Not going back to veteran Maelstrom Arena until it is nerfed on consoles.

Greiver

I just want the bugs and ignorant Rng fixed. Still trying to figure out how the Cyrodiil lag has managed to find it'd way into the solo content. Weapon swaps being delayed and abilities not activating when I'm pressing the buttons is the main cause of deaths for me. Beyond frustrating. This game has the potential to be amazing, but all the bugs, lag, and horrible community relations is going to kill this game... already pushed many away and slowly me too.

Heindrich

avid_mdb16_ESO wrote: »

Heindrich wrote: »

Omg the entitlement is real.

vMA is supposed to be hard. Aspire to be better. Stop crying for nerfs.

I was a scrub once. I still am compared to really good players. I can comfortably make vMA weekly scores now. Guess how I did it?

My first attempt ended in total failure after I reached the final boss, but felt physically sick from the effort of getting there over the course of 8 hrs. I spent almost 2 hrs wiping on the final boss and ragequit. My second attempt I finally completed in about 6 hrs and getting a *** 361 score, but hey, at least now I know what to do. My third attempt took 3 hrs, then 2 hrs, then 1hr 40mins... etc... yesterday I did it in 1 hr 18mins and 6 deaths, 405k score. I don't even have a Molag Kena mask to make my build ideal yet.

My point is behind all the amazing scores and Youtube videos is hours of practise, learning and self-improvement. Stop being so damned entitled to expect results without putting in the grind, and trying to deny others something to aspire to just because you are too lazy to work for it yourself.

Ok now try doing it on your stamina DK and then lets talk.

I will absolutely do it on my Stam DK... eventually. I am not waiting for nerf to vMA to do it, but my DK doesn't have enough skill points for bow skills, no Caltrops, no undaunted mettle etc... When I get her setup properly, I will go through the pain barrier and complete vMA on DK so that I can have two characters in Maelstorm weekly every week

Given the lack of competition from DKs, just completing will be guaranteed weekly spot! That's why I will try Stam DK before Magicka NB, which I believe will take a greater effort for me since many NBs are already very proficient and I'll need a good score to get into weekly.

And the funny thing is... I really am a mediocre player. I don't time my skills well, I can barely animation cancel and I make mistakes under pressure. But... I am too damned optimistic to be discouraged by horror stories, too damned stupid to give up once I start! As long as I can see room for improvement, I will keep going until I reach my goals. If Deltia can do it, why can't I?!

That more than anything else is why I don't want vMA nerfed to appease casuals. I want my achievements to be worthwhile and meaningful.

Didgerion

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.
........

Can we see that data as well? Are you sure you are happy about it. Because to me it looks like the majority of your customers are not happy.

I don't want a VMA nerf. I want tools that would make VMA fair for all classes and builds.
Here are some suggestions:
1. Add shield brake abilities in maelstrom arena to balance shield staking.
2. Add magica healing debuffs to balance stamina vs magica healing.
3. Make the arena more melee friendly or less range friendly to balance range VS melee builds.
4. Add renewable buff sigils at an increased penalty cost. Let everybody be able to pass VMA but be ranked properly.

I'm not happy with the current state of VMA. And if nothing changes there is a workaround for me. I have a VR1 magica sorcerer and will do VMA once VR is removed.
But why do I need this work around? It surely cries for a VMA re-balance.

And please double check you data because I have the workaround but others leave the game.

Didgerion

Heindrich wrote: »

And the funny thing is... I really am a mediocre player. I don't time my skills well, I can barely animation cancel and I make mistakes under pressure. But... I am too damned optimistic to be discouraged by horror stories, too damned stupid to give up once I start! As long as I can see room for improvement, I will keep going until I reach my goals. If Deltia can do it, why can't I?!

That more than anything else is why I don't want vMA nerfed to appease casuals. I want my achievements to be worthwhile and meaningful.

Well first of all - Deltia is a very experienced player that plays the game a lot (less lately).
Second of all - Deltia and other streamers have a great community support. They just ask for gear and the players are giving it to them. A regular player will need much more time and resources to acquire that gear.

I don't want a VMA nerf either I just want a fair VMA to everyone.

Sithisvoid

Mediocre is a good thing. That's right before getting good. You got past bad so that's behind you.

Cathexis

Dubhliam wrote: »

Cathexis wrote: »

...
When the cost of running the arena outweighs the benefit, it becomes stupid. This could be resolved as simply as giving free repairs while in the arena.
...

Uhm... let's see... Maelstrom weapons? End game weapons. How much would you pay for one? If your answer is 50k, then yes: it is not beneficial (for you).

Cathexis wrote: »

...
For example my tank sorc will NEVER complete vet maelstrom, not because it's a poor role choice even, but just because he's a tank.
...

Uhh... I have a tank. Do I go into vMA and expect to beat it in that gear? No. I crafted myself a new set just for vMA, bought Willpower jewlery, respecced my CP and attributes, and THEN I go vMA. That is the whole point of the solo arena. So that people get out of their boring old comfort gear and try new things.

Btw, you can be a tank with full attributes into magicka and 0 CP points into Block Expertise.

Maelstrom weapons are relatively not useful to my PvP build since they I would only use a 2 hand and it would remove a set bonus in exchange for a dot. The trade off for me is not favourable so yeah probably 50k is about what its worth to me. I get that it might be worth more to others.

Also the relevance of your point about magicka tanking eludes me. I never made the argument you couldn't be a tank without stamina, full tank spec, or using magicka. Just that VMA doesn't allow you to run a tank build.

Also respecing CP for VMA is a huuuge cost if you PvP with a completely different build. That prereq for me just makes it even more not worth it.

Heindrich

avid_mdb16_ESO wrote: »

Second of all - Deltia and other streamers have a great community support. They just ask for gear and the players are giving it to them. A regular player will need much more time and resources to acquire that gear.

I am much richer than Deltia (in terms of gold) I'm always quite surprised when I see streamers making do with non-optimal gear because they cannot afford it, like King Richard's stam sorc uses Epic gear rather than Legendary.

As with everything in life, the more intelligence and effort you apply to something, the more you are likely to get out of it. I have made the effort to be a great trader, so of course I am much richer than Deltia, even with the donations he gets. He plays PvE much more than me, so of course he is more proficient in vDSA, Trials and VMA, and that's fine! The problem arises when people want, nay when they feel entitled and demand, to get things that they were not willing to invest into.

avid_mdb16_ESO wrote: »

I'm not happy with the current state of VMA. And if nothing changes there is a workaround for me. I have a VR1 magica sorcerer and will do VMA once VR is removed.

Given that your sorc is only VR1, I think (assuming vMA isn't nerfed by then) you will get a nasty surprise when you attempt vMA with your sorc once VR ranks are removed. Is vMA easier on Sorcs compared to DKs and Templars? Sure... Is it easy? Absolutely not.

I have a friend who plays Templar most of the time, very experienced and capable player... he decided to try vMA on his Sorc since everybody said it was much easier... except because he was not experienced with the class and the play style, he failed miserably... and after ragequitting his second attempt (after many hours invested), decided to do it on his Templar afterall... And he completed it on first attempt. It wasn't easy, the score wasn't pretty, but he is clearly a much better Templar player than Sorc player, and ultimately, every class of both stamina and magicka variants can complete vMA, if you are willing to be patient and don't ragequit when it undoubtedly goes wrong... repeatedly... again, and again... and again...

pdebie64b16_ESO

I see myself as a mediocre player, i tried very hard on Vmsa with different classes all in legendary gear with capped cp, but i cant get past stage 3 (made it two times to stage4)

Now that we know there will be no nerf for the current Vmsa i can do a few things:

Forget Vmsa (the weapons arent game breaking)

Cry a river on the forums

Hope till ZOS atleast fix the bugs

Keep trying until iam so sick of my failing that i ragequit

Wait for a next DLC with better weapons then the current Vmsa ones

I think i keep trying (without a ragequit)
For everyone who cant complete it, we have to deal with it (or try harder).

Cuyler

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Ain't nobody got time for balance. Am I right!?

Thavie

but it is very rewarding

Are you sure?..

hayaschwarz

I do agree on the premises of the thread in overall, although I disagree on some of the details.
I do finish the arena on all 4 classes on a weekly basis, because it is easy when you get the mechanics (which I consider not a mechanic, but a routine of programmed behavior for the mobs). And as @Justice31st accused, I don’t use keyboard macros or cheats, and the only add-on I use relevant to the arena is FTC for damage tracking, and recount/FTC combat log to observe the incoming damage (helps to analyze what killed me to be avoided next attempt). Add-ons like Srrendar to track buffs and debuffs aren’t relevant for me in the arena, I am just used to it being there. A friend of mine using almost the same setups inlc. gear and addons have 2 complete videos about it:
magicka Templar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38s7LZr7hgA
Magicka Nightblade: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=atAwkuQZwgs

Nerfing the difficulty of the arena will also change nothing for the weekly challenge, as the 1% will still excel at the final score with reduced difficulty. But I know for fact, that so many people aren’t able to finish the arena on Veteran only for the sake of the achievement. Which makes the whole content not really fair to the community.

The repair cost of the arena is completely proportional to the failure ratio, as when you die your gear loses durability. And the completions of the arena successfully is dependent on the usage of potions, but it can be still finished with normal lootable potions (ie. Sorcerer with power surge). But I do agree how it can get really expensive to finish the arena, especially if the player is failing.

But after all, it is an end game content, which means you don’t expect to go there on VR1 or lvl45 character and finish it, otherwise it would be ridicules. You will need a fully geared VR16 character, which you can play very good and loaded with potions for the first time achievement. After the first time it only gets easier, everyone agrees on that. It doesn’t matter which class you are playing, nor if you are ranged or melee (although sorcerers have a good balance for the maelstrom arena). What matter is that you are geared for DPS and do know how to DPS effectively, because ESO is about burst and not about sustained prolonged fights (consider all dungeons and trials).

Where the maelstrom arena gets frustrating is at some bugs (although very rare), stupid mechanics like the poison in 7th arena or the standard of the final boss in 8th arena 4th round (had been fixed), and mobs burst mechanics, for example the 7th arena 4th round with the 3 archers, or the 5th arena 3rd and 4th round with the ranged ice casters, and other many examples. But after you have met them, you need only to keep in mind when there is such situations, and think your way through them, or watch online videos how other players are handling them (I do still think that some of the burst mobs can be made more player friendly by reducing their damage by 10%, but not all mobs!). In conclusion, the arena needs some effort on the player part to comprehend the mechanics and memorize the waves of mobs, and it becomes after that just like any normal dungeon, that takes an hour or so to complete.

The only things that I can see needed adjustment are:
- First, the time available for completion. Lots of the players are people who have jobs, and mostly not lots of time to play. And for completing the arena for the first time, you might need up to 4-5 hours. Having the possibility with the VR Arena to continue where you left last time, will help lots of players to complete it (that is only available for the normal version, which is completely absurd due to the difficulty level).
- Second, the arena isn’t rewarding! After completing the arena for almost 20 times on VR mode, I got only twice a maelstrom weapon from the last chest. Which will make it almost impossible to obtain maelstrom weapons for players who are struggling to finish. ZOS had already changed the weekly reward to be maelstrom weapons only, which makes the game doesn’t drop any VR16 golden jewelry! As the clothing sets of the arena are completely useless compared to craftable and other lootable sets, there is no point of having the last box dropping pieces of those sets. If the last box have something like 75% chance to drop maelstrom weapons and the weekly reward have the weapons and the jewelry, it would be more worthwhile and more rewarding for everyone who finishes the arena.

Although I got my fair share of frustration in the arena, and I hope it won’t get to other players, it became really easy after couple of times… It just needs a bit of thinking and willpower to finish it!

Matherios

[img][/img] screen shot
I did on ps4 europe server im the only stamina who has done it on no death.[img][/img] upload pics
My stats could be better more weapon,more crit,more stamina and health.

Heindrich

Matherios wrote: »

[img][/img] screen shot
I did on ps4 europe server im the only stamina who has done it on no death.[img][/img] upload pics
My stats could be better more weapon,more crit,more stamina and health.

Great job!

You get a new title for no death run? I'm surprised I haven't seen any "Flawless Conqueror" around at all... If you can get it then I'd be motivated to use a few more sigils just to get it done! Stormproof is becoming a bit common on PC ^^

TotterTates

Matherios wrote: »

My stats could be better more weapon,more crit,more stamina and health.

lolwut? You have 2k more HP, 45%more crit, 100 more regen, and 2k less stamina than I do.

Nifty2g

hayaschwarz wrote: »

magicka Templar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38s7LZr7hgA

That bar set up is really interesting, not sure why you'd use most of those skills but it made me want to post my bad quality final boss i recorded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnDUOhMfxHA

Matherios

Great job!

You get a new title for no death run? I'm surprised I haven't seen any "Flawless Conqueror" around at all... If you can get it then I'd be motivated to use a few more sigils just to get it done! Stormproof is becoming a bit common on PC ^^[/quote]
I already have it im the guy on the picture

Sharmony

Nifty2g wrote: »

hayaschwarz wrote: »

magicka Templar: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=38s7LZr7hgA

That bar set up is really interesting, not sure why you'd use most of those skills but it made me want to post my bad quality final boss i recorded

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EnDUOhMfxHA

My vid bra

Shelgon

Heindrich wrote: »

If Deltia can do it, why can't I?!

Man, people really underestimate Deltia. You make it seem like he isn't extremely good at this game, which he is.

James-Wayne

Everyone needs to relax because in a few months time we will have a new trial to play with possibly with VR ranks removed and new items matched to a higher CP level we will need to grind for and vMA will be a thing of the past till its re-imagined for updated classes... this is the cycle of a MMO!

Flynnn

I just want to chime in and say it's very, very clear now that console players don't understand the difference between binding a button on a mouse or keyboard from a macro.
To clarify, playing with a controller vs someone with a keyboard and mouse is much much easier. All the buttons are right at your finger tips. With a keyboard I've got my fingers on WASD to move around but somehow have to use those same fingers to press 1-4 , R (Ult), X (Synergy), Ctrl (Crouch), Shift (Run).. The list goes on. SO, many PC players use mice and/or keyboards that have programmable keys. They set those keys to buttons like 1-4. It's not as if just because someone uses a Logitech G502 mouse they are setting one key to do 4 things; which has been pointed out on many occasions to be anything but efficient. Now stop complaining that you're at a disadvantage, you chose to play on a console.

Whew, glad I got that out. Now to enjoy my morning coffee in peace.

wafcatb14_ESO

This is what is wrong with this Generation as a whole, if you can`t complete a part of the game, instead of trying to get better and complete it as it is designed,

they whine throw a temper tantrum, and pout until it is dumbed down so they can complete it. This has been going on for years now and is one of the reasons most games are not very good, as people used to play games and enjoyed a challenge, but not anymore
even in a free game people feel just because they are playing it they are entitled to be able to complete everything in game, and if something is too hard, they need to dumb it down so everyone can beat it.

Psst. thats why they have a normal and Vet mode for the content, do we need a even harder version with even better gear to offer a challenge after they dumb down the current vet mode so everyone can beat it ?

anitajoneb17_ESO

Alcast wrote: »

Why do ppl always think that other ppl use macros?

Because it could be true ?

Oh wait.. I forgot.... it's just a game, and people are all so nice, if some of them were using macro for convenience, of course they'd say it openly...

And of course macros are of no help at all, that's why they actually don't exist, no hardware or software supports macros, and that's why nobody uses them...


.

Catblade

Honestly why even nerf it? Just remove it from the game completely it's a horrible piece of content .

Justice31st

anitajoneb17_ESO wrote: »

Alcast wrote: »

Why do ppl always think that other ppl use macros?

Because it could be true ?

Oh wait.. I forgot.... it's just a game, and people are all so nice, if some of them were using macro for convenience, of course they'd say it openly...

And of course macros are of no help at all, that's why they actually don't exist, no hardware or software supports macros, and that's why nobody uses them...


.

^This. LOL +1

Justice31st

The problem is that ZOS feels the Maelstrom Arena is fine atm, even though it can only be farmed by the 1%. They feel that having solo only content and end game items only obtain though solo game play is good in an MMO for some reason? Why can't they just allow the master weapons to be obtained by group content as well or allow more than one players to do the vMA? Do they feel that people would then stop soloing or even playing the vMA and start grouping up again in this Massively Multiplayer Online game? I think so. To the people who are posting the videos of easily beating vMA; yes you are the 1% of elite players I am talking about. IMO, this is a bad business model to have as a MMO game company. The other 99% will only take so much frustration from a game, before moving on for good. In result, ZOS will lose more money. @ZOS_BrianWheeler @ZOS_GinaBruno @ZOS_RichLambert

AllHailFred

ZOS needs to fix all bugs in vMA, I feel like this content is rushed, incomplete, feels like PTS. Sometimes I feel like I'm still playing open beta for this game, never the less, I will be jumping to other MMO if ZOS don't recongnize the issue and fix it.

TotterTates

Justice31st wrote: »

To the people who are posting the videos of easily beating vMA; yes you are the 1% of elite players I am talking about.

You should have seen us when we were still learning it. My personal record was 436 deaths before giving up on the run.

We post videos to help those who want/need it to complete vMA, not sure why you are calling us out on this.

pronkg

Catblade wrote: »

Honestly why even nerf it? Just remove it from the game completely it's a horrible piece of content .

Are you really that jealous? LoL how sad

Nifty2g

ZOS_Finn wrote: »

Hey Folks, thought I would chime in here. I know that some people will be happy and some won't but we have no plans to adjust balance in Veteran Maelstrom Arena. Looking at the data, we are happy with the amount of progression that has been made as well as the nature of this aspirational content. I understand that this is not what some of you want to hear but, we are taking a look at some of the more frustrating parts of the Arena that do not affect balance.

Bugs of course are a top priority. We can take a look at these and address them to make sure they don't artificially inflate the challenge. You should see more on that in a future patch.

Things like Repair costs are something we are looking at to mitigate in particular. As for having to respec and Champion points being a big factor, that was the design behind this content. We want players to look at this and aspire to be able to beat it. It can be frustrating for sure, as is any content that is extremely difficult, but it is very rewarding when you make that turn and best the challenge.

One other thing that we are looking at, which is not planned nor on a schedule yet, is saving progress in Veteran Maelstrom. Its something we would really like to do but is not the easiest of things to accomplish so we are exploring how we could go about it design/back-end wise before we can determine the time it would need.

As I said before, I know this is not what some of you want to hear but I hope some of the things we are looking at can mitigate some of the frustrations you may have. Keep at it.

@ZOS_Finn My personal thoughts about all of this, what content do you exactly want Veteran Maelstrom to be, because right now I think it can only be 1 of them.

The challenge is fine and all, I liked it for when I getting my first complete it was something to work towards and progress as a player, that is really good and I like that type of content, but there is one issue; it's solo progression. Once the content is beaten and a player has their weapon which is very likely they will get it on the first run or even third run because of drop rates and the weeklies. Then there is no real reason to go back in, or they only go in for their weekly run.

For to competitive side, which I was looking forward to I started going for top scores and working on strategies for each round, I got them all and it's fine the only issue is having to work around this challenge and RNG mechanics, at first it's fine but then it just gets very annoying having to rely on an enemy not doing a combination of attacks that another enemy lines up with and will kill you instantly. This kills competition badly, as I don't think any of the damage inside VMA was thought out and you just applied a damage increase from Normal version and told us to have at it.

My point is, I think the initial challenge of VMA is over, most people who ran it got their weapons and don't exactly go back in there anymore, I know that is the case for a lot of streamers too, because it really isn't rewarding the damage is just daunting and makes you hate the content after awhile and doesn't offer anything so you only go in for weekly rewards right now in it's current state I think it is one and done content.

I think ZOS should go in there and re-correct certain damaging aspects of VMA, not nerf it as a whole that's just like applying a damage increase overall it wont be fun nor have a challenging aspect to it for competition, but I reckon if you guys took to the time to adjust certain things I can think of many that need slight damage reductions to them and then re-polished VMA I think the content would pick up again and we would see a large number of people running in there for top scores. Cause right now how the top scores work is praying you get a perfect run and everything lines up RNG wise and you get your top score. This takes a lot of time or if you're lucky not much time at all. And I believe this is the underlining issue with VMA but people just call for nerfs.

Even if bugs are fixed, it's not going to stop a nightblade on round 9 using Soul Tether or teleporting to you stunning you inside crematorial guard fire breath (which I believe those enemy nightblades should really have a skill from their kit removed). It's combinations like this which are complete RNG and cause a death. Sure you can point out to use a sigil but the point of this is competitive play. For example imagine I'm on round 9 with no deaths and a time of 48 minutes, a nightblade spawns and I'm ready to kill it instantly, for some reason it gets a Soul Tether off and stuns me getting me killed (that actually happened by the way). Where is the counterplay and competition in this that makes someone say "boy I want to go straight back in and do it again" it just doesn't happen.

That's all I have to say, and I hope you do something like this because really, this content is dying out, less and less people run it other than to complete it for the first time, I believe people have gotten it out of the way by now or have either quit. I think it's time for you guys to take some time and go in and correct it. And since it's DLC I hope you do that for every Champion Point increase, because really this is fun content and I want to like it but just can't right now it's just a very painful experience.

zerosingularity

I know this thread has long since derailed but there are a number of good concepts and ideas here.

And to be fair, I still run it. But then again I don't have the items I am looking for because poor RNG and next to no jewelry drop rates. (Make Jewelry minimum 50% chance from stages 6, 7 and 8, and no armor from 9, just jewelry/maelstrom item. Getting a well-fitted chest of glory from beating the arena is soul crushing, even if we still had ours - gotta Beat Molag Baal for that!) Once I get the items I want, I probably would only run it on alts for completion and that's it. If the gear was BoE then ALOT more players would run it daily. Especially if we could get gold BoE jewelry like vDSA weeklies. This would absolutely help the content, and breath some life into vMA.

And try making normal worth it to run for those who are not skilled enough to do vet. Perhaps give a chance to get vet 15 Maelstrom weapons from nMA, like how we got vet 13 Master items from normal DSA. This would encourage more players to run normal and improve their skill, and try completing the vet mode. Right now there is ABSOLUTELY NO INCENTIVE to run normal mode.

Maelstrom Arena is designed to be challenging content. That is the focus, not rewarding content but challenging content. THAT IS A FAILURE! Making it challenging is fine, but make it rewarding also. I wanna see more people run it because they feel rewarded by the loot, most people I know are just trying to beat it once and never plan to run it again, or have just plain given up because it is punishing and there is next to no reward to speak of. (Jury is still out on Elemental Succession, Winterborn, and Permafrost sets, but Para Bellum, Hunt Leader, and Glorious Defender need a VERY obvious buff to be worth using, even with perfect traits.)

In short, convert all the non-maelstrom weapons to BoE ASAP (Before the next DLC if possible, this could really help the failing ESO in-game economy), allow gold jewelry from the weeklies, and add v15 Maelstrom weapons to normal mode final chest. This will greatly bring life back to the arena, just like how DSA was. Of course, fix the stupid bugs please, it can get frustrating sometimes, but thanks for fixing the ones you have! It made a difference!

Tagging @Wrobel and @ZOS_RichLambert because there are some good ideas in this thread amongst the complaining. (Some of the complaining is justified btw, and for this content I think you two are the appropriate ones to tag, apologies if I am wrong.)

Also tagging @ZOS_GinaBruno to make sure the word is spread, so she can watch from her Ruby Throne as the minions work their magic.

Also, as thanks for reading, Merry Christmas!