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Official Discussion Thread for "Matt Firor's Message from BE3"

  • stypsyb14_ESO
    stypsyb14_ESO
    ✭✭
    Docmandu wrote: »
    Am a bit confused... when I read the announcement, I assumed they were removing level 1-50, like they removed Veteran Ranks, but the announcement doesn't actually say that.

    ...
    • "Characters will have their level scaled the same way that we currently scale players to the level of DLC zones."
    • "In general, higher level players will be the same 'level' as lower level players, but they will have far more tools in their arsenal: better gear, more abilities, and of course more Champion points."
    So leveling is there to unlock skills (active and passive) as well as better gear and raised attributes. You will still be more powerful at level 40 than a level 10 because of these things, but probably not as much as you are now. The distinction will really take off at level 50 by earning Champion Points.

    This is how SWTOR and GW2 handle scaling. This is a great feature! A few examples to explain why:
    1. You are level CP 160+ and you want to revisit Deshaan to complete all the side quests. With OneTamriel, you will scale down to Deshaan's level range 1-10 and be able to earn xp and receive drops (appropriate for your CP160 level) when you kill mobs. You have available to you all your learned skill lines but their damage output is greatly reduced to be level appropriate.
    2. Your friend just started playing and at level 12, wants to join you in your gold zones (CP160). Your friend scales up to CP160 with only their learned skill lines, and helps you quest / kill / explore with scaled up damage / health / magika pools.
    3. You and your friend want to explore and quest in a completely different zone (silver zones). You party up and enter the zone where you scale down to CP 80 and your friend scales up to CP 80. you both have a blast! log off thinking man I can't wait till tomorrow to play ESO again!!!

    I type this with hope and optimism.
  • Arato
    Arato
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Sir, please, you obviously are not a fan of RPG's. This game purported to be an RPG. I put a lot of money into this game, expecting it to behave like an RPG. RPG's involve starting off weak, and building up a progressively stronger character. Progressing in this way, gives the player a goal to work towards and satisfaction in reaping the rewards. People like yourself want to take this away from myself and other RPG-lovers.

    You say "skill line levels" well... what does 400 skills help me if I have only 2 bars of 5 (6 with ult) skills each that I can use at a time?
    ...and why bother to bust your gut finding the ultra scarce and expensive resources for CP160 gear, when the brand-new player with his level 3 gear scales to the same level anyway, just for much, much cheaper?

    Please, please, ZOS - make a new action-kiddie game for people who prefer action games with instant rewards, and leave this an RPG for those who have invested a lot of time and money into what they thought was an RPG because it was marketed as an RPG.

    Oh, Bethesda, the makers of Morrowind and Daggerfall must be crying into their pillows at night to see what you have done to a once-great franchise.

    If they do this, I want my money back. What is being proposed here, is not the game i signed up for :(

    ...and I DO have friends in the game, btw, and I CAN ALREADY go and play with a friend's level 1 toon with my VR16 toon, I don't see what prevents the vet toon to enter and play in the starter areas - in fact, as we speak there are vet characters farming the starter areas and robbing the newbies of precious resources; don't ask me why they cannot stick to their own areas instead.

    I was planning to buy this game for my cousin's birthday so that we can play it together, but I will definitely not do so anymore, and am thinking seriously of unsubbing.

    All of those progression systems I mentioned are RPG mechanics.

    XP based leveling systems are only ONE way of establishing a separation between character skill and player skill, just like numeric stats or character skills that you can advance.

    XP based character level systems are for games where you don't have individual character skills so you gain a level to signify that you improved at everything at once.

    TES has character skills that improve independently from use. Instead of getting better at using a sword by gaining xp and leveling up you get better at using a sword by using a sword.

    You have skill lines like 1h and shield, or dual wielding. As you dual wield, you get better at dual wielding, as indicated by your dual wielding skill going up from 1 to 50, in that process you unlock new skills you can put skill points into, and new passives.

    That is independent of character level. Character level doesn't even play into it.

    In single player TES games your character level doesn't mean much, the only thing it means is that the scaling changes so you start getting stronger enemies, and you get perk (in skyrim anyway) and attribute points to assign. In TESO, the level up gives you a skill point and attribute point to assign. Unfortunately it also has the themepark MMO significance of gating what gear you can wear (which would make much more sense to base on skill line rather than character level. My level VR16 Tank that had never used a bow before shouldn't be able to equip a top tier bow and gain full damage from it, it should do as low damage as a maple bow in my hands until I get my bow skill up), and also plays into damage calculations and crit calculations. It should be more like Elder Scrolls, less like world of warcraft.

    Anyway, in single player TES, the primary thing character level affects is enemy scaling. It's supposed to be based on what relative strength the game thinks you have, but it doesn't always work out.

    If you level up purely through smithing (in Skyrim) at the start of the game you'll be like level 27 or something like that .. but you'll have no combat skills or perks. You'll start fighting people that can wipe the floor with you and you'll do very little damage and get rekt by nearly every hit because you have no skill at wielding the weapons you can smith or wearing the armor you can smith.

    The more meaningful advancement and progression is leveling up those individual skill lines so you can put in perk points. Those perks and the increased damage you can do from improving your weapon skill are GAMECHANGING. While your character level? Almost meaningless.

    Before you claim Skyrim was not an RPG. same thing in Morrowind. Morrowind leveling up gave you 1-5 attribute points in 3 attributes of your choosing, but if you're level 50 and try to use a dagger with 5 skill in short blade, you will miss on almost every strike still. But you're level 50? You're supposed to be stronger! Doesn't matter. What matters is your skill level in an individual skill line. All leveling did was give you some attribute points, and change the scaling of the enemies you fought.

    Skill points, Skill level lines, skill progression, and champion points are all deeper, more meaningful, more involved progression than character levels.
    Edited by Arato on June 15, 2016 12:04AM
  • Majic
    Majic
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    All For One

    "One Tamriel" is the best news I've heard since launch, and something I've lobbied for (open world level scaling) ever since. Despite some major disappointments in the past, it's clear to me that ESO is now driven by a solid vision and has a bright future ahead of it.

    Thanks for successfully turning the Titanic around and making this beautiful-but-addled game a viable contender for my favorite game of all time. But before it knocks Guild Wars 2 off that pedestal, ZOS needs to make One Tamriel a reality -- and without screwing it all up.

    So please, do it right and make me proud. B)

    (P.S. And fix some bugs already!) :p
    Epopt Of The Everspinning Logo, Church Of The Eternal Loading Screen
    And verily, verily, spaketh the Lord: "Error <<1>>"
  • sentientomega
    sentientomega
    ✭✭✭
    Docmandu wrote: »
    Am a bit confused... when I read the announcement, I assumed they were removing level 1-50, like they removed Veteran Ranks, but the announcement doesn't actually say that.

    ...
    • "Characters will have their level scaled the same way that we currently scale players to the level of DLC zones."
    • "In general, higher level players will be the same 'level' as lower level players, but they will have far more tools in their arsenal: better gear, more abilities, and of course more Champion points."
    So leveling is there to unlock skills (active and passive) as well as better gear and raised attributes. You will still be more powerful at level 40 than a level 10 because of these things, but probably not as much as you are now. The distinction will really take off at level 50 by earning Champion Points.

    This is how SWTOR and GW2 handle scaling. This is a great feature! A few examples to explain why:
    1. You are level CP 160+ and you want to revisit Deshaan to complete all the side quests. With OneTamriel, you will scale down to Deshaan's level range 1-10 and be able to earn xp and receive drops (appropriate for your CP160 level) when you kill mobs. You have available to you all your learned skill lines but their damage output is greatly reduced to be level appropriate.
    2. Your friend just started playing and at level 12, wants to join you in your gold zones (CP160). Your friend scales up to CP160 with only their learned skill lines, and helps you quest / kill / explore with scaled up damage / health / magika pools.
    3. You and your friend want to explore and quest in a completely different zone (silver zones). You party up and enter the zone where you scale down to CP 80 and your friend scales up to CP 80. you both have a blast! log off thinking man I can't wait till tomorrow to play ESO again!!!

    I type this with hope and optimism.

    Deshaan isn't 1-10...

    Though I get your example, down-scaling is how SWTOR does it, it works really well. :)

    If ZOS implements this like that, it'll also be perfect for learning new skill lines, if you want to change, say, armour type or class skills and/or weapon skills.
    Edited by sentientomega on June 15, 2016 3:15AM
  • Ipslor
    Ipslor
    ✭✭✭
    Okay so the worst thing happened in SWTOR - Level Sync - comes to ESO.
    Next will be Packs in crownstore.
    Edited by Ipslor on June 15, 2016 8:55AM
  • MasterSpatula
    MasterSpatula
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ipslor wrote: »
    Okay so the worst thing happened in SWTOR - Level Sync - comes to ESO.

    Exactly. I gave it several months to try it out, but scaling is absolutely why I quit SWTOR--in disgust.

    But it's not just SWTOR they should be learning from. Scaling was the single greatest flaw in Oblivion. I have no idea why ZOS wants to adopt Bethesda's greatest failure.

    Meaningful leveling and progression is 100% non-negotiable to me. I will not play a game that is fully scaled. I simply will not.

    Man, I haven't even been back that long. I really do love this game, and this is months off, but I can't even find enthusiasm for it the last couple of days. This announcement is just depressing.
    Edited by MasterSpatula on June 15, 2016 9:13AM
    "A probable impossibility is preferable to an improbable possibility." - Aristotle
  • TheTraveler
    TheTraveler
    ✭✭✭
    Arato wrote: »
    Sir, please, you obviously are not a fan of RPG's. This game purported to be an RPG. I put a lot of money into this game, expecting it to behave like an RPG. RPG's involve starting off weak, and building up a progressively stronger character. Progressing in this way, gives the player a goal to work towards and satisfaction in reaping the rewards. People like yourself want to take this away from myself and other RPG-lovers.

    You say "skill line levels" well... what does 400 skills help me if I have only 2 bars of 5 (6 with ult) skills each that I can use at a time?
    ...and why bother to bust your gut finding the ultra scarce and expensive resources for CP160 gear, when the brand-new player with his level 3 gear scales to the same level anyway, just for much, much cheaper?

    Please, please, ZOS - make a new action-kiddie game for people who prefer action games with instant rewards, and leave this an RPG for those who have invested a lot of time and money into what they thought was an RPG because it was marketed as an RPG.

    Oh, Bethesda, the makers of Morrowind and Daggerfall must be crying into their pillows at night to see what you have done to a once-great franchise.

    If they do this, I want my money back. What is being proposed here, is not the game i signed up for :(

    ...and I DO have friends in the game, btw, and I CAN ALREADY go and play with a friend's level 1 toon with my VR16 toon, I don't see what prevents the vet toon to enter and play in the starter areas - in fact, as we speak there are vet characters farming the starter areas and robbing the newbies of precious resources; don't ask me why they cannot stick to their own areas instead.

    I was planning to buy this game for my cousin's birthday so that we can play it together, but I will definitely not do so anymore, and am thinking seriously of unsubbing.

    All of those progression systems I mentioned are RPG mechanics.

    XP based leveling systems are only ONE way of establishing a separation between character skill and player skill, just like numeric stats or character skills that you can advance.

    XP based character level systems are for games where you don't have individual character skills so you gain a level to signify that you improved at everything at once.

    TES has character skills that improve independently from use. Instead of getting better at using a sword by gaining xp and leveling up you get better at using a sword by using a sword.

    You have skill lines like 1h and shield, or dual wielding. As you dual wield, you get better at dual wielding, as indicated by your dual wielding skill going up from 1 to 50, in that process you unlock new skills you can put skill points into, and new passives.

    That is independent of character level. Character level doesn't even play into it.

    In single player TES games your character level doesn't mean much, the only thing it means is that the scaling changes so you start getting stronger enemies, and you get perk (in skyrim anyway) and attribute points to assign. In TESO, the level up gives you a skill point and attribute point to assign. Unfortunately it also has the themepark MMO significance of gating what gear you can wear (which would make much more sense to base on skill line rather than character level. My level VR16 Tank that had never used a bow before shouldn't be able to equip a top tier bow and gain full damage from it, it should do as low damage as a maple bow in my hands until I get my bow skill up), and also plays into damage calculations and crit calculations. It should be more like Elder Scrolls, less like world of warcraft.

    Anyway, in single player TES, the primary thing character level affects is enemy scaling. It's supposed to be based on what relative strength the game thinks you have, but it doesn't always work out.

    If you level up purely through smithing (in Skyrim) at the start of the game you'll be like level 27 or something like that .. but you'll have no combat skills or perks. You'll start fighting people that can wipe the floor with you and you'll do very little damage and get rekt by nearly every hit because you have no skill at wielding the weapons you can smith or wearing the armor you can smith.

    The more meaningful advancement and progression is leveling up those individual skill lines so you can put in perk points. Those perks and the increased damage you can do from improving your weapon skill are GAMECHANGING. While your character level? Almost meaningless.

    Before you claim Skyrim was not an RPG. same thing in Morrowind. Morrowind leveling up gave you 1-5 attribute points in 3 attributes of your choosing, but if you're level 50 and try to use a dagger with 5 skill in short blade, you will miss on almost every strike still. But you're level 50? You're supposed to be stronger! Doesn't matter. What matters is your skill level in an individual skill line. All leveling did was give you some attribute points, and change the scaling of the enemies you fought.

    Skill points, Skill level lines, skill progression, and champion points are all deeper, more meaningful, more involved progression than character levels.

    Leveling up in all games that call themselves RPG's would give you a chance to allocate points to basic ATTRIBUTES (like health, magica, stamina, charisma, agility) as opposed to SKILLS (like 2-handed, destro staff, stormcalling etc.) The SP TES games always had a leveling up of attributes, and in ESO, things like weapon damage and spell damage, scaled off things like stamina and magica. Remove levels, and you may as well remove stam, mag and health (which the proposed changes will effectively do in any case) , and limit an already choice-limited game even more. Thanks for wanting to limit our choices and our feeling of progression to that of a basic shooter. Why don't we all just go and play COD instead.... :(
  • LadyLokari
    LadyLokari
    ✭✭
    I'm not going to get into all the debate on whether this is a good idea or not, but I am going to say that I am really excited to see this happen. One of my friends and I have often talked about doing some roleplay between my Khajiit and his Breton, but since he's Covenant and I'm Dominion, it obviously couldn't happen in game.

    We RP'd a bit in Skype, but its really not the same. So now I am eagerly awaiting this to be made a reality. Thank you so much for the One Tamriel idea.
  • Elsonso
    Elsonso
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Ipslor wrote: »
    Okay so the worst thing happened in SWTOR - Level Sync - comes to ESO.

    But it's not just SWTOR they should be learning from. Scaling was the single greatest flaw in Oblivion. I have no idea why ZOS wants to adopt Bethesda's greatest failure.

    Meaningful leveling and progression is 100% non-negotiable to me. I will not play a game that is fully scaled. I simply will not.

    Oblivion was the game best played with no sleep. You could beat the game at low level, if you wanted, and play for days at level 5 (for example), as long as you never slept. It bypassed the leveled list, which is what kept the monsters at your level.

    But, unless you employ some manner of scaling, you cannot have new characters and end game characters interacting in the same world space,
    2022: Qu'ils mangent de la brioche
    • "Tamriel One was fun and engaging, Tamriel Once .... not so much." - Jaraal, March 9, 2022
    • "Stop treating the combat in this game as some sort of lab experiment." - code65536, July 18, 2022
    • PSA: If anyone finds the Update 35 Q&A, please return it to the community staff. Thank you.
    ><)))*>
  • TheTraveler
    TheTraveler
    ✭✭✭
    Since I've been one of the whingers, to make it clear, it's the level scaling idea that I hate, (and worse, the suggestion by some that levels be removed altogether) - I am not against the mixing of factions, though it might be a bit disorienting to going from fighting those nasty Dunmer slavers with your Breton DC toon, to hop over into Stonefalls to help your Dunmer friend beat those beastly Breton invaders from Daggerfall. O_o :D

    But I admit that at the start of the game I was hoping that once I'd finished the MQ, that I'd be able to mix freely with the players in other factions. (Outside of Cyrodiil, of course)
  • lucky_Sage
    lucky_Sage
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    I hope there just saving the good news for quakecon about dlc not something that doesn't affect late game only when your helping a friends
    the thing that got me the most excited about this game got pushed back was spellcrafting and they canceled they canceled the pvp part of the crime system for being to hard and spell crafting will be harder than that
    DC PC NA
    Magdk - main
    Stamcro - alt

    AD PS4 NA -retired (PC runs way better to play on console)
    magdk
    magblade
    stamplar
    magden
    magsorc

  • Zardayne
    Zardayne
    ✭✭✭✭✭

    code65536 wrote: »
    Gotta love PR. "I just got off the stage at Bethesda's E3 Showcase" even though the article was written well in advance (and this forum post, too--anyone else notice, from the date and the thread ID, that this was created days ago and was merely hidden until now?).

    Anyway, my first concern is that the reason people don't group up isn't because of level/faction restrictions. It's because there is no reason to group up, unless you're doing the 4-man dungeons or 12-man trials. Everything is so ridiculously easy that even a barely competent player will breeze through zone content solo with ease. What exactly would be the point of grouping up? They need to revamp the difficulty and give people an incentive to group up.

    Second, I'd be very, very concerned about performance. Places like Wayrest, Mournhold, or Rawl during prime time are very crowded for DC, EP, and AD players respectively, and there's a very noticeable impact on performance (e.g., lags in bar swapping that I wouldn't notice elsewhere). Now instead of there being three separate Rawls that people funnel into, there will be just one.

    Third, I liked that the silver and gold zones were relatively quiet. If I wanted to farm mats, explore, etc., I prefer doing it in an empty zone, not one that's been trampled all over by other people.

    Code's second paragraph has been my thoughts on ESO since day one and has only grow worse with CPs. As much as I'm addictive to MMOs and really enjoy Tamriel, after 2 years I can only make myself play a few hours a week now (vs 20-25 hrs a week in the beginning) because I truly get bored due to how easy it has become. In the earlier days the only time a few friends of mine would join up was when we were completing all of the zone bosses. Now, I actively hunt the ones I missed and drop them myself for a challenge. That's just wrong..A co worker of mine just returned to ESo last week due to boredom and made a new character. He came into my office this morning and said man back in the day Falchou ( WW quest boss DC side) kicked my butt a few times. He said last night I destroyed him. I asked, did you use what CP points you had earned previously before you quit and he laughed and said yep..That just tells me they need to scale this games difficulty to all these CP points nowadays.

    The main place I find that ramps up the difficulty is in Cyrodiil and a lot of the time that's due to people spamming OP broken abilities.
  • ForfiniteStories
    ForfiniteStories
    ✭✭✭
    Preyfar wrote: »
    I'm hoping they just add in additional faction-specific quests in other areas to still make a player's chosen faction have SOME sort of meaning other than PVP.

    This. So much this.
  • Arato
    Arato
    ✭✭✭✭✭
    Arato wrote: »
    Sir, please, you obviously are not a fan of RPG's. This game purported to be an RPG. I put a lot of money into this game, expecting it to behave like an RPG. RPG's involve starting off weak, and building up a progressively stronger character. Progressing in this way, gives the player a goal to work towards and satisfaction in reaping the rewards. People like yourself want to take this away from myself and other RPG-lovers.

    You say "skill line levels" well... what does 400 skills help me if I have only 2 bars of 5 (6 with ult) skills each that I can use at a time?
    ...and why bother to bust your gut finding the ultra scarce and expensive resources for CP160 gear, when the brand-new player with his level 3 gear scales to the same level anyway, just for much, much cheaper?

    Please, please, ZOS - make a new action-kiddie game for people who prefer action games with instant rewards, and leave this an RPG for those who have invested a lot of time and money into what they thought was an RPG because it was marketed as an RPG.

    Oh, Bethesda, the makers of Morrowind and Daggerfall must be crying into their pillows at night to see what you have done to a once-great franchise.

    If they do this, I want my money back. What is being proposed here, is not the game i signed up for :(

    ...and I DO have friends in the game, btw, and I CAN ALREADY go and play with a friend's level 1 toon with my VR16 toon, I don't see what prevents the vet toon to enter and play in the starter areas - in fact, as we speak there are vet characters farming the starter areas and robbing the newbies of precious resources; don't ask me why they cannot stick to their own areas instead.

    I was planning to buy this game for my cousin's birthday so that we can play it together, but I will definitely not do so anymore, and am thinking seriously of unsubbing.

    All of those progression systems I mentioned are RPG mechanics.

    XP based leveling systems are only ONE way of establishing a separation between character skill and player skill, just like numeric stats or character skills that you can advance.

    XP based character level systems are for games where you don't have individual character skills so you gain a level to signify that you improved at everything at once.

    TES has character skills that improve independently from use. Instead of getting better at using a sword by gaining xp and leveling up you get better at using a sword by using a sword.

    You have skill lines like 1h and shield, or dual wielding. As you dual wield, you get better at dual wielding, as indicated by your dual wielding skill going up from 1 to 50, in that process you unlock new skills you can put skill points into, and new passives.

    That is independent of character level. Character level doesn't even play into it.

    In single player TES games your character level doesn't mean much, the only thing it means is that the scaling changes so you start getting stronger enemies, and you get perk (in skyrim anyway) and attribute points to assign. In TESO, the level up gives you a skill point and attribute point to assign. Unfortunately it also has the themepark MMO significance of gating what gear you can wear (which would make much more sense to base on skill line rather than character level. My level VR16 Tank that had never used a bow before shouldn't be able to equip a top tier bow and gain full damage from it, it should do as low damage as a maple bow in my hands until I get my bow skill up), and also plays into damage calculations and crit calculations. It should be more like Elder Scrolls, less like world of warcraft.

    Anyway, in single player TES, the primary thing character level affects is enemy scaling. It's supposed to be based on what relative strength the game thinks you have, but it doesn't always work out.

    If you level up purely through smithing (in Skyrim) at the start of the game you'll be like level 27 or something like that .. but you'll have no combat skills or perks. You'll start fighting people that can wipe the floor with you and you'll do very little damage and get rekt by nearly every hit because you have no skill at wielding the weapons you can smith or wearing the armor you can smith.

    The more meaningful advancement and progression is leveling up those individual skill lines so you can put in perk points. Those perks and the increased damage you can do from improving your weapon skill are GAMECHANGING. While your character level? Almost meaningless.

    Before you claim Skyrim was not an RPG. same thing in Morrowind. Morrowind leveling up gave you 1-5 attribute points in 3 attributes of your choosing, but if you're level 50 and try to use a dagger with 5 skill in short blade, you will miss on almost every strike still. But you're level 50? You're supposed to be stronger! Doesn't matter. What matters is your skill level in an individual skill line. All leveling did was give you some attribute points, and change the scaling of the enemies you fought.

    Skill points, Skill level lines, skill progression, and champion points are all deeper, more meaningful, more involved progression than character levels.

    Leveling up in all games that call themselves RPG's would give you a chance to allocate points to basic ATTRIBUTES (like health, magica, stamina, charisma, agility) as opposed to SKILLS (like 2-handed, destro staff, stormcalling etc.) The SP TES games always had a leveling up of attributes, and in ESO, things like weapon damage and spell damage, scaled off things like stamina and magica. Remove levels, and you may as well remove stam, mag and health (which the proposed changes will effectively do in any case) , and limit an already choice-limited game even more. Thanks for wanting to limit our choices and our feeling of progression to that of a basic shooter. Why don't we all just go and play COD instead.... :(

    There's plenty of RPG's without attributes (Skyrim is one, Deus Ex another), and I think Deus Ex doesn't have levels either, you just gain Praxis points to advance your skills after gaining so much xp.

    There's lots of different progression systems in RPG's. The key thing of making a game an RPG is a separation between player skill and character skill. In a pure action game, your success in the game is 100% dependent on your skill as a player.

    In an RPG, part of your success is dependent on character skill rather than player skill.

    Lots of ways to do that. You can remove all semblance of player skill except decision making by abstracting combat (making it turn based, utilizing dice rolls, character attributes/level, or you can have some more player skill contribution by having real time systems as Elder Scrolls does. Elder scrolls makes player skill determine whether or not your attack lands, but character skill determines for how much.
  • HELLB0UNDH0UND
    Acrolas wrote: »
    "One Tamriel will not affect the PvP systems in Cyrodiil."

    Of course it does. This makes PVP obsolete because you're now allowed to play all three sides at your whim. You're not a champion anymore. You're a tourist.

    Welcome to Disneynirn.

    lol wait what? No, it doesn't obsolete PVP. I can play all three sides now just the same. They aren't removing the alliances. They're removing the alliance restrictions. I can create a character on each alliance now, and I'll be able to create a character on each alliance after One Tamriel. Why are you so upset?
    Max CP, 11 explicitly average characters on XB1 NA


  • BigBressler
    BigBressler
    ✭✭
    Alliances will not have their own "instances"
    You won't need to beat the story in order to gain access to the other alliances
    You will be able to play with all alliances
    There won't be set levels per alliance for each area
    Riften will be the same (most likely Level 50 CP 160) for all alliances, and you'll be battle-levelled to that[/quote]

    @Enodoc Oh really? I must've missed that then. So you're saying that I can PvE with a Dominion friend now outside of Dungeons?
    Main: Ioannes Jun Bressler - CP 560+ - Imperial Templar Tank
  • RocDonald
    RocDonald
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    They should have started with this lol. But better late than never :)
  • ShedsHisTail
    ShedsHisTail
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    Someone clarify for me how "level-scaling" is going to ruin this game?

    The way I look at it, as it is now, it's basically scaled already. The zones you are intended to be playing in are already designed to be of a level comparable to your character. As you advance in levels, so too do the areas increase in level and difficulty. So, in effect, you're already playing a game which is scaled to your level, you're movements are simply constrained by a level-barrier; some things are just too hard to overcome at low levels.

    The only effect I see this having is that people will no longer be able to travel to zones which are higher level than they are and take on enemies more challenging than is intended by design for marginally more experience. But that still doesn't change the fact that enemy encounters in the Rift will be noticeably more difficult than enemy encounters in Stonefalls.

    When you are of low level, you have a limited set of skills to draw upon, and encounters are designed for you to be able to conquer them with those limited skills; typically in sets of one or two mobs at a time who do little more than light and heavy attack or an occasional direct damage spell. Later on in the game, in the zones formerly of the 45-50 level range, you're encountering enemies in packs of three or four, who have an array of skills at their disposal.

    That's not going to change, and at level 4, that pack of four guys throwing spells and DoTs at you is going to be significantly more challenging when you've only got two low-level skills, a few points scattered between attributes, and crap gear at your disposal to fight them with; even if they, too, are merely level 4.

    The point is, there is more to be taken into consideration than just the raw levels of the enemies in any given zone. One Tamriel removes the level-barriers, but the mechanical challenge is still there.
    Edited by ShedsHisTail on June 15, 2016 6:37PM
    "As an online discussion of Tamrielic Lore grows longer, the probability of someone blaming a Dragon Break approaches 1." -- Sheds' Law
    Have you seen the Twin Lamps?
  • Cogo
    Cogo
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    @ZOS_MattFiror
    Greetings Mr Firor.
    I am a player who has been here since launch. Subscribed as well since I enjoy ESO tons.

    Thank you for the information of whats coming, but it seams to be heavily focused towards making everything easy?

    Are there any news for the core player base? Us who likes risk vs reward (Craglorn before nerfs)?

    For the first time since launch, I am concerned that ESO, will change towards a completely different game. Faster, quicker and everything you want you buy in a crown store?

    I let my years of mildly mad posts here speak to how much I love the game. Right now I don't see any improvements coming....only "making easier".

    For us who played and subscribed since launch, are there any "ESO" content coming, apart from barbershop and housing?
    Thanks for one of the best MMOs I have played.
    Edited by Cogo on June 15, 2016 6:41PM
    Oghur Hatemachine, Guild leader of The Nephilim - EU Megaserver
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  • Enodoc
    Enodoc
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    Enodoc wrote:
    Alliances will not have their own "instances"
    You won't need to beat the story in order to gain access to the other alliances
    You will be able to play with all alliances
    There won't be set levels per alliance for each area
    Riften will be the same (most likely Level 50 CP 160) for all alliances, and you'll be battle-levelled to that
    Oh really? I must've missed that then. So you're saying that I can PvE with a Dominion friend now outside of Dungeons?
    Indeed. Relevant points:
    • You will be able to play and group with anyone in the game at any time (outside of PvP).
    • We are dropping all PvE Alliance restrictions.
    • The player base will no longer be divided into thirds.
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  • Uller
    Uller
    Soul Shriven
    How come every time I come back to ESO you guy's give me a reason to leave again. I guess I should just take a hint and delete it permanently. It's bad enough that I have to compete with low lvl people in the DLC zones for nodes but now I have to worry about other factions. But that's just the tip of the iceberg. It seems like Zenimax only cares about new players or casual players which I hate to bring it up but that's what WoW did and look how easy that game is now. This game is already an easy faceroll as it is who would ever need a group to do none dungeon stuff and honestly how many "new players" do you guys think you bring in that actually stay. Do you think they will stay through all that lag and performance issues that are going to come with this? NO!!! They won't neither will vet players but hey who cares about the people who support your game right??? I get it you guy's want more money well here is an idea to generate more income stop doing these limited sales (mounts,pets,costumes) and start leaving things on the store permanently and stop catering to casuals!!!!! I swear video games these days just cater to little kids and mindless adults who think easy games are the greatest things on earth. Enjoy cyrodiil lag everywhere guy's!!!!

    And on a side note why haven't you changed the drop rate for leather? Killing 5 bears in wrothgar and only getting 2 rubedo leather sometimes only one or none is ridiculous.
  • Uller
    Uller
    Soul Shriven
    Lettigall wrote: »
    I kinda wished that ZOS will go towards bringing faction pride back not that they end the Three Banners War!

    I wished that from the beginning for all the races to go back to the factions they were originally in but ZOS likes to listen to the crying casuals or the elitists who don't care about the lore of the game . They don't understand that's what kept WoW players subscribed for years. I loved the rivalry between Alliance and Horde.
  • CromulentForumID
    CromulentForumID
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    Now, I get that he is not a game designer, and so I do not take his lack of understanding as to why someone would need a full range of mats with much alarm. I do expect the game designers to understand and take this into account. However, the debacle with Potency runes indicates they are not making a game with an interesting crafting economy; rather a game for solitary players who only craft for themselves. Not sure why.

    How can they account for it, though? Without the lanes of "silver" and "gold," you really can't have a third option of "zone." I guess you could keep the zones to their current non-vet materials, but then the "vet level" materials would not have a way to be collected based on zone. Since we don't have the normal, silver, gold zone segregation, I don't know how you can arrange harvesting by anything other than crafting skill or character level.

    I am not a big fan of this change at all. People collect materials to sell or craft for others. Alchemical water makes me a lot of money at guild traders. If all zones work like the current DLC zones, I won't be able to gather any of the stuff I sell without spending skill points.

  • Mythredhel
    I have played this game from beta and have loved it but it has gradually got nerfed to death , there is no challenge in any of the pve areas anymore , you can even complete the story lines with no armour or weapons needed , you can solo the public dungeons and the world bosses without any real effort and 2 man the 4 man dungeons and I'm just an average player so I hate to think what the top players must feel like , so the thread here is moot as there is no challenge left in pve story lines anyway.

    I would also like to thank matt firor for letting me know that my custom as a regular long time player with 4 vet 16 toons and 2 more at vet 7 is of no consideration to him and zos and that they are only interested in the casual players , the quote below is taken from this interview link http://www.ign.com/articles/2016/06/15/e3-2016-the-elder-scrolls-online-to-receive-new-dungeons-customisation-and-housing-dlc

    Firor explained. "You don’t see a hardcore playstyle - like playing for six months and then quitting - we don’t see that. We have a lot of players who will play for two or three weeks because they want to get through a zone and then stop. Then they come back two months later for another month, because there’s no pressure to play all of it at once.

    "Our DLC packs cater to that, because they’re smaller, bite-size chunks of story and associated quests.

    In other words they are turning eso into a game of small episodes with nothing for the hard core long time player to do in between dlc's that take a day or two to a week to complete at best and the reason they go away is because there is nothing left to do in this game.
    I hope and pray that whoever owns the rights to eso can take back control of this great franchise and give us back the games were content and longevity of play meant something
    Edited by Mythredhel on June 15, 2016 10:48PM
  • DorianDragonRaze
    DorianDragonRaze
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    all content will essentially be boosted to “max level”

    Like no more fast farming of low level mudcrabs? All mudcrabs are maxed and you're scaled to max wherever you go?
    :/
    I used to be an adventurer like you, then I got the ESO on my hard drive...
  • novafluxxb14_ESO
    Very excited about this! I can't wait to get back into ESO with my friends who are spread across factions and levels.
  • Arato
    Arato
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    BTW for those of you so stuck on levels being the only system of character progression, might I recommend Overwatch? It has xp and levels, infinite levels at that. You can gain levels forever, that means infinite progression right?

    .... except the levels are meaningless, there is no progression.

    But it has levels!

    Levels means progression right?!?!?!
  • Ipslor
    Ipslor
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    Mythredhel wrote: »
    In other words they are turning eso into a game of small episodes with nothing for the hard core long time player to do in between dlc's

    Yup exactly what SWToR is these days.
    It's obviously a MMO cancer and now ESO have it too.
    Edited by Ipslor on June 16, 2016 5:14AM
  • MagnusBlackmane
    MagnusBlackmane
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    After playing ESO for 300 hours I've joined the forum to say this...

    THIS unnecessary drama is SO AMUSING! But do go on I'll just get more of popcorn and enjoy this show driven by the loudest of the vocal few...

    P.S. I realy don't care about battle-leveling. I will just play the game I'm enjoying.
    Edited by MagnusBlackmane on June 16, 2016 8:43AM
    "You're trying too hard... do it at 80%, never 100%. Relax." - My sensei.
    --==--==--==--
    Server: EU PC
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  • k9mouse
    k9mouse
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    Why nerf everything ZOS ? At least u can do it like RIFT online. Or like a mentoring system.

    @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

    I like how RIFT does it, I can set my own level in a given zone. When I played the max level was 60 and I go to a zone that is 20. I could set my level to 30 or , 28, 10 or keep it at max level -- any level I want to -- level 1 to my char's max level.

    If I want to running around and one shot everything (and get no rewards for doing that) I could. If I want play at the zone's max level (in my example it will be level 20) I could. I want it to be a challenge, I can set myself way below the zone's max like level 5 or 10. I would love to see a like system in ESO.
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