Official Discussion Thread for "Matt Firor's Message from BE3"

Elsonso

Enodoc wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Akrasjel wrote: »

Nothing about future DLCs

Sounds like One Tamriel is a "free" second half DLC that will combine both the 3rd and 4th quarter DLC

Would that count though? The purpose of DLC is new content, and stuff that you need to pay for (otherwise it's not DLC). One Tamriel is rehashing existing content. I could see One Tamriel being the main base game feature of Update 11, but Update 11 will also need some new, paid-for content for them to keep to their strategy of one DLC per quarter.

Well, it is a DLC if they call it that

The bigger question is whether they have more to sell us this year in 3Q and 4 for DLC content. I think they need to have this, but obviously, some team has been hard at work on One Tamriel. Whether that left enough people assigned to the Live game to also do DLC content is a question.

I would think that they would have mentioned the 3Q DLC at this shindig, but then ZOS is pretty dysfunctional in the way they communicate with us. Part of me is surprised they can get up the confidence to tell us about stuff before they actually ship it.

In any case, no mention of DLC means that they have nothing more to say until after One Tamriel.

ShedsHisTail

My only real beef with this is story continuity.
Please just make sure that the story quests are given prerequisite quests that need to be completed first.

Like, I don't see any problem with skipping Stonefalls entirely and goin right into Deeshan or the Eastmarch; but set it up in such a fashion that only the side-quests are available in these later zones unless you've completed the main story quests from the earlier zones. Otherwise you end up with continuity issues where you're doing the story all out of order.

I know it was said on the panel that you can "RP this however you want" but things like story continuity aren't really things that can be RPed away and, even as much a folks tend to shrug it off, story is a big part of these games; and if the story is nonsense the game will be significantly less engaging.

That said, do the same thing with cross-faction adventuring. If I'm playing as a Pact character and decide to head to Auridon, don't let me just pick the main story quest and start working for the Queen. I choose the Ebonheart pact as my main allegiance, allow tht to still be significant outside of PvP. Sure, let me do all the side quests and world bosses and anchors and whatever in Auridon as much as I want; but leave the main story of opposing factions off limits until I unlock them through Cadwell.

In short; I think this is a great addition, but make efforts to keep the story in tact, please.

mistermacintosh

I'm concerned about over-population, but am going to hold off on criticism because I have been pleasantly surprised before.

A couple of suggestions for implementation: add banks to all cities (not just zone capitals) and allow crafting writs to be turned in at any city. This might reduce overcrowding in areas/zones.

Also consider adding trial hang-out areas outside of the instanced areas.

ShedsHisTail

dethbl00ms wrote: »

I'm concerned about over-population, but am going to hold off on criticism because I have been pleasantly surprised before.

A couple of suggestions for implementation: add banks to all cities (not just zone capitals) and allow crafting writs to be turned in at any city. This might reduce overcrowding in areas/zones.

Also consider adding trial hang-out areas outside of the instanced areas.

Honestly, if you really want to stop overcrowding, you'd want to put Undaunted camps in every zone.
That's what really started the big crowds in Alliance capitals. The capitals, like Mournhold, were no worse off than any other city in the Pact until they put the Undaunted camp there. Then everyone came there to pick up the quests and shout their LFGs.

Faulgor

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

My only real beef with this is story continuity.
Please just make sure that the story quests are given prerequisite quests that need to be completed first.

You'd think that would make sense, but that isn't the case right now, either. I can skip all quests until the last zone, say Bangkorai, do the questchain there and get acces to Coldharbour, without even touching the quests in the other zones. Never really made sense to me.

Brightuatha

I like all these changes. I would also like to see more solo content, as I work with people and it is nice to have the option to do things alone at times.

Enodoc

lordrichter wrote: »

Enodoc wrote: »

lordrichter wrote: »

Akrasjel wrote: »

Nothing about future DLCs

Sounds like One Tamriel is a "free" second half DLC that will combine both the 3rd and 4th quarter DLC

Would that count though? The purpose of DLC is new content, and stuff that you need to pay for (otherwise it's not DLC). One Tamriel is rehashing existing content. I could see One Tamriel being the main base game feature of Update 11, but Update 11 will also need some new, paid-for content for them to keep to their strategy of one DLC per quarter.

Well, it is a DLC if they call it that

What, One Tamriel? I'm seeing that as more of a name like Tamriel Unlimited; a name to indicate a change in the direction of the game, not the name of a piece of content.

Arato

Another question @ZOS_JessicaFolsom .. how is xp going to be dealt with for people who are over the level of the quests now that the zones won't be for veterans anymore. Will the quests for level 50 characters still be considered level 50?

If they're not level 50 and are their original non veteran levels, they will give veterans really awful xp. Currently doing the silver/gold content will give you at least 100 champion levels of xp. That could be gone.

That and crafting materials seem like such a mess that I would just drop the levels, streamline the crafting mats, change how gear is gated off, and just essentially relaunch the game.(making all T5+ materials become T5 materials)

Ghost-Shot

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom does this mean that the fall expansion will not be any content but just this One Tamriel thing? I would have expected an announcement of content coming with it if it were the case and if there is and he just didn't mention it you missed a huge opportunity to get people hyped. Keep in mind that World of Warcraft is releasing the Legion expansion on 8/30 and many of us hope to see Camelot Unchained in a functioning Beta state by that time so its probably in your best interest to have a really good content update slated around that time.

Roechacca

Great news. I'll be sure to tell some people that left because grouping was a problem. This will help us help them level up.

potirondb16_ESO

The worst issue about this announcement is ressource affectation. Lately we've seen a lot of ressource which had been dedicated to improve the overall experience of the newest player:

- Removal of vet-Rank:
- Dailies DLC model which are not requiring you to confront your skill with the other player
- Solo Content

The fact that they had created new trial hasn't created any real improvement through the game since most of those trial are still unaccessible to the community because they had been created for 0,5% of the playerbase, player who are pulling some unrealistic number* as far as a regular player can tell. (vMoL)

Also the fact that they had really lower the overall 4-man content and also that they haven't increase the number of those dungeon is also an issue. The fact that most of the end-game gear isn't consistent with what most player would find appealing in term of end-game possibility is also an issue**.

So overall the fact that they are rationalizing the game isn't for me an issue. The fact that this announcement gets prior starlight over all the end-game and overall continuity of the game is Something that does botters me.


* Pulling 45k Dps on a single characther when the really good group player reach 30k at best ! and when the good one does 24/28k.
** I would personnally love to see soft cap reintroduce and get some improvement in term of end-game gear instead of bringing some undermining bonus to some of those set.

Valerien

The more I think about it just seems worse and worse.

The main problem with PvE grouping is that it sucks outside of what you need it for, which is to take on challenges. You don't need it for the standard game and it actually helps ruin the standard game. First off I should say its been a long while since I bothered to group for the standard game so it may have changed but my experience was that the dialogue was not synced so I didn't know if my group had skipped through and was waiting for me but then the quests weren't synced either so they probably shouldn't have bothered. Next is that I don't need to group to get credit for other peoples work, if I come across a world boss and want to help someone out I can without grouping. That aside the dialogue (or quest system) sucks for grouping lets have a simple quest.

NPC: Help help help I've been attacked by bandits
Me: Whats the problem that I am dying to help you with
NPC: Help Help I've been attacked by bandits, they are bandits and very bandit like
Me: So your saying some kind of bandit?
NPC: Help Help Yes I've been attacked by bandits
Me: And you have been attacked?
Group mate: For ****s sake skip the *****ing dialogue I don't need to be grouped to watch you and them have a conversation I can't see or hear.
NPC: Yes Bandits, attacked!
Me: Tell me about these bandits?
NPC: They are bandits and they attacked us?
Me: So what can you tell me about Skooma
Group mate: If I'm stood here with my *****ing finger up my **** while your asking about Skooma again I'm going to end you.
NPC: Its made from moon sugar.... though surely every NPCs in the Dominion has told you about this about 1000 times
Me: Moon Sugar?
Group mate: **** it I'm going to go do the quest catch up when your finished going through the next 10 lines of dialogue about something that has no effect to the mission and I skipped through cause I just don't care.
NPC: Thank you kind sir your group mate has completed the quest, here's some gold.
Me: Now hang on, I want to know about this moon sugar, not be thanked for anothers work.

There is not much to take from Star Wars the Old Republic but before they went crazy and tried to have a one story fits all approach they knew how to make group dialogue and option. Everyone saw the same dialogue (and if everyone skipped it could be skipped). If you want people to group the quests and the choices have to be across the group and everyone needs to see the dialogue play out, with the differences based on choices you made. Cause lets face it if people are telling you the reason I don't group cause of level or alliance they are lying. They don't group cause if you have played through the content and listened to the dialogue you don't want to stand around waiting for some new player to select through the dialogue. And the new player doesn't want to keep their mate waiting while they listen to it and feels compelled to skip it. Even if much (though not the repeative skooma stuff) adds to the experience.

Next up, if we are having One Tamriel, will you be getting rid of any quests that have faction members attacking each other. Take for example I'm a loyal DC Breton, I then walk and sail to Bleakrock where my DC friends are attacking the evil pact. Only I'm treated like a loyal pact member by the pact and attacked on sight by my DC friends. Which is pretty bad, but also flies in the face of this One Tamriel approach which gives the impression of a hands across Tamriel junk that we are all one faction.

Now I get with Orsinium and the difficulty of explaining why my Altmer is helping an ugly orc build his city which is only going to make it harder for us to crush them it makes for hard story telling. So you want to force a one faction play style. But you have to make a choice there is either a three banners war or there is one Tamriel. If its one united land then having faction vs faction pve quests makes no sense. And once the lore and the story and much of the dialogue makes no sense you are ripping much of the foundation out of experience leaving it as pure combat as you may as well skip all dialogue as my group mate wanted cause whats being said doesn't make any sense.

Ghost-Shot

potirondb16_ESO wrote: »

The worst issue about this announcement is ressource affectation. Lately we've seen a lot of ressource which had been dedicated to improve the overall experience of the newest player:

- Removal of vet-Rank:
- Dailies DLC model which are not requiring you to confront your skill with the other player
- Solo Content

The fact that they had created new trial hasn't created any real improvement through the game since most of those trial are still unaccessible to the community because they had been created for 0,5% of the playerbase, player who are pulling some unrealistic number* as far as a regular player can tell. (vMoL)

Also the fact that they had really lower the overall 4-man content and also that they haven't increase the number of those dungeon is also an issue. The fact that most of the end-game gear isn't consistent with what most player would find appealing in term of end-game possibility is also an issue**.

So overall the fact that they are rationalizing the game isn't for me an issue. The fact that this announcement gets prior starlight over all the end-game and overall continuity of the game is Something that does botters me.


* Pulling 45k Dps on a single characther when the really good group player reach 30k at best ! and when the good one does 24/28k.
** I would personnally love to see soft cap reintroduce and get some improvement in term of end-game gear instead of bringing some undermining bonus to some of those set.

That's what normal mode is for, the normal player. They have said several times that if vet modes are for the high end players looking for a challenge. They even gave you a way to get vet mode gear from the normal, it just takes longer which sounds about right to me.

Enodoc

Arato wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_JessicaFolsom .. how is xp going to be dealt with for people who are over the level of the quests now that the zones won't be for veterans anymore. Will the quests for level 50 characters still be considered level 50?

If they're not level 50 and are their original non veteran levels, they will give veterans really awful xp. Currently doing the silver/gold content will give you at least 100 champion levels of xp. That could be gone.

@Arato I'm assuming quests will be changed to work like the Guild quests and Main quests. Those always give XP that is appropriate to your level.

ShedsHisTail

Faulgor wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

My only real beef with this is story continuity.
Please just make sure that the story quests are given prerequisite quests that need to be completed first.

You'd think that would make sense, but that isn't the case right now, either. I can skip all quests until the last zone, say Bangkorai, do the questchain there and get acces to Coldharbour, without even touching the quests in the other zones. Never really made sense to me.

Yeah, and that's always bugged me.
but that's a pretty rare instance, you don't get a lot of folks doing that; and those who do, do it deliberately. But when you open up the entire world for that sort of thing you're going to get people who do it inadvertently. Those people are the ones who will then complain that the story makes no sense.

It's one thing to bypass the story intentionally for reasons of expediency; it's another thing to make it so easy that people will do it by accident.

Enodoc

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

My only real beef with this is story continuity.
Please just make sure that the story quests are given prerequisite quests that need to be completed first.

You'd think that would make sense, but that isn't the case right now, either. I can skip all quests until the last zone, say Bangkorai, do the questchain there and get acces to Coldharbour, without even touching the quests in the other zones. Never really made sense to me.

Yeah, and that's always bugged me.
but that's a pretty rare instance, you don't get a lot of folks doing that; and those who do, do it deliberately. But when you open up the entire world for that sort of thing you're going to get people who do it inadvertently. Those people are the ones who will then complain that the story makes no sense.

It's one thing to bypass the story intentionally for reasons of expediency; it's another thing to make it so easy that people will do it by accident.

Yeah exactly. With everything being the same level, the prospects for doing the "Elder Scrolls thing" and running in a particular direction until you find something to do will likely cause a lot more people to unintentionally end up in a story inconsistency.

Llevndryn

Are you going to open up the zones which become locked after certain quests with One Tamriel, like we ask here ?

maboleth

When I first bought ESO and started playing, I thought I could go anywhere and everywhere. Then I learned about factions, races, zones and Cadwell quests. I was totally ok with that, but this news will make everything accessible, like in Skyrim or Oblivion. A freedom to explore!

I also expected every NPC to be leveled and scaled to the player - again a feature I missed from previous ES games. They did address this in solo/dlc's but it's GREAT news that ALL Tamriel will be scaled! Finally, a missed quests with trivial enemies and no loot will be leveled up to the player and be challenging!

Great times indeed!

ShedsHisTail

Enodoc wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Faulgor wrote: »

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

My only real beef with this is story continuity.
Please just make sure that the story quests are given prerequisite quests that need to be completed first.

You'd think that would make sense, but that isn't the case right now, either. I can skip all quests until the last zone, say Bangkorai, do the questchain there and get acces to Coldharbour, without even touching the quests in the other zones. Never really made sense to me.

Yeah, and that's always bugged me.
but that's a pretty rare instance, you don't get a lot of folks doing that; and those who do, do it deliberately. But when you open up the entire world for that sort of thing you're going to get people who do it inadvertently. Those people are the ones who will then complain that the story makes no sense.

It's one thing to bypass the story intentionally for reasons of expediency; it's another thing to make it so easy that people will do it by accident.

Yeah exactly. With everything being the same level, the prospects for doing the "Elder Scrolls thing" and running in a particular direction until you find something to do will likely cause a lot more people to unintentionally end up in a story inconsistency.

Right, which is why story quests should be tied to other pre-requisite story quests.
So they just don't show up if you haven't completed the necessary context.

fata13xception_ESO

Yes!!! Tamriel-wide level scaling has been one of the main things I've desired since Alpha, one of the things I was very disappointed was not implemented since launch. The continent of Tamriel is a world... earlier zones should not be trivial, should not become obsolete as the player moves through them. This is a fantastic step toward making the whole of Tamriel a relevant world- one we will revisit as new content releases.

maboleth

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

My only real beef with this is story continuity.
Please just make sure that the story quests are given prerequisite quests that need to be completed first.

Like, I don't see any problem with skipping Stonefalls entirely and goin right into Deeshan or the Eastmarch; but set it up in such a fashion that only the side-quests are available in these later zones unless you've completed the main story quests from the earlier zones. Otherwise you end up with continuity issues where you're doing the story all out of order.

I know it was said on the panel that you can "RP this however you want" but things like story continuity aren't really things that can be RPed away and, even as much a folks tend to shrug it off, story is a big part of these games; and if the story is nonsense the game will be significantly less engaging.

That said, do the same thing with cross-faction adventuring. If I'm playing as a Pact character and decide to head to Auridon, don't let me just pick the main story quest and start working for the Queen. I choose the Ebonheart pact as my main allegiance, allow tht to still be significant outside of PvP. Sure, let me do all the side quests and world bosses and anchors and whatever in Auridon as much as I want; but leave the main story of opposing factions off limits until I unlock them through Cadwell.

In short; I think this is a great addition, but make efforts to keep the story in tact, please.

As much as I'm excited for One Tamriel, this is so true! @ZOS_JessicaFolsom be sure to take notes about this for all that care for ES story & content.

Enodoc

Llevndryn wrote: »

Are you going to open up the zones which become locked after certain quests with One Tamriel, like we ask here ?

@Llevndryn Do you have any specific examples? Most of these places become inaccessible because the story has destroyed them, so being able to get back into them anyway would be inconsistent. You can't enter a destroyed location.

ShedsHisTail

You know, I think the easiest way to open these zones up -and- keep the story in tact would be to make it so you can go to whatever zone you want an "adventure" there, hitting anchors and world bosses, and delves, and such; but just not have the quests, any quests, available unless you're of the appropriate faction.

I'm not saying I support that approach, but that's certainly the -easiest- way to open everything up without demolishing the story.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom , I think that's the number one question which has gone unanswered about this whole thing. I think most folks are in support of the idea, but can you give us at least a little hint as to how the story is going to be handled here? Honestly, that little mention of Cadwells quest line, did more to obscure than it did to illuminate what it is we should expect from this.

stypsyb14_ESO

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

Why nerf everything ZOS ? At least u can do it like RIFT online. Or like a mentoring system.

I read through the 8 pages of comments and still do not fully understand the battle-leveling announcement. It suggests content will be level-appropriate. Does this mean every zone a CP160+ character goes to will be CP160?(nodes, mobs, etc.)? or will players be down scaled to the zone appropriate?

RIFT, SWTOR, and GW2 do just this .. scale a player to the zone.

If every zone is scaled up to you then that means CP160+ characters will never be able to harvest or gather (wood, ore, cloth) for lower tiers.

Anyone have further insight?

Arato

Enodoc wrote: »

Arato wrote: »

Another question @ZOS_JessicaFolsom .. how is xp going to be dealt with for people who are over the level of the quests now that the zones won't be for veterans anymore. Will the quests for level 50 characters still be considered level 50?

If they're not level 50 and are their original non veteran levels, they will give veterans really awful xp. Currently doing the silver/gold content will give you at least 100 champion levels of xp. That could be gone.

@Arato I'm assuming quests will be changed to work like the Guild quests and Main quests. Those always give XP that is appropriate to your level.

Well currently the DLC zones are level 50 quests, and characters are just scaled up and xp rewards scaled down for lower characters... But these will be quests that are like, level 6.

Autolycus

I have some mixed feelings on the topic. One good thing I see coming out of this, though it is possible I'm extrapolating, is being able to travel to another player in a city which I wish to visit who is in another faction. It's long been an issue - We've always had to travel to someone in our same faction. At least, now I can highlight one of my AD guildmates as a DC or EP toon and travel to them. Good QOL improvement imho.

tinythinker

On the optimistic side I'm hoping that One Tamriel will inspire the devs to polish/complete/expand the base game and increase the purchase/replay/subscription value of ESO. I prefer to not think of the pessimistic side...

ShedsHisTail

stypsyb14_ESO wrote: »

frateanu.luiseb17_ESO wrote: »

Why nerf everything ZOS ? At least u can do it like RIFT online. Or like a mentoring system.

I read through the 8 pages of comments and still do not fully understand the battle-leveling announcement. It suggests content will be level-appropriate. Does this mean every zone a CP160+ character goes to will be CP160?(nodes, mobs, etc.)? or will players be down scaled to the zone appropriate?

RIFT, SWTOR, and GW2 do just this .. scale a player to the zone.

If every zone is scaled up to you then that means CP160+ characters will never be able to harvest or gather (wood, ore, cloth) for lower tiers.

Anyone have further insight?

Yeah, I like the way GW2 handles it.
Players are scaled down to the zone (rather than the zone scaled up to the player) -and- zones still have a minimum level. You can go there at any level, but you're likely to get your ass handed to you if you're too low.

RagnarFirehawk

Not sure if have said this yet but one thing has got me thinking...

"higher level players will be the same “level" as lower level players" <~~~ So that means no matter what zone i go to my Max lvl Characters will be there for decreased in level to match them

or dose Battle leveling make them " Maxed " as well the contradiction with the line.
" Characters will have their level scaled the same way that we currently scale players to the level of DLC zones "

Dam, what a Paradox

Elsonso

ShedsHisTail wrote: »

Yeah, I like the way GW2 handles it.
Players are scaled down to the zone (rather than the zone scaled up to the player) -and- zones still have a minimum level. You can go there at any level, but you're likely to get your ass handed to you if you're too low.

Yeah, I would rather have a differentiated world where the zones are special and the player is scaled to the zone, than what I am sure ZOS will do (because it is cheaper) and make all the zones the same and scale the player to max.