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Cheating in ESO

FENGRUSH
FENGRUSH
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Lots of talk - weighing in on the issue as promised on stream.

  • Delphinia
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    Thank you Fengrush.
    Agreed. Especially around min 8, "...are you really going to ban people for being reported too much?" exactly
    What's to stop anyone from just filing multiple complaints and having your friends file complaints for you as well?
    If zos would ban anyone just based on hearsay, it's ludicrous.
    I'm sure there are many players who deserve bans, but to treat a player as guilty until proven innocent is no way to do business. Entire guilds can pick a player they don't like and file mass complaints. As you mentioned around min 11:50 regarding other players accusing you.
    Perhaps they caught some real cheaters, but it sounds like a few got caught up in this witch hunt as well.



    Edited by Delphinia on May 31, 2016 4:25PM
    Never do something permanently foolish just because you are temporarily upset.
  • Rohamad_Ali
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    So , did you report the flying people seen after the initial bans ? lol
  • FENGRUSH
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    So , did you report the flying people seen after the initial bans ? lol

    Actually wasnt streaming and didnt see that person or the guy that flew by me in the dungeon. Makes it hard to report what you cant see.. :(
  • Rohamad_Ali
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    FENGRUSH wrote: »
    So , did you report the flying people seen after the initial bans ? lol

    Actually wasnt streaming and didnt see that person or the guy that flew by me in the dungeon. Makes it hard to report what you cant see.. :(

    I like you . I don't know why but your video here I got 3/4 through made some sense . I can see why people listen to your stream . Good post . New information recieved . Rethinking my initial harsh stance on the subject .
  • Rohamad_Ali
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    Zazeer's still a boob , even if a funny boob !

    I still haven't forgotten the stair case at Warden ...
  • Bfish22090
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    very well said lord

  • InvitationNotFound
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    Use the report button like an adult . Not as a grievance tool for tools .

    @Roehamad_Ali yes, that works pretty well. after filing reports several times without anything happening i simply stopped reporting as **** is going to happen. feel free to report it everyday. and still **** is going to change.

    the original Zazeer thread is here:
    https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking/p1

    a little quote
    My reaction to this was to enquire how this could have gone on for so long, how a game of this scale can get away with not having any anti-cheat software, how had this not been reported? As it turned out this issue had been reported MANY times in the past, entire demonstrations on how to do this very thing had been sent in yet no action taken, everything swept under the rug.

    anyway, you can have whatever opinion you want about Zazeer and so do I. But i don't think that should be part of this thread.

    @FENGRUSH

    well, the lord is pretty right with what he's saying.

    Imho the major issue is still that it might be possible to subtly adjust values to gain an advantage as described in the Zazeer thread.

    Thanks for the video. 15:50 reminded me of this little fellow here:
    We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
    You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
    Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober

    Addons:
    Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR
    Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
    Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR
  • Publius_Scipio
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    Satiar wrote: »
    Lyar09 wrote: »
    I feel like you hit it right on the money with people questioning other's abilities. It's bad enough that prior to this I'd get hate tells saying I'm a cheater and the shuffle exploit BS, now it's going to be a *** show.

    This will be the nail on the coffin for a lot of players on playing eso from now on. I'm even questioning whether I wanna play anymore

    It certainly won't be the same. I remember looking at some players and wondering how on earth they had crazy sustain, crazy damage, etc. I used to run through numbers and gear sets to figure it out. Now it's going to be difficult to look at those same players without suspicion.

    One of my friends set up the cheat engine on his machine to see for himself and it's honestly quite stupidly easy. When it's so so so easy to just adjust certain values to give yourself an invisible but unfair advantage, I can't blame anyone for being suspicious of people who seem to perform better than they should. Personally, It's certainly not helpful that at least one person who used to laugh at my friends to get good was permbanned in this recent wave. Just w silly state of affairs.

    They were DISHONORABLE people Steve. They could never dine at the same table of HONOR as you.
    Edited by Publius_Scipio on May 31, 2016 7:45PM
    United States of America /salute

    The Second Son of Cyrodiil
  • PainfulFAFA
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    6:15 for lols.
    @ 21:36 for the truth about eso performance, and why this game went to trash.
    Edited by PainfulFAFA on May 31, 2016 8:53PM
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  • yodased
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    31:59

    "The people that are doing it that you don't even know about, that's what I want to know"

    I stopped this game on PC because I got to a point where I could not handle the b.s. in PvP. Too many people presented themselves as 'good' and tell you the 'l2p' is the only issue.

    There will always be cheaters, but holy *** this game was stupid in allowing it. Stopping the people that did it and kept quiet about it and been dirty for 2 years will bring the game back to a level where skill actually matters.

    I mean I jumped back into the game after not playing for a year in vr14 purple gear and I could hang with people in PvP, gear and build does not make the difference that some people want to claim, it never has.
    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • Verbalinkontinenz
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    I remember..."Oh only 3 days suspendet for writs exploit. 50 alloy? worth it!"

    i see many people coming right now, who will start to test, wether zos recognizes 10% or 25% increased stats. would be interesting even for me. but on the other hand - i allready recognized from friends, that sometimes reporting is enough to get someone banned, even if he did nothing.

    zos banning politics makes me feel very helpless. i dont want anybody to get banned, just because he seemed too op for me.its like wandering on a razor edge when u decide wether someone need to get reported or not. thats ridiculous.
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  • Starshadw
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    The thing is, people have been cheating from Day One.

    And to be honest, I'm not sure ZOS can stop it - because the reason it's so easy to cheat is because the game is designed to allow add-ons. That puts holes and openings in the code that are just begging to be exploited.
  • InvitationNotFound
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    Starshadw wrote: »
    The thing is, people have been cheating from Day One.

    And to be honest, I'm not sure ZOS can stop it - because the reason it's so easy to cheat is because the game is designed to allow add-ons. That puts holes and openings in the code that are just begging to be exploited.

    oh god, one more of those posts. *sighs* sorry, but the same thing has been discussed already in many threads.

    the cheat was caused by a third party program and hasn't anything to do with add-ons.
    We want firing off Dark Exchange in the middle of combat to feel awesome... - The Wrobler
    You know you don't have to be here right? - Rich Lambert
    Verrätst du mir deinen Beruf? Ich würde auch gerne mal Annahmen dazu schreiben, wie simple die Aufgaben anderer sind. - Kai Schober

    Addons:
    Port to Friend's House: esoui DE EN FR
    Yet another Compass: esoui DE EN FR
    Group Buffs: esoui DE EN FR
  • wayfarerx
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    Starshadw wrote: »
    The thing is, people have been cheating from Day One.

    And to be honest, I'm not sure ZOS can stop it - because the reason it's so easy to cheat is because the game is designed to allow add-ons. That puts holes and openings in the code that are just begging to be exploited.

    The cheating that's been going on sucks, but addons or the existence of the addon API have exactly ZERO to do with it. The cheaters have been using a separate executable to directly modify the memory of the client while it's running. That's possible with or without addon support.
    @wayfarerx - PC / North America / Aldmeri Dominion
  • yodased
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    Starshadw wrote: »
    The thing is, people have been cheating from Day One.

    And to be honest, I'm not sure ZOS can stop it - because the reason it's so easy to cheat is because the game is designed to allow add-ons. That puts holes and openings in the code that are just begging to be exploited.

    Negative. The lua language was created as a front end scripting client only modification.

    Addons have literally nothing to do with this, unless someone figured out how to run addons on the server, in which case they are a zos employee and maybe blinxy.
    Tl;dr really weigh the fun you have in game vs the business practices you are supporting.
  • Armitas
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    39:20 came as surprise to me. (update. was sarcasm, phew)
    Edited by Armitas on May 31, 2016 11:17PM
    Retired.
    Nord mDK
  • RadioheadSh0t
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    Armitas wrote: »
    39:20 came as surprise to me.

    I'm trying to tell if he was being sarcastic there, I think he was. The following question, referring to Chief, he said "The best players in the game will always be accused of cheating after something like this" and "I'm not going to be the guy who comes out pointing fingers at people."
    Edited by RadioheadSh0t on May 31, 2016 10:51PM
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  • zyk
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    yodased wrote: »
    Starshadw wrote: »
    The thing is, people have been cheating from Day One.

    And to be honest, I'm not sure ZOS can stop it - because the reason it's so easy to cheat is because the game is designed to allow add-ons. That puts holes and openings in the code that are just begging to be exploited.

    Negative. The lua language was created as a front end scripting client only modification.

    Addons have literally nothing to do with this, unless someone figured out how to run addons on the server, in which case they are a zos employee and maybe blinxy.

    While the recent cheating controversy has nothing to do with LUA, it should be noted that it is a potential attack vector in different ways.
    Edited by zyk on May 31, 2016 10:59PM
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  • Zyle
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    The #1 thing I agree on is: ZOS needs a more active in game presence for issues like this. You can't tell me that if a GM logged on and witnessed someone cheating it wouldn't be enough to issue an immediate perma-ban.

    I hate to say it but I can do something terrible on the forums and receive a ban quicker than I can receive a ban in game for blatantly cheating like said players were.
    Edited by Zyle on May 31, 2016 11:06PM

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  • FENGRUSH
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    Armitas wrote: »
    39:20 came as surprise to me.

    I'm trying to tell if he was being sarcastic there, I think he was. The following question, referring to Chief, he said "The best players in the game will always be accused of cheating after something like this" and "I'm not going to be the guy who comes out pointing fingers at people."

    I guess if you dont watch the stream you may not know my sarcasm. It was - SypherPK was in chat and we were having some fun.
  • Sk000tch
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    Zheg wrote: »
    Armitas wrote: »
    39:20 came as surprise to me.

    I don't really watch any of his videos because, well, the fact that someone pointed out 39:20 should say it all

    I think u guys missed the joke...


    Back on topic though, do we know how many current Emps got banned? Just curious as if it was most it says a lot about the sophistication of their "anti-cheat" tools.
    Edited by Sk000tch on May 31, 2016 11:16PM
  • Reevster
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    Zyle wrote: »
    The #1 thing I agree on is: ZOS needs a more active in game presence for issues like this. You can't tell me that if a GM logged on and witnessed someone cheating it wouldn't be enough to issue an immediate perma-ban.

    I hate to say it but I can do something terrible on the forums and receive a ban quicker than I can receive a ban in game for blatantly cheating like said players were.

    Has anyone ever seen a GM online in ESO? I havent lol, I play up to 12 hpours a day at times....have not seen one yet.
  • Most_Awesome
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    The Lord has Spoken!!!!
  • Dyride
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    Reevster wrote: »
    Zyle wrote: »
    The #1 thing I agree on is: ZOS needs a more active in game presence for issues like this. You can't tell me that if a GM logged on and witnessed someone cheating it wouldn't be enough to issue an immediate perma-ban.

    I hate to say it but I can do something terrible on the forums and receive a ban quicker than I can receive a ban in game for blatantly cheating like said players were.

    Has anyone ever seen a GM online in ESO? I havent lol, I play up to 12 hpours a day at times....have not seen one yet.

    I believe that GMs are able to stay invisible. But I do agree that they should have more of an active presence to engage the community and stay on top of things.
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  • Stikato
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    Well said. This whole episode is very demoralizing.

    I sat out TG because my build basically got trashed, IC was still undeveloped, and some other gameplay and performance issues. It seemed as if some of these issues were being addressed, and I have been thinking about playing in DB.

    Now that this cheating has been exposed, it has called into question so much. Like you said, it feels like there will be this shadow of doubt that will hang over PVP and lead to a lot of frustration and acrimony. And a lot of us are busy, and don't feel like spending an evening of gaming wondering if people are cheating.
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