Official Feedback Thread for Templars

bowmanz607

Islyn wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

kkravaritieb17_ESO wrote: »

Bol nerf is so stupid and unnecessary ...nobody really asked for it but here it is. Why does ZOS never listen to the people actually playing templar i cant understand.

actually plenty of people asked for bol nerf. this was not the one many had in mind though.

No, people (who are not plain stupid) asked for line of sight to be applied. Some asked for range nerf.

No many people ask for the healing to be reduced. Even if you add Los it does not fix the fact that a Templar spamming it on a target can keep that target up through multiple players burst combis. They can be laying on the ground from a knock back and just get bil spam healed through it all. It is too much.

bowmanz607

Animal_Mother wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

Hiero_Glyph wrote: »

bowmanz607 wrote: »

BOL needed reduced healing not reduced the number of people it hit.

The problem with BoL was smart healing and the ability to heal targets you couldn't see. This change does nothing to fix those issues and just makes it require being spammed even more. If BoL had a line of sight requirement then it would avoid healing players through floors/walls since the radius was rather large. Also, smart healing targets literally anyone that has low health, even if you don't know they need a heal. This is what makes spamming BoL OP; healing up to 3 targets just makes each spam more effective so ZOS is fixing the wrong issue.

although that is one issue, that is not what i am talking about. Also, smart healing will never be removed so have to deal with that aspect. The issue is when you have 8 people single targeting one guy that is getting BOL spammed from a templar and the heals outpacing the dps. This is especially true when fighting a templar with BOL. you end up with a raid hammering on one guy spamming bol. One spammable heal should not outheal a group hammering on one guy. that is too much.

Sounds like the problem is the 8 guys hammering the one guy with a pocket healer. All it takes is for one or two of them to peel off and stun/interrupt/silence the healer. Problem solved.

The same issue occurs with a temp spamming bol on themselves. Throwing up immovable pots and enough stamina to break tree for awhile on top of that while spamming bol and getting hammered by half a raid. Happens all the time. Hell it happens when I play my temp.

GhostwalkerLD

MissBizz wrote: »

AfkNinja wrote: »

Also ZOS, thank you for Nerfing the healing on Puncturing Sweeps by 5% and not including it in the patch notes. Real cool move bro's.

Just came to mention this. This was an undocumented nerf to puncturing sweeps healing. The heal was reduced by 5% (Was 40%, is now 35% on PTS)

And the cost was increased by 10%. Also undocumented. Hurray for stealth nerfs. >.<

danno8

Soris wrote: »

danno8 wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
  Burning Light dmg is 2866

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
  Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

@Soris
Something strange is going on.

If you split the points 50/50 instead of 100/0, I get stronger Sweeps, which makes sense since splitting them means you get less diminishing returns.

What is strange is that both Dark Flare and Toppling charge also become much stronger when I split the points and they are in no way a channel or DoT.

Can someone else verify?

Tested for dark flare,
0 point in elemental and thaumaturge (100 into blessed to get max magicka)
10244

50 into elemental 0 into thaumaturge
11582

50 into elemental 50 into thaumaturge
11582

100 into elemental 0 into thaumaturge
12805


I couldnt reproduce that as you see. There is no differencre between 50/50 and 50/0. Maybe you forgot to spend points elswhere to get max magicka? Because there is roughtly 3k magicka difference there and that probably chabged your dmg numbers.
But 50/50 definetely yields more dmg for sweeps than 100/0.
So 100/0 good for flare 50/50 good for sweeps. Great.

Man it is completely weird for me. Get this:

edit: Wasn't clear this is testing for Dark Flare only.

50 Thau / 50 EE

PS = 980
DF = 12008
TC = 5411
RD= 12392

50 EE / 0 Thau (50 in Elf for magicka)

PS = 849
DF = 10406
TC = 4689
RD = 12392

100 EE / 0 Thau

All the same as 50 EE

100 Thau / 0 EE

PS = 1061
DF = 13007
TC = 5861
RD = 12392


So for me Elemental Expert is not working at all! In fact Thaumaturge seems to still be the star that is increasing magicka damage for me.

W T F !

@ZOS_GinaBruno

edit: OK this seems to be a tooltip problem. I should have know not to trust them. Testing actual damage shows that Elemental expert is, in fact, increasing magicka damage. But the tooltips seem to still be updating off of the old Thaumaturge star.

Sharkano

They raised the cost of jabs, and cut the actual healing by 13% (but claim that's ok because IF you are running other skills too it actually heals more, lol). I wish I could stealth nerf their paycehcks . . . .

cavakthestampede

BalticBlues wrote: »

What happens in vet dungeons like Darkshade with the bosses toxic air?

Healing as a nightblade, I can tell you that I will be unaffected by the change to BoL or Funnel health...because there are multiple better ways to heal that fight even with a team very slowly dps-ing the boss.

The best way is probably rolling rapid regen, with healing ward, and using healing springs when the team groups up to kill adds.

Faulgor

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
  Burning Light dmg is 2866

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
  Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

This is great for PvE, imo.
And terrible for PvP because, as you say, it's probably reduced by several CP passives (Spell Resist, Elemental Defender, Thick Skinned). So you absolutely have to max out Elemental Expert and Thaumaturge for even baseline damage. Ugh.

On a sidenote, I hope the fact the Templar feedback thread has more than twice as many pages as those for other classes tells them something ...

Essiaga

Faulgor wrote: »

Soris wrote: »

Did some quick testing about champion passives and jab damage, here is the result.

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2181
  Burning Light dmg is 2866

• Elemental Expert 60 points (17.5%) + Tharmaturge 30 points (10.8%)
  Puncturing Sweep dmg is 2521
  Burning Light is 3129

As a result, as you can see we still have to spread cp into two different trees in order to buff our main dmg ability.
I have not yet tested this in pvp vs players but i believe damage of sweeps can also be reduced by both magic damage and dot dmg reduction passives in red trees as it's already in live since 1.6 released. This should be fixed already.

/gonna test with stamina morph as well.
/same with biting jabs.

This is great for PvE, imo.
And terrible for PvP because, as you say, it's probably reduced by several CP passives (Spell Resist, Elemental Defender, Thick Skinned). So you absolutely have to max out Elemental Expert and Thaumaturge for even baseline damage. Ugh.

On a sidenote, I hope the fact the Templar feedback thread has more than twice as many pages as those for other classes tells them something ...

Just more for them to ignore. like the many templar threads. The one was well over 40 pages and we got replies from Gina a few times and everything. I see 2 minor changes to passives and jabs switch to snare from there. Very disappointed.

I think the most obvious issues are the lack of mitigation/defensive skills and aoe CC. If you look at the 'Winning!' classes even the stam builds can utilize the magicka utility of such skills where as stamplars and mageplars are totally lacking. We need Blinding Flashes back. The least the could do is fix Sun shield. The none battle spirit shield would be great and still be significantly less the Hardened Ward is WITH the battle spirit nerf.

BOL got nerfed ... Purifing Ritual got nerf/fixed ... Hardened Ward? Untouched. Sun Shield? 1% per enemy hit.

DHale

I retired my Templar after the blazing spear nerf... it was the last straw. Rune focus got two nerfs you have to stand in it now which is ridiculous and healing decreases from 30 to 25 percent. I guess I will just stand there and die good thing toppling charge is fixed so I can chase them if someone else is healing me. At least they would be slowed for two seconds. Breath of life was nerfed. Puncturing sweep's heal is now reduced 5 percent. I humbly request you quit with the nerfs. None of the "buffs" have given me any encouragement that you were improving the class or that playing it would be fun or productive. Healing ritual was nerfed 25 percent and still takes 1.25 seconds or so but costs the same. You can't make it so hard to play a Templar that it's not worth the effort or frustration. I am truly disappointed I played one so long. I was always cognizant it was the weakest class in terms of dps even with Jesus beam. I leveled a Templar to be a healer and provide utility for my group. Now that will be more trouble than it is worth. Though I am happy with the dk changes.

Boost rune focus back to 30 percent also purifying ritual.
If you are keeping Bol to two people make it 10 percent stronger and cost 10 percent less
Let healing staff synergize with our restoring light line
Return sweeps healing to it original level the slow is fine.
Change radial/crescent to 10 meters... Why would you ever use it over dawnbreaker?
Improve sun shield and blazing shield to 54 percent of highest stat stamina or magic or health plus five percent fo each additional person up to 6 ppl.

Ajaxduo

Can stamina Templar's finally get some please?

Alorier

Oh well the PvPers will be crying when they can't fill there Templar bounty already one of the worse bountys to fill as is

Chelos

Ishammael wrote: »

Explain how the change to BoL *prevents* you from healing.

Ok, even though this is completely not the point, I'll respect the question.

It reduces my efficiency.
Especially in PvP I want healing to be out fast and do as much else to keep myself alife as I possibly can.
I will need to fall back to other healing combos which, by now are more efficient but steal a an additional slot.
**That's** what I don't need.
Heck even resto staff skills look more useful to me now, and these are skills everyone may use.

Why have a healing skillset if it's broken and doesn't make you stand out in that area.

Zheg

Chelos wrote: »

Ishammael wrote: »

Explain how the change to BoL *prevents* you from healing.

Ok, even though this is completely not the point, I'll respect the question.

It reduces my efficiency.
Especially in PvP I want healing to be out fast and do as much else to keep myself alife as I possibly can.
I will need to fall back to other healing combos which, by now are more efficient but steal a an additional slot.
**That's** what I don't need.
Heck even resto staff skills look more useful to me now, and these are skills everyone may use.

Why have a healing skillset if it's broken and doesn't make you stand out in that area.

I think this last point resonated well with me. Blessing of Restoration is the new go-to heal in my opinion, and replaces breath of life. Ritual is too derpy to use in actual combat, particularly in pvp because of the cast time and loss of movement speed (no one runs this anyway, though I tried many many times to make it work when I used to heal). Remembrance locks you in place, is a channel, and makes it even more obvious to opponents that you're the healer and need to be focused down. Repentance is good, but situational and requires templars to slot it to get less than the same passive regen that other classes get in inherent passive skills. Resto staff pretty much outshines every heal in the templar line now, which is bizarre considering what the purpose of that skill line is supposed to be for templars. I LIKE that resto staff is good now, but I don't see it being well balanced when templars have an entire skill line that is outshone by resto staff.

Kaliki

Chelos wrote: »

Why have a healing skillset if it's broken and doesn't make you stand out in that area.

Templars aren't supposed to stand out.
We just have to stand inside small circles.

This is the biggest issue for me. In order to get healing and defensive buffs we have to stand still or stay in a circle.

When can we do that without dieing? In PvE surely not. Most aoe is almost as big as our purifying ritual.

Also not in PvP. Siege weapons and other classes with lots of mobility won't let me stay in one place.

In a game where standing still means death,
ZoS gives us channelled skills, healing and damage skills with cast time, ground based buffs...
Does that mean ZoS designs Templars to die?

Gigasax

@ZOS_GinaBruno

We need some Feedback from the Dev´s!

Frenkthevile

david.haypreub18_ESO wrote: »

A 1% increase?

A 1m increase?

Are you really asking us to comment on these as serious proposals for fixing terrible skills? I guarantee you this will not fix them.

I can only conclude what seems to be the consensus, that the team assigned to fix Templars has no idea what they are doing, and has not for some time.

My feedback and suggestion is to reassign the team tasked with fixing the Templars, and buy a pack of hamsters to type randomly across keyboards. They will undoubtedly do a better job than the current team.

Memo to developers: no class will be effective in PvP as anything other than a pocket healer if it has no AoE CC, no mobility, no source of Major Brutality or Sorcery, a weak shield, and a bunch of slow-casting and channeled abilities. We've known this for close to two years now.

Seriously, this is quite terrible.

After many moths spent waiting these changes, i feel TROLLED, meh.

Nifty2g

@ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_KNowak @Wrobel

Can we PLEASE get rid of the double click for Blazing Spear and make it instant cast, very similar to Lightning Atronach, Negate, Solar etc

Using Shards is a DPS loss with the double click, please give us an instant cast.

Meshal

Hello,

First of all, I'd like to say I really like the new changes in Templar class, except for the Breath Of Life nerf ofcourse

Second, I'd like to suggest more changes to the class:

In my opinion, Templar class DOTS time are really short, which makes it really difficult to keep it up all the time. I really liked the new change in Vampire's Bane time buff to 9 seconds, but what about the other skills?

I would suggest and REALLY like if the dot time is increased a bit more in Vampire Bane, but also increase Blazing Spear time to make it equivalent to Eruption and Liquid Lightning, because seriously most of Templar dots are 6 seconds which makes it really hard to keep it up all the time. Backlash time would also be great if it's increased just a tiny bit . In my opinion, this change would fix most of the Templar issues.

Frenkthevile

Just this, enjoy my reaction:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rFVvYmV6iFg/VrRtPLec7cI/AAAAAAAAA4A/633ND2KWrS8/w1556-h875-no/16%2B-%2B1

I invite all the Templars that feel ''left behind'' to do the same, let's see if they like a 25% nerf to € incomes...

Brrrofski

My main gripe on my templar has been toppling charged not working. I hoped they'd fixed it. People saying on it still isn't, which is slightly disappointing.

The bol nerf... It's good for pvp. It really is. For pve it's going to make things harder. But a lot of the content is super easy now, so it won't be too bad I don't think. I'm on xbox, so will have to wait and see.

cazlonb16_ESO

Even after sleeping on it I can't for the life of me understand how the people who designed the combat system in ESO could possibly think that the stationary gameplay they obviously envision for the Templar class can ever be viable. This applies to all aspects now - Dark Flare and Sweeps as primary damage abilities have a cast/channel time and snare the user, devs clearly think that Healing Ritual should be an integral part of healing and basically all class buffs are bound to location, a tiny circle in case of rune, a somewhat larger one for Cleansing Ritual.

How on earth is turning Templars into even more of sitting ducks, defenseless ones at that while casting, going to improve just about anything ? It's not like turret mode would provide any benefits other classes do not get while being mobile and able to use active defenses.

This is a much more important issue than individual buffs or nerfs, even hidden ones, because it shows a fundamental misunderstanding of the very basics of the combat gameplay in ESO.

Kaliki

I do not understand the buff to Dark Flare to be honest. Its damage was not the issue. 12 % more damage for Dark Flare may seem nice, but does not make the skill that more desirable.

There are two main reasons why I cannot use Dark Flare:
1) mostly PvE: fights require me to move most of the time, so casting is not possible
2) mostly PvP: other players can just reflect it. This is now worse in the new update as spells can only get reflected once. This spell provides major defile which is good in PvP, but I cannot risk losing half my health having Dark Flare reflected back at me.

So how can I effectively use Dark Flare?
The only possible use I can imagine is as an opener from stealth if I were to gank (which I despise), or a combination of Dark Flare and Total Dark (or whatever the name of the reflecting morph now is) which only works if the target is not CC immune.

What would make me be able to use the skill?
1) Get rid of the cast time (and redesign/rebalance the skill)
2) Giving us a passive increasing moving speed while casting (similar to the 1h and shield passive). This would most certainly look ridiculous, but it might work.
3) Adding major defile to Solar Barrage, so we can use this morph instead

Edit: Or maybe just make the animation time (1.7 sec) correspond to the cast time (1.1 sec). Then Dark Flare would feel more responsive and would be much more intuitive to use.

Chelos

That's what I want to do to the devs...

FizzOnly

Faulgor wrote: »

....

On a sidenote, I hope the fact the Templar feedback thread has more than twice as many pages as those for other classes tells them something ...

You are Joking?ofc it will not.It Should but it wont

nagarjunna

There have been endless requests for Target Dummies.

This is the ZOS plan for Templars to be the dummies for the other classes to practice on.

Kevmeister

Frenkthevile wrote: »

Just this, enjoy my reaction:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-rFVvYmV6iFg/VrRtPLec7cI/AAAAAAAAA4A/633ND2KWrS8/w1556-h875-no/16%2B-%2B1

I invite all the Templars that feel ''left behind'' to do the same, let's see if they like a 25% nerf to € incomes...

Taken from another thread I posted:

Kevmeister wrote: »

I know this won't matter much to most, and I'm sorry if it's OOT.

I just cancelled my sub. It may sound hasty, but I have a feeling the change will most likely make it through to Live, but probably with minor tweaks that does not help to elevate the gameplay.

I'm not one to play on many characters, despite having 6 out of the 8 filled, they aren't even well into any Vet levels aside from my main, which is a Templar, that I have spent majority if not all of the time invested in that character.

Thanks Zenimax for your time, but I won't miss it after the subs end (which is roughly 3 months from now). I'll enjoy as much as possible, then leave.

Heck, I'll even go back to Diablo 3. At least, I know that I'm playing a game I'm not wasting (additional) money invested to get screwed over by the game developers.

Mumyo

Axebleed still doesnt work on jabs even though its melee and physical dmg.

Soris

I just discovered another stealth nerf. Blazing spear stun radius decreased to its animation radius not the yellow circle you see while putting it. Test yorself please and see.

Edit, it is actually between the animation radius and that yellow circle radius. This isnt working like this in live. Why did you do this zeni?

BalticBlues

The Puncturing Sweep stealth nerf is taking my breath.

Formerly, devs only nerfed Templar's secundary skills.
Finally, devs now also nerf Templar's primary skills:

1. BOL (No.1 healing skill)
nerfed for -25% healing
(in PVE, one group member gets no healing at all anymore)

2. Puncturing Sweep (No.1 damage skill)
nerfed for -12% healing (40->35, -5% means -12% of the former amount)
(only avoidable by casting a focus and becoming a sitting duck)

ZOS, these are the TRADEMARK skills of Templars.

And these are not small adjustments, these are
massive nerfs which are entirely changing the PvE gameplay
for the worse of Templars and the groups depending on them.

Templars needed help. What you give us are massive nerfs.
The buffs (meant for PvP) are a joke compared to these massive PvE nerfs.

These changes dictate immobility and lower healing,
while the PvE devs at the same time announce that
the PvE content is getting more dynamic and demanding.

In PvP, Templars were already bad. Now they will be bad in PvE as well.
Thank you. NOT.

I cannot express how disgusted I am about wrecking my favorite game.

tinythinker

BalticBlues wrote: »

The Puncturing Sweep stealth nerf is taking my breath.

Sooo close to a good joke here. "These changes take my breath of life."

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2Lya292wdpo