Not going back to veteran Maelstrom Arena until it is nerfed on consoles.

pronkg

Casdha wrote: »

Cîanai wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

vMA isn't the issue... class balancing is the issue!

Thats why they made classleaderboards.

Ha, yea, they inadvertently have shown the class and race imbalance players have been screaming about forever and ZOS has thus far refused to acknowledge. Now lets see if they do anything about it.

Sorry but ZOS has done tons about combat balance actually, theyre just not there yet. The game is totally different combat wise since release

pronkg

Ogrim are obese

Greiver

VMA is very difficult to the general gamer. I spent 4 hours and 60 deaths only to get to the ice round and give up after a few more deaths. Only problems I see with it are some of the mechanics of a few rounds and the difficulty might be just a bit to high. The round with the strangers was really irritating. I would get pulled across the map by them and then teleport back to where I was pulled from, causing me to die multiple times. I would really like a save function on this. Even if it meant removing me from any leader board. I could careless about being on any leaderboards. I just want to complete it for a chance at a Maelstrom weapon.

ZOS_Finn

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Bugs of course are a top priority. We can take a look at these and address them to make sure they don't artificially inflate the challenge. You should see more on that in a future patch.

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

As I said before, I know this is not what some of you want to hear but I hope some of the things we are looking at can mitigate some of the frustrations you may have. Keep at it.

Cathexis

Ok i am all for things challenging players. I love challenging content, I really do. I dont want to take that away from people.

BUT:

There is a fine line between challenging and stupid.

When the cost of running the arena outweighs the benefit, it becomes stupid. This could be resolved as simply as giving free repairs while in the arena.

There is also a fine line between challenging and segregating.

When only a handful of builds actually work in a game that is supposed to embrace build theory crafting and diversity, what happens is you then basically deny players content who don't conform to a small set of play styles. That's bad for the game.

For example my tank sorc will NEVER complete vet maelstrom, not because it's a poor role choice even, but just because he's a tank.

Lastly, there is a fine line between challenging and instant kill mechanics.

Instant kill mechanics, especially random ones, really add a layer of futility to the arena. When I am trying my hardset and doing really well and right near the end of a fight I get randomly one shotted from across the map, it's really disheartening. Not because it's too hard but because it's an element you have absolutely no control over. Random instant kill mechanics that can't be avoided are in reality just poor design.

pronkg

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Bugs of course are a top priority. We can take a look at these and address them to make sure they don't artificially inflate the challenge. You should see more on that in a future patch.

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

As I said before, I know this is not what some of you want to hear but I hope some of the things we are looking at can mitigate some of the frustrations you may have. Keep at it.

Thank you very much. All seems good and reasonable

Overbowed

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Bugs of course are a top priority. We can take a look at these and address them to make sure they don't artificially inflate the challenge. You should see more on that in a future patch.

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

As I said before, I know this is not what some of you want to hear but I hope some of the things we are looking at can mitigate some of the frustrations you may have. Keep at it.

On the contrary, this is exactly what many players would like to hear. I applaud you not brashly listening to the crying on the forums, as for every rage post there are ten more players happily ingame who have little reason to be on the forums. Thankyou for keeping something people can aspire that isn't just a walk in the park.

Casdha

pronkg wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

Cîanai wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

vMA isn't the issue... class balancing is the issue!

Thats why they made classleaderboards.

Ha, yea, they inadvertently have shown the class and race imbalance players have been screaming about forever and ZOS has thus far refused to acknowledge. Now lets see if they do anything about it.

Sorry but ZOS has done tons about combat balance actually, theyre just not there yet. The game is totally different combat wise since release

I agree, Sorcerers were the worst class to play when the game launched and 2 handed was the worst weapon to have.

Catblade

Saving progress is really all I need so that I don't have to sit there an unhealthy amount of time to learn it.

Thelon

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Bugs of course are a top priority. We can take a look at these and address them to make sure they don't artificially inflate the challenge. You should see more on that in a future patch.

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

As I said before, I know this is not what some of you want to hear but I hope some of the things we are looking at can mitigate some of the frustrations you may have. Keep at it.

Best Dev post 2015.

Catblade

Thelon wrote: »

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Bugs of course are a top priority. We can take a look at these and address them to make sure they don't artificially inflate the challenge. You should see more on that in a future patch.

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

As I said before, I know this is not what some of you want to hear but I hope some of the things we are looking at can mitigate some of the frustrations you may have. Keep at it.

Best Dev post 2015.

Yeah they said they had no intentions of going b2p either. He was probably one of the devs talking trash to me on twitter about it, but guess what? B2p

HeroOfNone

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Bugs of course are a top priority. We can take a look at these and address them to make sure they don't artificially inflate the challenge. You should see more on that in a future patch.

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

As I said before, I know this is not what some of you want to hear but I hope some of the things we are looking at can mitigate some of the frustrations you may have. Keep at it.

I hope you use this data to improve the class imbalances. It seems obvious that certain classes and builds greatly out perform others. It also shows how hybrud, sustain, and heavy armor are trivialized to being nearly worthless in the current patch.

Rioht

I agree that the arena is a bit too difficult.

Even for my v16 sorc with all gold vr16 gear with vr16 gold enchants and 250cp I haven't even completed stage 1. Mind you I only tried about 5-6 times and the instant 1 hit kills ruined it for me. Haven't touched eso since day 1 of orsinium as a result.

Been playing fallout until its a bit more reasonable.

Preyfar

Cathexis wrote: »

Ok i am all for things challenging players. I love challenging content, I really do. I dont want to take that away from people.

I am fine with the challenge of VMA. I am not fine with the bugs (e.g. the teleporting strangler problem that resulted in tons of useless, needless deaths). Challenge = good. Round 2 is a challenge for a lot of people until they can understand the pattern, how to weave in an out, use the levers best. But outright bugs can make a legitimate challenge borderline nightmarish.

Having VMA be difficult gives people an end game arena to triumph over. It shouldn't be won by everyone. Regular MA is for that.

Ghost-Shot

Alcast wrote: »

Why do ppl always think that other ppl use macros?

Because they are bad and dont understand game mechanics, so clearly you are cheating.

Ghost-Shot

Justice31st wrote: »

FENGRUSH wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

Justice31st wrote: »

I am tired of these 1% players who keep posting veteran malestrom arena videos who have the best gear, items and maxed out champion points.

Many use keyboard macros and other cheats.
9 trait gear needed.
No addons on consoles which give a big advantage.

No idea how anyone can deny the power of having addons, razer naga keyboard macros and mouse to do a lot of the work for PC players vs. consoles. Bad attempt on trolling with a image btw.

Don't think many people are using macros, since they are a bannable offence.

What power do addons give me btw? I can see damage numbers, but so far have yet to find an addon thst increases my dps or defence.

Oh and BTW macros have been proven to be ineffective in combat previously, infact they put you at a disadvantage as you're entered into a preprogrammed set of events, yet if something screws up in the middle of it you can't do anything to react.

Lol... People add the cancel command on the line of code so if they press it again it cancels to prevent that very issue from happening... I am done.

Quit trolling my threads bruh.

Your ignorance does that just fine.

So what does this "Cancel command" in the line of code do again?

@Fengrush I may have found someone more paranoid than Khan.

Do you happen use a macro keyboard by any chance?

What does one macro in VMA?! Ill be doing my weekly run tonight on cam - if you want me to stream how I press the buttons I could do that, let me know.

I wasn't accusing you personally. I was actually watching your stream the first day you completed it on your stamina sorcerer. I have even been the top donater before. However, I am disappointed that you are speaking for the PC players as a whole and saying none use peripherals such as the razer naga programmable macro keyboard in vMA.

You know that a razer naga is a mouse right? Not a keyboard. And this game really doesnt lend itself well to macros, it generally lags to much for macros to be very effective. If animation canceling is what you are referring to its also doable on consoles if you get good.

WebBull

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

This needs to be top priority, not back burner.

Contraptions

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Bugs of course are a top priority. We can take a look at these and address them to make sure they don't artificially inflate the challenge. You should see more on that in a future patch.

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

As I said before, I know this is not what some of you want to hear but I hope some of the things we are looking at can mitigate some of the frustrations you may have. Keep at it.

I appreciate the response, and have to admit I'm disappointed at your decision. Still, the communication is nice, so I'll respond with some of my feedback.

While this notion of having some "challenging" content for people to "aspire" to complete sounds nice, I have to honestly say that the way that the arena is set up provides no motivation for most of us to improve. I myself don't play games for the "challenge", whatever that means.

First, the bugs. I have seen ridiculous things happening like mobs from different waves spawn simultaneously, to smaller but noticeable things like unresponsive CC breaks, invisible indicators and the greater RNG reliance on certain rounds. For someone like me who isn't in NA or EU physically, my ping pretty much guarantees I'll die from something that I thought I had avoided, but the server decided didn't count. The lurchers in Igneous Cistern are especially annoying, since their red circle indicators don't seem to match up with their attacks at all. While you can't fix ping and lag, the tight timing on some mechanics makes it feel like anytime I make a mistake I'll die. It's like walking on a tightrope for hours on end. Not that much fun honestly.

Secondly, the mechanics issues. ESO will never be a truly "challenging" game because the game doesn't obey its own rules. The Lava Tremor attack from the lurchers in round 8 for example. If you get hit by it without taking blocking, you simply take damage. But if you block and get hit by it, it staggers you as well. Why? Where else in the game does blocking INCREASE the amount of CC you receive? The Flame Knight boss of that round can somehow use Low Slash when it's wielding a two-hander. The Wamasu of round 7 displays an interrupt indicator for its Storm Bound attack when that attack can't be interrupted. Some bosses in certain rounds can be CCed but others can't. These small things go against everything else the game has taught you so far and are not challenging. Sure, sure, adapt and all that. But you can't deny the frustration that a player feels when the game suddenly pulls the mechanics rug from under you and kills you with no other reason than "because". And if those mechanics issues ruin a flawless run, that's a ragequit moment. I won't begin to detail the difference in difficulty for stam vs magicka, ranged vs melee etc. but there is definitely a large difference. I've bugged reported this since the PTS, and not surprisingly it still hasn't been fixed.

Third, the lazy design. Why is vMA challenging but nMA not? The mobs and mechanics are the same. The only difference is the NUMBERS. More health, more damage, more DPS needed, more healing etc. IMO, there is nothing challenging about a stat check. It just reeks of laziness, like the devs just couldn't be bothered to program new enemies or mechanics and just arbitrarily slapped a multiplier on simpler content and then proclaimed it "challenging". No. To me it's just cheap.

Fourth, the rewards. You claim that completing vMA is rewarding. Sure, intangible rewards like the feeling of "achievement", bragging rights etc. is great, but for me is a non-factor. The intangible can be a great motivator for people to complete it the first time, but after the initial rush what else is left? The physical rewards like gold and loot. And in this aspect vMA is a complete disappointment. The RNG and BOP combine to make running vMA a huge gold sink. If you want people to run this more, or want to run this more, increase the damn rewards. Or decrease the difficulty. RNG + poor rewards + high difficulty = one and done. Or worse, people giving up or not even bothering.

Lastly, while the save function sound nice, I can't help but wonder why you would want to jump through various technical hoops when a simple difficulty reduction would suffice. When the save function comes out, assuming it even will, it's likely going to be several months from now and by that time most of the player base will have moved onto the next big piece of content, which I'm guessing will be a new dungeon or trial. MA needs short term fixes and re-balancing. Yes, I'm asking for a nerf. And I don't care if that makes me "causal".

pronkg

Casdha wrote: »

pronkg wrote: »

Casdha wrote: »

Cîanai wrote: »

James-Wayne wrote: »

vMA isn't the issue... class balancing is the issue!

Thats why they made classleaderboards.

Ha, yea, they inadvertently have shown the class and race imbalance players have been screaming about forever and ZOS has thus far refused to acknowledge. Now lets see if they do anything about it.

Sorry but ZOS has done tons about combat balance actually, theyre just not there yet. The game is totally different combat wise since release

I agree, Sorcerers were the worst class to play when the game launched and 2 handed was the worst weapon to have.

Exactly

pronkg

Rioht wrote: »

I agree that the arena is a bit too difficult.

Even for my v16 sorc with all gold vr16 gear with vr16 gold enchants and 250cp I haven't even completed stage 1. Mind you I only tried about 5-6 times and the instant 1 hit kills ruined it for me. Haven't touched eso since day 1 of orsinium as a result.

Been playing fallout until its a bit more reasonable.

Stage one should be a walk in the park if you have the right gear and skill setup as sor, sorry

TotterTates

The only thing that makes me sad is the fact that I can't pull off the 440k scores on my melee stam DK. I still have room for improvement, but I struggle to see myself pulling a sub 65 minute time.

-Edit-

Oh and the fact that I have 26 bows, 12 staves, and ONE defending maul.

Greiver

Honestly with the crap drops I'm getting (not 1 set item in 6 attempts), I'd rather just farm the sewers.... getting the same v16 blue and purples drops... Bad RnG rewards and even worse mechanics/bugs are the reason I no longer bother with it. Not to mention no saved progression. They say the are looking I to a save function for vMa. How hard can it be if you already have it on the normal version....

MisterBigglesworth

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it re-roll to a shield-stacking magicka Sorc. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

FTFY

pdebie64b16_ESO

I wish normal msa was a bit harder with a chance for a Mealstrom weapon, its to easy now, i can almost one shot everything except bosses even with my v7 nb.

zornyan

pdebie64b16_ESO wrote: »

I wish normal msa was a bit harder with a chance for a Mealstrom weapon, its to easy now, i can almost one shot everything except bosses even with my v7 nb.

Go in naked, remove all cp, done it's now harder.

zornyan

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Bugs of course are a top priority. We can take a look at these and address them to make sure they don't artificially inflate the challenge. You should see more on that in a future patch.

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

As I said before, I know this is not what some of you want to hear but I hope some of the things we are looking at can mitigate some of the frustrations you may have. Keep at it.

Thank you for this , I am glad to hear zos is not going to cater to crybabies that want gold master weapons to be handed out willy nilly. If they made it any easier they would have to nerf the gold time weekly reward to blue quality.

cyx54tc

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Bugs of course are a top priority. We can take a look at these and address them to make sure they don't artificially inflate the challenge. You should see more on that in a future patch.

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

As I said before, I know this is not what some of you want to hear but I hope some of the things we are looking at can mitigate some of the frustrations you may have. Keep at it.

how about buying maelstrom arena weapon with AP?

Callous2208

zornyan wrote: »

A WebMD and mayo clinic post? Might as well go pick up the sun lol. You really are just trolling now.

Umm, disregarding the fact you are insisting someone is a child/immature while continuing to argue with them in a battle to have the last word, what did you mean by the above? Web MD sure but...are you saying the Mayo Clinic is an invalid source for medical research?

zornyan

Callous2208 wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

A WebMD and mayo clinic post? Might as well go pick up the sun lol. You really are just trolling now.

Umm, disregarding the fact you are insisting someone is a child/immature while continuing to argue with them in a battle to have the last word, what did you mean by the above? Web MD sure but...are you saying the Mayo Clinic is an invalid source for medical research?

I think their all pretty bad imo, one good truthful fact for every 20 made up/unproven/bs etc, WebMD is obviously far worse, but I believe all of these websites are bad, I've know people that have ignored serious health problems because a website said its not a problem, or others than have spent tons of time at their local doctors when they don't even need to go because a website said so.

All the websites do is make people hypochondriacs, if you belive even half of what they wrote you'd think the human race should be extinct by now.

Callous2208

zornyan wrote: »

Callous2208 wrote: »

zornyan wrote: »

A WebMD and mayo clinic post? Might as well go pick up the sun lol. You really are just trolling now.

Umm, disregarding the fact you are insisting someone is a child/immature while continuing to argue with them in a battle to have the last word, what did you mean by the above? Web MD sure but...are you saying the Mayo Clinic is an invalid source for medical research?

I think their all pretty bad imo, one good truthful fact for every 20 made up/unproven/bs etc, WebMD is obviously far worse, but I believe all of these websites are bad, I've know people that have ignored serious health problems because a website said its not a problem, or others than have spent tons of time at their local doctors when they don't even need to go because a website said so.

All the websites do is make people hypochondriacs, if you belive even half of what they wrote you'd think the human race should be extinct by now.

On this point...I must concede I agree with you.