Official Discussion Thread for "Matt Firor's Message from BE3"

technohic

Been gone a while and this sounds great, but what will XP rewards be? Woukd it make sense that non-vet characters should now earn progress toward champion points?

Looking forward to completing quests i missed or skipped in my 1st zone and getting something from doing so more than just wrecking all the NPCs in front of lower level players.

Elsonso

nimander99 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

nimander99 wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

RagnarFirehawk wrote: »

Not sure if have said this yet but one thing has got me thinking...

"higher level players will be the same “level" as lower level players" <~~~ So that means no matter what zone i go to my Max lvl Characters will be there for decreased in level to match them

or dose Battle leveling make them " Maxed " as well the contradiction with the line.
" Characters will have their level scaled the same way that we currently scale players to the level of DLC zones "

Dam, what a Paradox

Yeah, we were discussing this over at UESP. Does it mean that this will introduce battle-levelling that goes up and down, or does it mean that everything will be max level and everyone will scale up? I'm thinking the latter (while preferring the former), but it's definitely something that's not as clear-cut as it first seemed.

ZOS is already on record as saying that they don't like down scaling.

Everything will scale up to the current CP cap world wide. At every CP cap increase we will see Tamriel creatures "level up". So you will immediately battle level up to the Cap... Just like entering any DLC for the first time. The only thing that wont scale is crafting nodes, they will stay in line with the current leveling process, high end mats will remain DLC locked.

According to Kai, they will be scaling the crafting to match what they do with DLC zones and Potency runes.

Naturally, this can change or he might be wrong (or I would not be wasting my time posting here). If they just leave crafting alone, it would be almost exactly what I asked for 2 years ago. However, the crafting nodes are a deal breaker for me. I am not interested in playing this game if they insist on changing crafting nodes globally.

Let me make sure I understand what you are saying here by 'Globally'. Do you mean to say that nodes will scale to your skill level? If that's what I'm understanding then that's a poor change... But maybe it's a coding issue? Easier to just implement what's already in game via the DLC's we currently have.

I guess I'm gonna have to get busy gathering mats before the change.

This is what @ZOS_KaiSchober said, according to Google translate...

"Hello, you will - outside Cyrodiil - with any player, irrespective of level and Allianz, play together. No questions about the Alliance membership more if asked in guild chat for help. Meanwhile sources of raw materials have the ability to randomly adjust the yield either your level or your craft skill. Are there other options needed? I see at the moment is not why you want as specifically collect spider silk when neither matches the stage for skill."

Now, I get that he is not a game designer, and so I do not take his lack of understanding as to why someone would need a full range of mats with much alarm. I do expect the game designers to understand and take this into account. However, the debacle with Potency runes indicates they are not making a game with an interesting crafting economy; rather a game for solitary players who only craft for themselves. Not sure why.

ArcaneKaithel

This sounds absolutely awesome! I can't wait to get a new character slot and start again.

For those that think this will make the game too easy, there are ways you can make the game more difficult. Take off your gear, reduce it to one skill only, or be a bitchy hipster that complains about everything that ZOS changes. These can all work for you!

I personally am stoked!

VodkaVixen1979

I think a lot of people are not seeing the forest through the trees on this one. It is more like the population is so low they want to throw us all onto one server together to save money and call it something new without making anything. This is yet again catering to those who pass on through or pop in and out. All of the players who have been here for awhile are left scratching their heads at what ZOS is actually doing except eating in their free lunch cafeteria at headquarters.....

Blackfyre20

I feel like this change will take a substantial amount of resources from the ESO devs. Resources that could be spent fixing bugs, improving server performance, balancing classes, and working on new content. Seems like a major overhaul with little benefits.

widowmakerx

I just want to give a huge shout out to zeimax and say thank you for completely destroying the morale of my 400 to 500 cp pvp guild ( individuals who are eso plus members and buy additional crowns ) by anointing one tamriel, and effectively ending any competitive teamwork oriented pvp, you have succeeded in renaming, changing, and destroying the game they know and love, although I guess it is better than continuing in the direction of ( nightblades online) where a night blade can LOS break any attack by stealthing. You have a real talent for selling one thing them changing it so continuously that no one really cares anymore,bc there effort is pointless.

Cogo

ESO is a great game. But these changes to pretty much no character progress is just loosing my interest. I have been playing since launch and Sub since then. Champion points would be ok as progress if they where char bound and not account bound. I had several alts I was going to play, but lost all interest since there is no progress what so ever for them.

ESO is awesome and I love every DLC. Please dont make ESO into Wow-Kiddy-easy.

Please add a new layer of progression that is player specific. I'd LOVE to make several new alts and explore and PROGRESS.

Thanks

widowmakerx

Also to e3 zeimax and anyone else involved in Tamriel one: would it be possible for you to screen new hires for slit personalities disorder?would it possible for you to speak in completed sentences, instead of release bits and pieces and make everyone wonder what ##/## thing your gonna do next. Lastly is it possible to design a game make it great, and spend your time correcting the issues that exist instead of throwing a whole new level of ( were happy you invested countless hours, real money, and gold were proud of your achievements) were go on a disband and try a different game please don't leave

Arato

Cogo wrote: »

ESO is a great game. But these changes to pretty much no character progress is just loosing my interest. I have been playing since launch and Sub since then. Champion points would be ok as progress if they where char bound and not account bound. I had several alts I was going to play, but lost all interest since there is no progress what so ever for them.

ESO is awesome and I love every DLC. Please dont make ESO into Wow-Kiddy-easy.

Please add a new layer of progression that is player specific. I'd LOVE to make several new alts and explore and PROGRESS.

Thanks

There's plenty of character progression.

Champion point/perks
Skill line levels
Skill/morph levels
Gear
Skill points allowing for a larger and larger skillset to work with

A traditional character level isn't necessary.

mistermacintosh

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

dethbl00ms wrote: »

I'm concerned about over-population, but am going to hold off on criticism because I have been pleasantly surprised before.

A couple of suggestions for implementation: add banks to all cities (not just zone capitals) and allow crafting writs to be turned in at any city. This might reduce overcrowding in areas/zones.

Also consider adding trial hang-out areas outside of the instanced areas.

Honestly, if you really want to stop overcrowding, you'd want to put Undaunted camps in every zone.
That's what really started the big crowds in Alliance capitals. The capitals, like Mournhold, were no worse off than any other city in the Pact until they put the Undaunted camp there. Then everyone came there to pick up the quests and shout their LFGs.

Yes, without alliance restrictions it doesn't make much sense to turn in pledges at a specific camp when the same NPCs are in three different camps simultaneously.

Essiaga

This isn't anything to brag about. It's an obvious thing that should have been done since launch. There are so many obvious things were still waiting on.

When is ZOS going to address Battle Spirit? The fact that healing and shields work differently in PVP is a huge fail. The fact that it's been there for so long and so many things have been balanced around it should be infuriating to anyone who ever stepped foot in Cyrodiil, regardless if it effects your class or not.

Shield Stacking ... Changing duration did nothing to curve the power of stacking magicka based shields and did nothing to improve health based shields, two of which are class shields. Scaling shields on a stat that increases damage is unbalanced by design. This causes homogenization. How many magicka builds are using Harness and Healing Ward over their class shields?

Healing and BOL ... BoL has been nerfed again and again. The issue wasn't the # of people healed. It's the amount of healing it does. ZOS is building content around this level or heals. They're making more and more work, should they ever decide to fix this obvious mistake. Scaling healing on a stat that increases damage is unbalanced by design. This has caused to the Templar class nearly all of its mitigation, suffering nerf after nerf, to the point were its a cleanse and BoL. The DK class was hit pretty darn hard as well because Dragons Blood doesn't scale the same way. However Vigor is a staple skill for stam builds, and why not?!? Investing in DPS makes Vigor that much better.

What's the incentive to not to stack Damage through the roof? No really. What is the incentive? Hit harder = heal for more.

It doesn't appear ZOS has done anything to fix this. According to @Wrobel on ESO Live skills are supposed to work the same in PVE and PVP. It seriously makes him and ZOS seem incompetent when making statements like that and do nothing to fix Battle Spirit.

Some suggestions on things that I think plague this game.

BOL for everyone ...

It's the bane of the Templar class. It's OP/UP. It heals group members, but doesn't guarantee a heal for the caster. It doesn't guarantee the caster ANYTHING. There is no secondary effect. It doesn't passively buff.

Why not take BOL and move it to the Resto or Undanted Skill lines (once its scaled appropriately of course) so any class can heal and give the Templar a self heal? Maybe then you can return some of the mitigation that's been removed from the class.

"But this would be the obvious go to for magicka builds and PVP zerg heal spamming." you say? So counter it.
1. Healing only effects allies. Not the caster.

• No self cast means no good for dueling.
• No inadvertent/accidental healing while attempting to heal self.

2. Make it's cost really high and reduce it for legit heals.

• Cost 9000 magicka.
• Heal ally under 50% health reduces the cost by 50%.
• Healing allies under 25% health reduces the cost by 75%.

Skills like Puncturing Sweeps, Inhale, Sap Essence are OP in PVE aside from maybe Trials and silly one-shot boss mechanics, which it seems ZOS is finally getting away from.

The power of crouch ...

This is a picture of women crouching down on a staircase. Some of you might only see a staircase. If so it's because you are not in the same faction as her. I can see her so clearly she's in the same faction as I am.

Stealth is super powerful but far to easy to pull off. The thing is stealth IRL is of course its not so easy ... ESPECIALLY when you have a lot of people attempting to do it ... ESPECIALLY when there's nothing to hide behind ... especially when its well lit. people make noises and are made of matter. To walk right into a well laid out trap is cool. An ambush usually requires obstacles and strategies and coordination. To constantly be ganked because you simply don't posses the ability to see people squatting is lame. Squatting is how we take a crap in the woods, but people can still see us crapping.

• Enemy players should still be visable when crouched.
• They could be blacked out or less transparent and of course remove the faction indicator from above their heads and all.
• Your detection radius should over lap your allies and you being detected should remove them from stealth as well. Cascading out to all who's stealth radius is overlapping.
• Increase player detection radius based on party size.
  1-4 men =0% increase. 4-8 men =50% increase. 8+ =100% increase
• Heavy Armor should increase your detection radius.

Zergs and gankers will be a little easier to spot and ball group tactics could not be combined with stealth as easily.

• NPC will still react the same way.

Siege and Players

I've been jumped by 12 guys and died to siege. I took the damge and they did not. How does that work? You can say your allies are immune to your spells via magic, or immune to your physical attacks via precision skill. Siege though is essentially a car falling from the sky on fire (or what ever). Its not magicka. It's not precise. Its large and dangerous to anyone in its path. People can argue Nova and Meteor are similar but they are generated by a caster magically and therefore can be exempt from reason ... or their animation can be changed. IDC.

• Siege should harm ALL players and NPC in its path. Friend or foe, you going to get hurt if you're in the siege AOE.

Player Gaps ...

Player gaps seem to exist in all MMO so people can feel special and powerful. Well, in PVP I don't think you should be special unless of course you are special. People have to grind out mats and gear so they can someday be able to PVP competitively. When the max level increase the population in Cyrodiil temporarily goes down. Most popular PVP games are ones with out attributes and gear, etc. Where players are simply playing skill vs skill.

PVE starts with easier content and then gets harder. In PVP we start out as weak as we ever will and compete with players of more experience and therefore better gear, skill, and skills. It's like joining the UFC after you get your yellow belt.

Here's a few places where I think PVP can be made more competitive.

Gear Quality and Glyphs ...
PVP is supposed to be competitive. A guy with purple gear has no place unless he's just one of the zerg.

• Gear should be Battle Leveled to max level and Gold quality with Gold glyphs.

Armor Triats ...
PVEers use Divines. PVPers use Impenetrable. So you need to grind out 2 sets of gear, yellow them w/ yellow glyphs, or ...

• Add an optional toggle to change your traits to Impenetrable while in PVP.

Champion Points...

• No CP campaign already exists. Great Job!!
• Incentives it. Maybe grant bonus CP/TV/AP in that campaign. The CP campaigns should have better rewards of the worthy.

Alliance Skills ...
Requiring noobs to PVP before they have the tools to competitively PVP is a terrible idea. It means zerg up or go home. Skills such as Vigor and Magicka Det are staples of builds across the game. To have to farm AP for them, with out them is a recipe for Zerg up.

• Alliance skills should unlock when you enter Cyrodiil regardless of Alliance Rank.

Bonuses for winning?
A buff for taking a resource is simply not needed. There are already incentives to taking keeps and resources. Emp buffs are also not need. If they're in position to be Emp they're already doing pretty well.

• Buff the guys having a hard time. How?
  1. Make a buff called Rebirth. Res-ing at a way shrine increases you armor + spell resist by 10% for 10 mins.
  2. Make a buff called Underdog. Being under populated increases siege damage by 20% and reduces the damage you take from siege by 20%. This will allow a smaller force to attack and defend off a larger force.
  3. Make a buff called Favor of Talos. Reducing all incoming damage. Major buff (15%) applies to players Alliance Rank 5 and under. Minor buff (8%) applies to players Alliance rank 10 and under.
     (This will give inexperience players slightly longer fights to get the hang of PVP. Like training wheels.)
     
     This buff could remain and option at a cost. Perhaps 50% less AP from all sources. Could be granted by equipping a disguise you get for hitting Alliance rank 10. This will let people know who is using the buff so they can act inappropriately.

AP rewards for trying ...
If you try to take or defend a keep or fight a player and lose you get nothing. You can keep trying and get nothing for hours in Cyrodiil. Zergs and gankers and farmers can make PVP discouraging and simply not fun at all. No one plays ESO so they can die and ride a horse to die again. We want to compete. There isn't an alternative to open world style PVP where 1 is the loneliest number and 12 can be as sad as 1 when a zerg rolls through. So reward those that try.

• Award 25 AP on PVP deaths.
  • Award 100 AP when killed in defense of a keep (in addition to PVP death award).
  • Award 200 AP when killed while attacking a keep (in addition to PVP death award).
  • Award 50 AP when killed in defense of a resource (in addition to PVP death award).
  • Award 75 AP when killed while attacking a resource (in addition to PVP death award).

Cyrodiil population caps and PVE ...

IC should not be taken into account with Cyrodiil pop. It's a different instance. It's performance is totally different. If its somehow connected it shouldn't be.

Questers also bite into the pop cap. They have nothing to do with the Battles but yet the effect them.

• Make a PVP FREE Cyrodiil campaign. This would be like the Adventure Zone we were told we were getting but haven't. Keeps can be maned by more guards and add a boss or 2 in each keep instead of the flags. Like World Bosses the Keeps could re-spawn every so often. This could also be used as a way for PVERs to earn Alliance skill lines and be able to purchase PVP gear sets, though you might not want to call it AP. Perhaps Alliance Currency or just use TV.
• Make an IC PVP FREE. Wouldn't really need to change much.

Wall Repair ...

This is tiny but still ... I get that you want to have money/AP sinks in the game but many players just avoid repairing walls to keep those resources which effects the way the game plays out for others. Others simply don't repair because they only want to PVP and no play the Campaign game.

Why would we buy stone from someone to fix their house at a net lost to ourselves? That's just bad business.

• Wall Repair kits should be free.

Rewards...

This game is all about the RNG. Quest rewards stink. They are decon or vendor. The only reason to do quest is XP or fun. Improve quest rewards.

• Include set pieces in quest rewards in lower level zones.
  I've never completed a full 5pc of a level 1-50 dropped set. They simply don't drop fast enough while I'm questing through the Zone.
• Include Purple and Yellow quality non-set items so decon-ing is potentially rewarding.
• Include crafting mats of value such as motifs relating to the quests or zone, purple and yellow crafting mats.Examples would be ... Orsiniam - Trinimac, Malacath, etc. ...Quest involving constructs - Dwemer.

Finders Keepers: Thieves Troves are special caches that are located all around Tamriel. They have a distinct blue glow around them. If you happen to spot a Thieves Trove, it's yours to keep if you can open it. You'll need this Thieves Guild passive to secure your prize!

I spent crown on TG after finding these laying around and people linked a set in them. Its the only set I've ever seen. I don't need crappy pots and lock picks. I basically spent the equivalent of money and get nothing of value from these things.

• Add dropped set items.
• Add crafted set jewelry.
• Add nirn crux items ... I mean Crag is dead and nirn is all but worthless but some people might like to research that ninth trait.
• Add disguises that might have been missed through out the game.
• Add motifs.
• crafting mats of value.
  

Enchanting ...

There is almost no value to Aspect ruins other than Yellow at end game. The only value white - purple aspect ruins have is crafting for decon to level Enchanting or low level crafting. Yet every time i find a ruin, "Ta'da!"

• change enchanting to require improvements like the other professions
  OR
• allow them to be combined and upgraded.
  10 Ta = 1 Jejota
  10 Jejota = 1 Denata
  10 Denata = 1 Rekuta
  10 Rekuta = 1 Kuta
• Assign a value to all ruins so I can vendor them and get something. Everything in the game should have a vendor value.

Poisons ...

It's great to have your 11k stamina sapped to the point you can't perform a dodge roll or block from a light attacks. Thanks for that Bull ***. It fun to lose control of your character and have to adjust for such an OP non-class orient gimmick. Why not just tell the casual people who don't live and breath PVP to bugger off already.

Arenas ...

Seriously if you would just balance battle spirit out of the game, stop adding horse crap like poisons (which simply could have been the stamina version of enchants at launch and people would have been completely fine with it) and add some very basic arenas ESO could be next level.

I'm afraid your going to make another bloated AvAvAvE piece of crap like you want IC to be.

For arena's please ...

• Release one arena. Then add another like DLC. Don't come up with 15 Arenas that, much like the campaigns, will fall away do to lack of population. Don't spread to thin.
• Drop the faction BS. This isn't Alliance Wars. It's PVP. Let people que up and fight.
• Drop the MOBs and DO NOT add environmental effects (like frost or poison mist).
• Don't worry about specific numbers. Just even numbers.
  If you have 2 in que, play 1v1. 20 in que, play 10v10. 2 more que up, drop them in and go 11v11. If someone drop insert another person or keep the next player to die from that team from resing until another ques up.
• Go simple. Death Match (Most kills wins) w/ 2 options. Team or Free-For-All.
• 15-30 min games.
• Scoring ... AP/XP/TV per kill. Individual score, with a team multiplier. Then winning team gets a bonus.
  • Killing those that hold higher Alliance Ranks/CP could reward more AP/XP/TV.
  • Add bonuses. No Deaths bonuses. Killing streak Bonuses.
• Leader boards ... Leader Boards should reflect the best Average score. AP earned/time in arena. The best of the best should be reflected. Beyond that the reward system is pretty much as it is in Cyrodiil.
• An option for players to create an arena and invite people to join would be really cool. It could just be invites to the zone and then groups can be formed from there. These arenas would be excluded from the Leader Boards and kills would only give simple AP per kill.
  
  There are already many maps you can use for this. Just add a few spawn points, maybe remove some doors to a few buildings.
  Here's 3 and I can name more ...
  • Stirk (where the 3 crowns met prior to porting to Cold Harbor).
  • Eyevea (the Mages Guild sanctuary).
  • The Hallow City in Cold Harbor ... just close up the doors at the exits ...

Disguise ...

• In game disguise should be able to be added to Collections.[

Enough for now.

DaveMc

I'm glad that this is coming in, my new characters will be able to move around a lot more despite the usual moaners

Cherryblossom

dimensional wrote: »

You guys act like there aren't already zone instances with player caps. This won't affect performance.

You weren't here at launch then? When due to server load within Zones, NPC don't Spawn, Lag, Skills fail, you can't change weapon. some of these issues persist and we don't have everyone in the same area. Cyrodiil is a prime example of ZOS failure to have more than a few people in one area.

So tell me why shouldn't people be concerned!

GawdSB

I don't get it, so is there going to be no more leveling your character?

RDMyers65b14_ESO

OK, maybe I can get an answer to this question. With this rebranding, will there be a DLC or is the rebranding separate from the DLCs? I am more interested in the DLCs than the rebranding as I have maxed characters. Q3 starts in two weeks and that means another DLC. We still need housing and barbershop. I doubt both will be released at the same time as they are both big things.

I realize that ZOS will be very busy over the next few weeks with DB hitting the consoles this week. The announcement made is at a bad timing as we likely won't be given an answer until after things calm down from DB's console launch. This is only going to frustrate the player base. I guess that you had to have something to announce. Why couldn't it be what the next DLC would be instead of the rebranding. I keep trying to remember if when the game was last rebranded if the update was the same day or if it was separate. I believe that it was the same day. Will this be 3.0 or 2.5?

Cherryblossom

I like this idea and I welcome this change.

But; I'm scared that it's ZOS who are implementing this! I've seen nothing to suggest that this will be done well.

The game is unbalanced, always is, this is proven by every update the continual change in how the whole combat system works. Now they are going to introduce a Battle Leveling system, which anyone who's been in Cyrodiil knows doesn't work well.

Questing; We all know that instances work badly when you are grouped with a friend who is ahead in the story.
Go kill this monster! Where is the monster, ahhh it's been killed by these guys here. (I think you get what I mean)
Finding the main story line is nigh impossible without guides telling you where they are, yet we can now hop all over the place.
Group Finder doesn't work!

LAG; Anyone who's been in Cyrodiil knows the issue of lag when there is a large quantity of people in one area, now there will be more people in the zones rather than them spread out in there own factions. There was Lag during the launch period and after due to server load, since then there has been changes to the Coding in ESO which has destroyed Cyrodiil, so we should be expecting this to be worse if we are now all in one place.

Material gathering, how is this going to work! is it going to scale? Or is it still going to be area specific, I'm hoping its the later, otherwise once I level my skill I can no longer craft for my lowbie alts.

How will we move from one area to the next, are they opening the Wayshrines without finding them? they aren't linked by road ways.

I'm sure there are many answers to some of the questions asked in this thread, but I'm positive that there are questions which ZOS has not even thought about.

I'm hoping that ZOS proves my fear's are unfounded, but based on history of implementations by ZOS I have my doubts.

ADarklore

All I see is this... ZOS sees that game popularity is extremely low... 7M accounts after being out this long is quite LOW for an MMO. So, instead of devoting resources to fixing and adding new content for existing players, they develop a scheme to try and bring in NEW players. After all, just a short time ago they stated, 'we have no intention of going back and revisiting older content' and now here they are. We're all about to feel like what it must have been to be a beta/launch player on PC and spend all those months without receiving anything new. After all, there was NOTHING about anything new in their announcement about future DLCs and wasn't it them who stated they planned to stick with the QUARTERLY DLC launch?!? Go figure.

Kalathir

DaveMoeDee wrote: »

Acrolas wrote: »

So I can create a brand-new DC character, walk from Glenumbra to Auridon... and fight Covenant soldiers.
BRILLIANT.
The game wasn't designed for inter-faction traveling. Silver and Gold interactions made that painfully obvious, and now they've just bum *** a battle leveling system on top of it.

"In general, higher level players will be the same “level" as lower level players, but they will have far more tools in their arsenal: better gear, more abilities, and of course more Champion points."

So the game really will be a CP-measuring contest now. Thanks guys.


"One Tamriel will not affect the PvP systems in Cyrodiil."

Of course it does. This makes PVP obsolete because you're now allowed to play all three sides at your whim. You're not a champion anymore. You're a tourist.

Welcome to Disneynirn.

You are really exaggerating the impact on Cyrodiil. People already have characters in multiple factions, even with questing limitations. Not a big deal.

My bigger concern will be the scaling. It will be interesting to see how they keep zones playable for characters in soul-shriven rags and no skills while not making them even easier than they are now for max level players.

They have been doing this in Guild Wars 2 for a long time and it works very well. Each zone has a level range (ex. lvl 25-30) but when a character with a higher level goes into that zone it scales the stats of the character and items to the maximum level of that zone while letting him/her keep the skills from higher levels. The character is not overpowered but it does has more skills and attack options.

Enodoc

widowmakerx wrote: »

I just want to give a huge shout out to zeimax and say thank you for completely destroying the morale of my 400 to 500 cp pvp guild ( individuals who are eso plus members and buy additional crowns ) by anointing one tamriel, and effectively ending any competitive teamwork oriented pvp, you have succeeded in renaming, changing, and destroying the game they know and love, although I guess it is better than continuing in the direction of ( nightblades online) where a night blade can LOS break any attack by stealthing. You have a real talent for selling one thing them changing it so continuously that no one really cares anymore,bc there effort is pointless.

They have said already that this will not affect PvP.

KerinKor

sadownik wrote: »

AverageFurry wrote: »

At least this will remove the theme park-feel that some players might have.

lol no. Its still themepark and thats the problem. its another change without changing fundament.

There's a very good reason why there are very few successful (ie. still running) sandbox MMOs: the vast majority of players don't want to play them.

Docmandu

Am a bit confused... when I read the announcement, I assumed they were removing level 1-50, like they removed Veteran Ranks, but the announcement doesn't actually say that.

So what will happen?! Will level 1-50 remain, but battle level you? Or will 1-50 be removed and everything just use CP ? and will the mobs then have different CP scales as it is now for the VR zones?!

Elsonso

VodkaVixen1979 wrote: »

I think a lot of people are not seeing the forest through the trees on this one. It is more like the population is so low they want to throw us all onto one server together to save money and call it something new without making anything. This is yet again catering to those who pass on through or pop in and out. All of the players who have been here for awhile are left scratching their heads at what ZOS is actually doing except eating in their free lunch cafeteria at headquarters.....

I have said for a long while now that they need to make on Tamriel, instead of three. The PVE lines between alliances has been blurred for a good while now, and it is silly that there are really three games in one. There are a few reasons to do this, both technical and per the story. For example, why would you find other "heroes" in the Cadwell zones when you have already solved the whole Molag Bal issue?

The technichal issue of population and spreading people out is largely moot with the way they break people apart who are in the same alliance. Addressing low population is a concern, and throwing people together will solve that, but mainly in the Cadwell zones. We already know that the Cadwell zones are sparsely populated simply because people do not spend a lot of time there. Outside of Cadwell, populations are not any apparent concern, at least on PC NA.

Additional Lag is should not be a problem. There are already more people in the zones than can be handled by a single channel, so whatever new people are there will just spawn more channels. Of course, this is ZOS. Give them 30 minutes and I am sure they can find some way to muck things up.

tinythinker

Docmandu wrote: »

Am a bit confused... when I read the announcement, I assumed they were removing level 1-50, like they removed Veteran Ranks, but the announcement doesn't actually say that.

So what will happen?! Will level 1-50 remain, but battle level you? Or will 1-50 be removed and everything just use CP ? and will the mobs then have different CP scales as it is now for the VR zones?!

There is much that isn't clear, but 1-50 will remain. It isn't known how the zoness themselves will scale -- for example, if they will all now be CP 150 or 160 or it will work some other way -- but, there is this:

• "Characters will have their level scaled the same way that we currently scale players to the level of DLC zones."
• "In general, higher level players will be the same 'level' as lower level players, but they will have far more tools in their arsenal: better gear, more abilities, and of course more Champion points."

So leveling is there to unlock skills (active and passive) as well as better gear and raised attributes. You will still be more powerful at level 40 than a level 10 because of these things, but probably not as much as you are now. The distinction will really take off at level 50 by earning Champion Points.

Mysticman

Another case of Zenimax dumping down the game for the casual players who don't want have to work for anything or have to earn anything who want everything handed to them on a silver platter. This game is already way too easy soon it wouldn't matter if you're level 5 or level 49 it will all be stupidly the same.

Arato

They still have leveling guys calm down. Sheesh I can't believe people are so stuck on leveling up and keeping to the stupid themepark design of the game. It honestly makes no sense since this game has individual skill lines. Character levels are for games where you don't have individual character skills that can be advanced, so you need a way to show your character getting better at things, so you gain a level and suddenly you're better at everything, even the things your character isn't practicing at. In TES games, you get better at using a sword by using swords, not by gaining character levels. Having a themepark design where the landscape is separated by levels is just silly anyway. In a real living Tamriel, a Giant Spider is a Giant Spider, there'd be no difference between a Giant Spider in Grahtwood and a Giant Spider that happens to be across a zone line in Malabal Tor, but in themepark Tamriel, that spider is 15 levels higher so it's much more powerful, because of artificial reasons. It also makes no sense that iron, a really common material in the world's crust, would only be found in Auridon and other low level zones. Themepark design with leveled zones is just dumb.

TheTraveler

Arato wrote: »

Cogo wrote: »

ESO is a great game. But these changes to pretty much no character progress is just loosing my interest. I have been playing since launch and Sub since then. Champion points would be ok as progress if they where char bound and not account bound. I had several alts I was going to play, but lost all interest since there is no progress what so ever for them.

ESO is awesome and I love every DLC. Please dont make ESO into Wow-Kiddy-easy.

Please add a new layer of progression that is player specific. I'd LOVE to make several new alts and explore and PROGRESS.

Thanks

There's plenty of character progression.

Champion point/perks
Skill line levels
Skill/morph levels
Gear
Skill points allowing for a larger and larger skillset to work with

A traditional character level isn't necessary.

Sir, please, you obviously are not a fan of RPG's. This game purported to be an RPG. I put a lot of money into this game, expecting it to behave like an RPG. RPG's involve starting off weak, and building up a progressively stronger character. Progressing in this way, gives the player a goal to work towards and satisfaction in reaping the rewards. People like yourself want to take this away from myself and other RPG-lovers.

You say "skill line levels" well... what does 400 skills help me if I have only 2 bars of 5 (6 with ult) skills each that I can use at a time?
...and why bother to bust your gut finding the ultra scarce and expensive resources for CP160 gear, when the brand-new player with his level 3 gear scales to the same level anyway, just for much, much cheaper?

Please, please, ZOS - make a new action-kiddie game for people who prefer action games with instant rewards, and leave this an RPG for those who have invested a lot of time and money into what they thought was an RPG because it was marketed as an RPG.

Oh, Bethesda, the makers of Morrowind and Daggerfall must be crying into their pillows at night to see what you have done to a once-great franchise.

If they do this, I want my money back. What is being proposed here, is not the game i signed up for

...and I DO have friends in the game, btw, and I CAN ALREADY go and play with a friend's level 1 toon with my VR16 toon, I don't see what prevents the vet toon to enter and play in the starter areas - in fact, as we speak there are vet characters farming the starter areas and robbing the newbies of precious resources; don't ask me why they cannot stick to their own areas instead.

I was planning to buy this game for my cousin's birthday so that we can play it together, but I will definitely not do so anymore, and am thinking seriously of unsubbing.

Stardweller

Well, that's a very hard message for me today…

In fact, they could remove levelling completely (that's NOT a suggestion - in fact, levelling is the most fun part about an MMO for me! After hitting max level, I usually create a new toon because I don't like end content since it's all about "how many CP do you have? what's your equip? No we can't take you with us, you don't have voice chat...")...

Long story short: I already hated this "battle levelling", and now it's coming to the whole game! Seriously, this is something that ruins the game for me.

As for me, grouping has never been a problem, since you are scaled in dungeon finder now anyway. Now, why don't they fix the dungeon finder finally, by the way? It's getting more crapped with every patch instead of fixed!!
(At the moment, it only works with 4 players in a group - I can't queue alone anymore).

TheTraveler

lordrichter wrote: »

VodkaVixen1979 wrote: »

I think a lot of people are not seeing the forest through the trees on this one. It is more like the population is so low they want to throw us all onto one server together to save money and call it something new without making anything. This is yet again catering to those who pass on through or pop in and out. All of the players who have been here for awhile are left scratching their heads at what ZOS is actually doing except eating in their free lunch cafeteria at headquarters.....

I have said for a long while now that they need to make on Tamriel, instead of three. The PVE lines between alliances has been blurred for a good while now, and it is silly that there are really three games in one. There are a few reasons to do this, both technical and per the story. For example, why would you find other "heroes" in the Cadwell zones when you have already solved the whole Molag Bal issue?

The technichal issue of population and spreading people out is largely moot with the way they break people apart who are in the same alliance. Addressing low population is a concern, and throwing people together will solve that, but mainly in the Cadwell zones. We already know that the Cadwell zones are sparsely populated simply because people do not spend a lot of time there. Outside of Cadwell, populations are not any apparent concern, at least on PC NA.

Additional Lag is should not be a problem. There are already more people in the zones than can be handled by a single channel, so whatever new people are there will just spawn more channels. Of course, this is ZOS. Give them 30 minutes and I am sure they can find some way to muck things up.

I agree on one point; Cadwell is rather silly. They should rather just remove the Cadwell's Silver requirement for being able to move on to Cadwell Gold zones, and throw the rest of Tamriel open to the player who has completed the MQ. Perhaps make it so that once a player has completed the MQ, then the alliances can mix in what is now the Cadwell's gold and silver zones. that would help solve the problems to do with low player pops in those areas, because it would give players the freedom, then, to mix with their friends from other alliances once the MQ or alternatively, the MQ line of their starter area is done, and this will also provide motivation to finish the "harborage" or "area" MQ lines, whichever would give the player access to the other alliances.

...but wanting to remove levels from an RPG just seems preposterous to me, and I really hoping that is not what ZOS is planning to do.

TheTraveler

Arato wrote: »

They still have leveling guys calm down. Sheesh I can't believe people are so stuck on leveling up and keeping to the stupid themepark design of the game. It honestly makes no sense since this game has individual skill lines. Character levels are for games where you don't have individual character skills that can be advanced, so you need a way to show your character getting better at things, so you gain a level and suddenly you're better at everything, even the things your character isn't practicing at. In TES games, you get better at using a sword by using swords, not by gaining character levels. Having a themepark design where the landscape is separated by levels is just silly anyway. In a real living Tamriel, a Giant Spider is a Giant Spider, there'd be no difference between a Giant Spider in Grahtwood and a Giant Spider that happens to be across a zone line in Malabal Tor, but in themepark Tamriel, that spider is 15 levels higher so it's much more powerful, because of artificial reasons. It also makes no sense that iron, a really common material in the world's crust, would only be found in Auridon and other low level zones. Themepark design with leveled zones is just dumb.

Er, no. In all the previous TES games, you had levels. Even in the super-easy, no-challenge at all Skyrim. ...and in fact, leveling was more intricate in the first few games and was gradually dumbed down as more and more casual players were pulled into the market. But you definitely had basic attribute progression AND skill-line progression, and skill-lines were two-fold, not single as they are in ESO. Classes were also more complex. ...and that was a GOOD thing.

nimander99

TheTraveler wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

They still have leveling guys calm down. Sheesh I can't believe people are so stuck on leveling up and keeping to the stupid themepark design of the game. It honestly makes no sense since this game has individual skill lines. Character levels are for games where you don't have individual character skills that can be advanced, so you need a way to show your character getting better at things, so you gain a level and suddenly you're better at everything, even the things your character isn't practicing at. In TES games, you get better at using a sword by using swords, not by gaining character levels. Having a themepark design where the landscape is separated by levels is just silly anyway. In a real living Tamriel, a Giant Spider is a Giant Spider, there'd be no difference between a Giant Spider in Grahtwood and a Giant Spider that happens to be across a zone line in Malabal Tor, but in themepark Tamriel, that spider is 15 levels higher so it's much more powerful, because of artificial reasons. It also makes no sense that iron, a really common material in the world's crust, would only be found in Auridon and other low level zones. Themepark design with leveled zones is just dumb.

Er, no. In all the previous TES games, you had levels. Even in the super-easy, no-challenge at all Skyrim. ...and in fact, leveling was more intricate in the first few games and was gradually dumbed down as more and more casual players were pulled into the market. But you definitely had basic attribute progression AND skill-line progression, and skill-lines were two-fold, not single as they are in ESO. Classes were also more complex. ...and that was a GOOD thing.

Yeah, still one of my favorite features of Morrowind and Oblivion was experimenting with designing my own classes. I cant tell you how many hours I spent re-rolling characters just to the right feel, and naming my classes was also fun!