on PTS but patched.

This is all based on vMSA Stage 1

Panth141

CraftMaster wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

CraftMaster wrote: »

My Sweeps before patch crit for 6200 with a Tooltip of 1474 and basic damage was around 3,200 non crit.

Now my sweeps crit for 5,230 and base damage 2,800 tooltip 1239.

Exact same gear exact same CP

Burning Light also seems like it's been nerfed. Used to crit 8.5-9k now only 7.5-8k

@CraftMaster
But that is correct. Crib changed from double dips (so this makes sense) and the weapon damage or spell damage is the basis of that passive "burning light" so even with the same gear the traits changed so it provides a different result.

I don't think that answers the topic tho

When you say crit changed from double dips what do you mean by that I missed that in the patch notes.

I have more spell damage now still running Nirn Swords and understand I lost penetration but even switching my swords to sharpened hasn't allowed me to get anywhere close to 6k crits even on glass cannon vMSA build.

Maybe worth noting I run 2xSkoria Divines 5xTBS Maelstrom Resto 2xKags Nirn or Sharpened Swords.

I can't get my damage anywhere near what it was which has opened my eyes to now running Sharpened Maelstrom Fire Staff instead of DW so every cloud and all that since this is way more fun to play than sweep sweep sweep but still would be nice to know what changed to make such a difference having read it was broken on PTS but patched.

The 'double dip' referred to sweeps previously allowing both the damage and the health to crit. This change should have no effect on damage, as I stated to @NewBlacksmurf in post #59 on this thread.

EDIT:

Here is the exact patch note:

Abilities that heal based on their damage done (Strife, Puncturing Sweeps, etc.) will no longer “double dip” in the Critical Strike modifier.
The damage from these abilities can still Critically Strike, but the healing will no longer be able to roll for an additional Critical Strike chance.

itzeffect

mb10 wrote: »

"consoles" lol there are 4 servers and two consoles. care to be more specific?

I was on ps4 EU yesterday and it was completely fine.


WHY do people continue to post bugs under the "general discussion" part of the forum?

to get more attention, it seems the most common forum i guess

kalishnikov89

No it really isn't fine. It took 5 minutes of questing in the new delves to realize something was wrong with dps. First I checked with my fellow templars. All of them said something wasn't the same. So I did a bit of googling and found this post. The ppl saying that nothing is wrong are the ones who never had any points into thaumaturge in the first place. So you guys are not seeing any difference. It's 100% broken no doubt about it. @mb10

NewBlacksmurf

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf It clearly states the double dipping means that the heal can now also no longer crit. Meaning my jabs can't crit and the heal from them cannot also crit. That is clearly explained.

@SwaminoNowlino

There is waaay more that changed that impacts damage for this skill than just that comments *edit*.

I think everyone who is concerned just needs to wait for a reply from ZOS on future state of this inquiry or test more...

@Panth141

I just made a new char to test this at level 3 at 0, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% and 25% with no points in mag, Stam or health and the starter armor and weapon. Not the one that does other dmg but the cast off weapon.

My findings are (per SCT)
92 dmg with nothing
94 dmg at 5%
96 dmg at 10%
102 dmg at 15%
104 dmg at 20%
106 dmg at 25%

Note: my weapon dmg and spell dmg are the same.
I think something happens around 5%-10% tho because it seems it didn't change the dmg and maybe as the weapon skill went up the dmg went up so perhaps there was not enough dmg to notice a difference

FYI:
Weapon - 2 hand
Race - Orc
Gear - starter medium armor from the urn
No other gear or modifiers


If others have a free slot it's worth testing.

[minor edit for quote]

xerasia

So glad to see I'm not crazy. I went from suck to blow and couldn't figure out if I was imagining it, having a bad night, or what. I hope they get it worked out soon.

SwaminoNowlino

.. I just can't. If you can't read what people saying then why are you arguing with it.

People are saying their is a damage difference. This was noted on the PTS and ZOS said they were fixing. They created a note that said it was fixed but the tool tip damage displays incorrectly. I do not know if this is or is not the case.

Then you decide to quote the part about not allowing the double dip for crits. Which is clearly explained in the notes, stating that this applies to the heal. If your damage hits for a crit, the heal based on it now no longer rerolls for an additional and even bigger crit. This has nothing to do with CP or damage.


Changes may have been made that impact damage in other ways, which is why they are looking into it. Just trying to put the correct information out there instead of having it covered by obscurity/lack of understanding.

itzeffect

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf It clearly states the double dipping means that the heal can now also no longer crit. Meaning my jabs can't crit and the heal from them cannot also crit. That is clearly explained.

@SwaminoNowlino

There is waaay more that changed that impacts damage for this skill than just that comments *edit*.

I think everyone who is concerned just needs to wait for a reply from ZOS on future state of this inquiry or test more...

@Panth141

I just made a new char to test this at level 3 at 0, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% and 25% with no points in mag, Stam or health and the starter armor and weapon. Not the one that does other dmg but the cast off weapon.

My findings are (per SCT)
92 dmg with nothing
94 dmg at 5%
96 dmg at 10%
102 dmg at 15%
104 dmg at 20%
106 dmg at 25%

Note: my weapon dmg and spell dmg are the same.
I think something happens around 5%-10% tho because it seems it didn't change the dmg and maybe as the weapon skill went up the dmg went up so perhaps there was not enough dmg to notice a difference

FYI:
Weapon - 2 hand
Race - Orc
Gear - starter medium armor from the urn
No other gear or modifiers


If others have a free slot it's worth testing.

the only reason the damage would be going up is because you are putting points into a blue champion tree which increases max magika, this in turn increases the damage of magika abilities, it is not thaumaturge that is buffing it, you could put the points into blessed and see the same numbers

[minor edit for quote]

templesus

I can also confirm that puncturing sweeps is not scaling with thaumaturge AND burning light is not scaling correctly off magicka/spell damage even though it is higher. Zenimax broke templars.

NewBlacksmurf

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

.. I just can't. If you can't read what people saying then why are you arguing with it.

People are saying their is a damage difference. This was noted on the PTS and ZOS said they were fixing. They created a note that said it was fixed but the tool tip damage displays incorrectly. I do not know if this is or is not the case.

Then you decide to quote the part about not allowing the double dip for crits. Which is clearly explained in the notes, stating that this applies to the heal. If your damage hits for a crit, the heal based on it now no longer rerolls for an additional and even bigger crit. This has nothing to do with CP or damage.


Changes may have been made that impact damage in other ways, which is why they are looking into it. Just trying to put the correct information out there instead of having it covered by obscurity/lack of understanding.

@SwaminoNowlino
I understand what ppl are saying and there SHOULD BE a damage difference because of all the changes.
Even without Thaum the I modified dmg is lower.

That's important for everyone to understand first and foremost. That is intended.
Now the crit part...Ill quote another member from the Templar Feedback article which started this

"and *just* made it so that Sweeps can't get a second crit proc for healing in addition to damage (which could previously double dip the healing done),"

And the next comment from Nifty
"ZOSGinaBruno
I need asap clarification on thins
Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this Champion ability was increasing the damage of various non-damage over time effects, such as Daedric Curse or Magicka Detonation.

Does this affect puncturing sweep and it's morphs?"

The rest of that is on a previous page in this thread....and later confirmed by another forum user that Weobels comment did make the change so it would seem that it did make it to consoles based on my very basic test which isn't me saying it's right but it's me saying I saw a difference.

---

You have to look at the set changes
The enchants that had reductions
The traits on your weapons
Weapon Passives that may have changed

Make sure when you weapon swap that you spell dmg doesn't go higher than weapon dmg or vice versa with and without food

It's a lot of changes and particularly those who are using the exact same CP allotment as CP was changed a lot.

Look at the VR to CP conversion items and how the new VR level stat change impacts you now compared to CP assigned points

Sargentwilko51

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf you are incredibly bad at reading. It clearly states the double dipping means that the heal can now also no longer crit. Meaning my jabs can't crit and the heal from them cannot also crit. That is clearly explained.

@SwaminoNowlino

There is waaay more that changed that impacts damage for this skill than just that comments *edit*.

I think everyone who is concerned just needs to wait for a reply from ZOS on future state of this inquiry or test more...

@Panth141

I just made a new char to test this at level 3 at 0, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% and 25% with no points in mag, Stam or health and the starter armor and weapon. Not the one that does other dmg but the cast off weapon.

My findings are (per SCT)
92 dmg with nothing
94 dmg at 5%
96 dmg at 10%
102 dmg at 15%
104 dmg at 20%
106 dmg at 25%

Note: my weapon dmg and spell dmg are the same.
I think something happens around 5%-10% tho because it seems it didn't change the dmg and maybe as the weapon skill went up the dmg went up so perhaps there was not enough dmg to notice a difference

FYI:
Weapon - 2 hand
Race - Orc
Gear - starter medium armor from the urn
No other gear or modifiers


If others have a free slot it's worth testing.

@NewBlacksmurf

While your effort to test a known bug is appreciated by everyone, the method you are using is not correct (and I think you know it). Either you simply cannot understand what was previously stated by @Wrobel or by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom in the patch notes, or you are simply intending on derailing this conversation.

Either way, just stop, please. You are starting to embarrass yourself with this.

Also, still waiting on confirmation from ZOS that they have replicated said issue. We know it will be corrected (no eta), just want to ensure they have everything they need from us as a community.

kalishnikov89

itzeffect wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf you are incredibly bad at reading. It clearly states the double dipping means that the heal can now also no longer crit. Meaning my jabs can't crit and the heal from them cannot also crit. That is clearly explained.

@SwaminoNowlino

There is waaay more that changed that impacts damage for this skill than just that comments *edit*.

I think everyone who is concerned just needs to wait for a reply from ZOS on future state of this inquiry or test more...

@Panth141

I just made a new char to test this at level 3 at 0, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% and 25% with no points in mag, Stam or health and the starter armor and weapon. Not the one that does other dmg but the cast off weapon.

My findings are (per SCT)
92 dmg with nothing
94 dmg at 5%
96 dmg at 10%
102 dmg at 15%
104 dmg at 20%
106 dmg at 25%

Note: my weapon dmg and spell dmg are the same.
I think something happens around 5%-10% tho because it seems it didn't change the dmg and maybe as the weapon skill went up the dmg went up so perhaps there was not enough dmg to notice a difference

FYI:
Weapon - 2 hand
Race - Orc
Gear - starter medium armor from the urn
No other gear or modifiers


If others have a free slot it's worth testing.

the only reason the damage would be going up is because you are putting points into a blue champion tree which increases max magika, this in turn increases the damage of magika abilities, it is not thaumaturge that is buffing it, you could put the points into blessed and see the same numbers

Exactly.

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf you are incredibly bad at reading. It clearly states the double dipping means that the heal can now also no longer crit. Meaning my jabs can't crit and the heal from them cannot also crit. That is clearly explained.

@SwaminoNowlino

There is waaay more that changed that impacts damage for this skill than just that comments *edit*.

I think everyone who is concerned just needs to wait for a reply from ZOS on future state of this inquiry or test more...

@Panth141

I just made a new char to test this at level 3 at 0, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% and 25% with no points in mag, Stam or health and the starter armor and weapon. Not the one that does other dmg but the cast off weapon.

My findings are (per SCT)
92 dmg with nothing
94 dmg at 5%
96 dmg at 10%
102 dmg at 15%
104 dmg at 20%
106 dmg at 25%

Note: my weapon dmg and spell dmg are the same.
I think something happens around 5%-10% tho because it seems it didn't change the dmg and maybe as the weapon skill went up the dmg went up so perhaps there was not enough dmg to notice a difference

FYI:
Weapon - 2 hand
Race - Orc
Gear - starter medium armor from the urn
No other gear or modifiers


If others have a free slot it's worth testing.

@NewBlacksmurf

Please, just, stop.

While your effort to test a known bug is appreciated by everyone, the method you are using is not correct (and I think you know it). This is getting to the point of trolling the thread. Either you simply cannot understand what was previously stated by @Wrobel or by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom in the patch notes, or you are simply intending on derailing this conversation.

Either way, just stop, please. You are starting to embarrass yourself with this.

Also, still waiting on confirmation from ZOS that they have replicated said issue. We know it will be corrected (no eta), just want to ensure they have everything they need from us as a community.

Yeah I've been reading these posts all day and @NewBlacksmurf I can't even tell if you are just being difficult and failing to see everything that several posters point out, or just being argumentative for the sake of an opposing view. Every sign points to - Bug. But yet you are still trying to prove everyone wrong and it's frankly quite exhausting. You are not cracking any secrets. Please, just wait for the patch fix because it's 100% not working as intended.

Neoauspex

Hotfix (Templar Style):

Puncturing Sweeps has been replaced with a new skill: Stand Still and Channel This Heal Until You Die. This new and excited skill heals a completely arbitrary target anywhere on your current map for 1 miiiiiiillion health over 15 minutes.

NewBlacksmurf

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

@SwaminoNowlino

There is waaay more that changed that impacts damage for this skill than just that comments *edit*.

I think everyone who is concerned just needs to wait for a reply from ZOS on future state of this inquiry or test more...

@Panth141

I just made a new char to test this at level 3 at 0, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% and 25% with no points in mag, Stam or health and the starter armor and weapon. Not the one that does other dmg but the cast off weapon.

My findings are (per SCT)
92 dmg with nothing
94 dmg at 5%
96 dmg at 10%
102 dmg at 15%
104 dmg at 20%
106 dmg at 25%

Note: my weapon dmg and spell dmg are the same.
I think something happens around 5%-10% tho because it seems it didn't change the dmg and maybe as the weapon skill went up the dmg went up so perhaps there was not enough dmg to notice a difference

FYI:
Weapon - 2 hand
Race - Orc
Gear - starter medium armor from the urn
No other gear or modifiers


If others have a free slot it's worth testing.

@NewBlacksmurf

Please, just, stop.

While your effort to test a known bug is appreciated by everyone, the method you are using is not correct (and I think you know it). Either you simply cannot understand what was previously stated by @Wrobel or by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom in the patch notes, or you are simply intending on derailing this conversation.

Either way, just stop, please. You are starting to embarrass yourself with this.

Also, still waiting on confirmation from ZOS that they have replicated said issue. We know it will be corrected (no eta), just want to ensure they have everything they need from us as a community.

@Talvorian
Please don't suggest I'm ruining this thread cause I'm on of the few who is actually working to point out things whether these are intended or not.

I ask that you be more constructive in your comments please.

What tests and results have you found
Please share

Thanks

[minor edit for quote]

Sargentwilko51

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf you are incredibly bad at reading. It clearly states the double dipping means that the heal can now also no longer crit. Meaning my jabs can't crit and the heal from them cannot also crit. That is clearly explained.

@SwaminoNowlino

There is waaay more that changed that impacts damage for this skill than just that comments *edit*.

I think everyone who is concerned just needs to wait for a reply from ZOS on future state of this inquiry or test more...

@Panth141

I just made a new char to test this at level 3 at 0, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% and 25% with no points in mag, Stam or health and the starter armor and weapon. Not the one that does other dmg but the cast off weapon.

My findings are (per SCT)
92 dmg with nothing
94 dmg at 5%
96 dmg at 10%
102 dmg at 15%
104 dmg at 20%
106 dmg at 25%

Note: my weapon dmg and spell dmg are the same.
I think something happens around 5%-10% tho because it seems it didn't change the dmg and maybe as the weapon skill went up the dmg went up so perhaps there was not enough dmg to notice a difference

FYI:
Weapon - 2 hand
Race - Orc
Gear - starter medium armor from the urn
No other gear or modifiers


If others have a free slot it's worth testing.

@NewBlacksmurf

Please, just, stop.

While your effort to test a known bug is appreciated by everyone, the method you are using is not correct (and I think you know it). This is getting to the point of trolling the thread. Either you simply cannot understand what was previously stated by @Wrobel or by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom in the patch notes, or you are simply intending on derailing this conversation.

Either way, just stop, please. You are starting to embarrass yourself with this.

Also, still waiting on confirmation from ZOS that they have replicated said issue. We know it will be corrected (no eta), just want to ensure they have everything they need from us as a community.

@Talvorian
Please don't suggest I'm trolling this thread cause I'm on of the few who is actually working to point out things whether these are intended or not.

I ask that you be more constructive in your comments please.

What tests and results have you found
Please share

Thanks

@NewBlacksmurf

After approximately 2 hours of testing last night, Over both stam classes and magic classes, thaumaturge is clearly not applying to either the magic or stamina morph of sweeps/jabs.

Your method is adding champion points into the Ritual (a blue tree which increases max magic). That is why your damage is increasing. Remove all the champion points from thaumaturge and add them to blessed. You will see the exact same results.

Finally, I am not the first person to state this nor will I probably be the last, however, asking me to be constructive when you yourself clearly should not be commenting on this thread or testing anything (as demonstrated by your inability to control your environment).

It is not my job to hold your hand or to lead you to the promised land of understanding, I tried that earlier when I referenced the information directly from the patch notes. If you cannot understand the situation or read the information presented to you, I nor anyone else can help you.

Have a wonderful day. You are being borderline obstinate at this point.

NewBlacksmurf

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf you are incredibly bad at reading. It clearly states the double dipping means that the heal can now also no longer crit. Meaning my jabs can't crit and the heal from them cannot also crit. That is clearly explained.

@SwaminoNowlino

There is waaay more that changed that impacts damage for this skill than just that comments *edit*.

I think everyone who is concerned just needs to wait for a reply from ZOS on future state of this inquiry or test more...

@Panth141

I just made a new char to test this at level 3 at 0, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% and 25% with no points in mag, Stam or health and the starter armor and weapon. Not the one that does other dmg but the cast off weapon.

My findings are (per SCT)
92 dmg with nothing
94 dmg at 5%
96 dmg at 10%
102 dmg at 15%
104 dmg at 20%
106 dmg at 25%

Note: my weapon dmg and spell dmg are the same.
I think something happens around 5%-10% tho because it seems it didn't change the dmg and maybe as the weapon skill went up the dmg went up so perhaps there was not enough dmg to notice a difference

FYI:
Weapon - 2 hand
Race - Orc
Gear - starter medium armor from the urn
No other gear or modifiers


If others have a free slot it's worth testing.

@NewBlacksmurf

Please, just, stop.

While your effort to test a known bug is appreciated by everyone, the method you are using is not correct (and I think you know it). This is getting to the point of trolling the thread. Either you simply cannot understand what was previously stated by @Wrobel or by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom in the patch notes, or you are simply intending on derailing this conversation.

Either way, just stop, please. You are starting to embarrass yourself with this.

Also, still waiting on confirmation from ZOS that they have replicated said issue. We know it will be corrected (no eta), just want to ensure they have everything they need from us as a community.

@Talvorian
Please don't suggest I'm trolling this thread cause I'm on of the few who is actually working to point out things whether these are intended or not.

I ask that you be more constructive in your comments please.

What tests and results have you found
Please share

Thanks

@NewBlacksmurf

After approximately 2 hours of testing last night, Over both stam classes and magic classes, thaumaturge is clearly not applying to either the magic or stamina morph of sweeps/jabs.

Your method is adding champion points into the Ritual (a blue tree which increases max magic). That is why your damage is increasing. Remove all the champion points from thaumaturge and add them to blessed. You will see the exact same results.

Finally, I am not the first person to state this nor will I probably be the last, however, asking me to be constructive when you yourself clearly should not be commenting on this thread or testing anything (as demonstrated by your inability to control your environment).

It is not my job to hold your hand or to lead you to the promised land of understanding, I tried that earlier when I referenced the information directly from the patch notes. If you cannot understand the situation or read the information presented to you, I nor anyone else can help you.

Have a wonderful day and please, stop trolling this thread with misinformation. You are being borderline obstinate at this point.

@Talvorian

What exactly did you test for two hours and what were those exact results?

I agree my method isn't the best way but it gives a baseline to compare other tests because I didn't do a test and say that look it's working. I did a test and said here are the results and encouraged others to test. Not the way I did but to test it

No one is suggesting it's your job or anyone else's job whose participating in this thread to do tests but it does no good for anyone to complain without detail which is what was asked for by the mods.

This isn't the only thread questioning if something is intended or missing as far as CP and the SMF of certain skills
I'll ask one last time to please stop suggesting that I'm trolling the thread and also ask that you do comment with your test findings.

Sargentwilko51

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf you are incredibly bad at reading. It clearly states the double dipping means that the heal can now also no longer crit. Meaning my jabs can't crit and the heal from them cannot also crit. That is clearly explained.

@SwaminoNowlino

There is waaay more that changed that impacts damage for this skill than just that comments *edit*.

I think everyone who is concerned just needs to wait for a reply from ZOS on future state of this inquiry or test more...

@Panth141

I just made a new char to test this at level 3 at 0, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% and 25% with no points in mag, Stam or health and the starter armor and weapon. Not the one that does other dmg but the cast off weapon.

My findings are (per SCT)
92 dmg with nothing
94 dmg at 5%
96 dmg at 10%
102 dmg at 15%
104 dmg at 20%
106 dmg at 25%

Note: my weapon dmg and spell dmg are the same.
I think something happens around 5%-10% tho because it seems it didn't change the dmg and maybe as the weapon skill went up the dmg went up so perhaps there was not enough dmg to notice a difference

FYI:
Weapon - 2 hand
Race - Orc
Gear - starter medium armor from the urn
No other gear or modifiers


If others have a free slot it's worth testing.

@NewBlacksmurf

Please, just, stop.

While your effort to test a known bug is appreciated by everyone, the method you are using is not correct (and I think you know it). This is getting to the point of trolling the thread. Either you simply cannot understand what was previously stated by @Wrobel or by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom in the patch notes, or you are simply intending on derailing this conversation.

Either way, just stop, please. You are starting to embarrass yourself with this.

Also, still waiting on confirmation from ZOS that they have replicated said issue. We know it will be corrected (no eta), just want to ensure they have everything they need from us as a community.

@Talvorian
Please don't suggest I'm trolling this thread cause I'm on of the few who is actually working to point out things whether these are intended or not.

I ask that you be more constructive in your comments please.

What tests and results have you found
Please share

Thanks

@NewBlacksmurf

After approximately 2 hours of testing last night, Over both stam classes and magic classes, thaumaturge is clearly not applying to either the magic or stamina morph of sweeps/jabs.

Your method is adding champion points into the Ritual (a blue tree which increases max magic). That is why your damage is increasing. Remove all the champion points from thaumaturge and add them to blessed. You will see the exact same results.

Finally, I am not the first person to state this nor will I probably be the last, however, asking me to be constructive when you yourself clearly should not be commenting on this thread or testing anything (as demonstrated by your inability to control your environment).

It is not my job to hold your hand or to lead you to the promised land of understanding, I tried that earlier when I referenced the information directly from the patch notes. If you cannot understand the situation or read the information presented to you, I nor anyone else can help you.

Have a wonderful day and please, stop trolling this thread with misinformation. You are being borderline obstinate at this point.

@Talvorian

What exactly did you test for two hours and what were those exact results?

I agree my method isn't the best way but it gives a baseline to compare other tests because I didn't do a test and say that look it's working. I did a test and said here are the results and encouraged others to test. Not the way I did but to test it

No one is suggesting it's your job or anyone else's job whose participating in this thread to do tests but it does no good for anyone to complain without detail which is what was asked for by the mods.

This isn't the only thread questioning if something is intended or missing as far as CP and the SMF of certain skills
I'll ask one last time to please stop suggesting that I'm trolling the thread and also ask that you do comment with your test findings.

@NewBlacksmurf

I will post ALL of my test results when I get home if that will make you happy. I do encourage you to perform the exact same test placing the champion points into blessed as opposed to thaumaturge and you will see the same damage increase.

And if you want me to stop indicating that you are trolling, that's fine. Read the links I provided from @ZOS_JessicaFolsom in the patch notes and the link from @Wrobel regarding that sweeps/jabs should in fact be increased by thaumaturge. That right there answers the "should it be or not?" question. The test results that you can clearly apply yourself (if done objectively and controlling your constants) will reveal that in fact, thaumaturge is not being raised as intended by ZOS.

If that is still not enough for you, I recommend that you ask someone else for their "test results". Mine will be made available in a couple hours.

To be clear, your way does not provide a baseline as you are mixing 2 different variables. Each champion point spent in a tree raises the max amount of that stat pool = more blue champ points spent = higher max magic = higher damage on magic abilities. You are only confirming that adding blue champion points raises the damage of magic abilities.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Can we please get a confirmation of this issue so that we can put this thread to rest?

Referenced links for convenience:

Patch notes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/267224/pts-patch-notes-v2-4-4/p1

Wrobel's Comment: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262103/templar-thaumaturge-sweep-bug-fix-coming-for-live/p3

NewBlacksmurf

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf you are incredibly bad at reading. It clearly states the double dipping means that the heal can now also no longer crit. Meaning my jabs can't crit and the heal from them cannot also crit. That is clearly explained.

@SwaminoNowlino

There is waaay more that changed that impacts damage for this skill than just that comments *edit*.

I think everyone who is concerned just needs to wait for a reply from ZOS on future state of this inquiry or test more...

@Panth141

I just made a new char to test this at level 3 at 0, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% and 25% with no points in mag, Stam or health and the starter armor and weapon. Not the one that does other dmg but the cast off weapon.

My findings are (per SCT)
92 dmg with nothing
94 dmg at 5%
96 dmg at 10%
102 dmg at 15%
104 dmg at 20%
106 dmg at 25%

Note: my weapon dmg and spell dmg are the same.
I think something happens around 5%-10% tho because it seems it didn't change the dmg and maybe as the weapon skill went up the dmg went up so perhaps there was not enough dmg to notice a difference

FYI:
Weapon - 2 hand
Race - Orc
Gear - starter medium armor from the urn
No other gear or modifiers


If others have a free slot it's worth testing.

@NewBlacksmurf

Please, just, stop.

While your effort to test a known bug is appreciated by everyone, the method you are using is not correct (and I think you know it). This is getting to the point of trolling the thread. Either you simply cannot understand what was previously stated by @Wrobel or by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom in the patch notes, or you are simply intending on derailing this conversation.

Either way, just stop, please. You are starting to embarrass yourself with this.

Also, still waiting on confirmation from ZOS that they have replicated said issue. We know it will be corrected (no eta), just want to ensure they have everything they need from us as a community.

@Talvorian
Please don't suggest I'm trolling this thread cause I'm on of the few who is actually working to point out things whether these are intended or not.

I ask that you be more constructive in your comments please.

What tests and results have you found
Please share

Thanks

@NewBlacksmurf

After approximately 2 hours of testing last night, Over both stam classes and magic classes, thaumaturge is clearly not applying to either the magic or stamina morph of sweeps/jabs.

Your method is adding champion points into the Ritual (a blue tree which increases max magic). That is why your damage is increasing. Remove all the champion points from thaumaturge and add them to blessed. You will see the exact same results.

Finally, I am not the first person to state this nor will I probably be the last, however, asking me to be constructive when you yourself clearly should not be commenting on this thread or testing anything (as demonstrated by your inability to control your environment).

It is not my job to hold your hand or to lead you to the promised land of understanding, I tried that earlier when I referenced the information directly from the patch notes. If you cannot understand the situation or read the information presented to you, I nor anyone else can help you.

Have a wonderful day and please, stop trolling this thread with misinformation. You are being borderline obstinate at this point.

@Talvorian

What exactly did you test for two hours and what were those exact results?

I agree my method isn't the best way but it gives a baseline to compare other tests because I didn't do a test and say that look it's working. I did a test and said here are the results and encouraged others to test. Not the way I did but to test it

No one is suggesting it's your job or anyone else's job whose participating in this thread to do tests but it does no good for anyone to complain without detail which is what was asked for by the mods.

This isn't the only thread questioning if something is intended or missing as far as CP and the SMF of certain skills
I'll ask one last time to please stop suggesting that I'm trolling the thread and also ask that you do comment with your test findings.

@NewBlacksmurf

I will post ALL of my test results when I get home if that will make you happy. I do encourage you to perform the exact same test placing the champion points into blessed as opposed to thaumaturge and you will see the same damage increase.

And if you want me to stop indicating that you are trolling, that's fine. Read the links I provided from @ZOS_JessicaFolsom in the patch notes and the link from @Wrobel regarding that sweeps/jabs should in fact be increased by thaumaturge. That right there answers the "should it be or not?" question. The test results that you can clearly apply yourself (if done objectively and controlling your constants) will reveal that in fact, thaumaturge is not being raised as intended by ZOS.

If that is still not enough for you, I recommend that you ask someone else for their "test results". Mine will be made available in a couple hours.

To be clear, your way does not provide a baseline as you are mixing 2 different variables. Each champion point spent in a tree raises the max amount of that stat pool = more blue champ points spent = higher max magic = higher damage on magic abilities. You are only confirming that adding blue champion points raises the damage of magic abilities.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Can we please get a confirmation of this issue so that we can put this thread to rest?

Referenced links for convenience:

Patch notes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/267224/pts-patch-notes-v2-4-4/p1

Wrobel's Comment: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262103/templar-thaumaturge-sweep-bug-fix-coming-for-live/p3

@Talvorian
I did the blessed testing another new character....same results as you shared which is consistent BUT also on the first page tested on console as I did on PTS and suggested that there is a better choice than Thaum

That was something I found when reading the skill and looking how another chat CPs were setup and noticed that 25% is 25% so I went with the elemental choice and it made a difference to all my other spells But that skill still had lower dmg than expected so IMO it might not be just that Thaum is broken.

Perhaps jabs is the problem cause regardless of the build and CPs is low on dmg

The other things you're asking me to read....I literally quoted those in this thread prior to you joining the conversation and participated in the PTS thread. Then another user added the last PTS patch notes cause I missed those but we are all aware of that. The point is that the focus could be on the wrong thing when in fact something else isn't working and you all seem to think it's one thing while I'm saying no....I think it's something else.

There are topics on why the spell or weapon dmg isn't doing X with that same skill.
I think is testing will identify the problem or multiple problems is all

Either way....the tool tip needs to be changed if Wrobel thinks it's a DOT to say X dmg from grou strikes over X seconds. That will help a lot too

Nifty2g

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Talvorian wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

SwaminoNowlino wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf you are incredibly bad at reading. It clearly states the double dipping means that the heal can now also no longer crit. Meaning my jabs can't crit and the heal from them cannot also crit. That is clearly explained.

@SwaminoNowlino

There is waaay more that changed that impacts damage for this skill than just that comments *edit*.

I think everyone who is concerned just needs to wait for a reply from ZOS on future state of this inquiry or test more...

@Panth141

I just made a new char to test this at level 3 at 0, 5%, 10%, 15%, 20% and 25% with no points in mag, Stam or health and the starter armor and weapon. Not the one that does other dmg but the cast off weapon.

My findings are (per SCT)
92 dmg with nothing
94 dmg at 5%
96 dmg at 10%
102 dmg at 15%
104 dmg at 20%
106 dmg at 25%

Note: my weapon dmg and spell dmg are the same.
I think something happens around 5%-10% tho because it seems it didn't change the dmg and maybe as the weapon skill went up the dmg went up so perhaps there was not enough dmg to notice a difference

FYI:
Weapon - 2 hand
Race - Orc
Gear - starter medium armor from the urn
No other gear or modifiers


If others have a free slot it's worth testing.

@NewBlacksmurf

Please, just, stop.

While your effort to test a known bug is appreciated by everyone, the method you are using is not correct (and I think you know it). This is getting to the point of trolling the thread. Either you simply cannot understand what was previously stated by @Wrobel or by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom in the patch notes, or you are simply intending on derailing this conversation.

Either way, just stop, please. You are starting to embarrass yourself with this.

Also, still waiting on confirmation from ZOS that they have replicated said issue. We know it will be corrected (no eta), just want to ensure they have everything they need from us as a community.

@Talvorian
Please don't suggest I'm trolling this thread cause I'm on of the few who is actually working to point out things whether these are intended or not.

I ask that you be more constructive in your comments please.

What tests and results have you found
Please share

Thanks

@NewBlacksmurf

After approximately 2 hours of testing last night, Over both stam classes and magic classes, thaumaturge is clearly not applying to either the magic or stamina morph of sweeps/jabs.

Your method is adding champion points into the Ritual (a blue tree which increases max magic). That is why your damage is increasing. Remove all the champion points from thaumaturge and add them to blessed. You will see the exact same results.

Finally, I am not the first person to state this nor will I probably be the last, however, asking me to be constructive when you yourself clearly should not be commenting on this thread or testing anything (as demonstrated by your inability to control your environment).

It is not my job to hold your hand or to lead you to the promised land of understanding, I tried that earlier when I referenced the information directly from the patch notes. If you cannot understand the situation or read the information presented to you, I nor anyone else can help you.

Have a wonderful day and please, stop trolling this thread with misinformation. You are being borderline obstinate at this point.

@Talvorian

What exactly did you test for two hours and what were those exact results?

I agree my method isn't the best way but it gives a baseline to compare other tests because I didn't do a test and say that look it's working. I did a test and said here are the results and encouraged others to test. Not the way I did but to test it

No one is suggesting it's your job or anyone else's job whose participating in this thread to do tests but it does no good for anyone to complain without detail which is what was asked for by the mods.

This isn't the only thread questioning if something is intended or missing as far as CP and the SMF of certain skills
I'll ask one last time to please stop suggesting that I'm trolling the thread and also ask that you do comment with your test findings.

@NewBlacksmurf

I will post ALL of my test results when I get home if that will make you happy. I do encourage you to perform the exact same test placing the champion points into blessed as opposed to thaumaturge and you will see the same damage increase.

And if you want me to stop indicating that you are trolling, that's fine. Read the links I provided from @ZOS_JessicaFolsom in the patch notes and the link from @Wrobel regarding that sweeps/jabs should in fact be increased by thaumaturge. That right there answers the "should it be or not?" question. The test results that you can clearly apply yourself (if done objectively and controlling your constants) will reveal that in fact, thaumaturge is not being raised as intended by ZOS.

If that is still not enough for you, I recommend that you ask someone else for their "test results". Mine will be made available in a couple hours.

To be clear, your way does not provide a baseline as you are mixing 2 different variables. Each champion point spent in a tree raises the max amount of that stat pool = more blue champ points spent = higher max magic = higher damage on magic abilities. You are only confirming that adding blue champion points raises the damage of magic abilities.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Can we please get a confirmation of this issue so that we can put this thread to rest?

Referenced links for convenience:

Patch notes: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/267224/pts-patch-notes-v2-4-4/p1

Wrobel's Comment: https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/262103/templar-thaumaturge-sweep-bug-fix-coming-for-live/p3

@Talvorian
I did the blessed testing another new character....same results as you shared which is consistent BUT also on the first page tested on console as I did on PTS and suggested that there is a better choice than Thaum

That was something I found when reading the skill and looking how another chat CPs were setup and noticed that 25% is 25% so I went with the elemental choice and it made a difference to all my other spells But that skill still had lower dmg than expected so IMO it might not be just that Thaum is broken.

Perhaps jabs is the problem cause regardless of the build and CPs is low on dmg

The other things you're asking me to read....I literally quoted those in this thread prior to you joining the conversation and participated in the PTS thread. Then another user added the last PTS patch notes cause I missed those but we are all aware of that. The point is that the focus could be on the wrong thing when in fact something else isn't working and you all seem to think it's one thing while I'm saying no....I think it's something else.

There are topics on why the spell or weapon dmg isn't doing X with that same skill.
I think is testing will identify the problem or multiple problems is all

Either way....the tool tip needs to be changed if Wrobel thinks it's a DOT to say X dmg from grou strikes over X seconds. That will help a lot too

The tooltip is fine... says it has a channel time, and that it deals damage four times over the span of 1.1 second. I can't see how that wouldn't come across as not being a damage over time.

As for the skill not working with Thaumaturge, I believe the latest update on PTS didn't make it into consoles I guess, because ZOS have stated it is a damage over time, same with flurry, it also procs Skoria. If they were to change it, they would have to change a lot about where Templars get their main damage from and then buff the skill up to make up for it.

NewBlacksmurf

@Nifty2g

Sorry the quotes too long.
Wrobel said its a DOT so...whatevs...dude needs to get on this topic and do some commenting.

I personally know that as written it's debatable but Wrobel ended that in the PTS threads oddly enough tho ppl are now saying a CP passive isn't applying.

Hmmmm. ....again tho... Where's @Wrobel ?

Flurry is completely different tho. As written and how it works, it's an instant cast which starts out right as a DOT should.
Due to that instant cast the skill does dmg over the time of the animation that cannot be interrupted, stoped by blocking.

If you couldn't interrupt or stop strikes and if it were and instant cast....you'd hear no disagreement from me.

IDK why you all keep saying the PTS PC patch didn't get updated for consoles tho cause it's not that they are using the same files and stuff. It's even a diff team working on consoles with some cross over of course but the PC PTS is different.
*edits below*

To be clear
-Sweeps...the ultimate is a DOT
-Strikes...per Wrobel is a DOT (point of discussion is here)
-Flurry...is a DOT

SublimeSparo

Wow. Just wow.
Was video evidence of the bug with the correct method to test the bug too complicated?
Was wrobels written word, added to the obvious fact that an ability that does damage over time is a dot, on an ability that procs a monster set that only procs on dots (skoria) and does not proc on a monster set that procs off non-dots (Nerien'eth) too complicated?
This isn't even up for discussion, this argument was thoroughly proven by both @Nifty2g and confirmed by wrobel and the issue was rectified on pc.

templesus

Umm guys, can you please read this, BURNING LIGHT IS SCALING OFF WEAPON DAMAGE NO MATTER WHICH IS HIGHER

SublimeSparo

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom Any update on this?

willymchilybily

[snip]

On page 2 post #50 @TequilaFire posted a confirmation from ZOS this was a bug during the PTS. was "being fixed" aka not working as intended.

quotes confirmations directly from ZOS

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

Sugaroverdose wrote: »

Van_0S wrote: »

Khaos_Bane wrote: »

cpuScientist wrote: »

@ZOS_GinaBruno

Any news on a fix to the thaumaturge bug?

Yeah this is starting to worry me now. ZoS has no issues pushing bugged code out into their live production environments.

What bug?

Sweeps on current PTS build isn't scales from thaumaturge CP passive, which is confirmed bug and fix confirmed to be released before DB hits live.

Is this fixed yet?

The bug with Thaumaturge is being fixed in the PTS incremental patch on Monday.

as well as @Talvorian on page 3 #66 linking the patch notes that confirm the bug. directly stating Puncturing sweeps as being affected by the bug

Talvorian wrote: »

[snip]
Please see the note below from PTS.

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/267224/pts-patch-notes-v2-4-4/p1

And the statement included:

The Ritual
Thaumaturge: Fixed an issue where this champion passive was not increasing the actual damage of some damage over time abilities, such as Puncturing Strikes .
Known Issue: This champion passive is not increasing the tooltip values of some area of effect ticking abilities, such as Ash Cloud or Path of Darkness. However, the actual damage values are being increased.

Clearly this is a bug, to say anything else is simply being misinformed or not understanding ZOS intent with the ability.

yet in pages 4 and 5 the individual continues to dispute this. Please guys [snip] take it to PERSONAL MESSAGE if you want to discuss and debate the original bug.

THIS IS A CONFIMED BUG. and I for one want to hear the ZOS response on when/how/if it can and will be fixed. and not have to go 100 pages in to find it because of one individual derailing the topic

[edited for flaming]

Sargentwilko51

templesus wrote: »

Umm guys, can you please read this, BURNING LIGHT IS SCALING OFF WEAPON DAMAGE NO MATTER WHICH IS HIGHER

Is this a confirmed bug as well?

Additionally, thaumaturge also affected RD (touchy subject I know, but it did). Has anyone checked if RD is still scaling from both EE and Thaum as well?