Sorcerer hardened ward

bowmanz607

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Change to ward is fine. It should be used more intelligently, not placed on for 1/3 of a minute incase you take damage.

If you take damage as a sorc w/o a shield up your lucky if you're not dead. That being said all the change did is require sorcs to cast shields more, reducing our already pitiful sustain and dps in PvE

I love the argument that a sorc is dead without shields up. How do you think others do in robes? Others survive without shields. Just have to change your build up a bit. But alas, that is the problem.

That said, practically speaking a sorcs shields are getting refreshed inside of 6 seconds against a competent player. You want longer shields than go with the 10 sec morph.

Other classes have good heals or mitigation that are not reliant on pets or locked behind an interruptible, horrible skill that pretty much every sorcerer since Beta has been renaming it to Useless Exchange.

Good heals? Temp have bol sure. Dk and nb have hot. Typically needing to combine with healing ward. Sorc have critical heals and you can utilize abilities such as rapid regeneration or mutagen. Your failure to utilize skills to cover deficiencies is on you. Others go out of class for a shield. Why can't you for a hot? Sure some things need to be worked on with sorc. All classes.have things to work on. What is not an issue is the shield changes.

And yet sorcerers are the only class in the game that isn't dominant in any role.

Best Magicka DPS? Nope.
Best Stamina DPS? Definitely not.
Best Tank? LOL? @Wrobel wants us to be Crit Based Tanks... That is how bad our current state is.
Best Healers? Nope, still too reliant on pets, still too many toggles to actually slot all the skills a proper healer needs.
Best Utility? HAH, worse utility actually, Negate remains worse than any of the other classes Utility Ultimates and weaker than Barrier or War Horn.

And while it is true NBs and DKs only have HoTs, they also have different Mitigations, such as Veil, which is a must have for raids and DKs are the best tanks in the game, so their kit is filled to the brim with mitigations. Tell me again what makes sorcerers needed for any content in this game?

I'm not disagreeing that sorcs need work and I would expect them to get the next round of buffs. What I am stating is that shields are not the issue. Shields are fine. Look elsewhere in the sorcs skills to tweak and buff. Regardless if shields were at 20 seconds 15 seconds 10 seconds or 6 seconds, the change to shields does not effect the issues you state.

Oh, I don't think the nerf to shields is a huge issue, but it coupled to a really heavy nerf to Surge and no buffs anywhere for the class has indeed killed Sorcerers in ESO. It is that simple, the class is unplayable or at least it is not enjoyable to play as a sorcerer.

The duration of shields do affect Solo content quite a bit though, VMA was likely the only content in this game in which sorcerers were still deserving of some praise and now players that were top of the leader board are having issues completing the content in any satisfying or competitive manner.

Also not sure we will get a round of buffs any time soon. @Wrobel stated in sorcerer Q&A that he thinks sorcerers are fine with the current build restrictions shackling them, so I don't foresee meaningful changes unless there is a massive exodus of sorcerer players. DB is a sad extension for those of us that main a sorcerer.

He did also concede that sorcs were lacking in some areas. Specifically in spammable dps, but changes to help mag sorc will be in the form of, hopefully useful, changes to deato. Nor to mention watching how the other changes as they are tested on live.

Lylith

Waffennacht wrote: »

My new favorite Wrobel quote, "Some people will prefer Hardened Ward, some will use Empowered Ward, and some will use Hardened Ward with Dampen Magic. None of these decisions are right..."

wrobel missed his calling, he should be in politics.

bardx86

DHale wrote: »

No more sorcing for me. It's my new bank toon. She isn't even wearing armor anymore to much work to keep shields up.

very true, just a pain in the butt

Grao

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Change to ward is fine. It should be used more intelligently, not placed on for 1/3 of a minute incase you take damage.

If you take damage as a sorc w/o a shield up your lucky if you're not dead. That being said all the change did is require sorcs to cast shields more, reducing our already pitiful sustain and dps in PvE

I love the argument that a sorc is dead without shields up. How do you think others do in robes? Others survive without shields. Just have to change your build up a bit. But alas, that is the problem.

That said, practically speaking a sorcs shields are getting refreshed inside of 6 seconds against a competent player. You want longer shields than go with the 10 sec morph.

Other classes have good heals or mitigation that are not reliant on pets or locked behind an interruptible, horrible skill that pretty much every sorcerer since Beta has been renaming it to Useless Exchange.

Good heals? Temp have bol sure. Dk and nb have hot. Typically needing to combine with healing ward. Sorc have critical heals and you can utilize abilities such as rapid regeneration or mutagen. Your failure to utilize skills to cover deficiencies is on you. Others go out of class for a shield. Why can't you for a hot? Sure some things need to be worked on with sorc. All classes.have things to work on. What is not an issue is the shield changes.

And yet sorcerers are the only class in the game that isn't dominant in any role.

Best Magicka DPS? Nope.
Best Stamina DPS? Definitely not.
Best Tank? LOL? @Wrobel wants us to be Crit Based Tanks... That is how bad our current state is.
Best Healers? Nope, still too reliant on pets, still too many toggles to actually slot all the skills a proper healer needs.
Best Utility? HAH, worse utility actually, Negate remains worse than any of the other classes Utility Ultimates and weaker than Barrier or War Horn.

And while it is true NBs and DKs only have HoTs, they also have different Mitigations, such as Veil, which is a must have for raids and DKs are the best tanks in the game, so their kit is filled to the brim with mitigations. Tell me again what makes sorcerers needed for any content in this game?

I'm not disagreeing that sorcs need work and I would expect them to get the next round of buffs. What I am stating is that shields are not the issue. Shields are fine. Look elsewhere in the sorcs skills to tweak and buff. Regardless if shields were at 20 seconds 15 seconds 10 seconds or 6 seconds, the change to shields does not effect the issues you state.

Oh, I don't think the nerf to shields is a huge issue, but it coupled to a really heavy nerf to Surge and no buffs anywhere for the class has indeed killed Sorcerers in ESO. It is that simple, the class is unplayable or at least it is not enjoyable to play as a sorcerer.

The duration of shields do affect Solo content quite a bit though, VMA was likely the only content in this game in which sorcerers were still deserving of some praise and now players that were top of the leader board are having issues completing the content in any satisfying or competitive manner.

Also not sure we will get a round of buffs any time soon. @Wrobel stated in sorcerer Q&A that he thinks sorcerers are fine with the current build restrictions shackling them, so I don't foresee meaningful changes unless there is a massive exodus of sorcerer players. DB is a sad extension for those of us that main a sorcerer.

He did also concede that sorcs were lacking in some areas. Specifically in spammable dps, but changes to help mag sorc will be in the form of, hopefully useful, changes to deato. Nor to mention watching how the other changes as they are tested on live.

Trapping Webs was never meant to be a spammable ability such as Lava Whip, Force Shock, Strife, etc. It costs more and is lower damage. The focus for Undaunted abilities is having powerful Synergies, so we redesigned it to feel less spammy. (Note that each Synergy has a 20-second cooldown before you can activate it again.)
We understand that Sorcerers would like more freedom with choosing what weapon to use. As a Stamina character, even without a class damaging ability, you have a diverse set of options between Bow, 1h Shield, 2h, and Dual Wield. Magicka technically has 4 options as well – Restoration Staff and 3 flavors of Destruction Staff. However Restoration staff doesn’t support offensive abilities and there is not enough diversity between the three types of Destruction Staff. We don’t have any immediate plans to change this, but we would like to give Sorcerers more compelling decisions when selecting a weapon.

^ That is what you consider @Wrobel 's concession? For me that sounds like 'we know not having a spammable ability in the sorcerer's kit terribly restricts their game play and flexibility, but we have no plans to address the problem in the near future', which in turn can be translated to 'Eh, yeah, we are aware there are problems, but we just don't care enough to fix it, but here, have some nerfs.'

Miss_Morphine

I love my sorc. It's my first real character, it's my completionist, and I quit it. There is 0 reason to play it anymore. My templar is better at literally everything. The sorc has no unique useful skills aside from overload, and other classes have great ultimates too - on top of that they're not pigeonholed into using a destro/resto combination.
Everyone has access to a version of hardened ward, and yeah we can stack an extra shield but if you're sitting there stacking three shields you do no damage. Pets are still useless. We have no good heal now that crit surge has been nerfed and no spammable skill. And we have no efficient mitigation.

Nightblades have siphoning, shadow cloak, and veil.
DKs have a bunch of passives, standards, embers, dragon blood and magma armor - not the most efficient but still miles better.
Templars have heals coming out of their ears, not to mention novas, etc.
All stam based toons have vigor, roll dodge and block.

Sorcs have an incredibly expensive streak that doesn't measure up to gap closers and isn't resource effective in PvE, we have a heal with a cast time that will get you killed every time, crit surge which is nerfed, and only boundless storm and bound armor for a bit of mitigation. We're just paper thin at this point. This was the nail in the coffin.

At most I'll quest and craft on my sorc, but aside from that it is retired.

Grao

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

I love my sorc. It's my first real character, it's my completionist, and I quit it. There is 0 reason to play it anymore. My templar is better at literally everything. The sorc has no unique useful skills aside from overload, and other classes have great ultimates too - on top of that they're not pigeonholed into using a destro/resto combination.
Everyone has access to a version of hardened ward, and yeah we can stack an extra shield but if you're sitting there stacking three shields you do no damage. Pets are still useless. We have no good heal now that crit surge has been nerfed and no spammable skill. And we have no efficient mitigation.

Nightblades have siphoning, shadow cloak, and veil.
DKs have a bunch of passives, standards, embers, dragon blood and magma armor - not the most efficient but still miles better.
Templars have heals coming out of their ears, not to mention novas, etc.
All stam based toons have vigor, roll dodge and block.

Sorcs have an incredibly expensive streak that doesn't measure up to gap closers and isn't resource effective in PvE, we have a heal with a cast time that will get you killed every time, crit surge which is nerfed, and only boundless storm and bound armor for a bit of mitigation. We're just paper thin at this point. This was the nail in the coffin.

At most I'll quest and craft on my sorc, but aside from that it is retired.

YES! One more making his signature awesome and representative of our feelings towards @Wrobel ! Lets make this a thing, main sorcerers everywhere!!!

On a side not, of course I agree with you... It is time to level up an overpowered stamina DK and a fun magicka templar as the first is simply so damn overpowered and the second is what sorcerers should be... Good and magical >.<. Oh, and they are both actually fun to play!

DjKahun

R.I.P ESO 2014 - 2016

Looks like upgrading ALL my gear to V16 Legendary with all the traits I needed are useless now as I won't be playing the sorc anymore, and it's not like I can move all of it to a templar as it's not impenetrable because the sorc had shields.. I regret doing it now I should have done all my gear on my Stamplar first then the Sorcerer.

Grao

DjKahun wrote: »

R.I.P ESO 2014 - 2016

Looks like upgrading ALL my gear to V16 Legendary with all the traits I needed are useless now as I won't be playing the sorc anymore, and it's not like I can move all of it to a templar as it's not impenetrable because the sorc had shields.. I regret doing it now I should have done all my gear on my Stamplar first then the Sorcerer.

Come on, change your signature to mimic ours! Join the movement, the dark brotherhood is bloodstained by the blood of all those sorcerers being murdered or mangled so badly they can only find work as bankers!

InvitationNotFound

most of the time i thought, these changes won't affect me too much, as you always have to recast them anyway.

well, it already annoys me pretty much. casting all few seconds a shield while running through the sewers just to not get instant ganked. technically not an issue, but extremely annoying.

once again, the Wrobler at his finest.

Grao

InvitationNotFound wrote: »

most of the time i thought, these changes won't affect me too much, as you always have to recast them anyway.

well, it already annoys me pretty much. casting all few seconds a shield while running through the sewers just to not get instant ganked. technically not an issue, but extremely annoying.

once again, the Wrobler at his finest.

The problem is that @Wrobel didn't stop at nerfing just our shields, he also went and obliterated Surge! So now you can't shield as efficiently or heal as efficiently. But hey, Useless Exchange got some serious buffs...

InvitationNotFound

mobility sucks as well. i usually used the new "hurricane" after streak. and now i only get 10% which are unnoticeable in itself but instead i pull all mobs around me... *sighs* have to look what the other morph does or alternatives...

bowmanz607

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Change to ward is fine. It should be used more intelligently, not placed on for 1/3 of a minute incase you take damage.

If you take damage as a sorc w/o a shield up your lucky if you're not dead. That being said all the change did is require sorcs to cast shields more, reducing our already pitiful sustain and dps in PvE

I love the argument that a sorc is dead without shields up. How do you think others do in robes? Others survive without shields. Just have to change your build up a bit. But alas, that is the problem.

That said, practically speaking a sorcs shields are getting refreshed inside of 6 seconds against a competent player. You want longer shields than go with the 10 sec morph.

Other classes have good heals or mitigation that are not reliant on pets or locked behind an interruptible, horrible skill that pretty much every sorcerer since Beta has been renaming it to Useless Exchange.

Good heals? Temp have bol sure. Dk and nb have hot. Typically needing to combine with healing ward. Sorc have critical heals and you can utilize abilities such as rapid regeneration or mutagen. Your failure to utilize skills to cover deficiencies is on you. Others go out of class for a shield. Why can't you for a hot? Sure some things need to be worked on with sorc. All classes.have things to work on. What is not an issue is the shield changes.

And yet sorcerers are the only class in the game that isn't dominant in any role.

Best Magicka DPS? Nope.
Best Stamina DPS? Definitely not.
Best Tank? LOL? @Wrobel wants us to be Crit Based Tanks... That is how bad our current state is.
Best Healers? Nope, still too reliant on pets, still too many toggles to actually slot all the skills a proper healer needs.
Best Utility? HAH, worse utility actually, Negate remains worse than any of the other classes Utility Ultimates and weaker than Barrier or War Horn.

And while it is true NBs and DKs only have HoTs, they also have different Mitigations, such as Veil, which is a must have for raids and DKs are the best tanks in the game, so their kit is filled to the brim with mitigations. Tell me again what makes sorcerers needed for any content in this game?

I'm not disagreeing that sorcs need work and I would expect them to get the next round of buffs. What I am stating is that shields are not the issue. Shields are fine. Look elsewhere in the sorcs skills to tweak and buff. Regardless if shields were at 20 seconds 15 seconds 10 seconds or 6 seconds, the change to shields does not effect the issues you state.

Oh, I don't think the nerf to shields is a huge issue, but it coupled to a really heavy nerf to Surge and no buffs anywhere for the class has indeed killed Sorcerers in ESO. It is that simple, the class is unplayable or at least it is not enjoyable to play as a sorcerer.

The duration of shields do affect Solo content quite a bit though, VMA was likely the only content in this game in which sorcerers were still deserving of some praise and now players that were top of the leader board are having issues completing the content in any satisfying or competitive manner.

Also not sure we will get a round of buffs any time soon. @Wrobel stated in sorcerer Q&A that he thinks sorcerers are fine with the current build restrictions shackling them, so I don't foresee meaningful changes unless there is a massive exodus of sorcerer players. DB is a sad extension for those of us that main a sorcerer.

He did also concede that sorcs were lacking in some areas. Specifically in spammable dps, but changes to help mag sorc will be in the form of, hopefully useful, changes to deato. Nor to mention watching how the other changes as they are tested on live.

Trapping Webs was never meant to be a spammable ability such as Lava Whip, Force Shock, Strife, etc. It costs more and is lower damage. The focus for Undaunted abilities is having powerful Synergies, so we redesigned it to feel less spammy. (Note that each Synergy has a 20-second cooldown before you can activate it again.)
We understand that Sorcerers would like more freedom with choosing what weapon to use. As a Stamina character, even without a class damaging ability, you have a diverse set of options between Bow, 1h Shield, 2h, and Dual Wield. Magicka technically has 4 options as well – Restoration Staff and 3 flavors of Destruction Staff. However Restoration staff doesn’t support offensive abilities and there is not enough diversity between the three types of Destruction Staff. We don’t have any immediate plans to change this, but we would like to give Sorcerers more compelling decisions when selecting a weapon.

^ That is what you consider @Wrobel 's concession? For me that sounds like 'we know not having a spammable ability in the sorcerer's kit terribly restricts their game play and flexibility, but we have no plans to address the problem in the near future', which in turn can be translated to 'Eh, yeah, we are aware there are problems, but we just don't care enough to fix it, but here, have some nerfs.'

Really, to me this sounds like we don't want all classes to operate in the same fashion. Going on to say that there should be viable options in the weapon trees and where Stam has some options to do so, mag does not really have any options so stay tuned for some desto changes that we are aware are needed.

Grao

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Change to ward is fine. It should be used more intelligently, not placed on for 1/3 of a minute incase you take damage.

If you take damage as a sorc w/o a shield up your lucky if you're not dead. That being said all the change did is require sorcs to cast shields more, reducing our already pitiful sustain and dps in PvE

I love the argument that a sorc is dead without shields up. How do you think others do in robes? Others survive without shields. Just have to change your build up a bit. But alas, that is the problem.

That said, practically speaking a sorcs shields are getting refreshed inside of 6 seconds against a competent player. You want longer shields than go with the 10 sec morph.

Other classes have good heals or mitigation that are not reliant on pets or locked behind an interruptible, horrible skill that pretty much every sorcerer since Beta has been renaming it to Useless Exchange.

Good heals? Temp have bol sure. Dk and nb have hot. Typically needing to combine with healing ward. Sorc have critical heals and you can utilize abilities such as rapid regeneration or mutagen. Your failure to utilize skills to cover deficiencies is on you. Others go out of class for a shield. Why can't you for a hot? Sure some things need to be worked on with sorc. All classes.have things to work on. What is not an issue is the shield changes.

And yet sorcerers are the only class in the game that isn't dominant in any role.

Best Magicka DPS? Nope.
Best Stamina DPS? Definitely not.
Best Tank? LOL? @Wrobel wants us to be Crit Based Tanks... That is how bad our current state is.
Best Healers? Nope, still too reliant on pets, still too many toggles to actually slot all the skills a proper healer needs.
Best Utility? HAH, worse utility actually, Negate remains worse than any of the other classes Utility Ultimates and weaker than Barrier or War Horn.

And while it is true NBs and DKs only have HoTs, they also have different Mitigations, such as Veil, which is a must have for raids and DKs are the best tanks in the game, so their kit is filled to the brim with mitigations. Tell me again what makes sorcerers needed for any content in this game?

I'm not disagreeing that sorcs need work and I would expect them to get the next round of buffs. What I am stating is that shields are not the issue. Shields are fine. Look elsewhere in the sorcs skills to tweak and buff. Regardless if shields were at 20 seconds 15 seconds 10 seconds or 6 seconds, the change to shields does not effect the issues you state.

Oh, I don't think the nerf to shields is a huge issue, but it coupled to a really heavy nerf to Surge and no buffs anywhere for the class has indeed killed Sorcerers in ESO. It is that simple, the class is unplayable or at least it is not enjoyable to play as a sorcerer.

The duration of shields do affect Solo content quite a bit though, VMA was likely the only content in this game in which sorcerers were still deserving of some praise and now players that were top of the leader board are having issues completing the content in any satisfying or competitive manner.

Also not sure we will get a round of buffs any time soon. @Wrobel stated in sorcerer Q&A that he thinks sorcerers are fine with the current build restrictions shackling them, so I don't foresee meaningful changes unless there is a massive exodus of sorcerer players. DB is a sad extension for those of us that main a sorcerer.

He did also concede that sorcs were lacking in some areas. Specifically in spammable dps, but changes to help mag sorc will be in the form of, hopefully useful, changes to deato. Nor to mention watching how the other changes as they are tested on live.

Trapping Webs was never meant to be a spammable ability such as Lava Whip, Force Shock, Strife, etc. It costs more and is lower damage. The focus for Undaunted abilities is having powerful Synergies, so we redesigned it to feel less spammy. (Note that each Synergy has a 20-second cooldown before you can activate it again.)
We understand that Sorcerers would like more freedom with choosing what weapon to use. As a Stamina character, even without a class damaging ability, you have a diverse set of options between Bow, 1h Shield, 2h, and Dual Wield. Magicka technically has 4 options as well – Restoration Staff and 3 flavors of Destruction Staff. However Restoration staff doesn’t support offensive abilities and there is not enough diversity between the three types of Destruction Staff. We don’t have any immediate plans to change this, but we would like to give Sorcerers more compelling decisions when selecting a weapon.

^ That is what you consider @Wrobel 's concession? For me that sounds like 'we know not having a spammable ability in the sorcerer's kit terribly restricts their game play and flexibility, but we have no plans to address the problem in the near future', which in turn can be translated to 'Eh, yeah, we are aware there are problems, but we just don't care enough to fix it, but here, have some nerfs.'

Really, to me this sounds like we don't want all classes to operate in the same fashion. Going on to say that there should be viable options in the weapon trees and where Stam has some options to do so, mag does not really have any options so stay tuned for some desto changes that we are aware are needed.

Alright, it is really easy to be optimistic when your main was never the worse in every PvE role ^^

bowmanz607

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Change to ward is fine. It should be used more intelligently, not placed on for 1/3 of a minute incase you take damage.

If you take damage as a sorc w/o a shield up your lucky if you're not dead. That being said all the change did is require sorcs to cast shields more, reducing our already pitiful sustain and dps in PvE

I love the argument that a sorc is dead without shields up. How do you think others do in robes? Others survive without shields. Just have to change your build up a bit. But alas, that is the problem.

That said, practically speaking a sorcs shields are getting refreshed inside of 6 seconds against a competent player. You want longer shields than go with the 10 sec morph.

Other classes have good heals or mitigation that are not reliant on pets or locked behind an interruptible, horrible skill that pretty much every sorcerer since Beta has been renaming it to Useless Exchange.

Good heals? Temp have bol sure. Dk and nb have hot. Typically needing to combine with healing ward. Sorc have critical heals and you can utilize abilities such as rapid regeneration or mutagen. Your failure to utilize skills to cover deficiencies is on you. Others go out of class for a shield. Why can't you for a hot? Sure some things need to be worked on with sorc. All classes.have things to work on. What is not an issue is the shield changes.

And yet sorcerers are the only class in the game that isn't dominant in any role.

Best Magicka DPS? Nope.
Best Stamina DPS? Definitely not.
Best Tank? LOL? @Wrobel wants us to be Crit Based Tanks... That is how bad our current state is.
Best Healers? Nope, still too reliant on pets, still too many toggles to actually slot all the skills a proper healer needs.
Best Utility? HAH, worse utility actually, Negate remains worse than any of the other classes Utility Ultimates and weaker than Barrier or War Horn.

And while it is true NBs and DKs only have HoTs, they also have different Mitigations, such as Veil, which is a must have for raids and DKs are the best tanks in the game, so their kit is filled to the brim with mitigations. Tell me again what makes sorcerers needed for any content in this game?

I'm not disagreeing that sorcs need work and I would expect them to get the next round of buffs. What I am stating is that shields are not the issue. Shields are fine. Look elsewhere in the sorcs skills to tweak and buff. Regardless if shields were at 20 seconds 15 seconds 10 seconds or 6 seconds, the change to shields does not effect the issues you state.

Oh, I don't think the nerf to shields is a huge issue, but it coupled to a really heavy nerf to Surge and no buffs anywhere for the class has indeed killed Sorcerers in ESO. It is that simple, the class is unplayable or at least it is not enjoyable to play as a sorcerer.

The duration of shields do affect Solo content quite a bit though, VMA was likely the only content in this game in which sorcerers were still deserving of some praise and now players that were top of the leader board are having issues completing the content in any satisfying or competitive manner.

Also not sure we will get a round of buffs any time soon. @Wrobel stated in sorcerer Q&A that he thinks sorcerers are fine with the current build restrictions shackling them, so I don't foresee meaningful changes unless there is a massive exodus of sorcerer players. DB is a sad extension for those of us that main a sorcerer.

He did also concede that sorcs were lacking in some areas. Specifically in spammable dps, but changes to help mag sorc will be in the form of, hopefully useful, changes to deato. Nor to mention watching how the other changes as they are tested on live.

Trapping Webs was never meant to be a spammable ability such as Lava Whip, Force Shock, Strife, etc. It costs more and is lower damage. The focus for Undaunted abilities is having powerful Synergies, so we redesigned it to feel less spammy. (Note that each Synergy has a 20-second cooldown before you can activate it again.)
We understand that Sorcerers would like more freedom with choosing what weapon to use. As a Stamina character, even without a class damaging ability, you have a diverse set of options between Bow, 1h Shield, 2h, and Dual Wield. Magicka technically has 4 options as well – Restoration Staff and 3 flavors of Destruction Staff. However Restoration staff doesn’t support offensive abilities and there is not enough diversity between the three types of Destruction Staff. We don’t have any immediate plans to change this, but we would like to give Sorcerers more compelling decisions when selecting a weapon.

^ That is what you consider @Wrobel 's concession? For me that sounds like 'we know not having a spammable ability in the sorcerer's kit terribly restricts their game play and flexibility, but we have no plans to address the problem in the near future', which in turn can be translated to 'Eh, yeah, we are aware there are problems, but we just don't care enough to fix it, but here, have some nerfs.'

Really, to me this sounds like we don't want all classes to operate in the same fashion. Going on to say that there should be viable options in the weapon trees and where Stam has some options to do so, mag does not really have any options so stay tuned for some desto changes that we are aware are needed.

Alright, it is really easy to be optimistic when your main was never the worse in every PvE role ^^

Ummm nb at launch until 1.4 I believe it was. I also don't see it as optimistic view of what wrote said, but exactly is the message he was trying to relay.

Grao

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Natas013 wrote: »

notimetocare wrote: »

Change to ward is fine. It should be used more intelligently, not placed on for 1/3 of a minute incase you take damage.

If you take damage as a sorc w/o a shield up your lucky if you're not dead. That being said all the change did is require sorcs to cast shields more, reducing our already pitiful sustain and dps in PvE

I love the argument that a sorc is dead without shields up. How do you think others do in robes? Others survive without shields. Just have to change your build up a bit. But alas, that is the problem.

That said, practically speaking a sorcs shields are getting refreshed inside of 6 seconds against a competent player. You want longer shields than go with the 10 sec morph.

Other classes have good heals or mitigation that are not reliant on pets or locked behind an interruptible, horrible skill that pretty much every sorcerer since Beta has been renaming it to Useless Exchange.

Good heals? Temp have bol sure. Dk and nb have hot. Typically needing to combine with healing ward. Sorc have critical heals and you can utilize abilities such as rapid regeneration or mutagen. Your failure to utilize skills to cover deficiencies is on you. Others go out of class for a shield. Why can't you for a hot? Sure some things need to be worked on with sorc. All classes.have things to work on. What is not an issue is the shield changes.

And yet sorcerers are the only class in the game that isn't dominant in any role.

Best Magicka DPS? Nope.
Best Stamina DPS? Definitely not.
Best Tank? LOL? @Wrobel wants us to be Crit Based Tanks... That is how bad our current state is.
Best Healers? Nope, still too reliant on pets, still too many toggles to actually slot all the skills a proper healer needs.
Best Utility? HAH, worse utility actually, Negate remains worse than any of the other classes Utility Ultimates and weaker than Barrier or War Horn.

And while it is true NBs and DKs only have HoTs, they also have different Mitigations, such as Veil, which is a must have for raids and DKs are the best tanks in the game, so their kit is filled to the brim with mitigations. Tell me again what makes sorcerers needed for any content in this game?

I'm not disagreeing that sorcs need work and I would expect them to get the next round of buffs. What I am stating is that shields are not the issue. Shields are fine. Look elsewhere in the sorcs skills to tweak and buff. Regardless if shields were at 20 seconds 15 seconds 10 seconds or 6 seconds, the change to shields does not effect the issues you state.

Oh, I don't think the nerf to shields is a huge issue, but it coupled to a really heavy nerf to Surge and no buffs anywhere for the class has indeed killed Sorcerers in ESO. It is that simple, the class is unplayable or at least it is not enjoyable to play as a sorcerer.

The duration of shields do affect Solo content quite a bit though, VMA was likely the only content in this game in which sorcerers were still deserving of some praise and now players that were top of the leader board are having issues completing the content in any satisfying or competitive manner.

Also not sure we will get a round of buffs any time soon. @Wrobel stated in sorcerer Q&A that he thinks sorcerers are fine with the current build restrictions shackling them, so I don't foresee meaningful changes unless there is a massive exodus of sorcerer players. DB is a sad extension for those of us that main a sorcerer.

He did also concede that sorcs were lacking in some areas. Specifically in spammable dps, but changes to help mag sorc will be in the form of, hopefully useful, changes to deato. Nor to mention watching how the other changes as they are tested on live.

Trapping Webs was never meant to be a spammable ability such as Lava Whip, Force Shock, Strife, etc. It costs more and is lower damage. The focus for Undaunted abilities is having powerful Synergies, so we redesigned it to feel less spammy. (Note that each Synergy has a 20-second cooldown before you can activate it again.)
We understand that Sorcerers would like more freedom with choosing what weapon to use. As a Stamina character, even without a class damaging ability, you have a diverse set of options between Bow, 1h Shield, 2h, and Dual Wield. Magicka technically has 4 options as well – Restoration Staff and 3 flavors of Destruction Staff. However Restoration staff doesn’t support offensive abilities and there is not enough diversity between the three types of Destruction Staff. We don’t have any immediate plans to change this, but we would like to give Sorcerers more compelling decisions when selecting a weapon.

^ That is what you consider @Wrobel 's concession? For me that sounds like 'we know not having a spammable ability in the sorcerer's kit terribly restricts their game play and flexibility, but we have no plans to address the problem in the near future', which in turn can be translated to 'Eh, yeah, we are aware there are problems, but we just don't care enough to fix it, but here, have some nerfs.'

Really, to me this sounds like we don't want all classes to operate in the same fashion. Going on to say that there should be viable options in the weapon trees and where Stam has some options to do so, mag does not really have any options so stay tuned for some desto changes that we are aware are needed.

Alright, it is really easy to be optimistic when your main was never the worse in every PvE role ^^

Ummm nb at launch until 1.4 I believe it was. I also don't see it as optimistic view of what wrote said, but exactly is the message he was trying to relay.

Nightblades had it rough when the game was released, true, but they were ALWAYS required to complete end game PvE content because of Veil. What exactly to sorcerers offer to the group that make them even remotely necessary again?

Arkvoril

Grao wrote: »

Come on, change your signature to mimic ours! Join the movement, the dark brotherhood is bloodstained by the blood of all those sorcerers being murdered or mangled so badly they can only find work as bankers!

Sorcerers are just a pain in the butt now and not fun to play. I'm going to theory craft but not optimistic about it.

NBrookus

Arkvoril wrote: »

Sorcerers are just a pain in the butt now and not fun to play.

This is really what it all comes down to. It's a game. We're supposed to be having fun, and sorcs are no longer fun.

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO

bowmanz607 wrote: »

jnikolay wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

TheMaury_Philosopher wrote: »

Hi,
I noticed that Hardened ward active time has been reduced from 20 to 6 sec...Come on, too few sec! It is no more worth using it!
Cannot be adjusted to 10 sec at least?
Thanks

This was discussed in pts. See writers q & a on sorcs. It won't happen.

I think you mean Q and Non-A. All they said was "We heard your opinions and don't give a *** about them" for every question.

i agree with the direction hey went with shields. Myself and others do not share your opinion, so from my perspective they did care. shields dont even last 6 seconds in a fight in pvp anyway. ALso, you have another moph that has a higher duration.

Seriously, stop posting in threads about things you know nothing at all about, stop making yourself look bad

Grao

NBrookus wrote: »

Arkvoril wrote: »

Sorcerers are just a pain in the butt now and not fun to play.

This is really what it all comes down to. It's a game. We're supposed to be having fun, and sorcs are no longer fun.

Level 50 Magicka Sorcerer, PvP harvesting toon

Be careful with that one, the dark brotherhood is hunting Sorcerers!

DHale

Once upon a time I was a sorc. As in last week.... Sorc retired.... Confirmed.

bowmanz607

cosmic_niklas_93b16_ESO wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

jnikolay wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

TheMaury_Philosopher wrote: »

Hi,
I noticed that Hardened ward active time has been reduced from 20 to 6 sec...Come on, too few sec! It is no more worth using it!
Cannot be adjusted to 10 sec at least?
Thanks

This was discussed in pts. See writers q & a on sorcs. It won't happen.

I think you mean Q and Non-A. All they said was "We heard your opinions and don't give a *** about them" for every question.

i agree with the direction hey went with shields. Myself and others do not share your opinion, so from my perspective they did care. shields dont even last 6 seconds in a fight in pvp anyway. ALso, you have another moph that has a higher duration.

Seriously, stop posting in threads about things you know nothing at all about, stop making yourself look bad

cool story bro.
Glad you think i dont know things. Makes me feel fuzzy and warm.

Grao

DHale wrote: »

Once upon a time I was a sorc. As in last week.... Sorc retired.... Confirmed.

Welcome brother. Time to level that overpowered stamina DK? XD

Birdovic

Its a very sad Development thats Going on, especially for me, it's been my very first character and I played it at least 1+ year, before I even tried leveling other classes.

Now that damn pale dunmer vamp sorc is standing in character selection screen naked, even took his armor and using it on my MagDK now.


But the most disappointing part is, how we, everyone in the Damn forum, every streamer and everyone have else gives so many, awesome suggestions to fix this, improve that,but it's like talking to a damn wall or to a ignorant/stubborn kid, that dislikes everything others say because it's not his own taste.

As a company, they should work to make everyone happy with their product, it's not just a personal little project.

If people ask for Hellokitty, give them Hellokitty
No damn spongebob squarepants.


When I read "explanations", why things were decided as they were(like recent Sorcerer PTS changes thread) or listen at eso live, all I can do is shaking my head, it's painful to watch this much longer. These decisions, they start to HURT, yes, I think my brain stops working to prevent serious damage from nonsense-overload.

Those are no explanations and all they do is confirming the aforementioned ignorance, by avoiding a two sided discussion as usually.

Just check my signature, I don't know if I should cry or laugh about that anymore.

To clarify: No, it doesn't feel "awesome" to be interrupted with damage higher than the received healing, while unable to do anything (channel) while we cc break and lose 40% of our Stam pool.



Rant over.

Resipsa131

TBH it won't effect VMA runs that much as I flip to back bar every 8 seconds or so to activate my boundless storm to keep up expedition. Sure its a nerf but its probably warranted for maelstrom. Frankly I think the surge changes sound a bit worse although I play console so I haven't gotten to test them myself.

Waffennacht

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Its a very sad Development thats Going on, especially for me, it's been my very first character and I played it at least 1+ year, before I even tried leveling other classes.

Now that damn pale dunmer vamp sorc is standing in character selection screen naked, even took his armor and using it on my MagDK now.


But the most disappointing part is, how we, everyone in the Damn forum, every streamer and everyone have else gives so many, awesome suggestions to fix this, improve that,but it's like talking to a damn wall or to a ignorant/stubborn kid, that dislikes everything others say because it's not his own taste.

As a company, they should work to make everyone happy with their product, it's not just a personal little project.

If people ask for Hellokitty, give them Hellokitty
No damn spongebob squarepants.


When I read "explanations", why things were decided as they were(like recent Sorcerer PTS changes thread) or listen at eso live, all I can do is shaking my head, it's painful to watch this much longer. These decisions, they start to HURT, yes, I think my brain stops working to prevent serious damage from nonsense-overload.

Those are no explanations and all they do is confirming the aforementioned ignorance, by avoiding a two sided discussion as usually.

Just check my signature, I don't know if I should cry or laugh about that anymore.

To clarify: No, it doesn't feel "awesome" to be interrupted with damage higher than the received healing, while unable to do anything (channel) while we cc break and lose 40% of our Stam pool.



Rant over.

Why, Even if we do Fire it, WOULD IT FEEL AWESOME?

It's a heal! By default it only EXTENDS battle.

You know what feels awesome? An Attack!

If I remember correctly Wrobel compared Exchange with an attack? There is no heal that feels "awesome"

Any charged attack may feel awesome cuz you killed your enemy and the battle was won. No battle has been won with a time taking heal.

Miss_Morphine

Grao wrote: »

YES! One more making his signature awesome and representative of our feelings towards @Wrobel ! Lets make this a thing, main sorcerers everywhere!!!

On a side not, of course I agree with you... It is time to level up an overpowered stamina DK and a fun magicka templar as the first is simply so damn overpowered and the second is what sorcerers should be... Good and magical >.<. Oh, and they are both actually fun to play!

Way ahead of you there, already have a Templar which I just have to respec from heals to DPS, and am working on a stam DK.

What a kick in the gut from @Wrobel - it's like he doesn't actually play any of the competitive high end content - PvE or PvP.

Leveling my DK in Bleakrock/Davon's Watch aside from players new to the game most of the new toons are sorcs rerolling. I wish more would rant on the forums as it feels like that's the only thing devs listen to.

Grao

Miss_Morphine wrote: »

Grao wrote: »

YES! One more making his signature awesome and representative of our feelings towards @Wrobel ! Lets make this a thing, main sorcerers everywhere!!!

On a side not, of course I agree with you... It is time to level up an overpowered stamina DK and a fun magicka templar as the first is simply so damn overpowered and the second is what sorcerers should be... Good and magical >.<. Oh, and they are both actually fun to play!

Way ahead of you there, already have a Templar which I just have to respec from heals to DPS, and am working on a stam DK.

What a kick in the gut from @Wrobel - it's like he doesn't actually play any of the competitive high end content - PvE or PvP.

Nope, I don't think @Wrobel plays the game at all, it is why they need to create an advocate group for hte classes including PvPers and PvErs, but that is too much work, I guess, besides, it would require @Wrobel to be willing to listen to others...

And yes, I am leveling my lil stamina DK as well... No matter what happens to his DPS I know the class will always be the best tanks in the game, so even if the ridiculous stamina DPS gets nerfed, I will always have it for tanking.

Miss_Morphine

Resipsa131 wrote: »

TBH it won't effect VMA runs that much as I flip to back bar every 8 seconds or so to activate my boundless storm to keep up expedition. Sure its a nerf but its probably warranted for maelstrom. Frankly I think the surge changes sound a bit worse although I play console so I haven't gotten to test them myself.

Between the two nerfs, it really does affect VMA. I took a really long break because of real life business, so when I came back I went straight to vMA for the first time. Unfortunately that was right before the new patch was released. When I was able to almost get the final boss down the morning of the update, I can't even get to him after.

tplink3r1

DjKahun wrote: »

R.I.P ESO 2014 - 2016

Looks like upgrading ALL my gear to V16 Legendary with all the traits I needed are useless now as I won't be playing the sorc anymore, and it's not like I can move all of it to a templar as it's not impenetrable because the sorc had shields.. I regret doing it now I should have done all my gear on my Stamplar first then the Sorcerer.

Some classes have been ruined since launch, but now that sorcs get nerfed people say that the game died. lol.

Birdovic

Waffennacht wrote: »

andypappb16_ESO wrote: »

Its a very sad Development thats Going on, especially for me, it's been my very first character and I played it at least 1+ year, before I even tried leveling other classes.

Now that damn pale dunmer vamp sorc is standing in character selection screen naked, even took his armor and using it on my MagDK now.


But the most disappointing part is, how we, everyone in the Damn forum, every streamer and everyone have else gives so many, awesome suggestions to fix this, improve that,but it's like talking to a damn wall or to a ignorant/stubborn kid, that dislikes everything others say because it's not his own taste.

As a company, they should work to make everyone happy with their product, it's not just a personal little project.

If people ask for Hellokitty, give them Hellokitty
No damn spongebob squarepants.


When I read "explanations", why things were decided as they were(like recent Sorcerer PTS changes thread) or listen at eso live, all I can do is shaking my head, it's painful to watch this much longer. These decisions, they start to HURT, yes, I think my brain stops working to prevent serious damage from nonsense-overload.

Those are no explanations and all they do is confirming the aforementioned ignorance, by avoiding a two sided discussion as usually.

Just check my signature, I don't know if I should cry or laugh about that anymore.

To clarify: No, it doesn't feel "awesome" to be interrupted with damage higher than the received healing, while unable to do anything (channel) while we cc break and lose 40% of our Stam pool.



Rant over.

Why, Even if we do Fire it, WOULD IT FEEL AWESOME?

It's a heal! By default it only EXTENDS battle.

You know what feels awesome? An Attack!

If I remember correctly Wrobel compared Exchange with an attack? There is no heal that feels "awesome"

Any charged attack may feel awesome cuz you killed your enemy and the battle was won. No battle has been won with a time taking heal.

@Waffennacht

Sure it is just a heal. But Templars BoL also, and it's useful right? That's an ability closest to compare.

We could argue BoL also heals allies, but Exchange could be "special" by healing only the user while restoring Stam, which is useful in pvp at least. This would only be useful by increasing the heal more and removing cast time.

Or changing it to a "magicka vigor", whatever sounds better.