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Simple Fix for Cheat Engine
nk125x
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Client side app periodically checks for said app and other similar apps running. If they are close the client.
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
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Yeah, this is why this kind of detection doesn't work.
Usually the goal is to see if anything is messing with the game's allocated memory, and responding to that. Though, in these cases the last thing you want to do is simply close the client, because any system like this will generate false positives.
Worst case scenario, your antivirus wakes up for a minute, trips the anti-cheat system, and it bans you.
That said, apparently ZOS has changed their anti-cheat heuristics to lock cheat engine back out. So, we'll see how that goes.1 -
Rva_Kun✭✭✭More of these threads? Looking through forums hard confirmedActions Speak Louder Than Words.
Fear Over The Internet = Priceless.
Correcting Ego's Since 03'
NA > EU0 -
Turelus✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭It's a constant game of cat and mouse with these things.
The problem is ZOS is a very lazy cat and only reacts when the mouse is burning the house down.@Turelus - EU PC Megaserver
"Don't count on others for help. In the end each of us is in this alone. The survivors are those who know how to look out for themselves."11 -
mtwiggz✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
Yeah, this is why this kind of detection doesn't work.
Usually the goal is to see if anything is messing with the game's allocated memory, and responding to that. Though, in these cases the last thing you want to do is simply close the client, because any system like this will generate false positives.
Worst case scenario, your antivirus wakes up for a minute, trips the anti-cheat system, and it bans you.
That said, apparently ZOS has changed their anti-cheat heuristics to lock cheat engine back out. So, we'll see how that goes.
We'll see how well their updated anti-cheat code works today. As of last night I was still witnessing players flying on PC NA TF.
I'm more concerned with the subtlety players can pull off with CE than the blatant ultimate bombs and flying. The only true way to correct this is for the server side to check the client side memory occasionally on an RNG basis. This would run players stats against what said stats should be based on all factors; gear, skills, CP, buffs, etc. Although this might damper performance a bit, our performance in ESO is already quite terrible. I'd rather a bit less performance to be sure we're rid of "hackers" for good.
Someone else posted a very in depth explanation of this in a locked thread. I just pulled the basic idea from memory.3 -
InvitationNotFound✭✭✭✭✭
✭ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »
All client side anti-cheat software does that to a certain degree. I think BDO throws a warning and closes the application when starting a network sniffer
(legit tool btw. used for general network analysis and hasn't in general anything to do with cheating)
Someone else posted a very in depth explanation of this in a locked thread. I just pulled the basic idea from memory.
you mean this one here?
https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/268389/a-message-from-zazeer-hacking/p1
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OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »
Not true.....so many f2p mmos do it. Bdo does it. By agreeing to THEIR ToS, if it is in there, then you give them permission. What's so hard to understand about how that works.
Hell, Windows 10 does it to all their users.....do you see Microsoft being sued? Sure dont, know why? You agreed to let them spy on you by clicking that accept button without reading and then proceeding to install.
I explained this to you the last time you said it was illegal, it is far from illegal. The only time it is illegal is if they do it without putting it in their ToS, which most users don't read any of that......0 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're not a lawyer...
It would be trivial to make it legal in many if not most jurisdictions. Just have the ToS state that the developer has the right to scan running processes for the sole purpose of finding and dealing with actions otherwise forbidden by the ToS, namely hacking. Unless they implemented the app in a grossly inadequate way, this would not be unconscionable since there is a legitimate interest in deploying it (ESO is a business after all).1 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're not a lawyer...
It would be trivial to make it legal in many if not most jurisdictions. Just have the ToS state that the developer has the right to scan running processes for the sole purpose of finding and dealing with actions otherwise forbidden by the ToS, namely hacking. Unless they implemented the app in a grossly inadequate way, this would not be unconscionable since there is a legitimate interest in deploying it (ESO is a business after all).
Boom.....two people have explained it to you now
we agree to play the game with their terms, hence why it is called a terms of service. 0 -
ИВАН_ВОДКА✭✭✭its because game companies dont give a *** to any laws
for example there is a law in EU Union that restrict ANY kind of limit of access to internet services and games for all EU countries inside Union
but guess what? in BDO players from Estonia, Latvia and Luthiania CANNOT play on EU servers! they must play on russian servers instead lol
ofc DAUM must be sued for this
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starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »
*facepalms*
Ignoring the difference between torts and criminal law for a minute, because I can't be bothered to explain it to you.
By your logic all antivirus software is illegal.
Yeah, something about that doesn't quite make sense.2 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »its because game companies dont give a *** to any laws
No, it's because you don't understand what you're talking about.3 -
ИВАН_ВОДКА✭✭✭ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »its because game companies dont give a *** to any laws
for example there is a law in EU Union that restrict ANY kind of limit of access to internet services and games for all EU countries inside Union
but guess what? in BDO players from Estonia, Latvia and Luthiania CANNOT play on EU servers! they must play on russian servers instead lol
ofc DAUM must be sued for this
i can repeat, if you are blind0 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »its because game companies dont give a *** to any laws
for example there is a law in EU Union that restrict ANY kind of limit of access to internet services and games for all EU countries inside Union
but guess what? in BDO players from Estonia, Latvia and Luthiania CANNOT play on EU servers! they must play on russian servers instead lol
ofc DAUM must be sued for this
Pro tip: don't take your legal advice from gaming forums.2 -
OGLezard✭✭✭✭✭
✭ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »its because game companies dont give a *** to any laws
for example there is a law in EU Union that restrict ANY kind of limit of access to internet services and games for all EU countries inside Union
but guess what? in BDO players from Estonia, Latvia and Luthiania CANNOT play on EU servers! they must play on russian servers instead lol
ofc DAUM must be sued for this
i can repeat, if you are blind
If it is that big of a deal, then people would sue. When that happens, please show us until then, what you are talking about with bdo, and the other statement about spying on running processes, are two very different things. 0 -
starkerealm✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »its because game companies dont give a *** to any laws
for example there is a law in EU Union that restrict ANY kind of limit of access to internet services and games for all EU countries inside Union
but guess what? in BDO players from Estonia, Latvia and Luthiania CANNOT play on EU servers! they must play on russian servers instead lol
ofc DAUM must be sued for this
i can repeat, if you are blind
...you're talking to yourself now?
Actually, strike that. I don't want to know.0 -
earth_angel✭✭ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're not a lawyer...
It would be trivial to make it legal in many if not most jurisdictions. Just have the ToS state that the developer has the right to scan running processes for the sole purpose of finding and dealing with actions otherwise forbidden by the ToS, namely hacking. Unless they implemented the app in a grossly inadequate way, this would not be unconscionable since there is a legitimate interest in deploying it (ESO is a business after all).
I am not a lawyer but it's probably not a universally accepted solution. I guess it's highly dependant on country. Heck even the way justice work varies a lot (in France judgement is made upon "wether the judge is deeply convinced or not", meaning you need a well built list of clues and not a decisive proof ; also in France, laws are an ideal to be reached in a "reasonable time" rather than something that is strictly enforced day one like in UK).
European justice probably won't create problems to ZOS for a videogame because of time and money reasons. It's not like ZoS is making money out of spying processes so they won't care.
But Facebook and Google were condemned by european justice for collecting personnal datas (making a lot of money out of it). I don't think Microsoft had issues with that yet but european justice is already busy with microsoft on other issues like not revealing important parts of their source code back in 2012 (they were asked to pay 860 million € if I remember well the news).Edited by earth_angel on May 31, 2016 1:23PM0 -
daemonios✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭earth_angel wrote: »ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »
I'm going to go out on a limb and guess you're not a lawyer...
It would be trivial to make it legal in many if not most jurisdictions. Just have the ToS state that the developer has the right to scan running processes for the sole purpose of finding and dealing with actions otherwise forbidden by the ToS, namely hacking. Unless they implemented the app in a grossly inadequate way, this would not be unconscionable since there is a legitimate interest in deploying it (ESO is a business after all).
I am not a lawyer but it's probably not a universally accepted solution. I guess it's highly dependant on country. Heck even the way justice work varies a lot (in France judgement is made upon "wether the judge is deeply convinced or not", meaning you need a well built list of clues and not a decisive proof ; also in France, laws are an ideal to be reached in a "reasonable time" rather than something that is strictly enforced day one like in UK).
European justice probably won't create problems to ZOS for a videogame because of time and money reasons. It's not like ZoS is making money out of spying processes so they won't care.
But Facebook and Google were condemned by european justice for collecting personnal datas (making a lot of money out of it). I don't think Microsoft had issues with that yet but european justice is already busy with microsoft on other issues like not revealing important parts of their source code back in 2012 (they were asked to pay 860 million € if I remember well the news).
Do you really want to get into this? That guy was talking rubbish he probably picked up in some gaming forums. Reality isn't so simple.
Your own example is a whole different subject altogether - the problem with anti-cheat scanners would be (supposedly) the unauthorized access and use of your computer. Personal data laws require that someone be collecting data about identified or identifiable physical persons. The fact that Google and Facebook make money off of personal data is immaterial. The collection and treatment of personal data is either legal or illegal depending on the circumstances, but money isn't a consideration.
In addition, I have no recollection of actual EU sanctions against either company for breach of personal data laws. What I do know is that there is currently a debate over the possibility of transmitting personal data to processors outside the EU (namely in the USA) given the lower standards of protection for personal data in other jurisdictions.0 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭starkerealm wrote: »
Yeah, this is why this kind of detection doesn't work.
Usually the goal is to see if anything is messing with the game's allocated memory, and responding to that. Though, in these cases the last thing you want to do is simply close the client, because any system like this will generate false positives.
Worst case scenario, your antivirus wakes up for a minute, trips the anti-cheat system, and it bans you.
That said, apparently ZOS has changed their anti-cheat heuristics to lock cheat engine back out. So, we'll see how that goes.
It will be basically an evolutionary arms race - like it is with virus and anti-virus apps as well.1 -
Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭And as far as law and courts go - courts do not rule to create justice, but to enforce the law. The best advice you can get is to avoid courts and pretty much always go for a deal outside of court. Most lawyers will not tell you this, because they live from the process - a settlement agreement earns them less than a real court session.Edited by Lysette on May 31, 2016 1:41PM0 -
Khamira✭✭✭
O my gods....ИВАН_ВОДКА wrote: »for example there is a law in EU Union that restrict ANY kind of limit of access to internet services and games for all EU countries inside Union
but guess what? in BDO players from Estonia, Latvia and Luthiania CANNOT play on EU servers! they must play on russian servers instead
Who the heck CARES where and from where I play?! Lol, leave me and my 230 ping alone....Kha'jira's Scribbles - Such Blog, Many Thingies, Very Wow!0 -
Syntse✭✭✭✭✭To the people now arguing about whether anti-cheat detection programs or code is against the law or not. How do you think PunkBuster works, that is used in title as example Battlefield? Is there mass law suits against it? Yes once you install the game you are required to install PunkBuster and you agree to it. If this is not already in ESO ToS it is not hard to add it there and make you agree to it once again.Syntse Dominion Khajiit Dragonknight Stamina Tank [50]
Ra'Syntse Dominion Khajiit Nightblade Magica DPS [50]
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Friar Tuktuk Daggerfall Brenton Templar Healer [50]
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Lysette✭✭✭✭✭
✭✭✭✭✭To the people now arguing about whether anti-cheat detection programs or code is against the law or not. How do you think PunkBuster works, that is used in title as example Battlefield? Is there mass law suits against it? Yes once you install the game you are required to install PunkBuster and you agree to it. If this is not already in ESO ToS it is not hard to add it there and make you agree to it once again.
These kind of apps do not work - they hinder no one, who really wants to cheat - they are just an annoyance for legit users.0 -
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