Question to the DC stacking 2-3 full groups (if not more) in Azuras

Zheg

We raid 6 days a week, typically for ~5 hours, during our prime play time we usually have a full or close to full raid for 1-2 hours depending on the night. Usually start with 16ish, ramp up, then ramp down to late night ~8-14 and steve or I will lead (though usually steve). Sunday was an anomaly where we had a full or close to full raid all day because we wanted an emp push, told guildies days ahead to plan for it, and came through. If for whatever reason you think I can't be trusted, I'm sure there's at least one person who can verify that that you'd know wasn't BSing you.

VE joined a lagtastic campaign because red abandoned TF, and yellow never had a super strong presence to begin with and was often underpopulated. Blame should be placed on the guilds that left a pretty vibrant campaign for the lagtastic one, not the last man standing in a dead campaign who moved out of boredom (credit to khole and swp for sticking it out though). (some) Blame should be placed on other guilds for staying azuras when TF had healthy fights and no lag for months.

For the record, I'd equate 16 to a large group, fully capable of pushing objectives - not sure what that point was trying to address.

Again, yesterday was an exception, not a norm, and it's both silly and disingenuous to use that in some small v large group debate.

WRX

Takllin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

It's not like we are taking keeps from inferior numbers, we were consistently fighting against more than what we had.

Not sure where the 16 man came up. Agree with your sentiment.

And we've been on Azuras for quite a while now, this isn't anything new. If the group size is 24, and you've got 24 guildies on, why not run with them all? 24 is the max group size. I get 16 is the cool number because it's smaller and 16 is maximum AP gains. If groups of 24 aren't stacking on top of each other I don't see the big fuss about it.

Well it does create more lag, and essentially removes a lot competition as it is somewhat rare you have to fight truly outnumbered, and almost never fight outnumber against other organized guilds. I say run with 16 if you are about the competition as many guilds before had done, some people aren't as concerned. And the argument that "Well they had more zerg power" is just hard for me to understand. You guys can only control what you do, but don't use others as an excuse haha..

Even if GoS had 24 and then 6 pugs, that's just essentially 6 free kills.

Regardless, the discussion is about AP gains and how large groups are pulling it off more successfully now than ever. Sure, winning fights is how you make AP, but people are now winning so many fights because they have so many players and all that entails.

PainfulFAFA

WRX wrote: »

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

A full raid of what i assume was VE took the map 5 hours ago lol
Purge spamming, barriers, steelnado spam, the works

WRX

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

A full raid of what i assume was VE took the map 5 hours ago lol
Purge spamming, barriers, steelnado spam, the works

Thats group play for a large part. I dont blame people for running these skills, its the most effective.

Same could be said for running full raids, but I just feel differently in that sense as that has several other impacts. Some people agree, some people don't. In the end people will do what they find fun or offers the least resistance.

Force-Siphon

DC is a zergy mess right now and its not just one group. And for the love of God stop rerolliing blue we don't want you I don't care how elite you are. It's not even personal its about numbers. It's not fun playing blue right now, the fights are not fun and the lag is unbearable. All the constant rerolls are just making it worse, small group players or not.

Zheg

PainfulFAFA wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

A full raid of what i assume was VE took the map 5 hours ago lol
Purge spamming, barriers, steelnado spam, the works

Interesting considering our raid time doesn't start for another hour and the super majority of us have jobs/school. Seems like the 1.4 havoc effect, you see one member and all of a sudden it's an entire havoc/VE raid. I wouldn't be surprised if some were in pvp, but let's try and learn names hmm?

And wrx, no, the discussion is NOT about AP gains. There's an entire sypher thread devoted to that. This thread is pretty obviously about certain blue groups stacking raids. Jules made a single post using (frankly) a bad example trying to link AP to this thread and to link the 8v16v24 whatever debate.

You say the cool kids run 16, others say 8, and all I can do is laugh at the race to the bottom of who can run fewer and fewer while engulfed in a sea of pugs. Some (most?) of this crew ran in full raids or still sometimes do, and most sit in keeps defensively waiting to be pushed so they can chastise the single raid pushing a well defended keep and sing twinkle twinkle little star as they wait atop stairs.

You say gos running a full group plus 6 pugs is just six free kills, yet the same somehow shouldn't apply to a group of 16 fighting the detested group of 22? Weird.

People keep throwing out random numbers of what they personally think sounds cool as if it will somehow lead to agreement and productive conversation, while at the same time giving them a platform to bash anyone running more and a crutch for the times they lose to more. Here's a hint, cyrodiil is a cluster**** and you're never going to get perfect 16 v16 or 8v8 battles, so just make sure you aren't stacking obscene numbers and stop *****ing so much about how other people aren't running your magic number and stopping the 3 pugs from being on their tail. (speaking generally now, not just to wrx)

Winnamine

Copied and pasted, for emphasis.

Everyone just play how you want to play, and accept the benefits and the drawbacks of your chosen playstyle. (and for god's sake just leave everyone else alone about their chosen playstyle).
Max group size is 24. If you want to run 24, do it, it's great to be part of an active, thriving team working together towards common goals, but as a courtesy to the entire server, please god avoid stacking with other groups.
If you prefer small man, go for it, your individual contributions will matter more, and you can run a more diverse build, but you'll be less self sufficient than larger groups, and don't get salty if you get beat by someone with more people.
If you like to solo, great, I enjoy those 1vX videos. So exciting! But if you choose to play alone, no whining if you die alone.
If you like to run multiple raids, please stop.
The line has to be drawn somewhere, we could debate it forever, and it feels like we have been, but for simplicity's sake, let's just leave it where ZoS drew it.
24 is the number and the number is 24.
25 is right out!

Joy_Division

WRX wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

It's not like we are taking keeps from inferior numbers, we were consistently fighting against more than what we had.

Not sure where the 16 man came up. Agree with your sentiment.

And we've been on Azuras for quite a while now, this isn't anything new. If the group size is 24, and you've got 24 guildies on, why not run with them all? 24 is the max group size. I get 16 is the cool number because it's smaller and 16 is maximum AP gains. If groups of 24 aren't stacking on top of each other I don't see the big fuss about it.

Well it does create more lag, and essentially removes a lot competition as it is somewhat rare you have to fight truly outnumbered, and almost never fight outnumber against other organized guilds. I say run with 16 if you are about the competition as many guilds before had done, some people aren't as concerned. And the argument that "Well they had more zerg power" is just hard for me to understand. You guys can only control what you do, but don't use others as an excuse haha..

Even if GoS had 24 and then 6 pugs, that's just essentially 6 free kills.

Regardless, the discussion is about AP gains and how large groups are pulling it off more successfully now than ever. Sure, winning fights is how you make AP, but people are now winning so many fights because they have so many players and all that entails.

It's Monday night at Raid time. Our old server Trueflame has 1 bar population yellow, blue, and red. Sorry to create lag on your server, but we don't feel like PvDooring all night. Or do you want us to murder the PvEers that maintain the Axe buff server. Or should we go into an underpopulated Haderus and just draw the ire of the people there for upsetting the balance and turning that into a lag server?

As someone who probably counts as a "pug" according to your definition since I don't affiliate myself with a Red Guild and occasionally am in the same fights as groups like GOS, I appreciate your honesty for how little I count in the grand scheme of ESO. K, I'm useless and free AP. Nice. I've seen you with a horde of yellows more times than I can count - the one night where Decibal, Alacrity, and every assorted yellow guild under the sun running circles around Arrius LM is something no EP who was will ever forget - so go right on ahead and try to hold yourself up as a shining example of what the ESO community ought to aspire to be.

SkylarkAU

Winnamine wrote: »

Copied and pasted, for emphasis.
If you like to solo, great, I enjoy those 1vX videos. So exciting! But if you choose to play alone, no whining if you die alone.

BossTuggles

"If you prefer small man, go for it, your individual contributions will matter more, and you can run a more diverse build, but you'll be less self sufficient than larger groups, and don't get salty if you get beat by someone with more people."

so I can then say.

If you prefer Large Zerg style gameplay, go for it, your individual contribution will matter less, and you can run a cookie cutter build, but you'll be less self sufficient than those small mans, AND DONT GET SALTY IF YOU GET BEAT BY SOMEONE WITH MORE PEOPLE.

Pretty sure this was said page 1.

WRX

@Zheg, just saw ur post above.

The discussion I am taking part in is about AP gains, and how hiding behind players is now possibly the most effective way to do so.

While I do agree, its not the most effective sample to look at, it does bring up some valid points when you describe why you had 100k+, which really is just a few hours but that's the mark set. You say you won lots of fights and played a lot, but then seemed offended when people began to relate that to numbers. Those two things are directly connected.

As for the GoS comment, my point is those pugs won't be making any difference in the fight and will simply feed ultimate to people on the other side. 6 organized players in an organized raid is much different.

I also just said earlier that people will do what they find fun and/or offers the least resistance in this scenario. Some find more competitive fights fun, some find playing with all their guildies fun and likewise some find outnumbering people in every fight fun. I'm not relating this to Haxus or any other guild at all and I honestly 100% don't blame VE for doing whatever it is you guys find enjoyable, however it does come at some expense.

Nothing will ever be perfect in cyro, I am aware haha.. But when I think of 24 man raids saying how they were so outnumbered its just kinda meh. I understand it might happen a few times a night maybe, but overall at any given point you will have 24+ people in one area, likely killing less.

Lastly, 16 isn't just some number brought out of thin air, or what the "cool kids" did. It is a number that would make more fights more playable because you are essentially removing the "3rd raid" of 16 from the fights, and as importantly makes the fights more challenging but top guilds could still handle themselves very effectively. I see few people chastising, but when a guild constantly runs the maximum raid size, its hard to look past at times for some.

You guys draw your line at stacking ~24, TKO drew theirs at stacking ~48, others prefer to run less than the max size for various reasons. I don't think anyone should run my magic number because I think so, but I will express my logic behind certain things while at the same time knowing people won't always agree and respecting their side as well.

Winnamine

BossTuggles wrote: »

"If you prefer small man, go for it, your individual contributions will matter more, and you can run a more diverse build, but you'll be less self sufficient than larger groups, and don't get salty if you get beat by someone with more people."

so I can then say.

If you prefer Large Zerg style gameplay, go for it, your individual contribution will matter less, and you can run a cookie cutter build, but you'll be less self sufficient than those small mans, AND DONT GET SALTY IF YOU GET BEAT BY SOMEONE WITH MORE PEOPLE.

Pretty sure this was said page 1.

We get it Tuggles, you think all large group players are talentless zergers.
Get a new schtick already and stop insulting everyone who doesn't play the same way you do.

frozywozy

Takllin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

It's not like we are taking keeps from inferior numbers, we were consistently fighting against more than what we had.

Not sure where the 16 man came up. Agree with your sentiment.

And we've been on Azuras for quite a while now, this isn't anything new. If the group size is 24, and you've got 24 guildies on, why not run with them all? 24 is the max group size. I get 16 is the cool number because it's smaller and 16 is maximum AP gains. If groups of 24 aren't stacking on top of each other I don't see the big fuss about it.

I would rather see you taking keeps against inferior numbers rather than running around farming pugs. At least it would properly reflect that there is no competition whatsoever with such lagastic ballgroups running around facing 12-14men groups.

BossTuggles

Winnamine wrote: »

BossTuggles wrote: »

"If you prefer small man, go for it, your individual contributions will matter more, and you can run a more diverse build, but you'll be less self sufficient than larger groups, and don't get salty if you get beat by someone with more people."

so I can then say.

If you prefer Large Zerg style gameplay, go for it, your individual contribution will matter less, and you can run a cookie cutter build, but you'll be less self sufficient than those small mans, AND DONT GET SALTY IF YOU GET BEAT BY SOMEONE WITH MORE PEOPLE.

Pretty sure this was said page 1.

We get it Tuggles, you think all large group players are talentless zergers.
Get a new schtick already and stop insulting everyone who doesn't play the same way you do.

I said the same thing you quoted.... So should you get a new schtick?

Zheg

WRX wrote: »

@Zheg, just saw ur post above.

The discussion I am taking part in is about AP gains, and how hiding behind players is now possibly the most effective way to do so.

While I do agree, its not the most effective sample to look at, it does bring up some valid points when you describe why you had 100k+, which really is just a few hours but that's the mark set. You say you won lots of fights and played a lot, but then seemed offended when people began to relate that to numbers. Those two things are directly connected.

As for the GoS comment, my point is those pugs won't be making any difference in the fight and will simply feed ultimate to people on the other side. 6 organized players in an organized raid is much different.

I also just said earlier that people will do what they find fun and/or offers the least resistance in this scenario. Some find more competitive fights fun, some find playing with all their guildies fun and likewise some find outnumbering people in every fight fun. I'm not relating this to Haxus or any other guild at all and I honestly 100% don't blame VE for doing whatever it is you guys find enjoyable, however it does come at some expense.

Nothing will ever be perfect in cyro, I am aware haha.. But when I think of 24 man raids saying how they were so outnumbered its just kinda meh. I understand it might happen a few times a night maybe, but overall at any given point you will have 24+ people in one area, likely killing less.

Lastly, 16 isn't just some number brought out of thin air, or what the "cool kids" did. It is a number that would make more fights more playable because you are essentially removing the "3rd raid" of 16 from the fights, and as importantly makes the fights more challenging but top guilds could still handle themselves very effectively. I see few people chastising, but when a guild constantly runs the maximum raid size, its hard to look past at times for some.

You should know (well) that people have zerg-tinted goggles anytime they see opposing faction members on the field. Most can't count/estimate for ***. We'll sometimes push a keep with less than a full raid, then get whispers (from long-time, good pvpers no less) with absurd number estimates of how many we had, how badly we zerged, and yet our kill counters (or death recaps...) and functional eyes know how many red or yellow were actually in the keep. When we get on, we push. We RARELY if ever get to defend, and we typically enjoy pushing hard objectives. While not true for everyone, one of my favorite things to do is get inside Arrius (or somewhere similar), let it be repaired so no other blue can get in, let it unburst so reds can rez, and see how long we can stay alive against (obviously) overwhelming numbers. But, if we end up taking a keep like that, even with no other blue present, and at least a full raid or more of red/yellow, we end up outnumbering them because of zerg-tinted goggles.

We don't harp on being outnumbered because we usually pull through regardless. When we do bring it up, it's usually more of a 'holy ****', look how many there were. And lastly, I know, because I'm there, but we tend to push the 'oh-***' objectives that get big responses from red/yellow, so yes, I'd say we do fight outnumbered far more than people care to admit. Not going to say much more on this, getting off topic.

WRX

Joy_Division wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

It's not like we are taking keeps from inferior numbers, we were consistently fighting against more than what we had.

Not sure where the 16 man came up. Agree with your sentiment.

And we've been on Azuras for quite a while now, this isn't anything new. If the group size is 24, and you've got 24 guildies on, why not run with them all? 24 is the max group size. I get 16 is the cool number because it's smaller and 16 is maximum AP gains. If groups of 24 aren't stacking on top of each other I don't see the big fuss about it.

Well it does create more lag, and essentially removes a lot competition as it is somewhat rare you have to fight truly outnumbered, and almost never fight outnumber against other organized guilds. I say run with 16 if you are about the competition as many guilds before had done, some people aren't as concerned. And the argument that "Well they had more zerg power" is just hard for me to understand. You guys can only control what you do, but don't use others as an excuse haha..

Even if GoS had 24 and then 6 pugs, that's just essentially 6 free kills.

Regardless, the discussion is about AP gains and how large groups are pulling it off more successfully now than ever. Sure, winning fights is how you make AP, but people are now winning so many fights because they have so many players and all that entails.

It's Monday night at Raid time. Our old server Trueflame has 1 bar population yellow, blue, and red. Sorry to create lag on your server, but we don't feel like PvDooring all night. Or do you want us to murder the PvEers that maintain the Axe buff server. Or should we go into an underpopulated Haderus and just draw the ire of the people there for upsetting the balance and turning that into a lag server?

As someone who probably counts as a "pug" according to your definition since I don't affiliate myself with a Red Guild and occasionally am in the same fights as groups like GOS, I appreciate your honesty for how little I count in the grand scheme of ESO. K, I'm useless and free AP. Nice. I've seen you with a horde of yellows more times than I can count - the one night where Decibal, Alacrity, and every assorted yellow guild under the sun running circles around Arrius LM is something no EP who was will ever forget - so go right on ahead and try to hold yourself up as a shining example of what the ESO community ought to aspire to be.

el, Decibel.

And it was likely our two groups combined farming, or just a Deci group. And was still likely not full at all, and were farming actual guilds with pugs. And no I don't consider you a pug as you are an active player with an organized guild. Those aren't the players I am referring to.

And no, I don't blame VE for playing on an active server at all, anyone would do the same. Does not change the fact that another group will end up causing more of the same issues.

@Winnamine Why are we stopping at multiple raids? The game was designed for 24 in one group, but its mass PvP? I have 40 friends that I want to play with.

caeliusstarbreaker

None of this would've happened if we were only allowed to light and heavy attack each other.

WRX

Zheg wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

@Zheg, just saw ur post above.

The discussion I am taking part in is about AP gains, and how hiding behind players is now possibly the most effective way to do so.

While I do agree, its not the most effective sample to look at, it does bring up some valid points when you describe why you had 100k+, which really is just a few hours but that's the mark set. You say you won lots of fights and played a lot, but then seemed offended when people began to relate that to numbers. Those two things are directly connected.

As for the GoS comment, my point is those pugs won't be making any difference in the fight and will simply feed ultimate to people on the other side. 6 organized players in an organized raid is much different.

I also just said earlier that people will do what they find fun and/or offers the least resistance in this scenario. Some find more competitive fights fun, some find playing with all their guildies fun and likewise some find outnumbering people in every fight fun. I'm not relating this to Haxus or any other guild at all and I honestly 100% don't blame VE for doing whatever it is you guys find enjoyable, however it does come at some expense.

Nothing will ever be perfect in cyro, I am aware haha.. But when I think of 24 man raids saying how they were so outnumbered its just kinda meh. I understand it might happen a few times a night maybe, but overall at any given point you will have 24+ people in one area, likely killing less.

Lastly, 16 isn't just some number brought out of thin air, or what the "cool kids" did. It is a number that would make more fights more playable because you are essentially removing the "3rd raid" of 16 from the fights, and as importantly makes the fights more challenging but top guilds could still handle themselves very effectively. I see few people chastising, but when a guild constantly runs the maximum raid size, its hard to look past at times for some.

You should know (well) that people have zerg-tinted goggles anytime they see opposing faction members on the field. Most can't count/estimate for ***. We'll sometimes push a keep with less than a full raid, then get whispers (from long-time, good pvpers no less) with absurd number estimates of how many we had, how badly we zerged, and yet our kill counters (or death recaps...) and functional eyes know how many red or yellow were actually in the keep. When we get on, we push. We RARELY if ever get to defend, and we typically enjoy pushing hard objectives. While not true for everyone, one of my favorite things to do is get inside Arrius (or somewhere similar), let it be repaired so no other blue can get in, let it unburst so reds can rez, and see how long we can stay alive against (obviously) overwhelming numbers. But, if we end up taking a keep like that, even with no other blue present, and at least a full raid or more of red/yellow, we end up outnumbering them because of zerg-tinted goggles.

We don't harp on being outnumbered because we usually pull through regardless. When we do bring it up, it's usually more of a 'holy ****', look how many there were. And lastly, I know, because I'm there, but we tend to push the 'oh-***' objectives that get big responses from red/yellow, so yes, I'd say we do fight outnumbered far more than people care to admit. Not going to say much more on this, getting off topic.

Haha I can't agree with you more about most that stuff. Definitely getting way off topic.

Most of you guys seem like super chill people, we just have some different views which is good.

See you out there man.

Jules

Zheg,
The AP earning dispaity IS relevant in this thread. It is directly correlative to the large DC numbers as well as multiple raids present in one place. And I say this for one reason only. Earning AP is the monetization of winning.

It is easy to "win" when your opponents cannot use their skills. It is easy to win when your opponents are disorganized and compromised of very little guild resistance. It is easy to win when aoe caps prevent you from taking full damage, when purge renders siege useless and barriers cover everyone and their mother. This is not directed at VE, at CN, at anyone. It is an observation at the state of the game. I don't understand how you can think larger AP gains on blue has NO connection to the larger guild presence on blue. Or how it is anecdotal and irrelevant in this thread.

Takllin

Nvm, waste of time.

Yolokin_Swagonborn

Hilarious that EP and AD are finally learning what it feels like to be zerged down by 3 times your number every single day.

This has been the exclusive experience of DC this past year. Now the tables have turned. Sucks doesn't it?

Xsorus

/facepalm

Arguing back and forth about how we should bloody just run 24 man groups..

Winnamine

WRX wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

It's not like we are taking keeps from inferior numbers, we were consistently fighting against more than what we had.

Not sure where the 16 man came up. Agree with your sentiment.

And we've been on Azuras for quite a while now, this isn't anything new. If the group size is 24, and you've got 24 guildies on, why not run with them all? 24 is the max group size. I get 16 is the cool number because it's smaller and 16 is maximum AP gains. If groups of 24 aren't stacking on top of each other I don't see the big fuss about it.

Well it does create more lag, and essentially removes a lot competition as it is somewhat rare you have to fight truly outnumbered, and almost never fight outnumber against other organized guilds. I say run with 16 if you are about the competition as many guilds before had done, some people aren't as concerned. And the argument that "Well they had more zerg power" is just hard for me to understand. You guys can only control what you do, but don't use others as an excuse haha..

Even if GoS had 24 and then 6 pugs, that's just essentially 6 free kills.

Regardless, the discussion is about AP gains and how large groups are pulling it off more successfully now than ever. Sure, winning fights is how you make AP, but people are now winning so many fights because they have so many players and all that entails.

It's Monday night at Raid time. Our old server Trueflame has 1 bar population yellow, blue, and red. Sorry to create lag on your server, but we don't feel like PvDooring all night. Or do you want us to murder the PvEers that maintain the Axe buff server. Or should we go into an underpopulated Haderus and just draw the ire of the people there for upsetting the balance and turning that into a lag server?

As someone who probably counts as a "pug" according to your definition since I don't affiliate myself with a Red Guild and occasionally am in the same fights as groups like GOS, I appreciate your honesty for how little I count in the grand scheme of ESO. K, I'm useless and free AP. Nice. I've seen you with a horde of yellows more times than I can count - the one night where Decibal, Alacrity, and every assorted yellow guild under the sun running circles around Arrius LM is something no EP who was will ever forget - so go right on ahead and try to hold yourself up as a shining example of what the ESO community ought to aspire to be.

el, Decibel.

And it was likely our two groups combined farming, or just a Deci group. And was still likely not full at all, and were farming actual guilds with pugs. And no I don't consider you a pug as you are an active player with an organized guild. Those aren't the players I am referring to.

And no, I don't blame VE for playing on an active server at all, anyone would do the same. Does not change the fact that another group will end up causing more of the same issues.

@Winnamine Why are we stopping at multiple raids? The game was designed for 24 in one group, but its mass PvP? I have 40 friends that I want to play with.

Like you have 40 friends.


(I joke! I kid! )

WRX

Winnamine wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

It's not like we are taking keeps from inferior numbers, we were consistently fighting against more than what we had.

Not sure where the 16 man came up. Agree with your sentiment.

And we've been on Azuras for quite a while now, this isn't anything new. If the group size is 24, and you've got 24 guildies on, why not run with them all? 24 is the max group size. I get 16 is the cool number because it's smaller and 16 is maximum AP gains. If groups of 24 aren't stacking on top of each other I don't see the big fuss about it.

Well it does create more lag, and essentially removes a lot competition as it is somewhat rare you have to fight truly outnumbered, and almost never fight outnumber against other organized guilds. I say run with 16 if you are about the competition as many guilds before had done, some people aren't as concerned. And the argument that "Well they had more zerg power" is just hard for me to understand. You guys can only control what you do, but don't use others as an excuse haha..

Even if GoS had 24 and then 6 pugs, that's just essentially 6 free kills.

Regardless, the discussion is about AP gains and how large groups are pulling it off more successfully now than ever. Sure, winning fights is how you make AP, but people are now winning so many fights because they have so many players and all that entails.

It's Monday night at Raid time. Our old server Trueflame has 1 bar population yellow, blue, and red. Sorry to create lag on your server, but we don't feel like PvDooring all night. Or do you want us to murder the PvEers that maintain the Axe buff server. Or should we go into an underpopulated Haderus and just draw the ire of the people there for upsetting the balance and turning that into a lag server?

As someone who probably counts as a "pug" according to your definition since I don't affiliate myself with a Red Guild and occasionally am in the same fights as groups like GOS, I appreciate your honesty for how little I count in the grand scheme of ESO. K, I'm useless and free AP. Nice. I've seen you with a horde of yellows more times than I can count - the one night where Decibal, Alacrity, and every assorted yellow guild under the sun running circles around Arrius LM is something no EP who was will ever forget - so go right on ahead and try to hold yourself up as a shining example of what the ESO community ought to aspire to be.

el, Decibel.

And it was likely our two groups combined farming, or just a Deci group. And was still likely not full at all, and were farming actual guilds with pugs. And no I don't consider you a pug as you are an active player with an organized guild. Those aren't the players I am referring to.

And no, I don't blame VE for playing on an active server at all, anyone would do the same. Does not change the fact that another group will end up causing more of the same issues.

@Winnamine Why are we stopping at multiple raids? The game was designed for 24 in one group, but its mass PvP? I have 40 friends that I want to play with.

Like you have 40 friends.


(I joke! I kid! )

Well its at least down to 39 now -_-

R.I.P

MountainHound

I am pretty sure CN was one of the first guilds to be back on AS after the IC died down.

I just tagged 49 AD in ASH going for blue de-emp!

Tripwyr

WRX wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

It's not like we are taking keeps from inferior numbers, we were consistently fighting against more than what we had.

Not sure where the 16 man came up. Agree with your sentiment.

And we've been on Azuras for quite a while now, this isn't anything new. If the group size is 24, and you've got 24 guildies on, why not run with them all? 24 is the max group size. I get 16 is the cool number because it's smaller and 16 is maximum AP gains. If groups of 24 aren't stacking on top of each other I don't see the big fuss about it.

Well it does create more lag, and essentially removes a lot competition as it is somewhat rare you have to fight truly outnumbered, and almost never fight outnumber against other organized guilds. I say run with 16 if you are about the competition as many guilds before had done, some people aren't as concerned. And the argument that "Well they had more zerg power" is just hard for me to understand. You guys can only control what you do, but don't use others as an excuse haha..

Even if GoS had 24 and then 6 pugs, that's just essentially 6 free kills.

Regardless, the discussion is about AP gains and how large groups are pulling it off more successfully now than ever. Sure, winning fights is how you make AP, but people are now winning so many fights because they have so many players and all that entails.

It's Monday night at Raid time. Our old server Trueflame has 1 bar population yellow, blue, and red. Sorry to create lag on your server, but we don't feel like PvDooring all night. Or do you want us to murder the PvEers that maintain the Axe buff server. Or should we go into an underpopulated Haderus and just draw the ire of the people there for upsetting the balance and turning that into a lag server?

As someone who probably counts as a "pug" according to your definition since I don't affiliate myself with a Red Guild and occasionally am in the same fights as groups like GOS, I appreciate your honesty for how little I count in the grand scheme of ESO. K, I'm useless and free AP. Nice. I've seen you with a horde of yellows more times than I can count - the one night where Decibal, Alacrity, and every assorted yellow guild under the sun running circles around Arrius LM is something no EP who was will ever forget - so go right on ahead and try to hold yourself up as a shining example of what the ESO community ought to aspire to be.

el, Decibel.

And it was likely our two groups combined farming, or just a Deci group. And was still likely not full at all, and were farming actual guilds with pugs. And no I don't consider you a pug as you are an active player with an organized guild. Those aren't the players I am referring to.

And no, I don't blame VE for playing on an active server at all, anyone would do the same. Does not change the fact that another group will end up causing more of the same issues.

@Winnamine Why are we stopping at multiple raids? The game was designed for 24 in one group, but its mass PvP? I have 40 friends that I want to play with.

Like you have 40 friends.


(I joke! I kid! )

Well its at least down to 39 now -_-

R.I.P

As long as we're still friends, Muffin.

WRX

Tripwyr wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Winnamine wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Joy_Division wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

Takllin wrote: »

WRX wrote: »

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

It's not like we are taking keeps from inferior numbers, we were consistently fighting against more than what we had.

Not sure where the 16 man came up. Agree with your sentiment.

And we've been on Azuras for quite a while now, this isn't anything new. If the group size is 24, and you've got 24 guildies on, why not run with them all? 24 is the max group size. I get 16 is the cool number because it's smaller and 16 is maximum AP gains. If groups of 24 aren't stacking on top of each other I don't see the big fuss about it.

Well it does create more lag, and essentially removes a lot competition as it is somewhat rare you have to fight truly outnumbered, and almost never fight outnumber against other organized guilds. I say run with 16 if you are about the competition as many guilds before had done, some people aren't as concerned. And the argument that "Well they had more zerg power" is just hard for me to understand. You guys can only control what you do, but don't use others as an excuse haha..

Even if GoS had 24 and then 6 pugs, that's just essentially 6 free kills.

Regardless, the discussion is about AP gains and how large groups are pulling it off more successfully now than ever. Sure, winning fights is how you make AP, but people are now winning so many fights because they have so many players and all that entails.

It's Monday night at Raid time. Our old server Trueflame has 1 bar population yellow, blue, and red. Sorry to create lag on your server, but we don't feel like PvDooring all night. Or do you want us to murder the PvEers that maintain the Axe buff server. Or should we go into an underpopulated Haderus and just draw the ire of the people there for upsetting the balance and turning that into a lag server?

As someone who probably counts as a "pug" according to your definition since I don't affiliate myself with a Red Guild and occasionally am in the same fights as groups like GOS, I appreciate your honesty for how little I count in the grand scheme of ESO. K, I'm useless and free AP. Nice. I've seen you with a horde of yellows more times than I can count - the one night where Decibal, Alacrity, and every assorted yellow guild under the sun running circles around Arrius LM is something no EP who was will ever forget - so go right on ahead and try to hold yourself up as a shining example of what the ESO community ought to aspire to be.

el, Decibel.

And it was likely our two groups combined farming, or just a Deci group. And was still likely not full at all, and were farming actual guilds with pugs. And no I don't consider you a pug as you are an active player with an organized guild. Those aren't the players I am referring to.

And no, I don't blame VE for playing on an active server at all, anyone would do the same. Does not change the fact that another group will end up causing more of the same issues.

@Winnamine Why are we stopping at multiple raids? The game was designed for 24 in one group, but its mass PvP? I have 40 friends that I want to play with.

Like you have 40 friends.


(I joke! I kid! )

Well its at least down to 39 now -_-

R.I.P

As long as we're still friends, Muffin.

38 and counting..

hahah

ataggs

MountainHound wrote: »

I am pretty sure CN was one of the first guilds to be back on AS after the IC died down.

I just tagged 49 AD in ASH going for blue de-emp!

I don't think I've ever seen yellow so focused. I haven't been counting but it seems like more than a full raid at each engagement. Maybe we can get emp back soon, that buff is nice.

PainfulFAFA

dw

MountainHound wrote: »

I am pretty sure CN was one of the first guilds to be back on AS after the IC died down.

I just tagged 49 AD in ASH going for blue de-emp!

Thats because AD zone decided to give DC a taste of their own medicine.
Buts its cool, once everyone leaves, the map will go blue so you have nothing to worry about

Cogo

Yolokin_Swagonborn wrote: »

Hilarious that EP and AD are finally learning what it feels like to be zerged down by 3 times your number every single day.

This has been the exclusive experience of DC this past year. Now the tables have turned. Sucks doesn't it?

Speak for yourself.
I am always on Azura and WANT as many enemies as possible to try to take the keep I am defending. So what if they are more? I have to improve to beat them. Larger number is never an excuse when I fail. I die = My fault.

I love "zergs". My best AP comes from them.
Just once....ONCE, I would like to see these forums with anything else then "waaaah". How about sharing a good war story? Or be impressed by something your alliance, or hell, your enemies, did?

There is no better rush then wiping out a huge numbers of enemies, when you are outnumbered!

Azura [EU] Sunday night around 3am GMT
...BRK was attacked by 2 groups of yellows AND a full Blue raid that very nicely waited for the Yellow army to enter the inner Keep before rushing in and try to claim the keep for Blues.

I had 12 Pact in my group at BRK.....and 45 mins later, 9K deff tick.

"How it feels to get zerged"?

Feels DAMN good. Sometimes I get run over. Sometimes I stand over a field of dead enemies, who blames me for all sorts of things.

Hate tells is a perfect ending on a good day in the battlefield.

--Oghur