Question to the DC stacking 2-3 full groups (if not more) in Azuras

frozywozy

Psilent wrote: »

frozywozy wrote: »

Psilent wrote: »

Haha there was a lot of DC today. Felt like GoS killed droves of them at Arrius.

frozywozy wrote: »

JDar wrote: »

Wait I missed the part where there was something wrong with running a full raid. Not only is there nothing really wrong with that, Crown doesn't do that very often. What we are talking about here is multiple, independent raids and maybe one or two guilds with two raids who are all saying "hey let's go hit Roebeck now" at the same time. It seems like this is happening and nobody is thinking "hey I wonder what they are doing over in the other guild. If they are going to Roebeck too then surely there is no need for us to be there, we should go to Chalman instead."

That last step is the one that is missing; nobody is "going to Chalman."

There is probably some kind of game theory issue at play here, like the Prisoner's Dilemma where you have to assume the other guy is going to screw you over, so you do it too to get the best result. (I think that's more or less the problem, I'm not a game theory expert). Nobody is playing smart here like you should play that kind of game. They're all just saying "hey let's all go hit the bananas."

If they were smart they would say well surely some other group has decided to hit the obvious target; so we don't need to take our full raid there too.

I never believed I would see that in a sentence. DC not focusing on Chalman? Blasphemy!

For the past 7days, all the Wizard zerg has been doing was farming disorganized EP while holding Chalman, while running their train around Arrius mine, or farming inside the tower, or inside Sej. They literally spend 90% of their time doing the exact same thing, farming players worse than them and abusing the latency spikes and the low response that everybody is getting trying to cc break that leads to your death in most scenarios.

Yesterday was even worse, another DC raid joined up to compete with the Wizard zerg for emperorship after Azura reseted, and even though AD was pushing them hard (capping Ash, Aleswell, Warden and Glademist), said DC guilds having a grudge on each other kept farming disorganized EP players to get as much AP as possible to prouve who's the best and who deserve emperorship. All this happening while affecting server performances.

AD almost got emperorship TWICE because of their stupid game.

At this point I understand Crown's point but I don't think he's aware of how much worse it is for EP to have to deal with Wizard zerg 4 times more than they do, and that with only two organized guilds who usually run less than 14 players.

But like some people said in this thread, if those huge farming groups would not lag the server that much, they would melt. But this is not happening yet, so the best advice we can give is to hit DC deep in enemy territory to force them to spread out as much as possible until DC leads finally get along between each other and coordinate themselves to hit different targets, as I have been saying forever.



#RemoveAOECap
#BringBackDynUltiGen
#LowerPopulationCap
#BringBackFCs
#EvenAPGains
#ResSickness

Frozn, VE and CN put their differences aside and are working together. Yesterday was the start of a very long 30 days for us EP.

After dying the 15th time to VE decided to hop on my Sorc and head to Haderus for some IC fun.

Nice work yesterday VE and CN, good way to start the new campaign cycle for DC. Congrats AoE on Emperor, you deserve it. Just wish you got back in 1.5..

I have been talking with a leader of one of the DC guild yesterday for 15mins yesterday and trust me, from what he has told me, they still have a lot of work to do until they get along. Pretty much everything I've posted is a reflection of our discussion. Said DC guilds literally won't care for objectives as long as they are not on top of the leaderboard way ahead of the other to prouve that they are the best and to try to force the other guild to leave the campaign.. *Sigh*

@Takllin - enligthen me then!

Sorry Frozn, I was corrected and I take back what I said.

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

The AP gain for EP yesterday afternoon was brutal. Glad to know I wasn't the only one to look at the leaderboards and think this.

The worst part is that AD has great large guilds who would love to have competitive fights with large DC guilds aswell. The only problem they face, as Crown pointed out, is that everytime they fight each other, it is not only said 2 guilds present but a huge amount of players that make the guild vs guild fight not as enjoyable as it would be if people would not stack multiple guilds in the same faction on the same front.

As I've said, the solutions are easily obtainable if we reduce the number of campaigns and the population cap to force people to spread on two campaigns, and then and only then, start monitoring the amount of people queuing everyday and add more campaign when needed (a.k.a when people slowly start coming back from playing other recently released games). Not the other way around like it is the fact right now, with way too many campaigns, usually empty, which spread out people too much and encourage large guilds to stack on one single campaign to be competitive, while the server obviously cannot support that many calculations going on at once when 40+ players are engaging in multiple fights and spamming aoe damaging and healing abilities all at once on different locations on the map.

Again, close Haderus and Axe, keep Azura Star and Trueflame, reduce population cap by another 20%, then start monitoring the population peaks at primetime and add another campaign when needed.

Psilent

!

Draje-Runco

I always forget the proper etiquette. Do you play with your pinky finger in or out?

_Chaos

Draje-Runco wrote: »

I always forget the proper etiquette. Do you play with your pinky finger in or out?

Mouse hand pinky out. Always pinky out.

Zheg

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

Jules, you're trying to use (poor) anecdotal evidence for the small v large group debate in this case, but most of those 40 blue were VE members that had been playing literally all day long to crown an emp. I got a whisp that we needed healers in group before I even finished breakfast and didn't leave cyrodiil until like 10:30pm. It was a marathon session, many kept up the AP buff (something as you know very well lands you in hot water normally if you try to do it during our normal raid), and while there were red and yellow that played hard, we pushe all friggin day.

We did some farming throughout, but a ton of that AP was made pushing and defending objectives. You and your crew I'm sure would have made far higher AP totals had you played for as long yesterday as our crew did.

In short, that anecdotal evidence is proof that we pvp an unhealthy amount sometimes, not what you were trying to argue.

DisgracefulMind

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

Jules, you're trying to use (poor) anecdotal evidence for the small v large group debate in this case, but most of those 40 blue were VE members that had been playing literally all day long to crown an emp. I got a whisp that we needed healers in group before I even finished breakfast and didn't leave cyrodiil until like 10:30pm. It was a marathon session, many kept up the AP buff (something as you know very well lands you in hot water normally if you try to do it during our normal raid), and while there were red and yellow that played hard, we pushe all friggin day.

We did some farming throughout, but a ton of that AP was made pushing and defending objectives. You and your crew I'm sure would have made far higher AP totals had you played for as long yesterday as our crew did.

In short, that anecdotal evidence is proof that we pvp an unhealthy amount sometimes, not what you were trying to argue.

I will have to say that it was definitely a rush with the boards for a lot of players yesterday, and PvP felt a lot more different and invigorating last night finally crowning an Emperor who 1. deserved it and 2. is actually a good player. I didn't see the typical stack on stack action that's been happening when CN is around (they were too busy attempting to farm scrolls while abandoning their alliance in a hissy fit), and everything legitimately just felt like a faction Emp push. Besides lag, I felt like the map was lit up everywhere, extremely exciting, and, just overall, a fun night. Was nice to see spread out action like that.

Dkill

GRxKnight wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

btw GRXkknight i saw you in your back a few time today, what happen mate i thought you were elite.

I was playing my DK...something I don't do very often and thus am rusty with it...only cause I wanted to try out a new build...again, rust...feel free to 1v1 me on my osrso i can put you in your place

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

God this thread is a joke. Manny videos of edited game play is not proof of anything. The minute anything is edited it no longer becomes proof. Crown you were rolling more than 16 to 20 tonight. They may have not been in your said group but they were running with you none the less. You have a tight run group and I respect that, but to sit there and point fingers is not helpful. Your group spams aoes just like any other group and you contribute to the problem just like any other group.

Difference is we're not stacking on top of other groups doing this...that's what Crown is complaining about...if it were one group then fine there's nothing wrong with that...but the fact that DC stacks multiple raids on top of each other is ridiculous and speaks volumes of the skill level of their players if they NEED to do that in order to win. I miss the days when "get better" was the proper response to losing, not "get more numbers"

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

btw GRXkknight i saw you in your back a few time today, what happen mate i thought you were elite.

I was playing my DK...something I don't do very often and thus am rusty with it...only cause I wanted to try out a new build...again, rust...feel free to 1v1 me on my sorc or NB so i can put you in your place...your steel tornado spamming skill is welcomed.

Joy_Division wrote: »

These threads really have to stop. Especially when made by people who can be accused of living in a glass house. Crown, your are going to tell me you had 12 people in your group. You probably did. But when I was at Ash there were upwards of 40-50 yellows there. OK, I get it, they aren't in your group. Maybe they want to leech AP off you. Maybe they are just sheep who have zero intuitive and follow you are because you get things done for your faction. Maybe they showed up after your group took Ash because that's where the action was. Or maybe they just like to look at your character's ass. Doesn't change the fact that there were 40-50 yellows the one time I went to Ash last night.

So you just keep going ahead and keep making these threads and posting screenshots with 12 people in your group. Because we all know the "Crown Zerg" would never engage in any such behavior they are accusing a certain blue group..

When Crown leads (and it's only with Victorem) there's only one group...that's it. We despise running more than that (hell perfect world we run no more than 16) but we have to fill groups around 5 PM EST because the DC train is out in force for whatever reason. I really do miss fighting EP because I know it's pretty much lag free and if we wipe, it's a matter of skill or impatience or a bad call vs being outnumbered. I would love to fight EP more often but right now, we can't unless we want to lose everything below Roebeck.

I like when you calling me out like that, it makes me horny. Please stay off your back or i will be force to do push ups on you. i don't entertain duel on this lagy rubber banding game is worthless so don't beg me again.

Manoekin

Dkill wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

btw GRXkknight i saw you in your back a few time today, what happen mate i thought you were elite.

I was playing my DK...something I don't do very often and thus am rusty with it...only cause I wanted to try out a new build...again, rust...feel free to 1v1 me on my osrso i can put you in your place

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

God this thread is a joke. Manny videos of edited game play is not proof of anything. The minute anything is edited it no longer becomes proof. Crown you were rolling more than 16 to 20 tonight. They may have not been in your said group but they were running with you none the less. You have a tight run group and I respect that, but to sit there and point fingers is not helpful. Your group spams aoes just like any other group and you contribute to the problem just like any other group.

Difference is we're not stacking on top of other groups doing this...that's what Crown is complaining about...if it were one group then fine there's nothing wrong with that...but the fact that DC stacks multiple raids on top of each other is ridiculous and speaks volumes of the skill level of their players if they NEED to do that in order to win. I miss the days when "get better" was the proper response to losing, not "get more numbers"

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

btw GRXkknight i saw you in your back a few time today, what happen mate i thought you were elite.

I was playing my DK...something I don't do very often and thus am rusty with it...only cause I wanted to try out a new build...again, rust...feel free to 1v1 me on my sorc or NB so i can put you in your place...your steel tornado spamming skill is welcomed.

Joy_Division wrote: »

These threads really have to stop. Especially when made by people who can be accused of living in a glass house. Crown, your are going to tell me you had 12 people in your group. You probably did. But when I was at Ash there were upwards of 40-50 yellows there. OK, I get it, they aren't in your group. Maybe they want to leech AP off you. Maybe they are just sheep who have zero intuitive and follow you are because you get things done for your faction. Maybe they showed up after your group took Ash because that's where the action was. Or maybe they just like to look at your character's ass. Doesn't change the fact that there were 40-50 yellows the one time I went to Ash last night.

So you just keep going ahead and keep making these threads and posting screenshots with 12 people in your group. Because we all know the "Crown Zerg" would never engage in any such behavior they are accusing a certain blue group..

When Crown leads (and it's only with Victorem) there's only one group...that's it. We despise running more than that (hell perfect world we run no more than 16) but we have to fill groups around 5 PM EST because the DC train is out in force for whatever reason. I really do miss fighting EP because I know it's pretty much lag free and if we wipe, it's a matter of skill or impatience or a bad call vs being outnumbered. I would love to fight EP more often but right now, we can't unless we want to lose everything below Roebeck.

I like when you calling me out like that, it makes me horny. Please stay off your back or i will be force to do push ups on you. i don't entertain duel on this lagy rubber banding game is worthless so don't beg me again.

You can go to a campaign that isn't laggy.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

Jules, you're trying to use (poor) anecdotal evidence for the small v large group debate in this case, but most of those 40 blue were VE members that had been playing literally all day long to crown an emp. I got a whisp that we needed healers in group before I even finished breakfast and didn't leave cyrodiil until like 10:30pm. It was a marathon session, many kept up the AP buff (something as you know very well lands you in hot water normally if you try to do it during our normal raid), and while there were red and yellow that played hard, we pushe all friggin day.

We did some farming throughout, but a ton of that AP was made pushing and defending objectives. You and your crew I'm sure would have made far higher AP totals had you played for as long yesterday as our crew did.

In short, that anecdotal evidence is proof that we pvp an unhealthy amount sometimes, not what you were trying to argue.

Besides lag, I felt like the map was lit up everywhere, extremely exciting, and, just overall, a fun night. Was nice to see spread out action like that.

Lag made it unplayable for much of last night. Only after prime time hours did I feel anything resembling a fight with no lag and by that time half my group had quit out of frustration. I guess it's fun and exciting when your faction is the one moving multiple raids everywhere and being impacted far less by the lag than the other groups not running as many players.

GRxKnight

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

@Dkill and @Hektik_V

Are you 2 dillusional? Tko has NOT ran over 2 raids in a long time, and if a 2nd group does get started its like 2 or 3 ppl.

But yet u clearly state you guys only running 11 man groups when in fact it's been proven wrong endless times that your guild has had 2 raids going when Tko has had 2 going as well. So enough bashing on Tko already. Holy hell.

Reason why TKO doesn't run two raids anymore is cause they physically can't.

Dkill wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

btw GRXkknight i saw you in your back a few time today, what happen mate i thought you were elite.

I was playing my DK...something I don't do very often and thus am rusty with it...only cause I wanted to try out a new build...again, rust...feel free to 1v1 me on my osrso i can put you in your place

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

God this thread is a joke. Manny videos of edited game play is not proof of anything. The minute anything is edited it no longer becomes proof. Crown you were rolling more than 16 to 20 tonight. They may have not been in your said group but they were running with you none the less. You have a tight run group and I respect that, but to sit there and point fingers is not helpful. Your group spams aoes just like any other group and you contribute to the problem just like any other group.

Difference is we're not stacking on top of other groups doing this...that's what Crown is complaining about...if it were one group then fine there's nothing wrong with that...but the fact that DC stacks multiple raids on top of each other is ridiculous and speaks volumes of the skill level of their players if they NEED to do that in order to win. I miss the days when "get better" was the proper response to losing, not "get more numbers"

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

btw GRXkknight i saw you in your back a few time today, what happen mate i thought you were elite.

I was playing my DK...something I don't do very often and thus am rusty with it...only cause I wanted to try out a new build...again, rust...feel free to 1v1 me on my sorc or NB so i can put you in your place...your steel tornado spamming skill is welcomed.

Joy_Division wrote: »

These threads really have to stop. Especially when made by people who can be accused of living in a glass house. Crown, your are going to tell me you had 12 people in your group. You probably did. But when I was at Ash there were upwards of 40-50 yellows there. OK, I get it, they aren't in your group. Maybe they want to leech AP off you. Maybe they are just sheep who have zero intuitive and follow you are because you get things done for your faction. Maybe they showed up after your group took Ash because that's where the action was. Or maybe they just like to look at your character's ass. Doesn't change the fact that there were 40-50 yellows the one time I went to Ash last night.

So you just keep going ahead and keep making these threads and posting screenshots with 12 people in your group. Because we all know the "Crown Zerg" would never engage in any such behavior they are accusing a certain blue group..

When Crown leads (and it's only with Victorem) there's only one group...that's it. We despise running more than that (hell perfect world we run no more than 16) but we have to fill groups around 5 PM EST because the DC train is out in force for whatever reason. I really do miss fighting EP because I know it's pretty much lag free and if we wipe, it's a matter of skill or impatience or a bad call vs being outnumbered. I would love to fight EP more often but right now, we can't unless we want to lose everything below Roebeck.

I like when you calling me out like that, it makes me horny. Please stay off your back or i will be force to do push ups on you. i don't entertain duel on this lagy rubber banding game is worthless so don't beg me again.

Wuss

Dkill

GRxKnight wrote: »

PeaNutShotz wrote: »

@Dkill and @Hektik_V

Are you 2 dillusional? Tko has NOT ran over 2 raids in a long time, and if a 2nd group does get started its like 2 or 3 ppl.

But yet u clearly state you guys only running 11 man groups when in fact it's been proven wrong endless times that your guild has had 2 raids going when Tko has had 2 going as well. So enough bashing on Tko already. Holy hell.

Reason why TKO doesn't run two raids anymore is cause they physically can't.

Dkill wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

btw GRXkknight i saw you in your back a few time today, what happen mate i thought you were elite.

I was playing my DK...something I don't do very often and thus am rusty with it...only cause I wanted to try out a new build...again, rust...feel free to 1v1 me on my osrso i can put you in your place

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

God this thread is a joke. Manny videos of edited game play is not proof of anything. The minute anything is edited it no longer becomes proof. Crown you were rolling more than 16 to 20 tonight. They may have not been in your said group but they were running with you none the less. You have a tight run group and I respect that, but to sit there and point fingers is not helpful. Your group spams aoes just like any other group and you contribute to the problem just like any other group.

Difference is we're not stacking on top of other groups doing this...that's what Crown is complaining about...if it were one group then fine there's nothing wrong with that...but the fact that DC stacks multiple raids on top of each other is ridiculous and speaks volumes of the skill level of their players if they NEED to do that in order to win. I miss the days when "get better" was the proper response to losing, not "get more numbers"

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

btw GRXkknight i saw you in your back a few time today, what happen mate i thought you were elite.

I was playing my DK...something I don't do very often and thus am rusty with it...only cause I wanted to try out a new build...again, rust...feel free to 1v1 me on my sorc or NB so i can put you in your place...your steel tornado spamming skill is welcomed.

Joy_Division wrote: »

These threads really have to stop. Especially when made by people who can be accused of living in a glass house. Crown, your are going to tell me you had 12 people in your group. You probably did. But when I was at Ash there were upwards of 40-50 yellows there. OK, I get it, they aren't in your group. Maybe they want to leech AP off you. Maybe they are just sheep who have zero intuitive and follow you are because you get things done for your faction. Maybe they showed up after your group took Ash because that's where the action was. Or maybe they just like to look at your character's ass. Doesn't change the fact that there were 40-50 yellows the one time I went to Ash last night.

So you just keep going ahead and keep making these threads and posting screenshots with 12 people in your group. Because we all know the "Crown Zerg" would never engage in any such behavior they are accusing a certain blue group..

When Crown leads (and it's only with Victorem) there's only one group...that's it. We despise running more than that (hell perfect world we run no more than 16) but we have to fill groups around 5 PM EST because the DC train is out in force for whatever reason. I really do miss fighting EP because I know it's pretty much lag free and if we wipe, it's a matter of skill or impatience or a bad call vs being outnumbered. I would love to fight EP more often but right now, we can't unless we want to lose everything below Roebeck.

I like when you calling me out like that, it makes me horny. Please stay off your back or i will be force to do push ups on you. i don't entertain duel on this lagy rubber banding game is worthless so don't beg me again.

Wuss

lol

Jules

It

Warraxx wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

In mathematics, certain kinds of mistaken proof are often exhibited, and sometimes collected, as illustrations of a concept of mathematical fallacy often called syphermath. There is a distinction between a simple mistake and a mathematical fallacy in a proof: a mistake in a proof leads to an invalid proof just in the same way, but in the best-known examples of mathematical fallacies, there is some concealment in the presentation of the proof. For example, the reason validity fails may be a division by zero that is hidden by algebraic notation. There is a striking quality of the mathematical fallacy: as typically presented, it leads not only to an absurd result, but does so in a crafty or clever way.[1] Therefore, these fallacies, for pedagogic reasons, usually take the form of spurious proofs of obvious contradictions. Although the proofs are flawed, the errors, usually by design, are comparatively subtle, or designed to show that certain steps are conditional, and should not be applied in the cases that are the exceptions to the rules.

It is truly amazing that in all that superfluous language, you found a way to say nothing at all.

Zheg

To the topic at hand, joy's posts have rung truest to my own feelings on the subject. Blue and yellow have guilds that are notorious for this behavior, but the red pugs and smaller groups will stack to obscene numbers sometimes. That's the current situation, but as joy has pointed out red and yellow have done this in cycles in the past. Using those gripes to justify some childish 'payback' is just that - childish, but a quick peek in any zone chat will demonstrate you will never rid yourself of those players.

What probably makes me the saltiest about this is not that I've tried (even before the stupid blue v blue drama) to chastise this blue guild's stacking decisions and had little success, but that multiple invitations were extended to red and yellow guilds to fight on trueflame where lag was minimal to nonexistent and good fights could be had against VE, kholes, and lom - and red and yellow chose the lag. You all chose to play on the same campaign as the same blue guild you're so frustrated with, and continue to do so. If someone is peeing in the pool every day and you keep going swimming in it rather than go to the pool down the block, you can blame the kid with poor bladder control but eventually you should be blaming yourself for returning to the pool day after day. At this point, blaming the blue guild won't do any good because they aren't going to change, so I blame the very same red and yellow for choosing to remain on azura and validate the blue's behavior. Most of the top red blue and yellow guilds talk to eachother, so switching to another campaign was certainly viable. The blue guild makes excuses for their behavior when the reality is, they play that way because they like to and choose to, what are the excuses for not having gone to trueflame a month or two ago again?

Jules

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

Jules, you're trying to use (poor) anecdotal evidence for the small v large group debate in this case, but most of those 40 blue were VE members that had been playing literally all day long to crown an emp. I got a whisp that we needed healers in group before I even finished breakfast and didn't leave cyrodiil until like 10:30pm. It was a marathon session, many kept up the AP buff (something as you know very well lands you in hot water normally if you try to do it during our normal raid), and while there were red and yellow that played hard, we pushe all friggin day.

We did some farming throughout, but a ton of that AP was made pushing and defending objectives. You and your crew I'm sure would have made far higher AP totals had you played for as long yesterday as our crew did.

In short, that anecdotal evidence is proof that we pvp an unhealthy amount sometimes, not what you were trying to argue.

I played from 11am on Sunday till the wee hours of the morning on Monday. Exhausting and so much work. But lots of fun. We were pushing to block that emperorship in the exact same way as you were trying to crown. We played for just as long- if not longer. So that's absolutely not the reason.

PainfulFAFA

Looks like DC is the FOTM.

Manoekin

Zheg wrote: »

To the topic at hand, joy's posts have rung truest to my own feelings on the subject. Blue and yellow have guilds that are notorious for this behavior, but the red pugs and smaller groups will stack to obscene numbers sometimes. That's the current situation, but as joy has pointed out red and yellow have done this in cycles in the past. Using those gripes to justify some childish 'payback' is just that - childish, but a quick peek in any zone chat will demonstrate you will never rid yourself of those players.

What probably makes me the saltiest about this is not that I've tried (even before the stupid blue v blue drama) to chastise this blue guild's stacking decisions and had little success, but that multiple invitations were extended to red and yellow guilds to fight on trueflame where lag was minimal to nonexistent and good fights could be had against VE, kholes, and lom - and red and yellow chose the lag. You all chose to play on the same campaign as the same blue guild you're so frustrated with, and continue to do so. If someone is peeing in the pool every day and you keep going swimming in it rather than go to the pool down the block, you can blame the kid with poor bladder control but eventually you should be blaming yourself for returning to the pool day after day. At this point, blaming the blue guild won't do any good because they aren't going to change, so I blame the very same red and yellow for choosing to remain on azura and validate the blue's behavior. Most of the top red blue and yellow guilds talk to eachother, so switching to another campaign was certainly viable. The blue guild makes excuses for their behavior when the reality is, they play that way because they like to and choose to, what are the excuses for not having gone to trueflame a month or two ago again?

I've gone to TF a couple times and gave up on actually getting a fight. Only time we got a fight our group member was emp on Azura and keeps were being taken so we went back. I'll be on TF friday night but if nothing is there I can't be asked to just wait around.

Zheg

Jules wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

Jules, you're trying to use (poor) anecdotal evidence for the small v large group debate in this case, but most of those 40 blue were VE members that had been playing literally all day long to crown an emp. I got a whisp that we needed healers in group before I even finished breakfast and didn't leave cyrodiil until like 10:30pm. It was a marathon session, many kept up the AP buff (something as you know very well lands you in hot water normally if you try to do it during our normal raid), and while there were red and yellow that played hard, we pushe all friggin day.

We did some farming throughout, but a ton of that AP was made pushing and defending objectives. You and your crew I'm sure would have made far higher AP totals had you played for as long yesterday as our crew did.

In short, that anecdotal evidence is proof that we pvp an unhealthy amount sometimes, not what you were trying to argue.

I played from 11am on Sunday till 530am on Monday. Exhausting and so much work. But lots of fun. We were pushing to block that emperorship in the exact same way as you were trying to crown. We played for just as long- if not longer. So that's absolutely not the reason.

Haven't looked at the EP leaderboards, but is assume your crew made up the EP. My point was that while you may have played for 18.5 hours, it's probably a safe assumption that not many red and yellow did.

I played for about 12 hours yesterday. Using your numbers I would have needed to make 8.3k AP per hour to hit 100k AP, which equates to about 9 solo ganks in that hour (not even including the extra AP from ticks, heals, kill quests, AP buffs). So no, I still don't buy the argument you were trying to make. A solo player making fewer than 9 good solo ganks per hour could have hit your leaderboard mark.

Jules

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

Jules, you're trying to use (poor) anecdotal evidence for the small v large group debate in this case, but most of those 40 blue were VE members that had been playing literally all day long to crown an emp. I got a whisp that we needed healers in group before I even finished breakfast and didn't leave cyrodiil until like 10:30pm. It was a marathon session, many kept up the AP buff (something as you know very well lands you in hot water normally if you try to do it during our normal raid), and while there were red and yellow that played hard, we pushe all friggin day.

We did some farming throughout, but a ton of that AP was made pushing and defending objectives. You and your crew I'm sure would have made far higher AP totals had you played for as long yesterday as our crew did.

In short, that anecdotal evidence is proof that we pvp an unhealthy amount sometimes, not what you were trying to argue.

I played from 11am on Sunday till 530am on Monday. Exhausting and so much work. But lots of fun. We were pushing to block that emperorship in the exact same way as you were trying to crown. We played for just as long- if not longer. So that's absolutely not the reason.

Haven't looked at the EP leaderboards, but is assume your crew made up the EP. My point was that while you may have played for 18.5 hours, it's probably a safe assumption that not many red and yellow did.

I played for about 12 hours yesterday. Using your numbers I would have needed to make 8.3k AP per hour to hit 100k AP, which equates to about 9 solo ganks in that hour (not even including the extra AP from ticks, heals, kill quests, AP buffs). So no, I still don't buy the argument you were trying to make. A solo player making fewer than 9 good solo ganks per hour could have hit your leaderboard mark.

There were lots of breaks and lots of defending in that time frame of course. The point remains that the AP gains of 24 (and 24+) groups are dwarfing the numbers of those in 10,16, whatever mans. And all of those players are on DC. When I looked this morning, the top 10 overall players were all VE except for Daniel @#9. You can't really think that's a coincidence?

Zheg

Manoekin wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

To the topic at hand, joy's posts have rung truest to my own feelings on the subject. Blue and yellow have guilds that are notorious for this behavior, but the red pugs and smaller groups will stack to obscene numbers sometimes. That's the current situation, but as joy has pointed out red and yellow have done this in cycles in the past. Using those gripes to justify some childish 'payback' is just that - childish, but a quick peek in any zone chat will demonstrate you will never rid yourself of those players.

What probably makes me the saltiest about this is not that I've tried (even before the stupid blue v blue drama) to chastise this blue guild's stacking decisions and had little success, but that multiple invitations were extended to red and yellow guilds to fight on trueflame where lag was minimal to nonexistent and good fights could be had against VE, kholes, and lom - and red and yellow chose the lag. You all chose to play on the same campaign as the same blue guild you're so frustrated with, and continue to do so. If someone is peeing in the pool every day and you keep going swimming in it rather than go to the pool down the block, you can blame the kid with poor bladder control but eventually you should be blaming yourself for returning to the pool day after day. At this point, blaming the blue guild won't do any good because they aren't going to change, so I blame the very same red and yellow for choosing to remain on azura and validate the blue's behavior. Most of the top red blue and yellow guilds talk to eachother, so switching to another campaign was certainly viable. The blue guild makes excuses for their behavior when the reality is, they play that way because they like to and choose to, what are the excuses for not having gone to trueflame a month or two ago again?

I've gone to TF a couple times and gave up on actually getting a fight. Only time we got a fight our group member was emp on Azura and keeps were being taken so we went back. I'll be on TF friday night but if nothing is there I can't be asked to just wait around.

Well, the blue there for a solid 2 months were VE, kholes, and lom. Pretty sure lom's pvp force is done/broken up, VE is now homed azuras because red and yellow left TF, and I think kholes is the only blue guild left there. My (salty) point was that there were awesome fights to be had there for about 2 months, and rather than attract red and yellow, red guilds left for azuras. It's not to say a renewed effort couldn't be made to inject life into TF, but it will be a much harder effort now than it would have been weeks ago. It's not like the blue behavior and complaints are a new thing, the impetus to leave should have been there the whole time.

Won't speak for bulb, but I'd guess if rage and vic went TF, and some combo of GoS, haxus, hijinx went TF, the lure of good fights would be too much to say no to.

On a side note, I've heard rumors of a blue guild going TF, so if that ends up being true and not just rumors, the problem may mostly fix itself. If red and yellow follow them there (again), well...

Manoekin

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

Jules, you're trying to use (poor) anecdotal evidence for the small v large group debate in this case, but most of those 40 blue were VE members that had been playing literally all day long to crown an emp. I got a whisp that we needed healers in group before I even finished breakfast and didn't leave cyrodiil until like 10:30pm. It was a marathon session, many kept up the AP buff (something as you know very well lands you in hot water normally if you try to do it during our normal raid), and while there were red and yellow that played hard, we pushe all friggin day.

We did some farming throughout, but a ton of that AP was made pushing and defending objectives. You and your crew I'm sure would have made far higher AP totals had you played for as long yesterday as our crew did.

In short, that anecdotal evidence is proof that we pvp an unhealthy amount sometimes, not what you were trying to argue.

I played from 11am on Sunday till 530am on Monday. Exhausting and so much work. But lots of fun. We were pushing to block that emperorship in the exact same way as you were trying to crown. We played for just as long- if not longer. So that's absolutely not the reason.

Haven't looked at the EP leaderboards, but is assume your crew made up the EP. My point was that while you may have played for 18.5 hours, it's probably a safe assumption that not many red and yellow did.

I played for about 12 hours yesterday. Using your numbers I would have needed to make 8.3k AP per hour to hit 100k AP, which equates to about 9 solo ganks in that hour (not even including the extra AP from ticks, heals, kill quests, AP buffs). So no, I still don't buy the argument you were trying to make. A solo player making fewer than 9 good solo ganks per hour could have hit your leaderboard mark.

Not that it would be super hard to do, but the timeframe she put for her numbers only leaves the campaign leaderboards being open for 7-8 hours. To doubt that there's a far greater number of DC rolling around everywhere than other factions is to be ignorant. Last campaign the amount of DC homed on Azura was almost equal that of EP and AD combined. I imagine it will be worse this time around as more DC flood the campaign and some EP and AD leave out of frustration. How many times are we going to post combat stats showing 50-90 people at a fight only to be told it was because we tagged guards or some ***. If you're there with multiple raids barring extreme circumstances it's a problem.

Manoekin

Zheg wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

To the topic at hand, joy's posts have rung truest to my own feelings on the subject. Blue and yellow have guilds that are notorious for this behavior, but the red pugs and smaller groups will stack to obscene numbers sometimes. That's the current situation, but as joy has pointed out red and yellow have done this in cycles in the past. Using those gripes to justify some childish 'payback' is just that - childish, but a quick peek in any zone chat will demonstrate you will never rid yourself of those players.

What probably makes me the saltiest about this is not that I've tried (even before the stupid blue v blue drama) to chastise this blue guild's stacking decisions and had little success, but that multiple invitations were extended to red and yellow guilds to fight on trueflame where lag was minimal to nonexistent and good fights could be had against VE, kholes, and lom - and red and yellow chose the lag. You all chose to play on the same campaign as the same blue guild you're so frustrated with, and continue to do so. If someone is peeing in the pool every day and you keep going swimming in it rather than go to the pool down the block, you can blame the kid with poor bladder control but eventually you should be blaming yourself for returning to the pool day after day. At this point, blaming the blue guild won't do any good because they aren't going to change, so I blame the very same red and yellow for choosing to remain on azura and validate the blue's behavior. Most of the top red blue and yellow guilds talk to eachother, so switching to another campaign was certainly viable. The blue guild makes excuses for their behavior when the reality is, they play that way because they like to and choose to, what are the excuses for not having gone to trueflame a month or two ago again?

I've gone to TF a couple times and gave up on actually getting a fight. Only time we got a fight our group member was emp on Azura and keeps were being taken so we went back. I'll be on TF friday night but if nothing is there I can't be asked to just wait around.

Well, the blue there for a solid 2 months were VE, kholes, and lom. Pretty sure lom's pvp force is done/broken up, VE is now homed azuras because red and yellow left TF, and I think kholes is the only blue guild left there. My (salty) point was that there were awesome fights to be had there for about 2 months, and rather than attract red and yellow, red guilds left for azuras. It's not to say a renewed effort couldn't be made to inject life into TF, but it will be a much harder effort now than it would have been weeks ago. It's not like the blue behavior and complaints are a new thing, the impetus to leave should have been there the whole time.

Won't speak for bulb, but I'd guess if rage and vic went TF, and some combo of GoS, haxus, hijinx went TF, the lure of good fights would be too much to say no to.

On a side note, I've heard rumors of a blue guild going TF, so if that ends up being true and not just rumors, the problem may mostly fix itself. If red and yellow follow them there (again), well...

There were AD on TF from what I remember. The campaign wasn't always dead. Why did those guilds leave?

Takllin

Manoekin wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

To the topic at hand, joy's posts have rung truest to my own feelings on the subject. Blue and yellow have guilds that are notorious for this behavior, but the red pugs and smaller groups will stack to obscene numbers sometimes. That's the current situation, but as joy has pointed out red and yellow have done this in cycles in the past. Using those gripes to justify some childish 'payback' is just that - childish, but a quick peek in any zone chat will demonstrate you will never rid yourself of those players.

What probably makes me the saltiest about this is not that I've tried (even before the stupid blue v blue drama) to chastise this blue guild's stacking decisions and had little success, but that multiple invitations were extended to red and yellow guilds to fight on trueflame where lag was minimal to nonexistent and good fights could be had against VE, kholes, and lom - and red and yellow chose the lag. You all chose to play on the same campaign as the same blue guild you're so frustrated with, and continue to do so. If someone is peeing in the pool every day and you keep going swimming in it rather than go to the pool down the block, you can blame the kid with poor bladder control but eventually you should be blaming yourself for returning to the pool day after day. At this point, blaming the blue guild won't do any good because they aren't going to change, so I blame the very same red and yellow for choosing to remain on azura and validate the blue's behavior. Most of the top red blue and yellow guilds talk to eachother, so switching to another campaign was certainly viable. The blue guild makes excuses for their behavior when the reality is, they play that way because they like to and choose to, what are the excuses for not having gone to trueflame a month or two ago again?

I've gone to TF a couple times and gave up on actually getting a fight. Only time we got a fight our group member was emp on Azura and keeps were being taken so we went back. I'll be on TF friday night but if nothing is there I can't be asked to just wait around.

Well, the blue there for a solid 2 months were VE, kholes, and lom. Pretty sure lom's pvp force is done/broken up, VE is now homed azuras because red and yellow left TF, and I think kholes is the only blue guild left there. My (salty) point was that there were awesome fights to be had there for about 2 months, and rather than attract red and yellow, red guilds left for azuras. It's not to say a renewed effort couldn't be made to inject life into TF, but it will be a much harder effort now than it would have been weeks ago. It's not like the blue behavior and complaints are a new thing, the impetus to leave should have been there the whole time.

Won't speak for bulb, but I'd guess if rage and vic went TF, and some combo of GoS, haxus, hijinx went TF, the lure of good fights would be too much to say no to.

On a side note, I've heard rumors of a blue guild going TF, so if that ends up being true and not just rumors, the problem may mostly fix itself. If red and yellow follow them there (again), well...

There were AD on TF from what I remember. The campaign wasn't always dead. Why did those guilds leave?

Because there is no action on TF. You take one or two keeps and they all disappear.

Jules

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

Jules, you're trying to use (poor) anecdotal evidence for the small v large group debate in this case, but most of those 40 blue were VE members that had been playing literally all day long to crown an emp. I got a whisp that we needed healers in group before I even finished breakfast and didn't leave cyrodiil until like 10:30pm. It was a marathon session, many kept up the AP buff (something as you know very well lands you in hot water normally if you try to do it during our normal raid), and while there were red and yellow that played hard, we pushe all friggin day.

We did some farming throughout, but a ton of that AP was made pushing and defending objectives. You and your crew I'm sure would have made far higher AP totals had you played for as long yesterday as our crew did.

In short, that anecdotal evidence is proof that we pvp an unhealthy amount sometimes, not what you were trying to argue.

I will have to say that it was definitely a rush with the boards for a lot of players yesterday, and PvP felt a lot more different and invigorating last night finally crowning an Emperor who 1. deserved it and 2. is actually a good player. I didn't see the typical stack on stack action that's been happening when CN is around (they were too busy attempting to farm scrolls while abandoning their alliance in a hissy fit), and everything legitimately just felt like a faction Emp push. Besides lag, I felt like the map was lit up everywhere, extremely exciting, and, just overall, a fun night. Was nice to see spread out action like that.

I agree with this and felt like VE and CN were deliberately separate entities which was really nice. While DC still has the most big guild raids of any of the factions, it did feel like they were in different locations which made for lots of jumping around. And a competitive night of PVP other than the lag. I really liked that it was a constant struggle back and forth. I'm not mad at all that bbq got emp. Highly preferred over the alternative. He's a good player, and an all around well-liked person. But opposing factions are gonna try to block an emperorship - that's what makes the game fun, that's the point. Emperorship is way more fun if you have people going for dethrone ect than it is if you're just sitting on a buff campaign, cause you get to actually play and fight with all that power.

DisgracefulMind

Manoekin wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

GRxKnight wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

btw GRXkknight i saw you in your back a few time today, what happen mate i thought you were elite.

I was playing my DK...something I don't do very often and thus am rusty with it...only cause I wanted to try out a new build...again, rust...feel free to 1v1 me on my osrso i can put you in your place

rich.magab14a_ESO wrote: »

God this thread is a joke. Manny videos of edited game play is not proof of anything. The minute anything is edited it no longer becomes proof. Crown you were rolling more than 16 to 20 tonight. They may have not been in your said group but they were running with you none the less. You have a tight run group and I respect that, but to sit there and point fingers is not helpful. Your group spams aoes just like any other group and you contribute to the problem just like any other group.

Difference is we're not stacking on top of other groups doing this...that's what Crown is complaining about...if it were one group then fine there's nothing wrong with that...but the fact that DC stacks multiple raids on top of each other is ridiculous and speaks volumes of the skill level of their players if they NEED to do that in order to win. I miss the days when "get better" was the proper response to losing, not "get more numbers"

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

btw GRXkknight i saw you in your back a few time today, what happen mate i thought you were elite.

I was playing my DK...something I don't do very often and thus am rusty with it...only cause I wanted to try out a new build...again, rust...feel free to 1v1 me on my sorc or NB so i can put you in your place...your steel tornado spamming skill is welcomed.

Joy_Division wrote: »

These threads really have to stop. Especially when made by people who can be accused of living in a glass house. Crown, your are going to tell me you had 12 people in your group. You probably did. But when I was at Ash there were upwards of 40-50 yellows there. OK, I get it, they aren't in your group. Maybe they want to leech AP off you. Maybe they are just sheep who have zero intuitive and follow you are because you get things done for your faction. Maybe they showed up after your group took Ash because that's where the action was. Or maybe they just like to look at your character's ass. Doesn't change the fact that there were 40-50 yellows the one time I went to Ash last night.

So you just keep going ahead and keep making these threads and posting screenshots with 12 people in your group. Because we all know the "Crown Zerg" would never engage in any such behavior they are accusing a certain blue group..

When Crown leads (and it's only with Victorem) there's only one group...that's it. We despise running more than that (hell perfect world we run no more than 16) but we have to fill groups around 5 PM EST because the DC train is out in force for whatever reason. I really do miss fighting EP because I know it's pretty much lag free and if we wipe, it's a matter of skill or impatience or a bad call vs being outnumbered. I would love to fight EP more often but right now, we can't unless we want to lose everything below Roebeck.

I like when you calling me out like that, it makes me horny. Please stay off your back or i will be force to do push ups on you. i don't entertain duel on this lagy rubber banding game is worthless so don't beg me again.

You can go to a campaign that isn't laggy.

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

Jules, you're trying to use (poor) anecdotal evidence for the small v large group debate in this case, but most of those 40 blue were VE members that had been playing literally all day long to crown an emp. I got a whisp that we needed healers in group before I even finished breakfast and didn't leave cyrodiil until like 10:30pm. It was a marathon session, many kept up the AP buff (something as you know very well lands you in hot water normally if you try to do it during our normal raid), and while there were red and yellow that played hard, we pushe all friggin day.

We did some farming throughout, but a ton of that AP was made pushing and defending objectives. You and your crew I'm sure would have made far higher AP totals had you played for as long yesterday as our crew did.

In short, that anecdotal evidence is proof that we pvp an unhealthy amount sometimes, not what you were trying to argue.

Besides lag, I felt like the map was lit up everywhere, extremely exciting, and, just overall, a fun night. Was nice to see spread out action like that.

Lag made it unplayable for much of last night. Only after prime time hours did I feel anything resembling a fight with no lag and by that time half my group had quit out of frustration. I guess it's fun and exciting when your faction is the one moving multiple raids everywhere and being impacted far less by the lag than the other groups not running as many players.

idk I stayed away from keeps and just found small scale in random portions of the map, perhaps that's the difference there. Was just nice to see action spread out, was my point, really.

Zheg

Manoekin wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

Jules, you're trying to use (poor) anecdotal evidence for the small v large group debate in this case, but most of those 40 blue were VE members that had been playing literally all day long to crown an emp. I got a whisp that we needed healers in group before I even finished breakfast and didn't leave cyrodiil until like 10:30pm. It was a marathon session, many kept up the AP buff (something as you know very well lands you in hot water normally if you try to do it during our normal raid), and while there were red and yellow that played hard, we pushe all friggin day.

We did some farming throughout, but a ton of that AP was made pushing and defending objectives. You and your crew I'm sure would have made far higher AP totals had you played for as long yesterday as our crew did.

In short, that anecdotal evidence is proof that we pvp an unhealthy amount sometimes, not what you were trying to argue.

I played from 11am on Sunday till 530am on Monday. Exhausting and so much work. But lots of fun. We were pushing to block that emperorship in the exact same way as you were trying to crown. We played for just as long- if not longer. So that's absolutely not the reason.

Haven't looked at the EP leaderboards, but is assume your crew made up the EP. My point was that while you may have played for 18.5 hours, it's probably a safe assumption that not many red and yellow did.

I played for about 12 hours yesterday. Using your numbers I would have needed to make 8.3k AP per hour to hit 100k AP, which equates to about 9 solo ganks in that hour (not even including the extra AP from ticks, heals, kill quests, AP buffs). So no, I still don't buy the argument you were trying to make. A solo player making fewer than 9 good solo ganks per hour could have hit your leaderboard mark.

Not that it would be super hard to do, but the timeframe she put for her numbers only leaves the campaign leaderboards being open for 7-8 hours. To doubt that there's a far greater number of DC rolling around everywhere than other factions is to be ignorant. Last campaign the amount of DC homed on Azura was almost equal that of EP and AD combined. I imagine it will be worse this time around as more DC flood the campaign and some EP and AD leave out of frustration. How many times are we going to post combat stats showing 50-90 people at a fight only to be told it was because we tagged guards or some ***. If you're there with multiple raids barring extreme circumstances it's a problem.

Well, would need Jules to say exactly when she checked leaderboards because primetime means different windows for different people (usually things begin to die down 9:30/10pm my time). All I was trying to do was stop an example with highly skewed data (many blues playing excessive, abnormal hours) from being used in the small v large group debate that seems to permeate all threads in the pvp section. I'm certainly guilty of going off topic many times, but that argument would be better served in syphers AP thread, and the evidence used in the argument was misleading as it was completely removed from the hours those players logged and looked solely at AP totals.

As to the rest, a more appropriate measure is how many people are in the campaign during primetime per alliance - I would think. Yellow has more room to gripe last azura campaign because you spent a lot of time at 3 bars, but pop lock with queue is pop lock with queue - and that was the case for red and blue. Doesn't matter if blue had 20000 homes there if only 250 (whatever the cap is) are allowed in at once and the other alliances are also at cap. Players homed is a bad metric to use in that case.

I'd fully support lowering pop caps, I think the increase for IC is too high given how the map funnels players to emp keeps. That's a different argument though, and maybe one worth stressing to wheeler.

To your npc point, I wouldn't insult your intelligence with that argument, but would suggest maybe you're hitting invisible pve pets that don't show up in pvp. My bristlegut pig is always present outside of cyro, maybe you're hitting him with steel tornado and he's just invisible! (kidding, kidding)

Manoekin

Zheg wrote: »

Manoekin wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

Jules, you're trying to use (poor) anecdotal evidence for the small v large group debate in this case, but most of those 40 blue were VE members that had been playing literally all day long to crown an emp. I got a whisp that we needed healers in group before I even finished breakfast and didn't leave cyrodiil until like 10:30pm. It was a marathon session, many kept up the AP buff (something as you know very well lands you in hot water normally if you try to do it during our normal raid), and while there were red and yellow that played hard, we pushe all friggin day.

We did some farming throughout, but a ton of that AP was made pushing and defending objectives. You and your crew I'm sure would have made far higher AP totals had you played for as long yesterday as our crew did.

In short, that anecdotal evidence is proof that we pvp an unhealthy amount sometimes, not what you were trying to argue.

I played from 11am on Sunday till 530am on Monday. Exhausting and so much work. But lots of fun. We were pushing to block that emperorship in the exact same way as you were trying to crown. We played for just as long- if not longer. So that's absolutely not the reason.

Haven't looked at the EP leaderboards, but is assume your crew made up the EP. My point was that while you may have played for 18.5 hours, it's probably a safe assumption that not many red and yellow did.

I played for about 12 hours yesterday. Using your numbers I would have needed to make 8.3k AP per hour to hit 100k AP, which equates to about 9 solo ganks in that hour (not even including the extra AP from ticks, heals, kill quests, AP buffs). So no, I still don't buy the argument you were trying to make. A solo player making fewer than 9 good solo ganks per hour could have hit your leaderboard mark.

Not that it would be super hard to do, but the timeframe she put for her numbers only leaves the campaign leaderboards being open for 7-8 hours. To doubt that there's a far greater number of DC rolling around everywhere than other factions is to be ignorant. Last campaign the amount of DC homed on Azura was almost equal that of EP and AD combined. I imagine it will be worse this time around as more DC flood the campaign and some EP and AD leave out of frustration. How many times are we going to post combat stats showing 50-90 people at a fight only to be told it was because we tagged guards or some ***. If you're there with multiple raids barring extreme circumstances it's a problem.

Well, would need Jules to say exactly when she checked leaderboards because primetime means different windows for different people (usually things begin to die down 9:30/10pm my time). All I was trying to do was stop an example with highly skewed data (many blues playing excessive, abnormal hours) from being used in the small v large group debate that seems to permeate all threads in the pvp section. I'm certainly guilty of going off topic many times, but that argument would be better served in syphers AP thread, and the evidence used in the argument was misleading as it was completely removed from the hours those players logged and looked solely at AP totals.

As to the rest, a more appropriate measure is how many people are in the campaign during primetime per alliance - I would think. Yellow has more room to gripe last azura campaign because you spent a lot of time at 3 bars, but pop lock with queue is pop lock with queue - and that was the case for red and blue. Doesn't matter if blue had 20000 homes there if only 250 (whatever the cap is) are allowed in at once and the other alliances are also at cap. Players homed is a bad metric to use in that case.

I'd fully support lowering pop caps, I think the increase for IC is too high given how the map funnels players to emp keeps. That's a different argument though, and maybe one worth stressing to wheeler.

To your npc point, I wouldn't insult your intelligence with that argument, but would suggest maybe you're hitting invisible pve pets that don't show up in pvp. My bristlegut pig is always present outside of cyro, maybe you're hitting him with steel tornado and he's just invisible! (kidding, kidding)

Yeah. My point was more of an overall type of thing. I can tell from my days off when I decide to play early I get on and there's a red zerg going around, then it dies down for a bit until a DC zerg gets on and starts taking everything around 3pm or earlier EST and it lasts all night. Numbers being that far apart should never even be allowed.

zyk

Zheg wrote: »

Well, the blue there for a solid 2 months were VE, kholes, and lom. Pretty sure lom's pvp force is done/broken up, VE is now homed azuras because red and yellow left TF, and I think kholes is the only blue guild left there. My (salty) point was that there were awesome fights to be had there for about 2 months, and rather than attract red and yellow, red guilds left for azuras. It's not to say a renewed effort couldn't be made to inject life into TF, but it will be a much harder effort now than it would have been weeks ago. It's not like the blue behavior and complaints are a new thing, the impetus to leave should have been there the whole time.

The Trueflame campaign that began early October was awesome. I played with HK. AD had numbers, but we did not have a guild running that was consistently on par with VE or Haxus. Although, with some of the groups HK was running then, we were often able to hold our own.

I recall DC had VE, LoM and Khole running. EP had Haxus, SWP and seemingly a lot of former Nexus players. We would see GoS at times too.

AD was probably the weakest faction in this campaign, but we were able to hold our own because VE would hit EP as hard as they would hit AD. That enabled some parity. Khole was less engaged in map control. I was told this was because their focus was getting players in a position to take Emp.

Unfortunately, the campaign dynamics changed. From our POV (and the leaderboards), VE disappeared. After that, it was open season on AD. LoM has/had an apparent bias against AD. Haxus and Khole largely seemed to go into AD farming mode--though Haxus did block Khole late night emp runs for a time. So AD players found action elsewhere.

I have to say, for all the top-tier guilds who say they only want good fights, that's not what it seems like from afar. I often observe VE and Khole ignore nearby Haxus groups and vice versa. The game is much better when those who claim to be the top guilds face each other more often. Perhaps if that were true, the players less geared/skilled/experienced/whatever might be less inclined to stack in large zergs to compete.

No one wants to be farmed over and over again. And frankly, not everyone can compete with top-tier guilds. This is true of almost all competitive games. There's no shame in being less capable than a VE or Haxus. Unfortunately, ESO has no mechanisms to encourage competitive balance. In fact, the scoring encourages the best players to CONSTANTLY farm less capable groups.

BossTuggles

Been gone a few days and seems I have been quoted a few times and people have put messages on my forum wall (This is a thing?). This is what the game has devolved into who has more numbers. If you think their are tactics in this game ATM you are kidding yourself. I still stand by my initial response of "Pot meet Kettle" even with someone private messaging me and forcing me to click on my forum wall?

Numbers win. For someone to complain about this fact who is known for being a consistent "group" leader in this type of gameplay is what I am commenting on.

Zheg

Jules wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

Zheg wrote: »

Jules wrote: »

xANTIxMATTERx wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

Actually, the most delusional player on the server is your zerg leader and he has you all brainwashed into thinking that stacking raids is an acceptable strategy. If it didnt lag the server out nobody would care, but it does.

My boy anti said it best. QFT

DisgracefulMind wrote: »

Dkill wrote: »

you guys are all delusional when you can you make excuses......

No, you're delusional if you don't see it. DC is literally stacking and stacking, not sure why, but it's the worst I've seen in a long time in PvP, and, yes, I play DC and have for a very long time.

As well as Bee's perspective as a long-time DC player.


This multiple raids & stacking keeps phenomenon is clearly and blatantly visible to everyone but DC it seems.

Food for thought: today around prime time, We looked at the leaderboards and saw that of each faction, people who had accumulated over 100k AP.

EP: 4
AD: 10
DC: 40

If you don't believe me, look for yourself.
Why do you think it is that TEN TIMES the amount of DC were able to earn 100k+ than EP?

It doesn't take a genius to figure out why.
This meta empowers groups like this, makes them all but nearly untouchable under resistances, aoe caps, uncapped barriers, ect ect ect.

Jules, you're trying to use (poor) anecdotal evidence for the small v large group debate in this case, but most of those 40 blue were VE members that had been playing literally all day long to crown an emp. I got a whisp that we needed healers in group before I even finished breakfast and didn't leave cyrodiil until like 10:30pm. It was a marathon session, many kept up the AP buff (something as you know very well lands you in hot water normally if you try to do it during our normal raid), and while there were red and yellow that played hard, we pushe all friggin day.

We did some farming throughout, but a ton of that AP was made pushing and defending objectives. You and your crew I'm sure would have made far higher AP totals had you played for as long yesterday as our crew did.

In short, that anecdotal evidence is proof that we pvp an unhealthy amount sometimes, not what you were trying to argue.

I played from 11am on Sunday till 530am on Monday. Exhausting and so much work. But lots of fun. We were pushing to block that emperorship in the exact same way as you were trying to crown. We played for just as long- if not longer. So that's absolutely not the reason.

Haven't looked at the EP leaderboards, but is assume your crew made up the EP. My point was that while you may have played for 18.5 hours, it's probably a safe assumption that not many red and yellow did.

I played for about 12 hours yesterday. Using your numbers I would have needed to make 8.3k AP per hour to hit 100k AP, which equates to about 9 solo ganks in that hour (not even including the extra AP from ticks, heals, kill quests, AP buffs). So no, I still don't buy the argument you were trying to make. A solo player making fewer than 9 good solo ganks per hour could have hit your leaderboard mark.

There were lots of breaks and lots of defending in that time frame of course. The point remains that the AP gains of 24 (and 24+) groups are dwarfing the numbers of those in 10,16, whatever mans. And all of those players are on DC. When I looked this morning, the top 10 overall players were all VE except for Daniel @#9. You can't really think that's a coincidence?

Bear with me, I'm legit trying to say this delicately enough so as to avoid 'bold' statements (hopefully you get the reference, and hopefully realize I'd like to not see another pissing contest between guilds).

I think it's fair to say VE has a healthy win to loss ratio and can take on larger numbers (to a reasonable extent) and win. We lose sometimes, we potato sometimes, but I would think you treat the battlefield differently when you see us vs 20 random blues scattered about, I know we do the same for the good red and yellow guilds. A raid can push objectives by itself, a small group usually can't, and that's not because of aoe caps (though it is a factor), it's because of the design of the map objectives. Personally I feel like people capable of pushing the objectives (that's the point of cyro right?) should be rewarded more than those who can't/don't. If kholes played with 10 people for 12+ hours they'd be on leaderboards too in azura, but I don't think you'd try and use that in your small v large group argument because you'd look silly. Point being, VE had so many in the boards because we had a LONG day with a lot of wins, consistent AP buffs, and we pushed objectives. Small groups doing the first two would also have competitive AP rewards, though not as high as a raid that can go take a fully defended roebeck on it's own. I think that makes sense, you may not, which is fine, but if kholes played 12-15 hours straight and were on the boards we wouldn't be having this argument. I look at the boards from yesterday and see absurd hours and many wins, it's a shame you only see group size. It's also a shame I saw no such posts when the people you currently play with dominated the leaderboards for months on end. They got there because they logged a lot of hours and a lot of wins, yes? Or is there something more nefarious at work that I'm missing?

WRX

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

Takllin

WRX wrote: »

I think the point is you get a lot of those wins, and even to some degree the absurd hours, because its nearly always a full raid whenever VE is around.

And the idea that 16 can't push objectives is just...

Guess it just depends on your 16.

EDIT: I wasn't there at all last night, too much work etc. But I do know VE joining an already lagtastic campaign is possibly the last thing anyone needs unless 40 other active primetime DC players decide to leave. I see both points, but tend to side more with Jules and hiding behind large numbers.

It's not like we are taking keeps from inferior numbers, we were consistently fighting against more than what we had.

Not sure where the 16 man came up. Agree with your sentiment.

And we've been on Azuras for quite a while now, this isn't anything new. If the group size is 24, and you've got 24 guildies on, why not run with them all? 24 is the max group size. I get 16 is the cool number because it's smaller and 16 is maximum AP gains. If groups of 24 aren't stacking on top of each other I don't see the big fuss about it.