Spy Addon Group Damage

Rafishul

Well done, casuals. May your mediocrity live long and prosper.

LadyNalcarya

WandaMey wrote: »

Before you all went on attacking on personalities to make 0 point over pages and pages, Anita was pointing that runs are possible by observing the mechanics whatever the dps.

yes i'm more an asset to the group if I interrupt every enemy heal with *** dps than anyone who hurt his fingers spamming his 3 skills to outdps me with 0 situational relevance.

that what Chip explained too. Zos doesn't want that.

example : tank is having a micro *** because he's outdpsing one dps player? yes maybe if he was more busy doing his tank job, the dps would have his hands free to pull some damages. Teamwork is supposed to be more efficient than the sum of each participants dps, if it isn't then there is a group problem and it's not the output of damages.

Now if you want to improve yourself FTC is enough. be better than yesterday, explain to me the mechanics, if I suck at dpsing find me something useful to do but just stop pissing me off with your number obsession. Unless you find a way to add to the dps all the damages the healer didn't have to heal and the mobs couldn't regen.

Firstly, criticizing tanks for not doing their job is very hypocritical since you cant do your dpsing job. You're basically lying to your group when you join as a dd.
Secondly, my tank has great sustain and survivability, and I can taunt pretty much every mob without asking for shards. But I have family and friends and cant waste a whole evening on a group that wants me to clear the dungeon for them, because they're so special.
When I have time, I can help a newbie that is asking in guild or zone chat, but when I group for pledges, I expect to do them in reasonable amount of time, I expect a healer to heal and I expect dds to do the damage (cause you know, dd=damage dealer). And bashing healers etc is a tank's job actually. If they lied to me about their role, why should I be nice to them?
When I group as a dd, I can usually carry a weak group and pretend that I havent seen that my total damage was 90% of boss' hp and that I had to off-heal at times, but tbh, I doubt I will continue doing that after this thread. Low dps dds in this game have much more toxic attitude than those "elitists". At least elitists can pull their weight.
P.S. And yeah, dehumanizing minmaxer and "elitists" is very, very toxic. Many casuals expect them to help and be nice while theyre always bragging how their "immersive" playstyle is better and every minmaxer is a no-lifer with mental issues.

karldavy149b16_ESO

solution to this is simple if u dont like people knowing ya dps numbers roll tank i know for a fact they wont be kicking u then as there is a major shortage of tanks atm

KallistaBlackheart

karldavy149b16_ESO wrote: »

solution to this is simple if u dont like people knowing ya dps numbers roll tank i know for a fact they wont be kicking u then as there is a major shortage of tanks atm

it's true. my main is a tank.i never need to wait for a group.
i do not like wasting time with dps that are not dps. i now have no reliable way of precisely figuring out who is not pulling their fair share of the weight. i will now be kicking a lot faster. i will be talking to every decent tank i know or come across to do the same. i am fair, i have always done this to sub-par healers.

qwyksylver

SOOO much whining...I don't understand, no one i know with this addon uses it for anything but helping Guildmates in trials and dungeon training to determine what strat would work best (burn or mechanics etc.) and who may need work on their build. I have never seen or heard of anyone getting kicked from group because of this addon. Many people have remarked that it is easy to see when dps is not pulling their weight simply by how long the fight takes and this is ENTIRELY true. If you cannot dps i will know with or without this addon and i will react in the same way (helpful tips followed by a kick if you're ignoring me or being a turd) This addon should not be thought of as a "spy addon" because we can all see if you can't kill something fast enough already. I use this addon to compare myself to others and improve or help others in my guild improve. I dearly hope that ZoS changes their stance on this or someone figures out a new way to code an addon for the same thing.

Function

RIP GroupDamage, you will be missed. Now I will now no longer be pugging with randoms.

Cously

It's a problem of communication, not an addon. DPS meters and everything else should be shown in the default UI, other people in your group's resource and even an inspect function, total transparency.

Then you can have all that and still a healthy community based on common sense.

Case #1 The Elitist
This person will most likely not pug. If they do then:

A) They must ask the pug about their DPS numbers. Pug says 25k single target. Fantastic!
They ask no questions and just take anyone who volunteered for DPS.

In case A, the pug will only be kick if he lied about his DPS. A very bad thing to do, you wasting people's time. Nobody likes lies.

In case B, the elitist must be called out on harassing the pug if he does, as he didn't ask question so should be prepared for anything.

Case #2 The Elitist Guild
This guild's goal is excellency, the leaderboards, etc.

A) They make clear to all applicants that they must fill certain conditions in order to join. Or that they are willing to give a chance and teach new players.
They just recruit whoever is V16.

In case A, the candidate will say they fill the conditions, the addon will detect the lie or not, in case of lie, the guild is totally justified in kick them. I don't know about you, but I can't trust people who lied and I wouldn't want them in my guild.

In case B, the candidate will run some dungeons or trials and might or might not be harassed for his DPS. Get yelled at, L2P Noob. In this case, you should throw your hands in the air and thank Akatosh you detected a group of idiots and didn't waste your time with them any longer. A group of horrible people kicked you just because you didn't meet x conditions that they didn't warn about, you are very lucky, why would you want to run with them?

So honestly, unless you want to lie your way into a group so they can carry you, you should have no problem with this addon. Look for end game PVE guilds that offer training. If someone harass you just point at how idiotic they are for expecting much from a pug without having asked about skills first. Don't lie about your DPS or skills. New and casual players can get much better DPS and performance with right training, but a liar isn't worth anyone's time.

Rickter

The amount of defense for this addon is astonishing.

This is what ZOS said today: "Go away elitists, we dont want you in our game"

Bravo, this was a huge victory for justice and strides in the direction of the most important thing about ESO: community.

seriously, if you think that addon was going to help you and your group, youre twisting the facts. Hooray ZOS, than kyou for sticking to your guns and doing what you had to do to preserve the soul of ESO.

Elitists: go find another game. oh there isnt a better one out there? cool, then stop trying to ruin the best mmo there is.

Shunravi

Rickter wrote: »

The amount of defense for this addon is astonishing.

This is what ZOS said today: "Go away elitists, we dont want you in our game"

Bravo, this was a huge victory for justice and strides in the direction of the most important thing about ESO: community.

seriously, if you think that addon was going to help you and your group, youre twisting the facts. Hooray ZOS, than kyou for sticking to your guns and doing what you had to do to preserve the soul of ESO.

Elitists: go find another game. oh there isnt a better one out there? cool, then stop trying to ruin the best mmo there is.

stop being toxic

LadyNalcarya

Rickter wrote: »

The amount of defense for this addon is astonishing.

This is what ZOS said today: "Go away elitists, we dont want you in our game"

Bravo, this was a huge victory for justice and strides in the direction of the most important thing about ESO: community.

seriously, if you think that addon was going to help you and your group, youre twisting the facts. Hooray ZOS, than kyou for sticking to your guns and doing what you had to do to preserve the soul of ESO.

Elitists: go find another game. oh there isnt a better one out there? cool, then stop trying to ruin the best mmo there is.

You're drunk, dude, go home.

ShadoPanauin

Rickter wrote: »

The amount of defense for this addon is astonishing.

This is what ZOS said today: "Go away elitists, we dont want you in our game"

Bravo, this was a huge victory for justice and strides in the direction of the most important thing about ESO: community.

seriously, if you think that addon was going to help you and your group, youre twisting the facts. Hooray ZOS, than kyou for sticking to your guns and doing what you had to do to preserve the soul of ESO.

Elitists: go find another game. oh there isnt a better one out there? cool, then stop trying to ruin the best mmo there is.

I think they should be focusing on a working game rather than making an elitist-free community. Also, lol'd at the "best mmo there is" thing.

maxjapank

ShadoPanauin wrote: »

ZOS continues to pander to the vocal minority. Nothing new here.

RIP GroupDamage.

Vocal minority? Perhaps. If I had been against this addon, then I probably wouldn't have spoken up about it on these forums, not with the incessant attacks from those for it. But if you check out Reddit, you'll find more players happy that the addon is no more. So it's really hard to judge, isn't it?

However, those against this addon have been in support of an Option system for those who wish to share group information. Even that suggestion was shot down by "elitist" players. I apologize for using the word "elitist". I just don't know what else to call the ones in this thread that continually called everyone "crybabies" or "carebears". But maybe the Devs will eventually let this happen.

For the time being, life just continues as it always did. Overall, players were doing just fine before this addon.

Function

maxjapank wrote: »

ShadoPanauin wrote: »

ZOS continues to pander to the vocal minority. Nothing new here.

RIP GroupDamage.

Vocal minority? Perhaps. If I had been against this addon, then I probably wouldn't have spoken up about it on these forums, not with the incessant attacks from those for it. But if you check out Reddit, you'll find more players happy that the addon is no more. So it's really hard to judge, isn't it?

However, those against this addon have been in support of an Option system for those who wish to share group information. Even that suggestion was shot down by "elitist" players. I apologize for using the word "elitist". I just don't know what else to call the ones in this thread that continually called everyone "crybabies" or "carebears". But maybe the Devs will eventually let this happen.

For the time being, life just continues as it always did. Overall, players were doing just fine before this addon.

I would think this would be completely opposite.. those who have a problem with the addon post to complain about it where those who like it don't have any reason to post besides defending it against the people who are trying to get it removed.

maxjapank

Function wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

ShadoPanauin wrote: »

ZOS continues to pander to the vocal minority. Nothing new here.

RIP GroupDamage.

Vocal minority? Perhaps. If I had been against this addon, then I probably wouldn't have spoken up about it on these forums, not with the incessant attacks from those for it. But if you check out Reddit, you'll find more players happy that the addon is no more. So it's really hard to judge, isn't it?

However, those against this addon have been in support of an Option system for those who wish to share group information. Even that suggestion was shot down by "elitist" players. I apologize for using the word "elitist". I just don't know what else to call the ones in this thread that continually called everyone "crybabies" or "carebears". But maybe the Devs will eventually let this happen.

For the time being, life just continues as it always did. Overall, players were doing just fine before this addon.

I would think this would be completely opposite.. those who have a problem with the addon post to complain about it where those who like it don't have any reason to post besides defending it against the people who are trying to get it removed.

Of course you would. . But where were all those posts and threads about having this type of addon available before ZOS unintentionally made this info available? I didn't read or hear about how the game was unplayable then. So....

anitajoneb17_ESO

Shunravi wrote: »

stop being toxic

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

You're drunk, dude, go home.

Hhhmmm.... your sense of courtesy does not have to disappear together with GroupDamage, you know...

Function

maxjapank wrote: »

Function wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

ShadoPanauin wrote: »

ZOS continues to pander to the vocal minority. Nothing new here.

RIP GroupDamage.

Vocal minority? Perhaps. If I had been against this addon, then I probably wouldn't have spoken up about it on these forums, not with the incessant attacks from those for it. But if you check out Reddit, you'll find more players happy that the addon is no more. So it's really hard to judge, isn't it?

However, those against this addon have been in support of an Option system for those who wish to share group information. Even that suggestion was shot down by "elitist" players. I apologize for using the word "elitist". I just don't know what else to call the ones in this thread that continually called everyone "crybabies" or "carebears". But maybe the Devs will eventually let this happen.

For the time being, life just continues as it always did. Overall, players were doing just fine before this addon.

I would think this would be completely opposite.. those who have a problem with the addon post to complain about it where those who like it don't have any reason to post besides defending it against the people who are trying to get it removed.

Of course you would. . But where were all those posts and threads about having this type of addon available before ZOS unintentionally made this info available? I didn't read or hear about how the game was unplayable then. So....

After my very first dungeon EVER I immediately wanted a group meter so I could see where I stood. I and many others pleaded for a group DPS meter before the game even launched and we received no answer. My point is that after two years the posts have been thinned out unlike the posts about GroupDamage which have all been within a month.

Shunravi

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

stop being toxic

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

You're drunk, dude, go home.

Hhhmmm.... your sense of courtesy does not have to disappear together with GroupDamage, you know...

how was what he said not toxic?

maxjapank

Function wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Function wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

ShadoPanauin wrote: »

ZOS continues to pander to the vocal minority. Nothing new here.

RIP GroupDamage.

Vocal minority? Perhaps. If I had been against this addon, then I probably wouldn't have spoken up about it on these forums, not with the incessant attacks from those for it. But if you check out Reddit, you'll find more players happy that the addon is no more. So it's really hard to judge, isn't it?

However, those against this addon have been in support of an Option system for those who wish to share group information. Even that suggestion was shot down by "elitist" players. I apologize for using the word "elitist". I just don't know what else to call the ones in this thread that continually called everyone "crybabies" or "carebears". But maybe the Devs will eventually let this happen.

For the time being, life just continues as it always did. Overall, players were doing just fine before this addon.

I would think this would be completely opposite.. those who have a problem with the addon post to complain about it where those who like it don't have any reason to post besides defending it against the people who are trying to get it removed.

Of course you would. . But where were all those posts and threads about having this type of addon available before ZOS unintentionally made this info available? I didn't read or hear about how the game was unplayable then. So....

After my very first dungeon EVER I immediately wanted a group meter so I could see where I stood. I and many others pleaded for a group DPS meter before the game even launched and we received no answer. My point is that after two years the posts have been thinned out unlike the posts about GroupDamage which have all been within a month.

"I and many others" is highly debatable. "Many" is a word often used to support one's argument. But in this case, we really don't know the numbers, do we?

Anyways, we are not in complete disagreement over the use of an addon such as this one. If you look back at my posts, you will see that I have continually supported an Option system. I think like-minded players and guilds who wish to share this information, should have the ability to do so. I was just not in support of it being used without the player's consent, especially for those using the Group Finder. Unfortunately, some couldn't even accept this middle ground.

Function

maxjapank wrote: »

Function wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Function wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

ShadoPanauin wrote: »

ZOS continues to pander to the vocal minority. Nothing new here.

RIP GroupDamage.

Vocal minority? Perhaps. If I had been against this addon, then I probably wouldn't have spoken up about it on these forums, not with the incessant attacks from those for it. But if you check out Reddit, you'll find more players happy that the addon is no more. So it's really hard to judge, isn't it?

However, those against this addon have been in support of an Option system for those who wish to share group information. Even that suggestion was shot down by "elitist" players. I apologize for using the word "elitist". I just don't know what else to call the ones in this thread that continually called everyone "crybabies" or "carebears". But maybe the Devs will eventually let this happen.

For the time being, life just continues as it always did. Overall, players were doing just fine before this addon.

I would think this would be completely opposite.. those who have a problem with the addon post to complain about it where those who like it don't have any reason to post besides defending it against the people who are trying to get it removed.

Of course you would. . But where were all those posts and threads about having this type of addon available before ZOS unintentionally made this info available? I didn't read or hear about how the game was unplayable then. So....

After my very first dungeon EVER I immediately wanted a group meter so I could see where I stood. I and many others pleaded for a group DPS meter before the game even launched and we received no answer. My point is that after two years the posts have been thinned out unlike the posts about GroupDamage which have all been within a month.

"I and many others" is highly debatable. "Many" is a word often used to support one's argument. But in this case, we really don't know the numbers, do we?

Anyways, we are not in complete disagreement over the use of an addon such as this one. If you look back at my posts, you will see that I have continually supported an Option system. I think like-minded players and guilds who wish to share this information, should have the ability to do so. I was just not in support of it being used without the player's consent, especially for those using the Group Finder. Unfortunately, some couldn't even accept this middle ground.

You are correct, I don't have an exact number.. I am just basing "many" from a lot of threads that I have seen by different people wanting the same thing. Search "group damage" or another similar combination into the search bar and you will see them wishing for a type of group damage meter. But yes, we do want the same thing which is some kind of compromise from ZoS, completely removing the ability to see another players damage was the wrong decision (in my opinion).. they should have just added an opt in to share the data.

Xexpo

This thread's never ending supply of salty tears is astounding.
Best sodium thread 2016

LadyNalcarya

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

stop being toxic

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

You're drunk, dude, go home.

Hhhmmm.... your sense of courtesy does not have to disappear together with GroupDamage, you know...

Yeah, bashing competitive players in this thread is absolutely fine, everyone knows that they're not people and not Zos' customers, and their only purpose is to carry casuals through dungeons and to be scapegoats if casuals find something in game not casual enough.
At the start of the discussion I was just wondering why anyone would need such addons to estimate group dps because its obvious. I was honestly trying to understand my opponents, and I can actually understand some of the opinions I dont share. But you know, courtesy only works if both sides accept it. And in the end "carebears" turned out to be much bigger jerks, self-centered and narrow-minded, that those they were complaining about. The post I quoted illustrates it perfectly.

Xexpo

The standards of maturity for this thread were set on page one.

omfgitsbatman

@ZOS_AntonioP
In this post are many inflammatory, disruptive, and unconstructive comments. I believe 20+ pages ago would be the correct time to close this thread just like this othe one: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/243177/spy-addon-master-merchant/p1

Miszou wrote: »

Ackwalan wrote: »

I don't think it is a problem for other people to know my dps and hps. The game is much better when the elitists wall themselves off from the people who are having fun.

IDGAF if elitists wall themselves off from everyone else - until they start kicking people from groups.

But... IDGAF personally, because as a tank I can get another group in under a minute. But there's gonna be an uprising if this gets abused and large numbers of DPS find themselves repeatedly kicked to the curb because some goober needs "real" players to carry his useless carcass through a dungeon...

Slayyer-AUS wrote: »

CRY CRY CRY CRY CRY LMFAOOOOOO

Miszou wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

timidobserver wrote: »

This is pretty disappointing, but I pretty much figured as much. Honestly, if I had figured what the author of this add-on did, I would have never posted the add-on publically.

Don't regret : I (or anyone else feeling like me about it) would have started a discussion about it as soon as we'd have found out anyway... at least this way, the author won't invest work into it for "nothing"...

If you don't like these things then take your carebear cancer back to skyrim and don't participate in an mmo. If you're in my group and your dps is sucking a fat one then I deserve to know you are getting carried so I can either A. Help you with your build or B. Know not to rez you if you die.

If you don't like all the info given to you on pc then you can always just go to console, where there is a distinct lack of any information, and enjoy all the immurshuns

Between your commentary and your signature, you sound like the sort of awful person that this mod was designed for. Bravo, sir.

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

asneakybanana wrote: »

I'm not really a fan of the whole kick you out of the group because you suck thing. The only time I will stop helping commanding you and simply kick you out or running with you is if you refuse to learn obey and being ignorant refuse to get enlightened by my great knowledge.

Fixed it for you.

Cuyler wrote: »

At the time of my post the author hadn't posted sooo yea not sure why u so salty I asked for a source.

Because doubting a quote that's brought by a screenshot and asking for a source that you could have found by yourself in 10 seconds is far over the top.

asneakybanana wrote: »

If you don't like these things then take your carebear cancer back to skyrim and don't participate in an mmo.

Nice to meet you, too.

---

Why ask anyone for an authorization to be photographed ? Everybody knows that the only people who don't want to be on a picture are the ones who know that they are fat and ugly, that's the only true reason for anyone to refuse a photograph.


.

Rafishul wrote: »

Well done, casuals. May your mediocrity live long and prosper.

...it goes on and on...

KallistaBlackheart

the lack of understanding of privacy and consent by those who do not want this addon or addons like it is dismally simplistic.
the lack of ability to see the hypocrisy in "i want to play my way and not be called out for low performance" vs "elite players are all bad and all have rude motivations." would be laughable if not for the apparent effect it has had on keeping the capabilities of this addon....
the amount of word twisting in order to push one side of this argument is frustrating..... dare i say truly toxic.

anitajoneb17_ESO

Shunravi wrote: »

how was what he said not toxic?

IMHO his/her interpretation of ZOS' decision might be a little bit extreme, but expressing it is not "toxic", and in any case throwing this without adding anything else is insulting, not constructive.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Yeah, bashing competitive players in this thread is absolutely fine, everyone knows that they're not people and not Zos' customers, and their only purpose is to carry casuals through dungeons and to be scapegoats if casuals find something in game not casual enough.
At the start of the discussion I was just wondering why anyone would need such addons to estimate group dps because its obvious. I was honestly trying to understand my opponents, and I can actually understand some of the opinions I dont share. But you know, courtesy only works if both sides accept it. And in the end "carebears" turned out to be much bigger jerks, self-centered and narrow-minded, that those they were complaining about. The post I quoted illustrates it perfectly.

Courtesy works both sides, yes, and I assume you remember without having to read everything again that casual players have had more than their share of disrespectful name calling in this thread ("carebear cancer"...), IMHO far more than vice-versa.
Then again IMHO insults is what's left when someone's run out of arguments.

.

anitajoneb17_ESO

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

karldavy149b16_ESO wrote: »

solution to this is simple if u dont like people knowing ya dps numbers roll tank i know for a fact they wont be kicking u then as there is a major shortage of tanks atm

it's true. my main is a tank.i never need to wait for a group.
i do not like wasting time with dps that are not dps. i now have no reliable way of precisely figuring out who is not pulling their fair share of the weight. i will now be kicking a lot faster. i will be talking to every decent tank i know or come across to do the same. i am fair, i have always done this to sub-par healers.

KallistaBlackheart wrote: »

the lack of understanding of privacy and consent by those who do not want this addon or addons like it is dismally simplistic.
the lack of ability to see the hypocrisy in "i want to play my way and not be called out for low performance" vs "elite players are all bad and all have rude motivations." would be laughable if not for the apparent effect it has had on keeping the capabilities of this addon....
the amount of word twisting in order to push one side of this argument is frustrating..... dare i say truly toxic.

Your lack of understanding that your attitude towards LFG-team members as described by yourself is exactly why this add-on had been prevented from working is astounding. You're the one who feels entitled to kick, and kick quickly, if your team members don't play the way YOU want (high DPS, quick runs). Read again what ZOS people said, especially Mr. Chip : players like you ARE the reason why they made this decision.
You say it yourself : now you're gonna act even worse, as a form of "revenge", and tell your fellow players to do the same. How is that being nice, mature, social and non-toxic ? please explain.

.

KallistaBlackheart

that didn't take long.
case in point...............


how one can so drastically misconstrue anthers words is beyond me.

Enodoc

Shunravi wrote: »

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

stop being toxic

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

You're drunk, dude, go home.

Hhhmmm.... your sense of courtesy does not have to disappear together with GroupDamage, you know...

how was what he said not toxic?

It's no more or less toxic than a number of other posts in this thread, and that has gone both ways. The competitive players have bashed the "carebears", the casual players have bashed the "elitists". But the facts are that ZOS has patched out an unintentional feature of the code, which was never going to stick around as it was unintentional, and are considering options for how the data can be shared in a less covert manner.

ZOS_ChipHilseberg wrote:

A checkbox is something we considered and are considering. The issue with that approach is that it doesn't really provide much help in the pick-up group case which is the one that has most potential for problems. We can assume that if you are grouping with friends that they won't give you a hard time. With your guild, it's the guild's values that matter and you can choose to commit to a guild that matches your values. But for the pick-up group, the DPS meter really points up the DPS component pf group success which can lead to situations where a person has a bad first pull, or a person is capable of succeeding with the group as a whole but is below a threshold that leader decides is good enough, and they are kicked. DPS is just one component of group success and relying on it exclusively as a metric for whether the group can succeed or not can destroy perfectly good groups. Putting a checkbox in would let the player hide their DPS, but my guess is that it would just turn into a situation where they are forced to turn on the setting or be kicked. A player choosing to not show DPS would be assumed to be bad. On the other hand, something like only allowing the full info in trials, or only allowing it in premade groups (not LFG) would take the pressure and control away from individual players. None of this is to say that any of these other solutions will be used. I just wanted to point out that having a checkbox isn't necessarily a perfect solution. Finding something that would highlight the good parts of DPS meters (learning and optimization) while minimizing the bad parts (kicking anyone under X DPS on the first pull) would be the goal. Any ideas on that front would be constructive feedback.

Shunravi

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Shunravi wrote: »

how was what he said not toxic?

IMHO his/her interpretation of ZOS' decision might be a little bit extreme, but expressing it is not "toxic", and in any case throwing this without adding anything else is insulting, not constructive.

KoshkaMurka wrote: »

Yeah, bashing competitive players in this thread is absolutely fine, everyone knows that they're not people and not Zos' customers, and their only purpose is to carry casuals through dungeons and to be scapegoats if casuals find something in game not casual enough.
At the start of the discussion I was just wondering why anyone would need such addons to estimate group dps because its obvious. I was honestly trying to understand my opponents, and I can actually understand some of the opinions I dont share. But you know, courtesy only works if both sides accept it. And in the end "carebears" turned out to be much bigger jerks, self-centered and narrow-minded, that those they were complaining about. The post I quoted illustrates it perfectly.

Courtesy works both sides, yes, and I assume you remember without having to read everything again that casual players have had more than their share of disrespectful name calling in this thread ("carebear cancer"...), IMHO far more than vice-versa.
Then again IMHO insults is what's left when someone's run out of arguments.

.

Exactly. We can stop being toxic now. It's over and done with. Or did you not read what he said about community?

Woeler

kaer426 wrote: »

This thread's never ending supply of salty tears is astounding.
Best sodium thread 2016