Statement about cheating prevention is missing

InvitationNotFound

As the title states. I haven't seen anything official since it has been announced by @ZOS_JessicaFolsom

quotes from the 31 May 2016:

ZOS_JessicaFolsom wrote: »

Just a quick update for everyone regarding the recent influx of those using third party tools to cheat in ESO. We've adjusted our automatic anti-cheat systems to focus specifically on the cheats we've seen in the last few days, in addition to launching investigations on specific players. We've permanently banned 43 players in the last 24 hours who were found to be cheating. We don't take cheating lightly, and will continue to ban those who are found to be cheating. We'll be going back through game logs to identify players who were violating our anti-cheating policies in the hours before we performed the automatic cheat detection adjustment.

In addition, we're working on a number of fixes and improvements to prevent this kind of behavior from happening in ESO in the future. We'll provide more specific details about this tomorrow.

We want to thank everyone who has helped us identify those who would ruin your game experience by cheating, and the means by which they were doing so.

did i miss that post? in the thread where she posted the above statement isn't anything about their improvements and how they want to prevent cheating in the future.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom please provide more details as you promised.

@ Community: If i was simply blind and haven't seen the thread please provide a link here. thanks.

r.jan_emailb16_ESO

I haven't seen it either, but I have seen people cheating and still being around in the game. Others apparently have had their bans lifted. So... I guess every day without an official statement is a statement on it's own, right?

Just for comparison: pcgamesn.com/overwatch/blizzard-banning-cheaters and pcgamer.com/overwatch-cheaters-are-having-a-hard-time/

ИВАН_ВОДКА

very bad job, ZOS
silence - its how you respect the community

NewBlacksmurf

Cmon. They can't resolve development of their own without reintroducing problems that were prior fixes so cheating in and of itself which the cause is lack of design insight........prob best that they don't comment until they can actually hold true cause I've seen a lot of cheating since day 1.

Ppl just call them bugs

-bank exploits
-ultimate exploits using multiples at a time
-nose looting
-AP gains by opposing alliance friends letting each other kill the other in Cyrodil over n over


More that I didn't list

daemonios

I checked the Dev Tracker. Nothing there either.

ИВАН_ВОДКА

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

-AP gains by opposing alliance friends letting each other kill the other in Cyrodil over n over

@NewBlacksmurf its not a cheat
wear off your tinfoil or what you have there

its called "переливы" dunno how it will be on english
and its normal in pvp, and no need to fix/ban people who usng it
its a part of their gamelay and they choose to play like this

tal many times

stevepdodson_ESO888

Ppl just call them bugs

-nose looting


More that I didn't list[/quote]

I have a terrible cold at the moment and my nose is blocked and full of snot...please will you send someone to loot my nose for me and clear it out

NewBlacksmurf

ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

-AP gains by opposing alliance friends letting each other kill the other in Cyrodil over n over

@NewBlacksmurf its not a cheat
wear off your tinfoil or what you have there

its called "переливы" dunno how it will be on english
and its normal in pvp, and no need to fix/ban people who usng it
its a part of their gamelay and they choose to play like this

tal many times

I'd say it's cheating because you're exploiting the system to gain currency

yumyum

ZOS have done the right thing by not posting what it is doing

When it comes to anti cheat giving out any information in what you are doing is a very bad thing to do, all you are doing is giving a heads up to the players which are using the cheats, in fact it breaks rule number 3.

All ZoS should say is we are looking in to it.

NewBlacksmurf

yumyum wrote: »

ZOS have done the right thing by not posting what it is doing

When it comes to anti cheat giving out any information in what you are doing is a very bad thing to do, all you are doing is giving a heads up to the players which are using the cheats, in fact it breaks rule number 3.

All ZoS should say is we are looking in to it.

@yumyum
I don't think ppl want to know exactly what they're doing in the system but they are talking about IF you cheat then what is ZOS going to do. The stance communication on cheaters and future discipline

daemonios

yumyum wrote: »

ZOS have done the right thing by not posting what it is doing

When it comes to anti cheat giving out any information in what you are doing is a very bad thing to do, all you are doing is giving a heads up to the players which are using the cheats, in fact it breaks rule number 3.

All ZoS should say is we are looking in to it.

That is called security by obscurity and it's often the worst possible policy.

yumyum

@daemonios
Not when it comes to anti cheat, giving out any information of any type when it comes to cheating is a very bad thing to do, yes giving out information that you are banning players for cheating, yes give out information that you are looking into it. Anything more then that is a very bad thing to do.

InvitationNotFound

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cmon. They can't resolve development of their own without reintroducing problems that were prior fixes so cheating in and of itself which the cause is lack of design insight........prob best that they don't comment until they can actually hold true cause I've seen a lot of cheating since day 1.

Ppl just call them bugs

-bank exploits
-ultimate exploits using multiples at a time
-nose looting
-AP gains by opposing alliance friends letting each other kill the other in Cyrodil over n over


More that I didn't list

exploiting = abusing in game mechanics (bugs)
cheating = third party software to bypass valid game mechanics

at least that's how i actually define those things in the current context. they are different things.

and what the hell is "nose looting"?

yumyum wrote: »

ZOS have done the right thing by not posting what it is doing

When it comes to anti cheat giving out any information in what you are doing is a very bad thing to do, all you are doing is giving a heads up to the players which are using the cheats, in fact it breaks rule number 3.

All ZoS should say is we are looking in to it.

depends. I don't want to know the exact algorithm. I want to know how they proceed with this.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom made the statement i quoted. not making any further statements about this is just weak communications.

And here's why you, as a player should be interested in this:
It has been said, that people were cheating (using a third party application to gain an advantage) for a long time. read the following thread in case you haven't:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking/p1

the ulti spam wasn't the main issue at all. it is obvious. everyone knows they were cheating. it's simple.
how about adjusting your values a little bit? a bit faster in casting skills? and so forth. very hard to detect.

so how's ZOS going to deal with this? did they only ban the obvious cheaters?

and that's what the community wants to know. because it is a big issue.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom we are all still waiting. where are the more specific details? or is it tomorrow for ever?

edit: without a statement, which of course makes sense and is working as intended (...^^), you have to assume people are still cheating. so did they guy you just fought cheat or was it legit? this situation isn't good for a game. neither is ZOS communication.

Arvs

So you say you've banned 43 people (rumor has it many of which have been unbanned), but that's it? No follow up statement, no details, nothing on your plans to fix the situation at hand or how you're going to keep it from happening in the future? Come on ZOS, very disappointing. Give us something.

Azurya

NO cheating prevention, NO cheating policy, no anything

all as usual

NewBlacksmurf

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cmon. They can't resolve development of their own without reintroducing problems that were prior fixes so cheating in and of itself which the cause is lack of design insight........prob best that they don't comment until they can actually hold true cause I've seen a lot of cheating since day 1.

Ppl just call them bugs

-bank exploits
-ultimate exploits using multiples at a time
-nose looting
-AP gains by opposing alliance friends letting each other kill the other in Cyrodil over n over


More that I didn't list

exploiting = abusing in game mechanics (bugs)
cheating = third party software to bypass valid game mechanics

at least that's how i actually define those things in the current context. they are different things.

and what the hell is "nose looting"?

yumyum wrote: »

ZOS have done the right thing by not posting what it is doing

When it comes to anti cheat giving out any information in what you are doing is a very bad thing to do, all you are doing is giving a heads up to the players which are using the cheats, in fact it breaks rule number 3.

All ZoS should say is we are looking in to it.

depends. I don't want to know the exact algorithm. I want to know how they proceed with this.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom made the statement i quoted. not making any further statements about this is just weak communications.

And here's why you, as a player should be interested in this:
It has been said, that people were cheating (using a third party application to gain an advantage) for a long time. read the following thread in case you haven't:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking/p1

the ulti spam wasn't the main issue at all. it is obvious. everyone knows they were cheating. it's simple.
how about adjusting your values a little bit? a bit faster in casting skills? and so forth. very hard to detect.

so how's ZOS going to deal with this? did they only ban the obvious cheaters?

and that's what the community wants to know. because it is a big issue.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom we are all still waiting. where are the more specific details? or is it tomorrow for ever?

@InvitationNotFound
Your definition of cheating is limited.
All of that is cheating

-act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game
-to use unfair or dishonest methods to gain an advantage

Third party isn't required, it's just taking advantage of something or creating an unfair situation.
Everything I listed is cheating.

So that's why the OP and others are seeking ZOS' stance along with communication specifics because there is no guideline

Junipus

They can't really give any more communication on the issue. The game was designed so that adding in proper anti-cheat mechanisms won't work. They've done their latest round of banning and will now hope everything else wrong with the game will distract us long enough so we forget about it.

I'd expect to see the same slight advantages where something seems off but you can't be sure in PvP, back again in about 2 months since cheatengine will still be able to work with the game then and forever.

InvitationNotFound

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Cmon. They can't resolve development of their own without reintroducing problems that were prior fixes so cheating in and of itself which the cause is lack of design insight........prob best that they don't comment until they can actually hold true cause I've seen a lot of cheating since day 1.

Ppl just call them bugs

-bank exploits
-ultimate exploits using multiples at a time
-nose looting
-AP gains by opposing alliance friends letting each other kill the other in Cyrodil over n over


More that I didn't list

exploiting = abusing in game mechanics (bugs)
cheating = third party software to bypass valid game mechanics

at least that's how i actually define those things in the current context. they are different things.

and what the hell is "nose looting"?

yumyum wrote: »

ZOS have done the right thing by not posting what it is doing

When it comes to anti cheat giving out any information in what you are doing is a very bad thing to do, all you are doing is giving a heads up to the players which are using the cheats, in fact it breaks rule number 3.

All ZoS should say is we are looking in to it.

depends. I don't want to know the exact algorithm. I want to know how they proceed with this.
@ZOS_JessicaFolsom made the statement i quoted. not making any further statements about this is just weak communications.

And here's why you, as a player should be interested in this:
It has been said, that people were cheating (using a third party application to gain an advantage) for a long time. read the following thread in case you haven't:
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking/p1

the ulti spam wasn't the main issue at all. it is obvious. everyone knows they were cheating. it's simple.
how about adjusting your values a little bit? a bit faster in casting skills? and so forth. very hard to detect.

so how's ZOS going to deal with this? did they only ban the obvious cheaters?

and that's what the community wants to know. because it is a big issue.

@ZOS_JessicaFolsom we are all still waiting. where are the more specific details? or is it tomorrow for ever?

@InvitationNotFound
Your definition of cheating is limited.
All of that is cheating

-act dishonestly or unfairly in order to gain an advantage, especially in a game
-to use unfair or dishonest methods to gain an advantage

Third party isn't required, it's just taking advantage of something or creating an unfair situation.
Everything I listed is cheating.

So that's why the OP and others are seeking ZOS' stance along with communication specifics because there is no guideline

well, i agree. i was more after the differentiation between game bugs and third party application.

or to cite wikipedia respectively (Cheating: gaining advantage in videogames. MIT Press. pp. 114–115. ISBN 9780262033657. cited by wikipedia)

In video games, an exploit is the use of a bug or glitches, game system, rates, hit boxes, or speed, etc. by a player to their advantage in a manner not intended by the game's designers.[1] Exploits have been classified as a form of cheating; however, the precise determination of what is or is not considered an exploit can be controversial. This debate stems from a number of factors but typically involves the argument that the issues are part of the game and require no changes or external programs to take advantage of them.

exploits are bad, bad the kind of cheating that could currently go on is even worse.

Lava_Croft

Meanwhile, Blizzard names, shames and permanently bans anyone found to be (doing something remotely related to) cheating in Overwatch...

ESO's ToS explicitly states that exploiting in-game bugs a breach of the ToS, just as much as using an external hack like Cheat Engine is.

yumyum

Let try and help out here a bit.

1st of i am a Anti Cheat Specialist i have worked and still working on some of the tops games out for the PC right now, so as a Anti Cheat Specialist i under stand what ZoS needs to do and what ZoS should post.

At the same time i do under stand how you may be feeling, but all you need to know is that ZOS is looking and working on dealing with the cheaters, and please remember you can only ban players which you are 100% sure are cheating / exploiting, there are no ifs or buts about that, any good Anti Cheat Specialist would sooner see a cheater go free then see a non cheat getting a ban.

Anti Cheat is one of the hardest jobs there is in gaming and i love what i do, nothing better then seeing the ban hammer dropping on 1000's of cheats at a time

daemonios

yumyum wrote: »

At the same time i do under stand how you may be feeling, but all you need to know is that ZOS is looking and working on dealing with the cheaters, and please remember you can only ban players which you are 100% sure are cheating / exploiting, there are no ifs or buts about that, any good Anti Cheat Specialist would sooner see a cheater go free then see a non cheat getting a ban.

Not good enough. Speed hacks/ultimate hacks were being reported for months before some videos went viral last week. People reporting said cheaters were laughed out of the forums or told to "l2p". In the mean time ZOS didn't acknowledge the cheats, didn't take disciplinary action and didn't officially take a strong stance against cheating. This all contributed to a sense of impunity and the proliferation of cheaters.

They need to do better and gain the players' trust back. This isn't only about cheats any more, it's also about ZOS' track record dealing with them.

InvitationNotFound

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

They can't really give any more communication on the issue. The game was designed so that adding in proper anti-cheat mechanisms won't work. They've done their latest round of banning and will now hope everything else wrong with the game will distract us long enough so we forget about it.

I'd expect to see the same slight advantages where something seems off but you can't be sure in PvP, back again in about 2 months since cheatengine will still be able to work with the game then and forever.

yumyum wrote: »

Let try and help out here a bit.

1st of i am a Anti Cheat Specialist i have worked and still working on some of the tops games out for the PC right now, so as a Anti Cheat Specialist i under stand what ZoS needs to do and what ZoS should post.

At the same time i do under stand how you may be feeling, but all you need to know is that ZOS is looking and working on dealing with the cheaters, and please remember you can only ban players which you are 100% sure are cheating / exploiting, there are no ifs or buts about that, any good Anti Cheat Specialist would sooner see a cheater go free then see a non cheat getting a ban.

Anti Cheat is one of the hardest jobs there is in gaming and i love what i do, nothing better then seeing the ban hammer dropping on 1000's of cheats at a time

so you're the friend of the guy who posted he knows a guy who helped ZOS? :P

and again, it's not about banning or the current ulti spammers. it's about a statement on how they want to improve and want to go on with this.

dap_robertb16_ESO wrote: »

They can't really give any more communication on the issue. The game was designed so that adding in proper anti-cheat mechanisms won't work. They've done their latest round of banning and will now hope everything else wrong with the game will distract us long enough so we forget about it.

I'd expect to see the same slight advantages where something seems off but you can't be sure in PvP, back again in about 2 months since cheatengine will still be able to work with the game then and forever.

that's exactly what i fear.

Elsonso

yumyum wrote: »

@daemonios
Not when it comes to anti cheat, giving out any information of any type when it comes to cheating is a very bad thing to do, yes giving out information that you are banning players for cheating, yes give out information that you are looking into it. Anything more then that is a very bad thing to do.

Well, right now the message is "we take cheating seriously".... but it seems the message that the cheaters are getting is "go ahead, let us know if you need to be unbanned for any reason." ZOS needs to correct that message, and "remain silent" is not as effective.

I do believe that they take cheating seriously. I just wish they took action against them as seriously. But, I expect they have gaps in detection and logging such that they don't know who is cheating and who is not cheating. They don't want to ban a single innocent person (right thing to do) which means that they leave others free to cheat. The cheaters know they are not going to get banned, or don't care anymore, and may be deliberately trying to damage the game (as referenced by another thread a few days ago). I doubt that ZOS will take legal action against that latter group, but I think they could have grounds to do so.

yumyum

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

so you're the friend of the guy who posted he knows a guy who helped ZOS? :P

Not me and don't know who that is, but ZOS are more then welcome to get hold of me.

Tavore1138

@NewBlacksmurf - you may have good intentions but you are muddying the waters.

A very specific kind of cheating ws proven to be happening, one that involved using 3rd party hacking tools and the blatant ulti spamming was merely the most obvious symptom.

After at first ignoring it ZOS said they were taking action and as per the quote ftom @ZOS_JessicaFolsom they promised an update which has not been delivered, further reducing trust in the game and those running it.

We don't need details just a clear statement that they have, or will soon have, a proper way of detecting this type of cheating and stopping it... Whereas we see people getting bans lifted and no statements from a company seemingly hoping we'll just forget that any competitive aspect of this game is currently corrupted.

They also said leader boards would be purged and that has not happened either.

The cheating (exploiting) you speak of is not great but it is based on in game errors or people simply being bad... still annoying but on a very different level.

kevlarto_ESO

If they put out how they do things, then it is easier for those who make the new cheats harder to detect, somethings we do not need to know how or what they are using, only that they are using something and doing something about them, no anti cheat is perfect just like no virus protection is perfect, main thing ZOS needs to do and I hope they do it is stay on top of the latest cheats, it sucks you have scumbags making programs like cheat engine, what do they gain from it ?

This is a tough area for any online company these days as hackers and cheater get more advanced and companies have to spend more and more resources and money to counter the hacks and cheats.
.

Nifty2g

No need to make a new thread, they will lock this just keep comments in

https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268218/zos-how-are-we-as-a-community-dealing-with-exploits-hacking/p1

NewBlacksmurf

Tavore1138 wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf - you may have good intentions but you are muddying the waters.

A very specific kind of cheating ws proven to be happening, one that involved using 3rd party hacking tools and the blatant ulti spamming was merely the most obvious symptom.

After at first ignoring it ZOS said they were taking action and as per the quote ftom @ZOS_JessicaFolsom they promised an update which has not been delivered, further reducing trust in the game and those running it.

We don't need details just a clear statement that they have, or will soon have, a proper way of detecting this type of cheating and stopping it... Whereas we see people getting bans lifted and no statements from a company seemingly hoping we'll just forget that any competitive aspect of this game is currently corrupted.

They also said leader boards would be purged and that has not happened either.

The cheating (exploiting) you speak of is not great but it is based on in game errors or people simply being bad... still annoying but on a very different level.

@Tavore1138
Its an all or none question the OP has.
I disagree that anything I've commented is muddying the waters - "Confuse the issue, as in Bringing up one irrelevant fact after another, he succeeded in muddying the waters."

As the topic is hoping to locate and understand ZOS' stance and see communication on how ZOS in the future will deal with cheating. A lot of what you write is pretty much the same as what I'm saying but I think we are both pointing out the lack of clarity and consistency as well as the absence of a stance.

The future comments, clarity and stance is going to be overall and not limited to one type of exploit, cheat, or abuse as all are the definition of cheating. Some are just describing a specific method used to cheat.

clayandaudrey_ESO

I don't think anyone here wants or expects to know how they are doing things. It's more of a we want to know your policy for handling those who do these types of things. It needs to be communicated and most importantly adhered to by ZOS.

This is what I expect. If anyone expects to find details on how they are looking for 3rd party programs then you will be disappointed because that is not forthcoming.

NewBlacksmurf

clayandaudrey_ESO wrote: »

I don't think anyone here wants or expects to know how they are doing things. It's more of a we want to know your policy for handling those who do these types of things. It needs to be communicated and most importantly adhered to by ZOS.

This is what I expect. If anyone expects to find details on how they are looking for 3rd party programs then you will be disappointed because that is not forthcoming.

this^

Tavore1138

NewBlacksmurf wrote: »

Tavore1138 wrote: »

@NewBlacksmurf - you may have good intentions but you are muddying the waters.

A very specific kind of cheating ws proven to be happening, one that involved using 3rd party hacking tools and the blatant ulti spamming was merely the most obvious symptom.

After at first ignoring it ZOS said they were taking action and as per the quote ftom @ZOS_JessicaFolsom they promised an update which has not been delivered, further reducing trust in the game and those running it.

We don't need details just a clear statement that they have, or will soon have, a proper way of detecting this type of cheating and stopping it... Whereas we see people getting bans lifted and no statements from a company seemingly hoping we'll just forget that any competitive aspect of this game is currently corrupted.

They also said leader boards would be purged and that has not happened either.

The cheating (exploiting) you speak of is not great but it is based on in game errors or people simply being bad... still annoying but on a very different level.

@Tavore1138
Its an all or none question the OP has.
I disagree that anything I've commented is muddying the waters - "Confuse the issue, as in Bringing up one irrelevant fact after another, he succeeded in muddying the waters."

As the topic is hoping to locate and understand ZOS' stance and see communication on how ZOS in the future will deal with cheating. A lot of what you write is pretty much the same as what I'm saying but I think we are both pointing out the lack of clarity and consistency as well as the absence of a stance.

I think we all just want the promised statement on hacking right now... that is a huge problem as it means you can't trust anything that happens so everyone suspects everyone else.

Eith exploits you can pretty much know if someone is abusing axe bleeds or something similar and their names become known as pathetic exploiters anyway.

So once hacking is fixed then we can worry about people who get their mates to roll alts on the other side or people who log onto another alliance to recover scrolls and so on.