Official Feedback Thread for Enchanting

MasterSpatula

On the bright side, I've never seen the Community so united on anything, ever.

So kudos to Zenimax on that accomplishment, at least.

ThePonzzz

MasterSpatula wrote: »

On the bright side, I've never seen the Community so united on anything, ever.

So kudos to Zenimax on that accomplishment, at least.

Enchanters got each other's best interest in mind.

Sordidfairytale

staracino_ESO wrote: »

I also want to chime in and say that blue runes need to be found in the wild. If you want to make some crazy change to enchanting:
Make all nodes contain 1 potency, 1 essence, and 1 Ta. Jejota, Denata, Rekuta, and Kuta do not drop, but you combine Ta's to upgrade them. 5 Ta = 1 Jejota, 4 Jejota = 1 Denata, 3 Denata = 1Rekuta, 2 Rekuta = 1 Kuta. That makes 120 Ta per Kuta, which seems like a fair amount to me, maybe even a little too many. But this solves the problems of people leaving behind Ta, and the current issue with blues runes needing to be bought. Although with current stockpiles floating around, this would result in a huge amount of Kutas being produced, so maybe it will be too much.

I would have around 70 Kuta LOL

Nestor wrote: »

bunnytrix wrote: »

I too have a bad feeling about this decision and would like to know why, but the fact that you can now enchant items with lower level runes is obviously tied to the potency rune removal and the price of them from vendors.

This is not as bad as it seems. For example, the Glyphs that reduce the potion cool down are the same no matter what level you make, so there is no reason to use a high end glyph for something like this.

You mean Aspect Quality right, not Glyph level, because my potion speed glyphs only affect potions that are lower level than the glyphs. e.g. a level 5 - 15 glyph won't have any effect on a level 20 potion.

And by the way, the last time I tested this out, only one glyph was working, stacking three glyphs did not get us 15 seconds like we hoped. I submitted a ticket, but I never heard anything about it.

Oh yeah, let us harvest the runes again please.

Edited, it appears that the reduction glyphs are only doing 4 seconds now.

maboleth

MasterSpatula wrote: »

On the bright side, I've never seen the Community so united on anything, ever.

So kudos to Zenimax on that accomplishment, at least.

Believe me, of all buff/nerf things they tweak and change, I've never been this discouraged in ESO than now. Maybe making everything easier comes close, but I wasn't there to witness the nerfing of all pve bosses.

This change is completely alien, unneeded and rpg-breaking, ruining perfectly sound enchantment. I only hope they will be back on their senses and know that community is overwhelmingly against it.

Agalloch

Please ZOS let the runes to be found as before ...do not change the system .

I'm sure the majority of your customers don't like this change ..

Please ZOS ..listen to the community! Don't change the rune harvesting!

Thank you in advance!

Latter

You should've given templates runes, thats my feedback, there is nothing to test at the moment because of this.

bunnytrix

Nestor wrote: »

bunnytrix wrote: »

I too have a bad feeling about this decision and would like to know why, but the fact that you can now enchant items with lower level runes is obviously tied to the potency rune removal and the price of them from vendors.

This is not as bad as it seems. For example, the Glyphs that reduce the potion cool down are the same no matter what level you make, so there is no reason to use a high end glyph for something like this.

@Nestor
It is as bad as it seems. Out of all of the hundreds of glyphs that we can craft you chose the only one that would be unaffected by this, and one that is very rarely used.
The ability to use lower level glyphs on higher level items is obviously because someone at ZOS thought that some people may not have the gold to craft max level glyphs so crafting a lower level one would be easier for them.

ZOS_GinaBruno

Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the change to Potency runes. The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

Epona222

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the change to Potency runes. The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

It's not just about the price, it's about a crafting mat no longer being able to be harvested. Keep them available via the vendor no issue with that per se, but we would like to also be able to go and harvest our own - it's a basic function of crafting that everything can be collected in the world.

bunnytrix

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the change to Potency runes. The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

Then please answer the glaring question : Why not add potency runes to a vendor in addition to being able to harvest them?
And how does a crafter "have control" if they do not have the gold to purchase the required potency rune, where before they could go out into the world and "have control" by harvesting the rune they need?

Edit 2: The frustration has nothing to do with the price and everything to do with the fact that you can no longer harvest potency runes.

ThePonzzz

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the change to Potency runes. The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

Are other crafting skills getting streamlined then? Will ore be sold at vendors? Every other crafting skill doesn't have this "ability" here.

I think the ability to put lower-level glyphs on higher-level gear was a step in the right direction. But potency is enchanting's level-based material. It still doesn't add up.

PS4_ZeColmeia

I agree the vendors having potency runes is a great convenience but it should be "in addition to" harvesting, not "instead of".

Now if you make heikijo, repora, and ithade runes able to be received by your hireling I might change my view

rootimus

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor.

The same could be achieved by having each node give up all three rune types, and keeping the current per-zone availability of potency runes. Having traders sell the potency runes as an alternative would be brilliant.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

Have you considered that fewer people enchanting might have something to do with how tediously long it takes to level up the skill to 50?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

That reads an awfully lot like: thanks for the overwhelming objection to this bad idea, but we're going to double down on doing it our way regardless.

Epona222

rootimus wrote: »

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor.

The same could be achieved by having each node give up all three rune types, and keeping the current per-zone availability of potency runes. Having traders sell the potency runes as an alternative would be brilliant.

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

Have you considered that fewer people enchanting might have something to do with how tediously long it takes to level up the skill to 50?

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

That reads an awfully lot like: thanks for the overwhelming objection to this bad idea, but we're going to double down on doing it our way regardless.

Completely agree, in reaction to the part I have highlighted in bold, most conversations I have with newish players about crafting eventually include the line "Not going to bother with enchanting though, looks as though it will take forever to level it up". This change is not going to help with that.

BlueViolet

@ZOS_GinaBruno ... the issue people seem to be taking isn't with the price of the runes. It's the fact that the potency runes are no longer able to be harvested from nodes out in the wild, so to speak.
Few to none here seem to agree with this change. We'd like to be able to harvest potency runes as normal, in addition to being able to purchase them in stores, if you really must make that kind of change.

Personally speaking, and I've seen quite a few others say it too... Enchanting is one of the hardest and most tedious tradeskills to level.
I don't think that has anything to do with having to collect runes, but rather the XP given when creating / deconstructing. Even deconstructing the highest tier enchantments made by others seems to give my level 46 enchanter pathetically little XP. Unlike armour and weapons that we're almost bombarded with from quests or drops, enchantments seem a little more scarce, thus contributing to the slow leveling.
Even finding enchantments as drops is next to useless because they are always around my character level, which gives pitiful XP - less so than the higher tier runes.

Daraugh

I hate to say it, but here goes. Evey craft has something that has an equivalency in the crown store except for enchanting until now. You can buy crown potions, food, motifs and mimic stones so that covers alchemy, provisioning and tailoring/blacksmithing. The only thing that wasn't purchasable for real money was enchantments. Now, since poisons can take the place of weapon enchantments and are purchasable in the store *and* crafting enchantments just went up a notch in difficulty to make, it's another push to the store.

Every push away from the game cheapens the game, it doesn't add value to the store. You only hurt the game as a whole by cheapening it.

BergisMacBride

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

Thanks for the reply, @ZOS_GinaBruno.

Sounds to me like the only thing you might consider changing is the pricing on the vendors and that the devs mind is made up on the harvesting changes, despite what the community thinks. We are saying keeping the vendors and reverting the harvesting changes back to the way they are on live will accomplish what you want but will preserve one of the central features of crafting, which is to be able to harvest your own materials.

Oh well, looks like I'm going to be visiting lots of guild traders today and start hoarding potencies....

themdogesbite

Never been big on crafting myself, i was always to busy slayin gplayers in Cyrodiil to look for anything to gather in the PvE zones. But i also don't understand why you would remove the option to gather your materials, it's a great way to make zones more deserted then they already are, there's no need to give everyone another reason to just stand arround in town all day long.

Mickey_Ox

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the change to Potency runes. The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

So the @zos logic to get more people taking up enchanting is to make it the only craft where you MUST SPEND gold? The change to allowing glyphs be put on gear would have been fine to start with, why remove the ability to harvest our own??

MissBizz

I am more concerned with the material not being able to be harvested than I am about the price.

I can see where you are going with the changes, but I do not enjoy this new idea of buying crafting materials.

What about giving a runestone a chance to have a potency glyph? Sure, there will be less of them, but at least we will be able to harvest them.

hiyde

I'm confused.

If the goal is to get more people to use/level enchanting, how is forcing purchase of potency rune for each glyph you want to make a solution? Now there's a hard cost associated with every glyph made. It seems to me that less people would participate.

If this is a problem that needs a solution, how about:

- Increasing the craft XP earned with each craft/decon?
- Making Potency Runes available at vendors in addition to having potency nodes in the wild?

ZoS: Please read this thread over again. The major complaint wasn't cost of the runes at vendor.
The overwhelming majority of complaints are about removing Potency Rune nodes from the wild.

Enodoc

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, [...]

No it can't. Hypothetical situation:
I've hypothetically made 40 "single harvests" from the world and I can't make one complete glyph, because I don't have any potency runes. I also don't have any gold. I wanted to sell my glyphs to other players to make gold, but now I can't even create them. Previously, I could have made 13 glyphs from those 40 harvests, and a bit of gold on top. Now I can't do that. No more enchanting for me, it's no longer fun or viable.

The closest comparative to this is Alchemy, and you can pretty much make a direct analogue. To make a complete potion, you have to have two reagents and a solvent. This is at least three "single harvests"; one for the solvent (potion "potency") and two for reagents (the "essence" of a potion); a fourth single harvest is required to increase the potion "aspect". Alchemy waters can already be purchased from vendors, but you'd get the same uproar from the alchemists if you removed the water skins and pure water sources from the world. It's great that both Aspect and Essence (the required "reagents") now come together, but please give us back a source for our required "solvents" (Potency), just like we can harvest water (and now, oil).

This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

I don't think that will happen. Many enchanters have already said both here and elsewhere that they are likely to participate less in the enchanting system if they can no longer gather all their materials easily, and for free.

myrrrorb14_ESO

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

Thanks to everyone for your feedback on the change to Potency runes. The adjustments to runestone harvestables were made to streamline the process of gathering the necessary materials to craft glyphs. These changes ensure that every single harvest can translate into a completed glyph, with the crafter having control over which level (and polarity) of glyph is created by way of purchasing the desired potency runestone from the vendor. This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills.

That said, we understand there’s also some frustration over the price of these. We’re keeping an eye on feedback and metrics, and will adjust as needed.

I appreciate an official response even though I do not understand the reason. So thank you for that.

Not sure how this accomplishes the goal though. While you technically can create a rune with every harvest, most of the time you won't. There is a ton of Essence runes so the probability of getting the right one is not good and aspect runes... Ta are good for crafting, but you want better for crafting your own stuff.

The method on live seems pretty good. The ratio of Essence / aspect / potency is pretty good. Maybe a few more nodes, but overall nice.

Making the nodes multi-functional is neat. Maybe add a chance to drop a potency. The addition of stones for sale is also very nice.

I believe the issue with participation is how long it takes to level it up compared to everything else. People like instant gratification. And of course there is always skill points and trying to decide if it's worth it. Or just ask a buddy to make it for you. Perhaps adding passives that increased the effectiveness of glyphs would help?

Caroloces

I'll second (or third, or fourth, and so on) the opinions expressed here that the price of the potency rune is not the issue. The issue is the degree of immersion that is explicitly lost when these items can't be found out in the wild. Every element of the game that is made an exclusively marketable item contributes to the gradual erosion of the game's most important quality: its transcendent immersion into the world of the Elder Scrolls.

By all means, offer the runes as a vendor item if you believe that will help new players participate and elevate this crafting medium, but still keep it in the wild for those of us who truly love the hunt, the exploration, and the reward of finding materials in this beautiful world.

Panth141

MissBizz wrote: »

I am more concerned with the material not being able to be harvested than I am about the price.

I can see where you are going with the changes, but I do not enjoy this new idea of buying crafting materials.

What about giving a runestone a chance to have a potency glyph? Sure, there will be less of them, but at least we will be able to harvest them.

Absolutely this.

One node giving an Essence and Aspect is unlikely to give the exact stones you need for the glyph you want to make, so you have to harvest many. From this I can understand (against my previous post, yes) why it may be a bad idea for every node to also drop a potency rune, given that with node scaling there's a 50% chance you'd get the potency you needed from any runestone (positive/negative potency runes). However, if you make it say, a 30% chance that each runestone will also drop a potency rune, then you'd have to farm 5-8 nodes to get the potency you needed.

I actually really like the double dropping runes - I think that we need to separate that change (which I like) from the inability to gather potency runes (which I don't like).

In a perfect world, I'd like a combination of the multi-rune nodes AND farmable potency runes.

RocDonald

I don't know why they're changing anything, they literally just fixed it (with node scaling in Wrothgar, Hew's Bane, etc.) Also, why would I want to put a low level enchantment on my high level gear? If anything, I would rather put a high level enchantment on my lower level gear. That would at least make using certain gear sets more viable. I swear, some of the ideas ZoS comes up with were just drawn out of a hat lol.

Daraugh

In light of poison based weapon enchants being much more difficult to craft now and easily obtainable in the crown store, werewolves should check and see if they have increased stam regen without slotting the ultimate (by *accident*) and see if they also take more poison damage in or out of wolf form. There's just to many odd changes that nobody asked for going on here for me to not get out my tinfoil hat.

bunnytrix

"This change, combined with the increased weapon glyph power and the ability to apply lower level glyphs to higher level pieces of equipment is to encourage additional participation with the CROWN STORE, which has been found to be significantly lower than other tradeskills."

Changed that for you. Let's have the real reason for removing potency runes from the world out for us all to discuss.

The_Lex

@ZOS_GinaBruno
If you have to change anything, increase the amount of inspiration received from deconning a glyph. Less people are involved in enchanting because it takes a disproportionate amount of time to level this craft when comapred to the other crafts. It's such a unnecessarily slow leveling process. Because of this, many people are willing to "throw in the towel" on this skill in lieu of buying glyphs from others (especially higher leveled players) as they acquire the funds.

By making potency runes only available for purchase, new, low level players may not be encouraged to enchant since they are trying to balance and maintain their gold acquisitions. For them, finding a Ta is much better than buying one, especially when trying to decide if it's more worth their while to purchase gear/weapons instead.

BergisMacBride

ZOS_GinaBruno wrote: »

This change... is to encourage additional participation with the enchanting system...

This does nothing to increase the playerbase participation in enchanting. Keeping runestone harvesting as is (or also allow potencies to drop from the new runestones) along with a vendor selling them would be a much better solution. That, and making enchanting easier to level....

@ZOS_GinaBruno, the question I (and many others here) want answered is:

With all these changes, why do the devs feel it is necessary to remove potency runestone harvesting from the game?