Would You Buy Another ZOS Game?

Villious

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

Genomic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

reften wrote: »

So let me get this straight, you're on the forums of a game, making comments...it's been out for two years now, you're still playing.

but yet you hate the company so much that built this game you'll NEVER buy another game from them again.

*eye roll

Yeah ESO makes me grumble sometimes, but in the end, best PvP experience I've ever had with a game in a genre that I love. You no votes aren't being honest.

Some of us still play for one simple reason....lack of better options. We have played many others, spent our time there, and are done. Some of us are here simply killing time until a better option is released. When that happens, I think you'll see the impact.

This game has amazing potential, but I truly don't think it will ever be completely realized with the current dev team. It seems it's always one step forward, three steps back. When another "successful" MMO is released, we'll see where the rubber meets the road.

I've enjoyed playing ESO, but with a lot of frustration. More than any other MMO, and I started playing MMOs back in March of 1999 when the original Everquest was released, and I've played quite a few of them. So please don't be arrogant enough to presume to say who's not being honest.

So...

RIFT, FFXIV: ARR, LotRO, SWtOR, GW2... none of those are better options than ESO?

How then can ESO be such a disaster that, not only are you still playing it, but it's still "better" than any other MMO on the market right now?

The truthful answer is simple.

ESO is one of the best MMO's on the market right now. However; the game has made changes that are not specifically the changes that you might have made, so you're posting out of misplaced frustration.

I'm 50 years old. I started playing MMO's 17 years ago in March of 1999 when the original Everquest was released. Even before then, I played Ultima Online for almost a year, so I guess that gives me almost 18 years of MMOing. How long have you been playing MMO's?

Rift - played it
Dark Age of Camelot - Played it
FFXIV - Dont like the franchise
ARR - Not sure what that is.
LotRO - Played it, but really didnt like the LOTR atmosphere
SWTOR - Played it
GW2 - Played it, was disappointed with the expansion
Everquest - played it for 6 years
WoW - Played it
TERA - Played it
BDO - Not interested
ArchAge - Messed with it a little, and my buddies and I are actually contemplating going to that now.

What else you got?

My friends and I play MMO's together. We've been playing ESO for about 5 months, and are already tired of the bugs, laggyness of the game in general, devs unable to fix bugs, inability to fix broken mechanics for years, making only male armor wireframes now because its easier to do, devs pretty much patching and balancing once per quarter or less, devs using primary focus to crank out DLCs and crown store items for sale, the list goes on and on and on. I will say that ESO has the best quest lines that I've ever played in MMO's, so kudos to them for that.

You're the very definition of white knight. No matter what happens, you'll defend it with your dying breath, and tell other players how wrong they are and how they feel, when you have not a clue, and are extremely arrogant to even presume saying such things. You keep saying that I think ESO is the best MMO on the market right now, but I've said no such thing. We've played it heavy for 5 months, and are already getting ready to move on for various reasons stated above. We played GW2 for 2 years. WoW for 6 years. The lesser titles for much less time. If another good AAA MMO had been released sooner, we'd be gone now. We unsubbed from ESO two days ago. No more money for them.

You're arrogant enough to lecture me that my (our) unhappiness is "misplaced frustration". Keep on fighting the good fight Sir Knight. They definitely need players like you.

I've heard mixed, but generally positive things about Black Desert Online. I play ESO because I love the Elder Scrolls lore, but I agree with most here that ZOS has done a very poor job overall. BDO doesn't have the ES lore, but by all accounts it's a far better MMO. It might be what you're looking for.

By all accounts? Whos? I play BDO and its a fun game to play. Its nothing like ESO tho. So comparing the two would be like comparing ESo to games like call of duty or the division. BDO is a sandbox box game. No quests to do. You level up by grinding mobs. Once you hit a certain level you can also be attacked at any time by other players. So while yes it is a fun game calling it "better" is a stretch. Since thats all opinion.

Oh and btw there are the same complaints there as here. PVP isnt balanced. Lag. Classes arent balanced. Lag again.

He said he was becoming tired of ESO and was considering Archeage as a new home. I was merely suggesting an alternative. You agree BDO is fun to play, but has its own issues, like ESO. But as you also mention, BDO is sandbox and ESO is themepark, so perhaps that's the kind of difference Villious was looking for? A change is as good as a holiday? Anyhow, as I said, it was just a suggestion, based on reviews from sources I trusted.

I did take a look at BDO, and as I understand it, it's an open world pvp once you hit 50. Now I'm not crazy about that, but might would try it if not for two things.....you loose experience, and pk'er can take items off you. That's a deal breaker for me.

The last MMO I played where you lost XP, and actually went backwards sometimes, was Everquest. While I have oh so very fond memories of Everquest (right @Uriel_Nocturne ?), I don't want to do the backwards XP boogie ever again.

I think it's gonna be quite a while before we really see any good new AAA titles released. At least ones I'd be interested in playing. But I'll keep a weathered eye on the horizon. :-)

ContraTempo

Not done with this one.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

Villious wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

reften wrote: »

So let me get this straight, you're on the forums of a game, making comments...it's been out for two years now, you're still playing.

but yet you hate the company so much that built this game you'll NEVER buy another game from them again.

*eye roll

Yeah ESO makes me grumble sometimes, but in the end, best PvP experience I've ever had with a game in a genre that I love. You no votes aren't being honest.

Some of us still play for one simple reason....lack of better options. We have played many others, spent our time there, and are done. Some of us are here simply killing time until a better option is released. When that happens, I think you'll see the impact.

This game has amazing potential, but I truly don't think it will ever be completely realized with the current dev team. It seems it's always one step forward, three steps back. When another "successful" MMO is released, we'll see where the rubber meets the road.

I've enjoyed playing ESO, but with a lot of frustration. More than any other MMO, and I started playing MMOs back in March of 1999 when the original Everquest was released, and I've played quite a few of them. So please don't be arrogant enough to presume to say who's not being honest.

So...

RIFT, FFXIV: ARR, LotRO, SWtOR, GW2... none of those are better options than ESO?

How then can ESO be such a disaster that, not only are you still playing it, but it's still "better" than any other MMO on the market right now?

The truthful answer is simple.

ESO is one of the best MMO's on the market right now. However; the game has made changes that are not specifically the changes that you might have made, so you're posting out of misplaced frustration.

I'm 50 years old. I started playing MMO's 17 years ago in March of 1999 when the original Everquest was released. Even before then, I played Ultima Online for almost a year, so I guess that gives me almost 18 years of MMOing. How long have you been playing MMO's?

Rift - played it
Dark Age of Camelot - Played it
FFXIV - Dont like the franchise
ARR - Not sure what that is.
LotRO - Played it, but really didnt like the LOTR atmosphere
SWTOR - Played it
GW2 - Played it, was disappointed with the expansion
Everquest - played it for 6 years
WoW - Played it
TERA - Played it
BDO - Not interested
ArchAge - Messed with it a little, and my buddies and I are actually contemplating going to that now.

What else you got?

My friends and I play MMO's together. We've been playing ESO for about 5 months, and are already tired of the bugs, laggyness of the game in general, devs unable to fix bugs, inability to fix broken mechanics for years, making only male armor wireframes now because its easier to do, devs pretty much patching and balancing once per quarter or less, devs using primary focus to crank out DLCs and crown store items for sale, the list goes on and on and on. I will say that ESO has the best quest lines that I've ever played in MMO's, so kudos to them for that.

You're the very definition of white knight. No matter what happens, you'll defend it with your dying breath, and tell other players how wrong they are and how they feel, when you have not a clue, and are extremely arrogant to even presume saying such things. You keep saying that I think ESO is the best MMO on the market right now, but I've said no such thing. We've played it heavy for 5 months, and are already getting ready to move on for various reasons stated above. We played GW2 for 2 years. WoW for 6 years. The lesser titles for much less time. If another good AAA MMO had been released sooner, we'd be gone now. We unsubbed from ESO two days ago. No more money for them.

You're arrogant enough to lecture me that my (our) unhappiness is "misplaced frustration". Keep on fighting the good fight Sir Knight. They definitely need players like you.

I've heard mixed, but generally positive things about Black Desert Online. I play ESO because I love the Elder Scrolls lore, but I agree with most here that ZOS has done a very poor job overall. BDO doesn't have the ES lore, but by all accounts it's a far better MMO. It might be what you're looking for.

By all accounts? Whos? I play BDO and its a fun game to play. Its nothing like ESO tho. So comparing the two would be like comparing ESo to games like call of duty or the division. BDO is a sandbox box game. No quests to do. You level up by grinding mobs. Once you hit a certain level you can also be attacked at any time by other players. So while yes it is a fun game calling it "better" is a stretch. Since thats all opinion.

Oh and btw there are the same complaints there as here. PVP isnt balanced. Lag. Classes arent balanced. Lag again.

He said he was becoming tired of ESO and was considering Archeage as a new home. I was merely suggesting an alternative. You agree BDO is fun to play, but has its own issues, like ESO. But as you also mention, BDO is sandbox and ESO is themepark, so perhaps that's the kind of difference Villious was looking for? A change is as good as a holiday? Anyhow, as I said, it was just a suggestion, based on reviews from sources I trusted.

I did take a look at BDO, and as I understand it, it's an open world pvp once you hit 50. Now I'm not crazy about that, but might would try it if not for two things.....you loose experience, and pk'er can take items off you. That's a deal breaker for me.

The last MMO I played where you lost XP, and actually went backwards sometimes, was Everquest. While I have oh so very fond memories of Everquest (right @Uriel_Nocturne ?), I don't want to do the backwards XP boogie ever again.

I think it's gonna be quite a while before we really see any good new AAA titles released. At least ones I'd be interested in playing. But I'll keep a weathered eye on the horizon. :-)

In BDO you lose xp everytime you die for any reason. There are severe penalties for player killing tho. So its not as rampant as you would think.

Elsonso

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

JamilaRaj wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I have $100 put up specifically for a fallout mmo collectors edition. please ZOS take my money.

Fallout MMORPG is not going happen. Bethesda fought hard at court with Interplay to stop it from making it.

That was to stop Interplay from making the MMO, not to prevent an MMO from ever being made.

My take on this is that Bethesda moved to stop Fallout Online because they wanted control over the production of any Fallout MMO. When they decide to make it, ZOS is likely the company that will be tasked with doing it.

This all transpired about 2 years after ZOS was formed, during the early years of ESO production. This makes it plausible that Fallout Online is, in fact, one of the unannounced projects that ZOS might be working on.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

Zenimax was forced to pay Interplay 2 million dollars. In return Interplay was forced to turn over all material related to fallout online. I personally believe they are working on a fallout mmo as we speak. At least I hope so

Tommy1979AtWar

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

lordrichter wrote: »

JamilaRaj wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

I have $100 put up specifically for a fallout mmo collectors edition. please ZOS take my money.

Fallout MMORPG is not going happen. Bethesda fought hard at court with Interplay to stop it from making it.

That was to stop Interplay from making the MMO, not to prevent an MMO from ever being made.

My take on this is that Bethesda moved to stop Fallout Online because they wanted control over the production of any Fallout MMO. When they decide to make it, ZOS is likely the company that will be tasked with doing it.

This all transpired about 2 years after ZOS was formed, during the early years of ESO production. This makes it plausible that Fallout Online is, in fact, one of the unannounced projects that ZOS might be working on.

Honestly I hope they're not a part of it but I also know it's a huge possibility that they will be, I'm gonna be gutted if they ruin another of my favourite series, I definitely won't be buying it if they are.
Bugs galore and a bottlecap store.... no thanks.

charley222

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Amount of people voted on the poll 505.

Amount of people who bought the game just in Feb: 100,000.

you are so annoying it your no sense comment blind fan boy , you dont have 1 user agree it you wake up oO

poll show 317 player are disappointed after buy vs 199

mean over 60% disappointed after buy . so many user dont go on the forum and just dont play the game anymore
i got 2 guild of 500 player all dead i already shoW the link before

for my part eso are good for casual player who dont have big knowledge on gaming , because the gameplay and combat dont go very deep . is only about spaming 1 skill . i buy the game to my little cousin and get boring after 10 day because bug and lag and quest fail for party

Elsonso

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

charley222 wrote: »

poll show 317 player are disappointed after buy vs 199

I am pretty sure that is not what the poll says, actually. As you can see, I said "No", but it is not because I am disappointed with my purchase of ESO. They need to make ESO right, and keep working on it until they do. If they decide that "good enough" is better than "excellent" and wander off to work on a new MMO, that starts a trend. Why invest in a new game that I already know will never be better than "good enough"?

I can be perfectly happy playing ESO, and even subscribe to ESO Plus and purchase Crowns, and still know that I won't buy a second game from them unless they prove that they can actually get the first one right.

DragonSamurai360

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

If it happens to be a Strategy MMO in either the Doom, Fallout, or Elder Scrolls franchise that would be SUPER cool and I would probably pre-order it in a heartbeat as long as it's on console as well, as that's my primary platform area right now. If it's an RPG MMO like ESO is I would probably buy it if there was quests and so forth that you could do by yourself if you wanted to. That's the main reason why I like ESO so much, you could quest and so forth by yourself if you wanted to, and don't have to be social or join guilds if you don't want to, thus playing it in a manner similar to a single player game.

JDar

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

I don't think Zenimax is planning on making any other MMO's, because they'd be competing with themselves, but the only other IP they have that is worthy is Fallout, and I think that is legally not possible for them to do.

They could always create a new IP but that doesn't seem to be how Zenimax does things. They'd probably just buy something from someone else.

If they did though, they surely would have improved at making games of this nature. Surely lol.

iam117

charley222 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Amount of people voted on the poll 505.

Amount of people who bought the game just in Feb: 100,000.

you are so annoying it your no sense comment blind fan boy , you dont have 1 user agree it you wake up oO

poll show 317 player are disappointed after buy vs 199

mean over 60% disappointed after buy . so many user dont go on the forum and just dont play the game anymore
i got 2 guild of 500 player all dead i already shoW the link before

for my part eso are good for casual player who dont have big knowledge on gaming , because the gameplay and combat dont go very deep . is only about spaming 1 skill . i buy the game to my little cousin and get boring after 10 day because bug and lag and quest fail for party

What one skill do you spame to win it all? Just curious about this OP build you speak of. Guilds come and go based on alot more than game disapproval. I suppose you could be strictly pvp. Have your tried dueling? Lot more to it than 1 skill. But pve? Name in game? I'm sure your still top of the leaderboards cause its super easy?

Uviryth

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

Why wouldn`t I? ESO is a good game after all.

Ch4mpTW

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

Uviryth wrote: »

Why wouldn`t I? ESO is a good game after all.

Hm... Interesting. To each's own, I suppose.

jcasini222ub17_ESO

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

Ive always fancied a fallout mmo but Ive never understand how itd work. Like I'm looking out with my binoculars, see another human player, take absurdly long iron sight shot, pop players head off (like one shot kills?), get pumped to go loot body. Arrive to find body was looted by another wastelander begin chase.

What I just wrote sounds to me like a pretty awesome wasterlander experiance- however it involes open world PvP, corpse looting, looting the corpse of not even your own kill... I just dont see the 'natural danger' of fallout wasteland translate over well to mmo without big sacrifices to the fallout experiance. Like the need to drink/eat/rad poisioning etc etc.

Miwerton

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

jcasini222ub17_ESO wrote: »

Ive always fancied a fallout mmo but Ive never understand how itd work. Like I'm looking out with my binoculars, see another human player, take absurdly long iron sight shot, pop players head off (like one shot kills?), get pumped to go loot body. Arrive to find body was looted by another wastelander begin chase.

What I just wrote sounds to me like a pretty awesome wasterlander experiance- however it inovles open world PvP, corpse looting, looting the corpse of not even your own kill... I just dont see the 'natural danger' of fallout wasteland translate over well to mmo without big sacrifices to the fallout experiance. Like the need to drink/eat/rad poisioning etc etc.

True, the only close to good would something similar that was done in Skyrim with modding, making a co-op lan mod. As for balances and the general survival and scarcetity of supplies, would be quite off, since fallout doesnt hand you ammo from kills like borderlands forexample, and the survival would mostly likely be put out to placate those who think its hard, and the bugs would be like the 10mm pistol sigth bug times 50

NordJitsu

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Amount of people voted on the poll 505.

Amount of people who bought the game just in Feb: 100,000.

Not sure of the point of your post, are you saying that those 100,000 players are all happy with their purchase or that given 6 months or so 60% of them will be dissatisfied with zos?

Because 60,000 disatisfied customers isn't really what zenimax or its investors are aiming for I'm sure.

I think the point is you cant say anything with such a small sampling considering not even one tenth of one percent of people who even made a forum account bothered to vote and 40% of them voted opposite. Just not very scientific is the point. Also seems like if there were that many dissatisfied customers just since feb we would see some indication of it on the forums as well.

Market research polls mustn't be very accurate either then... hmm I wonder why corporations both large and small continue to use them with samplings of as little as 100 customers.
Perhaps you know, you seem to be quite the "authority" on every topic in almost every thread so please... enlighten us.

With respect neither of you knows what you're talking about.

Market research polls (like political polls) are extremely accurate because participants are randomly selected. Random selection allows you to get whats known as a representative sample (every person has an equal chance to be selected so the make up of the sample is a reflection of the breadth and depth of public opinion.)

The sample size is not nearly as important as most people think. What matters more is polling methodology. So a random sample of 1,000 participants is able to accurately predict the election results for a country of 320 million people. A poll of 300,000 people which was not randomly selected (say people got to elect themselves to be participants or say we took all our participants from one city) would be less accurate than the 1,000 person sample which was randomly selected.

And for that reason, forum polls are difficult to draw any kind of meaningful results from. The participants are self selected, not random, and they likely have different characteristics than the player base overall. For example, dissatisfied players may be more likely to be on the forum rather than in the game. Or they might be more into gaming in general, which means they have different preferences.

A forum poll tells you what some slice of your player base thinks, but unless you have good data analytics to weight their responses according to their differences with the overall player base, it cannot tell you much about the player base overall.

Now, since both of you are talking out of your other ends and this has essentially devolved into a monkey poo flinging contest, can we get back to the topic of whether ZOS is a worthy studio?

Edit:

just so you know I'm not BSing you, I have a Masters Degree in Politcal Science, have worked on campaigns and performed polls, and currently work as a data analytics consultant.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

charley222 wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Amount of people voted on the poll 505.

Amount of people who bought the game just in Feb: 100,000.

you are so annoying it your no sense comment blind fan boy , you dont have 1 user agree it you wake up oO

poll show 317 player are disappointed after buy vs 199

mean over 60% disappointed after buy . so many user dont go on the forum and just dont play the game anymore
i got 2 guild of 500 player all dead i already shoW the link before

for my part eso are good for casual player who dont have big knowledge on gaming , because the gameplay and combat dont go very deep . is only about spaming 1 skill . i buy the game to my little cousin and get boring after 10 day because bug and lag and quest fail for party

No it only means 60% of the people asked are disppointed. Obviously on the forums there are more disgruntled people than happy people. hence why I said its not very scientific. Also I have it seems from the poll 199 people just on the forums who agree they would buy another zos game.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

NordJitsu wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Amount of people voted on the poll 505.

Amount of people who bought the game just in Feb: 100,000.

Not sure of the point of your post, are you saying that those 100,000 players are all happy with their purchase or that given 6 months or so 60% of them will be dissatisfied with zos?

Because 60,000 disatisfied customers isn't really what zenimax or its investors are aiming for I'm sure.

I think the point is you cant say anything with such a small sampling considering not even one tenth of one percent of people who even made a forum account bothered to vote and 40% of them voted opposite. Just not very scientific is the point. Also seems like if there were that many dissatisfied customers just since feb we would see some indication of it on the forums as well.

Market research polls mustn't be very accurate either then... hmm I wonder why corporations both large and small continue to use them with samplings of as little as 100 customers.
Perhaps you know, you seem to be quite the "authority" on every topic in almost every thread so please... enlighten us.

With respect neither of you knows what you're talking about.

Market research polls (like political polls) are extremely accurate because participants are randomly selected. Random selection allows you to get whats known as a representative sample (every person has an equal chance to be selected so the make up of the sample is a reflection of the breadth and depth of public opinion.)

The sample size is not nearly as important as most people think. What matters more is polling methodology. So a random sample of 1,000 participants is able to accurately predict the election results for a country of 320 million people. A poll of 300,000 people which was not randomly selected (say people got to elect themselves to be participants or say we took all our participants from one city) would be less accurate than the 1,000 person sample which was randomly selected.

And for that reason, forum polls are difficult to draw any kind of meaningful results from. The participants are self selected, not random, and they likely have different characteristics than the player base overall. For example, dissatisfied players may be more likely to be on the forum rather than in the game. Or they might be more into gaming in general, which means they have different preferences.

A forum poll tells you what some slice of your player base thinks, but unless you have good data analytics to weight their responses according to their differences with the overall player base, it cannot tell you much about the player base overall.

Now, since both of you are talking out of your other ends and this has essentially devolved into a monkey poo flinging contest, can we get back to the topic of whether ZOS is a worthy studio?

Edit:

just so you know I'm not BSing you, I have a Masters Degree in Politcal Science, have worked on campaigns and performed polls, and currently work as a data analytics consultant.

I dont have any idea what you are talking about. Very clearly this poll means absolutely nothing. I worked for gallup for years doing polls. This small sampling of a select group of people means nothing. Its like asking the choir what they think of Jesus.

NordJitsu

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Amount of people voted on the poll 505.

Amount of people who bought the game just in Feb: 100,000.

Not sure of the point of your post, are you saying that those 100,000 players are all happy with their purchase or that given 6 months or so 60% of them will be dissatisfied with zos?

Because 60,000 disatisfied customers isn't really what zenimax or its investors are aiming for I'm sure.

I think the point is you cant say anything with such a small sampling considering not even one tenth of one percent of people who even made a forum account bothered to vote and 40% of them voted opposite. Just not very scientific is the point. Also seems like if there were that many dissatisfied customers just since feb we would see some indication of it on the forums as well.

Market research polls mustn't be very accurate either then... hmm I wonder why corporations both large and small continue to use them with samplings of as little as 100 customers.
Perhaps you know, you seem to be quite the "authority" on every topic in almost every thread so please... enlighten us.

With respect neither of you knows what you're talking about.

Market research polls (like political polls) are extremely accurate because participants are randomly selected. Random selection allows you to get whats known as a representative sample (every person has an equal chance to be selected so the make up of the sample is a reflection of the breadth and depth of public opinion.)

The sample size is not nearly as important as most people think. What matters more is polling methodology. So a random sample of 1,000 participants is able to accurately predict the election results for a country of 320 million people. A poll of 300,000 people which was not randomly selected (say people got to elect themselves to be participants or say we took all our participants from one city) would be less accurate than the 1,000 person sample which was randomly selected.

And for that reason, forum polls are difficult to draw any kind of meaningful results from. The participants are self selected, not random, and they likely have different characteristics than the player base overall. For example, dissatisfied players may be more likely to be on the forum rather than in the game. Or they might be more into gaming in general, which means they have different preferences.

A forum poll tells you what some slice of your player base thinks, but unless you have good data analytics to weight their responses according to their differences with the overall player base, it cannot tell you much about the player base overall.

Now, since both of you are talking out of your other ends and this has essentially devolved into a monkey poo flinging contest, can we get back to the topic of whether ZOS is a worthy studio?

Edit:

just so you know I'm not BSing you, I have a Masters Degree in Politcal Science, have worked on campaigns and performed polls, and currently work as a data analytics consultant.

I dont have any idea what you are talking about.

That's because you apparently did not read any of my post.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

NordJitsu wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Amount of people voted on the poll 505.

Amount of people who bought the game just in Feb: 100,000.

Not sure of the point of your post, are you saying that those 100,000 players are all happy with their purchase or that given 6 months or so 60% of them will be dissatisfied with zos?

Because 60,000 disatisfied customers isn't really what zenimax or its investors are aiming for I'm sure.

I think the point is you cant say anything with such a small sampling considering not even one tenth of one percent of people who even made a forum account bothered to vote and 40% of them voted opposite. Just not very scientific is the point. Also seems like if there were that many dissatisfied customers just since feb we would see some indication of it on the forums as well.

Market research polls mustn't be very accurate either then... hmm I wonder why corporations both large and small continue to use them with samplings of as little as 100 customers.
Perhaps you know, you seem to be quite the "authority" on every topic in almost every thread so please... enlighten us.

With respect neither of you knows what you're talking about.

Market research polls (like political polls) are extremely accurate because participants are randomly selected. Random selection allows you to get whats known as a representative sample (every person has an equal chance to be selected so the make up of the sample is a reflection of the breadth and depth of public opinion.)

The sample size is not nearly as important as most people think. What matters more is polling methodology. So a random sample of 1,000 participants is able to accurately predict the election results for a country of 320 million people. A poll of 300,000 people which was not randomly selected (say people got to elect themselves to be participants or say we took all our participants from one city) would be less accurate than the 1,000 person sample which was randomly selected.

And for that reason, forum polls are difficult to draw any kind of meaningful results from. The participants are self selected, not random, and they likely have different characteristics than the player base overall. For example, dissatisfied players may be more likely to be on the forum rather than in the game. Or they might be more into gaming in general, which means they have different preferences.

A forum poll tells you what some slice of your player base thinks, but unless you have good data analytics to weight their responses according to their differences with the overall player base, it cannot tell you much about the player base overall.

Now, since both of you are talking out of your other ends and this has essentially devolved into a monkey poo flinging contest, can we get back to the topic of whether ZOS is a worthy studio?

Edit:

just so you know I'm not BSing you, I have a Masters Degree in Politcal Science, have worked on campaigns and performed polls, and currently work as a data analytics consultant.

I dont have any idea what you are talking about.

That's because you apparently did not read any of my post.

I did read it.

Farorin

Maybe? Depends on the game. I would definately consider it. They aren't a terrible company or anything, especially compared to other gaming companies.

Zyle

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Amount of people voted on the poll 505.

Amount of people who bought the game just in Feb: 100,000.

Not sure of the point of your post, are you saying that those 100,000 players are all happy with their purchase or that given 6 months or so 60% of them will be dissatisfied with zos?

Because 60,000 disatisfied customers isn't really what zenimax or its investors are aiming for I'm sure.

I think the point is you cant say anything with such a small sampling considering not even one tenth of one percent of people who even made a forum account bothered to vote and 40% of them voted opposite. Just not very scientific is the point. Also seems like if there were that many dissatisfied customers just since feb we would see some indication of it on the forums as well.

Market research polls mustn't be very accurate either then... hmm I wonder why corporations both large and small continue to use them with samplings of as little as 100 customers.
Perhaps you know, you seem to be quite the "authority" on every topic in almost every thread so please... enlighten us.

With respect neither of you knows what you're talking about.

Market research polls (like political polls) are extremely accurate because participants are randomly selected. Random selection allows you to get whats known as a representative sample (every person has an equal chance to be selected so the make up of the sample is a reflection of the breadth and depth of public opinion.)

The sample size is not nearly as important as most people think. What matters more is polling methodology. So a random sample of 1,000 participants is able to accurately predict the election results for a country of 320 million people. A poll of 300,000 people which was not randomly selected (say people got to elect themselves to be participants or say we took all our participants from one city) would be less accurate than the 1,000 person sample which was randomly selected.

And for that reason, forum polls are difficult to draw any kind of meaningful results from. The participants are self selected, not random, and they likely have different characteristics than the player base overall. For example, dissatisfied players may be more likely to be on the forum rather than in the game. Or they might be more into gaming in general, which means they have different preferences.

A forum poll tells you what some slice of your player base thinks, but unless you have good data analytics to weight their responses according to their differences with the overall player base, it cannot tell you much about the player base overall.

Now, since both of you are talking out of your other ends and this has essentially devolved into a monkey poo flinging contest, can we get back to the topic of whether ZOS is a worthy studio?

Edit:

just so you know I'm not BSing you, I have a Masters Degree in Politcal Science, have worked on campaigns and performed polls, and currently work as a data analytics consultant.

I dont have any idea what you are talking about. Very clearly this poll means absolutely nothing. I worked for gallup for years doing polls. This small sampling of a select group of people means nothing. Its like asking the choir what they think of Jesus.

How can it mean nothing when you yourself just said it means 60% of the people asked in this thread are disappointed with the studio? In my mind it means 60% of the people asked in this thread are disappointed with ZOS.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

Zyle wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Amount of people voted on the poll 505.

Amount of people who bought the game just in Feb: 100,000.

Not sure of the point of your post, are you saying that those 100,000 players are all happy with their purchase or that given 6 months or so 60% of them will be dissatisfied with zos?

Because 60,000 disatisfied customers isn't really what zenimax or its investors are aiming for I'm sure.

I think the point is you cant say anything with such a small sampling considering not even one tenth of one percent of people who even made a forum account bothered to vote and 40% of them voted opposite. Just not very scientific is the point. Also seems like if there were that many dissatisfied customers just since feb we would see some indication of it on the forums as well.

Market research polls mustn't be very accurate either then... hmm I wonder why corporations both large and small continue to use them with samplings of as little as 100 customers.
Perhaps you know, you seem to be quite the "authority" on every topic in almost every thread so please... enlighten us.

With respect neither of you knows what you're talking about.

Market research polls (like political polls) are extremely accurate because participants are randomly selected. Random selection allows you to get whats known as a representative sample (every person has an equal chance to be selected so the make up of the sample is a reflection of the breadth and depth of public opinion.)

The sample size is not nearly as important as most people think. What matters more is polling methodology. So a random sample of 1,000 participants is able to accurately predict the election results for a country of 320 million people. A poll of 300,000 people which was not randomly selected (say people got to elect themselves to be participants or say we took all our participants from one city) would be less accurate than the 1,000 person sample which was randomly selected.

And for that reason, forum polls are difficult to draw any kind of meaningful results from. The participants are self selected, not random, and they likely have different characteristics than the player base overall. For example, dissatisfied players may be more likely to be on the forum rather than in the game. Or they might be more into gaming in general, which means they have different preferences.

A forum poll tells you what some slice of your player base thinks, but unless you have good data analytics to weight their responses according to their differences with the overall player base, it cannot tell you much about the player base overall.

Now, since both of you are talking out of your other ends and this has essentially devolved into a monkey poo flinging contest, can we get back to the topic of whether ZOS is a worthy studio?

Edit:

just so you know I'm not BSing you, I have a Masters Degree in Politcal Science, have worked on campaigns and performed polls, and currently work as a data analytics consultant.

I dont have any idea what you are talking about. Very clearly this poll means absolutely nothing. I worked for gallup for years doing polls. This small sampling of a select group of people means nothing. Its like asking the choir what they think of Jesus.

How can it mean nothing when you yourself just said it means 60% of the people asked in this thread are disappointed with the studio? In my mind it means 60% of the people asked in this thread are disappointed with ZOS.

You got to read the entire conversation man. Im not repeating it. Really was a convo between myself and another person. Im kinda just ignoring people sniping at me these days. So you are right 60% of everyone who plays hates the game. You win.

Zyle

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Zyle wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Amount of people voted on the poll 505.

Amount of people who bought the game just in Feb: 100,000.

Not sure of the point of your post, are you saying that those 100,000 players are all happy with their purchase or that given 6 months or so 60% of them will be dissatisfied with zos?

Because 60,000 disatisfied customers isn't really what zenimax or its investors are aiming for I'm sure.

I think the point is you cant say anything with such a small sampling considering not even one tenth of one percent of people who even made a forum account bothered to vote and 40% of them voted opposite. Just not very scientific is the point. Also seems like if there were that many dissatisfied customers just since feb we would see some indication of it on the forums as well.

Market research polls mustn't be very accurate either then... hmm I wonder why corporations both large and small continue to use them with samplings of as little as 100 customers.
Perhaps you know, you seem to be quite the "authority" on every topic in almost every thread so please... enlighten us.

With respect neither of you knows what you're talking about.

Market research polls (like political polls) are extremely accurate because participants are randomly selected. Random selection allows you to get whats known as a representative sample (every person has an equal chance to be selected so the make up of the sample is a reflection of the breadth and depth of public opinion.)

The sample size is not nearly as important as most people think. What matters more is polling methodology. So a random sample of 1,000 participants is able to accurately predict the election results for a country of 320 million people. A poll of 300,000 people which was not randomly selected (say people got to elect themselves to be participants or say we took all our participants from one city) would be less accurate than the 1,000 person sample which was randomly selected.

And for that reason, forum polls are difficult to draw any kind of meaningful results from. The participants are self selected, not random, and they likely have different characteristics than the player base overall. For example, dissatisfied players may be more likely to be on the forum rather than in the game. Or they might be more into gaming in general, which means they have different preferences.

A forum poll tells you what some slice of your player base thinks, but unless you have good data analytics to weight their responses according to their differences with the overall player base, it cannot tell you much about the player base overall.

Now, since both of you are talking out of your other ends and this has essentially devolved into a monkey poo flinging contest, can we get back to the topic of whether ZOS is a worthy studio?

Edit:

just so you know I'm not BSing you, I have a Masters Degree in Politcal Science, have worked on campaigns and performed polls, and currently work as a data analytics consultant.

I dont have any idea what you are talking about. Very clearly this poll means absolutely nothing. I worked for gallup for years doing polls. This small sampling of a select group of people means nothing. Its like asking the choir what they think of Jesus.

How can it mean nothing when you yourself just said it means 60% of the people asked in this thread are disappointed with the studio? In my mind it means 60% of the people asked in this thread are disappointed with ZOS.

You got to read the entire conversation man. Im not repeating it. Really was a convo between myself and another person. Im kinda just ignoring people sniping at me these days. So you are right 60% of everyone who plays hates the game. You win.

Just calling it like I see it. I did read the entire conversation, you were trying to completely discredit this poll as if it equated to nothing because the sample size didn't span the entire ESO player base.

Uriel_Nocturne

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

Villious wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

reften wrote: »

So let me get this straight, you're on the forums of a game, making comments...it's been out for two years now, you're still playing.

but yet you hate the company so much that built this game you'll NEVER buy another game from them again.

*eye roll

Yeah ESO makes me grumble sometimes, but in the end, best PvP experience I've ever had with a game in a genre that I love. You no votes aren't being honest.

Some of us still play for one simple reason....lack of better options. We have played many others, spent our time there, and are done. Some of us are here simply killing time until a better option is released. When that happens, I think you'll see the impact.

This game has amazing potential, but I truly don't think it will ever be completely realized with the current dev team. It seems it's always one step forward, three steps back. When another "successful" MMO is released, we'll see where the rubber meets the road.

I've enjoyed playing ESO, but with a lot of frustration. More than any other MMO, and I started playing MMOs back in March of 1999 when the original Everquest was released, and I've played quite a few of them. So please don't be arrogant enough to presume to say who's not being honest.

So...

RIFT, FFXIV: ARR, LotRO, SWtOR, GW2... none of those are better options than ESO?

How then can ESO be such a disaster that, not only are you still playing it, but it's still "better" than any other MMO on the market right now?

The truthful answer is simple.

ESO is one of the best MMO's on the market right now. However; the game has made changes that are not specifically the changes that you might have made, so you're posting out of misplaced frustration.

I'm 50 years old. I started playing MMO's 17 years ago in March of 1999 when the original Everquest was released. Even before then, I played Ultima Online for almost a year, so I guess that gives me almost 18 years of MMOing. How long have you been playing MMO's?

Rift - played it
Dark Age of Camelot - Played it
FFXIV - Dont like the franchise
ARR - Not sure what that is.
LotRO - Played it, but really didnt like the LOTR atmosphere
SWTOR - Played it
GW2 - Played it, was disappointed with the expansion
Everquest - played it for 6 years
WoW - Played it
TERA - Played it
BDO - Not interested
ArchAge - Messed with it a little, and my buddies and I are actually contemplating going to that now.

What else you got?

My friends and I play MMO's together. We've been playing ESO for about 5 months, and are already tired of the bugs, laggyness of the game in general, devs unable to fix bugs, inability to fix broken mechanics for years, making only male armor wireframes now because its easier to do, devs pretty much patching and balancing once per quarter or less, devs using primary focus to crank out DLCs and crown store items for sale, the list goes on and on and on. I will say that ESO has the best quest lines that I've ever played in MMO's, so kudos to them for that.

You're the very definition of white knight. No matter what happens, you'll defend it with your dying breath, and tell other players how wrong they are and how they feel, when you have not a clue, and are extremely arrogant to even presume saying such things. You keep saying that I think ESO is the best MMO on the market right now, but I've said no such thing. We've played it heavy for 5 months, and are already getting ready to move on for various reasons stated above. We played GW2 for 2 years. WoW for 6 years. The lesser titles for much less time. If another good AAA MMO had been released sooner, we'd be gone now. We unsubbed from ESO two days ago. No more money for them.

You're arrogant enough to lecture me that my (our) unhappiness is "misplaced frustration". Keep on fighting the good fight Sir Knight. They definitely need players like you.

I've heard mixed, but generally positive things about Black Desert Online. I play ESO because I love the Elder Scrolls lore, but I agree with most here that ZOS has done a very poor job overall. BDO doesn't have the ES lore, but by all accounts it's a far better MMO. It might be what you're looking for.

By all accounts? Whos? I play BDO and its a fun game to play. Its nothing like ESO tho. So comparing the two would be like comparing ESo to games like call of duty or the division. BDO is a sandbox box game. No quests to do. You level up by grinding mobs. Once you hit a certain level you can also be attacked at any time by other players. So while yes it is a fun game calling it "better" is a stretch. Since thats all opinion.

Oh and btw there are the same complaints there as here. PVP isnt balanced. Lag. Classes arent balanced. Lag again.

He said he was becoming tired of ESO and was considering Archeage as a new home. I was merely suggesting an alternative. You agree BDO is fun to play, but has its own issues, like ESO. But as you also mention, BDO is sandbox and ESO is themepark, so perhaps that's the kind of difference Villious was looking for? A change is as good as a holiday? Anyhow, as I said, it was just a suggestion, based on reviews from sources I trusted.

I did take a look at BDO, and as I understand it, it's an open world pvp once you hit 50. Now I'm not crazy about that, but might would try it if not for two things.....you loose experience, and pk'er can take items off you. That's a deal breaker for me.

The last MMO I played where you lost XP, and actually went backwards sometimes, was Everquest. While I have oh so very fond memories of Everquest (right @Uriel_Nocturne ?), I don't want to do the backwards XP boogie ever again.

I think it's gonna be quite a while before we really see any good new AAA titles released. At least ones I'd be interested in playing. But I'll keep a weathered eye on the horizon. :-)

Agreed.

EverQuest was an amazing MMO, despite some of it's issues that I like to gloss over when I talk about it almost 20 years later. But those times where you lost XP... the frustration was real.

Also, the Grind.

People on ESO whine about having to grind. That just makes me have one of those deep "belly laughs". You don't know what grinding is until you've experienced EverQuest and Ultima Online. That Grind... it was real. lol

I actually went and looked up BDO again last night. Watched some videos on it... watched some people playing it. That hour of my life watching that game just reinforced my lack of interest in it. I could partially get behind the open PvP at a certain level, but as you said, @Villious , players taking my hard-earned equipment off of my corpse? Instant deal breaker, regardless of the penalties that may or may not be in place for PK'ing.

Looking at the various release schedules posted by development companies for the rest of 2016 and early 2017, there really aren't any AAA MMO's coming down the pipe anytime soon.

So I'm just happy that I'm still hopelessly taken with ESO, because the list of future options is pretty darn slim.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

reften wrote: »

So let me get this straight, you're on the forums of a game, making comments...it's been out for two years now, you're still playing.

but yet you hate the company so much that built this game you'll NEVER buy another game from them again.

*eye roll

Yeah ESO makes me grumble sometimes, but in the end, best PvP experience I've ever had with a game in a genre that I love. You no votes aren't being honest.

Some of us still play for one simple reason....lack of better options. We have played many others, spent our time there, and are done. Some of us are here simply killing time until a better option is released. When that happens, I think you'll see the impact.

This game has amazing potential, but I truly don't think it will ever be completely realized with the current dev team. It seems it's always one step forward, three steps back. When another "successful" MMO is released, we'll see where the rubber meets the road.

I've enjoyed playing ESO, but with a lot of frustration. More than any other MMO, and I started playing MMOs back in March of 1999 when the original Everquest was released, and I've played quite a few of them. So please don't be arrogant enough to presume to say who's not being honest.

So...

RIFT, FFXIV: ARR, LotRO, SWtOR, GW2... none of those are better options than ESO?

How then can ESO be such a disaster that, not only are you still playing it, but it's still "better" than any other MMO on the market right now?

The truthful answer is simple.

ESO is one of the best MMO's on the market right now. However; the game has made changes that are not specifically the changes that you might have made, so you're posting out of misplaced frustration.

I'm 50 years old. I started playing MMO's 17 years ago in March of 1999 when the original Everquest was released. Even before then, I played Ultima Online for almost a year, so I guess that gives me almost 18 years of MMOing. How long have you been playing MMO's?

Rift - played it
Dark Age of Camelot - Played it
FFXIV - Dont like the franchise
ARR - Not sure what that is.
LotRO - Played it, but really didnt like the LOTR atmosphere
SWTOR - Played it
GW2 - Played it, was disappointed with the expansion
Everquest - played it for 6 years
WoW - Played it
TERA - Played it
BDO - Not interested
ArchAge - Messed with it a little, and my buddies and I are actually contemplating going to that now.

What else you got?

My friends and I play MMO's together. We've been playing ESO for about 5 months, and are already tired of the bugs, laggyness of the game in general, devs unable to fix bugs, inability to fix broken mechanics for years, making only male armor wireframes now because its easier to do, devs pretty much patching and balancing once per quarter or less, devs using primary focus to crank out DLCs and crown store items for sale, the list goes on and on and on. I will say that ESO has the best quest lines that I've ever played in MMO's, so kudos to them for that.

You're the very definition of white knight. No matter what happens, you'll defend it with your dying breath, and tell other players how wrong they are and how they feel, when you have not a clue, and are extremely arrogant to even presume saying such things. You keep saying that I think ESO is the best MMO on the market right now, but I've said no such thing. We've played it heavy for 5 months, and are already getting ready to move on for various reasons stated above. We played GW2 for 2 years. WoW for 6 years. The lesser titles for much less time. If another good AAA MMO had been released sooner, we'd be gone now. We unsubbed from ESO two days ago. No more money for them.

You're arrogant enough to lecture me that my (our) unhappiness is "misplaced frustration". Keep on fighting the good fight Sir Knight. They definitely need players like you.

I've heard mixed, but generally positive things about Black Desert Online. I play ESO because I love the Elder Scrolls lore, but I agree with most here that ZOS has done a very poor job overall. BDO doesn't have the ES lore, but by all accounts it's a far better MMO. It might be what you're looking for.

By all accounts? Whos? I play BDO and its a fun game to play. Its nothing like ESO tho. So comparing the two would be like comparing ESo to games like call of duty or the division. BDO is a sandbox box game. No quests to do. You level up by grinding mobs. Once you hit a certain level you can also be attacked at any time by other players. So while yes it is a fun game calling it "better" is a stretch. Since thats all opinion.

Oh and btw there are the same complaints there as here. PVP isnt balanced. Lag. Classes arent balanced. Lag again.

He said he was becoming tired of ESO and was considering Archeage as a new home. I was merely suggesting an alternative. You agree BDO is fun to play, but has its own issues, like ESO. But as you also mention, BDO is sandbox and ESO is themepark, so perhaps that's the kind of difference Villious was looking for? A change is as good as a holiday? Anyhow, as I said, it was just a suggestion, based on reviews from sources I trusted.

I did take a look at BDO, and as I understand it, it's an open world pvp once you hit 50. Now I'm not crazy about that, but might would try it if not for two things.....you loose experience, and pk'er can take items off you. That's a deal breaker for me.

The last MMO I played where you lost XP, and actually went backwards sometimes, was Everquest. While I have oh so very fond memories of Everquest (right @Uriel_Nocturne ?), I don't want to do the backwards XP boogie ever again.

I think it's gonna be quite a while before we really see any good new AAA titles released. At least ones I'd be interested in playing. But I'll keep a weathered eye on the horizon. :-)

Agreed.

EverQuest was an amazing MMO, despite some of it's issues that I like to gloss over when I talk about it almost 20 years later. But those times where you lost XP... the frustration was real.

Also, the Grind.

People on ESO whine about having to grind. That just makes me have one of those deep "belly laughs". You don't know what grinding is until you've experienced EverQuest and Ultima Online. That Grind... it was real. lol

I actually went and looked up BDO again last night. Watched some videos on it... watched some people playing it. That hour of my life watching that game just reinforced my lack of interest in it. I could partially get behind the open PvP at a certain level, but as you said, @Villious , players taking my hard-earned equipment off of my corpse? Instant deal breaker, regardless of the penalties that may or may not be in place for PK'ing.

Looking at the various release schedules posted by development companies for the rest of 2016 and early 2017, there really aren't any AAA MMO's coming down the pipe anytime soon.

So I'm just happy that I'm still hopelessly taken with ESO, because the list of future options is pretty darn slim.

I was a beta tester for Ultima Online. When the game launched I spent practically every gaming hour (about 8 hours a day) grinding blacksmithy. Now this is before people figured out how to grind on boats in a pattern and before anyone knew at the beginning of the day there was an hour where you would get more xp than normal.

Anyways took me 6 months of 8 hours a day 7 days a week to hit GM blacksmithing. I used to sit up at the forge and repair items for tips. Made a fortune because at the time there were no repair deeds. So you had to hand over your rare magical weapons like a silver vanq katana and trust the blacksmith wouldnt steal them.

So ya the grind in ESO is nothing compared to those older games like UO and EQ.

NordJitsu

No, I would not buy another ZOS title.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

NordJitsu wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Tommy1979AtWar wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Amount of people voted on the poll 505.

Amount of people who bought the game just in Feb: 100,000.

Not sure of the point of your post, are you saying that those 100,000 players are all happy with their purchase or that given 6 months or so 60% of them will be dissatisfied with zos?

Because 60,000 disatisfied customers isn't really what zenimax or its investors are aiming for I'm sure.

I think the point is you cant say anything with such a small sampling considering not even one tenth of one percent of people who even made a forum account bothered to vote and 40% of them voted opposite. Just not very scientific is the point. Also seems like if there were that many dissatisfied customers just since feb we would see some indication of it on the forums as well.

Market research polls mustn't be very accurate either then... hmm I wonder why corporations both large and small continue to use them with samplings of as little as 100 customers.
Perhaps you know, you seem to be quite the "authority" on every topic in almost every thread so please... enlighten us.

With respect neither of you knows what you're talking about.

Market research polls (like political polls) are extremely accurate because participants are randomly selected. Random selection allows you to get whats known as a representative sample (every person has an equal chance to be selected so the make up of the sample is a reflection of the breadth and depth of public opinion.)

The sample size is not nearly as important as most people think. What matters more is polling methodology. So a random sample of 1,000 participants is able to accurately predict the election results for a country of 320 million people. A poll of 300,000 people which was not randomly selected (say people got to elect themselves to be participants or say we took all our participants from one city) would be less accurate than the 1,000 person sample which was randomly selected.

And for that reason, forum polls are difficult to draw any kind of meaningful results from. The participants are self selected, not random, and they likely have different characteristics than the player base overall. For example, dissatisfied players may be more likely to be on the forum rather than in the game. Or they might be more into gaming in general, which means they have different preferences.

A forum poll tells you what some slice of your player base thinks, but unless you have good data analytics to weight their responses according to their differences with the overall player base, it cannot tell you much about the player base overall.

Now, since both of you are talking out of your other ends and this has essentially devolved into a monkey poo flinging contest, can we get back to the topic of whether ZOS is a worthy studio?

Edit:

just so you know I'm not BSing you, I have a Masters Degree in Politcal Science, have worked on campaigns and performed polls, and currently work as a data analytics consultant.

I dont have any idea what you are talking about.

That's because you apparently did not read any of my post.

I did read it.

Well try again because I mostly agreed with your position.

Uriel_Nocturne

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

reften wrote: »

So let me get this straight, you're on the forums of a game, making comments...it's been out for two years now, you're still playing.

but yet you hate the company so much that built this game you'll NEVER buy another game from them again.

*eye roll

Yeah ESO makes me grumble sometimes, but in the end, best PvP experience I've ever had with a game in a genre that I love. You no votes aren't being honest.

Some of us still play for one simple reason....lack of better options. We have played many others, spent our time there, and are done. Some of us are here simply killing time until a better option is released. When that happens, I think you'll see the impact.

This game has amazing potential, but I truly don't think it will ever be completely realized with the current dev team. It seems it's always one step forward, three steps back. When another "successful" MMO is released, we'll see where the rubber meets the road.

I've enjoyed playing ESO, but with a lot of frustration. More than any other MMO, and I started playing MMOs back in March of 1999 when the original Everquest was released, and I've played quite a few of them. So please don't be arrogant enough to presume to say who's not being honest.

So...

RIFT, FFXIV: ARR, LotRO, SWtOR, GW2... none of those are better options than ESO?

How then can ESO be such a disaster that, not only are you still playing it, but it's still "better" than any other MMO on the market right now?

The truthful answer is simple.

ESO is one of the best MMO's on the market right now. However; the game has made changes that are not specifically the changes that you might have made, so you're posting out of misplaced frustration.

I'm 50 years old. I started playing MMO's 17 years ago in March of 1999 when the original Everquest was released. Even before then, I played Ultima Online for almost a year, so I guess that gives me almost 18 years of MMOing. How long have you been playing MMO's?

Rift - played it
Dark Age of Camelot - Played it
FFXIV - Dont like the franchise
ARR - Not sure what that is.
LotRO - Played it, but really didnt like the LOTR atmosphere
SWTOR - Played it
GW2 - Played it, was disappointed with the expansion
Everquest - played it for 6 years
WoW - Played it
TERA - Played it
BDO - Not interested
ArchAge - Messed with it a little, and my buddies and I are actually contemplating going to that now.

What else you got?

My friends and I play MMO's together. We've been playing ESO for about 5 months, and are already tired of the bugs, laggyness of the game in general, devs unable to fix bugs, inability to fix broken mechanics for years, making only male armor wireframes now because its easier to do, devs pretty much patching and balancing once per quarter or less, devs using primary focus to crank out DLCs and crown store items for sale, the list goes on and on and on. I will say that ESO has the best quest lines that I've ever played in MMO's, so kudos to them for that.

You're the very definition of white knight. No matter what happens, you'll defend it with your dying breath, and tell other players how wrong they are and how they feel, when you have not a clue, and are extremely arrogant to even presume saying such things. You keep saying that I think ESO is the best MMO on the market right now, but I've said no such thing. We've played it heavy for 5 months, and are already getting ready to move on for various reasons stated above. We played GW2 for 2 years. WoW for 6 years. The lesser titles for much less time. If another good AAA MMO had been released sooner, we'd be gone now. We unsubbed from ESO two days ago. No more money for them.

You're arrogant enough to lecture me that my (our) unhappiness is "misplaced frustration". Keep on fighting the good fight Sir Knight. They definitely need players like you.

I've heard mixed, but generally positive things about Black Desert Online. I play ESO because I love the Elder Scrolls lore, but I agree with most here that ZOS has done a very poor job overall. BDO doesn't have the ES lore, but by all accounts it's a far better MMO. It might be what you're looking for.

By all accounts? Whos? I play BDO and its a fun game to play. Its nothing like ESO tho. So comparing the two would be like comparing ESo to games like call of duty or the division. BDO is a sandbox box game. No quests to do. You level up by grinding mobs. Once you hit a certain level you can also be attacked at any time by other players. So while yes it is a fun game calling it "better" is a stretch. Since thats all opinion.

Oh and btw there are the same complaints there as here. PVP isnt balanced. Lag. Classes arent balanced. Lag again.

He said he was becoming tired of ESO and was considering Archeage as a new home. I was merely suggesting an alternative. You agree BDO is fun to play, but has its own issues, like ESO. But as you also mention, BDO is sandbox and ESO is themepark, so perhaps that's the kind of difference Villious was looking for? A change is as good as a holiday? Anyhow, as I said, it was just a suggestion, based on reviews from sources I trusted.

I did take a look at BDO, and as I understand it, it's an open world pvp once you hit 50. Now I'm not crazy about that, but might would try it if not for two things.....you loose experience, and pk'er can take items off you. That's a deal breaker for me.

The last MMO I played where you lost XP, and actually went backwards sometimes, was Everquest. While I have oh so very fond memories of Everquest (right @Uriel_Nocturne ?), I don't want to do the backwards XP boogie ever again.

I think it's gonna be quite a while before we really see any good new AAA titles released. At least ones I'd be interested in playing. But I'll keep a weathered eye on the horizon. :-)

Agreed.

EverQuest was an amazing MMO, despite some of it's issues that I like to gloss over when I talk about it almost 20 years later. But those times where you lost XP... the frustration was real.

Also, the Grind.

People on ESO whine about having to grind. That just makes me have one of those deep "belly laughs". You don't know what grinding is until you've experienced EverQuest and Ultima Online. That Grind... it was real. lol

I actually went and looked up BDO again last night. Watched some videos on it... watched some people playing it. That hour of my life watching that game just reinforced my lack of interest in it. I could partially get behind the open PvP at a certain level, but as you said, @Villious , players taking my hard-earned equipment off of my corpse? Instant deal breaker, regardless of the penalties that may or may not be in place for PK'ing.

Looking at the various release schedules posted by development companies for the rest of 2016 and early 2017, there really aren't any AAA MMO's coming down the pipe anytime soon.

So I'm just happy that I'm still hopelessly taken with ESO, because the list of future options is pretty darn slim.

I was a beta tester for Ultima Online. When the game launched I spent practically every gaming hour (about 8 hours a day) grinding blacksmithy. Now this is before people figured out how to grind on boats in a pattern and before anyone knew at the beginning of the day there was an hour where you would get more xp than normal.

Anyways took me 6 months of 8 hours a day 7 days a week to hit GM blacksmithing. I used to sit up at the forge and repair items for tips. Made a fortune because at the time there were no repair deeds. So you had to hand over your rare magical weapons like a silver vanq katana and trust the blacksmith wouldnt steal them.

So ya the grind in ESO is nothing compared to those older games like UO and EQ.

I forgot how much money I made off of Blacksmithing in that game! lol

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

jamesharv2005ub17_ESO wrote: »

Genomic wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

Uriel_Nocturne wrote: »

Villious wrote: »

reften wrote: »

So let me get this straight, you're on the forums of a game, making comments...it's been out for two years now, you're still playing.

but yet you hate the company so much that built this game you'll NEVER buy another game from them again.

*eye roll

Yeah ESO makes me grumble sometimes, but in the end, best PvP experience I've ever had with a game in a genre that I love. You no votes aren't being honest.

Some of us still play for one simple reason....lack of better options. We have played many others, spent our time there, and are done. Some of us are here simply killing time until a better option is released. When that happens, I think you'll see the impact.

This game has amazing potential, but I truly don't think it will ever be completely realized with the current dev team. It seems it's always one step forward, three steps back. When another "successful" MMO is released, we'll see where the rubber meets the road.

I've enjoyed playing ESO, but with a lot of frustration. More than any other MMO, and I started playing MMOs back in March of 1999 when the original Everquest was released, and I've played quite a few of them. So please don't be arrogant enough to presume to say who's not being honest.

So...

RIFT, FFXIV: ARR, LotRO, SWtOR, GW2... none of those are better options than ESO?

How then can ESO be such a disaster that, not only are you still playing it, but it's still "better" than any other MMO on the market right now?

The truthful answer is simple.

ESO is one of the best MMO's on the market right now. However; the game has made changes that are not specifically the changes that you might have made, so you're posting out of misplaced frustration.

I'm 50 years old. I started playing MMO's 17 years ago in March of 1999 when the original Everquest was released. Even before then, I played Ultima Online for almost a year, so I guess that gives me almost 18 years of MMOing. How long have you been playing MMO's?

Rift - played it
Dark Age of Camelot - Played it
FFXIV - Dont like the franchise
ARR - Not sure what that is.
LotRO - Played it, but really didnt like the LOTR atmosphere
SWTOR - Played it
GW2 - Played it, was disappointed with the expansion
Everquest - played it for 6 years
WoW - Played it
TERA - Played it
BDO - Not interested
ArchAge - Messed with it a little, and my buddies and I are actually contemplating going to that now.

What else you got?

My friends and I play MMO's together. We've been playing ESO for about 5 months, and are already tired of the bugs, laggyness of the game in general, devs unable to fix bugs, inability to fix broken mechanics for years, making only male armor wireframes now because its easier to do, devs pretty much patching and balancing once per quarter or less, devs using primary focus to crank out DLCs and crown store items for sale, the list goes on and on and on. I will say that ESO has the best quest lines that I've ever played in MMO's, so kudos to them for that.

You're the very definition of white knight. No matter what happens, you'll defend it with your dying breath, and tell other players how wrong they are and how they feel, when you have not a clue, and are extremely arrogant to even presume saying such things. You keep saying that I think ESO is the best MMO on the market right now, but I've said no such thing. We've played it heavy for 5 months, and are already getting ready to move on for various reasons stated above. We played GW2 for 2 years. WoW for 6 years. The lesser titles for much less time. If another good AAA MMO had been released sooner, we'd be gone now. We unsubbed from ESO two days ago. No more money for them.

You're arrogant enough to lecture me that my (our) unhappiness is "misplaced frustration". Keep on fighting the good fight Sir Knight. They definitely need players like you.

I've heard mixed, but generally positive things about Black Desert Online. I play ESO because I love the Elder Scrolls lore, but I agree with most here that ZOS has done a very poor job overall. BDO doesn't have the ES lore, but by all accounts it's a far better MMO. It might be what you're looking for.

By all accounts? Whos? I play BDO and its a fun game to play. Its nothing like ESO tho. So comparing the two would be like comparing ESo to games like call of duty or the division. BDO is a sandbox box game. No quests to do. You level up by grinding mobs. Once you hit a certain level you can also be attacked at any time by other players. So while yes it is a fun game calling it "better" is a stretch. Since thats all opinion.

Oh and btw there are the same complaints there as here. PVP isnt balanced. Lag. Classes arent balanced. Lag again.

He said he was becoming tired of ESO and was considering Archeage as a new home. I was merely suggesting an alternative. You agree BDO is fun to play, but has its own issues, like ESO. But as you also mention, BDO is sandbox and ESO is themepark, so perhaps that's the kind of difference Villious was looking for? A change is as good as a holiday? Anyhow, as I said, it was just a suggestion, based on reviews from sources I trusted.

I did take a look at BDO, and as I understand it, it's an open world pvp once you hit 50. Now I'm not crazy about that, but might would try it if not for two things.....you loose experience, and pk'er can take items off you. That's a deal breaker for me.

The last MMO I played where you lost XP, and actually went backwards sometimes, was Everquest. While I have oh so very fond memories of Everquest (right @Uriel_Nocturne ?), I don't want to do the backwards XP boogie ever again.

I think it's gonna be quite a while before we really see any good new AAA titles released. At least ones I'd be interested in playing. But I'll keep a weathered eye on the horizon. :-)

Agreed.

EverQuest was an amazing MMO, despite some of it's issues that I like to gloss over when I talk about it almost 20 years later. But those times where you lost XP... the frustration was real.

Also, the Grind.

People on ESO whine about having to grind. That just makes me have one of those deep "belly laughs". You don't know what grinding is until you've experienced EverQuest and Ultima Online. That Grind... it was real. lol

I actually went and looked up BDO again last night. Watched some videos on it... watched some people playing it. That hour of my life watching that game just reinforced my lack of interest in it. I could partially get behind the open PvP at a certain level, but as you said, @Villious , players taking my hard-earned equipment off of my corpse? Instant deal breaker, regardless of the penalties that may or may not be in place for PK'ing.

Looking at the various release schedules posted by development companies for the rest of 2016 and early 2017, there really aren't any AAA MMO's coming down the pipe anytime soon.

So I'm just happy that I'm still hopelessly taken with ESO, because the list of future options is pretty darn slim.

I was a beta tester for Ultima Online. When the game launched I spent practically every gaming hour (about 8 hours a day) grinding blacksmithy. Now this is before people figured out how to grind on boats in a pattern and before anyone knew at the beginning of the day there was an hour where you would get more xp than normal.

Anyways took me 6 months of 8 hours a day 7 days a week to hit GM blacksmithing. I used to sit up at the forge and repair items for tips. Made a fortune because at the time there were no repair deeds. So you had to hand over your rare magical weapons like a silver vanq katana and trust the blacksmith wouldnt steal them.

So ya the grind in ESO is nothing compared to those older games like UO and EQ.

I forgot how much money I made off of Blacksmithing in that game! lol

Once word gets out you wont steal stuff then you get a ton of repeat business.

Sidney

Yes, I would buy another ZOS title.

You should have added a third option saying something like "If it had great reviews" or "It depends - explain below" or something.

I picked yes because I would buy another single player game. Those either end up allowing mods or you can get enough hours enjoyment out of it for the money to be worth it.

However, it's unlikely I would buy another MMO right away. Despite bugs lasting 2 years and all the other silly decisions they have made, as far as I know (and please correct me if I am wrong) but this is their first MMO. I think while it did have a not so great launch, other games had worse launches but because they were so long ago, everyone looks back on them and forgets the awfulness.

Also, the reviews on how "awful" the launch was were all bs and unfair in my eyes. Honestly, compare the bugs in this game and patch days here to the issues that happens in wow every time there's a huge patch or a new DLC. ZOS has added in DLC's with very little problems by comparison.

I can only hope and assume that they would only do better each new MMO they may put out. This game has had 2 years to be polished whereas many of the other games that people compare it to when calling it awful have had WAY longer to get polished.

Keep in mind, this post is also coming from someone who cancelled their sub because they have been consistently making terrible decisions and I don't want to support that so I'm not a complete fan girl.

TL;DR: I would wait until others told me if it was worth trying or not.