[Patch Notes] Champion Point cap will be set at 501

Vangy

This thread is delicious. *grabs popcorn*

Crap I forgot a drink. Oh wait nvm... More than enough sweet sweet tears to drink in some of these posts. Also if you have bought exp scrolls/pots etc to get cp I feel your pain. Also I have like 110 cp so Im all on board with these changes lol.

Powtreeman

What about the achievement you get from having 1200 champion points?

Vatana

This is not about getting an advantage, this is about being able to use your accomplishments that have cost you a lot of time and energy.

Real life example, just parallel to show our point of view: You spend 7 years on university, then 3 years in obligatory *** work as an assistant and then pass to Bar. After all this efford and time you fount a legal company and decide to hire a secretary. After 2 months she starts to cry that her salary is much lower than yours and that is just not fair and she wants the same "chance" and position as you have. What do you do? You give it to all other employees just because they are a majority?

Does it feel fair to you?

The Pareto principle (also known as the 80–20 rule, the law of the vital few, and the principle of factor sparsity) states that, for many events, roughly 80% of the effects come from 20% of the causes.

According to this poll: http://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en/discussion/202649/do-you-agree-with-the-zos-putting-a-cap-on-champion-points-per-dlc/p1 there are 28% of people above the CP cap who does not agree with it. I believe these people create 80% of ingame progression, videos, fan pages, wikis, addons, crafting, ingame commerce and PvP. I also believe that all or at least the mayority of the current emperors belong to this group.

Do you want Zenimax to nerf the emperor buff? It gives you much bigger advantage than CPs and can only be archieved by hours and hours of PvPing. Casuals can not get to emperor so nerf it ! or better - erase it from the game!

The truth is, the CP cap does not solve the problem, because it is not a reason why some people are dominating in PvP and PvE. The difference is made by their experience, they have passed it all, survived and adapted to all changes for the last 18 months. I believe these people would be dominating even if the CP numbers are reversed.
Iam saing would because they will probably leave and you´ll never have a chance to prove I am right.

After next 6+ months, if ESO survives that long, you - the 200 CP people crying for a cap- will be those new players wont be able to catch up and everything starts again, with roles changed.

Someone called me a 8 year child. I really don´t care about money lost in my subscription. I get more than 10x a monthly subscription fee for every hour of my time. The principle is what bothers me and the disrespect to players who were prepared anytime for last 18 month to invest further to the game - financially, by testing things on PTS or anything Zenimax would demand.

The only way to show our concerns is to write here or contact the support. As everyone playing for a time knows, responses from the support are ... or are not at all.

Banroc

Vatana wrote: »

This is not about getting an advantage, this is about being able to use your accomplishments that have cost you a lot of time and energy.

Real life example, just parallel to show our point of view: You spend 7 years on university, then 3 years in obligatory *** work as an assistant and then pass to Bar. After all this efford and time you fount a legal company and decide to hire a secretary. After 2 months she starts to cry that her salary is much lower than yours and that is just not fair and she wants the same "chance" and position as you have. What do you do? You give it to all other employees just because they are a majority?

Does it feel fair to you?

Someone called me a 8 year child. I really don´t care about money lost in my subscription. I get more than 10x a monthly subscription fee for every hour of my time. The principle is what bothers me and the disrespect to players who were prepared anytime for last 18 month to invest further to the game - financially, by testing things on PTS or anything Zenimax would demand.

The only way to show our concerns is to write here or contact the support. As everyone playing for a time knows, responses from the support are ... or are not at all.

Myself and my partner both have subbed since day 1 and still do, we play most nights if we can depends what we have planned we dont play during daytimes we have lives to lead we are for the cap.
ZOS is a buisness they are there to make money who should they listen to you or me we both pay them same?
The current cp system is all about advantage you get to stack them account wide because you have the time to play every day /night across your alts imo they should only apply to the characters that earned them
Us casual players that pay the same play a main and maybe the odd alt no way we will ever get to the cp numbers you have and you can say or dress it up however you want those cp points make a huge difference
Does it feel fair to you?

P.s its a game.. made to be fun for all not a select few

byrom101b16_ESO

The following solution would not ultimately punish anyone in this. It is based on having a tranched increasingly slower gain rate system for CPs as one progresses.

up to 100 CPs - 600,000xp per point
101-200 - 700,000xp per point
201-300 - 800,000xp per point
301-400 - 900,000xp per point
401-500 - 1,000,000xp per point
501-600 - 2,000,000xp per point
601+ - 3,000,000xp per point
1201+ - 4,000,000xp per point
2400+ - 5,000,000xp per point

Each person has a total number of CP xp accrued which is known, so this system can be applied restrospectively as explained below. In all cases, all CP points would be unallocated for free.

Those who are still above the CPs they would be under these new xp totals would not have their CPs taken away, but their CP total would be frozen until they reach the new xp total for their current CP, then their CP progression would proceed as normal.

Those whose CP amount would be below where they would be for their CP xp would be awarded extra CPs to bring them to the correct new total.

In regarding the CP xp earned as representative of the effort put in, and not punishing the people with higher than new xp system CP totals (merely locking their progression until they 'catch up'), no-one is unduly disadvantaged.

Comments?

Cadelay

Vatana wrote: »

Me and my husband play this game from the early access. We have been subscribing the game since then just to support the game we like and the effort of staff being spent to improve it.

We play together (20 % party exp bonus) with ESO PLUS (10% exp bonus) with Rings of mara (20% exp bonus) and with exp potions/ scrolls (50% bonus). We both have 4 VR16 characters with undaunted guild max and in Cadwell gold,2 of them with PvP rank 1 5+. My sum of /played of these 4 characters is 123 days.
Right now I have 532 CP and my husband has 650 CP. As CP cap is going to be 501 CP, there is no progression for us for several next months and we will not have access to part of our CP.

Can anyone explain me why are we going to be punished for supporting and playing this game because someone, who started playing it year and a half later cries to have disadvantage?

We were given ESO PLUS exp bonus and crowns for exp potions just to get spittled into face by a CP cap? That must be a joke!

Is like if you were punished for being in work and working too much and too well.

I was billed for my ESO PLUS membership for few next months just day before Pach notes for Orsinium went out. Now I want my money back, as I will not be able to use my progress made on my account or progress any further.

There are a lot of players above 500 CP and I believe many of them feel the same as I do and many of them are, or used to be ESO PLUS members. I do not care about messy statistics which proves nothing of the reality ingame. If you want real numbers, look at the active guilds (both pvp and pve oriented) which keeps only active members and make a statistics of them.

This is more of an argument for the cap than against it. You are the exact reason why they are putting a cap on Champion Points.

Most players do not have a consistently playing partner to be in a party with, with Rings of Mara, with ESO Plus, and with experience potions and Crown Store scrolls.

You are the outliers here with an advantage that is now going to be somewhat stifled. ESO is appealing to the majority and the usual, which are the source of their profits.

There really aren't "a lot of players above 500 CP," at least, not enough for a business like ZOS to be concerned about losing. They will likely gain more players by putting a cap on the extreme end of the spectrum, and making the game more enjoyable to casual players.

Cadelay

maxjapank wrote: »

I hear what you are saying. I was also "screwed" when they introduced the CP system because I had completed every single quest in the game. So I watched guildmates, who had previously grinded to v14, go on to finish Cadwell silver and gold earning tons of CP along the way. What was I to do? Must I roll an ALT? Must I continually wait to get a group together for pledges when the Oceanic time zone is barely active week nights? Step into Cyrodiil which is also fairly dead during that time? Why couldn't I earn CP while playing in non-vet pvp?

I just wanted to comment on this. I am a new player, coming in about two months ago. I have 85 champion points, but I play for 10 hours a day sometimes.

There are ways that I have been screwed too. I didn't come in at a time where I could have received 70 free Champion Points. I ground up from level 1 up to V16 in a fairly quick time frame, and started at 0 champion points, unlike so many others who were inducted into 70 points. That is how I was screwed.

Yes, you should have rolled an alt to get more points. That's what I would have done. As of now, I can't roll an alt because I am trying to get more Champion Points to compete with players who have hundreds. I need to keep playing the same toon. My only alt is level 3 and sitting in a horse barn at the moment.

Games screw people over. This game has also screwed people over by releasing limited edition pets and mounts that people who were not playing at the time have no chance of getting now. It happens and it sucks.

Etaniel

byrom101b16_ESO wrote: »

The following solution would not ultimately punish anyone in this. It is based on having a tranched increasingly slower gain rate system for CPs as one progresses.

up to 100 CPs - 600,000xp per point
101-200 - 700,000xp per point
201-300 - 800,000xp per point
301-400 - 900,000xp per point
401-500 - 1,000,000xp per point
501-600 - 2,000,000xp per point
601+ - 3,000,000xp per point
1201+ - 4,000,000xp per point
2400+ - 5,000,000xp per point

Each person has a total number of CP xp accrued which is known, so this system can be applied restrospectively as explained below. In all cases, all CP points would be unallocated for free.

Those who are still above the CPs they would be under these new xp totals would not have their CPs taken away, but their CP total would be frozen until they reach the new xp total for their current CP, then their CP progression would proceed as normal.

Those whose CP amount would be below where they would be for their CP xp would be awarded extra CPs to bring them to the correct new total.

In regarding the CP xp earned as representative of the effort put in, and not punishing the people with higher than new xp system CP totals (merely locking their progression until they 'catch up'), no-one is unduly disadvantaged.

Comments?

Just for the retroactive part of your proposition : you can't put a fixed number of exp earned looking at the CP total, since you don't know how much enlightenment was used to get them.

Blud

Qyrk wrote: »

But doesn't anyone with OCD is getting a reaction from 501????

What about VR 14? VR 16??

AhPook_Is_Here

I'm not sure the whole argument about having some incremental statistical progress is client retentive practice. Take GW2 as an example, all statistical character progress is done in the first few weeks after you buy the game as is your gear progression with the exception of a neck and back piece that one can grind for an extremely modest statistical advantage over other players. I can't say I believe everyone in this thread who says they will quit if the CP system is capped. It is hard to imagine that the only draw the game had to these people was grinding CP and utilizing every multiplier to do it as fast as possible.

The guild I began playing this game with was a casual, family focused guild called Gaiscioch. They started playing this game with over a thousand players, filling 3 guild slots just to hold membership and a 4th as an "activity room". Now they have maybe a dozen to a score of active players left in this game. Where did they go? Back to GW2 where they have no progression but have fun; instead of working on the brain krak treadmill that CP has become, they have RvR events nightly and many other activities in a much older game.

Another thing that confuses me is the PVP community for a long time was very vocal about CPs imbalances in Cyrodiil, and that PVE players had too many advantages over PVP players when it came to CP accumulation, yet what do you see here but many PVE players supporting a cap so content can be balanced and competition can be measured to a metric that has some meaning. You'd expect the PVP community to be very supportive of a balanced playing field as well but it seems that is not the case after many threads on the PVP forum prior to the cap announcement voicing support for a cap.

There are a lot of reasons this is good for the game but the biggest one is giving old accounts a chance to look at the game again without feeling they can never return competitively, and to also open the game to new business via referrals and when those new players arrive they aren't confronted with a grind they will be perpetually behind. It's still a grindy game for those who love to grind, there will just be a few plateaus now for people to catch up.

maxjapank

Cadelay wrote: »

Yes, you should have rolled an alt to get more points. That's what I would have done. As of now, I can't roll an alt because I am trying to get more Champion Points to compete with players who have hundreds. I need to keep playing the same toon. My only alt is level 3 and sitting in a horse barn at the moment.

My only Alts until a month or so ago was also under level 10. But why should I need to roll an ALT anyways. At the time I enjoyed my main and had no desire to play anything else. What you would of done and what I choose to do are personal choices, no? At the moment I'm sitting at about 270 pts. More than many and less than some.

I like that you said you need to keep playing the same toon in order to compete with players that have hundreds of Champion Points. In all honesty, we shouldn't feel pressured like this. And hopefully the new catch-up mechanic will let us enjoy the game a bit more at our own pace.

BalgusFlinn

I think a CP cap is great. Good job ZOS.

Vatana wrote: »

This is not about getting an advantage,

Going to stop you right here. Because thats exactly what it is.

Sharkano

There is no way the average of any real PC toons is in the 90's, and I call b.s. on anything spewing from the infernal maw of the ZOSbeast.

VincentBlanquin

Vatano, pojd raději zabojovat na cz forum))

cmorning

So what about the in game achievements? 300 Points in each category? So you are saying we have to put 300 in one Category and then respect, to put the points in another category just to get the achievements?

What a huge mistake.

You should've set the CAP at 900.

Starshadw

Teargrants wrote: »

All I have to say is that cap is way to low going on into the months after Orsinium release with an undisclosed "whenever we feel like raising the cap" point in the future. Going by the stated "about 2 big updates a year" that was bandied around on ESO Live back during the B2P transition, one would assume that the caps would be increased about every 6 months.

501 CP seems like a good number to me. I doubt very much that they simply pulled it out of the air. Rather, I would expect that they chose it based on taking a look at the numbers - overall average number of CP servers-wide, the percentage of players with more than the average CP, and so forth.

And yes, a hue and cry was inevitable - which is why, those of us who have offered suggestions for changes to the CP system kept saying they needed to do it sooner rather than later. Right now, I doubt that the percentage of affected players (ie, the ones that are going to find they have lost access to a lot of CP) is very high (I'd be shocked if it was even 10%). However, because of the horrific imbalance of the CP system, more and more people were starting the "Crackwood/Zombie/Spider Grind" to earn more CP, so the longer they took to implement a cap, the more players that would have been affected.

501 (not sure why the "1" but there's probably an actual reason behind it) gives plenty of room for future growth and expansion. Yes, a few folks are going to have to make some decisions now as to where they want to put their CP and yes, they are going to have to get used to how their characters play without them. But this was desperately needed for the overall health, balance, and enjoyment of the game.

TalonShina

Starshadw wrote: »

Teargrants wrote: »

All I have to say is that cap is way to low going on into the months after Orsinium release with an undisclosed "whenever we feel like raising the cap" point in the future. Going by the stated "about 2 big updates a year" that was bandied around on ESO Live back during the B2P transition, one would assume that the caps would be increased about every 6 months.

501 CP seems like a good number to me. I doubt very much that they simply pulled it out of the air. Rather, I would expect that they chose it based on taking a look at the numbers - overall average number of CP servers-wide, the percentage of players with more than the average CP, and so forth.

And yes, a hue and cry was inevitable - which is why, those of us who have offered suggestions for changes to the CP system kept saying they needed to do it sooner rather than later. Right now, I doubt that the percentage of affected players (ie, the ones that are going to find they have lost access to a lot of CP) is very high (I'd be shocked if it was even 10%). However, because of the horrific imbalance of the CP system, more and more people were starting the "Crackwood/Zombie/Spider Grind" to earn more CP, so the longer they took to implement a cap, the more players that would have been affected.

501 (not sure why the "1" but there's probably an actual reason behind it) gives plenty of room for future growth and expansion. Yes, a few folks are going to have to make some decisions now as to where they want to put their CP and yes, they are going to have to get used to how their characters play without them. But this was desperately needed for the overall health, balance, and enjoyment of the game.

they said because they needed a number divided by three and they felt 600 or 900 was too high

TerraHawk

If you had a vet at launch of 1.6 and you earned your one enlightened CP every day, you have about 250 CP now.
Most people do NOT have 250 CP because they have actual lives.

501 CP still allows you to crush the vast majority of people. What is your beef? You want to be able to kill players in 0.5 seconds instead of 1.0 seconds? Is that half a second so much of an inconvenience?

For many of you serious players, your automatic avoidance software and macros are much bigger impact then your CP.
Since ZOS shows no signs of attempting to find or throw out cheaters, you are all good.

Ezareth

Vangy wrote: »

This thread is delicious. *grabs popcorn*

Crap I forgot a drink. Oh wait nvm... More than enough sweet sweet tears to drink in some of these posts. Also if you have bought exp scrolls/pots etc to get cp I feel your pain. Also I'm like 12. lol lol ROFLMAO.

BalgusFlinn wrote: »

I think a CP cap is great. Good job ZOS.

Vatana wrote: »

This is not about getting an advantage,

Going to stop you right here. Because thats exactly what it is.

Except you're wrong. To the majority of us it is about being able to continuously progress our character. It was a major theme promised to us with the 1.6 patch and it's the main thing that brought me back to the game then.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jvZ5Ejx1M7w

Starting at :48 seconds....Continued Character Progression.....Play to earn champion points...and grow even stronger.

We don't care about the advantage we have over others, it's about having a path to continued growth with our characters. And that is being denied to many of us.

maxjapank

Ezareth wrote: »

And that is being denied to many of us.

Many? You keep saying that word. But the data provided by Richard says otherwise.

Ezareth

maxjapank wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

And that is being denied to many of us.

Many? You keep saying that word. But the data provided by Richard says otherwise.

I think you need to look up the meaning of many. There are hundreds if not thousands of players who will be at CP cap by the time November 2nd rolls around

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

Cadelay wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

I hear what you are saying. I was also "screwed" when they introduced the CP system because I had completed every single quest in the game. So I watched guildmates, who had previously grinded to v14, go on to finish Cadwell silver and gold earning tons of CP along the way. What was I to do? Must I roll an ALT? Must I continually wait to get a group together for pledges when the Oceanic time zone is barely active week nights? Step into Cyrodiil which is also fairly dead during that time? Why couldn't I earn CP while playing in non-vet pvp?

I just wanted to comment on this. I am a new player, coming in about two months ago. I have 85 champion points, but I play for 10 hours a day sometimes.

There are ways that I have been screwed too. I didn't come in at a time where I could have received 70 free Champion Points. I ground up from level 1 up to V16 in a fairly quick time frame, and started at 0 champion points, unlike so many others who were inducted into 70 points. That is how I was screwed.

Yes, you should have rolled an alt to get more points. That's what I would have done. As of now, I can't roll an alt because I am trying to get more Champion Points to compete with players who have hundreds. I need to keep playing the same toon. My only alt is level 3 and sitting in a horse barn at the moment.

Games screw people over. This game has also screwed people over by releasing limited edition pets and mounts that people who were not playing at the time have no chance of getting now. It happens and it sucks.

those weren't "Free" 70 points, people had grinded/quested for those on bull *** zos told us....

maxjapank wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

And that is being denied to many of us.

Many? You keep saying that word. But the data provided by Richard says otherwise.

lying and/or data manipulation, perhaps incompetence. there are ways to screw up data; there are more was to artificially manipulate data to your benefit and against your benefit.

honestly.... im am a complete lazy *** when it comes to CPs and i got 219 of em just milling around the game playing. 96 has got to be inaccurate to say the least. if you have 96 points from championship launch, you don't play so your clout is pretty minimal.

fine.... *** it nerf the *** out of champ points, then yall can get back to complaining about gear like before the champ system...

TequilaFire

There is something wrong with those numbers a lot of us started with 70CP and just playing PvP for a couple hours
generates 1 to 2 CP a couple hour session especially with enlightenment.

Unless I just stand around, hell even then I get ticks. lol

Enraged_Tiki_Torch

Ezareth wrote: »

I think you need to look up the meaning of many. There are hundreds if not thousands of players who will be at CP cap by the time November 2nd rolls around

Yeah and those players will be sitting at max efficiency on day one. More powerful than 99% of server while that percentage has to play catch up. What's the problem? There are other ways to progress your character outside of Champion Points.

However, your argument and others who argue the same is very unrealistic. No game is going to be able to progress and continue to put out updated content at the speed hardcore players progress. Some are already mad at the fact Orsinium is coming out only few months after IC. Imagine if every update came out at the speed in which hardcore players progressed to cap.

First, there isn't a Dev team that could put content out that fast and second No Dev team is going to leave 99% of their playerbase behind just to feed the insatiable hunger of the 1%. Even if they wanted to, it still takes months to create the content for a new DLC. Honestly, you would likely prefer this to having to regear and start over every month verse every couple of months.

My suggestion is enjoy your time at the top, get a head start on the next CP level when it's raised. Go for Leaderboards, whatever. Sure beats having to go farm trash half your play time just to get a level playing field with the rest of the server. I would enjoy being at 501 CP on Nov 2nd, cause grinding sucks. Wanna trade?

ahstin2001nub18_ESO

TequilaFire wrote: »

There is something wrong with those numbers a lot of us started with 70CP and just playing PvP for a couple hours
generates 1 to 2 CP a couple hour session especially with enlightenment.

Unless I just stand around, hell even then I get ticks. lol

its probably due to those of us that got the 70, IC drops, they come back.... BOOM instant bull *** data....

ADarklore

Ezareth wrote: »

I think you need to look up the meaning of many. There are hundreds if not thousands of players who will be at CP cap by the time November 2nd rolls around

Um... what world are you living in? If even after almost two years since PC launch and the currently active accounts have less than 100 CP... I think you really need to rethink that belief. It is funny how people pull info out of... ...trying to pass as reality the things that they CHOOSE to believe are true, regardless of actual fact. Making things up when we've heard real, actual, hard data from the game developers just goes to prove my point... that people believe whatever supports their own personal belief, regardless of factual evidence.

TequilaFire

I was against displaying CP to other players, but I think that might be the only way to debunk some of this.
Most of my in game friends on PC and console are over the 200 CP mark that has me scratching my head.

Starshadw

Ezareth wrote: »

We don't care about the advantage we have over others, it's about having a path to continued growth with our characters. And that is being denied to many of us.

Sorry, Ez, I'm calling shenanigans on this. Spending hours running in a circle, grinding mobs in Crackwood Cave constitutes "growth?" You don't care about the advantage lots of CP gives you over others in PvP?

I'm not buying what you're trying to sell here.

TequilaFire

A lot of us didn't grind or we sure would have a lot more CP, why are you so stuck on that?
Besides if so many people did the grind why are the averages still so low?

Tankqull

Ezareth wrote: »

maxjapank wrote: »

Ezareth wrote: »

And that is being denied to many of us.

Many? You keep saying that word. But the data provided by Richard says otherwise.

I think you need to look up the meaning of many. There are hundreds if not thousands of players who will be at CP cap by the time November 2nd rolls around

well i would have preferred a player driven cap. i personly do not care the slightest about pve and i do not believe that ZOS itention to this change is primarily aimed at pve either.

so what i would have preferred would have required alot more coding know how than this simple cap by installing a sytsem of automatic campaign creation (automatically crating a copy of it self once it is filled), now add a base campaign for every 150 spend CP(150, 300, 450 ...) a player can list for every campaign >/= to his currently spend CPs.
that way the high CP´ler can either play among themselfs (rather small numbers though) or can simply not spend a given amount of cps and list for more crowded CP values...